The Politics of Nostalgia & TOP GUN: MAVERICK | Copaganda 11

[@kindofcl]

It really is ironic how this types of movies insisting that they aren't political is part of what makes their political messages so insidious

[@troubadour723]

It's not surprising, since they're already dealing in myths anyway.

[@katherineberger6329]

It's insidious because insisting that it's not political is part of its political agitation for the status quo.

[@guy-sl3kr]

What does it even mean for something to be "not political"? Makes no sense

[@58209]

@@guy-sl3kr colloquially, when people use "political" as a negative descriptor, what they really mean is "it makes me uncomfortable or challenges my status quo". they want to go back to talking about the topic without having to be reminded that the topic has serious impacts on some people. which, imo, is a really immature mindset. if people are involved in any capacity, it is going to be political. damn near everything is political. the food we eat, the land we live on, the air we breathe, the language we speak is political, because people affect and are affected by it. we can acknowledge that something is political without demanding that it be a heavy conversation, and similarly, we need to stop dismissing major issues as "not political" just because we don't want to dispel the fog of blissful ignorance.

[@Spielername]

It's the same thing with Video Games and this whole "leave politics out of our Video Games!" Crowd. Most Video Games that are criticized because of political messages had political messages in them since the beginning of these series. Those people just don't like that contemporary ideas found a way in their games.

[@easymentality]

I assumed the faceless, nameless "Enemy" was faceless and nameless specifically so that no matter WHO the audience was, no matter where the film was shown, that audience WASN'T the enemy. In a global market, it just makes sense not to outright vilify any potential audience demographic and lose out on their sweet, sweet currency.

[@professeurgideere5856]

tbf, none of those two explanations really excludes the other.

[@troubadour723]

I just assumed it was the US.

[@easymentality]

@@troubadour723 That's reasonable.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

I will say, showing that the enemy has a very snowy pronounced mountain range in their territory does kinda narrow down who it could be

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

@@randomjunkohyeah1 From my perspective it has to 100% be Iran, the inciting incident makes no sense otherwise, Iran is the only boogieman that the US is concerned about enriching uranium and Iran does have dense forests to its north and snowy peaks. Iran only has American F-14s in terms of fighters, but you could easily argue that someone is supplying them.

[@insignificantramblings]

My partner and I (Canadians) have put so much time into joking that the Enemy is Canada that I honestly forgot it wasn't canon

[@coreyparchem3470]

"The Enemy" in Maverick is clearly Luxembourg. They were sick of everyone forgetting they exist.

[@TheDarthbinky]

*Andorra enters the chat*

[@Turbo5150]

its land locked.

[@thvf2381]

"clearly", the only country that still has F14 is iran

[@dontreadmyprofilepic2124]

@@Turbo5150 Luxembourg invaded Belgium before that

[@avillianchillinskrillian]

😂

[@garysturgess6757]

To anyone not from the US, the answer to the question "Is Top Gun Maverick propaganda?" is so obviously 'yes' that the alternative answer of 'no' wouldn't even occur to us. :)

[@guy-sl3kr]

"Propaganda" is one of many words that are for "them", never "us". Because when _we_ do propaganda we invariably refer to it by other names.

[@Spielername]

@@guy-sl3kr it's the same with corruption. If someone else does it it's corruption, if we do it it's Lobbying and totally fine and legal. Or democracy. If we don't like the outcome it's not a democracy for us and sometimes we help our selfes by financing a coup and putting a Dictatorship in place.

[@Spielername]

The US are like a world on the other side of the mirror. Everything is a business, and I mean really everything and Channels like FOX News are downright unthinkable in most of the other western countries. Even their democracy is somehow a joke. I'm not saying that our (I'm from Germany) democracy is so much better and we have/had a pretty neoliberal Government since I can remember but the United States are that times ten plus a lot of pretty crazy stuff I'm happy we've overcome or didn't had it to begin with (and I'm obviously not talking about Nazi Germany or the GDR since that would be a complete different conversation).

[@dickiewongtk]

Of course it is, and it is absolutely fine.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

@@dickiewongtk we can rip it to shreds for what it is and still enjoy it

[@TheDarthbinky]

I served in the Army in the mid-to-late 1990s and the sexual harassments/assault thing was still a big deal. Tailhook was still a lingering thing, and the Sergeant Major of the Army (the highest ranking enlisted soldier, who largely acts as a liaison to Congress) at the time was court martialed for sexual harassment. There were also scandals involving sexual misconduct where drill sergeants were having sex with female soldiers at Aberdeen and Ft. Leonard Wood. When I got to my unit after the initial training, the company First Sergeant had just been demoted and transferred because he had been sleeping with the wives of his subordinates. Tailhook was a huge scandal but there was so much more.

[@morganboutwell8231]

It is still going on today

[@goosewithagibus]

Still a huge thing today

[@epicotakugamer4930]

That sounds so sexy

[@oscarquintana8974]

​@GooseWithAGibus definitely not to that exent😂 name me 3 scandals close to tailhook in the last 5 years.

[@DruCypher]

One of the many reason I discourage as many people as possible from joining the military

[@ihatemegatron216]

Avgeek here. 26:00 the presence of the f-14 is a dead giveaway for who "the enemy" is. F-14s were only ever used by 2 countries. The USA, and Iran.

[@Huntracony]

I know this isn't exactly the most objectional thing Ben Shapiro has ever said, but I always cringe when people use 'red, white, and blue' as a synonym for 'American.' It's literally the most common color combination in national flags, including France, the UK, and most of the Commonwealth. And those colors in that order is literally the Dutch flag. It just oozes US centrism to associate those colors purely with the US and it's a real pet peeve of mine.

[@caffetiel]

I don't think it's unnecessarily US-centric for Americans in America to refer to the American flag by its colors in American media featuring American characters for American audiences. Populationwise, even, we're all of those combined and more, and far more proximate, what with being in the US. We're not obligated to constantly refer to the contextually irrelevant. When context allows other interpretations it's absurd to insist on the US taking precedent, but this is not one of those contexts.

[@Huntracony]

@@caffetiel ​ What you're saying makes sense in a vacuum* and my dislike of it would be excessive if it was just this, but there's tons of little things like this. Things that only Americans do (usually the right) that demonstrate a very low level of awareness of the existence of other countries. The rest of the world doesn't do this, or at least not from what I've seen. Sidenote, I forgot Russia somehow, they're also part of the red white and blue gang. * Except the 'populationwise' sentence, I don't really get what you're trying to say there. Is it that the US has a higher population than the others combined and therefore this association makes sense? Because that would be factually incorrect.

[@ahmadhadi177]

@@Huntracony My country Malaysia has the same colors.And It's pretty racist towards ethnic minorities and being utterly anti-LGBTQ.Malay politics in this country is seriously nationalistic and conservative.I happen to be Malay myself.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

I mean, the US already copied the Dutch declaration of independence and constitution (excluding amendemnts) word for word, co-opting our flag without giving us any credit is the least of our concerns.

