Pre 64 Winchester - Does It Really Matter

[@turtlewolfpack6061]

I didn't know about the set screw, I would have mentioned the lack of paint on the reciever of the post 64. It was not a durable coating and I often see them blued and the reciever takes a plum color.

[@TargetSuite]

It's funny you mention plum color as the inside of the 71 version has a red tint.

[@garyK.45ACP]

The "plum color" is quite common in Model 1894s in the 2,700,000- 3,185,691 serial number range. These correlate to receivers made (but not necessarily assembled) from 1964-1968. The post-64 receivers used a "graphitic steel" casting that did not accept the Du-Lite 3-0 bluing process, used by Winchester at that time, without discoloration. The Du-lite process had been in use since 1940. This discoloration causes no functional problems and the receivers are perfectly functional and safe. It is not a matter of "durability" but simply a chemical reaction that caused the discoloration. Colors can range from a coppery tone to plum red. From 1968 to 1972 (until serial number 3,806,499) Winchester used a black chrome plating finish, sometimes the black chrome can be seen to "fleck off" and appear "freckled". Winchester went back to the Du-Lite Oxiblak in 1972 until Winchester production ended in 1981 (When the company was purchased by US Repeating Arms Co.). Rifles made by USRACO used 4144 steel alloy and would polish and blue normally. After they went back to the Du-Lite Oxiblak finish, they first iron plated the receivers so the metal would accept the finish better BUT, some of those still exhibit the "plum" color. Often times, when a rifle was re-blued the gunsmith would polish off the iron plating and attempt to reblue the rifle using a normal bluing process, this could also result in distorted colors. So check your serial numbers, guys... 1964-1968 2,700,000 - 3,185,691 Du-Lite 3-0 Process (plum color is common) 1968-1972 3,185,692 - 3,806,499 Black Chrome Plate (flecking is common) 1972-1981 3,806,500 - 5,024,957 Win Blue/Oxiblak (plum color not as common but still present in some rifles, especially if reblued)

[@TargetSuite]

@gary K Thank you for all that info. It explains why this 1971 model looks like some of the receiver "blueing" flaked off.

[@oldschool3484]

Except around the time of Angle eject. The recievers by the early 80s onward had machined recievers.

[@garyK.45ACP]

@@oldschool3484 Right, after Winchester was bought by USRACO (1981) they went to a forged 4144 steel alloy receiver which was machined. They take bluing in the normal manner.

[@vaportrail226]

My 94 is a 1954 chambered in .30-30. It was my grandpa's deer rifle. Now it's my deer rifle. I get sentimental every time I take it out.

[@TargetSuite]

As you should. Great guns with family history like yours are priceless.

[@johnalarcon5006]

Thats awesome never sell it !!!!!

[@hakes2]

I have a 40s model 94 that was my grandfather's, then my father's now mine and will be given to my grandboy

[@eddieeggleston6642]

Similar for me. May dad bought his new at a western auto store when he was 13. It's a 1951. Wonderful grayish patina and the wood is worn but absolutely rich as can be.

[@drippy31]

​@@hakes2same here. Cool stuff

[@anthonyb2334]

I just came across your video on the pre-post 64. 30 years ago I inherited a 1967 in 32 Winchester special from my dad. It is in excellent shape. It was his deer rifle and was always taken care of. But as some have said , not a very popular caliber . My father stated it was the only lever action Winchester the small sporting goods shop had, so he bought it. He never complained about the caliber. Before that he hunted with 12 gauge slugs. Thank you for a very good video

[@erickelley1937]

My model 1894, in 32 special was made in 1912 and is still dropping deer up here in Maine. Good comparision video!!

[@scallywag6768]

I have the same rifle in the same caliber but 1903 . Still shoots straight

[@TargetSuite]

What a treat it would be to go hunting with a 100+ year old rifle . . . in Maine of all places. Priceless!

[@hanknorris5642]

1913 manufacture here. Edit: actually 30/30.

[@terrypurcell7039]

1907 32 win special here in North Dakota

[@robertlivingston1634]

Love my 32 special, I'm 61 and it was my grandfather's. It's a straight shooter and it do nock deer down!

[@bradleycoffey7584]

After spending years of collecting pre Remington Marlins due to not liking the post 64s, I finally got to a point in my life that I purchased a collection that an elderly man was looking to liquidate. It was all lever guns built from 1889 up to 1932. I now have the bug...... The story behind Oliver Winchester s venture from smith and Wesson up to John Moses browning influence in these superb rifles intrigues me, and makes me appreciate the love they put into these great rifles. Change is not always good. Thank you so much for this video.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks for the comment! Wow! You went from just approaching the on-ramp to the fast lane in the blink of an eye. Congratulations! I'm definitely a Marlin fan, but not at the expense of my appreciation of all that historic "Winchester" stood for. And I don't know if you have watched many of my other videos, but in addition to this pre-64 '94, I have three current production Winchesters that are made by Miroku in Japan. Their quality meets or exceeds that of the best old guns. So as shooters, they are awesome, but they have zero "history".

[@bradleycoffey7584]

@@TargetSuite I will certainly be looking those up tonight. Thank you again sir!

[@casamequite]

Stay away from those scary Remlins. Keep them cheap for guys like me!

[@davidgreve1081]

Your pre-64 Winchester, I was only 4 years old when it was made! Today im 70 years old. Nice guns and rifles are like wine. They never get old. They always work well, and always are in style. Straight shooting, reliable firearms!

[@TargetSuite]

You are a young man! At least younger than me. I was born in 1950. 71 is just a week away for me.

[@davidgreve1081]

@@TargetSuite A little early, but Happy Soon to be celebrated Birthday to you George! I consider you an awesome friend, and im learning quite a bit watching your videos!

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks David. I am learning a lot making these videos, but even more from the comments you guys offer up.

[@johnswanson3741]

The pre '64's will always hold their value, unlike the post production Winchesters

[@Sn0ws519]

I just inherited an 1894 from my wife's grandfather, all original in 38-55 WCF with the octoganal barrel, manufactured in 1898 according to the serial number. These are such cool rifles and I love it already!

[@TargetSuite]

Wow! You are one lucky fella! Congratulations! And thank you for watching.

[@Tigershark-qy2gq]

Worth a small fortune. Don't part with it.

[@SouthernEngineering]

My father purchased a Winchester 30-30 in 1957, the year of my birth; it's in excellent condition and is proudly on display in my gun case. It's a fine weapon, and, yes, I still shoot it from time to time. Thanks for sharing.

[@TargetSuite]

Glad you are still shooting that old gun! Thanks for watching!

[@mikeross3012]

I too have the pre 64 32 Special my Dad purchased it from an elderly neighbor in 1968 with a saddle scabbard and 2 boxes of Peters cartridges, my Dad gave it to me as it was my first year to be able to go deer hunting I was 14, I killed not only my first 2 point buck with this rifle but also my first Spike bull elk, perfect saddle gun I’ve carried it with me horse back most of my life, Thanks for the great video review I learned a thing or two.

[@zebradun7407]

I have a 1973 Win 94 It is smooth as butter, loads great and easy, accurate, and handy. I am the second owner, the prior owner kept this rifle in the back window of his pick up, he was a deer hunter. So the finish is cold rust blued. To me owning a 1964 would only be for bragging rights.

[@johnswanson3741]

Better of with a Marlin after '64

[@lrh411]

@@johnswanson3741 Why? I own both a pre-64 (2 of them '47 and '51) and a post 64 (2 of those, '68 and '74) and honestly there is really no difference to speak of. Sure, the early ones are more desirable but meh... they all shoot the same. And yes, I have a 336 and it is fantastic too. All great pieces.

[@comiketiger]

You are bringing back a memory of a Winchester 25/20 lever my father had. I was 6th grade and he let me carry it Coyote calling. Didnt get a shot but it was so cool a rifle. I loved carrying it. Wish he would have kept it. So much history. Good job on your video. God bless all here.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks! Isn't it funny how memories around guns really stick with us?

[@comiketiger]

@@TargetSuite yes, you are right. I met to say my dad not he! Lol sorry about that. He had me out shooting .22s of course and many other pistols. .45 1911 which I inherited, and a S&W combat masterpiece in 38 spl. Those were around always and have memories of shooting them in 2nd. Grade. Winchester model 62 pump long rifle my grandpa gave me in third grade. I could write all day. On and on. Lol Enjoy your work. Thank you.

