It's not about the VRAM!

[@mikedonalds]

In the elitist sphere of PC gaming, it's either maximum settings or nothing. Once in a blue moon when there are no new releases to cover, tech channels do their token videos on how lower settings can still look good, and then when the new hardware releases come along, they carry on pretending that anything less than ultra settings isn't worth getting out of bed for. Back in the real world, we just turn the textures down a bit and live without VRAM-heavy things like ray tracing, and then we enjoy playing the damn game because we didn't buy our gaming PCs to run art exhibitions in our own homes.

[@TechDweeb]

Dang dude. That it so well said. You win the "first comment ever pinned by TechDweeb" award. 🏆

[@Dingbat1967]

Top comment right here. Also, clickbait. It's a good clickbait to dunk on GPUs because reasons.

[@GuyFromDoom]

So well said! So well said!

[@mikedonalds]

@@TechDweeb I am honoured! Alternative viewpoints are sorely needed. When the Steam hardware survey shows over 90% of gamers don't game on anything more powerful than a 3060 Ti, it's clear that tech channels could really do with tailoring more content to help people get the most out of the hardware they've actually got. I wish you every success, Dweeb.

[@Kujokouklos]

Amen, brother! Excellent said!

[@mikedav178]

giggle bytes?

[@johnerickvs]

hihihi

[@KB-ge4rn]

this was the only comment i was looking for lol lol lol

[@aidanblue1005]

Giggle bites

[@eboskie1]

So annoying.

[@caligolagg268]

its not how big your vram is its how you use it.

[@MarshallRawR]

What's scary is that the norm of "8GB is new minimum" has been set in motion now. I have a feeling it might happen more and more as developers will use that in order to spend less time optimizing. Less and less backlash with time, more and more recommendation for higher VRAM cards. Basically, this will become the new DLSS/FSR that is already the reality. Less optimization, less FPS but hey! Just toggle FSR right?!

[@TechDweeb]

Yeah you're not wrong. Still I think as long as the 1650 has such a hold over PC gaming we'll still see games optimized for 4gb for a while yet. At least games that want to SELL.

[@66kaisersoza]

The 480 had 8gb of vram in 2016 and it wasn't even high end at the time..

[@glucosefructose]

for real

[@bryndal36]

the issue too is that teh big tech reviwers tend to be the ones that say we need the latest and greatest tech to enjoy playing our games. They're just as much to blame as the tech companies for trying to gouge more money out of us.

[@infini_ryu9461]

It's not the new minimum. Given how poorly optimized games in 2023 were, 8gb is not nearly enough on cards that can easily run these games at 1440p 60fps, if only they had more VRAM. If we look at PC ports this is even more pronounced given consoles now have 16gb of shared RAM. The 1080ti has 11gb VRAM, and because of that it still holds up even today. There is no excuse for it come the 40 series. I have a 4090, so I don't need to worry about this, but seeing RE4R crash on any 40 series card at max settings looks depressing as heck given how much people paid for them.

[@firisrozley5768]

The moment they put 12GB VRAM as a minimum requirement to play that PC game is the moment I stopped buying modern PC games & just straight to emulating PS2/GC & Wii/OG Xbox games.

[@66kaisersoza]

Games are becoming more demanding with other features besides rendering and ray tracing. Game physics and other features are being offloaded to the GPU more and more, year on year.

[@masterlee1988]

@@66kaisersoza Yep, so true. 8GB isn't going to last forever for higher res and textures just like how previous VRAM requirements are obsolete(like anything under 4GB and years from now 4GB, 6GB and such won't even be enough to playing new AAA games at all). Same can be applied for cpu cores as forget about playing any game under 4 cores and nowadays 6 cores is the absolute minimum.

[@nonegone7170]

@@masterlee1988 " 4 cores and nowadays 6 cores is the absolute minimum." A quad-core with better single core speed still beats a hexacore with lower single core speeds in gaming. I would've expected better core utilization from developers by now to be fair, seeing how i was already on an octa-core ten years ago.

[@masterlee1988]

@@nonegone7170 That is all true. Even if that's the case, I still wouldn't buy a quad core today for obvious reasons. And now I want 8 cores for my next build.

[@mttrashcan-bg1ro]

@@66kaisersozaCan people like you seriously stop defending this? There is absolutely nothing in any 2023 or 2024 game that justifies them running worse than a game from 2017 or 2018. If you turn Ray Tracing off on these newer games, they look old. Even the latest UE5 games have bland textures, and short draw distances is still an issue.

[@7MBoosted]

I think the real argument is that people who buy cards at $400-$600 expect to max out modern games at 1080p for several years after their purchase. With the 30/40 series cards the limited vram amounts make people really mad that they would have to spend $400-$600 to not even max games out at 1080p. This is the way I feel about the situation, anyway. When I bought my 1070 I played everything at max at 1080p and I bought that card for $360.

[@JaceFalcon]

I bought the 1070 for 180 when it was still new

[@alexarose2996]

u arent maxing shit we have 4k monitors now high and ultra are for those resolution 8gb is shit true but dont expect high or ultra in the future 1080 p card thats not happening diablo 4 runs like dog shit with 8 gb vram at high settings

[@kathrynck]

It's pretty ridiculous to spend $500 on a card and not be able to max 1080p. I spent $800 on 2017 on a card, which could max 1080p, and max or near-max 1440p depending on title. And you kinda expect that 7 years later you'd get more. I'll grant though that even in 4000 series cards, ray tracing remains an enormously over-expensive graphics setting, relative to the eye-candy of it.