[@bigdaddychacha]

I don’t think this is too America-centric; for one, I’m not sure how much other countries, let alone none-English speaking countries, are in the habit of making up pet names for their flags (Americans certainly are: the red, white, and blue, the stars and bars, etc.). If the French did the same with their flag, they could say, “le rouge, le blanc, et le bleu,” and I don’t think anybody would be confused. Also, I live in South Korea and I’ve never known the South Koreans to refer to their flag as anything but “the taegukki” or the South Korean flag. I think you’d actually have to demonstrate that this was leading to genuine confusion somewhere in the world to brand it a problem.

[@hi0sandiego]

I am pretty sure "The Enemy" is Iran in this case, although it is never mentioned in this movie. It would have to be a country that doesn't have nuclear weapons, but is seeking nuclear weapons. The country would also have to have snow capped mountainous regions which Iran has a lot of. Finally, it would be a country which has 5th generation fighters which Iran could easily buy from the Russians. In this case, it looks like the enemy fighters are Su-57s made by Russian aircraft manufacturer Sukoi. It is common for enemies of the United States to typically purchase Russian equipment for their military.

[@Noone-br3vl]

Yes, also, Iran used to fly F-14s.

[@nnotcircuit010]

I thought it was suposed to be the Netherlands

[@DrZaius3141]

@@nnotcircuit010 Luxembourg, actually.

[@nnotcircuit010]

@@DrZaius3141 That makes more sense

[@Noms_Chompsky]

Thank goodness, I was afraid they were going to war on the christmas again

[@TacticalBodywash]

the first movie rehabilitated the u.s. military’s image after vietnam, and the purpose of this one was to do the same after the iraq war.

[@FireTrainer92]

Didn't do a good job because Iraq and Afghanistan is constantly in the public conscience

[@yondie491]

@@FireTrainer92 Doesn't happen overnight dude.

[@robsylian]

I think the objective of the movie was to tell a story. Just ask the filmmakers.

[@florascent9ts]

@@FireTrainer92 only to us online people, the average American thinks we're doing great things in the "underdeveloped" (purposefully de-civilized) world.

[@58209]

@@FireTrainer92 you are being overly charitable with how much the general american public cares about anyone outside their borders.

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

It’s definitely Iran. Like easily. Iran has snowy highlands and mountains and also has heavily forested regions along the caspian sea. Enriching uranium being an issue doesn’t even make any sense for any other of the US’s boogiemen. Iran uses American F-14s but there is no reason they couldn’t be supplied by someone else in the narrative.

[@Udontkno7]

i think it could be a combination of multiple threats honestly. Russians, Iranians, the North Koreans, etc

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

​@@Udontkno7 yeah but Russia and North Korea already have nuclear capabilities so they wouldn't need to be secretly enriching it

[@FirestormMk3]

I remember while I was watching it and they were doing the mission briefing going, "Oh, so they're attacking Not Iran(TM)" and I honestly can't see how that isn't indisputable once they had Maverick escape in an F-14. I actually thought that was one of the reasons they chose Iran as the boogeyman this time, since we had to go to great taxpayer expense to shred every component down to the landing gear of old F-14s, even further gutting already disarmed museum pieces, because Congress wanted to send a message since they were one of the last nations still using them (and because there's always infinite money for defense contractors, but they always plead poverty when it comes to medical treatment for even veterans let alone everyone else.).

[@sward13x]

100%. Iran is the only country to ever operate the F-14 besides the US, and the only one still operating them today, period. As mentioned above, stopping a country from enriching uranium is something you really want to do before they have working nukes.

[@ThePotatoMan04]

Really the only thing that says it isnt Iran is the SU-57s.

[@fish_birb]

I'm an aviation enthusiast. I enjoyed the living hell of Top Gun: Maverick when I saw it in an IMAX theater. It made me go back to DCS (Digital Combat Simulator, that realistic combat flight simulator) for a bit to learn some of the fighters featured in the film. Yet I do recognize it is, in the end, a blatant US pro-military imperialist propaganda. Heck even Lockheed Martin is an official partner of the movie especially given they designed the Mach 10-breaking Darkstar.

[@Warszawski_Modernizm]

Their logo is even on the nose of Darkstar in the movie xD

[@pogo1140]

@@Warszawski_Modernizm Well, who else would design a son of SR-71 but the company that designed the SR-71.

[@MikoyanGurevichMiG21]

And all that for a small cameo of the F-35 in the opening montage

[@gymcelsocialism]

Ace Combat fans watched Top Gun Maverick with a hard on tbqh

[@rsr789]

Good thing the real Lockheed Martin isn't stupid enough to try to make a plane that tries to carry a pilot to Mach 10 (and includes an ejector seat 🤦‍♂)...! Cuz you know: PHYSCIAL REALITY.

[@JessieGender1]

Me halfway through this video: “ohhh someone read Ur-Fascism for this video” Edit: Me at the end of the video: “Ha, called it”

[@SeenNothinYet]

The American military thing is wild to, even on the terms it, it's elk & representatives intend or even wish to convey. I mean from the periphery dutifully consuming what's meant for me, I still find weird that your jets fly over games & you sing your anthem when vs domestic teams in domestic games. And the "God bless..America/USA" at random times with way too many flags + their pledged to, during non-State occasions.

[@khazermashkes2316]

Same!

[@yondie491]

I didn't make it past the 15 minute mark, not remotely surprised by this tho.

[@galactic85]

Same here!

[@gorimbaud]

As soon as he said "The enemy is simultaneously strong and weak."

[@SpecificMiscellaneous]

I'm a pilot, I love everything about flying. The US military has the finest aircraft ever created. I had my chance to go into the Air Force. I couldn't do it. I didn't want to be a part of killing poor people to make some rich people richer. My Father was a mechanical engineer, he was offered a job with McDonald Douglas before he graduated college. He turned them down because he didn't want to build things that hurt people. I'm glad to be a little bit like my Dad. The Military Industrial Complex is a real thing. The US spends more on the military than the next 16 countries COMBINED. Think of all those resources could do other than killing.

[@dfmrcv862]

No one forced you to sign up and you don't have to... Because others are doing it for you. Yeah, we spend a lot more on killing machines than everyone else because the second we stop, you know what happens? Ukraine. The sad reality of the world is that peace can only be achieved if you are ready for war.

[@Nuke-China]

The US also almost entirely funds NATO by itself. Europe isn't going to do shit against Russia or China -- they rely on the US for military aid.

[@normalizedinsanity4873]

It is insanity, the enormous amount of resources wasted on the military building ever more efficient weapons of mass murder to gain control of the world's resources!! The gun debate is the same. Its not about the right to own weapons or not, it's about why do we make the flucking things in the first place?

[@dfmrcv862]

@@normalizedinsanity4873 If you want peace you gotta be ready for war. That simple. Don't have to like it. But opposing it only puts you on the wrong side of history.

