Which character was most HATED out of all the Smash Bros game?

[@kestrel7493]

12:14 legendary tweet! For those who don't know, n0ne was getting wobbled in tournament so he took out his phone and tweeted this because he know he had time

[@isaakludwig8807]

Oh gosh that is insanely epic. Gotta love salty smash players.

[@bandibandibandibandi]

Oh my god that is amazing

[@beebs56]

@@isaakludwig8807 I hate when people are called salty for getting mad when they're getting wobbled or 0 to deathed. I feel like their anger is justified because the other player is being an asshole

[@beebs56]

And also being camped out

[@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569]

Apparently melee is the best though.

[@yobin3711]

Fun fact: Cloud in Smash 4 Doubles was statistically more dominant than Meta Knight was in Brawl Singles.

[@mr.catfish1993]

Who the fuck cares about doubles ?

[@JohnsFilmz4]

@@mr.catfish1993 facts

[@BIGAMBERFAN]

well yeah but isn’t that expected? if you have a 4 player gamemode it’s just naturally gonna be more likely to have a given character in a match than in a 2 player gamemode

[@kyloren1674]

@@mr.catfish1993 oh crap opinion given

[@shinobuoshinoisbestgirl5778]

@@BIGAMBERFAN that’s the joke

[@santiagoherrera1853]

Interesting fact: apparently when MkLeo killed the Ridley player with the Bayonetta 0 to death in the smash bros ultimate demo, the developers and employees sitting next to Sakurai saw him shake his head when it happened like "crap, she's still BUSTED"

[@adamice2526]

To be fair I don't think plup knew how to DI bayo stuff but still funny regardless lmao

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

Leo low key saved Ultimate by doing that. Thank you Leo

[@waffleman8053]

It was on an illegal sage with hazards on to be fair.

[@santiagoherrera1853]

@@waffleman8053 so? The combo still worked just like in smash 4 WITHOUT using items and the stage was very similar to the legal stages, the items and stage did nothing

[@waffleman8053]

@@santiagoherrera1853 Ridley lost a whole stock from the bombs on Green Greens, Also she was comboing RIDLEY! the character that is famous for being "Too big".

[@SinisterPixel]

MKLeo was a martyr for Smash Ultimate. He did the Bayo ladder combo during the exhibition and got booed for it, but you know Sakurai was watching, and that ladder combo alongside the boos is the reason we can't ladder combo in Ultimate

[@malmasterson3890]

Exactly, after the match a lot of top players convinced the community that he did what needed to be done & that we should be thanking hin for showcasing it.

[@ricky18redblack31]

You are right, and the fans let Sakurai know their feelings twards Bayonetta

[@resean2727]

bruh wym Bayo we have now is better than the one in the invitational, multiple buffs and she's pretty decent now.

[@InkyGhoul]

@@resean2727 You know she can't ladder combo, right? You know you can SDI out of it, right?

[@resean2727]

@@InkyGhoul You know you could DI out of Bayo combos in the invitational build right? You know she was able to perform a ladder combo on Ridley, a big body character right? You know one of the stocks Ridely lost was to a item right?

[@TriforceZard]

It didn’t help that one of the best Bayonetta players was a genuine piece of garbage outside of the character irl

[@DunkTasticMan]

Who was it? I don’t know a lot about smash four.

[@ragnarok3703]

There were like four top bayos that were bad people outside the game lol

[@larrymoments2492]

@@DunkTasticMan CaptainZack

[@gersoncelaya7574]

@@DunkTasticMan I think it was CaptainZack, he did some horrible stuff thinking he'd always be safe because he was a minor

[@DunkTasticMan]

@@gersoncelaya7574 Alright thanks.

[@premonitiative]

"Stop being a f*cking asshole" Liked and subbed just for that one line

[@creeper6593]

same

[@malik1422]

you should've been subbed, this guy is awesome

[@medievaltrap7285]

@@malik1422 your my sub ;)

[@aguyontheinternet3306]

That censor sound

[@duckbacon3117]

Your not even gonna give a timestamp :( Edit: I found it, the timestamp is 2:53 Thanks for nothing :)

[@jml6263]

Hungrybox is such an icon. The amount of salt he mined with his own two hands is more entertaining to me than a Fox mirror could ever be. And he did it against top tiers not with top tiers.

[@kotzer71]

@Sauercloud - Smash Bros nobody even thought that till hungrybox

[@kotzer71]

@Sauercloud - Smash Bros not really mango dropped puff pretty early

[@jesuspernia8031]

@Sauercloud - Smash Bros I’m gonna say if Hbox never played Smash at all, Puff would not be in the place she is in the tier list today.

[@SaarlaneKretiin]

@@jesuspernia8031 true, he is the only jiggs in the top 100 in the game's lifespan. M2K played him a little at some point but quickly dropped it, while also maining peach a strong aerial champ.

[@smoceany9478]

even the furthest down on the tier list i could see her going shes a high tier

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

There's not even a debate about what's hated. bayo in smash 4 is WAAAY worse than any thing in melee. In fact I would put brawl over melee just for meta knight alone.

[@chairwood]

where do u put ur style of zetter

[@cloudshines812]

I literally despise players in Brawl or 4Smash that main Meta or Bayo. They just have no life because they’re busted…

[@near5148]

I also hate bayo

[@lucaskincanyon7393]

Yeah. Bayonetta in smash 4 was a joke. So broken and just frustratingly easy to use. Low tiers like what I used (Shulk, about mid C tier) was embarrassingly 0 to bodied in like, 11-12 hit combos. And if I was in shield, I literally would get carried to the blast zone. 😭

[@crabnebula1816]

@@cloudshines812 so how about Ice climbers? They have to be just as bad, if not worse, right?

[@kingbash6466]

My most hated Smash character is Sakurai. Dude’s so busted, he can erase and summon characters entirely. Needs a major nerf.

