Tall Vessel forces Alaska aircraft to go around at Boston Intl.

[@VASAviation]

Know of some other airports which have the same problem...

[@Dani1996ITA]

LIMJ Genoa in Italy has the same problem. The airport is located in the middle of the most important port in Italy and when there are high vessel or oil tankers crossing the final they have special procedures.

[@N942UW]

PHL. There is actually a dedicated staffed position by the City of Philadelphia called River Watch which is suppose to advise the Tower/TRACON of when a ship will pass under the Rwy 35 final. They shut off arrivals to 35 - 15 mins before the ship arrives until 15 mins after the ship has gone as a safety margin.

[@roysmith5902]

KLGA has a note "SHIP MASTS IN APCH RY 31" which I don't actually understand; the approach to 22 seems like it would be more of a problem.

[@francissager3133]

@@roysmith5902 the World's Fair Marina is just to the south and east of runway 31. Riker's Island and it's causeway act as a barrier pushing vessels further away from runway 22.

[@bsmith1164]

Kai Tak in Hong Kong. We would get NOTAMS of departing ships and pass the info to aircraft departing runway 13.

[@starwarzchik112]

“Possible boat deviation, I have a number for you to call.”

[@N1611n]

Lolz!

[@dougaltolan3017]

Maritime ColRegs rule 12: Power gives way to sail.

[@sublimeade]

Copy that, port.

[@mattwilliams3456]

It would be really funny if the port pilot was actually in command of the ship at the time, for a different form of pilot deviation.

[@646klein]

555 float me over

[@thenamazing6530]

I took a cruise out of Boston several years ago, and it gave me some excellent opportunities to watch aircraft flying over the ship and landing. As a plane watcher, I had a blast! The captain later mentioned that before departure, he had to contact the FAA and let them know the height of the ship before he could sail past Logan Airport.

[@AEMoreira81]

The height can interfere with the glidescope.

[@chrissybunnyify]

This was my question, thanks for the answer. I was wondering a while ago that ships need to check in with airport in these circumstances. Amazing

[@Lyoko88]

wife and I Cruised out of Boston as well, we got delayed due to a miscommunication with the fuel barge...so we sat on the back of the ship and just watched the planes on approach while we waited...just added to the trip.

[@Dainus77]

Good to hear an Australian pilot flying for Alaskan. Living the dream mate. 👍

[@cheapercharlie]

nice catch. things i never thought of that could delay a landing aircraft.

[@Apollo580]

Pretty uncommon issue but not for Boston.

[@buildwalls2001]

Sometimes it’s a tall mast, every now and then it’s a LNG tanker. Both cause havoc!

[@Davros-vi4qg]

Not every day a plane has to give way to a ship 😮

[@dougaltolan3017]

Maritime Col Regs, rule 12: Power gives way to sail

[@matthewaurelio8406]

suprisingly there is regulation for sea planes and boats about who has the right of way lol

[@bubbaman12289]

I've given way to a tractor on a trailer broke down on the road at the end of a runway. Fbo guy said he was gonna go yell at him. I advised against it the truck driver had jean shorts on to not make contact with him wouldnt end well

[@EdOeuna]

It’s a selection in performance calculations at certain airports like Singapore and Malé where ships may be found near the departure end of the runway.

[@kopazwashere]

@@dougaltolan3017 incorrect context. Both are powered. One can manouever better than the other, and is not as fuel-constrained as the other.

[@kb1ibt-s]

And 166 feet isn’t even the tallest ship that Logan needs to worry about, the USS Constitution, which is underway today on its 225th Anniversary has a mast of 220 feet

[@Anon21486]

For those who would like more info, Boston Logan now has a water runway that runs south and parallel to runway 14/32 and is used for a sea plane that goes to New York City.

[@BillySugger1965]

Great coordination there. Aussies sound so bloody chill on RT!

[@aaronevans8701]

We really are more chill than we should be sometimes lol

[@AnotherDoug]

@@aaronevans8701 Except in dash cam videos!

[@5Breaker]

Imagine telling the passengers, sorry for the delay there was a boat blocking the runway (approach).

