[TF2] Stealth Weapons

[@Davtwan]

Important thing to note about hitboxes: what’s considered the enemy’s “back” is the opposite of their camera view. It is _not_ their literal back no matter how much they pivot it with animations or poses. (I.E. Heavy holding his minigun.)

[@marcellpinter4031]

My hitbox when I look the enemy spy in the eyes.

[@senismarsenis9678]

Oooooooooh... interestingu! :V

[@unserhumanorandom6224]

fun story with the backburner because the primary fire is literally just stock,when i had just started playing and unlocked it,i used it a lot but since i was kinda braindead like most new players,i rarely got use out of it,so i just kinda started using it as if it was stock until one day where i got the crits on an engi runing away from me and got really confused.

[@isenokami7810]

Minus not being aware of the crits, I was much the same. I wasn’t good with airblasts, or more specifically reflects (still not tbh), so I figured I might as well use the Backburner as stock but with free back crits. While I do have some fun panic pushing people away with stock airblast these days, really the biggest reason for the switch was just Jungle Inferno coming around and getting me access to a cheap bottom grade stock skin that I could slap a strange counter on. Well, that, and that first Backburner I got off the market was renamed and redescribed to be super racist and it took me forever to notice. Once I did though, that thing went in the trash faster than you could blink.

[@Ahmm3dSoud]

Yep I used it like stock too

[@carissamace]

In the clip at 1:14 I was the engineer you killed. I remember you dominating me through that game before I killed you back with a crit Gunslinger punch. It's so cool to randomly see myself pop up in a KZbin video like this! And also really weird, I did a doubletake upon seeing my "Ernest Hemingway engie" loadout show up. You have earned yourself a subscriber... by killing me.

[@Chasodey]

Well, I think not to mention that Holiday punch also has finger gun taunt for a fun combo is a wasted opportunity when discussing this pair of mittens

[@cogs_and_gears]

I think it’s intentional that the holiday punch has that taunt and also intentional to use it for a combo

[@just_a_piece_of_junk]

Spy becomes a robot in disguise in this one. Nuff said

[@inductivegrunt94]

The backburner really is more or less stock with worse airblast with crits on back attacks. But no matter how simple it is to explain, it's very fun to flank around the enemy and toast their butts with it.

[@bmac4]

Roasting people is fun but I think using it with a stock mindset is not the best way to optimize it. I think the Backburner is best used for extremely aggressive plays rather than stealth ones, personally. I have stopped so many pushed by thermal thrustering into a crowd, spraying the backburner on their asses, getting 1-2 kills and scattering everyone else, even in death it did its job.

[@redstonewarrior0152]

I like the FSoaS rebalance mod that gave the stock flamethrower knockback on user for the airblast and the backburner was given a slightly stronger self push on the airblast. I want that in the base game.

[@ObsidianKing]

@@redstonewarrior0152 That sounds terrible.

[@Mystic-Midnight]

​@@bmac4 I think the thermal thruster hurts you with the back burner because you announce to the enemy team that you are flanking though. I personally use it alongside the power jack and detonator for movement and just come in from weird flanks. It especially performs well on koth

[@OlaftheGreat]

You have no idea how much the clip at 15:06 makes me smile

[@gretchling5012]

as a holiday punch enjoyer, i do run it the majority on the time, even though i mostly play on uncletopia (where random crits are disabled, of course). while it definitely isn't as effective, i find it to be much more common for medics on defense to run the kritz as a default, and there is something to be said for that if you're willing to coordinate.

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

I remember my first day as a tf2 player. I got the bonk atomic punch and used it on upward. This concludes my memory as a tf2 player on my first day.

[@tappajaav]

@@GunSpyEnthusiast K den.

[@demonickaiju7020]

I remember a few months ago that there was a heavy with the holiday punch that kept on hitting my back when i tried to walk away and got really angry because i did not know why i kept taunting.

[@LokiThePug]

4:37 ragdolls like these just hit different 🤌

[@BoxBeeper]

Thanks for leaving "jorkin' my peanits is playing Dead Estate" in the video clips. Much needed for my attention span.