[@kurotaL61200]

The market price currently is really good for AMD 6800, at a good range of Vram for future proof.

[@akafede4351]

Your 360$ in 2017 (1070 got launched in june 2016 but yeah, same) according to an inflation calculator equals to 466$ from today's money....

[@IcebergTech]

Good lord, you *bought* Gollum? Talk about taking one for the team!

[@TechDweeb]

They said they'll fix it! I'm sure in like 3 days it'll be GOTY.

[@blacknote6945]

​@@TechDweeb "3 days"

[@leroyjenkins0736]

​@@TechDweeb lmfao

[@thefreemonk6938]

Hey legend!

[@poppasteve2976]

Us old guys remember when a game had to work when you bought it, because it was on a CDrom or DVD and patches were a real pain. Now, games are released in basically an unfinished state, and you get a new patch or update every time you start it. Not cool. Makes everybody frustrated.

[@paulwestphal7336]

I'm an old guy and I agree. Basicly, It's the greed factor.

[@MrDecessus]

@@paulwestphal7336 I'm also an old guy and its not really about greed thought there is plenty of that. The reality is that most games years ago where actually limited by not just the hardware but the software engines, but then came a game all should remember that to run on high needed 2 or even 3 SLI cards. Our favorite and bane of any gamer at the time Crysis. People whine about now but forget that Crysis came out which was graphically extensive and load and behold everyone was playing in low to medium on 21 inch monitors and we where happy. No the problem is gamers like so much of society has become children and think that everything has to be about them and how its not fair. It has never been fair when it comes to gaming, you either spent and had the top hardware that ran the top games or you did not. End of story.

[@d33pakkkk]

I'm an old guy and disagree with one thing in your comment, people today are really not frustrated by the buggy messes that are released in the market today. Fun fact, Cyberpunk is considered the best game by many despite it having a terrible launch - that's what gaming has come to today. People pay full money for something incomplete, patiently wait for Dev's to fix it, and still are respected for delivering something playable even 1-2 years later. These gamers are the problem we don't get good games. And gamers who demand 16gb vram are a problem devs don't optimise their games....it's the spoiled brat generation of gamers who have ruined games.

[@Ethelberd]

​@@d33pakkkk hey buddy, that there's a very rude and judgemental comment you made. I own a 16GB card and I do play games with it. Why do I deserve to be called a spoiled brat when I worked my rear off to pay for it? I never had an allowance, handouts, etc. I pay for things only with the money I already have, never taking loans, credit, pawns, etc. to cover what money I haven't already made. Have you or any of the other people attacking high vram buyers considered many of us buy it to render complex 3D scenes for both hobbies and profit? Some (myself excluded) also require very high vram for video editing. Videogames aren't the only thing vram is useful for. Don't put someone down unless you're willing to help them up.

[@d33pakkkk]

@@Ethelberd but I'm not targetting you, I'm targetting the gamers out there who just blindly buy a new GPU every 1-2 years just because some influencers pushes them to! Products should be designed with customer in mind, we shouldn't design ourselves with the product. Hope you get what I mean. I'm an honest hard working individual too, and I believe this should be a long term investment, and games demanding high vram but having similar looking graphics is insane...

[@ShaneStoneOwl]

“Giggle-Byte”

[@HDAD419]

I just keep praying to gaming god that we don't go beyond 8GB for 1080p gaming in the coming years, it doesn't make sense honestly.

[@66kaisersoza]

GPU's aren't just rendering graphics and ray tracing nowadays. You also have game physics which used to be cpu dependant but now is being offloaded to GPU's. As well as other features.

[@honza9911]

@@stevenanderson3205 exactly you want go away from reality no just play games that reminds it

[@foundcrab4742]

For 2023 games, they tend to use 5-7 gb of vram to play at high settings 1080p. So I dont think the 8gb vram gaming will die any soon, it's all about the optimization of the game

[@honza9911]

@@foundcrab4742 exatcly i bought guardians of the galaxy and it take 6 gigs at max

[@selohcin]

We already have. Hogwarts Legacy can use up to 11GB at 1080p, and so does the Last of Us Part 1.

[@nadiaezzarhouni300]

Optimization plays a big difference between games and esports titles in particular

[@floycewhite6991]

Steam survey says 81.45% use 8 GB or less of VRAM. Only 2.98% of gamers have a video card with more than 12 GB of VRAM. Therefore, 83.94% of the video cards sold that are over 8 GB, are not much above it, such as the RTX 3060 or RX 6700 XT. Please notice that 81.45 and 83.94 are essentially the same number. Gamers who had to get new video cards, laptops, or build new desktops in the last few years -- even those who had a little higher budget to work with -- kept pretty much the same outlook as they had with the computers they used before. Performance and features are great, but price rules.

[@TechDweeb]

Well said

[@BrockObunger]

I think the overall takeaway from this is if you have 8gb vram rn then there is no need to worry. However, if you are upgrading for a gpu worth more than 300 USD, you should definitely be looking for at least 12gb because you obviously want the option to run on the highest settings on a new mid range plus GPU.

[@TechDweeb]

Well said.

[@khalilcruz5816]

Question…I’m planning on playing only cod on 1080p on low settings for more frames so the 8gb will be enough?