[@Doubledeckerdog]

Funny story. I was on the HMS Rose (now HMS Surprise) leaving Boston Harbor. The HMS Rose is a square rigged sailing ship the masts are 135' high. As we were crossing the approach end of the runway as a plane was landing. We had all our sails up. After the plane past the wake turbulence backed our upper most sail (topgallant ) and broke the yard holding the sail. Another fun airport where ships and planes are in close proximity is Peter O'Night in Tampa. Planes are actually can be crossing channel at 100' - 75'

[@hamletksquid2702]

I dipped my toe in salt water once, so I can just say you're a braver man than I am. I used to drive a truck in the southwest, and you get cropdusters buzzing you now and then. They usually wave. There's a highway between Las Cruces and Alamogordo that is entirely inside the White Sands Missile Range, so there's always a pair of fighters circling around on CAP, and they'll come down and fly low a hundred feet from the road. Occasionally, a Herc will do the same thing, kicking up dust and rocking the truck. Coming that close to vehicles has to be a lot less fun when you're not doing it on purpose.

[@redskins5926]

Same thing happened on a flight I was on into Philly about 10 years ago, the pilot initiated go around due to a tall ship in the approach. I remember it as we were already arriving late and I barely made my connecting flight.

[@rael5469]

You almost made your connecting ship. LOL

[@Jasonzw952]

that Alaska pilot’s got an Australian accent! Love hearing fellow australians on ATC

[@jacobwong2230]

How do u know?

[@asmrbuddha9033]

@@jacobwong2230 mate when you know you know.

[@I_Evo]

The winters must come as a bit of a shock to him in Alaska.😱

[@tonythreepies9272]

Can’t swing a kangaroo without hitting an Aussie at US airlines because of the E3.

[@gasaholic47]

Spot on. I have an Aussie friend, so it was easy for me to recognize that accent. Sometimes though, it’s tough to distinguish between it and a Kiwi accent.

[@MrLeviaFUN]

The vector path graphic (sorry don't know the right terminology) is great at understanding how planes are vectored in

[@VASAviation]

Radar scope.

[@xXRedTheDragonXx]

Absolute professionalism for all involved as always, thanks for the video, very informative!

[@kentd4762]

Thank you for putting these together, VASAviation.

[@DavidWsTrainVideos]

That pilot probably went home and went “Honey…you won’t believe what delayed my flight today” 😂

[@nicojones4272]

This was a really interesting one, never considered ships interfering with an approach! We have some tall ships that dock at the harbour in Toronto in summer but I think they're plenty far from CYTZ's runway.

[@EoRdE6]

I live just off the approach of 14, honestly surprised surprised this doesn't happen more I see all sorts of big boats coming through here

[@travelnewengland1027]

Im in Boston. And one time I saw an Emirates go over me twice real low. Same plane. I was like thats weird. Winds calm. Same thing boat stopped at the end of the runway

[@350smooth9]

Landed today on 22L and there was a massive Evergreen container ship in the harbor. I wonder how tall that thing was.

[@AnotherDoug]

The Ever Faith left Boston about 3 hours ago - the photos of it fully laden show it is pretty massive

[@VladyDaddy]

tree fiddy

[@N1120A]

I'm shocked they haven't found a solution to this by now. There was an LH A350 that had a serious fuel situation thanks to tall ship incursions at BOS.

[@flipakine]

realistically it probably doesn't happen often enough to make any kind of adjustments 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@N1120A]

@@flipakine it happens often enough at BOS that it has created more than one safety issue

[@phillee2814]

@@flipakine You mean the death toll isn't high enough for the FAA to fear for their positions. It is a notorious problem at BOS, so clearly does happen often enough.

[@scottycatman]

@@phillee2814 Happens enough and is dangerous enough they've come up with procedures to identify ships that are problematic and tell aircraft to go around. So they've already taken a measure by doing that. It would be concerning if BOS *wasn't* doing this. If it happened enough to be a safety/efficiency issue, the airlines would have petitioned BOS and the FAA to do something about it.

[@jackc3727]

What flight are you talking about? A single go around isn't enough to cause a fuel emergency.

[@NickHannula]

"Ship, maintain current heading at flight level zero"

[@adb012]

I've heard cases where something like this took place (I wonder why it would not work this time: Instrument conditions? Night? Ship too close and too tall?): ATC: Flight XYZ, traffic 12 o'clock, 2 miles, a ship on the approach path. Plane: We have the ship in sight, XYZ. ATC: XYZ, maintain visual separation with the ship, runway 02 left, clear to land.