[@guybrush20X6]

Instresting part about the Backburner is that it didn't have any unlocks that worked with it's unique feature until years in with the Detonator and later the Thermal Thruster giving Pyro increased Flanking oppertunities.

[@Lugiiiii]

12:41 Mr. jorking my peanits videobombing in the corner made me spit out my drink.

[@PS3_orange_box_Enjoyer]

cloak and sapper: allows you to place a sapper while cloaked and doesn’t alert the engineer that the building is being sapped, but takes 3x as long to destroy buildings and can be damaged by any player’s melee

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

If you wait until a push, the ability to disable a sentry and prevent repairs for 2 hits (more if you reapply it) from near safety would easily outperform stock, especially if you use sap and shoot techniques to destroy unattended buildings. No matter how I see it, this is a direct upgrade in most situations, and feels like it wasn't well thought out.

[@redstonewarrior0152]

Give it a "-3000% slower firing" speed and "cloak shimmers on sapper placement" and I will call it balanced.

[@KLIXORthe]

This would be really broken since you can shoot sentries with your revolver for free while sapping. In many situations you'd be able to take out a lone sentry without the engineer knowing

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

@@redstonewarrior0152 I don't think you know this but the sapper doesn't have a firing speed; you can place sappers as fast as you click. did you just think of a random number and call it balanced? The cloak shimmer sounds like a good idea, depending on how long it lasts.

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

@@KLIXORthe i assume that if the sentry takes non sapper damage, the engineer is alerted as normal.

[@yourdemiseishere]

The issue with backscatter is the ability to do the same shit easier with default, it's not that different but what is different only matters at point blank vs 125hp classes that are unaware of you. If it had less falloff on the minicrits, maybe, but eh. Backburner is great if you are good at detonator jumping or very sneaky with the jet. Again though, this seems like pub play relying on idiots being blind more then any battle plan, either the average player got even worse with me not playing or it's my luck on who i run into.

[@EriTheFish]

Honestly I feel like the backburner is just "which flank am I coming from this time?" if used with anything that isn't the jetpack, with Pyro becoming a less glass cannony spy

[@Mystic-Midnight]

​@@EriTheFish Jetpack is so loud that the enemy team doesn't have to be cautious around corners though. You literally announce to the enemy team "I am about to dive in so be sure to shoot me in my jump or just never show your back"

[@EriTheFish]

@@Mystic-Midnight that's why I prefer the detonator, cause the jetpack is basically a dead ringer uncloak but EVEN LOUDER

[@lanceelamparo7593]

16:41 funny family guy pose

[@uningenious]

22:17 Correction. This was a later addition, as a way to fix taunt sliding (when the taunt would still continue, but the player would regain their original controls back if they fell off the platform they were on. As a result, you could have a scout conga while still shooting and moving - pretty funny!)

[@walter1383]

To all my fellow Backburner enjoyers, ya know that random otherwise useless cubby hole on Goldrush last? Across from the final cap where all the stalemates happen. No one remembers it exists, but it's directly behind the cart with a slit to shoot out of, bring a back scratcher to capitalize on the medium health pack inside. You're welcome.

[@MeesterTweester]

21:24 Soviet Block is 1 of my last 2 Heavy achievements, and you just helped that enemy Heavy get it :)

[@nutitoo]

more than a decade of playing and backburner is still my most used flamethrower of them all ;D

[@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87]

I think the worst thing about back burner is that its too similar to stock. Like unless you clearly see the pyro before he attacks you its extremly hard to determine if he is using stock or backburner

[@anaceattorneyfangreatgame9770]

0:53 HEY THAT ENGINEER'S ME!

[@terrat0mere]

Ah, an Ace Attorney fan. Great game.

[@Chaos_Vergil]

I still hate the accuracy debuff cuz it feels like too much. I think it should've been either -10%, no change, or +10%.

[@null_and_void__]

backburner is really good to use against entire teams of enemy players with their backs turned and not paying attention. I've gone on killstreaks where i'd just floor entire enemy teams that were just completely distracted looking in the opposite direction.