[@juniorjames7076]

My cousin dropped out of Officer Candidate School (Pensacola, Fl.) for all the reasons you listed. He caught hell from all his family and me (I was young) because at the time we didn't understand. This was back in the '90s, but to this day I commend him for following his moral principals and setting an example for me as well.

[@ravenrose5712]

Based on the anti-intellectualism thing, remember that the love interest went from an astrophysicist to a bartender.

[@chuckbuck5002]

I was completely confused who this character was until my dad mentioned the whole thing about how Maverick had been going out with some Admirals daughter in the first movie.

[@pendejo6466]

Business owner/entrepreneur.

[@youknowwhoyouare2269]

Never saw either- but always assumed Val kilmer was the love interest, and miles teller filled that hole- I mean role for the sequel

[@bowencreer3922]

A business owner with her own boat she sails herself and has a classic car. What are you doing?

[@enysuntra1347]

@@bowencreer3922 Sounds like classicism and misogyny to me, pretending a character without a university degree was worth less than a graduate, and looking right through the strong female lead because of her gender. :-(

[@JurassicLion2049]

This is why I dont go for over patriotic / war movies as much. Im Mexican American and was a kid during the Busch years. I have nostalgia for shows & cartoons of the era. But I distinctly remember the racism, xenophobia, & homophobia of the time. It was messed up & ignorance dominated popular thought. So when people idolize the past as something perfect or an ideal to return to, usually Im the first to balk at that. And thats why for all the memes, all the rave reviews by critics, I just cant get behind Top Gun nor will I ever watch Maverick. Its copaganda that’ll fuell the imagination of more idiots that make the world a worse place to live in.

[@troubadour723]

These movies trade on myths, which is what the Reagan/Bush era was all about.

[@daltonbedore8396]

LMAO "Busch years"

[@kristinab1078]

Interesting. As someone who watched the first Top Gun when it came out, I thoroughly enjoyed the most recent one. The movie never showed the enemy. As an audience, we never know who it is supposed to be. Without identifying the enemy, the central story was able to focus more clearly on the themes of loss, friendship, teamwork, forgiveness, and dealing with the realities and challenges of growing older. I found the last point particularly poignant. I also understand why the elderly man next to me shed a tear. I recommend watching it for these points as well as for the visual impact.

[@Jarod-vg9wq]

I understand and respect your statement. Nostalgia is dangerous if we are not careful.

[@youknowwhoyouare2269]

The myth began before formal inception of america in 1776 with genocide of indigenous & enslavement of stolen Africans @@troubadour723

[@Rinthony1]

This is why MASH couldn't be made today. It was incredibly anti-military, anti-war, and, despite its flaws, progressive for its time. The military has its grimy hands on everything now, and conservatives would flip their shit at stuff directly taken word-for-word from the original show.

[@Goomyx1492]

What's insane is there's probably tons of conservatives that love Mash and probably would try to argue it wasn't that political despite its setting. But, certain people seem to actually be insane so..

[@the_sky_is_blue_and_so_am_I]

I was introduced to MASH by my father. He was conservative.

[@easternrebel1061]

I don't really see it so much as Conservatives vs. Liberals per se. A lot of the biggest supporters of the military industrial complex are surprisingly balanced among Republicans and Democrats. Rather I see it as the rich and powerful elites versus the common people that just want to mind their business and be left alone. Basically Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the sane coin. That coin is the American political establishment. The whole right wing versus left wing is a divide and conquer tactic used to keep the people distracted by the "other side" while the real enemy laughs at us for our stupidity and fickleness.

[@AsymmetricalCrimes]

The GOP is against the military now though. Did you forget Trump tried to leave NATO?

[@kloggmonkey]

my favourite scene was when the chief was like "you started world war three! you're too much of a maverick, top gun! i want your badge and your windbreaker now!" and top gun's like "send a maverick to catch one".

[@UD503J]

I think the chief, who was also too old for this shit, called him a loose cannon too.

[@A-G-A-G]

Jesus that sexual harassment part is horrific

[@melodye14]

Agreed. The woman's description of people pulling at her clothes and reaching inside her shirt is so disturbing.

[@eos_aurora]

Yeah that’s horrific

[@ravenrose5712]

Flashing back to Honest Trailers describing the original Top Gun as "a military recruitment tool disguised as a gay romance disguised as an action movie."

[@rachelb.684]

i wrote an essay about this last year and it's hard finding the balance between telling people an essay you're writing about an insidious part of pop culture while also trying not to harsh anyone's vibe because you just want to tell people about something you find interesting which also happens to be kind of fucked up

[@Jarod-vg9wq]

How did the essay go?

[@youknowwhoyouare2269]

Delicate balance necessary that I've given up on years ago due to the insidious nature of propaganda conditioning pre-disposing the masses to mierda

[@RainbowRenegade]

"The first top gun has a ton of repressed homoerotic sexual tension" Thank you!

[@Feefa99]

Quentin Tarantino have very similar interpretation

[@boxcarhobo7017]

Sleep With Me 1993 Quentin Tarentino as a party guest shows up in the final third of the movie in a house party scene cameo where he and another dude talk Top Gun, Mav and Ice Man and the underlined gay vibes they are barely hiding. It is freaking hilarious still. Classic bit.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Is it a rarely heard topic?

[@samuelniles3348]

Tony Scott was gay so I doubt it was repressed

[@globaladdict]

@@samuelniles3348 No. It's just part of the culture. You never heard the phrase it's not gay if it's underway? The jokes about Navy being the gayest is standard. And marines too. Pretty much most of the branches. Everyone just bags on the airforce because most of them end up at comfy desk jobs and they literally get extra pay if they have to stay in Army/Marine accomodations instead of a nice hotel with room service.

[@christopherbare9277]

SkipIntro: "Everyone in this movie is educated to be a hero..." Me, who has read Umberto Eco's 14 features of fascism: "Oh no."

[@nerdywolverine8640]

yeah this is very well structured to set off your fascism alarm bells

[@amiablereaper]

@@nerdywolverine8640 also the constant assertion that The Enemy is both superior and inferior

[@guyincognito320]

For being referenced so often, that's the most braindead, dishonest pseud essay I've ever read. He converted to liberalism as a 10 year old when a black soldier gave him a piece of gum. Plot twist, it was Emmet Till's dad, the one who was executed for raping a local Italian woman.

[@michealstone6883]

First two, I thought it was coincidence, then I thought this guy read Umberto Eco.

[@youknowwhoyouare2269]

America has a lot of nerve declaring enemies while oppressing domestically for centuries @@amiablereaper

[@agroteraaaa]

i hate this movie. not because i've seen it, but because i work in a movie theater and audiences for maverick left more of a mess on the regular than the crowds for minions: rise of gru.

[@lizc6393]

Oh man, this is actually really interesting input. People that leave huge messes are usually super privileged asshats.

