Tearing Down the Model T of Our Time - Autoline After Hours 284

[@jameshoffman552]

When the i3 was the ‘Model T of our time’. Classic!

[@wizzyno1566]

It never was. The Model 3 is.

[@airheart1]

Mr. Munro really is an outstanding guest for you guys. What a wealth of specific information on a depth level you just don't find in the industry often. Having that engineering level information on vehicles goes beyond just being an informed consumer.. it really shows us how good a company is in its innovation and tech. I'd watch more of this level of new car info any day.

[@jesseparris6507]

This has been the best show ever with Sandy Munro. Great questions all around. If you are curious, The 'Mrs Quandt' Sandy referenced is Johanna Quandt, major shareholder of BMW, who's worth is around $44B as of Dec 2014.

[@advaith1]

Jesse Parris She is not worth anywhere near $ 44B, that is the worth for the Quandt family

[@jesseparris6507]

***** I stand corrected. Let's just say she is not worrying about her personal budget.

[@donswier]

(If anyone is still watching this today...) Curious after 2 years owing a 2017 REx: Why aren't other vehicles using this series hybrid formula? After re-coding the ICE to be selected anytime below 75% state of charge, we use i3 for any & all trips, local or out of state (71k miles now). We enjoy the benefit of nightly home charging, a 130mile EV range and never fret over being hostage to public charging. We burned only 25 gallons of gasoline last year to cover 24,000 miles. Is that a sin? It seems a small ICE (with 20% of the power of the electric drive motor 35hp ICE for a 170hp drive motor) is plenty capable of keeping the battery sustained on longer trips. I would think you could apply that same formula to a passenger or canper van, too. If the drive motor was 300 hp, a simple 60hp ICE, optimized for charging, would suffice on long trips. I suppose a day trip of 600 miles at 86mph into a headwind would slowly drop the battery SOC, but we typically don't drive that way. All this focus on humongous, heavy, costly batteries and billion$$$ spent on public charging is ignoring an ideal solution with PHEVs and range extenders.. What am I missing?

[@user-th9ug9kq1z]

Same reason why electric bikes use belt drive instead of electric pedals: Carrying around an extra generator and loss of efficiency.

[@JacquesDanielLabelle]

As an engineer I like Monroe approach toward technologies and costs analysis, nice business model I see the genius in this guy. May you have lots of success.

[@scottwozniak3988]

As an i3 owner, I found this review absolutely fascinating! I never realized how truly advanced the tech and design are. Makes me appreciate my car all that much more. Great Show!

[@keyboard49]

I never cease to be impressed by the technical people that you can only see on this show. This particular show should be manditory for every CEO in the auto industry. If they saw it, they would say " Why haven't we bought the report?" If BMW can engineer this, why does GM have trouble with a simple ignition switch?

[@albeit1]

Sandy is a great guest. I'd never even heard of Autoline before he appeared on the Model 3 teardown show. That one was phenomenal. So interesting. I actually was involved in a teardown of a Mazda transfer case one time when I worked at New Venture Gear during college so this topic is somewhat familiar. It's interesting to see how different companies do things.

[@V10PDTDI]

wow this was one of the best show ever.

[@vyrnmn]

This was super interesting. Thank you to all involved.

[@NewCastleIndiana]

I have an i3 for the weekend+ ! Perfect timing. Love this thing.

[@advaith1]

Phenomenal Show ... Really liked the Guest and his insight into the i3 design

[@Omnis2]

Amazing, eye-opening show. Love this stuff.

[@chris323i]

Great insight. Interesting how many people don't think much of this car but fail to realize all the technical breakthroughs that it utilizes. Excellent discussion.

[@brucec43]

Making it an expensive failure and a test bed, not a real production car that is sustainable. So far nobody is making one that costs the same as a IC engine vehicle. Which means no sales till gas goes way up.

[@johnbellingham3422]

I only just recently came across this & also found it fascinating like one of the other commenters, great work! 👍

[@charged]

One of the best After hours I've seen. I hope Mr. Munro generated some added interest in that report so he's keen to return in the future.

[@andrazlogar5663]

This is an absolute gem

[@Swampster70]

The carbon construction from the i3 has shown up in the S1000RR HP4 Race motorcycle. It uses carbon frame, a first for a motorcycle, and carbon wheels.

