[TF2] Knockback Weapons

[@TealOpal]

Support me! 📲 Install Raid for Free Mobile and PC: pl.go-ga.me/d1qcjo2e and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion Juliana 🔥

[@Laziest_log]

you don’t care abt it like the rest just for the money so idc

[@alaeriia01]

Enjoy the payday. For the rest of us, 2:11 skips the ad

[@Laziest_log]

@@alaeriia01 yea

[@dracobellator1164]

I don't want that Chinese Spyware Cringe. *skips ad segment.*

[@Draslyn]

Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt for Force of nature, Elphelts tgeme from guikty gear strive during the loose cannon section. Am I correct or mistaken?

[@adambruh2521]

man didnt even have it in him to clown the shortstop shove

[@DangStank]

And that weapon technically has 2 knock back mechanics doesn’t it? The self knock back increase as well as the shove

[@adi_baa]

every time you jump using the FaN as your third jump and not combo-ing first jump into FaN for massive height it physically hurts me

[@TealOpal]

I honestly didn't know about the more intricate FaN jumps, but that kinda just speaks even more to my point about the weapon being layered and rewarding experimentation. The fact that I made this video without realizing it had even more tech is honestly a point in the weapon's favor.

[@delfinodolphinsquad910]

Dude, there's no 1 right way to FaN jumping, both have their equally viable use cases and situations. Plus not everyone is gonna know about that tech with the FaN in the first place. As stated by Teal, it just goes to show how intricate and layered some weapons are, and ya shouldn't get butthurt about how someone else is using a weapon or item

[@ethandavis7310]

The height you can get with a perfect fan jump is criminal

[@Minister_for_Grass]

When people say “FaN” I just think of the Fan’o’War

[@pinkius]

​@@Minister_for_Grassyeah, I was confused too. Shouldn't it be FoN?

[@icetide9411]

Niche references only you can understand? How dare you assume i haven't listened to the entire GG song lost on repeat

[@jaredhebert942]

2:12 Fly Away from Raid Shadow Legends

[@Draslyn]

Its from panty and stocking with garter belt, an adult anime by studio trigger(?), the people who made kill la kill

[@Capt_Ramlethal]

Red shadow maggots

[@danielsurvivor1372]

​@@Draslyn Panty and Stockings wasn't originally made by Studio Trigger, but apperently they plan to make new season for it

[@Draslyn]

@danielsurvivor1372 ah, thank you. I had a feeling I wasnt entirely correct

[@Mikescool444]

He really just Cunningham’s law’d it

[@nitefurie.]

FaN and loose cannon: fun but impractical Scorch shot: oh yeah that has knockback

[@vyor8837]

Stun more than knockback really.

[@themilkman6969]

the scorch shot is a great tool for making targeted people like 9000 hour snipers leave the game but past that it is dishonourable

[@rejvaik00]

A scorch shot pyro is spamming an area and setting my team on fire *Me with the man melter* "All that for a drop of blood?" Seriously i cannot tell you enough how much the man melter just shuts down sorch shot spam Its not a direct counter to the sorch shot overall but against spam, that shorch shot pyro will soon become sniper fodder as they wonder why am i not getting kills? And they keep doing that corner peaking while the sniper lines up the shot 😂 Ive humiliated plenty of sorch shot abusing pyros in this way and they never see it coming Because in their mind who tf uses the man melter?

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

@@rejvaik00??? The manmelter is literally a counter to all flame-based damage in the game… So what are you talking about? Did just find out like a week ago? Smh, it like people just discovered an counter that exist for decade at this point because they don’t like the Scorch Shot.🤦‍♂️

[@rejvaik00]

@@TunbosunOyenuga 🎶 _Every party needs a pooper that's why they invited you_ 🎶 🎶 _Party pooper, Party pooper_ 🎶

[@Megalon-qc8pf]

5:22 “Uh, I can explain- BLAH”

[@rheum2]

he is ALWAYS in a discord call

[@Rockman9830]

12:18 Song name is Extras if anyone was wondering.

