Which Pokémon Villain Team Had The Best Plan?

[@AgusSkywalker]

I disagree with 2 points about Ghetsis: 1: I don't think he ever want N as his successor. I think he planned on neutralizing him in some way after he succeded on his plan. 2: Reshiram and Zekrom only allow people to catch them if they have strong ideals. Ghetsis could never have controlled them, so he used N. And having him be a willing collaborator in his plan of world domination would also be against this part of the plan. If N was a fraud like Ghetsis, the dragon wouldn't have chosen him. In the end I think Ghetsis' plan is the smartest one in Pokemon

[@noname-pp2vd]

i think original team plasma should be way higher. ghetsis groomed and manipulated N from a very young age, making N believe that radical ways may be needed to free pokemon. ghetsis knew very well how pure and empathetic N was, which is why he was the perfect candidate to manipulate for ghetsis. keep in mind that ghetsis needed a pure heart like N to summon the legendary dragon and ghetsis would‘ve most likely gotten rid of N as soon as he was no longer useful to him. his plan was very well thought out, the only thing that got in his way was the player character, otherwise ghetsis would‘ve probably gone away with his plan to rule the region.

[@Hamantha]

18:32 that was the plan, he wasn’t going to keep N there that much longer once the dragons were together in one place. It’s why his team perfectly counters N

[@TamValleyProductions]

That’s an interesting point. I didn’t even realize that!

[@Hamantha]

@@TamValleyProductions picking up clues that I found, I think he only really needed N and the Player to get the dragons and that’s about it 🤔 If the player wasn’t, y’know, the player… I could see him actually being pretty successful

[@Unison23]

Also, he knew he couldn’t get the dragons. Only N and the player could because of their pure hearts and desire to search truth and ideals. Ghetsis wants people to release their Pokémon so he’s the sole ruler, so does N but for the sake of Pokémon. So his plan actually makes more sense and is well thought out, he just couldn’t keep his big mouth shut

[@Hamantha]

@@Unison23 yes that too

[@a.x.x8184]

@@TamValleyProductions Then this video is mid just like your opinions. Play and know something before making a video without bias.

[@aoifeblack_4153]

"It seems that without clear, centralised direction without giovanni specifically, team rocket kind of flounders" That's it. That's the point.

[@kag2576]

2:35-Reminder that Leon was ready and willing to help Rose with his issue, he just had to wait for the championship match to be finished. Bro basically had to wait like a single day and went 'damn Leon, guess I have no other choice but to go off the deep end, you've really forced my hand!'

[@TamValleyProductions]

Truly. His timing was wack.

[@olafmikoaj3121]

Well to be exact when we look at Roses dialog we can see that the reason he decided not to wait was because he believed Leon doesn't understand him. From his mad perspective ot seemed like Leon was more concerned about some pokemon battle instead of future of the Galar region. He couldn't wait do Leon could take his plan seriously because Rose planned that Leon will be the Hero to defeat Eternatus just as it was in the legend.

[@TamValleyProductions]

@@olafmikoaj3121 True! You’d think that he would have discussed this privately with Leon beforehand, rather than forcing his hand in front of a crowd of 50,000+ people while Leon is busy

[@olafmikoaj3121]

@@TamValleyProductions That was because he wanted Leon to be busy about Galar future rather than solving the problem. By interrupting match with so many watchers he must have gotten Leon attention. Check my comment for full explanation.

[@BroZilla-vh3tu]

I imagine it was to get Galar's attention from the championship so that he'd be remembered as the man who solved the energy crisis before it happened

[@mosthatedty9585]

they blew up the lakes to summon the guardians azelf mesprit and uxie because they needed they're power to use the red chain which didnt work.

[@TamValleyProductions]

Good point!

[@trevorswims5754]

* their power

[@mosthatedty9585]

@@trevorswims5754 thanks for the correction I hate messing up on grammar like that

[@trevorswims5754]

@@mosthatedty9585 no problem

[@Garde_Mystik]

Not gonna lie Team Galactic should have been destroyed on the spot considering what the lake trio were capable of.

[@browncow5210]

The best two are probably Giovanni (original, not Rainbow) and Ghetsis. One is a successful mob boss who knows what he wants and isn't stupidly overambitious. The other is 1:1 a real world politician who tries to sympathize with the public to get them to disarm while he pockets the biggest gun in town. He also had the sense to set up a proxy king he could manipulate and let take the fall for him if things go south, and specifically engineered his own team to take him down in case of rebellion.

[@TamValleyProductions]

I agree! Two of the best individual leaders.

[@CCuppy29]

Also, notably, Plasma is one of the only teams not single handedly dismantled by one kid. It took every gym leader and the champion’s involvement to keep Plasma’s heavy hitters busy.

[@honkaidragonslayer7178]

Ghetsis couldn’t get Reshiram/Zekrom because they simply wouldn’t awaken for him, they only awaken to test/follow a person with a pure heart and strong virtues of truth or ideals respectively. Ghetsis’s heart on the other hand is probably the most impure one of any evil team leaders, he even admits so in Pokémon evolutions, that’s why he needed N.

