Tanks Chats

In this episode of Tank Chats, David Willey discusses the history of the M-50 version of the Sherman. With thanks to Eden Camp, who showed the M-50 at TANKFEST. www.edencamp.co.uk/
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00:00 | Intro
00:22 | History & Development
04:00 | Production
06:30 | Service & Upgrades
#tankmuseum #tankchats #DavidWilley #M50Sherman #M50

[@thetankmuseum]

Hello Tank Nuts, what do you all think of David Willey's latest Tank Chat?

[@davidmenjivar8890]

David forgot to wear his super cool sunglasses 🕶 😎

[@amcconnell6730]

Interesting chat. Why is it that you don't move the turrets on your tank days? :) Every time you see the tanks driving about, you never swing the turrets about.

[@dbzfanexwarbrady]

@@amcconnell6730 minimise Wear and tare im guessing

[@dbzfanexwarbrady]

very nice

[@historyismetal2187]

It's beast, just like The Beast (1988)

[@Masada1911]

It’s kind of mental that this Sherman variant was just at the tail end of its service when Abrams came along.

[@rvail136]

They are still in service with Chile using a very high velocity 60mm gun...80 years after they entered service...

[@JamesCalbraith]

@@rvail136 I think they've all been replaced by Leopards by now

[@janvandeven906]

@@rvail136 Till 2006 so not anymore

[@Damien_N]

A German gun, improved by the French. Installed on an American tank, and used by the Israelis and later the Lebanese, (and now in this example’s case, living in the UK) - a real multinational effort.

[@Paciat]

Multinational effort? More like multinational business.

[@korbell1089]

Don't forget that it also went for round 2 against the Pz 4 during the 6 day war.

[@HM2SGT]

@@korbell1089 Ate T55s for lunch it did

[@Castor586]

Normally I'd say that adding a bigger gun is the most Murican thing I can think of and I'm so proud of everyone, but the British did it first with the Sherman Firefly... I still love it though lol

[@CS-zn6pp]

@@korbell1089 pz4, stuG and a couple of jagdpanzer4s.

[@carlinglin7289]

It's a tribute to the original designers of the Sherman that they built a vehicle that could undergo so many upgrades.

[@wyntr1903]

@Mr Rodgers same can be said of the T34 (especially), Cromwells, Panzers, etc. See Lazer pig's video aptly titled the t34 is not as good as you think.

[@pyro1047]

@Mr Rodgers That myths been disproved in the last decade by reviewing historical archives. Once the large hatch and sponsonless ammo Sherman's came out, the M4 had one of, if not the highest survival rates of any tank in WWII. Statistically a US tanker was more likely to die outside his tank than in it.

[@insomniacbritgaming1632]

@@wyntr1903 Cromwells not so much, the issue fhe Cromwell had was it could drown the crew if the crew didn't shoot holes into the floor 🤣😂

[@kistler1994]

@Mr Rodgers 3rd Armoured Division would disagree with you. Some crews got 3 or 4 vehicles because the crews survived to fight another day.

[@damianm-nordhorn116]

@Mr Rodgers Next time, please do your research before making bold statements. We're in the information age, (almost) everybody can/could fact check themselves. Cheers from the home of the overengineered Panzers ;)

[@lucitribal]

It's amazing to see how the Sherman kept going and being improved after the war

[@Orbit_Corona]

It looks great with the improved main gun & tracks/suspension. Also I noticed improved armour in front of the driver and coaxial.

[@Zorro9129]

There were a lot of them lying around, and if you don't have anything better then waste not want not.

[@kyle857]

@@Zorro9129 Just the fact that they still ran well with minimal work and were viable shows what a great tank it was.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

After 1967 the M50 underwent many mods with totally different missions. Remove the turret put in a mortar, apc and engineering. They also swapped gas for diesel.

[@darnit1944]

@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer The Israelis sure love upgrading old tanks back in the day. But not a surprise since they are constantly under threat of annihilation so they need every technological advantage they could get

[@mikewysko2268]

M50 & M51 making the best of WWII left overs. From what I have read these upgraded Shermans did quite well in combat.

[@Zorro9129]

When you're fighting Arabs it's pretty hard to be bad at combat.

