Deconstructing Simone de Beauvoir | Janice Fiamengo | EP 80

This episode was recorded on June 27th, 2023.
Janice Fiamengo, a retired Professor of English from the University of Ottawa, initiated The Fiamengo File KZbin series in 2015, delving into the fallacies of academic feminism and its profound societal repercussions. Her 2018 book, "Sons of Feminism: Men Have Their Say," amplifies the voices of men who have faced adversity within our feminist culture. Currently, she is dedicated to crafting a new video series unraveling the roots of anti-male bigotry and female supremacism inherent in the origins of feminism during the 18th and 19th centuries.
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KZbin: • Early Feminists Hoped ...
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- Chapters -
00:00 - Coming Up
02:08 - Simone de Beauvoir's Influence on Feminism
03:54 - Historical Context of Feminist Anger and Militancy
04:33 - Shifts in Feminist Grievances Post-WWII
05:22 - Beauvoir on Myths of Femininity and Their Impact
06:30 - The Legacy of 'The Second Sex' on Modern Feminism
07:45 - Exploring Beauvoir's Personal Beliefs and Controversies
10:50 - Motherhood and Femininity in Beauvoir's Perspective
12:04 - Beauvoir's Shift from Catholicism to Philosophy
16:03 - Beauvoir's Visits to Communist Countries and Its Influence
18:23 - Feminist Criticism of 'The Second Sex' and Its Contemporary Relevance
19:30 - Janice Critiques Beauvoir's Views on Womanhood and Power Dynamics
22:12 - Influential Feminist Doctrines Emerging from Beauvoir's Theories
23:48 - The Consequences of Beauvoir's Ideas on Modern Feminism
26:32 - The Role of Men in Feminist Theory and the Reality of Male Sacrifice
27:15 - Discussing the Realities of Traditional Male Roles and Their Hidden Costs
35:01 - The Effects of Feminism on Birth Rates and Community Life
36:20 - Evaluating Feminism's Achievements and Its Costs to Society
37:02 - Deconstructing Gender: Beauvoir's Legacy and Its Modern Implications
42:18 - The Role of Culture in Shaping Gender Perceptions According to Beauvoir
45:02 - Modern Feminism's Struggle with the Notion of 'Benevolent Sexism'
48:06 - The Impact of Feminism on Male Spaces and Gender Dynamics

[@NPC-zv8bo]

You should interview Rachel Wilson, author of Occult Feminism. She goes so much deeper than this.

[@b4zz3d59]

Just finished the audiobook and started round two. It truly is next level. 💪GOD Wins🙏

[@lmr1049]

Rachel Wilson is cringe and embarrassing.

[@thebaldman72]

Wonderful interview. Janice is an absolute rock star. Sharp and articulate.

[@robertmacaulay3051]

Thank you very much for your conversation. I am lucky enough to have been married to a lovely woman for over 50 years but view the prospects for my grandsons with pessimism so different from the optimism I had at their age. Thank you for speaking out about the pernicious effects of feminism. And to put words in your mouths, there is such a thing as toxic feminism and women have powers that aren’t widely acknowledged but which men know the effects of. Your balance is much to be admired.

[@rebeccapenders5050]

Great stuff! Janice is fantastic and Tammy is one of the best interviewers out there. Two brilliant, circumspect, compassionate women. ❤

[@stvbrsn]

Mary?

[@rebeccapenders5050]

@@stvbrsn Whoops, I had just listened to an interview with Mary Harrington lol I'll edit. Thanks!

[@stvbrsn]

@@rebeccapenders5050 lol. No worries, only after I replied to your comment did I notice some other comments reflecting that this video was originally uploaded with Mary Harrington’s name on it (which was fixed before I even got here). Kind of ironic and funny. Cheers!

[@g.m.5590]

Great convo, thank you ladies for shedding more light on this feminist sex cult 🙏

[@isabellepatthey4081]

I read le deuxième sex in french in a swiss college. At the time I found her book a tedious read, and that was before I found out about her complicated and unhealthy, abusive relationship with Jean Paul Sartre.

[@mikepolioudakis775]

As part of my PhD hurdles, I read parts (my choice which) of de Beauvoir in French. In the French style of the time, she is not a bad writer. I could actually understand her a lot of the time. French has more potential for reflexive constructions than English. French writers love to take advantage of that. This reflects back on that and that reflects back on this. Which turned out to be part of the problem. After I sorted out the cleverness and reflexivity, I realized it was about 70 percent bs based more on style and cleverness than on substance. Some good insights but not nearly as coherent as it seemed at first. Ah, well. Decades ago. Sorry to force my memories on you. Thanks. Mike

[@vira1340]

Janice is fantastic.

[@AFringedGentian]

This was excellent and I learned so much. Thank you, dear Mrs. Peterson and dear Mrs. Fiamengo.