[@LelouchOnTwi]

Thata why hes being replaced with a new character in the next installment

[@thepotatogodaka.chrisfb1626]

@@LelouchOnTwi thats harsh

[@nickcage6389]

Clever

[@zcrpt6715]

waluigi mains petition his ban

[@nickcage6389]

@@zcrpt6715 cry some more

[@TheUnknownsShow]

Cloud would probably have become the most hated Smash 4 character if not for Bayonetta. Bayonetta being in a whole different league of broken saved Cloud from what would have been an enormous amount of vitriol from the community.

[@CarbonMalite]

I don't see Cloud being hated nearly as much as other really hated characters, but he probably would be hated a decent amount. Cloud players even picked up Bayo because Cloud wasn't airtight perfect like her

[@kazzfuchsia1073]

I think being Cloud definitely made people hate him less. Like Smash is also a fun party game with your favorite characters so being a well know protagonist from a beloved game did lots to save him from hate.

[@kyurei4478]

Fax.

[@papersonic9941]

Except for Doubles players.

[@Sinha010]

No, Cloud had a very exploitable recovery. It was his weak spot.

[@galegopaulista4564]

Man, I kinda feel bad for the Ice Climbers. It's not really their fault that they had such annoying glitches. At least in Ultimate desyncs are actually really cool.

[@dahomie253]

True tho, and in ultimate the desyncs aren’t free you gotta earn them

[@equinox-XVI]

And the best part about ultimate's desyncs is that they are not 100% true combos. Thank's to being able to tech footstools, it's entirely possible to tech out of some of the flashy desyncs. And the ones you can't tech out of usually aren't 0-deaths. It takes what used to be one player playing the game to an interaction of chasing and escaping the combo for both players.

[@noice8911]

Too bad icies get camped so hard in this game and don’t have much of an answer like they did with wobbling

[@ChiodosBlowsDogs]

Exactly this. I don't think it's that a character can do completely broken stuff that pisses people off so much, its when you don't have to work very hard to be able to do such devastating stuff. Like IC's desync combos in Ult I don't know very many people who hate ICs in Ult mostly because, I think people respect the grind and effort it takes to be able to coax that murder train out of them. I think Fox would have been the most hated character in Melee if he was baby easy ( I know some people definitely hate him) but, because, his tech and skill ceilings are so high it takes lots of dedication to be a sick Fox. All, that said people should be bullying and accosting people for their smash main, I main line smash like every other smash junky but, it's just a game even if it's more than a game to a lot of us.

[@gran8831]

@@ChiodosBlowsDogs Probably you wrote it bad becouse of the previous text but you said that people SHOULD bully others becouse their smash mains

[@tylersmith5282]

Are we gonna talk about how Leo saved ultimate from bayos second reign of terror by showing her brokenness in front of sakurai

[@ValToadstool]

bayo was a balanced high tier in the e3 build I'm so sad we lost her

[@tylersmith5282]

@@ValToadstool She's a very balanced mid tier now, with good combos and one really specific zero to death, instead of 3 that are easy to hit and work on any character. I think she's pretty cool now versus her smash 4 predecessor.

[@Averdein]

@@tylersmith5282 she’s low tier… there’s nothing bayo can do if the opponent doesn’t approach, she has no neutral game and a lot of her moves gave unecessary jank that only make them worse than they need to be.

[@tylersmith5282]

@@Averdein I disagree but I can see where you're coming from with that, I think her combo game is what lifts her up just a bit more than low tier

[@MetaKnight68]

@@Averdein didn't the jab buff making it a kill confirm give her a powerful new option though

[@vitaming582]

I think part of the crowd's reaction from Leo vs Plup wasn't just Bayo. It was also the first time we saw much Ridley gameplay, and Ridley's inclusion was unthinkable before that E3. So to have the first time you see a good player get their hands on Ridley lead to a ladder combo off the top, that was fuel poured on the fire.

[@malmasterson3890]

People really didn't hate on Leo for it though, a lot of peopleactually thanked him because it put on display just how busted the character still was, and showcasing to sakurai what he had to do. Evwryone gave a lot of shit to the balance patches at first, but sakurai has done such a great job balancing ultimate these past few years.

[@Deme_Diora666]

@@malmasterson3890 she was a balanced high tier at that show case. I hate leo for doing that. Bayonetta was nerfed to bottom 5 after that and has only slowly crawled her way back up to mid tier. No other character other than kirby has been gutted that hard for little reason other than salt.

[@lukebyru1520]

@@Deme_Diora666why do you hate Leo for that?

[@Deme_Diora666]

@@lukebyru1520 because it was more than obviously on purpose. People who like that she got nerfed that hard also agree leo knew exactly what he was doing. I just think it’s shitty to do that too a character on purpose cause you’re salty about an old game. She didn’t need to be nerfed that hard and the struggle it has been to main a character that was once considered almost as bad an ganondorf and try and have fun has been more than annoying.

[@lukebyru1520]

@@Deme_Diora666 your hating somebody by assuming, not even knowing they did it intentionally, Leo probably tried bayonetta to see if she was still busted

[@gonzaurra1]

I never understood the "ban Puff" on Melee wobbling I totally get it but Puff is just an annoying to play character but it wasn't an unfair one. In mayors Fox, Falco, Sheik and Marth were still doing great. Puff was campy and boring but not game breaking

[@TDG386]

Don't worry, players didn't realisticlly wanted puff banned, only redditors

[@lloydbagby8355]

@@TDG386 yah puff is not bad more then I say annoying attest it not bawl with metaknight

[@TDG386]

@@lloydbagby8355 the Main problem with MK is that he was everywhere, and he was dumbly busted, but that aren't really solid reasons to hate Meta-Knight in comparison to Icies (Meta-Knight could be sick, flashy if the player wanted to, Icies couldn't. Meta-Knight had everything in his kit except a degenerate, unbeatable combo or move, Icies entire meta revolves on something as disgusting as "one grab=one stock", and like Bayo, Icies players Discovered handoffs chaingrabs at the last turn of Brawl popular age, and Meta-Knight was something everyone in Brawl get usted to it (i mean, the Best player in Brawl was every year a Meta-Knight main, with only once losing his throne to icies in 2014) ).