[@colbeausabre8842]

The biggest reason for the effectiveness of the Israeli Shermans was the quality of their crews, The Tank Corps, along with the Airborne and Air Force, is the elite of the IDF and attracts some of the highest quality recruits. They are then put through rigorous training to produce some of the best tankers in the world. The Arabs, with the exception of the Jordaniians (Who inherited the standards of the British trained and officered Arab Legion) came nowhere close. As has been proven so many times in history, a well trained soldier, even armed with inferior weapons, will beat the ill trained one

[@cjwrench07]

@@colbeausabre8842 the circumstances also matter. Fighting in a foreign land for politics is a lot less motivating, compared to say fighting for the lives of the women&children right behind the frontlines. A modern day example is Ukraine. The terror strikes against civilian infrastructure, can be at least partially attributed to the, galvanizing of their entire society to resist the occupation & invasion.

[@bebo4374]

Beausabre. See Ukraine.

[@johnserrano9689]

@@colbeausabre8842 man....the fact has flown way over your head lol As we all know, yeah...you're correct, as crews must know how to properly utilize any and all available equipment. But the fact remains the same the m50-51 we're extremely CAPABLE and demonstrated their capability in devastating fashion. They did so in the hands of quality, qualified and driven crew's. 2 equal tanks facing off it is the crew and sheer luck which determines the victor, but the tank with an extremely accurate cannon with excellent penetration can sit back and snipe. The M50-51 gave the crews a huge advantage just as much as the crews were able to COMPLETELY squeeze everything out of the m50's capabilities

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

The IDF really is both a modeler's wet dream and a modeler's nightmare. All those modifications and different variants make it a nightmare to research. But all those mods also look cool as hell. Also the Israeli Shermans prove that it wasn't a hunk as junk as some keep parroting but a really good tank.

[@outerventure6069]

It's amazing how well that m50 crew issued shirt blends with the tank

[@bullettube9863]

Simply amazing that a tank first designed and built in 1942 would still be in service in the 1980s! Just goes to show you what a good design the original was.

[@darnit1944]

As a Sherman enjoyer, it is nice to see upgraded beyond its original capability Shermans like M-50, M-51, and Chilean M-60. But i think they upgraded the Shermans mostly because said nations cant afford more modern tank

[@bullettube9863]

@@darnit1944 It help[s not having to face an enemy with more modern tanks! The US always had to build tanks that could equal or out match Russian tanks.

[@brennanleadbetter9708]

From fighting Tigers, Panthers, Pz.IVs, Stugs, etc in WW2, to fighting T-34s in Korea, to facing T-54/55s and T-62s in the Israeli-Arab Wars, the Sherman proved itself to be a reliable workhorse that gets the job done.

[@johnnyzippo7109]

Once again , nothing but the absolute best from the great folks at “The Tank Museum” , very much appreciated.

[@devonopdendries7722]

I don't have time to explain the science in the comment section, but the the M50 Sherman is the most "tank" looking tank ever created.

[@jonnyc429]

I know what you mean. I get a similar feeling from the leopard 1. Somua S35 one of the least - looks like a jelly mould

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

The Centurion is that tank for me.

[@nvelsen1975]

False statement. The Bob Semple tank is the best looking tank.

[@devonopdendries7722]

@@nvelsen1975 I didn't say best looking tank, I said the most "tank" looking tank. The Bob Semple tank is the most Vintage Hipster Food Truck looking tank 😆

[@Grover91]

Centurion for me. Especially the later marks with the L7. 👍

[@harryb8945]

Amazing to see a tank you worked on appear on the channel.

[@dylanmilne6683]

What was the most challenging issue in bringing the Sherman up to spec? Beautifully restored tank. Props!

[@barrymerchant3320]

I agree, I did a very small amount of work on this vehicle at the very beginning of its restoration

[@Sawyersmaple]

The Sherman is a classic, the fact that it continued to see service is a testament to how great a tank it is. Great piece of USA engineering and fascinating to see what the Israelis were able to achieve with it.

[@rvail136]

It's still in service with Chile using a very high velocity 60mm gun (think that's the weapon).

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

Just the great numbers produced would make it popular around the world. But you are correct. They were well built with robust electrical wiring and reliable drive trains. They could operate anywhere around the world.