[@lex1945]

Luckily no wake turbulence from that 'HEAVY' ship, LOL!

[@robertbutsch1802]

Plenty of wake turbulence… for the fish.

[@jw0stephens]

The north bridge approach to Logan, McArdle Bridge is a draw bridge, FWIW, so they have provisions for taller vessels, though that bridge is low enough to need raising for other than masted ships.

[@SeaHusker54]

You can hear the utter disappointment in the pilots voice when they made him go around 😅

[@jonathanbott87]

I'd guess that may be partly due to his short time before forced diversion.

[@kimberlywoodbury1739]

“There’s a chance they could be out of there before you get here” The slight waver in the pilot’s voice says it all. Reminds me of a flight I was on from Heathrow to JFK. The pilot came on and announced “Ladies and gentlemen, we’re making good time and it looks like we may be able to skip that refueling stop in Halifax and make it all the way to New York.” Passenger mumbling to the general tune of wth, until a grandmother rang for ❤the flight attendant to ask if she could please ask the pilot to make sure they had enough fuel. Pilot again “Ladies and gentlemen, I’m sorry for the confusion. We definitely have enough fuel to make it all the way to JFK.”

[@jamesjarrait2231]

That’s interesting! Back in the summer of 1989, I flew to Frankfort, West Germany non stop from Detroit. The flight back was faster AND we had to stop to refuel in Gander. At the time, I didn’t realize how special it was to fly in an L1011.

[@brianethridge208]

I can relate. Around 2004 on a flight from LAX to HKG we had a very strong jet stream that added about 2 hours to our flight. Still a couple of hours out the pilot came on and said we had a refueling option in Japan, but that he was going to "TRY" to make it!

[@DaWolf805]

@@brianethridge208 In these cases there is a dispatcher (or flight operations officer, or flight follower, depending on what your country calls them) on the ground doing the math and working out based on current numbers whether they can make it. Officially, the plane is often dispatched with a flight plan just as far as the refueling point, and the destination as an alternate. If they can make it all the way, they refile the flight plan midair to be nonstop to their destination. Otherwise, they simply land and refuel. There are procedures and rules that have to be followed and the whole thing is incredibly safe, even by airline standards.

[@brianethridge208]

@@DaWolf805 I understand. The captain choosing to casually say "we are going to try", as if it was just a whim, was a big part of what made the flight so memorable for us all.

[@QFWP]

The AS pilot says at 3m21s: "Does it look like it's going beyond that" (talking about the time for the hold)

[@nocoaviation8353]

Alaska 326 5 miles in trail of a heavy boat, runway 4R cleared to land

[@c200d45e95]

Nice headwind for a landing! 21G30!

[@EdOeuna]

It’s a common thing around some airports close to the sea where ships have to be taken into account when calculating performance for departure. Singapore and Malé spring to mind.

[@saxmanb777]

Yes.

[@aerialbugsmasher]

Hardly a rare occurrence in BOS. Ship warnings are all over the approach charts and ATIS. This can happen in PHL too but it's more rare.

[@reecepeart]

Sounds like an Australian Pilot flying the Alaska Aircraft.

[@markmullan8100]

100%

[@cyrilbelica7905]

and all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by

[@robertbutsch1802]

Ha! You mean a STAR?

[@weiniesail]

Pilot needed to yell MARK ROOM!!! at the FAF.

[@FencerPTS]

I wonder the tall ship was in danger of suffering effects from wake turbulence. Would the vortices from a heavy aircraft possibly descend to the water level where they were passing by?

[@tspencer227]

not enough to make a difference- that ship is orders of magnitude more massive/ heavy than the plane.

[@thomasdalton1508]

The vortices can definitely reach the surface - I've seen a video where you can see ripples in the water from wake turbulence of an aircraft on short final over water. I doubt they would pose much danger, though - you can't end up in the middle of the vortex and get flipped over if you are on the surface.

[@FencerPTS]

@@tspencer227 Oh I'd assumed that by "tall ship" they meant a masted ship, like a schooner or a full-rigged ship.

[@tspencer227]

@@thomasdalton1508 I was on an aircraft carrier when a B-52 made a low pass overhead - we didn't feel a thing. And a lot of these container ships and tankers moving out of big ports like Boston displace even more. So yeah, nothing would happen.