[@seanwattles9264]

I have a 55 Model 94 Winchester 30-30. Used to be my grandma's deer rifle :)

[@TargetSuite]

Sweet! What a family treasure!

[@garyK.45ACP]

Thank you. Great video. My forte. And one of the reasons I like your channel. You cover a lot of the older guns that others ignore. Your summary is exactly correct. In practical terms there is no difference between the pre-64 models and later models. In collector terms, there are. I am a Winchester collector, mostly lever rifles, but also a few semi-autos and bolt rifles. Winchester Model 70s get all the "press" when it comes to "Pre-64" models. And Winchester DID completely ruin the Model 70 in 1964...in my opinion. The result was not even a Model 70 in my opinion. But many Winchester models got the accountant's axe in 1964. The Model 12 was dropped entirely. They did come out with the Model 12Y and they did occasionally make runs of Japanese made Model 12s which were of very high quality and followed the original design. (as do the Japanese made models of older lever designs) Winchester eventually made good on the Model 70 name and those made more recently are excellent quality with the features that made the Model 70 famous... As far as lever guns go...which by 1964 was only the Model 94...other lever models had already been discontinued. The changes to the Model 94 were minor. IMO, and I own several of both pre-64 and post-64 models, the changes are negligible in functional purposes. Unlike the Model 70 that was changed hugely in function. However, collectors (being collectors) value the pre-64 models higher. So you will pay more for and the pre-64 gun will be worth more. At least for now. 50 years from now? Who knows? WARNING Opinionated opinion to follow Winchester waited a while to completely ruin the Model 94. They did that when they made it "angle eject" and then later added a cross bolt safety to block the hammer (in an attempt to "fix" stupid people) just to make it worse. I am of the correct opinion that cluttering up a handy lever gun with a scope, right where you would hold it with one hand to carry it, is ridiculous. Lever guns should have receiver sights (peep sights) or a bolt mounted peep. There is no need for "angle eject" It was a perfect solution to a problem that never existed. The safety was unnecessary and there was no safety issue if you lowered the hammer CORRECTLY and kept the gun pointed in a safe direction (as one ALWAYS should). I think my father taught me the correct way to "de-cock" a Model 94 by the time I was 8. I have not added any of these abominations to my collection. Despite being a Winchester collector and having strong, but correct, opinions about them...I must confess that my favorite deer hunting rifle of all time is a Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage. With a peep sight, of course. 😁

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks for your comprehensive comment. I was a little "worried" about the conclusion based on my somewhat limited hands on experience with Model 94s in general and only one pre-64 model 94. I've handled a new Model 70 and Model 94 from Japan and like the Miroku lever guns I own, they are stunning rifles.

[@garyK.45ACP]

@@TargetSuite I have more 94/64/1894 rifles in my collection than any other, mostly because they have been the most common and most economical to collect in the last 50 years. BUT, they are not my favorite Winchesters or my favorite lever gun. I much prefer anything but an 1894/94/64. Model 1892s, 1895s, 1886s and Model 71s are much better...and the Savage 99 is my all time favorite lever gun (I know, blasphemy!)😁 Miroku makes superb quality firearms. Their Winchester models are outstanding and the Miroku Model 71 I own is probably the most accurate rifle I own, bar none! And that is from a rifle and cartridge not known for great accuracy! And with only a peep sight! I would strongly encourage anyone who loves Winchesters (like I do) to buy one of the Miroku models if you want a gun for shooting and hunting. I dare say, they are even better made than originals! I own Miroku/Winchester Models 71, 1886, 1895 and Model 12s. I also own originals of all of those, but usually the Mirokus go to the range with me. Unless you just want to have a collectible, or a rifle chambered in one of the obsolete cartridges no longer made...the Miroku/Winchesters will serve you much better. And, for that matter, I own a couple of the more recently made Model 70s and they are every bit as good as a pre-64, and maybe even better. (dare I say it?) If you check out the KZbin channel "Leverguns50" you will see that gentleman loads up some incredible combinations for use in the Miroku/Winchester Models 1886 and 71. A testament to their strength. (I do not use those loads myself, if I need an elephant rifle, I use an...elephant rifle.) FYI...we have had -0- problems with elephants in our garden ever since I got that Model 70 Safari Express .375 H&H. And my wife wondered why I "needed" an elephant rifle! Ha!!! Showed her!

[@TargetSuite]

I'm a big fan of Leverguns 50. He's commented in this video giving a hint about what's up next on his channel. I'll just say, it's another Miroku Winchester😉

[@garyK.45ACP]

@@TargetSuite He has a great channel and covers a lot of Winchester/Miroku guns. I don't have the nerve to try the loads he does, nor do I have a reason to. TBH, I tend to go the other way and have made up light loads so my Grandsons could shoot their great-great grandfather's 1895 rifles in .35 WCF and .405 WCF. Cast lead .357 and .41 mag bullets and light charges of Unique powder with a cornmeal filling produce little recoil and an 8-10 year old can handle them. I don't hunt anymore due to arthritis in my back. I just can't walk too much anymore, so I use my guns for fun range shooting. Light loads are more fun. Although one of my favorite photos is of my wife which I snapped the moment she looked at me after she fired a full power Hornady 300 gr. .405 round in the Model 1895 for the first time. 😲

[@howlinhog]

Cool! I just looked up the serial number on the one I got from my dad, it's a 1949 and near perfect. A testament to how well he took care of it and I know for a fact that it was his go to rifle for whitetail for many years. In spite of the fact he had a Weatherby in 30/06

[@brianmoore1164]

Companies often go through good times and bad and often the name remains the same despite the owners changing. I find the new Browning Winchesters made in Miroku to be very well made. I hope the CZ purchase of Colt can bring that name back to greatness.

[@TargetSuite]

Amen on the Colts.

[@tays8306]

Like there would ever be a question of quality from the Japanese.

[@catfart879]

I won't buy browning. Japanese junk now. Cheaper metal and thinner.

[@brianmoore1164]

@chad Buy what you want, but you are wrong on both counts. Sorry, but you have fallen for propaganda. Industries all over the world seek out Japanese steel because it is known for extremely high quality. The best quality CNC machines are also Japanese. It isn't 1950 anymore.

[@BryceKimball7.3]

@@catfart879 Sounds like you’re mad that the Japanese are making these old American rifles better than they ever were. They are made to the original drawings, except for the saftey on the tang.

[@randallwood8537]

Absoultely go for the pre 64. I have shot of few of the post guns, and there is no comparison. My uncle hammer forged barrels for Winchester for 30 years (1950 to 1980) and he told me if you are looking for a good 94, but a pre64. he should know. He made them.

[@gizmocarr3093]

There was a period of time when Remington, Winchester, Savage and Marlin were at War competing for deer rifle sales. Remington was selling 760 Game Masters at discount stores for $99 to $120 dollars. You could buy Model 600 Mohawks for $69 dollars. Winchester was selling Model 94 models with receivers made with anodized aluminum. You could buy a Marlin 336 or model 94 Winchester for less than $100 dollars. Large discount stores went into the gun selling business and put a lot of little gun shops out of business. Winchester stopped making Model 12 guns and switched to using anodized aluminum receivers that few liked. One big mistake that cost them a loss in sales to Remington. There was a serious loss in quality of lots of good gun designs. When they increased production to fill the orders to discount chain stores quality took a dive. Most small gun shops refused to service guns they didn’t sell. Along with shoddy made guns came shoddy made scopes and mounts. Leupold scopes didn’t quite start out with a good reputation. The first one I bought lasted one shot from my BDL Remington 7mm mag. The reticle disappeared from one shot and I bought Weaver and Redfield after that and didn’t trust buying another Leupold for years. Weaver, Lyman, Redfield, and Bushnell made scopes in America unlike today. Some of the guns of the good old days were not so good.

[@TargetSuite]

I bought one of those discount store rifles in 1966 or 67. Better yet, my mother bought it for me. A Remington 760 in 270 Winchester. I think she paid $130.