[@genevievec.4322]

Thank you so much for this continuing series with Janice, Tammy! I appreciate it so much. I don't miss a single discussion between you two.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Yes it is much needed , Jordan is too much of a feminist to do this 🤭

[@kentklostreich95]

I had a feminist professor at my conservative Christian university. She would use class time to literally cry over things like female foot-binding in China. But oopsey-doopsey, she completely forgot about all the men killed in warfare over the eons. This kind of thing takes people off guard and now it sounds strange to push back against this kind of thinking.

[@grannyannie2948]

I pity your experience, I'd have been furious. There is no western equivalent to foot binding. And even in the Middle Ages men facing death in war saw it as no more than women faced in childbirth.

[@blugaledoh2669]

Well tbf women are also killed in war.

[@grannyannie2948]

@@blugaledoh2669 Women only fight in war war because feminists demand the do. They traditionally didn't fight. Only in lost wars did women suffer which made the men fight harder.

[@AmanSingh-nt3ll]

@@blugaledoh2669 sadly, not as much.

[@blugaledoh2669]

@@AmanSingh-nt3ll depends I suppose

[@Highwayman589]

Wonderful talk. Janice is amazing and I hope you have her back.!

[@johnhood9567]

We've all got Janice's back 😉

[@HeadstrongGirl]

The title is incorrect - this is Janice Fiamango, not Mary Harrington

[@leekasmar7508]

Fascinating!

[@stvbrsn]

Janice used the term “enculturate” here, and this is a perfect example of why I need KZbin videos like this in my life. I’m the kind of person who likes to discuss these things in everyday conversation (in other words: Asperger’s) and whenever I use the word “enculturate” or “enculturation” people look at me funny. Janice just drops it in with no fuss. A further example: the first time I typed it, it took three attempts before I could get autocorrect to back off.

[@patriciag6127]

Thank you, Tammy. Love listening to Janice speak.

[@vilmarazauskiene1172]

Such a good episode!

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Please fix and credit Janice Fiamengo . Can you please facilitate a public debate between Janice Fiamengo & Jennifer Bilek, in my opinion it would make many lies obvious to people. Thank you for this interview

[@patricksullivan1827]

Moreover - some kind of infographic presentation. 😮 That's the real solution to "misinformation"

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@patricksullivan1827 Nah you missed the point. Janice would pick every calculated lie by Bilek apart one by one with out a nasty word at all. Most peoples lies are easy to tear apart without visuals but i get that you like them.

[@patricksullivan1827]

@@non_ideological_transexual7414 we have such an lack of attention span , and even politicians are sources of misinfo... They only need to fool enough people at election time... People with university degrees are the new laymen... So it's sort of a show don't tell solution... But I also hear what your saying as well .. whatever works.. at this point public discourse can't even handle legitimate criticisms to basic problems... Like infographics for airports ,- we could make social orientation maps.... Perhaps a pipe dream!

[@sarahjane8527]

As a young child i realised that having my own family wasn't for me, the burden of three younger sibling on me was extremely stressful and something i wouldn't choose for myself. However i have had many friends with children that i have supported and had much joy in watching and being a part of the young life developing. Motherhood is the foundation of society.

[@Miriana727]

Thank you Tammy. Please have more of Janice Flamengo. I have learned so much from your videos with her. And thank you for all your videos.

[@eval7952]

When I was around 10 yrs old we went to a bday party, and the maid’s 18yr old son got sent to the store to buy more sodas and on the way back he got picked up by police, and sent to military service academy. This happened in South America, late 80s. I remember being so scared that at any time I could just be picked up and sent away to the military. I also remember when boys turn 18 and win the lottery to serve they have to get that ugly army haircut, so when enlisting time comes around everyone knows cause u see boys walking around w bald heads, and it kinda becomes like a joke. everyone has a laugh that boys have to go through that, even the boys themselves start finding ways to laugh at it. For ex. If there’s a boy that’s too vein, or just has really nice hair, people will make it a point to give him that ugly haircut, almost like that Jackass prank where camera guy sneaks around buzzing guys heads.

[@miroirs-jumeaux]

Simone de Beauvoir sounds like the worst kind of person to take seriously.

[@HowardSchoonover]

love you guys, hanging on every word

[@lottie4321]

Great conversation. Janice is on another level of articulation that’s such a pleasure to absorb ❤

[@michellewhalen4477]

Great guest!

[@mryouben]

In 1935 beauvoir and sartre visited nazi Gerrmany. They had nothing to object. Later on sartre became the most vivid supporter of stalin. That is the political extrem beauvoir is writting out of.

[@user-dl3er9zw2m]

Looking forward to hearing this

[@YobboLivesMatter]

That's a great comparison about the little kids and the power point.