[@cjwrench07]

@@jollyjohnthepirate3168 it’s not just numbers & a horde of parts. As the Soviet-built T-34-85s lacked the same ultra-long service life, even with ample parts and simplicity. Which was partially due to the horrid crew conditions & terrible situational awareness; but mostly the stupidly over hardened armour plate(600 instead of the standard 300) which was known to spall even from smaller sachel charges.

[@insomniacbritgaming1632]

The Panther, T-34, IS-2 saw service after WW2

[@corsairsofnarshaddaa]

@@insomniacbritgaming1632 From the 5 min I spent researching: Panther - 1954 T-34 - Some still in use (80+ years after introduction) 😳 IS-2 - 1990's? May still be in use in Cuba It's an interesting what-if to think about if the Axis had won WW2 and instead of tens of thousands of Shermans and T-34s left over, there were equally as many Panthers and Tigers. Would they have lasted as long? I doubt it.

[@c.j.zographos3713]

Interesting to see a chat on a post-wat variant of a WW2 classic.

[@gusgone4527]

Please do a tank chat on the Centurion in Israeli service.

[@leepalmer1210]

It speaks a lot to the greatness of a design that it can remain effective and durable for so long.

[@abitofapickle6255]

The M4 Sherman, a tank too angry to die.

[@burner8959]

As someone who grew up near Chester, PA, thank you for that picture of the 50,000th vehicle.

[@genek8630]

I also grew up in Chester, Pa., and right down the road was Baldwin Locomotive, in Eddystone where that tank may have come from.The tank pictured may be an M4 dry, small hatch, with direct vision BLW 42-03, a hull that Baldwin produced, in the third quarter of 1942. The turret appears to be one of the D50878's without the pistol port.

[@fuferito]

07:56 Excellent job explaining the unusual colour scheme and Lebanese flag for this featured tank. Fascinating overall presentation.

[@jeffkeith637]

I have a bicycle under the tarpaulin in my backyard. David Willey has a Sherman. Que sera sera.

[@stevenbrown8857]

Superb, David is an excellent presenter

[@tacticalmanatee]

I wish more data was available about the very late Shermans used by Chile (and I think a few other places) using the OTO Melara/IMI 60mm HVMS gun. It's a really fascinating and unusual gun and a very cool conversion (supposedly it's sabot had penetration similar to the L7 105mm gun's sabot round).

[@MFitz12]

The Chilean Sherman's were just standard M50's with Cummins diesel, delivered without armament. The 60mm HVMS (by this time the IMI and OTO projects had split and each developed their own gun and ammo) was installed because it was available and would fit without much bother, not because of any particular technical merits. It fired APFSDS-T and HE rounds. The manufacturer claimed the APFSDS-T would penetrate the front of a T-55 out to almost 2,000 meters. The L7 with equivalent ammo should do the same at 3,000 meters. Given the small size of the projectile I have no idea how lethal it would be at that range or how they were defining "penetration". 1,500 meters seems more reasonable against homogenous heavy armor. Only Chile bought the IMI gun. Nobody bought the OTO gun. The best retrofit for this gun IMHO was the M24 light tank, which the Chilean's did along with the Sherman purchase. The 75mm was long past its prime with ammunition aging and in decreasing supply. The only other option at the time was the French 90mm F1 which was becoming far from ideal as an anti-armor weapon by the 1980's. With the increasing armor levels of modern IFV's - where frontal protection against 30x165 APDS now seems to be the minimum standard - and with increasing desire to be able to fire a useful HE round I am surprised the 60mm has not seen renewed interest. The IFV market seems to have been the original target but the gun was about 3 decades early.

[@brucelamberton8819]

The one in Chilean service at 9:50 looks like it is fitted with the 60mm HVMS

[@johnnyzippo7109]

There is just something inspirational about the M-50 Sherman . The fusion of a Cummins diesel re-power , the high velocity 75 mm gun , Widened track , oof , again a Cummins Diesel power plant , just phenomenal , it sparks the mind.

[@hhale]

The bit about the gun from the AMX-13 essentially being the French version of a WWII German 75mm is news me, and quite interesting.

[@colbeausabre8842]

The French had a couple of battalions of Panthers after World War Twice - until they ran out of spare parts (for some odd reason, they were no longer being manufactured)

[@markwilliams2620]

Watch Panther Paradox by Lazerpig. The French didn't just run out of spare parts, it was also the frequency of the need for repairs. A few decades ago I read a book on German armour. One historian pointed out that had the Germans launched the invasion of France with Panthers and Tigers the invasion would have failed. While awesome kit, few of them would of made all the way to the Meuse via the Ardennes without breaking down.