[@daltonbedore8396]

@@lizc6393 the exact smooth rain audience this movie was carefully crafted by the Military Industrial Complex to appeal to

[@adrianjuarez1162]

Ohh boy hoo you still hate this movie after it’s out of threatens still? Jesus dude get some help am sorry for the mess but I guess your okay with marvel fans then. 😂😢

[@adrianjuarez1162]

@@daltonbedore8396 no the smooth Brian’s are people who enjoy the marvels and the Disney remakes with the whole modern audience crap that we were told that’s what we need and that doesn’t appeal to anybody. This movie was made to entertain first and enjoyed by me a 24 year who has no interest in the military have you seen the commander in chief Biden you think I want to serve with that asshole in office and military recruitment numbers have been low for the navy and Air Force who’s been trying to push the woke agenda which o believe is propaganda for smooth brains anti military and anti guns morons who believe black rifles are scary 🤪🤪🤣.

[@sistergoodstuff]

shows you what kind of people are fans😢 unthinking and disrespectful

[@Daniko2]

Fantastic commentary. I'm eager to see more of this series. As someone who is pretty much the exact age the military hoped the original Top Gun would impress, I'd like to add a couple comments about that movie. First off, you might have missed an important tie-in between Top Gun and your overall topic of copaganda. The reason the original Top Gun was a bit on the silly side plot-wise was because it wasn't actually a movie. It was a movie-length music video--deliberately so. MTV was only 5 years old when Top Gun came out, and was still playing actual music videos as its primary product. More importantly, Miami Vice was 2 years old when Top Gun was released. That show pioneered the music-video style of tv show, to massive success. That style was basically one cool scene after another with the music not just enhancing the scene, but instead being the main point. Top Gun was the first, and arguably most successful feature film to try the same style. Naturally that style wouldn't have aged well, so they had to have a smidge more plot in the sequel. Second, the original Top Gun wasn't just pro-military. It was every bit as nostalgic as--or even more so than--Maverick. The Reagan era was absolutely all about nostalgia. "Morning in America" was the MAGA of the time. For the generations older than my own, Top Gun was meant to evoke America's pride about WWII and the moon shot, along with memories of Rebel Without a Cause. "Remember that fighting overseas kept the Reds away from home. Remember the amazing tech, and our brave test pilots, who won the space race against the Soviets. Remember that the military gives needed purpose, so we don't lose the all-American rebels who are meant to be the best of us.", the movie said to our parents. "Even", the film added, "remember when we could enjoy homoeroticism all over our screens without thinking about actual homosexuality," it said to a population desperate to pretend AIDS would go away if we just ignored sick gay people hard enough. And yup, all those messages were just as fascist at their core. The difference is that in the mid-80s, those messages were wildly popular, and believed by a clear majority.

[@blueoutrun]

Thanks for the perspective. It's really insightful to read this from someone who was the target demographic from the original and lived through all of the context. I think we forget about MTV a lot, when it was so massively influential on pop culture at the time. Unfortunately, I despair that a lot of that messaging is somehow still popular considering that this movie has gotten a ridiculous amount of accolades and financial success.

[@matheusvillela9150]

Still are

[@nodieza]

I went to see the Blue Angels and I made a comment on FB how at the end of the day watching killing machines do cool tricks is just propaganda and man did I get hell for that one from my wife's side of the family (all retired military).

[@troubadour723]

Sounds like it was worth it. 😀

[@nodieza]

@@troubadour723 100% worth it 😂 Her family and I are diametrically opposed when it comes to just about everything so it was just another day on FB

[@danel1922]

when they're still alive to retire, they're no real heroes then.. too bad

[@lyddig]

babe wake up new Copaganda episode dropped

[@lucasmatiasdelaguilamacdon7798]

Ok, military historian here. I have some background in defense and have worked for my country's ministry of Defense before, I also have some experience in procurement. This movie just oozes Pierre Spray and Jet Mafia vibes sooo much.. Like "oh Drones are going to replace pilots, we have to do something about it..." The entire premise is just bonkers from a tactical perspective. You wouldn't even send fighter jets to do this job, you'd probably send in a drone strike or a long range missile. But the idea of machines doing the job and not humans is probably not very attractive to the target audience of this film that romanticizes military life. Also the entire final showdown between the F14 and what I think was a copy of an F35 is simply bonkers. This oozes the whole Pierre Spray ramblings about the F35 being a bad plane, that fighters should be made for dogfights and nothing else, that the F16 is superior, that the A10 warthog is still a useful plane, and the like. War changes, and it Changes constantly. And interestingly enough, it's mostly those old boomers romanticizing war that refuse to understand that their beloved weapons no longer work. That the military industrial complex has as much power shaping what war is as the soldiers in the battlefield, and that war will always change.

[@dfmrcv862]

Well, for starters, the SU-57 is a different bird than the F-35, though tests do show 5th gen fighters aren't exactly great at Dog fights since... Well they don't have to be... At least the F-35 doesn't as she can target the enemy without even having to face them... But the SU-57 isn't the F-35 so I like to think it's actually throwing shade at Russia, the opposite of what Sprey and the Air Force Mafia liked to do. But that doesn't really make for as fun a film, sadly. Even with the F-18, the film exaggerated some of the maneuvers to make them look more dramatic. That said, fellow Lazerpig enjoyer, "no longer work" isn't the description i would use to describe older weaponry. It's obsolete for some roles. Not others. It's why we haven't gotten rid of the F-15 or F-16. They can't do what the F-22 or F-35 can, but they have a use still, and I can appreciate that.

[@biggieb8900]

Well, to be fair, they explain that they couldn't use drones or missiles because they were GPS jamming the location, which is surprisingly a thing. So I assume the bombs had to be dropped manually using only on board sensors.

[@sirbader1]

The F22 is the most maneuverable fighter in existence.

[@AsymmetricalCrimes]

The Su-57 is barely a 5th gen fighter.

[@lucasmatiasdelaguilamacdon7798]

@@AsymmetricalCrimesThe SU-47 is barely a fighter. Period. Lmao

[@zoe_astra]

I enjoy your videos so much and I get genuinely happy every time I see there’s a new one

[@alicesmith255]

From outside the US (although still same continent, which likely explains where i’m coming from as a different kind of american) it is wild how there’s such a disconnect from US people whenever you mention the military as something horrid and extremely willing and capable of committing the same or worse atrocities that they’re so quick to figure out when you mention the police (yes even limiting the view to atrocities within their country) that it even needs an explanation for why you’d add military propaganda to the copaganda series.

[@gege1178]

38:57 I hate when people describe any piece of media as “apolitical” ,every work of media is political even if I wasn’t intended, a little piece of the creators views will have to be inserted no matter what because everything is political. It’s especially when ridiculous here as its a war movie. wars are up there as one of the most political things ever, and it’s something that can’t be portrayed without picking a side , you are anti-war or pro-war ,and there’s very little room for in-betweenness . Its always only apolitical if the speaker agrees with the politics , and while this does happen on the left it’s way more common on the right , because they view there ideology as the default , it’s “natural” and everything else as a pervasion.

[@PALWolfOS]

Tetris is my favorite political media

[@MaticTheProto]

@@PALWolfOS everything surrounding the game was political

[@54tisfaction]

"Who are we attacking again?" "Anyone."