[@Chris012345671]

Cool show and information. I am an aircraft design engineer so I can relate to what they are talking about. one comment was flat out wrong though, Aluminum does corrode, especially when it's in proximity to CFRP.

[@areitu]

What is it about CFRP that makes aluminum corrode?

[@Chris012345671]

@@areitu it induces a galvanic reaction.

[@shellfishdoh6635]

@@Chris012345671 BMW uses adhesive to join dissimilar material, the adhesive prevent the corrosion you mentioned. it' s in Monroe's report which is now only $10. I've sent the link to a bunch of my engineering buddies, quite a read...

[@Chris012345671]

@@shellfishdoh6635 Thats what we do in aviation as well. There are a number of methods to prevent corrosion, some unique to joining it with CFRP; however, my original comment was in reference to the video that said aluminum 'does not corrode', which is incorrect.

[@shellfishdoh6635]

​@@Chris012345671 yeah, Sandy needs to watch the details next time, he is usually pretty good at catching himself. As far as I know any material will corrode if the right elements are in place. I'm more interested in how they manage the thermos expansion and shrinkage between the two materials.

[@Arora94]

Thanks for the great insight. Best show so far.

[@MrCarGuy]

Great show. He's an awesome guest.

[@djgate]

What a great guy Sandy appears to be, I like his sense of humour.

[@jmwarden1]

Sandy, I have a 2018 BMW I3s REX and ran the battery down to the point that the REX came on and I didn't know it was running until I pulled into my garage and got out and heard something running that sounded like a quiet little fan. I went to the backIt was the REX and it shut off a few seconds later

[@nicolasfonrose103]

John Warden I think what you heard was actually the fan that cools the REX when it has run (I have an i3 REX too and I have that noise a few times). But the REX itself is not very loud either when it doesn’t need to generate too much power.

[@andyboyd7511]

Good gracious this is fascinating. I did not think a room full of guys chatting could be so interesting frankly.

[@NonToxicPersonalCare]

In awe, WOW what a car. Thought i3 was amazing but didn't know how much! Fascinating what they did. Sandy Munro must be back with more. Maybe was meant to be city car but i3 owners take it to the next level.

[@MichaelAChang]

Have him back for another hour, or two, or five! Please!

[@mmetti]

The part they get from Morocco is Cobalt, Australia also provides cobalt as well.

[@emmanuelhernandez3335]

My God he was holding part of a car frame welded to the suspension like I was holding the frame of my mountain bike. He showed the revolutionized motor. circuit board of the infotainment topped with the best battery in the world. This revelation alone would scramble the Korean, Chinese and Japanese engineers for a piece of the action on the new wave in car making.

[@TL243]

You guys are awesome. Such depth of knowledge. Wish you would talk about how the cafe standards continue to kill right sized vehicles in the us as well as people not in any car.

[@lexusfan100]

that was awsome!!! bring him back again plzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[@dogownrpenna]

If I knew there was forensic level stuff in the auto industry, I would have gone for engineering!

[@MarioDallaRiva]

Wow! What an excellent episode, gents! Very, very interesting. I've watched several KZbin factory production videos of the i3 which I found to be quite fascinating so this discussion complemented that info. Thanks!

[@Thoughmuchistaken]

I like the exterior of the i3, and I love the interior. Two problems that will likely stop me from buying a used 2019 i3s to keep for a long time in a few years: 153miles might still not be enough for me long term, and the tires, they are a strange size so supply could be hard/costly in the long term. Also it's an impressive car, but it should be said I've seen some repair bills for these that are the cost of a brand new subcompact.

[@MikeYoungeasytravel]

Great show! If Sandy is reading this - Is the 2019/2020/2021 I3 with the 42kwh battery still relevant in the market?

[@mikstratok]

"...from an engineering standpoint, everything was jaw dropping ..."

[@brucec43]

That Monroney sticker has the same effect.

[@techismycologne]

What an absolute genius. This man said that "Everything from the past is the past, everything from here forward is what's going to happen" referencing the BMW i3. Now nearly every single automaker is transitioning to EV's, most of which with a skateboard-deck battery design and an electric motor (Primarily in the rear) w/ a small frunk/boot in the front.