[@lloydbagby8355]

@@TDG386 yah and why ice climbers got nuffed in ultimate

[@EE_etcetera]

Problem with puff is that to beat Puff you have to play Puff, play Fox, or maybe play Falco or Marth. Plus she has one of the best punish games with being super floatly, having the best crouch in the game going under 90% of grabs, having an insta kill move except on certain characters on certain stages, and having the best recovery in the game. In Melee, a large amount of the punish game is edge guarding. Thus, this made the punish game against puff very little and imo weighted the punish game in her favor in basically all match ups even Fox. For marth specifically, you had to use a technique that was about a 1 frame input to even have a punish game against her.

[@ianoliver2224]

Even though Meta Knight was a total bitch to fight and was literally everywhere, you have to admit, he’s rad to play as. I feel like it also emulates how he is in his own games. He’s a total bitch to fight against, but he’s fun as fuck when you get to play as him because he just mows through the competition.

[@castform7]

Yeah, even when being played against, at least your fighting agaist someone with some awesome, flashy moves. I also agree with him being like his games. Hard to fight cause he doesn't really have a pattern in his battle and just does some cool shit and an absolute joyride when playing as him.

[@TDG386]

Galaxia is the strongest sword canonically, so it's dumb, but is an explenation of why Meta-Knight was Transcendent with every move that usted galaxia except drill rush.

[@tyruslee726]

Mk dittos were some of the most entertaining sets in brawl

[@goldy9428]

I actually like playing as and against him

[@randumo24]

That's why he isn't the most hated despite being the best character in the history of the entire series, and one of the most best characters in fighting game history. You still get to play the game, and it's still entertaining to watch. What people hate are characters like ICs, especially the melee version that just get a grab and tap a, and win stocks for free without you getting to play.

[@BeyondFables]

It actually isn’t too accurate to say Jigglypuff saw her rise in Melee due to Hbox. Mango was the best player with her in 08/09 and it wasn’t until later that Hbox broke through. Even then he was one of the less dominant gods until 2015 onwards

[@jungleberrypie]

the mang0 puff arc

[@SoManySharks]

This is a massive omission and is indicative of a real lack of understanding behind how Puff earned her reputation in the community. Puff was already plenty hated during Mang0's rise to #1, but not to nearly the same extent as when Hbox became the face of the character. If you watch their Puffs side by side it becomes incredibly apparent why that was; Mang0 and Hbox's playstyles were polar opposites, and crowd reactions to them mirrored that dichotomy. It didn't help that some of Hbox's many contributions to the character's meta included things like planking on the ledge for the entire 8 minute timer, and standing up during sets in order to see his opponent's DI on their controller. Contrasting how people lost their minds watching Mang0's Puff at Genesis 1 vs how crowds have reacted to 90% of Hbox's sets throughout Melee's history does a really good job illustrating how Hbox's approach to the game painted the community's perception of the character every bit as much as the character herself

[@BeyondFables]

@@SoManySharks I wasn’t talking about the character being hated. I don’t at all disagree that the massive hate for Puff in large part came in response to Hbox due to his style of play (which Mango obviously contrasts with but Mango was also loved despite Puff for Mango reasons lol), I was just saying that it was known she was a great character before Hbox. Also, as far as I know the DI thing was hardly common and definitely isn’t now, it really doesn’t have much to do with anything beyond a bit of extra ammo to use against Hbox. A more relevant out of game thing Hbox has been hated for is his refusal to play friendlies with top players, to limit their ability in the matchup. Even the planking isn’t usually *that* prevalent, a lot of it is just keeping to the side of the stage in general especially around platforms and boxing out approaches. And it’s worth noting that despite the widespread hate of Puff very much coming with Hbox, top players like Armada and M2K definitely hated this character even before Hbox’s rise, due to Mango.

[@SoManySharks]

@@BeyondFables I was talking about the poster of the video BTW, not you. Though I agree with pretty much everything you said

[@Tommy2_0]

@@BeyondFables people were hating on puff back when mango was playing her. We got that legendary scar commentary moment because of how much he hated her. Iirc, mango switch to prove to everyone he wasn't carried by puff and was tired of dealing with the hate

[@omg2manyusers]

I agree with the message this video sends. It's fine to hate a character, especially if they're legitimately busted, but it's *never* okay to hate a player because they play that character. (Other reasons might apply, but the character shouldn't be one under most circumstances)

[@pinkzki6473]

See I agree but then again, if a character has a broken mechanic and as a player you exploit it to win, I think it’s fair to give them some shit for it. Now like in melee where hbox used puff, that’s not reason to cause it’s not the character broken mechanics you hate, you simply just don’t like the play style and think it’s boring. But an exploit that literally deletes stocks and you use it to your advantage, well at that point I also blame the player.

[@jambon2730]

@@pinkzki6473 If it's an exploit then you shouldn't blame the player but Nintendo If there's a problem then it need to be patched

[@Hi-fd4cw]

People from r/smashrage need to hear this

[@ricky18redblack31]

@@jambon2730 my dude quit protecting those players. Any gamer that uses exploits and glitches to get the upperhand in the game are just arsholes.

[@sonicboom126]

As understandable as that is you have to understand that toxic people really don't give any damns. This has being going on since melee. Gonna have to accept it since smash is a broken tier toxic community.

[@monkeman8759]

Smash players have feelings “Young link players have no soul” -little Z

[@calcium6253]

As a young link main this is true

[@Breederofchaos2011]

Well, if young link players have no soul, looks like I’m in that crowd, since the eyes are the key to the soul, and I have no vision.

[@TheDarknash]

Players of all versions of link for.that matter 90% of.them are just F spammers

[@tamoozbr]

@@TheDarknash as a link main i can say i don't use any f-attack

[@taze1856]

@@TheDarknash brub who do you main

[@brodie9557]

11:59 Can we just look at the fact that Chudat is literally mashing one button (left, Ice Climbers)

[@mr.sheeppeehs4204]

Lol

[@bennybeebop1754]

He's also pressing right trigger but the point still stands

[@kkmac7247]

Yayuhhhz

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

💀💀💀

[@UNSCMarine117]

8:11 *Meta Knight gets killed off of one grab* People who hated him for being OP: "perhaps I judged you to harshly"

[@hunterterrat9105]

Lol

[@UNSCMarine117]

@Jackson C Meta Knight is top tier? Huh...