[@anaceattorneyfangreatgame9770]

the backscatter's damage penalty makes it so only if you're directly behind someone close enough to kiss them, will you deal... 6 more damage than stock. Along with the fact of wider spread, the minicrits aren't noticeable enough to make it medium range. It has 4 shots. And usually it just deals less than stock even if you are behind an enemy.

[@clobbernut]

18:29 freezeezy peak! nice music choice

[@Tann3rr]

love these thumbnails

[@Sploberrie]

+1

[@Tann3rr]

@@Sploberrie ?

[@Slavtron]

Yeah, black on the mercs looks good

[@Tann3rr]

@@Slavtron I just like the thumbnails in general no matter what color they are (please don’t take this out of context😭)

[@christopherpirir8496]

The Backscatter feels like it's missing something to give more enjoyment/reason to actually use it. Giving it a function like the Eyelander or Bazaar Bargain that give you a added bonus the more eliminations you get from it, except you only get those bonuses from behind to give more incentive for flanking. A goofier option is giving it a right click that fires your whole clip at once or in a rapid fire so that even if the enemy team spots you it at least gives you a chance to take someone down with you.

[@tairiiwilliams]

I thought about it having a rising accuracy increase for every shell missing from its clip, but I'm not sure if that'd be balanced.

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

i thought about just letting it reload its clip on minicrit kill. seems like a balanced buff and less boring than current version

[@redstonewarrior0152]

FishStickOnAStick made a rebalance mod. His change for the Back Scatter was adding a stat that reloads 2 shells upon scoring a kill. You could also "overload" the Back Scatter with an extra 4 shells if you managed to get 4 kills or less kills in 4 or less shots.

[@MatLPlaysVoDs]

call it boring but I feel a good way to balance without a total rework is to just straight up make it a damage bonus if the shot hits the back instead of applying mini-crits. That way, it can't be invalidated by crit-a-cola (and could acually pair well with it) or crit immunity from BB Soldier or Vacc medics.

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

@@redstonewarrior0152 thats awsome! maybe i should check out his servers sometime

[@FloorScientist]

7:58 nice achievement broski

[@Archimides]

I really thought when i got backburner i thought it was just a reskin of flamethrower 😭😭💀

[@OverlordMalarkey]

14:30 SerpentCloud is playing Baldurs Gate 3 yeeeeeeees!

[@SSBBPOKEFAN]

One extra thing about the Backburner on its initial release; it also gave +50 max health upon equipping.

[@cesarmillan5657]

There’s something so cool about seeing the mercs decked out in black like they’re going dark

[@joeyghostx]

A backburner homewrecker teaming up with a shortcircuit turtle engie would sound devastating.

[@CounterfeitDuck]

22:05 this is why Holiday punch (and probably other weapons, that require taunt to function) should be able to inflict an airborne taunt (like taunt kill stun). Also Holiday punch can't make a disguised spy laugh also.

[@mega-swampy1311]

Another way of using holiday punch is for some taunt kills such as the Pootis Pow since Holiday Punch’s taunt is Pootis Pow

[@ethanhayes7038]

Nothing on using the Holiday Punch as a setup for a Pootis Pow? That's like half the reason to use it.

[@OrangeHarrisonRB3]

The Backburner's reputation as the braindead Pyro primary before the Phlog may seem silly today, but it was well-earned. The old Backburner gave you 225 health and later did 20% bonus damage.

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

Pyro is like the popcorn you made that one time before watching some of season 9 of friends you recorded, wishing you could find season 1 first, and thinking the popcorn box said ' stop the microwave when popping stopped for 10 seconds " when it said only for 1 second. I did not like that popcorn due to my own faults.

[@notenoughmemes1847]

the realest tealest opal

[@jhunt7235]

I have not heard that song at 9:16 in forever mate. What a good memory.

[@ampstamp]

A weird trend I've noticed with scouts weapons is that despite being nerfed into the target toy isle, they all still function well. Not enough to be meta defining ofc, but they're all still surprisingly solid alternatives.