[@HiddenWindshield]

@@FencerPTS Even a sailing ship probably wouldn't even _notice_ a plane's wake turbulence. The natural stability advantage of having a keel in the water means the worst it would do is cause the sails to flap around a little. Although, I suppose if someone wasn't paying attention, it would be possible for the boom to hit them in the head or knock them into the water.

[@jeanpauljh]

I experienced this same problem in 2014, when as a passenger on a British Airways 747-400 from LHR to BOS we had to go-around because of a ship in the way. I imagine it's a common occurrence! 😅

[@DaWolf805]

It's actually even mentioned on the charts, there's a separate (higher) set of minimums that have to be followed when tall vessels are reported.

[@armandolasa3717]

Having been there 500 lbs from diverting, the controller explained it best

[@raysutton2310]

Maintain a visual on the Boat?

[@robertbutsch1802]

That controller seemed to be suggesting that Massport’s right hand might not know what it’s left hand is doing. This could be an issue in poor visibility. A few months ago a Caravan on final hit a tower on a potato processing plant somewhere in the northwest in bad weather.

[@danielpearson6306]

Robert Butsch. The Caravan crash was in Twin Falls Idaho. It was a FedEx aircraft. The pilot was a young lady and she was killed. The runway lined up with that tower unfortunately there was never anything done to alleviate the issue.

[@mmayes9466]

@@danielpearson6306 the Caravan crash was in Burley, ID. The pilot descended below the minimum authorized altitude. Not sure what can be done to resolve that.

[@danielpearson6306]

M Mayes. Sorry of the my incorrect city. It was Burley. The only solution is move the tower. To avoid it you have to make a steep glide approach.

[@slappymcgillicuddy7532]

They have this at PHNL with the ships coming out of Pearl Harbor

[@I.J.1981.]

That A;aska pilot was cool as a cucumber, typical Aussie!

[@dallasC822]

Wow, 166ft mast is big. Minimums on that approach are 212ft, and its right over the middle of the channel 😵‍💫 uncomfortably close in a worst case scenario

[@AaronShenghao]

A different type of possible pilot deviation. Except it's a harbor pilot.

[@mikkolukas]

How can a tall ship be allowed to block an airport for multiple minutes without being instructed by the tower in it's approach? There could fine be special regulation for sailing with tall ships at that section, requiring radio coordination with tower.

[@hamletksquid2702]

Sailing vessels have the right of way over powered ones, and their options are far more limited. In all seriousness, they're not getting out of the way or buying ATC radios no matter what. This is one of the reasons airplanes still have pilots.

[@roberteverett1476]

Considering one of them happens to be the oldest Commissioned Warship afloat in the world and its orders come from Congress I'm pretty sure that's covered

[@rBennet_]

This almost reminds me of Hamburg Finkenwerder (EDHI) haha

[@Ink_25]

Hah, I thought the same :D Their runway has red-white markers at the "coast" and "no stopping" signs, luckily

[@rBennet_]

@@Ink_25 yes :D You can yee it here btw: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGm1kpyuhrZ-idk

[@PetrolHeadBrasil]

"Vessel, do you have a pen? Possible boat deviation, we have a phone number for you"

[@outabeat]

I'd like to know if the interference would cause the company to go after the other to regain fuel cost or any cost for the delay in passenger times.

[@atav]

Absolutely not, it's just traffic like any other, part of the risk!

[@andyrichardsvideovlogs8835]

Massport : hello left hand, meet your right hand

[@S1L3NTG4M3R]

Wow - THANKS,. :)

[@Time-Traveller-2025]

There is a simulation of this in the old flight sim

[@parti-gyle6466]

"Caution, wake turbulence... traffic is tall container ship."

[@Raven9409]

Broke out of the clouds once years ago on the ILS to 4R in BOS to be greeted by a magnificent sight…..the USS John F Kennedy was leaving the harbor. Probably the lowest pass over an aircraft carrier by a civilian SAAB 340 in recorded history.

[@ljfinger]

Alaska 326, cleared ILS 4R approach, caution wake turb...uh...I mean caution boat.

[@TrekzoneMedia]

And an Aussie pilot on board Alaskan...

[@eazymoneyracing]

Should have called the ball!!

[@Dan007UT]

that would have been hilarious if some random pilot "i have the ball" on the radio LOL

[@DukeCannon]

Wonder how often that happens?

[@hamletksquid2702]

At St. Bart's, they have to dodge cars on short final.