[@plaidshirtmexicanman5805]

thank you

[@MeOdeCtuff]

2:13 He's using the FAN model that breaks sometimes happens when you double-jump(finally someone noticed)

[@milliondollarmistake]

I came into this expecting to say something about the Loose Cannon (my most used and favourite demo weapon) but I heavily disagree with the Scorch shot Segment. It honestly, genuinely, isn't that good. It's annoying sure, but the Flare Gun and Detonator are both better. Hitting 90+ damage flares with the regular FG is so much better than the measly damage the SS deals and using full afterburn damage as apart of it's damage is almost dishonest. There are soooo many ways to mitigate afterburn that the person you're fighting must either have a broken keyboard or incredibly unlucky. Against Heavies the FG is better in almost every way too since a Medic can't out heal the burst damage (like he almost certainly can with the SS). You also can't understate the Detonator's mobility, it gives Pyro so much more than the dinky little jumps the SS provides while still giving you AoE afterburn on groups. You don't even have to aim with the Det, just right click when the flare is near people. Even the SS needs to hit SOMETHING to explode. For the Loose Cannon I'll say that it's probably the worst demo grenade launcher. Double donks are very fun but they're not a big enough reward for the skill required to hit them. Thanks to how TF2 handles explosives a double donk might not even kill a light class for christ's sake. Hitting a Scout for 122 and dying because of it will make you wonder why you even bothered learning the thing in the first place. It especially sucks against mini sentries often requiring 2 shots to take one out. But it does have onnnne really good use against turtling engis. Since the cannonballs travel through buildings you can double donk an engi while he hides behind his stuff.

[@sedij2358]

I like your detailed descriptions of everything. It makes it really easy and enjoyable to listen to these videos while I’m working. Keep it up!

[@RyanORourke18]

Thanks Opal, now I want to buy a Strange Mannana Peeled Loose Cannon and name it "NEW FUNKY MODE"

[@SproingBoing]

I've got a Bamboo Brushed Cannon that I've reserved my next name tag for to call it the "Coconut Cannon"

[@TheJoeWhoSoldTheWorld]

did not mention loose cannon jumping, hybrid knight with the loose cannon and the tide turner is so much fun

[@luj6455]

Did not expect that elphelt theme loose canon clip, was kinda dozing off and it woke me up so fast

[@Crash6351]

i'm not gonna argue about whether or not the scorch shot is annoying to fight against, but i do genuinely think you're overhyping the weapon to be more than it actually is. you say very hyperbolic things about it being the best flare gun/"best of every world for pyro," having the strengths of every other flare gun, that it does "literally everything you could reasonably ask it to" but none of this is actually true. you refer to it as the 'jack of all trades' flare gun but the ending to that phrase is "master of none." it may technically be the "easiest to use" but the damage is ultimately not as good as the stock flare gun or even the mannmelter, which can deal full crits (the former against burning players no matter what). its crowd control and especially added mobility really isn't as good as the detonator, which can also be used to remove sticky bombs. sure, the scorch shot is the easiest flare gun to spam, but there are so many options for spamming in this game that it feels very silly to single out this weapon. you say you keep using it and that you 'kind of have to' but i suggest you play around with the other flare guns some more, especially the detonator, which the scorch shot is almost entirely outclassed by. it has added knockback compared to it, but literally everything else about it is worse than the detonator. i feel like if that were used as often as the scorch shot (and paired with the phlog as often) then that would be the scapegoat flare gun everyone talks about.

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

It kinda was a one time due to the Critswitch bug the Detonator used to have on it. But in general complaints come from poor information, lack of usage (of all flares imo), phlog pairing, and probably the time complaints of Pyro and afterburn.

[@sedij2358]

Personally my biggest issue with it is that it inflicts full afterburn even if you only get hit by the splash. If they made the afterburn time based upon how close to the point of impact the flare was to you then I would have next to no issues with it.