[@johnshields9110]

As you described, some of the new Super Stores in the late '70's began selling mass produced guns at 20-30% under fire arm shops. Regarding Winchester 94's (30-30) I purchased one with a swirl grained fantastic walnut stock and bright blueing for $88. The internals, along with the lift gate seemed to be just thin almost pressed style metal. When I finally took it out to shoot, it was a tack driver. One of my newer friends just wanted it so bad, and wanted to get into hunting, so I sold it to him. Later, one day at the range, the metal bracket holding the firing pin in the bolt broke, which soured both him and me. I purchased a '58 Model 94 years later, and it is all very high quality steel. This particular rifle had a period2 1/2 X 3/4 inch LER scope, and had been sighted in dead on at 200 yards using 150 grain Remington ammo. Somebody had amped up his game for a big buck back in the day; wished I could have me him.

[@ScullCandy56]

winchester never made receivers for the 94 out of aluminum ever. what you're referring to are the series of rifles made in the years just after 64 that were made from a graphitic steel casting see here direct from Du-Lite themselves: du-lite.com/blackening-post-64-winchester-receivers/

[@DavidMScott-cs8pp]

Well in 1967 I bought a Winchester Model 1200 with anodized aluminum receiver that everyone criticizes. I used it for many years and put hundreds of rounds through it. Due to my leaving it in it’s the steel barrel rusted and pitted badly but the receiver was fine. So I bought a new barrel in the 80s and away it went again. I bought my son a well used 71 model 94. I refinished the wood and used brush on blueing and it looked great. The stock appeared to be Mahogany but no problem. He did have trouble with the loading gate bending which was noted in this video but a gunsmith fixed that at a very reasonable cost. My son didn’t hunt for a few years so I bought a long eye relief pistol scope and had a gunsmith install the mounts. It was a good rifle for a lever placing 100 yard groups in 2-3 in. With the Hornady spite point ammo it closed those. So in my experience the post 64 Model 94 and 1200 were fine firearms. My son still has both.

[@steveperry3538]

I had a pre 64. In 71, my brother-in-law bought a 30 30. He was disappointed because when the levers were open, his had a lot of side play, and mine was tight. Probably tolerances like you said. Very good video

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks!

[@robertshorthill4153]

I had a pre-- '64 model 94 my dad gave me from saving S&H green stamps when I turned 16. I shot my first deer with it that autumn. It was in storage in a friend's garage when I moved to Seattle. Later, when I went to retrieve it, it had been stolen by somebody, along with a nice camera that I also valued. So, my Winchester was gone and I was bummed out for several years. I bought another 94 a few years later. I couldn't believe the difference in quality. I considered it a waste of money. I never shot it for hunting and sold it to a gun nut neighbor that wanted a 94. ( I guess he never noticed it wouldn't group tight like the pre-- 64). I was glad to get rid of the piece of junk.

[@TargetSuite]

Ouch! Stories like that really hurt!

[@sethmullins8346]

My pre 64 doesn't group better at all and has a horrendous trigger. Yours probably just had a fucked up crown or something

[@Trigger200284]

@@sethmullins8346 nah. The post 64 has a noticeably sloppier action from garbage stamped parts. If you own a post 64, sell it and get a real gun.

[@sethmullins8346]

@@Trigger200284 show me where on the doll the rifle touched you

[@Trigger200284]

@@sethmullins8346 it is common knowledge that the post 64 guns are not as good, it's not even debatable.

[@theguyinmaine]

Dad bought me a 94 around 67 or 68. I could hit anything at any range with iron sights. Loved the rifle. Loaned it to a "friend" a few years back for hunting season and he pawned it. Never got it back. I do have a 1959 in great shape but loved the newer one from a shooting stand point.

[@TargetSuite]

Wow! What a "friend".

[@mikekemper9566]

What, a friend

[@rgalletta58]

Recently acquired my Dad's 1966 model 94. From a collectors perspective a big difference. From a shooters perspective, I can't think there is much difference at all. This rifle is a nice shooter. I'll be taking it into the deer woods this season. Love the size and weight, for still hunting.

[@TargetSuite]

I believe you are right. From a Shooter's perspective that designation isn't as distinct. I would be proud to have any model 94 in decent condition

[@tommissouri4871]

Most point out the sintered metal receiver, the stamped lifter, and the loading gate. Many point to the hammer being different, but from what I have seen, that was not a pre-'64/post-'64 change. They usually say the bluing is off on the sintered receiver and that the wood isn't finished as well. Some refer to the post-'64 guns as bad. However, here is what I have posted on other videos: The "bad" parts really are not all that bad except to book-learners and to snobs. Sintered iron designs were used in many things calling for strength. Engine connecting rods are made with sintered metal (powdered metal) for many high performance engine designs. Advantages are more consistency in design and final production, reducing of stress points, and cheaper. People pointing out that the receivers are sintered metal say that like they are going to break. They don't. Also, the stamped lifter is only lifting a cartridge up into place. It is more than adequate for the job. It is stamped steel, not sheetmetal. The A-arms on most cars are stamped steel. Do you worry they will break? Reducing costs doesn't always mean "cheap" or poorly built. My 1968 94 isn't really blued; it is black. It looks almost like powder coating. It still looks like new and it has been used in the woods, not just a wall decoration. Winchester apparently responded rather quickly to the aesthetics and the woodwork improved shortly after. However, most buyers at the time were not buying them as wall art but to hunt with. The collectible versions (always an indicator that they will not be collectible) had much higher attention to detail in assembly and look as good or better than the pre-'64 models. If you are buying for collecting, yes, you must pay careful attention to many things and base your judgement on that. If you are buying for shooting or hunting, then either will work just fine.

[@TargetSuite]

Well said! As you can tell, this 70's model was well made, except they hadn't yet figured out how to "finish" that receiver.

[@Dcw-rp6ib]

I bought mine in 82 the last year of the top eject still have it and works fine the bluing is not great due to my son putting it in a wet sleeve and leaving it there. I restored it but did not reblue the bad spots.

[@tomsherwood4650]

So it does come down to, do you want to shoot it, or marry it?

[@bidenstoletheelection9116]

@@tomsherwood4650 Not true, I just picked up a pristine 1951 model 94 .30-.30 for $500 today, Owner wanted me to loan him $150, Told him no as he's not good at paying back his debts from prior experiences with him, I Gave him $500 for the 94 with the agreement he pays me back $700 in one lump sum within 30 days, He told me to keep the gun for the $500, I'll still shoot it and even though its nearly pristine I maintain my firearms as far as keeping up on cleaning/lubing them even while in the safe, Gun was his uncles and has been shot very few times, Deals are out there

[@gman77gas]

The bottom of the bolt where the hammer rides is poorly machined and rough on the 70s

[@robbrown5702]

The cartridge lifter is also machined in the pre 64. It sounds different when you crank the lever. It also has the metal checkered buttplate. My first deer rifle was my dad's given to me at Christmas the year I shot my first Buck. It was manufactured in 1954. Somewhere along the way it's magazine was shortened to 4 rounds and it was fitted with Williams peep sights. I still use it all the time as my favorite still hunting rifle. It's the same era as my 336 Marlin. (1951)

[@roscoep.coltraine6344]

My first deer rifle was my pops 1954 32 win spcl.. Which then became my boys 1rst deer rifle. And I hope I see a day that 1 of my grandchildren take there 1rst deer with her. My pop pop bought 3 of em back in the day. 1for my pops 1 for my uncle and 1 for my aunt. Between the 3 they took quite a few deer and a couple black bear too. I'm not sure but, didn't the older ones come with the hooded sight also?

[@johnswanson3741]

I was going to comment on the cartridge lifter also. That is the easiest way to determine it to be a quality pre '64 or not. This guy has something that I have never seen before. I think that rifle has been messed with by someone an replaced that part. This guy does not know the whole story behind the pre '64 model 94

[@marktalley9251]

Is your 51 Marlin a waffle top with ballard rifling?

[@mrmiked6577]

Very well done video, sir! I just purchased a 1948 Flat Band Winchester 30-30 from my father this past weekend. He's had a it only a few yrs (don't think he ever shot it) and it was a "Safe Queen" from the previous owner. The condition is pretty much flawless. I mean, there's a very tiny nick (pencil point in size) in the wood near where the stock meets metal, but not a single scratch, hint of rust or discoloration anywhere else and super clean all the way through the barrel and bolt. I actually wonder what this thing might be worth.....?

[@TargetSuite]

Thank you. I just looked on GunBroker and there is a "beautiful condition" flat band model 94 with a buy-it-now price of about $1,300. There are a few others with opening bids pushing $2,000 but there are no takers so far. So I'm guessing the value of your gun is somewhere between $1300 and $1,500. But I am not an expert by any means.

