TBI vs TPI! 2023 KTM 300XC vs 2021 KTM 300XCW Erzberg

[@largejoseph7914]

The simplicity of the tbi is great. I like that you mix gas on them, gives peace of mind that an oil pump won’t fail and run the bike without premix. Great looking bikes, can’t wait to try one.

[@mxengineer1]

Yes no worries about oil pump failures when mixing gas

[@bcoffroadriding7001]

the 2023 definitely sounds like it runs much cleaner and crisper! To have it match the low RPM response of the TPI bike (but cleaner and crisper!) I would consider testing a G2 Throttle tube with the 400 cam installed ($89), I bet that would give you the best of both worlds, very smooth and controllable off idle like TPI, but crisp and clean TBI !!

[@mxengineer1]

They both run clean here in Ohio at 60F temps but throttle cams could be a way to dial in the power of the TBI engine

[@philip5798]

Please let us know how the XC does on the MX track! Is it a bike that can be reasonably used for both cross country and occasional mx ? Keen to hear if the big power compliments it more there than on the trail.

[@mxengineer1]

The '23 300XC engine will be more than capable on a moto track, especially in Map 2. The partial throttle linear and strong torque will make it feel similar to a 4-stroke. The XC suspension setting is fine for slow Vet moto riding while the 300SX will have a more moto focused suspension setting. Plan to ride it at Briarcliff MX this weekend.

[@mikesampont6091]

Nice job. So, harder hit in the power band translates to quicker arm pump. TBI=Arm Pump and shorter ride times...TPI=Smoother fast flowing power, longer ride times. Am I correct with saying that for...like 85% of the riders out there?

[@mxengineer1]

My 300 Erzberg TPI is not slow but is a more silky smooth power with a little less torque feel. the new 300 TBI engine makes probably 3~4 hp more than the TPI and it is still very controllable. I get arm pump riding a 125!

[@ScoOutDoors]

Just from the sound the TBI is much cleaner it’s like day and night between them 👍

[@mxengineer1]

The 300 TBI sounds crisp and the shorty silencer gives it the classic 2-stroke bark!

[@georgebaird3468]

You’ve said in earlier videos that the trans seems close to xc-w, how did they feel side by side?

[@mxengineer1]

I finally got the gearing chart and it is very close to an XCW. I posted a picture of the gearing chart in my Thumpertalk thread....www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1428059-2023-ktm-300xc-first-ride-believe-the-hype/?tab=comments#comment-17182251

[@texlee1640]

I feel like the TPI bike was a little cold, but none the less, the TBI does have more of that old two-smoke instant pipe hit. If you tried a different head on the TPI bike I bet you'd find more low end grunt than the stock TBI, if you care. I have a 2023 300 XC-W and for typical woods riding it has the perfect linear power delivery but if I were racing hair scrambles or on the MX track I could see myself wanting for a new TBI bike. It'll be interesting to see if the XC-W's keep TPI going forward or if the entire lineup will have TBI in 2024/25. I don't see my TPI 300 going anywhere anytime soon.

[@mxengineer1]

Yes TBI does not obsolete TPI and my '21 300 Erzberg with TPI and oil injection is sticking around! TBI is a great option with a unique engine character that I am really enjoying now. Very cool that KTM is still developing 2-strokes!

[@CODIAK13]

Great video as usual! Some questions for you 1. Is the xc-w still your favorite bike to date? 2. Compared to your beta 300 race edition which of these ktm bikes do you think is more comparable? Im sure things from both bikes can be comparable, but as a whole which one? 3. Size wise do you feel the beta is better for taller riders? I think I have heard you mention you are fairly tall. As a 6’4 guy I’m worried the ktms are a little small from the factory for taller people.

[@mxengineer1]

Great questions! 1. I prefer the stronger roll torque and peak power of the XC/TX300 TBI engines over the TPI. 2. I am torn between my 2023 Husky TX300 and 2023 Beta 300 Race Edition. I love the big power of the Husky. I love the super smooth power and quick steering of the Beta. I've done plenty of back to back videos of the TX300 vs 300RE and really like both and have held onto both bikes. 3. I am 6'2" tall and both TX300 and 300RE feel good stock ergonomically. I get a sense the Beta footpegs are mounted a tick farther back (more trials bike like). The stock Beta handlebars are very low rise but feel OK to me. I really like the bend of the stock Husky TX300 Pro Taper bars Here are recent 300 throw down videos.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYOTf3hjnN90jbM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mn_ViKmlgdN8p6s

[@Superdisco199]

I know the TBi plays a big role, but it is possible that the XC is also tuned for more performance. An XCW version might be more mild (I don't think anyone knows what KTM is doing yet tho ?). The XC looked like a handful when you did a wheel stand on it, I'm thinking the 250XC might be a really nice trade off. I like that they widened up the gearboxes (Although 250xcf always had same width as 500exc).

[@Superdisco199]

6th gear is missing from your graph ?