[@McInerneyEoin]

We men do have a way to defend ourselves. We walk away. What a lot of women don't get yet is that when we are done, we are done. We will enjoy our lives alone doing projects. The peace is something we wont sacrifice once we have it.

[@LeJa-ks1vc]

But women do that too 😅 walk away, stay away, do their thing, not wanting to sacrifice their peace once they have it I do agree partly though At this point, I think there are many women who forget that men are human beings I think they're both being dehumanized and looked at more like they're potential ressources than living beings

[@jin8982]

​@@LeJa-ks1vcit's also how they've groomed an entire generation of men and women that they don't need each other. A healthy society sees men and women as complimentary to each other and not as adversaries.

[@kevinboothby5260]

I would also like to hear how the transgender craze and sexualizing of children is the result of 1970's feminism.

[@LeJa-ks1vc]

Interesting enough, when I googled Beauvoir while listening I read that she had signed a petition in 1977 against a law which forbid sex with underage (under 15) children.

[@kevinboothby5260]

@@LeJa-ks1vc Good sleuthing!

[@stephs4kids]

So many women have bought into their own delusions of me me me because of the feminist anger. I worry for my sons - hoping they find women that have not been damaged by this horrible ideology of man hatred.

[@YobboLivesMatter]

Thank you for explaining a better evolutionary reason for male strength and testosterone. Not because men have always been stronger that they went out to hunt, but because women were more important due to their ability to have children that the men were sent out to hunt. Then, the stronger men were more successful at hunting and so evolved the sexual difference by testosterone. I'd never managed to combine the importance of childbirth to societies with the reason that women were NOT sent out to hunt elephants in the jungle. I always thought it was due to the male's strength, but now you've put it the other way phylogenically. Men evolved bigger and stronger BECAUSE they were sent out to hunt dangerous beasts, and the reason for that was that without women in the tribe to have babies, the tribe was doomed. According to natural selection, that would have happened more often than not before our ancestors worked out the best way to keep their shows on the roads.

[@priscillalongworth1720]

There is nothing more creative than growing a little in your body!

[@clodaghread5655]

the philosopher Carrie Gress would be a great guest

[@TammyPetersonPodcast]

I'm going to interview Carrie Gress. Thank you

[@AFringedGentian]

@@TammyPetersonPodcast oooh, I can’t wait

[@brittybee6615]

It’s summer already in Canada???

[@niemeld]

It would be very interesting to watch you have Alison Tielman from the Honey badger brigade as a guest. Also Paul Elam would be as much interesting as a guest.

[@metgirl5429]

Are we awake now🕊

[@eco7221]

Please invite Sheila Jeffreys, she is a historian of the women's movement and can explain the background of what particular feminist ideas where a reaction against and the myriad of ways in which particular thinkers also were and are misrepresented.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Why ? Sheila Jeffreys is one of the worst femminst "theorists" that misassign causes to things so that the underlying causes of many things are never addressed where women's blame is rightly pointed. Lesbians should have Zero say in the formation of heterosexual culture and how it is ordered especially poisonous radical feminists that deny basic science about humans like her. Do you you think i should have a say in how men should be men ? That would be INSANE, I am an OUTLIER & so is Sheila Jeffreys. At least i recognize average sex differences do not deny science , Radical feminists are the WORST of all feminists in that regard. Feminists lie about feminism and the history of it that is why Janice Fiamango ,Carrie Gress ,Racheal Wilson others are doing the research and EXPOSING LIES.😆

[@kentklostreich95]

In the 14th century men had exciting careers as astronauts and volcanologists. Women had to stay home raising babies and watching soap operas. It was so unfair!

[@grannyannie2948]

😂😂😂, truly had a great laugh.

[@Hybrid_The_Hero]

Come back to Ottawa, Janice.

[@margaretmaeda2548]

I wince a bit when I reread some of Simone de Beauvoir because it's naturally dated, but being older than Dr Fiamengo and half French, I have seen families who were de Beauvoir's contemporaries. They were very loving families but I can see a bit where she was coming from. There's a danger in comparing our lives now with those of de Beauvoir's in France.

[@gg_rider]

I hear Black people reject the myth of safety and solidarity among Black people, though whenever an incident is publicized about a White person winning a sports award, or some type of win in the arts or music, or any disagreement or fight, in that case, many Blacks line up in racial solidarity even beyond a sensible argument. I'm thinking of the discussion around Caitlin Clark winning achievements over some Black WNBA players _because she's White_ as being more important than her talent and popularity with huge crowds paying money to watch her play. On the other hand, little solidarity in a constructive sense. I've heard the same for a woman who built an all-female business corporation. In place of harmony, she found gossip, jealousy, preening, pointless social competition, sexual fawning over a few male visitors, plus abusive entitlement by a few "Queens" who failed to do work for which they were responsible or dumped their work on other women. Jewish community in-fighting is legendary, but Jews may be somewhat more drawn together in actual solidarity, end setting aside differences, over the necessities of survival and success.