[@tomthomas3499]

I still remember Last of Us initial release version running at 1080p fsr quality (which basically at 720p) and it eats up 6-7gb vram 😂, 6gb vram for 720p textures is just absurd, i'm glad they managed to fixed the problem though

[@MORGUEZHR]

Most of the VRAM footprint doesn't come from resolution; it's textures & HUD elements. FSR & DLSS keep the HUD at native resolution while it also adds onto the VRAM footprint for the temporal setup. The game managed to overcome this issue by giving the players the option to allocate quite a bit less on the texture-caching with the expense of slower reaction times (detail pop-ins) whenever you move the camera/approach an area where the textures haven't been loaded. They also did some tweaking to find a sweat-spot when it comes to the precision of its compression & decompression techniques.

[@VndNvwYvvSvv]

Texture size isn't equated to output render/frame resolution. Textures are in powers of 2 like 128x128 or 512x512. They can also be compressed or not. Then you have mip mapping and other techniques to store 1/4 (half each direction) sizes of it for faster processing of textures farther away.

[@voteDC]

Today I discovered that a Gigglebyte is an actual term for an unspecified but stupidly large amount of storage. You learn something new every day. When it comes Hogwarts Legacy I can get a fairly steady 60fps on a Ryzen 3 1300X, GTX 970 (4GB or 3.5GB of vRAM depending on who you ask), and 8GB of RAM on my Media PC. Now to be fair that is with a lot of Low in the settings and use of the Balanced FSR 2.0 preset. The game still looks good though and runs well. People really just need to temper their expectations and their settings to the hardware.

[@Jwhipification]

Thanks for revealing this to me. I've been debating on a gpu because of the vram talk. Seriously thanks man.

[@TechDweeb]

Glad I could help you out!

[@CrashD6]

The point of "we need more vram" is for brand new builds, people getting into PC or people looking to upgrade to a card that offers good value and very little drawbacks, if you already own an 8gb card and you are happy with it, you can always tweak the settings to play the new games and wait for a card with good value that fits your budget in the future

[@zombee38]

Screw unoptimized games if those don't run on my PC with 4GB of VRAM I won't buy any ! 😂 One day perhaps I would upgrade to 8GB but so far I'm happy with it !

[@Loppy2u]

Hundreds of highly rated PC games from 2000-2016 that can run on 4GB -8GB cards.

[@Nathan49k]

Man and people were starting to convince me that my brand new card with 12gb was going to be dead in two years. Saying I should’ve paid $200 more to get a 16gb card that is always sold out where i live lol. Thanks for the video and the peace of mind.

[@TechDweeb]

Don't listen to em. You'll be juuuuuust fine.

[@SianaGearz]

I am surprised this LOTR Gollum game hadn't come out in like 2008. It feels so out of time today, with merely performance issues revealing when it's from.

[@Player_g1]

Every time I hear giggle byte I just melt from the Pleasant discomfort

[@zazoreal5536]

You got a sub. Optimization is the issue 85% of the time if not higher.

[@Rayanaminge]

As someone who had a 1080, and graduated to a 3090, then popped a 980ti into my old system. I’ve discovered that yes, 8gb is pretty much the needed amount these days for high settings, but it’s more than that in my personal testing. It looks like it’s also the bandwidth of that RAM. The biggest issue with the 4060 is that they pulled the bandwidth back hard. The 8gb is fine. You’re correct that there are way too many high profile games coming out that are poorly optimized. A well optimized game can use high bandwidth of 8gb just fine. That RAM isn’t processing the graphics, it’s just holding the data for the GPU itself. If that data is bloated and dirty, 8gb may not be enough, but I really think it’s that bandwidth bottleneck. Good video and I’m glad that more people are willing to call these multi-million dollar games coming out poorly optimized.

[@babelfishdude]

Inconceivable that they dropped from a 192 bit 3060 to 128 bit 4060 (8 or 16 GB, both cards are memory crippled)

[@jonathanellis6097]

Testers use ultra setting to benchmark, so you are showing to maximum potential performance of a product and to make sure you are testing on a level playing field. Most of the testers do say they wouldn't actually play at those settings depending on the hardware and game. It makes sense to test with the same setting to show scaling and the relative performance of each product. Personally I normally set games to medium and then set texture quality to as high as my VRAM will allow, as that normally give great performance along with good image quality.

[@TechDweeb]

I agree. It makes sense to push the hardware hard for the purposes of testing. What I disagree with is when they draw the conclusion that there are these huge VRAM limitations that devalue the product and make games unplayable that actually are totally playable. It's because of reviews like this that the whole "you can't play Last of Us or Hogwarts Legacy on an 8gb gpu!" mentality comes from, people start saying this stuff and trying to convince people that 8gb is literally unplayable. That's why I want to show the real story, these games ARE playable and enjoyable on 8gb GPUs.

[@jonathanellis6097]

@@TechDweeb this disconnect has been a problem for some time. I don't believe it's reviewers fault. They are providing data, and opinions, it's up to the reader or watcher to interpret and assess the data to some extent. The biggest problem is expectations. If you have a graphics card currently with 8gb of VRam then as you have demonstrated just lower settings and enjoy the games, once you are unhappy with the performance then consider an upgrade. Buying a brand new graphics card with 8gb of VRam today I don't believe makes a lot of sense, VRam requirements are only going one way and that's up. I suspect, as do a lot of reviewers that in the next couple of years 8gb will simply not be enough to maintain the performance people expect from the price tier of the cards currently being offered. As you stated inflation is a factor, but consumers can purchase cards with much larger VRam buffers with a bit of shopping around. If you have the choice between a 4060ti and and RX 6800 for a small amount more or a RX 6700/6750 for about the same money, I'd personally go with the AMD offering as it's larger VRam is likely to hold up better over the next couple of years.