[@Venandi_]

Ah yes smash 4, the game that made me think SDI meant ‘self-destruct immediately’ when bayonetta came out

[@AJ_Steele]

10:50 Translation: “I quit melee because hbox was better than me”

[@KylieKyubii]

I did not expect to see myself in this video at 7:12 from when I got completely destroyed in the Xanadu Brawl Arcadian lmao. That was one hell of a throwback.

[@lucaskincanyon7393]

Lol. Nice.

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

Rip lmao

[@dereklewis4321]

Pika and Meta knight were OP but Bayo legit killed the scene for s4.

[@alfredpeverly2093]

Nah man, it was already dead by then. Honestly I think what really killed it was Zero Retiring along with the new game being announced.

[@Oh-Ben]

@@alfredpeverly2093 Not when MKLeo was on the rise. Zero admitted one factor to retiring was because he knew he couldn't win vs MKLeo. MKLeo was Smash 4's hero, using Marth who wasn't seen as high tier yet. He could beat Clouds, and he was the best shot for beating Bayo. The question people asked was if he could of made it to EVO 18 could he of prevented grand finals. If he quit the game, it would of died. Mind you EVO 18 was the last major for Smash 4 and it drew it 1.3K entrants. It wasn't dead.

[@Endershock1678]

@@alfredpeverly2093 Cloud also didn't help. Being such an easy yet broken character who covered basically all of Bayo's bad MU'S (all two of them) basically eliminated the counterpick meta.

[@Alushu]

would love to see every smash veteran character's best performing game, that would be really neat

[@Panbow_]

I bet you the last dlc character will be part of the broken family, but who tho🤔

[@malmasterson3890]

Pikachu & Kirby: 64 Samus, Falcon, Fox, & Jigglypuff: Melee Mario, Luigi & Dk: Smash 4 Yoshi, Ness & Link: Ultimate EDIT: Yoshi, Mario & Samus are the biggest toss-ups imo, so I think that's where the most interesting debates on such a topic would be had.

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

Oh I thought you meant how well their original games sold and which game in that series sold best

[@emanueltheodorus1056]

Mario: Smash 4 Donkey Kong: Smash 4 Link: Ultimate Samus: Ultimate Yoshi: Ultimate Kirby: 64 Fox: Melee Pikachu: 64 Luigi: Smash 4 Ness: Ultimate Captain Falcon: Melee Jigglypuff: Melee Peach: Tied Melee/Ultimate Bowser: Ultimate Ice Climbers: Brawl Sheik: Smash 4 Zelda: Ultimate Dr. Mario: Melee Pichu: Ultimate Falco: Melee Marth: Melee Lucina: Ultimate Young Link: Ultimate Ganondorf: Melee Mewtwo: Smash 4 Roy: Ultimate Mr. Game & Watch: Ultimate Meta Knight: Brawl Pit: Brawl Dark Pit: Ultimate Zero Suit Samus: Smash 4 Wario: Ultimate Snake: Tied Brawl/Ultimate Ike: Ultimate Pokemon Trainer: Ultimate Diddy Kong: Smash 4 Lucas: Ultimate Sonic: Tied Smash 4/Ultimate King Dedede: Brawl Olimar: Brawl (Ultimate before nerf) Lucario: Smash 4 R.O.B.: Ultimate Toon Link: Tied Brawl/Smash 4/Ultimate Wolf: Ultimate Villager: Smash 4 Mega Man: Ultimate Wii Fit Trainer: Ultimate Rosalina & Luma: Smash 4 Little Mac: Ultimate Greninja: Ultimate Mii Swordfighter: Ultimae Mii Brawler: Smash 4 Mii Gunner: Ultimate Palutena: Ultimate PAC-MAN: Ultimate Robin: Ultimate Shulk: Ultimate Bowser Jr: Ultimate Duck Hunt: Ultimate Ryu: Smash 4 Cloud: Smash 4 Corrin: Smash 4 Bayonetta: Smash 4 Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@worldsboss]

I stopped playing Ultimate mostly because of Yoshi. I eventually learned the matchup, but even when I won, I had such a horrible time playing against that character that I was no longer having fun with the game…

[@tyruslee726]

Yoshi makes me wanna throw my switch across the window lol

[@ML-sc3pt]

I'm a steve main so yoshi is easy for me. Just minecart spam lol

[@deoxysandmew2162]

I hear ya... Just take breaks so you dont get burned out. Thats how i usually cope with distaste of certain cringe factor the game can provide.

[@worldsboss]

@@deoxysandmew2162 Yeah I’m on an extended break from the Switch in general atm. Went back to my 3DS to fully get through my backlog, and I’m not returning to my Switch until that job is done!

[@deoxysandmew2162]

@@worldsboss fair game

[@nameforcomments4092]

I remember hearing something along the lines of "oh and that's the stock... oh right, he's coming back from that because Bayonetta. And there's a witch time, and that'll be game. There you go." The Smash 4 meta just died when Bayo dropped. Yeah using her was complicated, but it wasn't fun to even watch those matches. But hey, Brawl was that way from the beginning with Meta Knight. Just horrible, horrible balance. And look how many bloody people played Meta Knight in Brawl and then never again, and Bayo in 4 and then never again. "I just really like the character" my ass.

[@Underworlder5]

i call those people fairweather gamers. they stand by that character... until he/she/it drops from the meta, then they instantly gravitate towards the next top tier, and suddenly always liked it

[@SupermarketSweep777]

@@Underworlder5 For me I had kind of the opposite effect. In 4 I was a Palutena/Corrin main. But in Ultimate I dropped Corrin because gameplay wise, I just could not recapture the magic. Palutena stayed my main up until I Pyra/Mythra dropped and with testing I found better success with them. In a senes they were like my Corrin in 4. A swordfighter that played more unconventionally. Oddly despite Palutena's massive tier jump from 4 I kinda liked her old move set-up more.