[@bebo4374]

They were no longer being manufactured because the Japanese lost the war.

[@davidcox3076]

@@markwilliams2620 Good points. Both tanks had their strengths but the reliability wasn't there. You have to give credit to the French that even when they stopped using the Panthers they realized it was worth keeping the gun.

[@sangomasmith]

It's not really, though: different barrel length, shells and cartridges.

[@snorman8041]

Love the m50 thank you for this video

[@obsidianjane4413]

I hope Gaijin sees this video and fleshed out the War Thunder low-tier Israeli tree. Oh and adds that baby blue paint scheme!

[@frostedbutts4340]

Nah they'll just add another 7 magachs lol

[@jayklink851]

I was thinking the same thing before I read your comment lol

[@DD-mp1kl]

i was disappointed that they didn’t add the sherman with the 60mm hvms cannon. maybe someday.

[@Brandon_J]

This is awesome. I went to Eden camp a few years ago and saw them working on this out in the open. No idea it would end up here! Previously had a desert camouflage.

[@dylanmilne6683]

Love what Eden camp have done with this post war classic

[@TheAtomicCARROT1000]

Managed to see it running there the other month. Beautifully cared for machine

[@sadwingsraging3044]

Say what you will but that is a tidy piece of kit and it looks quite impressive with all those neatly installed upgrades. Got a good stance.

[@anothersucker-Youcantfixstupid]

These are always gold. Well done David.

[@lappin6482]

awesome looking with that upgraded gun

[@darnit1944]

You should see the Israeli second upgrade, the M-51 with shortened French CN-105 F1 105mm used in the AMX-30 And the Chilean M60 with 60mm HVG firing APFSDS rounds. It's very cool

[@bebo4374]

Darren. Both were in the video.

[@joshhemingwaythewlismetcalfe96]

I’ve seen that tank from Eden camp. It’s a good looking tank.

[@KMac329]

Fascinating tank history. I never heard of this variation of the venerable Sherman before, or knew of the Sherman in any form being in service after 1945. Reminds me of the Syrians using the Panzer Mk. IV in the Six Day War of 1967.

[@kablanetkablanet989]

This tank was seriously improved by the Israelis, who used it to defeat the most modern Soviet tanks in the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War - it only left the service in the IDF in the early 1980s.

[@anthonysantiago1999]

Amazing how the M-4 Transformed thru the years and was still operational in one form or another since the 80's..

[@MaxTSanches]

It shows that any tank is better than no tank. As with many other WWII tanks of note they were upgraded to far beyond what there original designers imagined.

[@craigphillips792]

Awesome as always!! Keep ‘em coming!!!

[@craftycrabhobby5457]

Great show, can always learn much from you guys. I recommend you to walk around the tank while talking, this way some of the armor models can not only learn stuff about this tanks, but can also watch more walk around videos that can help armor modelers model better armor kits.

[@danielburgess7785]

Half Lego, half Energizer Bunny; Swap a part here and a gun there and it just kept going and going.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

M50, seldom mentioned in history

[@joesanchez979]

Thanks for the all the great videos✌️

[@joesanchez979]

Great insight on this great sherman

[@birdsoup777]

I love Tank Chats. Thank you for the channel.

[@patrickshanley4466]

Another outstanding video, keep them coming

[@johnasti7429]

Great commentary... Totally enjoyed it...

[@philmuskett265]

Very interesting. You just can't keep a good Sherman down!!!

[@TheGantus]

Great as Always. 👍🏻🖖🏻

[@adrianshaingurten6218]

They did a great job

[@damright]

Nice saw this at eden camp when it was in workshop... impressive to stand near

[@F76986jhg]

Very Cool Tank Mbt, So beautiful vehicle.

[@christopherseivard8925]

I don’t have facts to support it, but my old friends often remarked on the significance of the use of tank transporters. It seems vehicles were often “ burned up “ after being driven across the desert! I am a fan of the AMX turret

[@ohasis8331]

That was bloody interesting.

[@thomasembleton1467]

My Local museum hope they can sort the crocodile they have out I’d love to see her running.