[@ColdBomba]

​@@sedij2358what people hate about scorch shot is afterburn, because to put out the fire, you need resource like med kit, medic, dispenser, mad milk and jarate. For example you run at checkpoint as scout and got hit by scorch shot and toss mad milk then go in again and then you got hit again and then pick med kit, then got hit again but this time no med kit and mad milk because you already use it and then die because afterburn

[@screamingcactus1753]

I like how Scout actually uses the release lever on the Force-a-Nature. So many video games just have you grab the barrel and yank it like you're actually breaking the gun in half

[@RJsPsycho]

You forgot the shove

[@thedecentgamer7818]

21:35 doesn't the detonator also have that trait though? I'm not gonna sit here and claim that the scorch shot is well made or anything, but that's making it out to be even worse than it is by claiming that it has a stat that has no reason to be there, even though it's just staying consistent with the other explosive flare gun

[@TealOpal]

Counterpoint: The Detonator's Sticky Removal requires timing the explosion. You just gotta shoot in the general direction of them with the Scorch Shot.

[@thedecentgamer7818]

@@TealOpal That's true, but it doesn't make my statement invalid. Your quote is that the stat is reserved for hitscan and demo's unlocks, and that the Scorch Shot is an exception to that. Like I said, I'm not defending the Scorch Shot, just pointing out the fact that what you said isn't exactly true

[@tanktopbandit2685]

@@TealOpal That means the Detonator can also destroy stickies that are not visible, like traps above doorways. The Detonator does everything the Scorch Shots does but better, albeit requiring more skill. The Scotch Shot really only has the knockback and easy Phlog farming going for it, definitely not a must pick in every Pyro loadout. It's a shame because the Scorch Shot is a cool weapon in general and has potential to be balanced.

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

@@TealOpal​​⁠ It not really an counterpoint. It really not that hard to time detonation something like sticky traps. They ain’t mobile targets that are moving around on a whim.

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

@@thedecentgamer7818 Frankly, it’s almost standard for any video complaining about the Scorch Shot to leave out that “Detonator can destroy stickies” Look at the comments here. It like some people don’t even this sticky removal has existed on the Detonator since it was put in the game.

[@biggestenjoyerofthebiggest7796]

hot take: the loose cannon is the most annoying weapon in tf2 with a crappy scorchshot pyro you just get set on fire every now and then, with a good scorchshot pyro you get bounced around a bit, with a crappy loose cannon demo you get completely stopped in your tracks and movementlocked for seconds per ball with 4 balls at a time, with a good cannon demo you just die or get sent back to your spawn doors because no amount of knockback resistance is gonna work vs a double donk

[@lambsauce5312]

The loose cannon is a primary

[@biggestenjoyerofthebiggest7796]

@@lambsauce5312 and the stickybomb launcher is a secondary what's your point?

[@shagLSSJ]

"some people might wanna watch the world burn but a true maniac likes to watch the fireworks" 🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@delila5034]

I'm the exact opposite, I love the Scorch Shot and never found fighting against it annoying but I got gripes with the knockback on the Force-a-Nature and Loose Cannon, mainly the Force-a-Nature's knockback in game feels really random where I can land a full pellet point blank shot and the enemy will move an inch but if I get grazed by a stray 3 damage shot I get sent to the other side of the map and the Loose Cannon's knockback being too strong, as the amount of times it's just completely nullified my movement is infuriating.

[@thetarr2]

I like how the Scorch Shot falls into the "so little knockback it's just annoying" category of knockback weapons, while the Loose Cannon and Force-A-Nature fall into the "so much knockback its hilarious and stops being annoying" category of knockback weapons

[@EmmEDroid]

i tabbed out for 1 second and got jumpscared by elphelt's theme as i was thinking about it

[@drucy.]

20:13 Actually, if you hit a light class with the flare, the second bounce of it and they let the afterburn rough through, they WILL die in only one flare.

[@The-Antichrist616]

I knew the sponser was Raid from the laugh.

[@mirandaprins8065]

The force-a-nature on hightower:

[@yoshyfoods]

The scorch shot is one I don’t use often, because flare punch funny, but making enemy gamers mad gives me a sadistic pleasure. I still won’t use phlog though. it is, for the most part, flamethrower without the airblast, and I live for the airblast

[@taklampan650]

Killing it with these videos, love this series

[@matheusrios4223]

I like to call the force a nature the "Smart Boy scattergun". Also as a pyro main I must make my point on the scorch shot: despise the well deserved fame of being a no skill weapon, I found a new love in it when I decided to play aggressive with it. There are some really cool combo potential with akin to the force a nature wall locking. If you want to spice up your game with it, I strongly recommend you to try being really aggressive with it.