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

that's because, in the end, they're all still shotguns. if you shoot someone with one, they're probably gonna be hurt

[@LieseFury]

i think the backburner is the only one that really works. all weapons in every FPS work better when the enemy isn't looking at you, and the backburner is the only one that deals crits. the back scatter's mini crits barely make up for its damage penalty, and the holiday punch is just a very fun gimmick.

[@X-SPONGED]

"The Actor's Handbook" Level 1 Disguise Kit [+] Allows players to false action disguised primaries, secondaries, and melees (reloading, shooting, scoping, etc) [-] +10% disguise time (longer lingering duration for disguise fog) [-] No random critical hits "The Shrouded Sapper" Level 1 Sapper [+] Cloak regeneration rate multiplied by each enemy building sapped [+] Engineers don't get alerts for the sapped buildings [-] Sapper deals no damage to buildings [-] Can be removed by Engineer's firearms (including Rescue Ranger bolts)

[@brawlstar1748]

16:32 Similar to when using the Phlog, the Manmelter can be useful with the backburner as your primary Teammate Extinguisher, saving your ammo for crucial airblasts or more fire.

[@Caseyscreations1]

Ah, the backburner, my beloved

[@dannetrix]

"as early as 2007" it was not a novel concept at this point to have a character that can stealthily instakill enemies. there were already entire franchises around it. also the spy wasnt created for tf2

[@D-N-0]

i just understand how droundedly some players play scout. like, YOU HAVE A DOUBLEJUMP. USE IT. FLY OVER ENEMY HEADS OR GET ON COVER YOU BOTH HOVER AROUND.

[@abdel-azizs5720]

Alright black clothes goes hard

[@Mud-Brain]

backburner bestburner

[@jhunt7235]

I feel like a good additional upside for the Backburner would be for it to make all your weapons silent (or quieter), which would give it some much needed gusto for being interesting. It's synergy with the detonator and Thermal Thruster would be even greater. As for melees? Eh.

[@melohavoc]

I love the back scatter. I love the back scatter. I love the back scatter. I love the back scatter. I love the back scatter.

[@fireflywhy3809]

Back burner and Detonator is such a good combo

[@rockowlgamer631]

Zesty doesn't like the fact that the Holiday Punch can stuff ubers, most people argue that if you allow the slowest class in the game to get you with that back punch then you deserve it.......though I'd be reminiscent about it getting random crits. So much for the skill if it can random crit.

[@ethanhayes7038]

Well Zesty hates fun so his opinion doesn't matter.

[@AlexDeegan-y2x]

In my opinion,the original Backburner was stronger then the Phlog because it used to give an extra 50 hp.That meant pyros couldve had 345 hp with overheal

[@wtzhang586]

Except neither of them is strong as airblasting is pyros most important tool

[@dicyanoacetylene6220]

I have a fun memory with the Backburner. KotH_Nucleus, start of round. I immediately pull out the Powerjack and run out of Red spawn and run up the stairs to building A. I made it to the room at the top of the stairs on Blu side when I ran into the enemy. Three phlog pyros. I pulled out my Backburner and started side stepping, and I swear it was like a scripted fight scene because even though they all came up the stairs at the same time, they each decided to take me on one on one. By the end, they were dead, and I was barely in the red. I ran for the health kit and either died to a soldier in the room at the top of Red stairs on the way back to spawn, or when I was making my way back through A. This was a while back, post Love and War, pre Gun Metal if I remember right. Funny thing that happened later, I renamed my Backburner to Gasburner, with the description "not my fault you had that bean burrito". This was a little after the Tough Break update, so the Gass Passer was not an influence.

[@thomased22legoyodagaming]

"Plain unflavored rice" This is kind of an oxymoron because 70% of the time give or take you're not flavoring the rice with anything special you're pairing it with other, more interestingly flavored things that it synergizes with.

[@TealOpal]

Yeah I mainly only said rice so I could use the Home Movies Clip lol

[@caoistico669]

0:39 wtf they doing?

[@Dubious_guy]

One Pieceified

[@caoistico669]

@@Dubious_guy omg

[@wyattcitizenzap4539]

i remember when TF2 came out. I HAD IT ON MY XBOX 360 and PC! it was a dead game at birth. and the fact its come as far as it has is amazing. around 2015 it had gained alot of players and it was lit and it still is lit.