[@skylargray455]

There's no doubt the Sherman is the best and most versatile tank ever designed during the Second World War

[@howardamey7228]

Old warriors never die. The just fade away. Excellent story on a venerable and rugged old war horse.

[@jamesripley9460]

Thanks!

[@amata415]

Beautiful tank!

[@jeffreyherbert91]

Excellent as always......you shouldn't need ask really......cant wait for this years christmas advert!!

[@tasman006]

Great video about one of the best tanks of WW2 and its upgrade. Great bit of historical knowledge I didn't know thank you about the French supplying arms to Isreal because of Eygypt giving arms to Algerian rebels a French colony.

[@Ace0Spades17]

Now you’ve mentioned the AMX. Now we’re just waiting on an episode of one of my favorite tanks

[@hiltibrant1976]

Really wondering how these kinds of gun upgrades impacted crew ergonomics inside the turret. I understand they added a new front section to cradle the fun fortier forward, but still can't these guns, which presumably had bigger breaches as well as longer recoil and/or larger recoil absorbers, leaving too much room for the turret crews

[@darnit1944]

Apparently due to the development in cannon technology, the 75mm gun actually have smaller breech than the 17 pdr gun. So the crew ergonomic is not that bad

[@obsidianjane4413]

What Darren said. What really took up a lot of space inside was the much bigger ammunition rounds. Esp. the 105mm.

[@roadsweeper1]

I wasnt aware the Sherman stayed in service for that length of time. Obviously heavily upgraded, and ignoring the lack of armour, more a first shot kill principle, make sure you kill your enemy before he can kill you. Interesting :)

[@simonreij6668]

so good thankyou

[@StupidBlokeStupidVideos]

Must be one of the best looking tanks ever made, looks like it came straight out of a cartoon.

[@alfnoakes392]

Just what I was thinking ... this is what an Anime tank would look like.

[@rohmarts]

Our little boy grew up to be quite an impressive man.

[@dominicwroblewski5832]

As far as I know the M4A4 came with the Chrysler multi bank engine not the radial. I have seen photos of Israeli M50 tanks based on the M4A1 model which did have the radial engine.

[@ddraig1957]

I'm glad you spotted that. I was thinking of making that comment.

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

M4 Continental R-975 radial engine M4A1 Continental radial engine M4A2 Diesel-powered with General Motors Twin G-41 Engine M4A3 Ford GAA V-8 engine M4A4 Chrysler A57 multibank

[@colbeausabre8842]

@@princeofcupspoc9073 Thing is, the Israelis converted all their Shermans to the Continental radial, no matter what had originally powered them, before that was replaced by a Cummins V8 diesel

[@Splodge542]

Great tank chat from the guvna.

[@JeffBilkins]

When you unlock all the upgrades for your stock Sherman.

[@lzappa9109]

11/10! Everytime.

[@corpnut2906]

love the sherman and the M50/51 variants. I was lucky and got to see the M50 that Battlefield Vegas has. It is a runner and shooter still and looks sharp.

[@robertstrong6798]

Wow a topic I knew nothing about very , very interesting

[@parker1ray]

One of my favorite movies is The Big Red One! I believe these were the Sherman variants used in that movie!

[@luciusvorenus9445]

M50 & M51 the Ultimate Sherman! Love the Sherman.

[@crapphone7744]

Heaven only knows how they shoe horned a long 75, much less a 105 into that turret. Desperation drives innovation.

[@monfortnicolas5448]

It was not much longer than the 76 M1 gun less than one meter and the breech was of similar size and so we're the cartridges even though bigger

[@notagooglesimp8722]

Lucky for them the Sherman was so modular.

[@MFitz12]

It wasn't. There was much cutting and welding involved.

[@sorrowmg278]

Automated captions called the Egyptian president NASA and I love that

[@edwardloomis887]

A tank built in tremendous quantities that can serve outside the western and Central European theater it was designed for with upgrades. Makes sense. I saw U.S. equipment designed in the 1940s and 1950s soldiering on in the western Pacific in the 1990s.

[@hddun]

I sure enjoy your tank chats Mr Willey. And and I hope you accept this compliment: I think you remind me of Michael Caine ... Lt. Col. J.O.E. Vandeleur (A Bridge Too Far)

[@herby4215]

Great tank

[@ianbell5611]

Thank you. Interesting political history

[@aprylrittenhouse4562]

Souped up hot rod Sherman's. Jezus that must've been a awesome tank to drive compared to what was used in normandy.