[@grahamturner6266]

I feel that when we are talking about the primordial beings of the Land and Sea the water cycle goes out the window

[@shi6597]

Ghetsis needed N because he knew there would be no way Reshiram or Zekrom would choose him as a hero. He needed someone of pure heart and the drive to carry out a noble cause, which was N.

[@sakulhd8189]

The amount of errors made when rating plasma ircks me. It makes it seem like he had no actual clue what he is talking about

[@Garde_Mystik]

Btw, regarding Team Flare's plans. They were in the Poké Ball Factory to collect Poké Balls and catch as many Pokémon as possible to use as fuel for the Ultimate Weapon. They were in the Frost Cavern trying to steal an Abomasnow thanks to the high amounts of life energy it seemed to have (referenced to the Abomasite you obtained from it after). They were wanting to use its life energy as fuel for the ultimate weapon. (The dialogue also tried to strongly hint this being the case before you are able to find out what those Pokémon were actually for at Geosenge) For the Power Plant I assume because this was before you and they met AZ, they were first thinking the Power Plant could be used to fuel the Ultimate Weapon, but did not yet realize it needed to be powered through other means. Team Flare were so secretive with why they were commiting these actions that it required thinking in hindsight during the climax and following its events in order to understand why they did what they were doing. The writing was also quite scattered, so a lot of this even almost requires talking to random NPCs to get more of an idea of what happened, and otherwise paying extra close attention to the dialogue as Tierno only briefly mentions what he and Trevor were doing during the climax. Despite all this, I believe the reasonings for Team Flare's actions are there and they do tie in with their endgoal. It wasn't just Xerneas/Yveltal they were using. They tied many Pokémon to stones and had those stones drain their life energy on Route 10. Tierno and Trevor worked with Dexio and Sina to save the lives of those Pokémon while you, Calem/Serena, and Shauna were in the base to stop Lysandre.

[@Garde_Mystik]

I find this team underrated. The biggest issues were the lack of character behind almost all of their scientists and leaving the one who had character, only have it almost exclusively shown in the postgame story. Those were some huge misses, Yeah.

[@9JJ871]

Thank you for giving this game more credit than it usually gets. If we read just a little between the lines, when Lysandre talks about about a beautiful world uncorrupted by "filth", he doesn't mean like environmental conservation or public art. The dialogue hints at ethnic cleansing and a national rebirth by redemptive violence. Everything is in pursuit of that. They aren't just goofs in fun outfits.

[@neodica5967]

I feel like Aqua and Magma's conflict is supposed to be more like the fight between the sun and moon in Kirby Milky Way Wishes. It's not something that makes sense scientifically, but it does make sense mythologically, especially since Groudon and Kyogre are embodiments of nature. As for Ghetsis not getting Zekrom/Reshiram himself, I'm pretty sure it's because the dragon would only respond to someone pure of heart iirc. He at least needed someone kindhearted enough to befriend the dragon, and as we all know Ghetsis is notoriously bad at extending kindness to dragon Pokemon. That being said, Ghetsis was extremely lucky that N didn't find out any part of his plan during the 20 years that he raised him. Or worse, N could've grown up to be a shitty person that was unworthy of the dragons, and then Ghetsis would have to find another orphan to brainwash. And in BW2, I assume the reason Team Plasma wanted to freeze Unova was just because it was within Kyurem's powerset. If they had access to Kyogre or Eternatus, they'd probably flood or laser the region instead.

[@snapple5950]

The why for power is because the legendaries must choose the hero. Ghestis knew he wouldn’t be chosen so he needed someone who genuinely cared for Pokémon, who was more passionate about the cause than anyone else.

[@gavinaaric]

is it me or is it just hard to hate team skull they are literally my favorite Evil Team they're design is literally perfection and they're why SM/USUM is underrated

[@TamValleyProductions]

They definitely have the most endearing personalities!

[@gavinaaric]

@@TamValleyProductions yeah

[@UnlikeRelic]

There's a grunt in Pokemon x and y. Who when you beat says "you're too poor to join team flare anyways" which automatically makes it the best team also they are French guys who want to rid the world of ugly and imperfect people leaving a pure group of people using the Holo caster which can't be unintentional

[@AzureFlute]

This was a great video! I liked the thoughts you shared throughout

[@BigOrangeSnowman88]

yeah, he did well

[@TamValleyProductions]

Thank you so much!

[@geekecology]

For as flawed as Team Aqua's plans were, they seem to be the only ones effecting our world since we keep getting hit by more and more hurricanes and flooding every year 😅

[@TamValleyProductions]

Agreed!

[@TamValleyProductions]

(And maybe Ghetsis, with a rise in authoritarianism…)

[@Theserperiortrainer497]

Rose's plan is so close to being good but is Ts just that 1000 it should've been a 100 oh and flare's plan was great The villany was all yo het power for the ultimate weapon

[@magicalmonoceros2407]

>An adult saying 'elias' instead of 'alias' like they've never heard or seen the word before Dead Internet Theory at its finest.

[@bluephoenix4241]

Team Magma's goal wasn't to benefit humanity, it was to expand the habitats of Ground Type Pokemon.

[@Garde_Mystik]

Global warming be like 🌊

[@Dusxio]

Both actually. Habitats for terrestrial pokemon species to expand into, and space for humans to develop.

[@Linky]

The setup 🔥🔥🔥

[@TamValleyProductions]

Thanks homie!