[@jonathanellis6097]

I'll also add it's nice to have a rational debate about something even if options differ. Too often it all degenerates into name calling and shouting. And stuff being said about mums!

[@SianaGearz]

How about using settings which give all tested GPUs a fair shot at the game, rather than have it fall off a cliff to where the numbers aren't even directly comparable? Like sure i think higher VRAM requirements will be a thing in the future. That the way 4GB card owners are feeling a bit of a squeeze today where titles run but textures are starting to look a little rough, since you're on the lowest settings. That it's about time this starts happening to 6GB owners next and 4GB ones are left out entirely soon. And then a few years down the road the fate may reach 8GB as well. But then i feel that's a separate thing from performance benchmarking, that's image quality and compatibility issues. Because as long as you fit into the VRAM and have the disk throughput to feed it, your performance really doesn't change one way or another. Even if you choose the lowest texture setting instead of the one that actually fills your VRAM, it doesn't run any faster. Also you're getting into the business of crystal orbing future telling which is known to be spectacularly unreliable one way or another. We know everything we use will be obsolete eventually, but it's hazardous to say where it will be cut short, whether it's VRAM capacity, or feature set capability, or arithmetic throughput, or VRAM read/write throughput, or any weird quirk of any given product. Who knows.

[@pothitoskourtis]

@@TechDweeb most of these "TECH" youtubers created the vram problem.

[@crescentmoon256]

this video will age like 8 gig cards

[@mikkelaagaard240]

Yes not good

[@jose2822]

I think the problem is now due to GaaS, since it doesn't matter if they can launch it before and then they will fix it later, that ends up in the lack of optimization by the developers to meet launch dates by companies that the only thing that what matters is to make a profit (which is totally normal, but it is not justified that it should release a junk product) and also that political ideas are being involved in the industry in part (as much as they want to deny it, the evidence is there)

[@archer201977]

My 3070ti bought last year was a terrible investment but then again, i shouldn't be worried for newer games, either i play it or not the main pupose is to have fun, therefore lowering the settings to high mixed with other medium will be sufficient enough to have an enjoyable experience. I think we are over saturated with games that require more vram but in reality we also need to take account of what we have, and enjoy it until it dies out and we're back to square one shopping for the best gpu that fits to our needs and budget.

[@jackdoobie]

Why must these GPU manufacturers and game developers turn my computer into their personal den of lies?

[@TechDweeb]

It's all about control Jack. They want to control EVERYTHING. We can fight back by stepping away from our computers and existing in the real world. I suggest doing that for at least 5 minutes every day.

[@jackdoobie]

@@TechDweeb Great advice TD, that's why I take the POW-KITTY!!! out for walks into the real world. We need to unwind away from the tech every so often.

[@jackdoobie]

Speaking about getting out, now that the weather's turned and Canada seems to be burning to the ground, do you have any camping trips planned for the season?

[@Dingbat1967]

@@TechDweeb 5 Minutes, that's a challenge man. You are making a very big ask.

[@MoncusB]

I could be ignorant but doesn’t vram requirements scale with resolution? In which case the 8g criticism is valid particularly for gpus aimed at 1440p like the rtx 3070?

[@BastianRosenmüller]

no i have a 8gb 3070ti and play at 4k even with high or ultra textures there is no porblem with that. All games run smooth. The game uses the amount of Vram avaiable and the rest is loaded in when need from you ssd. People who say its not enough only talk bullshit.

[@moncefbkb9353]

@@BastianRosenmüller Loading anything from an SSD is infinitely slower than having them on the VRAM so you will have inconsistent frame timings leading to stuttering, maybe you don't notice them and that's great, but that does not mean they don't exist.

[@BastianRosenmüller]

@@moncefbkb9353 You are right but currently there are no games which need to uilize more then 8gb vram and all games which had those problems like the Last of Us and Hogwards Legacy are fixed now and run perfectly on 8gb cards. Its not about VRAM, mostly it is due to bad optimization and Allocation problems. It is just that were a few games which were badly optimized which led to gamers thinking 8gb is not enough. For example Resident Evil remakes can utilize way more then 8gb and thats why the people think 8gb is not enough. But the texture setting is RE Remakes is just the texture cache size and allowing the game to utilize more Vram doesnt improve the texture quality at all, it just tells how much data is kept in the memory. And even the next gen games like Plaque Tale Requieum dont utilize more then 8gb of VRAM even at 4k. It is just the incomplete technical knowledge of tech youtubers and gamers .