[@McMomfaceplustwo]

It’s hard for me to resolve my personal beliefs about the overfunding and issues of over glorifying the military with my nostalgia having grown up as a semi “military brat”. My dad was ex Air Force and was one of the mechanic nerds who worked on fighter jets. We were living in Germany when the wall came down, but had to live off the base as we were just civilians. When I watch Top Gun 1 & 2 I just get the warm fuzzies and the adrenaline rush all at once. It’s a powerful natural rush. My views on it at the time were never complicated because there was no internet to spread the information far and wide, I was too young to get my hands or my head around a print copy think piece, and my daddy made it seem cool, so it was cool.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

No one is immune to this messaging, even our hero's

[@daltonbedore8396]

yea but you are an adult now. inthink some people mourn the fact they cant stay a kid forever, and try to keep that inner child alive by believing rhe same things they always have.

"The enemy is too strong and too weak" "action for action's sake..." oh I've read my share on fascism to know where this is going....

[@donovian2538]

The homoerotic thing is just how servicemembers talk to each other lmao pretty accurate

[@58209]

it is, but i don't see that as a dismissal of the homoerotic subtext of the film, but rather an invitation to talk more about how men in toxic, repressive environments use homoerotic jokes, "gay chicken", and sexual harassment as a surrogate for expressing sincere vulnerability, and how those behaviors are ultimately harmful (both for the straight servicemembers who are afraid to be geniune with one another, the queer servicemembers who have to quietly put up with the mockery, and everyone who is targeted by the sexual violence).

[@dangerousdays2052]

There is a lot of butt love in the men's showers in the military. Some of it is fun. Some of it is not fun.

[@simontmn]

Being British, I agree but find this aspect of US military culture really odd. IME it's not part of British military culture at all. At least it wasn't in the 1990s when I was in the army reserve. Our culture is focused on alcohol, mostly beer!

[@youknowwhoyouare2269]

@@58209 America's got wide range of issues with Women in service, let alone the gay and trans segments of military pop.

[@youknowwhoyouare2269]

@@58209 agreed wholeheartedly & will double down on message & impact of masc. in topgun + political propaganda irl= chaos

[@NSilverwolf]

Always enjoy your deep dives, this one being no exception. As a filmmaker I don't know ANYONE who wasn't blown away by the technical of the filmmaking on display - it's pretty astonishing how well it pulls and pushes your experience. And every moment was so clearly carefully...painstakingly considered in so many ways...but by a very specific subset of craftspersons...who I am always wondering about...did they think about the wider implications? Should they have? Would they have if they were a different diversity of artists? In a project driven by the need to make money...as all film in Hollywood primarily seeks to do? I wonder at the kind of long term effects of the messages the film is subtly and NOT subtly sending out...will that burnished "view" of America's military prowess etc...stick as well over the long arc of time? When social media can keep a debate front and center to at least a certain portion of the population...longer than a news cycle (at least a little bit?). Or does nostalgia overpower it forever? Perhaps I am just interested enough in media criticism and in filmmaking to be able to approach this with both hats on...and agree with what you're saying...despite what the movie's message about don't think might be implying. Thanks again for thoughtful and sometime unpleasant to think about topics (it's hard to criticize things you like!).

[@emersonpage5384]

In order to make a movie as well-crafted as that, you have to know what you're making in some way. I think they just agree with the wider implications, they agree that the military is cool, and put their efforts into making a movie that supports that.

[@matheusvillela9150]

It's crazy that movies like Battle of Lake Changjin are treated like "jingoist propaganda" (yeah, no shit, the movie comissioned by the CCP Ministry of Propaganda is propaganda), but Top Gun is talked about as just an action movie, COD has "no politics", etc.

[@Nocturnalux]

And there are Chinese movies with anti-war messages. Like 1942.

[@cbeaudry4646]

You gotta do 24 I'm not sure if you've covered it already, but it's crazy. The post-9/11 super counterterrorism cop

[@troubadour723]

That was one of the most manipulative TV shows I've ever seen, and that's saying a lot.

[@colindowden2182]

@@troubadour723 Yeah dude sure it is.

[@Donteatacowman]

I know this isn't the point, and I'm only repeating stuff I've heard elsewhere since i'm not a film buff, but the side-by-side shots are really showing the "films now are harder to watch" common complaint - in terms of poor lighting, framing, etc. Almost every shot seems to illustrate this. 1:07 is a frame I picked randomly but is a great example. The top shot is clear and readable, with the light sources and framing chosen purposefully and with the poses giving us information about the situation and characters. The bottom shot, it's hard to see what's going on or who anyone is. Like they were trying to go for very sharp contrasty light but it's just not working- we can see more of the background character on the left than the characters in the foreground. I'm not familiar with the movie but the bottom one has to be the remake - if it were the original, who would bother remaking it?

[@Donteatacowman]

Of course I appreciate the rest of the video - like I said, I don't know much about film, so I like learning.

[@troubadour723]

Technical standards are pretty low these days, despite the massive amount in economic resources.

[@mophead_xu]

@@troubadour723 yea i think it's this odd push for "realism" or whatever the fuck. not sure who started it or which movie with poor shots and lightings got so popular that other filmmakers went, "now let's do it like that too" but i do hear that "but it's realistic!!" talking point more and more often these days -- from both people who supposedly work in producing and critics.

[@illiterate467]

@@mophead_xu it's so funny to me that "more realistic" in cinema seems like it should mean "let's create a more accurate portrayal," but so many directors use it to mean "let's make this movie look like garbage." Cinema hasn't gotten more realistic, but rather it's become "hyper-real."

[@mophead_xu]

@@illiterate467 in their obsessed chase for realism they've lost what "being realistic" even mean, it seems. _if_ anyone calling the shots ever understood what it's supposed to mean at all. 💀💀💀

[@Brandon33akahk]

It blew my mind when I learned that there are millions of unexploded bombs in Cambodia, which we weren't at war with like you said... it's insane the power we give these idiots. P.S. I'm sure Henry Kissinger was involved somehow.

[@noaheast7600]

Spoiler: Henry Kissinger was in fact involved

[@edgarcardiff7874]

@@noaheast7600 I blame him for my marriage failing to be honest

[@matheusvillela9150]

The US dropped more bombs at Cambodia than were used during WW2 by all countries involved

[@ThatGuy-ec2qi]

And Laos. The US carpet bombed Laos during the Vietnam war too.

[@homemadefilms5718]

War is inherently political. You can’t make a war movie without sending some political message

[@alexanderphilip1809]

You seem to be unfamiliar with the difference between domestic and international politics.

[@matheusvillela9150]

@@alexanderphilip1809 War involves both domestic and international politics which are deeply intertwined

[@MaticTheProto]

@@alexanderphilip1809 and you seem to lack any education

[@brano13177]

@@alexanderphilip1809 Domestic and Internal Politics: are by definition, categorically: politics

[@aris-w2206]

Skip Intro, you can be my wing man anytime.