[@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv]

This was a fun video. So any chance of doing the same but with ranking the main protagonists and their accomplishments instead?

[@TamValleyProductions]

That would be a great idea!

[@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv]

I think you confused a bit about Lisamine’s motives and Team Aeather. First of all the whole getting fused with Nihilego only happens in regular Sun & Moon, and that only happened cause Lusamine is crazy obsessed with Ultra Beasts and wants to capture them. Second the whole to protect Aloa from Ultra Beasts had ground work in SM but was actually brought forward proper in USUM. In those games they actually want to protect Aloha from Ultra Beasts with Necrozma, being their number one target to get rid of. That is why they accept help from Ultra Space Recon Squad. So instead when they head into portal it’s to take down Necrozma, but when the cast reopen another portal to back them up, Lusamine & Guzma get sent back out having been defeated by it. Thus leading to Necrozma entering aloha, possessing one of boxart legendaries, and later amassing enough power to transform into its Ultra Forme. Same Team but different motives and methods depending the game. Lastly no Nihilego possession in the Ultra games means no poison recovery needed so no wierd Kanto trip to see Bill to fix her. She is much more stable in the Ultra games.

[@Forever-GM-Dusty]

I actually think regular plasma had the better plan than neo plasma. And the reason is, you have to think about what Ghetsis actually wanted. He wasn't trying to create a line of succession, he couldn't care less about what happened after he died. He just wanted control. The reason he used N the way he did, was that it was the only way to draw out the legendary. He used team plasma the way he did to garner public support. He didn't have to actually agree with what he sold, because it didn't really conflict with his plan to enforce his own power for the rest of his life. And through that context, he was possibly the most successful villain outside of Rainbow Rocket who were destined to fall apart anyway, while he was not until a generation or 2 after he stopped caring

[@FTChomp9980]

Team Galactic wanted to reshape and build a new world which man sounds messed up alone I remember playing Pokemon Platinum back when I was a kid then Giratina banished Cyrus to the Distortion World. Cyrus wanted to be his own god and have his own world since the world treated him like crap and I kept thinking how much different Cyllene is she is firm but also caring the total opposite of Cyrus.

[@TamValleyProductions]

Yeah there’s definitely a different level of crazy with Cyrus. Lots of these villains want to be rulers and impose their will on the world as it is, but it’s a whole other level to want to literally destroy and remake the whole world AND rule it. Talk about a God complex.

[@paulgrotebeverborg1119]

I wonder where Cipher from Colosseum/XD Gale of Darkness would rank

[@theStridingRebel]

It was implied I believe that Lysandre was gathering all the worst people, the people he deemed truly "ugly" in Team Flare so he could exterminate them all once the weapon went off. The incredibly high price of joining team flare would almost guarantee the wealthy, the greedy and selfish. And those who would get money by more dubious and violent means, the dregs of humanity and Lysandre's reason for carrying out his plan. He does say that the player and his/her friends are the perfect example of who he deems "beautiful"

[@madnessarcade7447]

There’s no better or worse they all had their own unique and creative approach it’s not a competition

[@kaotic300]

team magma are the heroes hoenn needed but didn't deserve 🌋

[@G00lden]

For Ghetsis "the N justify the means"... :V

[@FTChomp9980]

Not to mention very manuipulative.

[@TamValleyProductions]

Poor N.

[@olafmikoaj3121]

Well I have to disagree about Macro Cosmos plan being dumb. Roses motivations were stupid but his plan was thought really well. So for starters he needed to gain energy from Eternatus. For this he needed a Hero that can taim it and in Rose's eyes Leon was perfect for that role (remember he didn't know about Zacian and Zamazenta. That was discovered by Sonia). As for the reason he couldn't wait it was because Rose believed that the crysis is the most important thing right now and Leon should've taken his plan seriously. Because he needed Leon to be fully invested into this. So motivations aren't great (like it should've been 100 years not millenia) but the plan was executed almost perfectly exept that he didn't know about Hero duo.

[@starvoltnexus3139]

To be honest as a top 3 I wanna say Team Rocket at least in Gen 1 We are probably because of corruption they’re ultimately able to sneak around in the shadows Gen 2 has this to a lesser Extent they’re a bit more obvious and have as much hold in Johto and they might be goalless without Giovanni 2: Team Galactic Again they were pretty easily able to sneak around in the shadows and they almost succeeded especially in platinum and their goal was the most damaging 1: Team Star: Penny takes after her Uncle in organization and intelligence and Team Star actually succeeded it just had repercussions they didn’t want. And she expertly executed StarFall which again was successful Also the fucking embezzlement XP ahh Penny ya channeled Rose’s save Galar plan there

[@Articfoxgamez]

I never understood the argument against rose of "The crisis isnt going to happen for another 1000 years". It's called stopping a problem BEFORE its a problem, rather than delaying it to the last second. Something it would of been great if we had done irl with things like global warming.

[@mikaruyami]

I'm kind of curious how you'd rate Cipher from Colosseum/XD i all of this.

[@TamValleyProductions]

Spin off villains would be interesting to tackle next!