[@mikethegoo]

Lmao, the backscatter and backburner are my main weapons for their respective classes (while I am still a support pyro who tries to adapt to the situation on what's needed)

[@BoyOHBoy123]

2:32 BONZA!!!!!!!!!!!

[@lightknightgames]

Big disagree on the backscatter. Think of it this way New Spy primary: Lose your knife, invis, disguise, backstab and accuracy But your pistol can do extra damage and you gain movement speed and double jump. It's horriffic. I can't see a situation where you can detail the maths and come out positive with the backscatter compared to the stock shotgun. If they combined it with the babyface's blaster, I think it could be a sidegrade, but it's a downgrade as is.

[@dillonodaniel9753]

AYO WE HITTIN IT FROM THE BACK

[@hackerboytv3379]

Title: Stealth Weapons. Me: Oh we're talking about spy today?

[@saxeladude]

3:43 do you mean position or percision cause position would include buildings and mobility weapons, vs percision would be headshots, the direct hit, and backstabs

[@Idiotplayingclarinet]

I thought this video was about weapons like the bfb and gloves of running ergently. Mostly thought that because scout and heavy are in the thumbnail

[@spiralgodking9877]

The Backscatter should just straight up give critical damage from all back attacks instead of just mini-crits.

[@danielszilagyi9112]

I use the pistol, or the sand man-wrap assasin to midigate the back scatter's small shell capacity. Using throwables with this is just stupid, knowing what downsudes it has and how easy it is to miss. Try it.

[@Apple-vk3fi]

I knew that was a Robot Santa quote!

[@charbelfrem]

2:58 *f u n n y r a g do l l*

[@Robotic-toxic]

I should be learning to draw a unit circle but nope watching this instead

[@tizianolocarno111]

the legendary Speavy

[@lugismansion2400]

i find the argument that only Pyro is annoying when he W+M1 is forgetting that MOST classes can do the job way better than him, although i consider Heavy to be the worst class in the game, he arguably does Pyro's job a whole lot better

[@Dramilos]

What the fuck does "bobs burguers of scouts primaries" mean

[@TheJoeWhoSoldTheWorld]

one thing i dont get about the back scatter is _why mini-crits?_ if the back burner is allowed to do full crits and all the pyro has to do is get behind the enemy or hope they panic and turn around then why does the one that inarguably takes more skill have less reward, imo if anything the back scatter should deal full crits and the back burner should do mini crits

[@richardlionerheart1945]

Because the scout is a stick figure with a shotgun he's fast and has a double jump while all pyro has for mobility is flare jumping

[@shashigoodyiue]

Help the clip at 5:50 is so funny😭

[@feedtheorist9944]

they/them pyro is my new headcanon actually

[@Ahmm3dSoud]

Note : backburner and the thermal thruster can destroy a TEAM

[@John-merman]

not unless a sniper sees him and does a jimmy neutron brain blast joke

[@jackingwads7513]

Here's a fun tip the knock back from the thermal thruster stacks with airblast if you time it right you can launch people off cliffs or into environmental hazards from far away Try airblasting just after you land next to a player and watch them fly away at super sonic speed

[@jackingwads7513]

The knockback from thermal thruster can stack with airblast Try using airblast just after you land next to a player and they will get flung very far away

[@BulletNinja2.0]

When I get air blasted when I'm playing demoknight I'll just run

[@witherslayer8673]

back scatter could give a 10% speed boost...