[@Tigershark_3082]

Kind of a funny thing, but Top Gun Maverick has nothing do to with the TOPGUN school. The first movie actually had something to do with it

[@F-18Super]

Yes correct it’s a sequel to the original movie and as the title would suggest….. this movie is about MAVERICK

[@kayin30]

The title had my interest. The video/content had my attention. Congrats. Great piece. Not sure if it was intentional but your usage of 'unravel instead of 'unwind' after work felt way more like real life. 'unwinding' almost feels nostalgic. Thanks.

[@caseymckenna7111]

Don’t ever stop doing this stuff, homie. It’s very important work that you do.

[@LezbeOswald]

as i've said for years: ACAB includes the military, as, what is the military except just international police? also wow imagine being so far to the right that you can say that something is both "pro-America" and "apolitical" without even a HINT of irony.

[@troubadour723]

I love how "pro-military" it's made out to be yet it celebrates a pilot blatantly disobeying orders and showing complete disregard for the military chain of command. So it's like the audience gets to have it both ways. But at least they're sticking it to the "bad guys". This film and its enormous success is a HUGE step backwards. By the way, you left out how apparently a giant chunk of the plot to Maverick is Star Wars.

[@TheSpeep]

I relatively recently became a big plane nerd after getting into Ace Combat, yet I never rly cared for Top Gun, and there is one big simple reason for that: Because as someone from outside the US, I can do without the 20 hours of MURICCA being screamed at my face. Strangereal is cool specifically because it means I can play with cool airplanes without the American jingoism, and I appreciate that.

[@kanabis134]

Ace combat also had it's amurica f yeaaah iteration, ace combat: assault horizon

[@TheSpeep]

@@kanabis134 True, the black sheep of the franchise.

[@simmyjester]

When I was in middle school (around 1997) I bought a mix tape with the Top Gun soundtrack on one side (and the Billy Joel Album Running on Ice on the other) at a garage sale. I absolutely loved it and played it until it eventually wore thin. I didn't see the actual movie until I was a senior in high school, and it was...okay. The casual sexism stood out to me even then, and the mission and the enemy were unclear--I thought just to me, that I'd missed something, so I'm glad to know that it was kind of deliberately ambiguous.

[@bettywing52]

Very well written and produced. The title says it all. It seems dangerous to have a military motivated by such a facile group of emotional devotions that the film portrays. You brought real depth to the topic.

[@christopherroa9781]

So, couple of quick notes: "the enemy" in the beginning of top gun was actually intended as Libyan. The beginning photo incident that opens top gun is based on a real event between US Navy pilots and Libyan fighter pilots in the early 1980s

[@Klero6869]

I never saw original top-gun. That scene when Tom Cruise talks to goose (I think he was called) not ending in them kissing always shocks me.

[@Ajc-ni3xn]

14:33 i think it's interesting that this point of "good guys need to do bad things sometimes. but theyre good because theyre done by the good guys" comes in a lot in military propaganda, liek in modern warfare, where the good western country guys do the most twisted shit but since the soldiers are good the actions are excusable. it really individualizes the ideas of good and bad and i think that pushes an interesting narrative. Jacob Geller has a really good video on this called "Does Call of Duty Believe in anything." pretty good stuff.

[@Nocturnalux]

Gundam 00 is a nutshell. Celestial Being is “the good guys” by fiat more than anything else.

[@MaticTheProto]

I saw that video too, it’s great and also sad that Americans don’t realize it by default

[@TITANia69420]

Oh so it's ok for Kyle Garrick for shooting an unarmed woman square in the face 0.000001 seconds after he entered the room because she was "Going for the detonator"... But when its a bab-

[@dragonslair951167]

16:30 "Holy smokes that's beautiful" "It's the wrath of god, sir, contained in metal and directed by man. We start thinking of it as pretty or decorative, we risk forgetting that its purpose is downright ugly."

[@Tamlinearthly]

I always assumed the enemy in these movies was Cobra.

[@tetsujin_144]

Well the heroes are flying Skystrikers...

[@Nocturnalux]

It’s Zeon. Actually, I think America is Zeon.

[@austinreed7343]

@@Nocturnalux Zeon Vs Cobra makes sense.

[@Nocturnalux]

@@austinreed7343 Colony Drop! It solves everything.

[@nobodyexceptme7794]

Ay bruh I recently subbed to you after finding your vids on a Angel/Buffy nostalgia kick. I ended up watching quite a bit of your copaganda series for the shield, lucifer, etc. (can we get a bones epilogue) Either way this your first proper update since I subbed and I am GENUINELY excited to watch your take on this right now. Top tier content. Great for when the edibles kick in.

[@donovian2538]

Bones epilogue is definite must

[@tylerlerner4808]

He covered spooky cops, but not quirky cops (Bones, Psych, Monk, etc…)

[@nobodyexceptme7794]

@@tylerlerner4808 yeah that's perfect, he gotta add a new episode now.

[@ankaarne]

Highly recommend the "Theaters of War" documentary referenced in this video, it goes into what Skip Intro talks about but with a much finer detail and has interviews with Oliver Stone on how much untalked dealings goes on with the Military when making movies.

[@1950sTardigrade]

when he keeps bringing up more and more of Umberto Eco's 14 points

[@wheresmyeyebrow1608]

I love how the cinematography is done so it feels like an 80s film as well, just like how you can tell some movies are from the 2000s just because of the specific camera shots used. Love Maverick!

[@tim290280]

I never understood the Top Gun hype. It always struck me as corny nonsense. And after watching the trailer for this new one with the speech in front of the giant American flag, I thought it was going to be a recruiting ad. Good to see someone discussing this.

[@djangofett4879]

The original was so corny that I turned it off about 25 minutes into the film. it was 110% dog crap

[@tim290280]

@@djangofett4879, in fairness, I do remember a closeted friend loving Top Gun. So it wasn't all bad.

[@fashion_fckyou]

That just you 😂 the first movie made 360+ million dollars in 1986 by now is closer to 800 million dollars and the new movie Maverick made 1.480+ billion dollars so a lot of people love this movies and they have huge impact on the pop culture.

[@tim290280]

@@fashion_fckyou, did you read what I wrote? I said I couldn't understand the hype.

[@fashion_fckyou]

@@tim290280 exactly man that's why you don't understand the hype of this movies 🤣!

[@starexcelsior]

Not sure if someone said it already but In the original Top Gun the enemy was supposed to be North Korea however since the US and NK were negotiating at the time the military thought it would be a bad idea to name NK as the enemy so they just replaced all mention of Korea with "the enemy"

[@laurenm3148]

"All of the grieving is fully clothed." Amazing.

[@zurzakne-etra7069]

This is such an amazing breakdown... You've struck gold with this video... It will sadly probably always be relevant smh

[@protennis365]

No it isn't.

[@mattwong5403]

25:40 "We no longer have the technological advantage because the rogue nation has 5th Gen fighters." The US already has advanced 5th Gen fighters. The most likely reasons why they used F/A-18s instead of 5th Gen fighters is because the F-35 and F-22 only have one seat, and the F-22 (the world's best air superiority fighter) is only used by the Air Force, and this is a film about the Navy.