[@esthersmith3056]

eh, not really. sm4sh went from "that game nobody likes because nobody can actually kill" to "that game nobody likes because only one character can actually kill". it was never a particularly popular game, like, there's a reason ultimate gets summits and sm4sh didnt (and, to be clear, i genuinely loved sm4sh)

[@Underworlder5]

@@SupermarketSweep777 interesting. i always found palutena a bit clunky and cumbersome in smash 4, to the point of being my least favorite to play. in ultimate she is one of my better characters. the increase in speed on her tilts and merging counter and reflect into one move helped immensely with that. ike has always been my favorite since brawl though. if only his games were not such a pain to get...

[@bestberryj]

First of all, I gotta say: the fact that this video's like ratio isn't garbage says a lot about the presentation. (Good job!) My only gripe is that you didn't look at the current state of melee all that much. Puff is still unpopular but as top players catch up to hbox, especially over the wifi era, his hate has decreased a lot. Or with ICs, even tho wobbling is banned, there is still an infinite they can do but it's harder to pull off and even a little flashy. Sadly there hasn't been a player to showcase that potential since the ban

[@ttraiin9974]

10:00 half true, mang0 pushed puff more than hbox did back when mang0 mained her, but when he switched for spacies, hbox was the only puff to push the caracter farther

[@Matthew_Cashew]

Nick:I Hate "Hate" Also Nick In Mario Party:FUTA, I HATE YOU VERNIAS

[@borkbork9541]

Surprised the infamous stalling situation at smash4 Evo finals wasn't mentioned when talking about Bayo, that shit was rancid. Though I suppose that was more about the players being awful and that went against the 'don't be an asshole' message.

[@ResistancePasta]

Are you referring to the two Bayos that charged Neutral-B for a ton of time?

[@borkbork9541]

@@ResistancePasta Aye yeah, the TOs had to get involved and told them to finish the match iirc.

[@bubbleslasher]

that was indeed shitty but god damn is it hilarious looking back

[@ResistancePasta]

@@borkbork9541 But I thought that those two players were doing that as revenge against everyone that harrassed them for playing Bayo?

[@borkbork9541]

@@ResistancePasta I'd argue all it did was cement Bayo as the character that destroyed interest in sm4sh competitively, but I'll admit I hadn't heard that side of the situation before.

[@sonicmeerkat]

My god I can see why the rest of the competitive community clowns on melee. "I might quit because of the jiggly matchup" Literally every game has annoying matchups and characters, yes it's fine to hate campy characters but this much? What the actual fuck lol

[@byronlyons3548]

Well, that's Leffen for ya, always whiny, if not pretty terrible for how toxic he can be. But did you see when Armada basically quit a tournament, for not having the "right" kind of "broken controller" to fit his needs? For how it seems to offer like a small fraction of an advantage, over most controllers. Armada being yet another Melee player, complains about pettiest things.

[@sonicmeerkat]

@@byronlyons3548 oh god the controller fuss lol, obviously don't think customs should be banned but like customisation should be cosmetic or for durability, the extra notches some guys add to make some combos easier to perform is clearly an unfair paid advantage. Actually find it kinda funny how pc competitive gaming actively tries to minimize the wealth advantage while console competitive will actively force people to ship overseas versions to get a specific patch available lol

[@gabrielmoravargas4728]

I swear Leffen is the biggest clown in all of melee

[@kieranm2774]

I love how he tries to send out a message to angry people who are just hating on other people just because they like another character. And also Jigglypuff was brought to Smash as a literal joke character

[@andrewstafford123]

Seriously, you’re going to QUIT because a character is broken?! EVERYTHING IN MELEE IS BROKEN! This is why people think it’s any good; it’s not the gameplay or the strategy, it’s the game breaking that people like.

[@TDG386]

Don't worry: 1. Plup didn't quit. 2. We wanted to a break from Hungrybox (yes, HBox, because N-O-B-O-D-Y was as good as HBox with the character except 2008-09 Mang0) AND wobbling.

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

“It’s a feature”

[@KasperWalking]

1:58 Steve: the more you don’t know… the better

[@lukedetering4490]

I think it's interesting the game with the most characters by far is suprisingly balanced and doesn't have that one character that is OP.

[@joshuamahase]

Everyone has at least one broken mechanic or move in the game. Most people who hate characters in ultimate just have a tough time playing against them, we all have to learn the matchup!!

[@Piggy24]

The lecture at the end *really* needs to be said to Blox Fruits players. The game is pretty unbalanced and the pvp meta is *wacc.* A large portion of the player base is a bunch of angry 13 year olds that will verbally murder you about every little thing.

[@megacharizard1356]

The fuck is blox fruits

[@Piggy24]

@@megacharizard1356 A video game.

[@CaptainMythic]

I am thirteen and I can disagree cause I don’t fucking have rights to speak cause I play on xbox

[@Piggy24]

@@CaptainMythic F

[@JasonAndroid]

@@megacharizard1356 He is talking about a game on Roblox

[@YRGHY2010]

Love these types of “smash history” videos.

[@ricky18redblack31]

I would still call out the players who abuses exploits and glitches to make the game annoying for others. They know what they are doing. Other than that stalking, harassment over some game, we know where the line is drawn

[@TheFluffyHyena]

*the smash 4 days* (Day 1) Oh Bayonetta was added to the game! I loved the Bayonetta games! I think im gonna main her (Day 2 Oh god she's actually super fun too! I love this character! (Goes to a tournament and gets bullied to the point of crying because they played Bayonetta and were just trying to have fun, sells their copy of Smash 4 and doesn't even think of playing Smash 4 again) I wasn't around in the smash 4 days but saw how she played then when i picked up ultimate and decided to main her, then got hooked on the Bayo series. I still kinda wanna get my hands on a copy of Smash 4 just to see how Bayo really feels to play compared to Ultimate

[@TheCommardbattl]

Mang0 was the first one to bring Jigglypuff to new heights, not Hbox

[@reubenscrivener-wallace135]

Nick, thank you for delivering this message in the form of a well edited, in depth video

[@careyscott1669]

Imagine the Steve section this video would have now haha.