[@moncefbkb9353]

@@BastianRosenmüller Oh i absolutely agree with you that it is partly an optimization problem, I used to play in high cause ultra was never noticeable for me, however now look at Red dead 2 and diablo 4 for example and you'll notice a big difference in max textures vs lower settings so you have no choice other than playing on ultra textures which use a lot of VRAM. On the other hand you have games like the new ratchet and clank, horizon forbidden west or dragons dogma 2 who seem to take a huge amount of vram regardless of the texture settings, which we can attribute to bad optimization i suppose, and those games have shown clear frame time issues and get lower fps with 8gb cards compared to 12gb variants. I do think that pushing for higher vram could hurt the entry level consumer and that game devs are at fault but you gotta remember that : 1. VRAM is actually cheap, nvidia is just greedy and wants you to buy the most expensive cards. So in theory even entry level cards could get 12gb easy. 2. 4070 with 8 gb is a joke. 3. Pushing for optimization sadly has never worked before and will never work, so i'd rather be safe and get more VRAM especially knowing that it's cheap for manufacturers to get rather than risk encountering a non optimized game and wait for months for it to maybe be fixed.

[@BastianRosenmüller]

@@moncefbkb9353 ohh ok didnt know that there are already games where 8gb cards struggle. Yeah i have to agree with you absolutely. When you compare it to AMD Cards its hilarious that even entry amd cards got 12-16gb VRam and my 3070ti which is definitely not entry level has only 8gb. Its a shame. At least i didnt experience any problems with it until now except for RE Remakes confusing texture settings. I went with the Nvidia Rtx 3070ti back then because of the "better" features the card had in comparisson to AMD. For example DSLL is so much better then amds counterpart. But maybe in next time when buying new releases i will have disadvantage against those who bought the amd rx 6800xt with 16 gb VRAM

[@Kujokouklos]

And........ this is the reason why "tech" Tubers with 500K+ subs get only 8000 views in each of their videos after A WEEK! People have had enough. Hey man, nail to the head, excellent - excellent video! 👍👍👍👍

[@darthwiizius]

Basically medium generally has started having as much geometry and detail as high had 2 or 3 years ago (cough Cyberbug cough). All being on a (now) lower tier card means is once the game has been optimised correctly you're restricted to image quality that used to be maxed out settings but now there are settings with even more detail most of which you won't notice in motion, great for pixel counters and benchmarkers but make no difference to the gaming experience in the vast majority of cases. Oh and obsolete? So for the half a dozen (if that) AAA boredom simulators that are releasing each year they will increasingly struggle as time goes on but you have a library of games stretching decades your "obsolete" card can run like an absolute beast, old stuff at 4K, less old stuff at 1440P and recent and new stuff at 1080P. The mugs are the people who obsess about maxing out everything, they spend more time benchmarking than playing and more money on the hardware than the games.

[@saschapurner9579]

I have three PC´s here at my Home. For a long time i study this PC think way ago from gaming and youtube and can say, EVERTHING is just a question of attitude. ;-) Do never care about what you have, just care about, what you can do with it. :-)

[@Rhadoo89]

What's the display resolution? If you're at 1080p or 1440p, it's understandable. But for 4K, 16GB is a minimum for optimal performance. I did a test myself on Forza Horizon 5, on an RTX 2080 Super 8GB VRAM, switching from 1440p to 4K, I instantly got a message saying it's running out of VRAM.

[@BastianRosenmüller]

your talking complete shit honestly. You just have to tweek settings i play also on a 8gb card at 4k and their is not problem with that. And even when games say you need more vram , you dont. in Resident Evil 4 remake the game tells me that i run out of vram 13gb/8gb but the game runs perfectly anyways. A game uses the vram that you have avaiable. If you have a fast SSD there is no issue with that. The only thing that will be different is that you may have more texture pop in or longer texture loading .

[@patrickstar3820]

​@@BastianRosenmüllerno, they're speaking the truth. Some games allow you to play while passing the VRAM limit by lowering settings automatically. Some games crash because of it and some games swap vram with ram, which hits FPS. The reality of the matter is that 8GB VRAM at 4K won't cut it by the end of next year. Which is why people are complaining. As gpus evolve, so should Price to performance. Nvidia are selling a 4060ti with only 8GBS of VRAM.

[@BastianRosenmüller]

@@patrickstar3820 Tripple A games or games which use that much VRAm are shit anyways. Just lower the settings there is no problem with that

[@BastianRosenmüller]

@@patrickstar3820 you dont understand, games use the amount of vram avaiable. When you have 16gigs of Vram , your game will use that 16 gb, when you have 8gb your game will use it. There is not a single game out there which requires more then 8gb of vram , all games run perfectly on those cards. You just sometimes have to adjust Texture settings. And you wont even notice a decrease in graphic fidelity. Tripple A games with super duper high end graphics are shit games anyways

[@pf100andahalf]

The way you say "gig-O-bytes" is hilarious.

[@sudoGL]

This video saved my RX 7600 OC from being replaced by an RX 6800 XT. Thank you!

[@chriscastillo291]

You're right, but the problem is that you cant enjoy when a game comes out or that let alone weve moved from 4gb to 6gb to 8gb its that you want to future proof your buy! Games are gonna start using more v ram thats what they mean!

[@TuriGamer]

I used to think no gpu would ever need 12gb vram until I started getting into AI and high resolution textures

[@purnenduray1130]

I was confused between rtx3060ti and rx6700xt ,they both cost same and performs same (amd being a bit faster in raw performance) , i went with rx6700xt only bc extra vram seemed like more futureproofing at 1440p . Do u think I've chosen poorly?

[@TechDweeb]

That was a solid choice. The main downside to the 6700xt is that you need a more powerful power supply, if your PSU can handle it then you're good. The 6700xt is actually sorta between the 3060 ti and the 3070, and the vram definitely makes it worth it.