[@grouperkng1]

According to USCG CFR 23.24567890000000000 the ship would have been 50% at fault if an airplane hit it's stacks by mistake.

[@Dan007UT]

well thats a first for my brain lol

[@av8or971]

Confused. Mast heiggt 166' agl.. but how close to the shore is that ship? Unless the runway is exactly at thr waters edge, their mast height should be no factor, if it is, there should be a NO BOAT ZONE of the runway

[@litterpicker1431]

The runways are on the water's edge. There is a 250-foot restricted area around the airport. That's probably the best they can do, given that they built most of the airport on 1,800 acres of landfill in Boston Harbor

[@peterharris3181]

It is right at the edge of the water, and you couldn’t create a no boat zone because it’s a narrow channel into the seaport and downtown Boston area. Which is why the ILS approach to 4R is not authorized when tall ships are present.

[@av8or971]

@@peterharris3181 well that makes more sense

[@oinker911]

good thing it wasn't Maverick flying, he would have landed on the boat.

[@hotsoup1001]

You jest, but I refer you to the Alraigo Incident of 6 June, 1983. I think you'll enjoy it. 😂

[@phillee2814]

"Permission to buzz the masts"

[@Southwest_923WR]

Can you imagine the cabin conversations after he announced WHY they aborted? HILARIOUS!🤣

[@cenccenc946]

don't you just hate water hazards when flying? 😒 🙄 🤣😂

[@tehphr4nk]

Possible ship deviation 😂

[@Notimp0rtant523]

Wonder if the ship was carrying any tea

[@tristancefail]

My airport!!

[@WX4CB]

departure, what was the reason for the go around..... A326... a boat in the way LOL

[@Republic3D]

The Alaska pilot sounds British.

[@morerightrudder9742]

Australian

[@Republic3D]

@@morerightrudder9742 Same thing, just the southern hemisphere version. :)

[@AnotherDoug]

@@Republic3D You have just made over 25 million enemies. Watch out, mate!

[@Republic3D]

@@AnotherDoug Good thing they're all on the opposite side of the world. :D

[@AnotherDoug]

@@Republic3D We're allowed out now.

[@MrGmoney1993]

That was probably the ship that broke the new ports record with 13,500 containers aboard

[@MSRTA_Productions]

Well...never seen this happened before...heh

[@mattk.9589]

I’ve almost had to send a plane around for a high masted boat off the approach end of the active. Boaters are not the smartest.

[@antoineroquentin2297]

caution wake turbulence ;)

[@pomerau]

The day the can build a passenger ship that can fly, we'll all be in trouble.

[@AnotherDoug]

Isn't that what a passenger plane is: the airborne equivalent of a passenger boat.

[@RR-zq3mk]

Meh sensitive Boston just gets more airplane noise. I’m all for it.

[@pistonburner6448]

Ship happens.

[@kenwat100]

New rule: Aircraft give way vessels. Maybe a crane that can mess with the ILS?

[@skyvenrazgriz8226]

Oi Vessel, get out of my bravo air space also i have a number for you to call ;)

[@nigelwatkins558]

why do controllers call a frequency as 133pointo, surely should be 133 decimal 0

[@VASAviation]

Incorrect. It is point in FAA regulations

[@peterharris3181]

Because that’s the official FAA phraseology. (And also not really a big issue either way, both are perfectly clear.)

[@rael5469]

"Tall Vessel forces Alaska aircraft to go around " How did they know? Would that show up on EGPWS ? I don't think so.

[@elmadevries3254]

You'd get a radar return from a boat but when it's this close to land, it will blend in and most likely the radar is not up anymore anyway because it's no use for the weather at this point. Also, no height reference, so you will see something there but whether it's a flat barge or a crane ship remains a mystery until you're visual

[@rael5469]

@@elmadevries3254 Thanks for the info, Elma.

[@Ale-vy6vd]

There are more planes in the ocean than ships in the sky

[@scooter39045]

What in the world is a Dreamliner?

[@almach6279]

alternate name for a Boeing 787 type

[@freakfly23]

There is a epidemic of shit read backs by pilots that is evident in this video.

[@ragheadand420roll]

Was kelsey flying the dreamliner? 😂

[@wildgurgs3614]

I doubt it. He sometimes flies the dreamLIFTer though! (747 variant vs 787)