Tech Talk 16: 1st Order Crossovers

[@sveneisenhauer1]

Danny, your videos are of 1st order! And I say that without a filter! 🤓

[@mfr58]

I find this amazing, as KEF are world renowned for their technical prowess in speaker design and innovation, yet Danny can simplify the crossover to half the part count and get a better result. The cheap parts obviously reflect commercial constraints, but given that they only needed half as many, the quality could have been improved for the same cost....

[@securityvlogger6825]

Really appreciate your making this information so consumable.

[@anpier926]

Thank You. Each video is a master class.

[@securityvlogger6825]

I just listen to this one again because that’s frankly how I learn technical data I have to hear it about 20 damn times cause I’m stupid. Just wanted to say thank you again it really make this stuff understandable

[@scottmichaels1764]

You aren't stupid if you don't retain this after one view. This is complex stuff for anyone without electrical engineering knowledge.

[@midmodaudio6576]

Very informative video. Thank you

[@dpax1537]

great teacher!!!!

[@edjackson4389]

0:06 Nice hair, I had something similiar back in the early 90's haha. Hey, this is a little off topic from the video, but should I change the sand cast resistors in my old JBL L100s? I've already upgraded the capacitors, but I left the resistors since they tested out good in their rated range. If yes would mills be a good choice?

[@dannyrichie9743]

It won't hurt and you may gain some clarity.

[@HPMIKE55]

@GR-Research great job & can you put output to a powered speaker? I have the Swan M300

[@kdomster9141]

Danny , is the route of designing and building the drivers to be very well matched first (woofer and tweeter) so 1 st order crossover with single cap for tweeter and single inductor for woofer with use of highest quality cap and inductor a best way to allow the speaker to have cleanest and highest resolution pass thru without all extra parts coloration out of signal path? B&W did it with their mini monitors like 685s2 or 686s2 . Very few manufacturers have ability to design and build their own woofers and tweeters and B&W does along with their own R&D labs , do you agree with thier strategy listed above .... ? I have their 686s2 and have replaced their stock crossover with single high quality cap and inductor for woofer with foil copper one of same mH value both wired point to point ....after break in these speakers pass a lot of details and micro level acoustic harmonics with huge soundstage....

[@maxb.simonsen2459]

In reality woofers and tweeter are essentially all garbage. Therefore most pairings of any woofer and tweeter needs more than a 1st order crossover to prevent them from playing in their unlinear areas. In your exampel, yes its possible to find a tweeter that matches a woofer, so that they can be set together with only a 1st order crossover, but that isnt to say this is where they sound best. Also every component is coloured, including drivers, and most is not particulary linear a whole lot. Therefore more components in the signal path can easily sound better than fewer. Fewer doesnt mean necessarily better in that way. Usually the best pairing between drivers doesnt give the best price to performance ratio, because you can pair drivers more easy with a more complicated crossover network. Hope that makes any sense to you. But yes you would always pair drivers first, but a driver has so many parameters that best pairing maybe doesnt mean the simplest crossover network

[@kdomster9141]

@@maxb.simonsen2459 Thanks, how about aspect of extra crossover parts (even those with high quality) creating signal path interference and influance on the signal purity ? So isn't fixing response flatness or other issues with more extra parts creating more side effects and signal influence... so is there such thing as over complicated crossover design with too many (often 20+ parts) of crappy quality creating more issues than fixing and glaring the sound resolution with poor sonic character of too many non audio grade parts? I think these issues are related.

[@penangtv6108]

This is a question GR is very interested in avoiding unsurprisingly as they sell crossovers basically. Very little is said about cone material, magnet size, sensitivity, dimensions when GR talks about speakers . Apparently any problem can be solved by norez & better components & measurements. But I think we should be focusing more on tweaking sound to our personal tastes rather then chasing linear measurements or conforming to others opinion. Hifi is about enjoyment at the end of the day. Personally I have upgraded my Nakamichi Sound Space 11 speakers to neodymium with metal cones. Hifi can be as simple or as complex as we want it. We should tinker, change & try different cone materials to see if it's good. No one size fits all. 😊

[@scottlowell493]

John Dunlavy made large SCIV and SCVI speakers. Despite the complexity and cost, he used first order to the tweeter and as a result, a lot of customers blew tweeters.

[@Rene_Christensen]

If you add notch filters it is no longer a first order filter, by definition. But it may have a slope that resembles that of a first order filter in a certain range, while counting the poles will obviously reveal that it is indeed a higher order filter.

[@geoffreywelsby7434]

This is fascinating. Hope you could do a test on Russell k red 50s speakers. See what you think..

[@simonlinser8286]

is designing crossovers basically founded in math? like do we need to know what frequencies were dealing with, what the drivers are going to do with those signals, and split them up accordingly?

[@audio_acoustic_engineering]

Danny, do you measure a drivers response with no filter first? You must use a swept sine without the low frequency to avoid excursion damage. I assume so, just asking. Thank you sir!

[@paulsebring6930]

You can't build a theoretical crossover based purely on the electrical parameters of the crossover components for two important reasons: 1) real passive crossover capacitors and inductors are not pure capacitors and inductors and 2) real speakers are not pure resistance, real speakers are complex impedance that loads the real crossover filter. You can't build a real passive crossover filter without considering the complex impedance of the real load that you are driving. You can't build a passive or active crossover filter without considering the natural acoustic, electrical impedance, and phase response of the speaker. What is the real electrical difference between a junk capacitor or inductor and your high quality capacitor or inductor?

[@rapfreak7797]

Doesn’t all boil down to matching the electrical filter to the acoustical response? Different center frequency, different order, different type.

[@tsope1]

couldn't agree more, the electrical properties of a driver only tell half the story. the acoustic properties have to be measured. that is why i love active crossovers. best thing about an active cross is that after you tune the speaker for a flat response you can sit in front of the speakers and keep fiddling until it sounds good for you, yes, it is much more expensive that way but, it's the best way, as long as you have a good ear for detail.

[@seedood]

Awesome. Thanks !

[@michaelharrington4911]

You know your business

[@rcdude86]

Do you have a book on all this? I am electronics nerd and would love to play and learn and tweak my klipsch rf5’s just for fun!!! What a wealth of great info!!! Thank you for sharing!

[@-IE_it_yourself]

looin' shaved!!

[@shodan6401]

That peak at 15k looks awful. Never liked those Kefs....