[@timmytwodogs]

Any of the post '64's that I've owned have functioned just fine and all were accurate given the limitations of the design. In late 1970, Winchester realized that the stamped shell carrier was a mistake and replaced it with a solid steel carrier. Another issue was the cheap, lacquered wood furniture that they started using on and off for a decade or so. That stuff would flake and peel away if you looked at it sideways. However, the grand old '94 was handy, well balanced and reliable. I've seen '94's that were so neglected that they were hardly recognizable yet, they still put meat on the table when required. Great video by the way :)

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks!

[@lornemarr]

@@TargetSuiteAn m94 is the perfect deer rifle for where I live. when ever one is offered to me at a decent price I buy it. I never have them very long before someone offers me more than I think it’s worth. Way in the back of my gun safe is a 1902 manufacture exception that my executor will have to deal with because I like it’s history and patina. When ever I buy a post 64 I knock $100 off my offer if it has the pressed metal elevator. Though I did not like many of the changes Olin made that’s the only one I can’t live with.

[@brianjohnson1985]

i recently inherited my fathers guns and what a lever action collection , 38 -55 Oliver commerative edition, 2 30-30s , 32, 2 44 mags, thers a few 22 cal and a 45 lc. sorry for the bad typing you know if you know. not to mention all the other guns he was a huge Winchester , Ruger, Remington fan. I have never been a big fan of lever action rifles but now that i have them i hope to pass them on to my grandson one day. The 308 norma magnum rifle he used for elk out west back in the 80s, 270, 280, 243 rifles also, 4 remington 1100s oh and the colt hand guns he only collected colt revolvers there are anaconda, python, and cobra and a couple trooper mk 3 in 22 and 357. and quite a few other guns a 30 cal carbine and a m1 garand. and some ruger 10/22s i thought that i would open the safe and it would just be a bunch of long guns maybe some shot guns i had no idea the old man was squirreling away treasures to leave me. truth be told id rather have dad back, but thats not gunna happen. i thought i might sell them and buy something but what would i buy thats cooler? idk he also left me 80 acres and a paid off home, i love ya pops thank you.

[@tacman2893]

I hope that the 32 Win Special makes a strong comeback. It’s a great caliber and a pleasure to shoot (not that a 30-30 isn’t). I know that Winchester brought out somewhat recently a “new version” (Miruko made?) of the 94 in 32win special. I wish I could have gotten one.

[@TargetSuite]

Yep. I'd love to have one of the Miroku 94's in any cartridge.

[@sethmullins8346]

I really don't think it will. The last ammo I could find for sale for mine was over 10 years old on the shelf of some country gun shop, part of a case he ordered for his brother in law who only wanted a box or two.

[@NoMissOutdoors]

Hornady, Remington, and Buffalo Bore all load it.... its the same exact case as 30-30 with a .321 pill- which is 8mm

[@unclebob4964]

A really top-notch presentation. A couple of days ago, I traded a 1971 vintage model 94 30-30 for a 1951 vintage 30-30. The 1971 was pristine…looked unfired. The 1951 was very nice….had some thin area’s in the bluing where it was held….patina, I believe it’s called. It just looked like a Winchester 30-30 SHOULD look ! I didn’t mind a bit that I had to give $500 along with the 1971 for it. The 1951 is only 2 years “newer” than me……and I really enjoy sitting in my old chair in the evening, holding the 1951 vintage gun……and reminiscing. Just a kind of magical connection. Thanks for the fine review !

[@davidwilson2657]

At the beginning I was prepared for this to be a gong show. Well I have to admit that initial thought was completely without merit. So often with mass produced items the devil is in the details. You demonstrated the differences very nicely. I have never had any intention of owning a Model 94 made after 1963. I shoot left handed so none of the angle eject guns for me. For many years my eye sight did not allow for the use of iron sights which is what I wanted. I have been blessed since my early 60s with greatly improved eyesight where I can again shoot open sights like I did as a teen (except for the dry eye and focus issues). Late in life I have been mostly a traditional bowhunter. I hunt on the ground for shots well within 35 metres. So for me my Model 94 is a long range hunting tool for shots out to about 125 metres. I do not hunt sheep due to my age and overweight factors, but if I chose to rifle hunt them it would be with the 30/30. I am not a subsistence hunter so failing to shoot anything is not a matter of life and death. My Model 1894 shows the bluing wear I would hope to see. It clearly shows the gun was carried with one hand around the receiver. That is the logical way to carry it.I thought about refinishing it, but realized it has earned its imperfections. What I have, then is a very good Bighorn Sheep tool if I ever get back into a condition where I can hunt the high country where they mostly live. A seven pound, easily carried rifle is a great choice anytime grueling climbs are involved. And completely by chance, when I finally went looking for one and found one, it was made the same year I was, 1951.

[@TargetSuite]

Great comment! Thanks for sharing.

[@paulschmolke188]

Got my first Winchester when I was about 12 years old, a model 37 in 20 gauge, got my second when I was 22. It was my first Model 12 in 12 gauge. I have several. Happened upon a “new” model 94 in .32 Winchester Special a few years ago it was the last year of production before 1965 and was unfired. My most recent is a 1939 ‘94 in 30-30 that’s in great condition. They’re the only two 94’s I own but they’re favorites. They’ve gotten terribly expensive over the years but I think they’re still worth having...preferably in original condition regardless of dents, chips, dings and other proof of use and ownership.

[@TargetSuite]

Wow! You've got some great guns there. Congrats.

[@Iceaxehikes]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the Winchester Model 94/22. Mine in a 1974. I took it apart, as I do every used firearm, and cleaned and inspected. The bolt and locking system, lifter mechanism, everything is on another level. Feeds Shorts and easily and flawlessly as long rifle. Now my Marlin 39A is certainly simpler and has fewer moving parts, as does my modern Henry. But the Winchester 94/22 is by far the more precise mechanism. The Henry has the smoothest action, but can jam if fired from a funky angle (frog hunting). And shorts jam occasionally. Ditto the 39A. The Winchester is almost like controlled round feed. I could'nt get it to jam upside down.

[@TargetSuite]

That 94/22 is on my "hit list" of guns to pick up. The channel just needs to grow a little more ;-)

[@benkanobe7500]

@@TargetSuite You will be in bended knee head bowed appreciation of the quality of the 9422. Any Winchester lover must have one. You will be amazed. The price is going way up each year so don't delay.

[@davidstephenson7194]

The right side rear receiver screws are vertically inline, while the earlier models are not. I am the proud owner of my dad's mdl 94 bought in the late 50s after he moved to Canada from Texas where all you needed was a shotgun for hunting at that time. Still shoots great groups only now it does it with Hornady LeverRevolution ammo instead of the old CoreLokts that he always used.

[@sgtmajtrapp3391]

When it comes my personal use, I always favored Pre 64 M94 Winchesters, the quality in metal, wood and fit/finish are exceptional. Knew a person who had a mid 70s era model 94, it jammed up on a hunt, over time the metal turned a purple color on receiver and wood quality was not close to Pre64 weapons. He had to take the carbine to a Gun Smith to get it operating, long time ago so dont recall what the mechanical issue was, maybe short stroked it, maybe lifter failure. Seems when he got it fixed he indicated it shot well but lost confidence in the gun and traded it.

[@TargetSuite]

👍

[@richardkev3077]

I’ve had two post-64 Model 94s. When I bought them new, I had no idea what “pre-64” meant. The 1979, Model 94 Big Bore in .375 Winchester was never a problem. But the mid-80s vintage, 94 AE in .44 magnum had some trouble. For most of its life, it was fine. It was never as smooth as the .375, but it worked. But after a few thousand rounds and 30 years, the carrier broke. It was made of cheap, cast metal and it broke at a thin spot. Apparently, this was a common problem for the AE in .44 magnum (and .45 Colt - same carrier), but it wasn’t an issue for other calibers. That part used to be common and easy to find. Not anymore.

[@musicmatty67]

With the introduction of the angle eject models in 1983, Winchester returned to the forged steel receivers all the way till the end of their production in 2006. I guess that explains why the bluing on my 1989 model 94 is still pristine 30 years later. From 1983 through the end of the line 2006 are arguably the best 94s produced.