[@junk28]

Scorch shot is a powerful tool, and while its fun for the person who uses it, its definitely not fun for the person who gets hit by it Pyro and Sniper are the two most unfun classes to fight against, no matter what weapons they use

[@matheusrios4223]

@@junk28 it is really powerful in the right hands, but my point was more on incentivise people that play with it to not be so passive and defensive with it and try going for more aggressive plays, since 90% of scorch shot users restrict themselves to spamming it from a safe distance in a very boring game and build phlog crits. Funny enough, ever since I started going aggressive with it and doing combos, nobody got salty about the scorch shot usage.

[@sampofum97]

8:20 that spy jumpscare when he dies scare the sh*t out of me man💀

[@Shadowthegasmask]

I love the scotch shot, i have a kill streak one to

[@speedypichu6833]

The 3 most fun weapons in the game, the Force-A-Nature with it’s unique mobility and playstyle, the Loose Cannon with very satisfying hits and rewards for getting good with it, and the Scorch Shot, that you shoot from across the map and stun lock some heavy in a corner with while on the other side of the map.

[@stratigangames508]

I named my strange scorch shot "I'm not apologizing".

[@parkersmith8711]

I love the use of the PSG song at the start of the Force of nature segment

[@johnbasketball2012]

you covered the FaN so well i’ve seen other videos talking about it but this one is defo the best i’ve seen

[@johnbasketball2012]

22:39 never touched that filth and i never will. my manmelter is named “fuck the scorch shot” lol

[@trist10]

“Honey it’s time for the totally original ‘Scorch Shot BAAD’ opinion for the 2,456th time!” “Yes dear…”

[@marzipancutter8144]

Shotgun jumps are technically engine jank, in the same way rocket jumps were. They used to be prominent in some early FPS, and became a staple that was intentionally left in. So in a sense it's like a callback to old tech.

[@lu7ky]

The detonator can also clear sticky traps just so you know. (explosion only)

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

You know they don’t know… because they don’t use it but yet they will praise the Detonator.

[@TypicalGiftig]

I was not expecting to hear Elphelts theme in a tf2 video lmao

[@graysongdl]

Scorch shot is really fun in MVM. As much as I love airblast in that mode, a sufficiently upgraded scorch shot can replace it completely.

[@TIB-yl8lz]

The manmelter shines when there is a pyro with the scorch shot in the enemy team

[@undefind3426]

Scorch Shot can indeed one shot light classes, hit them with a direct, they get hit by the bouncing flare thus taking mini crit, wait out the full afterburn and bam. They dead unless they extinguish themselves

[@temkin9298]

And it wastes a whole medpack to heal it. Thanks volvo.

[@dartimes6048]

Valve knew the scorch shot was broken on its release, they had to give sniper a way to survive it with the Danger shield.

[@dogplex]

17:25 as far as im aware, u can't "double-tap" enemies with the detonator, since it explodes on impact

[@robloxfan5458]

Fun fact: as a person that literally mains with the force a nature, i must say that knocking enemies off a cliff is infact awesome

[@thefoxcreation3580]

That fight with the medic when on FaN was so sad with everyone's bad aim

[@d-tergent7899]

I heard "non damaging utility" in the pyro section and briefly thought it was an intentional jab at the gas passer

[@Sevius_V]

In a world where sniper exists i will always love the scorch shot

[@cz_Fenix]

Wasn't expecting the Mega Man X7 Flame Hyenard meme for the Scorch Shot's intro. Fitting, though.

[@titicaca.]

the scorch shot doesnt deal mini crit afterburn. thats false. and the detonator can also destroy stickies

[@yeisonsuarez2692]

A-posed spy jumpscare 8:19 😮

[@Crow_Rising]

I've always felt like a decent rework for the Scorch Shot would be to make it so it doesn't do any damage on its own other than setting whoever it hits (directly) on fire without any explosion for splash damage, but also applies a special debuff that lasts as long as they are on fire that causes them to take mini-crit damage from fire weapons. This way you'd need to actually have good aim with it and it would be a setup weapon for you to get in close with your flamethrower after tapping an opponent with your scorch shot. It could also have really good utility in other ways, such as teaming up with a second pyro to perform a combo, or even lighting an ally Sniper's huntsman so that they can do mini-crit boosted damage with their arrow on body shots.