[@Jasonfallen71]

Most impressively Sandy sort of predicted that future EV’s would have to adopt innovations like the aluminum casting of a major part of the future passenger car. He brought one to show off he was so certain the tech was the future. The man deserves his fans. Even before a Tesla ever entered his business.

[@BroManz37]

i generally dont care for autoline after hours...BUT i love when Munro and associates are on

[@emmanuelhernandez3335]

If this were a marketing stunt, BMW aced it. This is a surprise attack by BMW that should send shivers down the spines of the competition

[@francescomarialeo]

BMW has admitted that the BMW i3 has become profitable.

[@johanramireztaffa9817]

Feel lucky to have the 2014 bev loaded Tera. Decided for the non Rex because it made no sense to get a ice. I can understand the reasoning for the Rex though in my case the bev is the way to go if you want the electric car experience. The car is an amazing machine and it rides incredibly. It’s definitely a weird look, but this is a pioneering vehicle not exactly a runway model. The purpose of the ev experience is achieved with the i3. Now I’m waiting for the SUV bevs. I don’t think I could ever go back to ice cars except for the classic v8s from 60’s through early 70’s. Lucky to live in this era of rapid innovation. Tesla model s 3 and x are great cars as well just didn’t have the money to drop or the time to wait.

[@electrictroy2010]

The range extender only turns-on after the battery drops to empty, so you still have the EV experience but no range worries .

[@KillroyX99]

The BMW i3 is so innovative. The engineering and the design is amazing. The only downside is that in 2017 in the US only about 500 a month sold!!! Yikes.

[@rainersta7073]

Kind of a boom startet in Germany by 2020....when goverment paid around 6.600 $ extra if you buy new EV. The I3 sold from that moment around 12000 pieces a year just in Germany. (is a middle class number...Tesla Modell 3 sold 30.000) And you got additional good discounts from BMW or very good leasing offers. I could have leased it by 200$ each month/7500 miles a year....this is possible, because the 6600 $ from state are subtracted from the 24 months payment amount. Another point is improved loading infrastructure and sufficient range meanwhile. They finish the model by July 22😪 I ordered one of the last avaiable models in december 21....hopefully delivered in May 22.

[@randolphlee4586]

It's the best car I have ever owned. (i3s 2021) I will never sell it, and if my heirs are wise, they will keep it too, as in 75 years, it will be seen as the way things are designed for small-volume production in the future. Don’t give them a pass on the design of the AC compressor that is a weakness as when it fails after 50,000 miles in Arizona, where it is not only cooling you but cooling the battery packs; there is a better than a slight chance that when bits of your dying compressor enters the beautifully engineered micro cooling channels the repair bill won’t be one or two thousand bucks but on the order of $20,000 if BMW repairs it… they could have prevented this by fitting a filter downstream of the compressor. Moving parts are a source of debris. I will establish a “replace AC compressor after every X hours of operation as a part of ownership. When I started driving in the 1950s, a smart driver changed his engine oil every 3,000 miles and got it up on the lube rack for greasing what felt like 55 zerks. In the future, every moving part in cars needs to have a known MTBF, including usage tracking for those moving parts in the internal system software. To alert for R/R attention as needed. I bet a smart person will look at the body frame of the i3 and it’s weather ’skin’ snap on panels and work out quite complex styling changes sold as a finished snap on sets in what ever color or design you like. With software and solid state battery packs the collector upside I think will be immense. I wonder what battery design in another ten years will be able to fit into the space a 120 AH takes up now and what it will weigh.

[@toptobottom247]

The conversation at (32:00) is wrong information. The people who love electric cars never asked for weird looking cyber cars that look different from other cars. The badging was all that was needed. It was Japanese designers that made that mistake. Everyone else just followed.

[@continental_drift]

I agree, it is a weird assumption to make. Hopefully auto-makers are getting over that stupid idea.

[@KillroyX99]

I would agree that is a gross generalization. Go to Japan today and you will see why Toyota styling is so weird in the US.

[@brucec43]

They feel buyers want to signal their social virtue to others and would be mad if their car looked normal.