[@Lollygagger-k4p]

I agree, the later m-94's are very good. I hope Ruger does as well with the Marlins. Maybe they'll offer a Cowboy version.

[@joeballszorn8750]

I have a mint 1961 model 94. was my grandfathers wedding gift from my grandmother. edven got the bill of sale for it from a fishing and tackle shop in queens NY

[@TargetSuite]

Wow! What a treasure!

[@joebarrett5310]

Good video Sir 👍🏻 Another subtle difference in pre-64 vs post-64 is in the lever itself in the profile just behind the trigger where the lever interacts with the "grip safety" as well as where the lever hooks to the carrier. Also, the post-64 lever pivot pin slot is sort of banana shaped where the pre-64 slot is more or less straight. The shape of the slot and profile of the lever on the post-64 lever allows the lever to "droop" slightly with the action closed if you aren't gripping the lever tight to the tang, thus not depressing the little button that allows the trigger to be pulled. On a pre-64, all that is required to depress the trigger safety is for the action to be completely closed. It does not require your hand to squeeze the lever to the tang to depress the trigger safety. I have a Win 94 Big Bore in 375 Winchester, made around 1980. It came with a large loop lever which I'm not a fan of. I installed a pre-64 lever and it only required a few minutes of minor grinding where it interacts with the carrier to function properly. If you remove both levers and compare them closely side by side, you will see the subtle differences. Carry on Sir!

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks. I appreciate you guys whose knowledge about vintage Winchesters far exceeds my own.

[@mikegillaspy1721]

Wanna send me that large loop?

[@joebarrett5310]

@@mikegillaspy1721 I'd be happy to Mike, but the LGS where I got the rifle swapped me even up, so I don't have it.

[@luckynorm100]

I have two winchesters 94's one made in 1971, and someone took steel wool to the barrel . I picked it up at a pawn shop 15 years ago (+/-) that looked like crap. $300 Got it pretty cheap. I had it cerakoted black and put a red fiber optic up front, $125 it looks great, total cost $425, everybody wants to buy it, NOPE it is my pig and deer gun for the river swamp, and the other is made in 1981. someone had got it for christmas and put it in the closet and left it for 35 years it is mint, two different pawn shops. I have the same money in both of them. The shop owner had a couple pre 64's he wanted high dollar for, I told him good luck with that

[@tonydeaton2890]

I have a large pile of pre 64 Winchesters in many configurations. The fit and finish on the older guns is definitely nicer but, functionally, I don't think there's enough difference to make difference. I still gravitate to the older pre 64 examples though. Great video.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks for your feedback. I know if I ever buy another "shooter" I'll focus more on condition and cost, and less on whether it is pre-64.

[@tonydeaton2890]

@@TargetSuite I once had a Miroku 1886 Winchester in 45-70 while, at the same time, I had an '86 Winnie made in 1892. The century old gun was a nicer firearm hands down. As always, thanks for the info. I always learn something from you.

[@dogbone1358]

Check out The Cinnabar You Tube channel. He has a “pile” of original Winchester’s.

[@thudable]

I own several model 1894's, one of which is a 1964. The finish is gone on the receiver. But the rifle is one of my favorite 94 's to shoot. Thanks for posting. Much appreciated

[@egmjag]

My first introduction to guns was after seeing my father's 94 Winchester chambered in .32 WS on the top shelf of my parents' bedroom closet. I would also regularly observe the boxes of ammo and individual rounds of ammo for it. They always fascinated me as a young child, and I knew that the rifle was dangerous. Then I got to shoot the rifle at an outdoor range when I was 15 or 16 and it unfortunately left a bad impression because of what I thought was heavy recoil. I never touched the rifle again and I wasn't interested in guns at that time anyway. I think my dad took me to the dessert that day to symbolically demonstrate that I was entering adulthood. A few years ago my dad gifted me the rifle and I was really able to appreciate it. I love the way it feels in my hands compared to an AR 15. I feel the same way about old AKs like I do about my 94 Win. I did research on the serial number and I believed it was manufactured in 1909, but because all the older original records were burned in an accidental fire at the building where they were archived, the date may be 1913. You really can't date any old 94 Win accurately because of that fire. At least one person who claimed to be an expert was sure my rifle was made in 1909, so 🤷🏽‍♂️. It has an octagonal barrel and it's in incredibly excellent condition, making me wonder if parts on it were replaced . I'm pretty sure it was reblued when my dad got it for around $20 in the late 50s from a rancher outside of greater L.A. (now heavily populated with a busy freeway) who had two of them. I have shot it several times and it is incredibly accurate. I didn't have experience shooting when I first used it after my dad gave it to me, but I hit a small steel target about 100 yards away several times. The people that were in our group were also surprised. After shooting my 12 gauge shotgun at the dessert the day I shot my 94 Win, the recoil on the 94 was minimal. It's currently under my bed in a rifle case, loaded as one of my self defense guns. I had it cleaned and checked by a gunsmith before I shot last time. I will keep this rifle as long as I can.

[@TargetSuite]

That's a great story. Thanks for sharing. Aren't we thankful for second chances, even if they come much later in life?

[@MattH-wg7ou]

I just love them, they're so handy and comfortable.

[@johngallagher2313]

I have a pre-64 30/30 that belonged to my Dad. He got it used somewhere. It has been rode hard and put up wet but still shoots and works good. I have also owned several post 64 versions they shot good too and ran as they were supposed to. Definitely not as much machining finesse in the post versions but they were supposed to be a hunting rifle and at that they were fine. Where Winchester lost me was with the safety and the angle eject. Both creations of the devil IMO. When I was just a young beginning hunter there was an old man in the deer camp and he had a 25/35. I have always wanted one but never have made the connection. I admired that old man and wanted a rifle like his. Over 50 years later I still do.

[@TargetSuite]

The cross bolt safety on the 2002 I featured last year was the worst design I have seen. You couldn't disassemble the rifle without taking out the cross bolt safety and the cross bolt safety was a nightmare to get out.

[@danielchandler15]

Yes those made a grown man smile. Thank ya for sharing them. Can't wait to see some rounds downrange. Take care Sir

[@TargetSuite]

You and me both! Thanks!

[@davidforbes7938]

Some of the mid 70s ones were steel plated and blued they did a few different things trying to fix their blueing because of the sintered metal receivers.

[@TargetSuite]

You are right David. I pinned a comment to the top of the thread from a viewer who detailed a lot of what you are talking about. You guys are great.

[@floydthomas5415]

I have my grand father’s 1954 model 94 in 30-30 and my father’s 1955 model 70 in 30-06 ( bought at the same time/ same store). They are used but great guns. Will stay in the family for years to come.

[@jimmorrison306]

I haven’t handled one of these in years. However, I always thought some of the post-64 guns had a different hue on some of the small parts - kind of purplish and just didn’t take the blue finish like the regular steel did.

[@lifepolicy]

Bought a 94 made in 74 when I was young. Was not aware that there was a pre 64 by that time. However, it was like new and I paid close to nothing. For the little use it gets, it's good enough. Added a 9422 from 74 so that it doesn't feel alone.

[@TargetSuite]

If it's as nice as this 1971 model was before the abuse, you've got a winner!

[@benkanobe7500]

The 9422 is one of Winchesters' highest quality rifles ever made. They did not make money on them and they were costly to produce. I have an early plane Jane one when they still did shorts, long, and long rifle. Later versions did not do shorts. All are fantastic rifles. Congratulations on your collection!

[@georgiaboy4410]

The 32 special has a slower twist better suited for cast bullets. Enjoyed the vid👍🏻

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks. That's what I have heard. The big accuracy challenge will be with the 200gr Buffalo Bore cartridges. They are trucking at a published velocity of 2200 fps.

[@edstimator1]

@@TargetSuite Personally I would be reloading some pretty light loads for that Rifle. Not that the rifle wouldn't handle the more powerful load but I just wouldn't be in a hurry to send that gun to it's permanent resting place on the wall.

[@greywendigo7026]

just made picked one up today at a gunshow and man I love my new pre 64 in 3030 such a slick gun with Lyman rear peep sights can't wait to see how she shoots

[@TargetSuite]

Congrats!

[@donbowden8582]

Odd about the year pre 64 with Winchester. 63 was the year they stopped making Winchester model 12 shotguns because they had receivers that were made out of a single billet of steel . Sounds like money started getting tight at Winchester. Great vid as always.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks Don. Yes, the great Model 12 fell victim to the accountants pen as well.