[@kleinerprinz99]

The whole talk about that fifth generation fighter is to justify the tremendous costs of exactly those platforms youre talking about. Thats the point. Billions of billions of dollars wasted for new killing toys for the the whole military branches.

[@isaacdalziel5772]

Also, the SU-57s in the movie have not had a particularly good record. Their specifications are quite a lot better than their actual abilities.

[@caffetiel]

@@isaacdalziel5772 They don't have any combat capabilities--they're not in production and RusFed can't afford to fly them, anyway. Or build any more prototypes? Sanctions basically killed the Felon lol The only nation with parity or near-parity fighters at this point afaik is China's J-20.

[@milovarquiel]

@@caffetiel Just like with the F-35 and F-22, they're are shit in real world scenarios.

[@caffetiel]

@@milovarquiel According to RT, sure, but both the F-22 and F-35 are in full production and can actually be flown in combat. They have been flown in combat, even. I have yet to see a reputable source say anything as negative about either craft that would put them in the same field as the utter failure that is the Su-57, which should have been deployable like five years ago but has only six operational production craft, and production has been completely halted due to sanctions and design failures.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

One of the most underrated channels. Love your work bro.

[@amberdent651]

The Top Gun movies are sports movies, and that is a huge reason that they work so well as propaganda. The enemies are always faceless and/or ambiguous; the stakes are never start-a-world-war high, instead they’re insular and framed like a sporting match; the obstacle is always if Tom Cruise or one of his buddies can outperform the enemy, and logistics/command is always holding them back; hell, Miles Teller gets a shitty sports movie backstory (subbing old sports legend dad for dead aviator dad) and a “don’t think, do” moment that makes _zero_ sense in the context if _flying a fighter jet._ But that’s what makes them work. You can root for the characters like in a sports movie and not think whatsoever about the politics of war, especially the politics of becoming a solider or enlisting. It’s fucking ingenious as it is sinister.

[@jimbrown5091]

The quid pro quo between the armed forces and Bruckheimer, Bay, etc is well known (among those that know) and is a large part of why 12 year old me LOVED Top Gun and 47 year old me refused to watch Top Gun: Maverick. At the time the original Top Gun premiered, my father was 21 years into a US Army career, and about 9 years past being a recruiter.

[@maciejgrenda216]

that sounds very interesting, can you elaborate on your motives and your father's role?

[@snickel2584]

Fell asleep during movie but watched last 45 minutes which I enjoyed.

[@agraciotti]

That was a terrific analysis! Probably the best one I've seen on youtube so far. I came out of the theater scratching my head for how can I love a movie SO much and still think it's problematic as hell LOL.

[@thisyrsgrrl]

Would you ever do one of these about We Own This City? In my opinion it's the closest we've come to a non-copaganda depiction of American policing and I'd be so curious to hear your thoughts on it!

[@theeducationofbayush1201]

Question? Would you ever make a video on the birth of a nation? I've heard of it's cultural significance, and seen a couple of it's truly awful scenes, but I wonder if there's more that I could learn about it? Love your vids!

[@jongmaster2]

Top Gun: Maverick has the exact same story line and phrases as Star Wars: New Hope. 1. training to fly through a tight trench run 2. cannot fly above trench run due to guns ontop of trench 3. training to shoot guided missle into very small target hitting a core target to disable attack 4. guided missle system gets damaged and Maverick says "dont think" similar to force ghost Ben Kenobi "use the force" 5. missle hits target at an "impossibly" sharp angle

[@CSXIV]

I have a few comments, so: 1. I've seen lots of things on "Top Gun," but you are the first person I've seen point out the implications of the scene where Maverick is hearing about what happened to his father. I always put that down as an example of a trend in 80's action movies. I'm not the only one to point this out, but a lot of 80's action movies have this theme of going back to Vietnam, with implications that the US lost because of all the anti-war politicians. That scene struck me as the only subtle part of "Top Gun," since a lot of these movies literally go back to Vietnam (Rambo, the entire Missing in Action series, etc.). Instead of literally going back to Vietnam, it implies that we didn't screw that up. 2. I was about to comment about how all of the nostalgic themes seem to echo (ha!) Umberto Eco's Elements of Ur Fascism, but I watched the video to the end and realized that was the point. 3. To further the "The Enemy is nobody:" when they first mentioned that the enemy had F-14A's, my first thought was Iran. Iran is the reason why almost all the F-14's were scrapped when the US Navy decided to retire them, because Iran has a few F-14A's that we sold them and we wanted to make sure they didn't have the parts to fix them. Except that terrain is obviously not Iran. The 5th Generation Fighters appear to be Su-54's-a Russian built plane that-I don't think there are very many of them in existence (contrast: the MIG-28 doesn't exist and those enemy planes in the original are F-5's. They're also the same planes that the Top Gun instructors fly). Uranium enrichment could be any of them, but both North Korea and Iran are more likely to provoke a response. I almost want to say the enemy is actually Belka from the "Ace Combat" games since that's the only thing that would have F-14A's and Su-54's, has mountainous terrain and would be building Uranium Enrichment in violation of that world's ban on nukes (created because of...actually, Belka nuking itself). Also, the whole mission seems like an "Ace Combat" mission with "Top Gun" slapped on it.

[@paulinagabrys8874]

Belka did nothing wrong XD

[@9fmradisapratama]

Don't you dare to trigger Top Gun understanders to say Ace Combat is 200% Top Gun clone, and the development inside is inspired by it!

[@MaticTheProto]

I mean they LITERALLY just copied the canyon run mission from ace combat 7

[@dracorex426]

1:36 I think you mean "some fun beach ball *bouts* between buff bros"

[@empatheticrambo4890]

Just want to throw it out there, but I’d love to see your take on my favorite show with cops at the core: Psych

[@galactic85]

He is planning on doing a video about private investigator shows at some point, like Veronica Mars. I'm guessing he will talk about it in that video.

[@empatheticrambo4890]

@@galactic85 that would be fun too. I feel like Psych involves a lot of police content too

[@jasonsamuels3757]

I love how this video got interrupted by an ad for Top Gun: Maverick on Paramount+.

[@LJStability]

This channel is popping off! Love your content man!

[@F-18Super]

27:52 dude………he threw away the F-18’s NATOPS because they were already in service fighter pilots…….. that’s like telling an F1 driver to read a students driving manual.

they've gone all the way down memory lane, but failed to take my breath away.

[@REHABxREJECT777]

I paused my fanfic to watch this masterpiece of a video

[@kleinerprinz99]

There is a distinct difference of portrayal of average working class people before and after the 1929 / 30 depression and same goes for portral of the police. Before that turning point the police was depicted as corrupt and serving themselves and the Big Man, and being criminal was a necessity sometimes to survive in hard times and get atleast some food on the table. To make ends meet. Socio-Economics is everything. We have crime because the ruling class wants there to be crime, because they are the biggest krooks themselves and need diversion and discrimination. Without the poor the rich would not exist.