[@chmandcrm]

Common Unova W

[@dougstrother5184]

Zekrom and reshiram only appear to those who’s intentions are good. Ghetsis purposefully raised N to truly love pokemon and sprinkled in some lies about abuse from people so he was still on board with taking them away from people. He needed to want it for non evil purposes so he could also summon the legendary for him to then capture and seize control of

[@rynobehnke8289]

I just want to correct a few mistakes made here Team Galactic blow up the lack because to forge the red chain do they need the 3 lake guardians but they are unacceptable. So by blowing up the lack did they also bust there way into one of the Guardians resting places. Capturing it than caused so much confusion that it woke up the other 2 allowing the Team to go after them too without having to set off a giant bomb first. And the Red Chain did work perfectly fine in controlling Dialga and Palkia. The reason Cyrus lost control was ether because the actions of the hero freed the lake guardians which unbeknownst to Cyrus can destroy the red chain them self (Diamond and Pearl) or because the third member of the creation trio which existence was forgotten over time meaning he had no way that Giratina was something he had to account for. Team Flair did actually have a reason for almost all there action. The Ultimate Weapon needed a lot of energy. Like more than it even had during it original use to properly end all life on the world. And all there hi-tech equipment cost a lot of money too and Lysander can't pay for it all himself without raising suspicions. They also took a ton of Pokeballs form the Pokeball factory to capture a ton of pokemon as by tying them to the stones on route 10 were they able to drain there life energy too for the Ultimate Weapon as just the Legendary wouldn't be enough. G-Cis is actually far more evil than you think here he let N be someone that would eventually oppose him when he learns about his real plan because he needed something with the power of one of the Legendary Dragons to realize his plans and they only obey to those that are actually good. G-Cis entire Pokemon Team he uses when you fight him after N is clearly tailor made to counter N's entire team. The moment N stopped being useful was he always planning on getting rid of him. This is as he is so selfish that he and ONLY HE shall rule. And as Black and White 2 show were more people on G-Cis side than on N's Given that Team Rocked in gen 2 is technically a reformed team do I feel like its unfair to gen 1 Team Rocked to have there score being pulled down as a few admins plan less attempt at a revival didn't go as planed. I feel like the instability with in Rainbow Rocked was a bit played down here like G-Cis is already openly planning on manipulating and than overthrowing Giovanni for his own goals.

[@Vahria-2_Rivaha-4_]

I think Magma would make a little more Sense. We Humans need Land to Live. Sure, Water is needed, but we Live on it and so it would make for me more Sense to Support.

[@giboit.]