[@Elaba_]

I guess they designed it that way so people that wanted to make a statement would buy them. The Prius is still ugly but now they used the technique in their boring cars too.

[@cytrynowy_melon6604]

No those cars had intentional weird styling so market would not become too large, cannibalizing their ICE models sales.

[@Photomonon]

I think its a good looking car! Better looking than most on the road! Possibly right up there with the sophistication of high luxury.

[@metaljew4456]

This is mind blowing

[@adampoll4977]

I clicked on this thinking it was going to be a tear-down. Then I saw it was a talk-fest and thought "oh no!" Then I was thoroughly engaged for an hour! Such an informative guy.

[@A1DJPaul]

thanks Very interesting info.

[@Nicholas-f5]

Morocco: likely the textile interior, dash :)

[@AndyMiron]

He’s talking it like they’ve got ahold of na alien craft 🛸 😁

[@rimtasvilnietis2991]

Actually people talk bmw collaborated with aliens

[@JonOW98118]

That's my kind of information. There's really just two that share the watershed reference: the BMW i3 without the range extender & the Tesla Model S. I (and about a million other people) would love to see a teardown of the Tesla. Wink. wink. I'm in the market to go electric and the Model S 70 D is the most contented car for the money they have a ever produced making it quite a bargain for the long run. Or for half the money there's the i3. Problem is it's half the car, I don't commute, and I love to travel long distances, so for me the choice is clear. Either way, 20 years from now, when it's all Carbon/Aluminium Electric we will look back and remember those were the two that changed it all.

[@KillroyX99]

Munro has said in a recent video that they have not done a tear-downs on Tesla Model S or the Tesla Model X because they are "low volume". Yet the Model S almost sold 5 times as many cars in the US in 2017 as the BMW i3 and the Model X sold over 3 times as many in the US in 2017.

[@electrictroy2010]

The i3 with backup 2-cylinder engine is a necessity for many of us.

[@davidwilkie9551]

Bit of ancient history, not just the participants, it's newly old technology now.

[@finnurth]

BMW had this amazing team of engineers that were "all in" developing and creating this innovative product. Then the team lost all support within the company and most, if not all, of the engineers are now working for Chinese EV companies. Way to go BMW, Tesla is now light years ahead of you!

[@rogerhudson2814]

The X4 proves there was a boardroom coup back to the blob

[@rimtasvilnietis2991]

Bmw is back on track it fired old ceo

[@mcplutt]

@ 38:48 "I've forgotten his name.. Elon Musk" :-)

[@DM-dq1mh]

Very interesting video, it would be interesting to revisit this now in 2023 ( as production as / is ending ) and see how the manufacturing process impacted the current industry or did it remain an outlier 😀

[@bradcomis1066]

So fascinating, damn!

[@toptobottom247]

Update: BMW cancelled the i5 so the Toyota venture didn't happen on that project.

[@RechargeableLithium]

BMW was one of the companies that licensed the Rocky Mountain Institute's Hypercar work. This is a "Reinventing Fire" car! www.rmi.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/RMI_Supercars_Coming_Light_Vehicle_Revolution_1993.pdf www.autoblog.com/2007/01/05/a-short-history-of-the-rmi-hypercar-ultralight-vehicle-concept/ Speaking as an EVer, I actually do not want a car that looks like a Transformer (Prius) or a catfish (Gen 1 LEAF). I loved the quirkiness of my smart EV, and also love my Outlander PHEV. My 'perfect' car would be a B4 VW Passat station wagon/estate with Mitsubishi's two motor 4WD system in the Outlander and the battery from a Bolt. Extra credit for making it out of carbon fiber and using RMI's hypercar rules!

[@Stefan_Dahn]

38:13 Sandy: "Tesla...ehh...I forgotten his name." Gary: "Elon Musk". I guess, Sandy underestimated Tesla and Elon Musk a bit at that time.

[@wreckage-vs5jv]

AFAIK BMW is not behind all the drivetrain tech, instead they hired a London based engineering firm. There is an pdf from them describing the generator and everything in detail.

[@Suprakid23]

Very good show

[@zadeoooo]

I like this guy a lot. Great interview, but at the end of the day the i3 isn't making BMW any profit. But later on their r&d will likely pay off

[@59seank]

Three years later I hear very little about carbon fiber vehicles.