[@WitD2013]

I think the best antiwar movie I've seen was "All Quiet on the Western Front." The original, not the remake. I think it did a great job of showing the horrors of war through the idealized and naive eyes of a young person. If you want an anti-war film, there it is imo. It does nothing to glorify war, and treats those who do as idiots who have never experienced it.

[@readwrecks]

Man, the ads on this platform are out of control! I’m gonna watch this video on Nebula

[@thejudgmentalcat]

"Come And See" is definitely an anti-war film

[@MaticTheProto]

So is all quiet on the western front and das Boot

[@sarahluise3153]

not really, it's pro war but a righteous war against Nazis

[@picassodilly]

I’m guessing from this video that you need more ideas of shows cover in your copaganda series. Might I humbly suggest ghostbusters and Reno 911 as potential future episodes.

[@connerblank5069]

...Damnit, I totally would watch Top Gun if it were a Shonen anime, wouldn't I?

[@vermeermarkiv4450]

Okay, not gonna lie. When you started talking about Maverick's Dad (a part of the movie I don't EVEN remember), I assumed he pulled a Jake Sully from AVATAR and fought against the states. War Crimes in Cambodia were not on the bingo card. Sheesh!

[@enysuntra1347]

40:06 hard dislike. Umberto Eco describes 14 criteria, that in their RADICAL expression of A NUMBER OF THEM are common to fascism, like nowadays Ruscism (PutinHuilo manages to check almost all 14 points). Every country idealises their military personnel and needs some form of patriotism. "It's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Chuck him out, the brute!' - But it's 'Saviour of 'is country' when the guns begin to shoot." A fascism sees their "heroic sacrifice" up to deification for the "greater good" as important - however, not all fascisms. Fascism is a very versatile ideology; Silone, after Bondy, said "the fascists of tomorrow won't say: 'We are fascist!', but 'We are Anti-fascist'". That does not mean that every Anti-Fascist is a Fascist in disguise, but that fascism is so malleable that it will use anti-fascist reasoning behind its actions - e.g. "De-Nazification of the Ukraine" (Far-Right Ukrainian parties got 2.6% of the vote in the last election). Claiming systems, let alone politicians, were "fascist" because they fulfill some of Eco's criteria out of context and far from radicalised is exactly that "Wolf!"-crying that allowed the first Fascism in Europe since 1975 to start the first war of conquest in Europe since 1941 flying under the RaDaR. Because there was so much hyperventilation of "fascism in America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", nobody paid attention to Ruscism that fascisised at least since 2014, with its brain-washing youth organisations like the "Yunarmiya" (to which the USA has no pendant), full control of every aspect of the press and information (to which the USA has no pendant), an unopposed campaign to build up the amorphous "West" as the enemy both stronger and weaker ("woke") as Russia (to which the USA only came even close during the McCarthy-witch hunts)...... It is dangerous to cry: "Wolf!!!", when the wolf in question in the grand scheme of things is but a Yorkshire Terrier. It is irresponsible to do so while a real wolf resp. bear lurks right behind the border and now has begun to actively attack the first allied country. Top Gun are dumb, mindless action flicks; South Korea made an action film about fighter pilots with much more substance. It is advertisement; whoever calls it "propaganda" is lucky to never have experienced true war propaganda. What it is not is "fascist".

[@Derpderpson123]

so on point, this guy is the Dunning-Kruger effect personified

[@enysuntra1347]

@@Derpderpson123 I wouldn't go that far, but +Skip Intro has some really, really problematic takes. Talking about "fascism" while Europe is attacked by a real, card-carrying fascism (#ruscism) that'd have been lauded in the Montreux conference however has real-world consequences.

[@giorgioelgar2272]

The concept that pilots and more widely soldiers are still necessary, is a key recruitment driver for the military atleast in the uk

[@TheNobleFive]

Russia's invasion did most of the work in reinvigorating that concept for much of the world, to be fair.

[@Jarod-vg9wq]

10:41 that soundtrack no matter what y’all think of the film still kicks butt.

[@benjaminodonnell258]

I think you miss how the film often subverts the nostalgia angle as much as it wallows into it.

[@yeetmaestro575]

As soon as I saw someone call this movie “military propaganda” (I’m not denying it is) I knew I was going to enjoy it.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

You enjoy it because it's military propaganda?

[@calebbarnhouse496]

​@@itcouldbelupus2842he knew it would be badass because that's how the military gets people to want to join

[@Aristocles22]

It's not anti-intellectual to trust one's instincts and to learn by experience. And to be unafraid to push boundaries and yes, break a few commonly-held assumptions about what's possible or not. And just to make sure you understand it, actual naval aviation and the air force require a TON of reading, higher reasoning skills, mathematics, and an understanding of exactly how the extremely complicated machines they use work. They're not anti-intellectual by any means and wouldn't promote that in a movie they have any say over.

[@stephennootens916]

See I would have read don't think about as to not over think things. Like a medic they have to make snap judgements or else whatever chance of saving life could be lost. They can't go over ever possibly angel. They have to see and use what has been drilled into them when they were training and time on the job and do.

[@matheusvillela9150]

It also requires not thinking why you are doing what you are doing and why you are fighting "the enemy"

[@Aristocles22]

Context is required to understand the "don't think, just do" line. When flying at or well beyond the speed of sound, reaction time is everything. Ever heard of an OODA loop? It stands for Observation, Orientation, Decision, Action. A good pilot can complete an OODA loop in about 2 seconds. Even a 1 second advantage over another pilot in combat has the upper hand, and stopping to think when one's window of opportunity is a split second is lethal. Any misgivings about the mission have to be resolved when on the ground. And no, this isn't a matter of dropping nuclear weapons, that's not a split-second thing, just in case someone brings up Fail Safe or Dr. Strangelove. This is a reference to split-second tactical decisions, not using WMDs.

[@Ancusohm]

Thank you for talking about this movie.

[@Kavino]

Compared to Top Gun itself I am more interested in just how Tom Cruise remained popular and viable in this industry after all that scandal with Scientology (of which he is still part of). What is going on behind the scenes?

[@darthbob88]

22:06 Actually, Iran has exactly the fighters to dogfight with the US war machine, some of the last flying F-14s. :D

[@darthbob88]

But seriously, they come from a sale to the Shah before the revolution, and Iran hasn't had access to spare parts other than what they can make themselves due to sanctions. "Flying" is about all you can say about them.

[@Jim73]

lol, there is a big difference between "unraveling after a long day" and "unwinding after a long day". Strange, but true.

[@appa609]

You wouldn't enlist if you wanted to be a fighter pilot. You'd apply to the air force academy. And they have plenty of candidates.

[@VoiceOfTheEmperor]

Is it propaganda? Absolutely. Is it fun? More so. I think it's just a film that no matter what way on the political compass we swing, I honestly think that we should just be able to enjoy movies from time to time.