Something that I want to point out is that the dynamax energy wasn't just used for electricity. It had applications in pretty much every field in the region.That's why many of the companies affiliated to Macrocosmos aren't even energy related. And Rose's plan does makes sense though. And it's highly tied to everything you hear and watch during your entire playthrough about the legend of Galar, the characters and specially about Leon. In fact, something that people loves to point out about is the whole Leon being an unbeatable champion thing being mentioned several times during the game but this is actually a huge plot point.This because Rose was developing his plan based on his (incomplete/inaccurate) knowledge of the legend of Galar that was (the one that talks about how "a hero" was the one who stopped the first darkest day and that was pretty much considered common knowledge in the region). A fact that people tend to miss when it comes to his plan is that, while dynamax energy is incredibly useful in many fields, the wishing stars themselves (that are parts of Eternatus scattered through the region 3000 years ago) aren't unlimited. So in order to ensure the future of Galar (by making Eternatus scatter wishing stars once again through the entire region like it did in the past), he needed to recreate the events of the first darkest day. Because of this, he needed two things: to bring back the darkest day (a.k.a Eternatus) and "a hero" to defeat it (and in current times, this would be Leon, the strongest trainer in Galar's history). Which made Leon's cooperation an absolutely vital part of his plan. As seen through the game, Rose isn't really a bad person. He loves Galar, had a huge role in his development as a metropolis and has a great eye to find talented people that could help with that growth (Oleana, Leon, Bede, etc). But he also has some really strong ideals. And that's why the scene where he expels Bede from the gym challenge for destroying the ancient mural is so important. Because is meant to show that Rose cuts associations with anyone that goes againts the well being of Galar in some way or another. And just like what happened with Bede, he also got dissapointed with Leon's actions. Bede wasn't Rose's adopted son. However Bede wasn't just the gym challenger endorsed by Rose either. He was pretty much his plan B in case Leon refused to take part in his plan. A gym challenger with great talent that could potentially beat Leon and become the champion. Even Bede's original type specialty was influenced by taking into account his potential cooperation with the plan. That's why he was a psychic type user. With psychic being obviously one of Eternatus biggest weaknesses. But he lost this plan B as a result of what happened with the mural since he considered Bede as unreliable due to his actions. Although he was unaware of Oleana's petition to Bede and how (unintentionally on Oleana's part), encouraged Bede to go to extremes to help Rose. You also could argue that he also had Type:Null/Silvally as another contingency plan since you can find it specifically in Rose tower. But it was probably still in development when Eternatus got out of control and that's why you only get it in post-game. It's also important to mention that the reunion with Leon in Rose Tower wasn't Rose's first attempt to convince Leon to participate in the plan (but the problem is that as the strongest trainer of galar, he was vital for his plan, so he HAD to take part in it). Quote from Rose: "Leon, we have discussed this a hundred times already. And you still fail to understand what's at stake? You, who are supposed to be our champion". In fact, Oleana's entire ambush to Leon on his way to the dinner with Hop and the player was their last attempt to get Leon's cooperation by his own will. To the point where Oleana makes everything in her power to delay your (and Hop's) arrival to the tower to gain as much time as she could for Rose to convince Leon, even if she herself had to battle againts the player to do it. At the end, this reunion failed (because he only got another "promise to help" from Leon because he still thought it was too dangerous) and this is the moment where Rose got dissapointed with Leon just like he did with Bede. But he still needed him for his plan, specially after the experiments required to re-energize Eternatus (the explosions you hear through the game each time you get near to hammerlocke and that Leon took care of). Because of this, Eternatus was already fully overloaded for Leon to fight (thanks to the wishing stars used to re-energize it, but this also made it harder to control, which is why the plan couldn't be delayed and required the cancellation of the championship match). Rose no longer trusted in Leon's promises to help with the plan and Leon thought the plan was too dangerous from the beginning. They both have a fundamental discrepancy about the risks worth taking. But again, in Rose's eyes the entire present and future of the region was quite literally cimented in the existence of the wishing stars. And that's definitely true, Galar was indeed highly dependent of the existence of wishing stars to be a functional society. So given the situation he needed to force Leon to cooperate (by letting Eternatus awakening in a way that Leon couldn't ignore: during the final match of the gym challenge). Quotes from Rose: " I think it's time to bring the darkest day. All for the sake of Galar. But I'm in a bit of a pickle. The energy released by the darkest day it's too much for us to contain." "I'm sorry it's come to this. But it's you who forced my hand, Leon. You refused to listen" "In order to solve the energy issue, we awakened Eternatus but we couldn't control it. The champion still came to aid me, even at the cost of abandoning the match. Indeed, just like a knight in shining armor coming to rescue a princess from a dragon". So, in summary, the experiments required to re-energize Eternatus caused his awakening to accelerate and their reunion in Rose Tower was Rose's last attempt to convince Leon to take part in the plan by his own will since Leon was vital for it. But he refused to take part in such a dangerous plan and this became the moment where he saw Leon just like he saw Bede, but he was still vital for the plan. And because of this, he made sure to force Leon to participate in it by letting Eternatus awakening happen in a way Leon couldn't ignore (during the final match of the gym challenge) and Leon had to participate just like he expected and just like his plan (that was based on the incomplete/inaccurate version of the legend of Galar) intended. By the way, Rose fights Hop and the player because as I said, he's not a bad guy. He was convinced on Leon's ability to take down Eternatus and Leon was indeed pretty strong. He literally weakened Eternatus enough to attempt the capture without using gigantamax (and this is a legendary pokemon that literally required two other legendary pokemon to be defeated). The reason he fought against the player and Hop was for stopping them from interfering but he also didn't want two kids getting in the middle of such a dangerous plan even if they were strong as well. But only you, the player, thanks to the fact that you went through the gym challenge, Sonia's research in the places related to the legend and to the discovery of the lost ancient tapestry with the missing part of the legend (that hinted the location of the relics necessary to summon the legendaries that protected Galar), discovered the actual cause of Eternatus defeat 3000 years ago that no one else knew. And with Hop's help you were able to summon the only ones that could actually defeat Eternatus (Zacian and Zamazenta), just like the two kings (ancestors of Swordward and Shieldbert) did in the past and saved the region (while also ensuring the future of Galar with the wishing stars being scattered once again through the region). Side note: Team Yell was indeed never meant to be the evil team. The plot twist with Team Yell is that they were the citizens and gym trainers from Spikemuth that created "Team Yell" as a facade to support Marnie, the person they put their hopes on to bring back life to their town. They only did silly morally grey things (like "helping dreadnaw to cross the road" and "helping silicobra sleep well") in an attemp to delay the other gym challengers and that way stop them for making it in time to complete the gym challenge. In fact, in the silicobra scene you can see that they allow normal citizens to pass normally but not the gym challengers. They also wanted the bike from the doctor npc to chase them around and making them all tired. However, they indeed ended up something slightly villainous: After they saw that even ,with all their interference the gym challengers (and specially you, the player) still managed to get to spikemuth, they panicked and that's when they did the only real "illegal" thing againts them (by blocking the entrance to spikemuth to completely stop them from having a battle againts Piers). When Marnie found out about this, she called them out and she even let the player go ahead and battle Piers before her as an apology. At the end, she participated in the finals and lost but still was able to make the public cheer for her battles which inspired her to take the role of gym leader and that way bring back life to spikemuth. Sorry for the ridiculously long comment. I tend to write a lot sometimes. But I hope this helps to understand Rose's plan with Leon and the darkest day and why he did what he did.