[@purnenduray1130]

@@TechDweeb thanks 🙏 yeah I'm getting 650w cm bronze v2. I'm just worried about missing the dlss2 nd rt 🥲.

[@danatmonst3594]

Guess my 1 Gig-OL-Byte gpu wont cut it anymore then. At least now I know that 8 will do me fine, thanks! I subbed just coz you said "thanks for clicking on the video" and making me feel special.🥰

[@mrfawkes9110]

At what resolution though? If you never play above 1080p then 8 will cover you in nearly every circumstance for a while yet, you could probably get away with 4-6. 1440 is a crapshoot with 8, but I've had nothing but headroom on my 6700XT's 12g. I'm sure 12g can do most games up to 4K. You definitely aren't wrong about the optimization, nothing comes out with any kind of optimization anymore. I've grown very tired of paying $60 for what is essentially a beta release.

[@Araick]

I played Uncharted with my 3070 without any issue.But I cap the fps at 100 because it is enough for me. I hava a question too, what is the spec of the pc you use for the benchmark?

[@TechDweeb]

Oh good point - I'll put the PC specs in the description.

[@Araick]

@@TechDweeb So you swap it with you're 4070 ti if I understand right. The 5950x is a beast of a cpu no wonder it worked so well, you should try with a more basic cpu like a I-5 or a Ryzen 5 or 3. But it end,this video is a good starting point.

[@LilMissMurder3409]

Thank you for this video - it's evaporated so much of the FUD I'm dealing with rn having to choose between a 12GB 3060 and an 8GB 4060. 4060 it is!

[@SianaGearz]

Problem is this choice, regardless of which choice you make, is based on your prediction of the future, since presumably you want to keep enjoying that GPU for a number of years to come. But we can't predict the future :( Still i just got myself an 8GB card (just a 2060 Super nothing really fancy; but fit my budget of 160€ with room to spare) and i'm feeling reasonably good about it for the time being. I mean i could have panicked and pushed for 3060/12GB and would have for sure gotten a much better GPU in the process, but well money do be what it is! Also uh let me say i'm unhappy with the quality of the 4060 benchmarks we got from major outlets. I want to see more raytracing benchmarks because that's going to be more relevant in the future, i BET. You can't like.... set everything on Ultra but not enable raytracing what kind of an off kilter useless benchmark is that FFS? And they got to conclusion "do not buy, it's basically same speed as 3060" but is it though?

[@LilMissMurder3409]

@@SianaGearz I've decided to save up for another month and get a 4070. I just want something that will give me hassle-free performance at 1440p for the next 5 years or so.

[@okokayy]

everytime u say gigglebyte my heart smiles

[@hezoslife5250]

lmao same

[@TechDweeb]

Lotsa smiles in this video then :)

[@snakeplissken111]

I'm gonna put it that way: New 8GB cards for 300-400 bucks in 2025 would be a no-go. For entry level budget Arc Battlemage, it may still be fine. However, spending several hundred bucks on a 2025 GPU to turn down settings for 2021/2022/2023 games, that'd be a bit of a stretch. All you need to know is to look at GPUs released in 2016: Entry-level to midrange cards such as the RX 480 and GTX 1060 shipped with 6-8GB already. More importantly, the demand has gone up since. And still does. Adjusting historical prices 1:1 for inflation is doing company PR work for free, by the way. If every component had seen similar price hikes (they didn't), tech channels wouldn't have much of an audience anymore.

[@XioC652]

this is the most reasonable video i've ever seen with regards to hardware. and thanks for the shoutout to digital foundry. I run a GTX 1660 super (6gb model) and I can play most games at native 1080p medium settings with a 60fps lock. and this is an old card and STILL delivers the goods. I have an AMD RX 6900xt also, but I use it for 4k gaming on ultra settings and that's a whole different level of performance you're paying for.

[@Dingbat1967]

The big tech youtubers are talking mainly to hardcore gamers who like to build "money is no object" machines, it feels like. Funnily enough, the GTX 1650 is still the top GPU used on the steam charts. So either the tech youtubers are right or the consumers are saying something totally different. To be honest, if a game can't run on a modern GPU 6 or 8GB VRAM, I just won't play the damn game. I still think you should do a blind test with some Dweebles to see if they can tell the difference between medium, high and ultra.

[@jeffrybassett7374]

I agree but I feel the need to point out one thing. The Steam survey tilts so heavily towards the 1650 because it (the survey) includes millions of so called "third world" players who can afford only the most basic computers.

[@Dingbat1967]

@@jeffrybassett7374 What are you implying here? Third world players don't count? The same Steam Survey shows that the first instance of AMD appearing is because of their APUs which seems to bear that out. But gamers are gamers.

[@jeffrybassett7374]

@@Dingbat1967 I'm not implying anything and I'm not disparaging anyone. I'm pointing out that is not the audience that youtubers are posting for. They know that most of the people running with a 1650 aren't going to be watching their videos. Like all authors, they write for their perceived audience.

[@simon89oi]

any non blind person can tell a difference between high medium and ultra TEXTURES , most gamers have a 1650 ? but most of these gamers play games like csgo dota and lol valorant , games that are literally playable on an integrated gpu .

[@tjmfzr]

It's all about the game consoles. Until new consoles are released, the new requirements for most games will be somewhere between 8-12GB at most.

[@grecugabriel9217]

Do u suggest buying a more expensive rtx 3070ti 8gb over a much cheaper rtx 3060 12g? And play TLOU on high settings instead ultra.