[@mxengineer1]

My guess is the TBI 300 starts with about 3~4 more hp than a similar TPI 300 (XC or XCW). Then factor in electronic power valve operated by the ECU with plenty of inputs so the power can optimized. The 300 TBI feels noticeably stronger from low to mid and partial throttle roll on torque feel. My dealer friend that rode all the bikes at the show said the 250XC felt about perfect to him - plenty of low to mid power and simply less powerful than the 300XC so easier to control in the woods. 6th gear is the same on all the bikes so it looks like it is missing in the graph. So with the 23 300XC gearbox being lower ratios it is possibly to put a smaller sprocket on the rear and get close to the old XC ratios then have a very tall 6th gear for cruising on the open trails or desert

[@mitchculb780]

Interested comparison, really think the main difference is the new tires on the TBI at least for tight woods riding, both great bikes for sure. My 2020 300 xc has been stone reliable, might be time to bust a move for the TBI? Well, I can dream!

[@mxengineer1]

Yea the tires are done on the 300 Erzberg but it has WP Pro component suspension! Big difference in feel when you ride them back to back!

[@gophop]

just get an injector relocation kit

[@mxengineer1]

@@gophopWould be interested to ride a modified TPI bike. I think the all new '23 300 TBI engine has other revisions along with an electrically controlled power valve that helps the engine make probably 3~4 more HP over the stock TPI engine.

[@alang3991]

Sounded like the TPI wasn’t warmed up when you started and the TBI was.

[@mxengineer1]

You are very observant! The Erzberg 300 was sitting for a bit before the back to back ride and it cooled down a little (that was the little stutter at the start - never does that when fully warmed up).

[@philip5798]

TPI didn’t sound as clean running, especially in the first few minutes of your ride. TBI sounded like a perfectly jetted carb right from the get go!

[@mxengineer1]

The TPI bike cooled off before I started the lap - should have fully warmed it up. It runs perfectly once warm

[@scannorse]

Why then all the hazzle with injection, sensors, electronics and cold start seizing when a carb could do the job?

[@hktcss]

@@scannorse emissions control. Most countries have gone that way unfortunately and can’t import bikes if they don’t meet the emission rating

[@scannorse]

@@hktcss well, carb bikes also meets emmission control req.

[@gophop]

@@scannorse but they don't

[@jetdr]

I like how the XC rolls on low end power much better. I don’t mind mixing gas, what Fuel are you using?

[@mxengineer1]

I run premium unleaded (93 octane from local Shell gas station) mixed at 60:1 with Motorex 2-stroke oil.

[@jetdr]

@@mxengineer1 Just wondering if pump 93 worked, I currently have a 2009 yz250 set up for woods, it does not like anything less than 95 non ethanol. You put pump gas and it will sign off half throttle. another reason I need a Ktm!!

[@onthethrottle7104]

The TPI was cold when you started and you could hear the cutout on it. I don't think those two runs were a good way for anyone to gauge which one is faster, etc. When you got back with the TPI you were taking your time to look at that your watch, etc. but the TBI you were in a hurry the whole time. I think the TPI has much better throttle control, more linear.

[@mxengineer1]

Yes it was a cool day and the 300XCW sat long enough to need a short straight to get fully warmed back up (you are good at the details). I try to ride with the same effort on both bikes. Laptimes are just added for some additional comparison data. The TPI Erzberg is very smooth power yet a little weaker off idle then kind of picks up power where the TBI is still smooth but a little stronger off idle linearly builds power (quickly). If you rode them back to back you might find the TBI engine has smoother (thought quicker) torque build. One of the reasons I do wheelies - easy to check the linearity of partial throttle response and torque build. No plans on selling my 300 Erzberg as I love the gas and go and silky smooth engine. Some slow putting around this past weekend on my 300 TBI...even in Map 2 (aggressive) power is still easy to control... kzbin.info/www/bejne/mobTeYBtp55nobs

[@cliveneilands1449]

Did they sort out the radiator hose too close to the power valve cover bolt?

[@mxengineer1]

I need to look closely! Radiator hoses do have a new crimp style clamp

[@chrischerry415]

What’s your camera and mic set up it sounds extremely good!?

[@mxengineer1]

Thanks! Just a GoPro 7 Black with the GoPro mic adaptor and a cheap gaming mic all mounted on a Dango chin bar mount (mic ends up on the inside of the helmet). I can talk in normal conversation and it is pretty clear and the bike engine sounds are there too.

[@jgk200]

Just Picked Up 23 Erzberg 300xcw luv it…. Is that a private area to ride? Located in Columbus Oh

[@mxengineer1]

Congratulations on your new 300 Erzberg! Such a good bike and really enjoy riding mine '21 Erzberg. The area is private - a buddy's farm

[@goneridingparts]

Don't know what state your in, but we have a great Single Track loop in Eastern KY at the Daniel Boone National Forest. I have GPX files on it. 70-80 mile loop.

[@mxengineer1]

I bet those are some awesome trails! I am in central Ohio

[@goneridingparts]

@@mxengineer1 Yes sir, it's called "REDBIRD" I have seen riders come from N.C. and other states to ride it.