[@neodica5967]

I think the main problem with Rose's overall story is how so many of the important details are only given to us after reaching Wyndon. The player doesn't get any time to process the information, so I'm not surprised that most people just see Rose as a guy who recklessly started the apocalypse. We don't even know Eternatus's name until we reach the Energy Plant, so when Rose finally starts explaining his plan it just seems like he's making it up. It also doesn't help that, until this point, the focus of the game had been on the Gym Challenge rather than the Legendary plot. Character-wise, this plan is also a huge mess. Though Rose is consistently shown to care for the well-being of Galar, he tells Leon that, "a millenium from now! The people of Galar today will no longer even exist. What Galar wants today hardly matters!" It ironically makes him look extremely short-sighted because if he destroys the Galar region now, there won't be a future generation _to_ save. And while the Darkest Day is common knowledge, the details of how it was solved are a mystery which is why Sonia decides to research it in the first place. So with that in mind, it seems that Rose didn't even consider that information potentially relevant which makes his plan feel even more reckless. I don't want to say that subtle storytelling is a bad thing, but in this case the game just doesn't give us enough explicit information or time to understand what's going on.

[@giboit.]

@@neodica5967 But that's not true, you get info about it way before that happens. From the beginning you learn that he clearly loves the Galar region. And Rose literally openly talks about his plan with Bede in front of you, the player, and even gives you explanation about it afterwards: Quotes from Rose and Bede: Bede:" If I gather enough wishing stars, that'll help you to solve the problem that has been bothering you, right Mr. Chairman? " Rose: "Oh, it's not just about me. It's for the future of the whole Galar region. And we'll need more than just wishing stars. We'll need a powerful pokemon trainer too. Someone like the champion." Bede: "With all due respect sir, I was able to show Hop, one of the champion endorsed trainers just how outclassed he was. I´m sure I'll be able to defeat the champion. No, I WILL defeat the champion." Rose: "That's the spirit. It takes healthy competition to really keep the gym challenge energized". Then Oleana interrupts to talk to Bede and this is when Bede learns from Oleana about the wishing stars near the mural and ask her to lend Rose's Copperajah (without her knowing his intentions and making Rose disappointment in his actions even worse for using HIS pokemon to destroy a monument of Galar). And after this Rose personally gives you, the player, literally an entire explanation about why the wishing stars are so important in Galar, explaining how the energy from the wishing stars is transformed and used literally for everything in the region (and this was what helped him to turn the region into a metropolis in a really short period of time. Less than 20 years ago by the way). That's how useful the wishing stars are. And after this, he even suggest you to go check the Hammerlocke Vault, where the ancient tapestries with the incomplete/inacurate version of the legend of Galar, which is obviously related to the darkest day (the one that he was using for his plan and that was considered common knowledge in the region). And this isn't the only moment where you actually get info to help you figure out the true identity of the darkest day. Not only you hear explosions every time you get near Hammerlock (because that's where Eternatus is hidden). Pretty much every single area in mainland Galar that you visit with Sonia has some sort of connection to the legend of Galar. The teleported forest with the shrine in Postwick where you saw the legendaries, the statue of the hero in motostoke, the giant gmax toxtricity geoglypht in turfield, the toxtricity statues in Hulbury, the hammerlock vault with the ancient tapestries in Hammerlock, the statues of the sword and shield legendaries in stow-on-side, the hero bath and the ancient lost tapestry in Circhester etc. They're all tied to it. And Sonia even asks you what you think all of it means in pretty much every opportunity. Reaching the conclusion about the darkest day being a powerful pokemon and that the actual heroes that stopped it were in reality two legendary pokemon. You definitely get A LOT of info way before your arrival to Wyndon. As I mentioned, Bede was Rose's plan B in case the Leon refused to take part on the plan. But Rose cut his connection with Bede after what happened with the mural for considering him unreliable due to his actions against Galar. Making even more vital for Leon to take part on the plan, specially after the experiments required to re-energize Eternatus that made it even harder to contain (as I previously mentioned) and this is why the plan couldn't be delayed. Which is also why (with Oleana's help) they prepared the ambush to Leon to have the last attempt to convince him to participate in the plan despite their fundamental discrepancy over the risks. And when this last attempt failed, he also got dissapointed with Leon (just like he did with Bede) but he still needed his help so he let the darkest day happen in a way Leon couldn't ignore, during the final match of the gym challenge. The story actually gives you many scenes explaining the importance of the wishing stars, the importance of Leon, the importance of the legend of galar (along with it's inconsistencies), about Rose's plan and about the darkest day in general throughout the entire game.

[@neodica5967]

@@giboit. Rose _is_ open about harnessing the power of Wishing Stars, but it's not like he tells us how he plans to use the ones that Bede is collecting. Based on his explanation of how the Power Plant works, I feel like the player is just meant to assume that they'll be burned like coal or something, not fed to an ancient space dragon. It makes sense that he wouldn't divulge this specific information to a random kid, but because of that I don't think "openly talking about Wishing Stars" counts as an obvious indication of his plans, except in retrospect. Like, I'm not even sure if Bede knows what Rose's plan is because he merely refers to the energy crisis as "the problem". As for Sonia, she mainly investigates the identity of the hero, not the Darkest Day. She discovers that the hero was actually 2 Pokemon, but at no point does she suspect that the Darkest Day is a Pokemon itself. She only ever refers to it as an event where dark clouds covered the sky and caused Pokemon to Dynamax. Oleana is the first person to mention Eternatus by name and explains that "Apparently, the energy emitted from its body is what causes Dynamaxing," but she only tells us this _right when we're about to fight Eternatus_. This feels like relevant information that should've been made explicit through Sonia's research rather than through Oleana right before the climax. Again, the problem isn't so much that Rose's plan makes 0 sense, it's more that the way the information is conveyed to the player isn't very clear. The explosions, for example, happen completely offscreen. It's obviously bad and will probably factor into the climax, but we don't fully understand its significance in the moment because we're not directly involved in the action. Instead we're just told to move onto the next gym as if it's not important, and because Macro Cosmos isn't a threat until the end of the game, there really isn't a reason for us to think about it once the explosions are over. This is in contrast to most Pokemon games which make it basically impossible to miss the important details because they're constantly reinforced through the player's encounters with the evil team. And finally, despite the details of the Darkest Day being so mysterious, Rose learned of Eternatus's existence and its connection to Dynamax, found it, and contained it. Yet somehow, he missed the fact that the hero's sword and shield were Pokemon as well? I understand that this is obvious information to the player because we've been following Sonia's research, but how did Rose learn about Eternatus if not through his own extensive research? It's just baffling to me that he when he found out the black stormcloud was actually a Pokemon, it didn't cross his mind that the rest of the story might be inaccurate as well, and that maybe he shouldn't be basing his entire plan on this false historical account.