[@TechDweeb]

Nah, I'd go for the 3060. The 3070 ti will give you some better performance, but it won't be night and day difference, and if the 3060 is substantially cheaper that'd be my choice.

[@66kaisersoza]

MLID spoke about this recently. Games development takes roughly 3 - 6 years to make. 6 years ago the top tier card was the 1080ti which had 11gb of vram.. Game developers assume that 6 years later 11gb vram will be the AVERAGE amount of vram at best! Once their game is completed They couldn't predict that gpus are coming out today with 8gb..

[@terraincognitagaming]

But the Last of us PC Port developer proved that it wasnt about "vram" but rather them being lazy as they managed to reduce the VRAM usage by like 2GB and at the same time MASSIVELY improve the quality of the medium textures.

[@Movierecap998]

Thats not how it works they when they update or add new feature they increase the minimum requirements

[@0xFdeadc0de]

1080p + Anti Aliasing + Medium Settings @ 60FPS does not need two dozen teraflops or 16 GB VRAM.

[@theneokenshin]

they should have said 6 gb vram is not enough, which is maybe more factual if you think about it

[@Jakiyyyyy]

Yeah 8GB is still something but 6GB is kinda like hit and miss. In some games it's enough with 6GB.

[@invisibleevidence1970]

6gb should always be enough for medium settings

[@melodiasrojas8428]

@@Jakiyyyyy im playing with my gtx 1660 super 6gb playing ghost of sushima

[@TipsOnTheFly]

I have a problem with this though. my windows install, due to configurations and software I use for production, is constantly using vram and about 2gb min at that, my 3070 was crashing or stuttering a lot with a few games because of that. having a clean install optimized just for gaming does not showcase what most users will experience.

[@TechDweeb]

Ah yeah that's true. For production work or professional applications you'll definitely need the vram.

[@whitehorsept]

I get your point, and it is correct that games need to be better optimised at launch. I do find your video useful for most people still, as steam stats shows most players still have Full HD screens. But Full HD is on the way out and not a small amount of people are already playing at higher resolutions. So as you briefly mentioned, at higher resolutions you need more VRAM and from experience i can say that when playing at 4K in a projector you will also want to enable higher texture quality otherwise they will lack detail and defeat the point of playing 4K. The marketing of the latest cards is also responsible for the players expectations and demands. In the RTX3000 series the marketing was pushing a lot the idea that the cards were 4K gaming cards. Strangely now, the 4000 series seems to be marketed for FullHD instead. And then there is Ray Tracing . It is being marketed heavily and it is beautiful, and it is clearly being used as a selling point. But enabling such feature will also demand more VRAM. So all in all, I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for more VRAM than the cards from half a decade ago for people that are looking to invest on a card for the next 5 years again. (I have a RTX2080 which has 8GB). Do I have a point also? :) Let me know what you think.

[@jonathanellis6097]

Correct. Nvida market ray tracing on a card that's not able to actually use it effectively in new titles because of a lack of VRAM. These are not cheep cards they should have been equipped with more than 8gb of VRam.

[@masterlee1988]

whitehorsept I agree with all of your points on this.

[@whitehorsept]

We now have a direct comparison of the same card , 8 vs 16 gb vram. The results confirm what both of us say. Some games it makes no difference. But as soon as you try to use more vram, with longer play sessions, ray tracing, etc... It's clear. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJC8ZHhsaJalpZo

[@masterlee1988]

@@whitehorsept TBH the 8GB version of the 4060 Ti shouldn't really had been made.

[@mrman6035]

I don't think 1080p will ever die. While everyone fights over high or max settings budget gamers will be more than happy playing at 60fps at medium or low settings.

[@nabhussad]

Good points but I have to disagree the console are the standard for game which has 16gb ram, then the games are ported to pc

[@66kaisersoza]

That 16gb vram is shared with the OS. Games can use up to 13.5 max

[@2Ditsame]

Bro I just came across your channel, and really enjoyed a couple of your videos! I'd like to know your opinion on a situation I'm rn. I'm rocking a 2060 6gb, and want to upgrade my gpu...I was looking for a 4060ti 8gb, but after such negative opinions online, I'm second guessing myself. What are your thoughts on this GPU? I'm leaning towards the 4060ti, cuz the Power consumption is low, and I'm not really in the mood to change my 500w psu rn LOL (otherwise I would go for an amd card). Since I'm on a budget aswell, the 16gb variation doesn't quite fit my budget.. Do you think the 4060ti 8gb, can have a solid 1080p gaming experience 60fps, for the next 3/4 years?

[@TechDweeb]

I think you will be just fine with a 4060 ti. The negative sentiment towards this GPU is based on its performance compared to the previous generation. Which is fair, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad card. It will 100% handle 1080p 60fps gaming for the next few years. And you will get access to the 40 series tech like DLSS 3. It will be a massive upgrade compared to your 2060.

[@2Ditsame]

@@TechDweeb Thank you very much man, keep up your amazing videos!

[@jiggle_counter]

Unless you're knee deep in VRAM, jack every graphical setting to Ultra settings, only touching the hungriest VRAM eaters like Textures, Reflections, Tessellation, Shadows, and more recently Ray Tracing But I guess that's the arguement being made, "I don't WANT to tamper and test, I just want Ultra preset! I bought the game, I want to use ALL the game!"