[@oofoofoof-yz8xt]

Im not gonna lie not mny people actually know the holiday punch is garuntee stun when hitting the back of your enemies

[@Daniel-ms9xe]

We got the backshot before gta6

[@wtzhang586]

First off, welcome back and great video!! It's nice seeing the weapons subcategory vids coming back. However, I would like to comment that non-spy weapons that are entirely built around flanking/surprise are never going to be the meta pick for the class since you really cannot control if the other team is clueless enough to offer you those flanks. In fact those weapons can become borderline useless if the other team is very aware. Spy is the weakest class in the game for this reason alone since he's entirely dependent on the other team messing up/being clueless. They can be fun to use from time to time but I will never recommend using them full time as they're just too inconsistent. Secondly, I'm not criticizing/bashing you by any means, but your take on pyro's role is very very inconsistent. I remember you mentioned in your meter building weapons vid that WM1ing is incredibly easy to counter, which i agree. But in your discussion on the degreaser in the utility primary vid, you also said pyro is a close range damage dealer meant to put out damage with his flamethrower. So idk what your true take on his role should be? As a pyro main myself who have a few highlander matches, I would say pyro is 75% support and 25% combat and when in those combat situations, comboing is the way to go, not WM1ing, since comboing offers you significantly higher burst damage, which increases your 1v1 ability by a big margin and it allows you to end the fight much faster. Because of this, the stock flamethrower and the degreaser are the only generally viable options in serious plays. In fact I only go for flamethrower kills in 2 situations: 1. I caught a clueless light class (spy mostly) by complete surprise. 2. I'm being ubered. Flames suck at higher levels since pyro has very glaring weaknesses in the form of a below-average mobility, terrible range and subpar DPS and good players absolutely know how to exploit those weaknesses if all you do is walking at them. Regarding the backburner, I would definitely say it's one of the worst flamethrowers, only above the phlog. The main reason is that you heavily compromise your most important tool for a gimmicky and wildly inconsistent upside. Pyro is really not a great flanker at all. He's not bad either but classes like scout, soldier, demo and spy can do the job much better due to their superior mobility or stealth.

[@j2daakob]

I disagree with your opinion on the back burner, I play the backline of the enemy with it very often and play dive pyro with the thermal thruster/detonator. Its main utility is killing alone enemies while the main enemy force is distracted, and forcing out uber/denying it entirely, it can alsi be used to force your enemies to turn around while your team pushes

[@Mystic-Midnight]

That just sounds like a flame retardant spy though

[@Todesquote16]

Literally Backshots

[@BanermanArthropide]

Wtf is going on with the heavy at 5:17

[@Londyn-m3t]

Stealthy weapons guy

[@pringless9982]

9:18 whats the music????

[@VolitaryEU]

Your thumbnails are very cool

[@keshakuznetsov7881]

25 min yapping session🤝

[@KrzysGold]

did the demo try to high five or laugh? 9:36

[@anoukackerdesfilmsdesrenco7862]

ppl who say bread flavored never tasted a REAL baguette (I'm French and I can tell you a REAL baguette is very good)

[@richardlionerheart1945]

You can't tell me a real baguette is very good

[@Shadowthegasmask]

Because of you scouts are using the backscatter more XD

[@nicktodorov669]

if red spy was blue scout in meet the spy, WHOS mother was he sleeping with? wouldnt that mean he slept with his own mother

[@Kossumies6]

disguised* as

[@nicktodorov669]

@@Kossumies6 sure yea but whos mother

[@Kossumies6]

@@nicktodorov669 he was banging blue scout's mother in the meet-the trailer (in the comics it's implied there's only one scout and only one scout's mother). The spy isn't the real blue scout, nor was he disguised as him during their coitus in the secret photographs. In the trailer red spy is disguised as the blue scout in order to fool his teammates and the whereabouts of the actual blue scout in the meet-the trailer are unknown.

[@dagoth-ursbeekeeper9119]

What is it with heavy mains and being KZbinrs? Is maining heavy the secret to success?

[@МаксимГригорьев-ъ7ф]

What's the song on 21:50?

[@TealOpal]

"Dead to the World" by Nightwish

[@МаксимГригорьев-ъ7ф]

@@TealOpal Thanks a lot!

[@silverkuroma]

i feel like FSOAS explained it a bit better on his video about the backscatter, but the result is overall the same, its just boring

[@C.A._Old]

*thats why modern era is sucks of hell hole. i wish try to found time machine go back 2006-2007.*

[@IvaHaze]

Nice TF2 topic.

[@sabschatz]

wait heavy mains exist?