[@olafmikoaj3121]

​@@neodica5967In the begining he didn't know that Darkest Day was in fact a pokemon. It made even more sense that the Hero defeated a pokemon rather than stopping some natural cataclism. If only he knew about legendary dogs being Sword and Shield in the legend then he would execute the plan differently.

[@giboit.]

@@neodica5967 Rose openly talks about how the power plant works to show you just how useful the wishing stars are, but that´s not the part that tells you about his plan but rather the scene before that between him and Bede. In that scene is very clear that Rose has another plan for the wishing stars. One that very clearly involves a very strong trainer. It´s very likely that Bede was keeping the secret just as much a Rose did (specially since they were in public place, hence why he refers to it as "the problem") and even if he wasn´t aware of the full extend of Rose´s plan it was very clear that Rose was expecting either Bede or Leon to participate in it and for them to be the last trainers standing in the gym challenge by the end. You can even see Leon looking for info right at the beginning of the game: Quote from Sonia: "What is it today, Leon? Looking for info on another never-before-seen, superstrong Pokémon? I wish you'd stop with these outlandish requests." Rose also tells you to go visit the ancient tapestries precisely because what Rose wanted to do had connections to the origin of the wishing stars. And no, Sonia was definitely investigating the darkest day and the origin of the mysterious pokemon that the player and Hop witnessed in the Postwick forest. Not just the identity of the hero. There´s a lot of lines that prove that was the case. Quotes from Sonia: "Hop, is it true you really met some Pokémon you didn't recognize? Is there anything more you can tell me about it?" "A strange Pokémon in the Slumbering Weald... I don't know... I've got an uneasy feeling for some reason..." "Ah…Never you mind that! Nothing to worry yourselves over! Besides, I'd been quite curious about that Pokémon you two met in the forest. I'd been thinking I should look into it, so the timing works out fine!""If I discover something really huge, then maybe even Gran'll admit I've got some talent!" "Long ago...a great black storm covered the Galar region. People called it “the Darkest Day.” The land was assaulted by gigantic Pokémon...but they were defeated by a single young hero bearing a sword and shield. The statue here is meant to depict the young hero of that legend. We still don't understand what kind of sword and shield the hero actually had. And what this “black storm” is supposed to be is just another mystery... Whatever it was, it blotted out the skies all across Galar. I suppose that tracks with it being called the Darkest Day, but still..." "I had you come 'cause I wanted to hear what you thought." "So, that geoglyph... What do you think of it?" The Darkest Day? :"Right perceptive of you. Especially since the portion depicting the black storm has mostly disappeared." Dynamax? :"Seems likely... It certainly looks like a gigantic Pokémon. I suppose people three thousand years ago could've just imagined this, but it looks too similar to Dynamax. It can't just be coincidence." But what was that black storm they called “the Darkest Day”? What connection does it have to Dynamax?" "Guess I'm the lucky lady who'll be looking into that... Gran sure gives me a lot to do." "Thanks for letting me bounce some ideas off you. I think I've got some theories now. I'm going to research the tapestries a tad more. "Seems like at some point in history the sword and shield were combined with the two actual Pokémon and treated as the same thing... But then what? They just faded from history?" "Two young heroes... The sword and shield were actually Pokémon... But why would the truth of these ruins be hidden when their stories were depicted in artwork?" With your help, I really feel like we made a big discovery here. And all of this is from way before the player finds Chairman Rose talking with Bede I remind you. And even later on you have lines like this: The Hero's Bath... They say this is where the two heroes came to sooth their wounds after the battle to bring down that EVIL PRESENCE, long ago." And you can clearly tell that something is going on in the power plan because the explosions only happen when you´re near Hammerlock and that such explosions caused some pokemon to Dynamax (they even show you an online report of Leon taking down a dynamax Perserkerr). Which is VERY suspicious because it also happens near the town that is known for not being able to use dynamax. Which means that something in hammerlock is causing that to happen. The story of the darkest day was considered pretty much common knowlegde in the region for over 3000 years. It was only through Sonia´s investigation (and her discovery of the ancient statues and the lost ancient tapestry that she was able to discover the truth). It made sense for Rose to think that if the darkest day was a pokemon "the hero" was a strong pokemon trainer that defeated it, not some natural phenomenon. He did everything he possibly could given the information that he (and everyone else in the region) had.