[@chrisdunn2544]

Definitely tell the differance tbi more of a free revenge engine and the torque was noticeble

[@mxengineer1]

You can feel the extra low to mid response on the TBI and there is more intake noise too (most likely due to the more open airbox intake on the new model)

[@tmlpony]

Great Video! you were much faster on that Tbi,, i notice the Tbi roll on was more crisp to,,tpi has a little bit stuttering(just like my 250xcw) i bet the 250xc Tbi would run sweet in the tight stuff.. but i do like your 300xcw,my 250 has the cone forks too,gotta love them!

[@mxengineer1]

Glad you enjoyed the video. My Erzberg was sitting for a bit and cooled off enough to stutter a little at the start of the video. Never does that when warmed up. TBI is STRONG!!! I really like WP CV's...work so well.

[@tmlpony]

@@mxengineer1 ah yes my 20 250 takes a good min to warm up to,,, ok go buy a 23 250xc now lol

[@mxengineer1]

@@tmlpony My one dealer buddy said the '23 250XC is perfect - he liked it better than the 300XC and said it is the sleeper bike for 2023 models....maybe you can confirm for us!

[@tmlpony]

@@mxengineer1 I just might have to do that,,im 170lbs 5'9 so yes the 250 is perfect,just throw on my cv forks..

[@tmlpony]

@@mxengineer1 Hey did ya buddy like the electric start? does it come on quick?? thats a must for racing,,we do all dead engine starts.

[@sao007]

tbi sound definitly more cleaner no bug on quarter throttle

[@mxengineer1]

Yes the 300 TBI engine is sharp and the shorty silencer is not too loud and has a nice classic 2-stroke bark to it

[@Eberger82]

Do you mix your gas at the recommended 60:1?

[@mxengineer1]

Yes 60:1 with Motorex 2-stroke oil as recommended in the owners manual. Zero spooge on the silencer

[@jarredtremain4644]

Sic mate. I'm riding 2018 husky te300, last of carby. Had few ktm300exc before. Crazy power on mine but all mates tpi,tbi bikes get way better fuel economy. But alot smoother. I'm working in mechanical side of husqvarna shop so thought better switch. Wish I still had Brembo brakes and Keihin carb. Otherwise sic. Will upgrade with new bike when can afford. Keep rippin up the 2bangas mate. Don't leave them alone. Avagud1

[@mxengineer1]

Sounds great!

[@chinaisassho7306]

I think subconsciously you went a little harder on the new bike?? I got vicarious buyers remorse just thinking about the erzberg being faster on the loop. Both incredible machines, congratulations and thanks for the comparison.

[@mxengineer1]

Ha Ha! My 300 Erzberg has been the lap time king on the longer (about 7 minute loop)....need to do the long loop back to back and put some new tires on the Erzberg!

[@chinaisassho7306]

@@mxengineer1 hell yeah! Love the content, real world average joe testing I can relate to. Subscribed!!

[@phillipmunro2421]

Is Tbi going back to a carburetor?

[@mxengineer1]

From the point of view of where fuel enters the engine TBI and carburetor are basically the same!

[@dawnmiller1388]

Where's the power valve setting on the 21. Has a lot to do with linear power.

[@mxengineer1]

Yes the PV setting can make a change in change in the power feeling. I run the '21 300 Erzberg PV about 1 turn out from the factory setting for a little more lively response. The overall character of the TPI vs TBI engines is different. The all new TBI engine has an electronic PV which can be tuned depending depending on a lot of inputs - not just engine rpm.

[@motofunk1]

Any info on fuel mileage yet? Comparable or is their a difference?

[@mxengineer1]

Sorry no fuel runs yet and nothing stands out as using more (or less) fuel than my 300 Erzberg

[@motofunk1]

@@mxengineer1 Keep us posted if you see changes. Thanks.

[@CliffordGross]

Had a 2020 300TPI, loved it! My 300XC is on order. Should be here this month.

[@mxengineer1]

Congratulations on your new bike!

[@r1deftone]

Probably not a fair comp with worn tires on the '21?

[@r1deftone]

you mentioned that at the end.

[@mxengineer1]

Yes the '21 300 Erzberg has original tires which are well rounded. The trail is dry and hard pack to perhaps not such a big disadvantage. However the Erzberg has WP Pro component suspension...which is really really good and can make even worn tires feel good!

[@gophop]

any interest in tuning your TPI?

[@mxengineer1]

I like how smooth and clean the TPI engine runs in my '21 300XCW Erzberg. I did turn the PV out about 1 turn to liven up the throttle response a little.

[@jwinter228]

@@mxengineer1 I did the TSP head and ECU and it made a huge difference in low end pull on my 250 tpi.

[@mxengineer1]

@@jwinter228 I am sure there is more power and response to be had with ECU tuning and higher compression heads on a 250/300TPI engine. Sounds like you have your 250 TPI dialed!

[@adambatchelder4121]

Remember its half injector location and half power valve control is better with electric control.

[@mxengineer1]

Yes the combination of an ECU controlling the injection and power valve position based on a lot of inputs! It works!

[@craigjarvis9677]

👍👍

[@enduro-parts-aus]

it even sounds more like a carb

[@mxengineer1]

I agree!

[@Learn-more610]

TPI always sounds like ass. Every one I've listened to.

[@onthethrottle7104]

Come listen to mine, it's as crisp as they come and then some...