[@briankeepers6728]

Not belittling what a girl goes through at puberty but a boy has his own struggles. The penis is constantly going up and down with absolutely zero stimulation. You spend so much time trying to stealthily readjust things down there hoping no one notices and fearing a random erection popping up in a situation where it can’t be hidden. We all have struggles. We need to understand that they are different but one is a victim because we’re all in it together

[@user-lq3tx7ye2z]

I completely agree with some statements against Simone, but let's not put men on a pedestal... I don't understand this "either or" need... it's never "either, or" it's almost always a "both and..." plus let' not forget, God gave patriarchy as a punishment the restored world should see equality between men and women if feminism is seen as a movement to reach that equality and by that I mean a world where we both fit in, not a world where a woman needs to be like a man, if feminity would be an action to restore equality then yes I am 100% on board but I believe some people see feminism as a way to say women are better than men when in reality... we could both be better...

[@gg_rider]

Janice's series addresses some male feminists from the 1800s

[@bridgetjustmakeityourself1361]

Hmmmm…sounds to me like Mlle. de Beauvoir grew up in a dysfunctional alcoholic family. 😢

[@benaiahwright937]

I think we need to consider the importance of feminism for women that are "undesirable". If no man is coming to her rescue she does need the agency to thrive on her own. I hate feminism but I've been tinkering with this caveat.

[@janeproctor5542]

16:00 16:00 It seems as if de Beauvoir had a little of the Ghislaine Maxwell, i.e. the killer instinct, like the 1:21:03 lioness who provides for the lazy lion in exchange for attention or recognition. Maybe she started drinking or drank to drown her resentment. I have heard that in spite of her views on women being deprived of freedom from falling victim to traditional feminine roles, that she was never able to extricate herself from Sartre, who valued her as an intellectual companion, but who she might have been better off leaving, had she been able to end the relationship. However, being a public couple, they were able to preserve the mystique of their ,,special union,, until the news broke some time after they had died that, romantically speaking, it was far from a ,,bed of roses,, especially for her.

[@shans1986]

Beaufort would have been appalled by the deeds of gm enslaving and using Women and giirls.

[@janeproctor5542]

1:21:03 None the less Maxwell, for all we know, may have taken a few pages out of ,,The Second Sex,, de Beauvoirs ground breaking book, and felt she was just doing a favour to those girls, exposing them to a more ,,lib,, view of life, both self justifying and otherwise gratifying to herself and supposedly to them, as well. At least that is how she came across at her trial. That she had just done these young ladies a favour.

[@TMTM584]

Tammy like her husband are grifters. I hope they find peace.

[@patricksullivan1827]

I hope you don't get trump elected again!

[@AndyJarman]

There is a lot of loaded/coded meaning in much of what passes for the liberal lexicon today. I find the idea of Marxism as somehow belonging to the left wing of liberalism particularly preposterous. Marxism is NOT left of centre, it is not liberal at all and applying Left-Right descriptors to it is deceiving. National Socialism grew out of Marxism, both are anti liberal, but both maintained they were the inevitable conclusion of liberalism and presaged it's extinction. The idea of equality is another of these bug bears of mine. Equality between people can never be achieved. The Magna Carta forced King John to concede that people should be treated under the same laws, and that those laws should be applied to everyone. BUT, the idea that anyone is the equivalent of anyone else reduces the human being down to a digit. This idea of equality is particularly egregious to the treatment and regard in which the sexes are held. It seems obvious to me that the current obsession with the idea of "trans" and thr "Queering" of social norms is inevitably going to mean men will dominate and oppress women because men are on the whole larger, faster and stronger. Without social conventions the relationship between every individual must be negotiated from first principles and society will fall apart. Accommodations for women, and recognition of their particular status is the only way a society can flourish. Men need to display and provide consideration for the particular roles and abilities women bring to society. Just as the particular qualities of men should be recognised. Vive la difference.

[@DrLimbic]

Marxism is anti-class liberationism. Liberalism is anticollectivist liberationism. In that way these belong to the same cultural historical tradition.

[@alpacacomentadora413]

picke me boomers

[@eagle162]

Try to come up with an actual argument.

[@virginiacharlotte7007]

I’m pretty sure two women who are already happily married for decades need not feel the need to impress other men as a means for them to be considered as ‘pick me’ girls. How about you try to grow up a little, listen closely, maybe learn something and just try respecting the wisdom these women now have to share with the world.

[@patricksullivan1827]

Maga trump lover!

[@emmadezwaan]

Alrlatl is a hunting tool women invented to throw spears with more speed, compromislzing their lack of muscle power. Women have always been hunters, but in stead of muscles, they used brainpower. Know your history and don't come across like a fool again!

[@peterwilkin8917]

Awesomeness !!!