[@MotorcycleCheetah]

I’ve always thought the “Scorch” Shot should specialize in Pyro’s lesser damage method, Afterburn. What if instead of the explosive stuff and stun lock bs, we keep the knockback, but then amp up the Afterburn to the nth Degree, 10 Damage Per tick, Damages every half second instead of full second, lasts 15 seconds but loses it’s ability to mini crit. And despite firing faster, it reloads slower. Basically, making it a Molotov Cocktail Launcher!

[@malablondi77]

also guys remember to always combo the loose cannon with a shield and a good (fast switch speed) melee like the stock(or the pan) because if you double donk a soldier , a minicrit from the charge will like barely kill him and stickies won't because it's easier to combo dd into charge , or just double double donk that guy

[@mryoyo3318]

Anyone that makes guilty gear reference in tf2 video is peak content

[@thesealgamer5372]

As a demoknight I FUCKING HATE the loose cannon because it just instantly stuns me and stops my charge

[@SophiaLilithUwU]

As a hybrid knight i love the loose cannon because it lets me blast jump while also rocking a shield :)

[@junk28]

Stop charging in a straight line

[@junk28]

​@@SophiaLilithUwUAs a general demo and demoknight main i love loose cannon for the sound

[@MadamApocolips]

ngl i absolutely despise those who are good with the loose cannon soooo much that i would instantly leave a game if i notice one

[@elaina-kippykap]

22:50 to feed my superiority complex!

[@John-merman]

don’t forget that a pyro can double donk themselves if you time it correctly

[@trollshamanpwnage]

I did not expect a ptsd flashback to Megaman x7 from a tf2 video

[@ArbitraryOutcome]

Guilty Gear mentioned

[@superIdiotstudios2.0]

Little do you know, I deleted my Scorch Shot, so I CAN'T sell my soul for damage numbers

[@GothicCrimson]

"Extras" is a pretty good pick! I'm more of "Drift" kind of guy myself, but 3rd season Strive tracks have been pretty solid so far. Can't wait to hear what the next two will be. Friggin' love the FaN though. Definitely not as reliable as stock but the knockback and 2-tap kills are always a fun time.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

Knockback weapons or as I like to call them, The "Wombo Combo" guns.

[@neondead2.0.15]

The my fav weapons.I think knockback on all weapons is what make it so satisfying and impactful to shoot at everything.

[@akumaking1]

There should be a new flamethrower that has increased knockback/airblast and ammo in exchange for a damage and after burn reduction.

[@recurvestickerdragon]

How to fix the scorch shot: Remove "mini-crits burning targets" and "destroys stickies" Give the splash's fire damage falloff with distance from the flare detonating ... Maybe give it bonus damage for how many players were caught in the radius, as a treat

[@parkersmith8711]

I'm a pyro main and I love the scotched shot but I try not to use it to much as it can be a crutch. But the moment one good sniper shows up it's coming out, but never nerf it.

[@voodoodummie]

I feel the scorch shot's AoE size and sticky-desctruction should be given to the detonator and its own reload be slowed.

[@shrimpchris6580]

I actually don't also use the scorch shot almost ever despite pyro being my second most played class because it's genuinely his worse secondary. The detonator obsoletes it in almost every single way, even with the phlog. Detonator is way more consistent for building mmmph and the higher mobility is a necessity

[@bimss7969]

Elphelt mention

[@Graveskull]

Regarding what you said about the minicrit scorch shot afterburn, its actually even worse: hitting someone already burning makes the duration increase to 10 seconds with a flare, so it does 100 damage from minicrit afterburn

[@idavid8391]

22:45 As a Pyro main and a matter of principle, no. I have stopped. We must be better than the evils available to us, no matter how effective they may be.

[@vyor8837]

the scorch shot 1 shots light classes with a combo and full afterburn.