[@Toge-Inumaki-2511]

To be honest, I don't really hate fighters in respectice games. They're alright. Now that ultimate has released, most of top-tier fighters were exposed to weaknesses, like Meta Knight became defenseless in the air, Bayo having low kill power, made easy for Ice climbers to be seperated and more. There's nothing to hate about those fighters anymore, as long as you have fun.

[@Lar_me]

Personal opinion: "Competitive" gaming is killing the industry. People only think about tournaments and the meta of the game instead of just having fun.

[@gabrielmoravargas4728]

Not that mant people play smash competitively

[@-fv]

you cant make a skill based game thats not competitive

[@Lar_me]

@@-fv Playing games with friends/family and trying to win is fun, but I mean eSports-style competition. That makes things too serious and takes away enjoyability.

[@Underworlder5]

@@Lar_me the competitive community does not kill the industry at all. fighting games, with their high learning curve and 1v1 structure, are inherently competitive. in more casual games like smash, the competitive community is a very small minority and does not reflect the game as a whole. besides, some people do think that researching the meta and trying to become the best of the best is fun. it might not be your definiton of fun, but others do enjoy it. i dislike horror games, but i do not go around on horror game videos and say "people only want to be scared instead of just having fun"

[@NovaSolarsis835]

this video might need a remake after the steve bans lmao

[@akumayoxiruma]

This video needs an update for the bullshit that is DLC characters in Smash Ultimate and their massive move pool, long attack range and busted counters. It's not fun when people can pay to win.

[@nickringer3913]

That mkleo clip as bayo is the reason that bayo is mid tier in ult. uo air could neverrr do what beta build up air could do.

[@ThatOneScienceGuy]

Even if he didn’t do that she likely would have been nerfed down the line

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

Thing does kill till like 270 now which is fair tbh

[@heyfrankevans]

A lot of people seem to think that people only play a character for the way they play when a lot of them just like the character itself.

[@KingTruffles]

I feel bad for the Sonic mains who decided to play one of the most iconic characters ever but get hate because of his playstyle

[@Underworlder5]

@@KingTruffles sonic is a cocky risk taker whose games have always taken speedrunning into consideration, yet his smash playstyle is safe and slow

[@antoineleblanc9229]

When i saw the title of the video i was like "How can you make a video about that" but i clicked anyway. Turned out to be a video with a lot of work and research behind. A rly interesting video thank you Nick

[@sgsgsgbogasa6421]

I definitely think you should have talked more about Smash4 Cloud, he was super easy to play so you'd see him all the time online and anyone could pick him up as a pocket character.

[@thesimiccombine3192]

Gonna be blunt, I think puff is hype as crap. Rest is super hard to land and is just insane when it either whiffs or hits. I just don't get how puff is having when fox camps just as much with his dumb laser.

[@jajajahdhdhshd9071]

Rly difficult yes

[@Shuriport]

Zoners in general are hype, just a shame that puff is """""not melee""""" so no one there even tries to enjoy and pop off for good stalling and neutral.

[@jajajahdhdhshd9071]

@@Shuriport good stalling rly fun to watch

[@MikeyCyan]

@@jajajahdhdhshd9071 nair, shine wavedash, nair shine, wavedash upsmash Dash dance, grab, up throw, up air. Cool, yes? Creative, yes?

[@jajajahdhdhshd9071]

@@MikeyCyan yes back air is alot cooler

[@EvolutionSTUD10S]

Steve: "Hold my mine cart."

[@peintheelite]

11:49 poor M2K, makes me wanna cry 🤣

[@alfredc.7777]

I’m a Bayo main and our top player representation was ass. Made us look bad.😏 Glad it’s changed now.

[@WaveAqualei]

Same

[@gameboyn64]

I recently had someone tell me that competitive roster balance is only good at surface value and that in actuality its better for the health of a competitive game to have a smaller centralized meta with fewer viable characters. After seeing 10:45 it makes sense that he would cite leffen.

[@SparklingAmy00]

The puff vs fox matchup in melee is probably the most interesting matchup in the whole series pairing the strongest offensive character with the strongest defensive character

[@SoraDonaldGoofy99]

I think the Jiggs hate is really bad. Like, someone threw a lobster or crab at Hungrybox after a game just because he played Puff. And like TCNick said, hate the character, not the player.

[@Changanator]

As jigglypuff main in every game, i know the feel of being hated

[@Endershock1678]

I respect the hell out of you. Brawl and 4 Puff wee hot garbage, and she is barely better in Ult.

[@givecamichips]

Cumulative hatred goes to Ice Climbers, easy. They've had a lot of years.

[@Richmykal1212]

15:20 The Stage They Played on has a Small Ceiling known for the low percent Deaths off the top or sides

[@jkchannellgkwafk674]

Didnt stop the fact it was still the cause for her major nerfs in ultimate

[@josephdouglas5242]

10:55 I don't know, any character that gets Leffen to quit makes me like them a whole lot more.

[@Sofishticated792]

I guess it's time to see brawl meta knight, smash 4 Bayonetta, ultimate G&W and... Ness

[@MartinMendoza2134]

N e s s

[@DunkTasticMan]

M i n M i n.

[@twotamatos]

Honestly I think kazuya is gonna start seeing some really big hate as his reflector kills at zero and he combos super easily to kill percents and Steve just doing nonsense up tilts and getting u caught to a spike without any option out is just broken for the sake of buy me and no actual balance and thought went into those 2 it’s really not even ur bad it’s just there actually busted characters those 2 I seriously would fight ness n g&w anytime hands down over those 2

[@DunkTasticMan]

@@twotamatos Why do you think I hate kazuya? Only thing that rivals him is min min.