[@madnessarcade7447]

Rose wanted to solve it now and activate it early so that it doesn’t happen later

[@extremmefan7305]

18:34 He literally could not. Reshiram and Zekrom only awakens to people with strong beliefs in their truth or ideals respectively, and thus needed mostly "unfiltered" people to be chosen; N's purity of heart and the protag's "blank slate" nature both fitting that. Ghetsis, however, is prepared to take down not just Reshiram/Zekrom, but N's entire team, having a whole team specifically prepared just in case you lose to him; a team specifically made to counter N's, with a very powerful Hydreigon (a pseudo-legendary) at the lead to take down Reshiram/Zekrom specifically, in order to take them by force if anything (as we see him have them in USUM despite there being no way they would've awakened for him). And I think N's loss is the catalyst for Ghetsis revealing his plans. Because N having lost means Ghetsis can claim to the rest of the team that N lost the title in battle and has deserted them, thus taking it for himself (probably convincing them with a façade of grief since he originally set N up as the king) while still keeping most of the army as N would basically be pulling a Penny in that he wouldn't be telling anyone what *actually* happened, thus leaving the rest of BW1's Team Plasma entirely oblivious and still believing that they'd be "liberating" Pokémon until N decides to actually come back and confront them (and even then it's not unlikely that he'd be branded a... deserter at least, or a traitor at worst, by them).

[@ExecutiveSonda]

Good plans: Team Rocket and Team Plasma Stupid plans: Aqua/Magma, Galactic, Neo Plasma, Flare, Aether Foundation, Macro Cosmo Literal punks: Skull, Yell Glorified boss rush: Rainbow Rocket

[@anusaukko6792]

Tbf Team Galactic was literally just a brainwashed cult where everyone (ironically enough considering the themes of the game) followed Cyrus without question like he were a god, and Cryus' goal was always something deeply personal that no human who hasn't experienced what he presumably has can relate to. It's not like Aqua or Magma where everyone thought they were doing the right thing and were just stupid, Galactic members were completely fucked in the head. Cyrus wanting to create a world without emotion is likely related to some kind of trauma he suffered in his formative years that, in typical Pokemon fashion, we were never told anything about except just hinted at in his character and motivations. Anyways all of this yapping just to say that Cyrus objectively had a good PLAN (blowing up the lakes, forging the red chain, binding the legendaries etc) since he's the only villain who technically won if Giratina didn't have a change of heart after Volo, and because in the end he still succeeded in his goal of being in a world without spirit and emotion. His MOTIVATIONS on the other hand are just subjective.

[@coughfee1416]

The first 6 gens had actual world ending organisations that do SCP level work. The Aether Foundation is similar to the first 6 gens but they are bit cooler and slightly more calm minded. Team Skull are just a bunch of hooligans doing random stuff. So Gen 7 technically had two evil teams. In gen 8 we have drum roll sports fans; very cool ;P We went from SCP level stuff to SCP level stuff with a bunch of hooligans to SPORTS FANS? They should rename it to something else now as they can't be called and evil team. Even Team Skull is a nuisance so they can kinda keep a "Quater of a Quater-Evil" team. Gen 8 and Gen 9 should probably make them a new type of villainize team that are just rivalling you. Also cool vid

[@nurventilatoren]

Well, if you take whats happening in Pokemon Ruby literally, Maxie's plan makes the sun brighter and hotter (unintentionally or not). If its that what is happening, his plan would backfire spectacularly. First, it would slowly become much warmer with wildfires happening all over the world and polar ice caps melting. Most places would become too hot to sustain human life. After that a lot of water would evaporate and form thick clouds and storms humanity has never seen before. A lot of plants would die and most of the stored CO2 in oceans and plant life would be set free. Earth would become much hotter faster. Most of all water would stay in the atmosphere. No or very little water on the earths surface would slowly but surely stop plate tectonics. If that happens, the dynamo effect that creates our magnetic field would probably disappear too, making walking on the surface even more deadly. Solar radiation and winds would relatively quickly erode our Ozonelayer and atmosphere. Most evaporated water would be blown off into space soon after. By then, all humans and most, if not all Pokemon would've been driven to extinction. No plate tectonics would lessen volcanism on earth in the short term, but it will create massive volcanic explosions in the long term, probably creating a Venus-like atmosphere. In short, his plan would make our planet completely uninhabitable.

[@gustavolopes5094]

Dude, presentation is on point, but your research is severely lacking. There are big flaws and/or misunderstandings in basically every section of the video. Some of which (like the Team Galactic "nuke" plan) vould be solved with a single google search. I understand you were doing it out of your gut, but you don't need to be any kind of specialist to google some of your doubts beforehand.

[@clonetrooper2003]

GOOD VIDEO BUT I NEED POKEMON SWORD AND SHIELD VISUAL NOVEL PLEEEEEASE 😢

[@TamValleyProductions]

🤔

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@TamValleyProductions pllzzzzzzzzzzzz

[@neodica5967]

@@TamValleyProductions I think they mean like the one you did for XY

[@andrewharris1344]

I’m first finally

[@TamValleyProductions]

Vibes