[@brendanpeery2655]

Good show.

[@rossnoble7956]

Welding extruded aluminum to cast aluminum suspension piece shown here at around 9 minutes in: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppKYkKermd50fJo

[@JMRestini]

Calling an i3 "the Model T of our time" nowadays sounds like a hell of a stretch

[@enoughofthis]

The fact is, this is the most expensive sub 100 miles EV, so what benefits do these techs bring?

[@electrictroy2010]

That’s why you buy the hybrid version, so when the EV battery runs out, you can continue running on gasoline. ALSO truth is most people commute less than 25 miles per day, so they will not need to burn any gasoline .

[@jameshoffman552]

Elder pier - Not much. Since then Tesla is making CyberTruck from stainless steel, and die cast molding of ModelY body sections; all while leading on efficiency.

[@donswier]

Frankly, would still prefer a 100 mile EV + limitless range extender over a 500 mile BEV. It's freeing to never be held hostage to public charging while travelling (although always a happy option if time & opportunity arises).

[@SkywalkerWroc]

Remarkable. Had no idea how amazing work BMW did with this car. Shame that it looks ugly... though to be fair - it looks better in real life than it looks on photos, but still... damn... this could be like the global best-seller if not the looks. "They're so advanced it isn't even funny" wow... and people think Tesla is ahead when in reality the only things they have remaining is nice design and bigger batteries.

[@davidwilkie9551]

What you do is tell those talented Farmers who engineer all day every day that they can have a working holiday with Sandy. It's the only way to get them unstuck from the farm, and they will probably de-stress on the job and want to stay doing something that actually pays.

[@Mrbfgray]

Last caller thought he was clever but his question had been answered in the vid already. PAY ATTENTION before asking stupid questions.

[@swavye]

I dont know what they are talking about with the gas engine being loud or rough. I cant even tell when its running.

[@JP-sw5ho]

Omg at 38:25 this must be the final time anyone ever forgot Elon Musk's name

[@stevewalsh-balshaw1727]

The best ev out there

[@ibelieveinliberty5226]

Terrible video production. At 19:00 he's discussing something very technical and ground breaking and you have terrible music playing over him.

[@egonolzen4720]

Very interesting

[@jordanschultz2232]

The watershed moment.. before the next watershed

[@marcschouten3527]

By Model T is he referring to Tucker?

[@gtibruce]

What about body work damage ? Would it not present a lot problems in the body shops. Well, the outer panels are bolt or glued on. But what about the damage to the inner panels to the point the car may not steer true.? You just write it off!

[@ronnyskaar3737]

The car is really handsome. Don't kidd yourselves 😂

[@maitlandmoore6426]

Hemp fiber before its turned to carbon is cheaper and just as strong , for this application .

[@RetroAndMore89]

Somehow it's an awful thing this company does. A company invests millions to create a unique car line, these guys rip it and sell the details as do-it-yourself manuals. Chinese automakers will love them for sure.

[@calholli]

Later he would find these giant die casts inside the Model Y and lose his mind over it. lol

[@enoughofthis]

Leaf or model 3 are more like model T, cheap, inexpensive mass market and usable/practical

[@rimtasvilnietis2991]

Bmw i3 future collectible car 100 k usd in future

[@jameshoffman552]

Can’t wait to see Sandy’s tear down of the Model Y.

[@jasonjohnson4592]

Isn't using hemp fiber better than carbon fiber ?

[@electrictroy2010]

No because carbon fiber hardens when cooked. Hemp does not .

[@electrictroy2010]

You would understand the difference if you weren’t High all the time .

[@Stefan_Dahn]

5:20 Sandy was wrong and right about BMW. Feb. 2023: Tesla produced over 2,000,000 EVs. BMW sitting on their hands since 2015. For the low volume i3 it worked. And now (2023) they just have only ICEs converted to EVs.

[@cinebenjamin]

That die casting comment really aged well here. hahaha.

[@willdarling1]

yes it's woven.... jeez, some people cant even be corrected

[@arseliopereira2541]

So just exactly what has BMW done lately? Apparently they still think it's too early to go all electric. So what happened?

[@enoughofthis]

All these techs and know how was not able to make a good looking car!