[@twotamatos]

@@DunkTasticMan not saying u I hate him

[@goldeb1291]

My first thought: "Mii's". Some Places have very concentrated hate towards them. (looking at you, Finland.) Tons of Top players hate them, tons of lower level players hate them, tons of Ok players hate them, and not even because of the moveset. Because they are Mii's.

[@haywardbarrows5906]

0:22 I have found my kindred spirit in this age of game criticism

[@goldenhydreigon4727]

This is K. Rool erasure. Not because he's supee dominant, but because people are too slow to see he's actually High Tier instead of Low Tier

[@SmamelK]

Shocked you never mentioned Evo 2018

[@eeveewithcoffee9554]

I’m still surprised to people “taking a break or quitting Melee because of Puff” because there’s like two (Prince Abu and HungryBox) people who play Puff. It’s not like Meta Knight or Bayo or Pikachu or Cloud where there was a bunch of them in every tournament. There was like 2 and really only one good one

[@T1J]

metaknight completely ruined brawl which I maintain was otherwise a pretty deep game

[@tyruslee726]

At least he made the game somewhat engaging, because of his strengths metaknight could do what other characters couldn't which was making game fast paced

[@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771]

He was the only fun character tho

[@alejandromolina2802]

@@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771 I need to correct you, he was the only fun/engaging good character

[@bharadwajkk6823]

It was deep, although if it was faster (cough project m) with more movement options, it woulda been perfect

[@goldy9428]

At least he's fun to play as. He's also cool to Watch and Is flashy

[@Nate-em6pw]

We're forgetting about the sleaper most hated character. Sonic. Every local tournament in all of the 5 towns surrounding me ALL have sonic banned for him being a 7 minute camping simulator. Its actually insane.

[@virgiebabie6903]

I’m pretty sure Pikachu and Min Min are the most hated characters in Ultimate. Palutena is a close contender as wel

[@thephantomsplit]

I don't get the hate for Min Min. Why is she hated?

[@dothog1401]

@@thephantomsplit f-smash, (more specifically the dragon but they all suck), up-smash reflects because dlc privilege, makes the game incredibly lame, can smash attack in the air, and did I mention f-smash? Because it is fucking annoying.

[@thephantomsplit]

@@dothog1401 gotcha

[@rydrake9509]

ima sub to you because your smash videos were fun to watch even though i'm not a competitive guy myself i still enjoy smash videos quite a lot, and your theory was quite accurate i can always learn a thing or two from you keep going^^

[@samarthgour3026]

The totesgeki spam got me

[@WoopahNova]

Seeing MKLeo do that Bayo combo in Ultimate was actually really cool imo, probably because I suck at Bayo and also because of how unrewarding landing Bayo combos can feel sometimes, so to see it actually pay off and result in a kill is pretty neat.

[@vogunBurgundy]

I definitely figure Min Min is going to be the most disliked character in Ultimate, down the line. She has a very campy playstyle, her weaknesses up close aren't nearly as salient as other zoners', and people are probably still sore from how utterly easy it was for her to kill someone from center-stage with the Dragon head's laser on F-Smash off stage, and just, invalidate many recoveries that way- I can't exactly say I disagree personally, either... Shoutouts to Byleth for being "another Fire Emblem character", and the last character in a Fighter's Pass otherwise full of way out-there third party guest characters, including Terry and his 50 Tracks of KoF music he brought with (though fortunately that seems to have died down considerably.)

[@venusstar2963]

She's honestly not that bad. Sure she is very annoying to fight, but for one thing I rarely ever see anyone actually using her and whenever someone does I can legit bully them with Ganondorf... that should say enough

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I think Steve will get more hate.

[@danielmartins9901]

12:46, Lol, I get the reference to the beginning of her game whispering her name😅

[@danielgrezda3339]

1:53 Kazuja: Hello there.

[@StarstrickenBarrel]

I just found your channel recently and I want to say you’ve earned a new subscriber I love your content so far and I can’t wait to see more especially of the spiked series

[@skunkooo]

there's really just so much more to life than hating characters in fighting games, man

[@ET-oq1vj]

i’ve never seen an ult player NOT go “uuuugh I have to play against THIS character?”

[@riqua27]

This video need to get updated with Steve and Kazuya.

[@kreatona4219]

Damn, I wish more people played jigglypuff so that Leffen leaves melee

[@10Bendog]

Thank god I didn't start playing competitive until Ultimate and started maining Bayonetta because I liked her look and sassy attitude. Can't imagine how I'd handle being bullied for the character I hate. Like, imagine grown-ass adults bullying minors for the video game character they play. P.S. Sm4sh's biggest problem was not Bayonetta, but it was the utterly ridiculous over-tuned rage mechanic. Don't @ me!

[@akio0191]

@'ing you. Rage was stupid but it was a universal mechanic that everyone had, and it was there for the games whole lifespan. I think by far the worst thing that came out of rage were ladder combos and single hit kills. Mario and ZSS had ladder combos that killed really leniently with rage in Sm4sh, and they were META because of it. The single hit kills, like with Peach and Samus Up-B, were just jank. Also Lucario Aura + Rage was OD but he wasn't popular at all so. Aside from that, I don't understand the hate behind rage. In matter of fact, I think it was good in terms of balance because it buffed heavies. I don't think it was the worst mechanic, but I don't think it was as bad as Bayo. Sm4sh wasn't like Ultimate where there was a pretty even spread of characters. The 10~ characters that were top tier generally dominated top 8's. Similar to what this mentioned about Brawl Meta Knight, tournament players knew most of the top tier match-ups, then Bayo releases. Bayo was top tier at every level of play, people called her the "noob-stomper," except she stomped everyone. At low level play she was a knowledge check. If you don't know the DI, you get combo'd extremely hard. At higher levels, you know how to DI, but you still have to guess. While some other characters have kill confirms that make you guess, like the hoo-hah, you could be guessing as early as 20%. Rage was a mechanic that everyone had, that could be jank and be utilized better by some characters, while Bayo was by far the best character in the game that forced players to learn her extremely unconventional matchup or lose, and either way you still have to guess.