Very nice modification

[@christineshotton824]

I have this mental image of an Israeli military vehicle depot in the early 1950s with an odd assortment of anything they can get their hands on rolling in one end and Mad Max improvised combat vehicles rolling out the other.

[@ArmoredXJ]

Cool!

[@nicholasmoore423]

Very cool! Is there other Israeli tanks that you guys can review, like the Magach?

[@HerrZenki]

We need David Willey with the sunglasses!

[@the7observer]

I wish you guys could talk about the frankenstein sherman the SO-122

[@tedcopple101]

Eden Camps finest work. In Lebanese blue.

[@kellyhall6113]

I actually got to see the m-50 sherman at Eden camp in July with the same license plate

[@barrymerchant3320]

Its the same vehicle, this belongs to Eden Camp

[@MatoVuc]

The blue-ish colour does sort of blend into the cloudy sky, for what that's worth.

[@vernepavreal7296]

Great video again Was the armour thickness increased also was the engine bay expandedCheers

[@obsidianjane4413]

No. But it didn't really matter. At this time HEAT was in widespread use and could defeat any thickness of armor because composite and reactive armor hadn't been developed yet. This is why they were successful with just putting a big honking gun on it. Because the original aircraft radial engine took up so much room, the big Continental diesels fit fine.

[@GeneralLee131]

Everyone considered Sherman to be a bad tank, but they stood the test of time unlike any other WW2 design. Like the T-55 and its family, its hard to argue against 'keep it simple, stupid' with war machines. Cheap, reliable, and good enough for the job. Its funny, the US is now spending billions on a new easily transportable Light Tank, when it already created the perfect one 80 years ago.

[@frostedbutts4340]

Only idiots who get their 'knowledge' from video games considered the Sherman a bad tank lol. Bet the US and Allied infantry who could count on having numerous, reliable tank support loved them.

[@johnd5699]

Aware you only have the barrel on display but a tank chat on the Sturmtiger would still be interesting with Dave's perspectives.

[@colbeausabre8842]

The biggest reason for the effectiveness of the Israeli Shermans was the quality of their crews, The Tank Corps, along with the Airborne and Air Force , is the elite of the IDF and attracts some of the highest quality recruits. They are then put through rigorous training to produce some of the best tankers in the world. The Arabs, with the exception of the Jordaniians (Who inherited the standards of the British trained and officered Arab Legion) came nowhere close. As has been proven so many times in history, a well trained soldier, even armed with inferior weapons, will beat the ill trained one.

[@MFitz12]

The general incompetence of their enemies was probably a larger factor.

[@arunta5]

The Sherman had its faults but it could be modified and up-gunned like the Sherman Firefly. The Germans knew they were lethal and tried to knock them out first as that tank could even destroy a Tiger. It was a Firefly that knocked out the Tiger of Panzer Ace Michael Whitman by blowing the turrent completely off killing all the crew.

[@Tank10A]

Does the 75 50-CN have indirect sights so it can be used like artillery?

[@brutter602]

The Sherman M4A4 had the Chrysler 30 cylinder multi-bank engine and the Sherman M4 and M4A1 had the Continental 9 cylinder radial engine. Post war, the French did modify some of their M4A4 Sherman’s by retro fitting the Continental 9 cylinder radial engine instead of the Chrysler multi-bank engine.

[@SearTrip]

The French re-engined all their Sherman variants to a common engine after the war. I believe it was the radial. So it is possible that the Israelis got M4A4s with the radial engine from them.

[@sealove79able]

A great video. Did this tank have any improvements regarding its armour or fire control?This tank is really kosher.

[@colbeausabre8842]

No, there were no armor upgrades beyond what might have been modifying the turrets and adding new mantlets for the guns, Fire control was the same as WW2, experience and judgment

[@sealove79able]

@@colbeausabre8842 Thank you. How come they did not equip it with any IR fire control not even in the 1970's?

[@frostedbutts4340]

@@sealove79able By then they had access to much better tanks, so these would have been for training and deep reserve tanks. So not worth the cost.

[@sealove79able]

@@frostedbutts4340 Thank you.