[@RayNLA]

“Model T of our time” -Elon passed his beer

[@carholic-sz3qv]

Yes it is the model T of our time! The bmw i3 when it came out had waaaay too many innovations, from carbon fiber body to the big castings to the use of recycled plastics and fibers, leather tanned with natural products……

[@loctite222ms]

Model T of our time? The BMW I3? Hardly. Someone has no understanding of history or the impact of the model T. The ford Model T was an affordable car. The BMW i3 is about the most expensive in its' class. Sure there are interesting thing about the i3, but comparing it to the Model T is stupid.

[@GreatistheWorld]

The Model T was significant because of its production system, which not only revolutionized industry but was able to deliver such high production numbers, enabling offering them at that low cost. The sea change in the production system is what Munro is referring to.

[@loctite222ms]

Will Pierce I get that. I still disagree with him.

[@brucec43]

Ironically people in the car media rarely actually buy and use good cars. They drive beaters and test cars or plain vanilla appliances. They would never lay their own cash down on this dog.

[@davidporowski9512]

loctite222ms That's called "marketing hype" ( or chutzpah, if you like )

[@davidporowski9512]

loctite222ms Recall the VW making use of a unibody pan, No good reason to make unibody floorpans of. steel when carbon fiber can use resins to reinforce ribs that stiffen those floorpans; Recycling can be achieved with chippers that reduce matter into small chunks, which can be molded back into bumpers, engine blocks, and engineered struts. Weight is reduced, while strength is enhanced. Stiffer floorpans add rigidity, add impervious- ness to road salts & corrosion, and enhance handling & suspension, & road safety; ALL Desirable in automobiles. Those Model "T" Fords with wooden frames are gone. No more worry about termites or carpenter bees.

[@nickayivor8432]

Brilliant video 👍 🙏 interview ScannerDanner, my mentor Sir ScannerDanner Questions time Why only 3% per cent female Techs In the automotive industry Questions time Why are Techs leaving the automotive industry Why??????????????? From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 22:14PM GOOD EVENING EVERYONE IN 🇺🇸 AND AROUND THE 🌎

[@Skyking6976]

Are you kidding? How awesome was that? I wish there was less BS and more about the car. We’ve been looking over a month for one. They ended US deliveries in July so… Interesting comment about the REX. I’m not sure if he was condemning it purely from an engineering standpoint or it will have problems. However, the comment about the car being essentially unsafe on just the REX didn’t know it can be coded to come on like the European delivery where the REX can come on below 75% battery and you won’t have those issues. It makes driving long distances a breeze BUT it was built for commuting.

[@FranklySpeaking73]

Sandy wasn't condemning the Rex, just saying they could have done better. He thought it was loud, but it is not

[@Skyking6976]

@@FranklySpeaking73 I ended up with a 2021 straight EV on lease last September. Could not be happier with the car.

[@macberry4048]

What is a tin banger or a another version I've heard is a tin knocker

[@swanvictor887]

I never knew Bill Gates used to do a motor show.....! How's that 'Model T' doing these days? lol.

[@abz124816]

Between them they have maybe 11 years of education.

[@vyrnmn]

+abz124816 I know you're trying to be funny, but I'm sorry to say you've failed at that. If you'd watched this video you'd have noted that Mr Munro talked about the time he was working alongside BMW during their ownership of Rover. BMW sold Rover in 2000, so 16 years ago.

[@abz124816]

+James Franklin I did not mean to offend you. You sound like a university graduate. My comment was about the interviewers. Rover is a mistake on wheels :)

[@electrictroy2010]

The interviewers also have decades experience having WORKED inside auto factories before transitioning to journalism .

[@jmatthewssmith]

dinos talking about there relatives who are gas.Sparky, the future is powered.

[@brucec43]

Yes, the $60,000 econobox that is ass ugly is a watershed.

[@rimtasvilnietis2991]

Diesel truck lover?

[@krrk6337]

i3 > Model3

[@dlwatib]

Not!

[@electrictroy2010]

The body of the Model 3 looks like it was designed by a man who never designed an auto body before. Horrible design decisions that make no sense..... ultimately Elon fires that designer.” - Sandy Munro after Model 3?teardown .