[@WunderWulfe]

scorch shot can kill sniper, engie, and scout with one hit + afterburn if they dont heal

[@sigilabbas8318]

12:26 is guilty gear strive a niche reference??? I am so deep in my fighting game tgirl circle that I don't realize most people don't know the guilty gear soundtrack immediately???

[@SophiaLilithUwU]

Im kinda surpirsed you didnt mention you can also rocket jump with the loose cannon by cooking the cannon ball all the way till it explodes in the chamber, which is pretty useful on hybrid knight

[@justchill4886]

playing loose cannon with shield is really good just donk them to corner and dash into them

[@SpitfiretheCat16]

Reasons I, an aspiring Pyro Main, don't use the Scorch Shot: 1) The Thermal Thruster is way more fun 2) I need to learn how to aim 3) I have a painted and named Panic Attack 4) I don't like putting all my weapon eggs in one damage type basket 5) I respect the enemy team

[@sauleline]

oh god the facestab at around 12:30

[@Reinfuse]

12:25 omg its extras from guilty gear strive!! :D

[@CounterfeitDuck]

All cannon users are secretly Serious Sam fans.

[@feedtheorist9944]

i see loose cannon and just think "why are we blocking?"

[@dernamenlosefan]

When it comes to the scorch shot I will forever stay by the opinion that giving it the equaliser treatment by splitting it in half (one flare gun for bounce and the other for knockback) would probaby be the best approach. I really wish I had a knockback flare gun for combos and stuff without feeling like evil incarnate by holding that monstrosity of a weapon.

[@temkin9298]

Actually it needs to be three. Active flare after hit. Sticky removal. Knockback. Detonator has bounce with its own quirck. Normal flare has combo. So the others needs to be: Afterburn flare(Nerfed Scrothshot) Sticky removal flare(with increased radius) Knockback flare(minimal damage) Otherwise other flares wouldn't be viable.

[@dernamenlosefan]

@@temkin9298 Personally if I want a sticky removal flare I'd go with the Detonator as you can blow up stickies around door frames easier.

[@Slocodqpif]

Great video mate

[@SlaaneshsBestBoy]

Any nockback where you can't surf is the problem (loose cannon and scortch shot)

[@emeraldsands577]

12:27 niche references SMH I would recognize extras: elphelts theme from guilty gear strive ANYWHERE

[@Uwujarvis]

The force-a-nature is a very well designed cool weapon that I wouldn’t change at all… but I hate playing against it. It’s just fucking annoying lul.

[@lautyyamiguis5319]

The scorch shot is a good weapon for me but the other players is want the scorch shot becomes a detonator 2.0 but the question is why? If you think a nerf o rework the scorch shot and remove a simple one of the state of this weapon the result is a another detonator, that include if the remove de bouncing or knockback or the stun mecanic the scorch shot is becomes to detonator 2.0 or flare gun 2.0

[@ChangeOHeart]

Me using the Winger, Atomizer and Force a Nature (fly high little scout)

[@pancake_the_pancake]

I am a pyro main I do not use the scortch shot because i like the skillful nature and higher damage of his other flares

[@hawkticus_history_corner]

As someone who used to use the Scorch Shot quite a bit ( I switched to the Detonator and its just been so much better since then) I have never understood why the SS always knocks the enemy up when you hit them. Like... the other knockback weapons don't do that, so why does the SS? It has knock *back* not knock *up* and I think that's one of the primary reasons its so damn hated, cuz that's where the pseudo stun comes from. Its just very odd.

[@vidiottheowl2825]

wait... why has nobody thought of making the scorch shot projectile slower?

[@TheGuardianOfTheRoad]

loose cannon be like: *dopamine*

[@nonsensical9692]

ELPHELT VALENTINE REFERENCED 12:19

[@lopside2313]

A reference only you get? My friend i am an Elphelt main.

[@IzzytheMelody]

22:44 And I'm sure you do too *chuckles in Flare Gun* Maybe some viewers Not me

[@Mech3001]

Even Fortnite loves the Force of Nature. The Dub (an exotic shotgun in Fortnite) is basically just the FoN in Fortnite

[@waluigi1228]

I prefer the force of nature to the scatter gun

[@taklampan650]

We need Raid videos on the side channel