[@robertbeda959]

Interesting. Thank you. I have always thought that the earlier post '64s had a sintered, pressed steel powder, rather than a forged receiver and stamped feed plate. I have both, pre and post, 1946 or 1948 and a 1968. Have taken mule deer and several antelope with the post 64, never have hunted with the '47 or '48. Both seem to shoot at the range about the same. Got the older one at a yard sale for $75 several years ago. Also have a pre '63 Marlin 336 ""parts gun" at a yard sale for $20. Had my local gunsmith replace the missing parts and now it's a great shooter..

[@fredfrisbey1925]

I have a 1986 94 in 44 magnum and it’s has a another receiver and mechanism. I like your very nice objective videos.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks!

[@garyK.45ACP]

Look carefully. What you have is a Winchester Model 1892 (or copy) OR a Marlin Model 1894. The Winchester Model 94 has been made in .44 Magnum but it has the same action and "mechanism" as all other Model 94s. The Winchester Model 1892 has a different action and mechanism (actually scaled down Model 1886) and was chambered for pistol caliber cartridges. It was never chambered in .44 Magnum during it's original manufacture (1892-1941) but there have been many copies of it, including Japanese made, Winchester marked, rifles chambered in .44 Magnum. Marlin has a rifle called the 1894, also a lever action that looks somewhat similar to the Winchester, that has been made more or less continuously since 1894 in a variety of pistol caliber cartridges, including .44 Magnum.

[@1745fred]

@@garyK.45ACP hello Gary, my Winchester is a ranger 94 in 44 magnum AE without the cross bolt safety, 18 inch barrel with the John Wayne loop lever but the mechanism is a little different and it has a coil main spring instead of a leaf spring. I bought it in Paris, France in 1986 or 1887 used, but made in that period 1985 or 86.. The receiver is milled steel nicely brued , not alloy cast receiver Winchester made from 1964 to 1982 or 1984 I think. The action is verry good but the furniture is terrible. It's petty rare to find these in France in 44 magnum. I am going to buy a Chiappa 1892 take down version in 44 magnum tomorrow. I know the difference with a 92 and 94 Winchesters. Thanks for your interest.Cheers

[@garyK.45ACP]

@@1745fred Not really a "different mechanism or action" then. The differences you see in yours, from the ones in the video, are similar across all Model 94 production. I misunderstood what you meant by a "different action and mechanism". The coil mainsprings were used in all Model 94s after serial number 4,580,000 (roughly, I do not have the exact serial number for that change) and the crossbolt safety began being used about serial number 6,000,000 along with a rebounding hammer. The angle eject came in before the crossbolt safety and for some period the rifles were angle eject without a safety, such as yours. The "Ranger" models were a lower cost series made with stained hardwood stocks rather than walnut, no front sight hood, non-ramped front sight and a few other cosmetic changes to reduce the selling price. They were often marketed in "Big Box" stores in the USA. Previously, "Big Box" stores had ordered Model 94s with their own "store brand" names such as "Ted Williams" (Sears, Roebuck & Co.) "Westernfield" (Montgomery Wards) or "Western Auto" for that hardware store chain. .44 Magnum is not a very common caliber in the Model 94 in the USA either. By far, most are .30-30. Incidentally, France purchased considerable numbers of Model 94 and Model 1892 rifles to use as "survival guns" for French pilots during WW1. Enjoy the rifle!

[@fredfrisbey1925]

@@garyK.45ACP thanks for your precious information Gary. Mine is similar to Jeff Quinn’s before he had it redone. www.gunblast.com/FiringPin.htm. The major difference is the barrel length 18 vs 16 inches because of french laws on riffle lengths. It shoots very well at 50 meters.

[@scubaman6]

I am long in the tooth now but had always wanted a Winchester lever gun and someone walked in my front door with a Win. Mod 94 32 WS and I bought it along with a Win. Mod. 61. The 32WS was manufactured in 1940 according to the serial number and the 61 in 1935. The problem is finding ammo for the 32-40. I really like the 32 Special.

[@TargetSuite]

Congrats on your model 94! I like the 32 Win Spl as well. It's a little different, at least as good as the 30 30, and with the right loads perhaps a little better. Thanks for watching, and thank you for your comment!

[@poppy2394]

IT AMAZES ME YOUR MECHANICAL MIND THAT YOU HAVE. I WOULD BE DAYS RE-ASSEMBLING

[@TargetSuite]

Haha! Practice, practice, practice! (plus a little mechanical bent😉)

[@edstimator1]

@@TargetSuite Are you serious??? Are you telling us you didn't just fall out of bed one morning knowing how to diss and re assemble a rifle?? AMAZING!!

[@christopherdean1326]

I am an engineer, by training and inclination. I bought a brand new Rossi 92 some years ago, and took it into my head that I should strip it down to clean all the delivery grease out of it before I used it. It came apart easily enough, but I came VERY close to just putting all the parts into a box and taking it back to the gun shop to get it together again! Lever actions are simple enough in principle, but complicated in reality.

[@MelvinLew]

Pre 1964 Winchester Model 70 's were control feed like the Mausers. They were high quality American made bolt action rifles.

[@liljimitwofeatherz9735]

US made

[@MelvinLew]

A pre '64 Model 70 Featherweight in .243 Win. A true classic!

[@santiagoribeiro4187]

The rifle arrived today and I dialed in the scope just a couple hours ago kzbin.infoUgkxQt2uORDRfFOVSrO4idv4B90ThT6EOnEL . I haven’t shot with a scope in probably 25 years. The X on the left was my target. (the shot almost in the bullseye on the right X was my father in laws first shot after I made adjustments) The two shots circled are my first 2 shots. Then I brought it down - shot once. Then brought it over to the left. From there zeroed it in to dead center. This all was from 25 yards out. Follow instructions carefully when mounting the scope. So far I'm very happy with the purchase.

[@tedpfenninger4972]

Thanks for the video, George. I haven't seen one of your videos in awhile, your videos are always a delight. I own a 1950 vintage model 64 and I enjoy it but the post '64 M-94s, I've fired are just as functional as the earlier guns. I think we concur on this.

[@TargetSuite]

Yes. From a usability standpoint I don't think there is a measurable difference.

[@MarcosCaminante]

Wow! That 32 is amazingly sharp! We need detailed “How to” breakdown of the the 32 and then we need a Winchester 94 vs Marlin 336 and of course a 32 vs 35 Remington vs 38-55.... . You have some work ahead of you. 😎

[@TargetSuite]

Haha! Yes. Lots of work, uh, fun ahead.😄

[@easttexan2933]

@@TargetSuite Soon rather than later 😎

[@TargetSuite]

@East Texas Yes. Heading back soon.

[@airbornesoldieramerica7125]

Do have 35 Rem. Great caliber, like it better then 30-30. Not bad mouthing 30-30 cause I have one of those to. Not much interest in 38-55 but always wondered on how much difference it is from 32 vs 35 Rem.

[@willhamner4921]

The set screw identifier adds a new tool to the mental toolbox. For years since I became interested in firearms in the mid-60's, my mentor always said the easiest way to tell pre-64 mdl. 94's was to look at the forward top of the breach bolts where the extractor is visible in a slot. The pre-64's have two small half moon cuts machined in the bolt where the extractor passes (a nice oiling spot) and the post-64's do not. Surprised no one else mentioned that. Basically, I love all leverguns being I'm a left eyed and right handed old goat (1950 model like you I believe). Recently added a '51 Marlin waffle top in .35 Remington to the stable and been madly scrounging components, moulds etc. No .32 Spcl's but a couple 32-40's for fun & show. The shooter is a Marlin 1893 (1904 prod.) smokeless steel short rifle. The shower is unfired J.Wayne w/scabbard & cartridges.

[@TargetSuite]

I did notice the half moon cuts on the pre-64. Another one mentioned in the comments is the carrier and loading gate spring screws are not lined up vertically on the pre-64s whereas they are on those made 1964 and after. Btw, you've got some great guns there. Well deserved I might add for a guy who shares my vintage 😉

[@davidharris9077]

I thought that the major difference with the post 64, is that in the post years they started using MIM frames. Supposedly, the MIM sides did not finish as well and Winchester eventually started using MIM internal parts as well. If I'm wrong please let me know. It wouldn't be the first time, lol.