[@luigilp1508]

I'm a Pyra and Mythra Main and they're top tier (As far as I know), however, I play them because they're fun to play for me, they're strategic (fast and with combos or slow but hard) and Anime and I love it And at the same time, my secondary is Little Mac, I know his recovery is extremely bad and because of that he's in every tier list always E or even F, but he can be extremely dangerous if you aren't careful Play the characters you like or you have fun to play with, don't care what other people think about it, if they say "But this character is overpowered, what a noob" or "Wow, you're playing an F-Tier? Lol", ignore those, if they're your friends, they don't need to accept your character, but they need to respect your decision of liking or playing that character

[@santiagoherrera1853]

I agree, I like every character ultimate has to offer and I don't let anyone try to ruin my fun regardless if I play a top tier like Pyra or a bottom tier like Ganon

[@anastasiacook5768]

Straight facts

[@andysauro1500]

2:50 Ok but this ignores the fact that all Sonic players smell funny

[@ocmillion3667]

As a sonic player I can confirm

[@Lordecai]

This video essay was amazing!!!!! I’m proud of you!!!

[@JUMPYCOOL]

2:06 Well I now know that my Main (Steve) is Top Tier!

[@wienerdawg5832]

He always was. Most DlC are major top tiers

[@derek4kgaming756]

8:07 just remember, if meta knight don't wanna fight, he doesn't have to, and so, he doesn't. Thus him staying invisible the whole match after getting one hit

[@OrbitalFrog_]

12:46 couldn’t stop laughing!

[@mtvgamer2479]

This isn’t even a competition, bayo wins.

[@LilyWater84]

Evo 2018 in a nutshell

[@LetterNumber]

I have to assume you weren't around for Brawl Metaknight if you think there's no competition.

[@DunkTasticMan]

@@LetterNumber Brawl meta knight really wasn’t that bad.

[@ColinGLogan]

@@LetterNumber Brawl Meta Knight was overpowered as fuck but didn't get the same hate, probably because he was the most fun character by far too in a game which was so slow and dull for many characters. The problem with brawl wasn't that Meta Knight was too good, but that everyone else wasn't good enough

[@rainbowresorts]

Id probably say melee jigglypuff is the most hated smash character. Remember when hbox almost got assassinated by a crab?

[@AriaHope]

Honestly sometimes I wish Bayonetta was never added into smash 4 in the first place, im not even into smash, im just a fan of the actual Bayonetta series and its tiring looking for Bayo centered content and just seeing never ending rivers of hate for one of my favorite characters, as well as just mountains of really annoying ooc crossover content from people who only know her from smash. Her inclusion into smash did bring more attention to her series but goddamn did it come with a cost.

[@mettatonex7221]

Please never stop using Persona 5 music.

[@TheKorenji]

I didn't realize this was a TCNick video until the outro started, damn.

[@adonniseaston-tolbert608]

This video is beautiful cuz it’s pre Steve for ultimate

[@Minty4141]

"This man monkey flipped once..." No one even going to call him by his name anymore? sheesh.

[@Bylethsummoner3]

I would say even ultimate can get toxic because "Kazuya dominates" heck I have been told I am omega carried because I play Kazuya a lot of people just say I am carried. I dont know what Kazuya did other then be a really hard character. Idk people dislike being out played ig

[@themetagamer7862]

I know Kazuya has some broken abilities, (as a R.O.B. main, I am jealous of his neutral b) but I never found him utterly busted because of how out of place and immobile he feels.

[@premonitiative]

Same with Pyra/Mythra. Literally every single Sparg0 or Cosmos set has comments on how they're using a broken P2W character and how they're carried and don't deserve their spotlights. Every time a Pythra gets KO'd in a 15-second clip on youtube, there's a massive chain of comments circlejerking about how they're a bad inclusion. If anything they're not far from Bayo levels of hate in certain places. They're top tier for sure, and they're honestly not that hard to pick up, but they can still get destroyed by a Little Mac or Ganondorf, which I feel is more of a testament to Ultimate's somewhat impeccable balancing but it's still sad to see.

[@LonelyBanshii00]

@@premonitiative Just Imagine hating a 15 y/o lad.

[@LonelyBanshii00]

@@themetagamer7862 Neither i do, i mean, despite being much Better Ryu, Kazuya has some exploitable weaknesses (just as the rest of the DLCs desíte how broken they can appear). For example, some of his combos can easily be SDI'd, as well he can have a hard time dealing with disjointed characters or zoners.

[@Endershock1678]

@@premonitiative Cosmos, the second best Aegis in the world, got aerial warlock punched. They definitely are not so broken they deserve their hate. Yes, they are broken, but they do have clear flaws and ways to counterplay, tools that are difficult to use, and extremely exploitable weaknesss.

[@Blundabus1337]

7:16 Seeing my boy ganondorf win a set over metaknight is beautiful. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6CTZWiMjdeJj7c

[@Gaudimann]

Thankfully, I never really cared about the metas at that time. I just really started playing thanks to Daisy. xD I wonder how the last DLC of Ultimate will impact the game.

[@bestaround3323]

How much you wanna bet they accidentally drop a meta bomb on the game like with smash 4

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

Thankfully he wasn’t a meta bomb, he was just kinda lame

[@GoodKnightMk]

Nick talking about not being toxic but is he not a little bit himself ??

[@slam6802]

The pros “quitting” because of Puff is honestly so cringe. No one thought the MU was boring or had any problems until HBox started winning. He’s also basically the only Puff that consistently got good results at majors. These people play the exact same matches against Fox/Falco/Marth dozens of times and whine about having to fight a puff 1, 2 max, times a tournament.

[@jajajahdhdhshd9071]

But it's lame

[@slam6802]

@@jajajahdhdhshd9071 oh no a whole 15-20 mins of boredom to get paid to play a video game? Better just quit lmao

[@TDG386]

I... Can't complain much here, if the quitting is sarcastic then i am completly with you on what you are saying, but i would add shiek to the list of characters that their matchups we're played dozens of times