[@TargetSuite]

I have not heard about the MIM receivers, but my research was not in depth. But both the pre and post 64 did have cast internal parts.

[@1745fred]

the one i have is a Ranger AE 1986 94 in 44 magnum caliber. The receiver is not cast but milled as the pre 64 were made. I reblued it and It looks great.

[@TargetSuite]

Gosh since your comment yesterday a lot has been added about the MIM receivers. You guys are amazing!

[@rogerlangley9459]

Excellent video sir, my 1951 32 Special is one of my best rifles in my stable. Found him in a gun shop in NH and had to have him join the family. Yes it is tough finding ammo and I'm always looking but at the end of your video you showed the BB 200's. I just received 4 boxes of 200's from BB a few days ago. They didn't have any 170 in stock and the price was reasonable now a days. I only ran 10 shells through him and loved the way he barks. If I ever come across another one well you know what I'll do.

[@greybone777]

Good luck finding either gun. Very hard to find a pre 64 any thing that hasn't been corrupted in some way..

[@thebordercrossing]

Wow, what a beauty! Looking forward to seeing the 55 on the farm. Great video, thanks.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks! Yes. I see an adventure or two on the horizon.

[@danoneill2846]

The only Win I shot was an early 70s era ?? 30-30 20" Oct Barrel I think he said it was a Century Model , it looked like an up grade from the basic rifle . Sweet shooter !!!!

[@TargetSuite]

That sounds like a nice one!

[@bradcdavis00]

I appreciate the time you took to tear these two '94s down and to show us the differences between the two.

[@Leverguns50]

Good job. Interesting you did a video on the 32 special I have one coming out later this week, the modern made in Japan Winchester 94 is actually made better than the pre-64

[@TargetSuite]

That's great. I can't wait to see that video. I've watched a couple of your other videos on the 32 Win Spl. They primed me for "settling" on one for myself. Have you seen the Buffalo Bore 200gr. cast bullets. 2200 fps ! ! ! Also, I've been looking at a Miroku Model 94 (30-30) in Shreveport. They are really nice. Certainly nicer than any domestic Winchesters I have seen.

[@dogbone1358]

@@TargetSuite Not familiar with this round. Looks like the ballistics of the 32 Special make it a more powerful round than its anemic sounding name.

[@kevintoews5656]

Another distinguishing feature of the pre-64 model is the placement of two screws on the right side of the receiver, above the trigger guard. In the pre-64 version, these screws are set diagonally: the lower screw is positioned slightly closer to the barrel, while the upper screw is slightly further back toward the stock. In contrast, the post-64 model has these two screws aligned directly above and below each other, rather than diagonally offset.

[@PatRMG]

Throughout the years, if I found a Winchester that had some years on it, it was exactly a 1965. Never had a pre-64 in my hands.

[@TargetSuite]

Haha! I've been chasing the holy grail my whole life, and now that I have one, and have made the part by part comparison, I would buy a cheaper 1965 over the 1955.

[@joeblo5516]

@@TargetSuite You might want to take a closer look at a 65 before saying that. There is more to the 94 than just pre or post 64. There were many changes over the years. In 1970 they made improvements over the 64-69 years. Including metal and wood quality and finish as well as the cheap stamped steel lifter. I have many 94s from various years (including a 55 and a 71), and they’re all great, but I have no interest in any made from 64 to 69.

[@buckey63]

Wow this takes me back. I have a 32 spec. made in 46' if I'm not mistaken and a 30-30 that my dad bought used in 59'. I still have his bill of sale. I hunted with them as a kid in the 70's and still enjoy a little range time with them every now and again. great rifles. Enjoyed the vid.

[@TargetSuite]

Sounds like you've got a couple of great ones! Thanks for watching!

[@ronbloomberg]

Mine was manufactured in 1953. It's the only '94 I've ever owned.

[@TargetSuite]

Sweet!

[@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244]

I had a model 94 36-inch octagon barrel takedown in .32 Special produced in 1913. I got it from the widow of the owner in 1971. I loved it. I had loading dyes for it and found it was fine to use 30/30 brass. However, it was stolen from me during a 1977 burglary at my apartment. Still really burns me. A few years back I bought a 1967 Canadian Centennial, probably the least popular commemorative model they made. Being of French Canadian heritage, it didn't bother me. I replaced the sights with a nice full buckhorn and adjusted the front sight using a machinist ruler. It is dead on at 150 yards and easy to cycle and shoot. I really have no complaints about it. But I wish I had a pre-64 as well.

[@firstnameiii7270]

just got a 61 Winchester 94

[@TargetSuite]

That's fantastic! Those pre-64s are lovely guns!

[@DC632A]

It depends. For collector or value most pre 64’s command a higher price because of the components used to make it and historical perspective. For performance function, it probably doesn’t matter.

[@Boomhower89]

I have a post 64 and it is built cheaper and the quality isn’t quite as good. But then again you don’t really need high quality part for the dust cover on the kings loading gate. Stamped sheet iron works plenty good. So as for grabbing a rifle to shoot game both will work fine. I love rifles though and admire the old quality craftsmanship. Also the retaining value in money is different.

[@TargetSuite]

👍👍

[@dalesearcy5734]

I am fortunate to have a 1956 Winchester in 30-30. The story is that my cousin's husband won the gun and sold it to my Father for $25.00. My Father already had his Savage model 99 in 300 Savage and didn't need another gun but saw the value and bought it. By the time I took ownership of the gun, it had been shot very little. Perhaps less than 50 rounds were ever shot through the gun. I have never hunted with it but enjoy using it for target shooting once in a while. I reload for it and use Trail Boss powder and light target [Cowboy] loads.

[@TargetSuite]

Sounds like a great gun. Congrats!

[@m2gjam139]

Great job George the rifle looks great I never heard of that round before. I will look it up I only have two lever rifles. The Marlin 444 and the Henry 357/38 that one because of you. But I really like it. If it's safe to shoot I like it. Those are classics. I just refinished the stock and hand guards on one of my M1 rifles it came out great. Who knows what else can go wrong in this country.and the world. It's going to be a long hot summer. Riots, looting, fires and the police have to watch with their hands tied. Here in the suburbs were just fine. Sorry to bring politics into your video but this is crazy. Not a good situation. Stay safe my friend. Great presentation.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks! I'm surprised the 32 Winchester Special cartridge is still in production myself. But the Buffalo Bore cartridge loads put it up there with the .35 Remington!

[@frankwebster3656]

The Marlin 44 mag is a nice round also, with hardly any recoil, you'd like it. Any how, we have crap going on in Canada 🇨🇦 also

[@m2gjam139]

@@frankwebster3656 I was thinking about the .44 magnum for the Henry. The Marlin is a .444 a 44 magnum on steroids. I can't believe Justin Trudeau won again. The United States is rotten we are in serious trouble with the presidents agenda.. Can you own 444/ 45/70 lever guns? I know you have many restrictions. I have a good deal of rifles and shotguns. I'm sure you can't have.. Thanks my Canadian brother.

[@technovikingfan]

Very sober and well presented comparison. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Very informative and balanced. Nice work!

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks! I loved making that video.

[@jakeb8856]

I’m looking forward to seeing your groups with that Buffalo Bore. Do you know the twist rate of your .32 Special? I have a pre-64 in .32 that (I think) has the 1/16 twist and had heard it may not stabilize those big 200 grain slugs. If yours works out, I might be ordering some.

[@TargetSuite]

It is 1:16 and Buffalo Bore recommends the 1:14 twist for those rounds. I may have to save them for "close up work". We'll see.

[@johnshields9110]

I had bought a post 64 M94 in 1974. By chance it had beautiful wood, the shiny blue finish and pressed receiver. Now, it shot well! One of my buddy's bought it off of me as i sighted it in. But, its firing pin and bolt messed up a couple of weeks later. Much later I bought a 1960 M94 and it is so solidy built. Handling wear only from limited service. Has a great trigger, and almost bolt action accurate. That's my match up experience.

[@kennethsolberg624]

You did a great job, thanks for the information keep up the good work 💪

[@TargetSuite]

Thank you! Will do!

[@mikekemper9566]

First rifle I purchased in 1976 win 30/30 iron sites extremely reliable, a real nail driver, only issue. Not easy to unload, but great gun.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks for the input. I've handled a couple of post '64 model 94s and from a functional standpoint they are not at a disadvantage to the older guns.

[@gman77gas]

I have a few different years post and pre. One is a 76 also. I too have some issues on unloading. Just took it all apart for major cleaning and a new ejector is on order. We will see the results!

[@JDWard-Jeepster]

The manufacturing quality of Winchesters went to crap in 1964 and the U.S. mint started making crappy coins ( metal wise ) in 1965. This Winchester Quality issue was really obvious in the Rifleman's Rifle the model 70.

[@legathm]

Got myself a 94 in 30-30 built in 1962, pre 64s are rare on this side of the atlantic, so I am very happy to have found one, let alone the fact that the gun is in near mint condition!

[@johnharrington6122]

You bet it matters ! Machined vs. stamped parts , I’ll take machined ! I have a ‘55 Winchester .30-.30 and really like it !

[@melchung1566]

Thanks for an accurate overview if the M94 pre n post 1964. There are a few improvements with the post 64 such as a larger loading gate screw, external screws retaining the cartridge guides and a few more. Ther are so many pre 64's in existence that reproduction parts are still made today, i believe Wisner in Adna, WA makes parts for that gun including oversized locking blocks. For post 64 guns- good luck in finding parts for its many variations. I have not examined the currently made Japanese guns that start at over $1100.00

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks for jumping in on the comments. I have three Miroku 1892's (counting my son's in 45 Colt). The out the door price on the new ones I bought was $970, including the .357 Mag version that I featured a few weeks ago. Reasonably priced for the quality. They just don't come with any "collectability".

[@georgeholt8929]

George, your failing to mention the beveled bottom of the receiver. Winchester left the receivers more square at those corners. Value is the biggest difference of course.

[@TargetSuite]

Yep. There are a lot of "lesser" features that I was not aware of. Thanks!

[@joeloewe8289]

Screw all this pre and post 64 crap people talk about. I have a post 64, (have to look up the number again but it's late 60's early 70's) that I deer hunt with. So if it works and is acurate it works and is huntable, thats all that matters.

[@chrisgabbert658]

It will be interesting to see when you have a good load for it . 👍

[@TargetSuite]

The Buffalo Bore with a 200gr bullet at 2200 fps is going to be hard to beat. That puts the "mild" 32 Win Spl in the 35 Rem category of power.

[@chrisgabbert658]

Target Suite they have the power but is it the most accurate 🤷‍♂️ with power you will find out 😁 it’s your shoulder . You can show that the 32 can do the job out to a 100yard ..

[@oranboone8596]

Great Video and explanation of the difference between pre 64 and post 64, 94’s! Thank you Mr. Hunt!!!!!!

[@andyfields3248]

I'm surprised you missed "THE" major difference, but most don't understand what it is. In 1964 Winchester switched from a forged nickel steel receiver to a "centered metal" receiver. Centered mettel is a process of compressing powdered metal into a shape close to the desired part then heating it to the point that the power becomes a sold cohesive metal. Forging is vastly superior process but also quite a lot more costly.

[@TargetSuite]

I confess to not being a Winchester historian. But thanks to a lot of you guys, especially @garyK I have learned a lot. Including the transition to sintered steel receivers.

[@bobscar327]

Did you mean to say "sintered metal"?

[@rgalletta58]

@@bobscar327 I'm sure he did and honestly It's not that much of a big deal to a hunter like myself.

[@flintrichards945]

I have a pre-64 model 94 that I am partial to I had a post 64 I believe it was around 1975 or so when I got it between the two I would rather have the pre-64 but they both shoot well and they both are good guns.

[@TargetSuite]

👍👍

[@dogbone1358]

Not familiar with the 32 Special. Looks like the ballistics don’t have anything to do with its anemic sounding name. Thanks for the education. Look forward to its performance at the range.

[@TargetSuite]

It will be an adventure for sure 😄

[@jamesyoung1547]

The 32 special was a ballistic twin to the 30-30. Has a slower twist rate and is limited by variety of bullet weights compared to 30 WCF. Does shoot cast very well. I've always thought if it had been available before the 30 WCF with more bullet weights it would have been more popular.

[@paulschmolke188]

Have pre 64 94’s in both calibers. Also several model 12’s, model 37 variants and a nice Model 70 in .270. Everyone of them is pre 64. It’s hard to explain the differences but the feel of each of them when cycled is better to me than later versions. Functionally, there’s no real difference but there’s an aesthetic that can’t be ignored in addition to the collectors value. I also have Marlins. All good rifles. Even the Japanese made Winchester’s are well made and I’ve had a few of them too. Winchester has a well deserved reputation for quality thats unmistakable when their stuff is handled.

[@TargetSuite]

Hi Paul. I'm new to the Pre-64 (rifle) arena, but sure am proud to have at least one. And the '94 has been a dream of mine since I was a kid. Looks like you got all the bases covered. 👍👍

[@chuckschillingvideos]

I think for Model 70's, it might matter in terms of ultimate (as opposed to practical) accuracy. For other Winchester rifles? Nope. It probably matters only to collectors and those trying to sell rifles to them.

[@TargetSuite]

👍

[@Rebadog1]

I've never shot or seen a Pre -64 except in videos or photos but my post Winchester Model 94 30-30 shot's just fine and the price was very low. Great video

[@pcupach]

Great info. Very interesting.

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks Paul.

[@easttexan2933]

Love the old Mod 94s. Hunted with one many years back in the 60s. Course we hunted deer ahead of the hounds in those days. Killed a few, missed more than I killed lol. However, I still prefer the Marlin 336 for hunting applications today. Outstanding info

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks Max. My kinfolk over here used buckshot when the dogs were running. They just didn't shoot enough outside of two or three shots during hunting season to develop their "craft".

[@easttexan2933]

My first "deer" was killed with my uncles 12ga double barrel, double hammers, shotgun appx 1958-59? Progressed to a bolt 20ga. Then a 30-30 and then my jr year in HS I bought a browning A5 and later on a Rem Mod 1100 3" and then I went full time rifle hunting by the 80s.

[@frankhinkle5772]

Two beautiful rifles!

[@TargetSuite]

👍👍

[@greybone777]

Other than that made in Japan rollmark 😅

[@fdmackey3666]

I can attest to the wildly different price points between a pre '64 and post '64 Winchester '94. While living in Maryland I haunted area pawn and gun stores "just looking" for the most part but on one occasion I found a VERY rough (possibly chewed on by beavers, burned, buried in a manure pile for for several years, and left to rust in a damp basement) pre '64 that was stamped .30 WCF. Thinking that any firearm in such a condition HAD to be cheapish I was brought kicking and screaming into the reality of pre '64 prices when I saw the price tag....Let's just say I gingerly returned it to it's place on the rack and instead purchased an (easy fix) "broken" 1960s era "JM" Marlin 39A for the kind of money The Lovely Bride and I have spent on gas, two tickets to a first run blockbuster movie, popcorn, soft drinks, and supper at a major chain steak house after the movie....I spent $15.00 + S&H for the three parts it took to return that 39A to perfect shooting condition. I later gifted that little jewel to one of my three best friends who, as the result of a break in of his home, had lost a 39A left to him by his father. About two months later, at another pawn & gun, I spotted and purchased on the spot, a pre safety, pre Winchester bankruptcy/Japanese production '94 in what I feel was "like new, never loaded, never fired" condition for $300.00 +tax. That rifle is, if things work out, destined for conversion to .38-55. I did take it deer hunting last season here in South Carolina and fond memories of my first real deer rifle, a 1968 production '94 purchased with paper route money, reserviced. So though it's not the more "desirable and collectable" version, it IS a good shooter and I'm going to be holding onto it even if it never sees conversion to my long dreamed of .38-55! Excellent video as usual! Keep 'em comin'!

[@TargetSuite]

Thanks. I always appreciate your comments!

[@ChuckTruitt]

I really like my 1958 Model '94 in 30-30 Win. -Gunny T sends

[@TargetSuite]

Amen! Sounds like you got a good one.

[@stephenclemence5856]

I bought my model 94 from Woolworth in 1979. At the time you could buy the Winchester, or the model 336 Marlin for $99.00. I bought the Winchester, and a week later I bought the Marlin. I still have the Winchester. Both in 30-30 caliber. Serial number starts with 4 million...

[@TargetSuite]

👍👍