[@The_one_that_got_away]

Yeah it makes sense, it costs nvidia 30$ to add 2 gigs and it IS needed in 1440p. The issue is the GPU is capable of performing 60+ fps with X but due to its vram, has to settle for LESS than X

[@aso6437]

Hit the nail on the head with this one.. GG's Bro.

[@floralpoboop]

I honestly believe these big name reviewers like linus tech tips, hardware unboxed, jay2cent, and much much more have not been honest for a long time. I don't call their "reviews" as reviews because just a a glance you can see if their sponsor doesn't pay them well enough they still do it but they either treat them like pure trash for not paying them enough and when they do they worship the ground they walk on, or they just simply try to push bad products/services onto their viewers. This also continues into their "partners" and based off jays2cents video on asus it only comfirms what I found out even more that they review products they are partners with and have established backdoor practices to push these products. This means their paid for product promotions IE reviews the companies have even more influence than ever. It makes me question the legiamicy of their bench mark tests, the products they get could be higher tier products than what the actual consumers get as many of the times from the looks of tear down videos even the dye sometimes is different with GPUs as shown in gamers nexus whom I have questioned the legimacy of his content for years and been highly sceptical of as he has basically shat on 6700xt and then gone back when yeston "gave" him a card to test and reviewed that one much much much overly wealmingly positive. Hardware unboxed as soon as that Nvidia tried to pull their graphics cards them and some of the biggest youtubers flipfloped and it is clear to me that nvidia manipulated the reviewing community as all of them collectively crapped on the 6700xt and newer AMD cards and then would hint that cards like the 6600xt is much more worth it than the 3060ti after crapping on it like AMD didn't pay them enough or the threats from Nvidia were so great that it influenced their reviews so heavily and collectively. The fact that these "reviews" are infact paid for product promotions and the fact they get the products for free there should be disclaimers within the reviews and they should stop calling them reviews, as everything they do is actually illegal in the states for not declaring them selves as a paid for product promotion when it is, and when they get the products for free, which is every video almost. When ever they have to pay out of pocket for a product they seem to crap on the products. This goes for game reviewing as well as many other fields but the more I find out about the reviewers process the more I find its unethical. They seem to have a high influence on the market as when I went to go buy a athlon 3000g for a minimalist build I ran into issues from the microcenter employee and when I bought the 6500xt for the same build later on all I got was yelled at by the microcenter employee who was litterally quoting reviews by linus tech tips and I told him I don't really care what he thinks this is a upgrade from the APU graphics of a athlon3000g. The employee from when I bought the 6500xt was litterally just calling all amd cards trash garbage with problematic drivers after quoting linus and was out right refusing to even sell me the 6500xt, I had to get another employee to get the card for me out of the case, I never saw that temper tantrum linus tech tips fan boy at that microcenter again after that. The other employee told me he acts this way every time someone tries to get any of AMD cards and he tries to sucker them into Nvidia cards and he tries to get people to buy the top end cards. If you can see them manipulating the thought process of microcenter employees you can also see them manipulating the market through various means through these influencers. TLDR: Reviewers are corrupt read above to find out why I think that way. PS: I agree with your analysis that it is a optimization issue. I am somewhat a game developer although I have not worked on a game in almost 10 years and a lot of these AAA game devs cut corners especially when they use premade engines, certain APIs/libraries, and frameworks that do more work for them in a more safe zone but is heavily less focused on optimizations when it comes to allocation to make sure developers don't do dumb things and then complain. Ontop of that a lot of those Api's, lirbary's, ides, and frameworks have A LOT of grabage data, code, unused functions, dead code, and some of that is actually causing issues. I can comfirm from my dev expeirence that optimization is commonly thrown on the back burner and sometimes optimization isn't even possible with certain engines as they heavily lock them down at the points where it matters. Unreal engine 4 comes to mind when talking about this.

[@TechDweeb]

Oh geeze. I've never heard of an employee refusing to sell a customer a card like that. That's freaking obnoxious. Like, okay, I get you don't think it's great, but maybe let the buyer decide for themselves huh? I hope that guy got put on mop duty.

[@floralpoboop]

@@TechDweeb I definitely know I wasn't the only one with that delt with that guy. At some point in that discussion we had he was trying to upsell me open box 2060 and at that time they wanted to charge ~$500 for it. And even a 6500xt is overkill for a athlon3000g and $200 was my budget.

[@axelvitsel]

Наконец то появился тот, кто расставил всё по своим местам, и показал, как обстоят дела на самом деле. Уважение!

[@BittiPomo]

great video. but it feel like its part 1. part 2 is required with 2 and 4gb vram included for more closer look ;)

[@TechDweeb]

I have already started working on a similar video with a 4gb gpu ;)

[@ironpolux]

you reminded me of the guy that invented the water engine :V

[@lloydmilton9808]

All this talk about giggle-bites and giggle-hurts, it makes me realize that I need to invest in more aspirin and bandages.

[@TechDweeb]

Bugspray too ☝

[@heartstringsguitar8498]

Giggle-Bite

[@Sp3cialk304]

I don't think 8gb cards are the problem. $400 8gb cards are. Under $200 8gb is fine.

[@masterlee1988]

Yep, I still can't believe that the 4060 Ti 8GB is 400 bucks.

[@nonegone7170]

@@masterlee1988 specially since they shifted the naming scheme, and the 4060Ti is actually a 4050Ti

[@masterlee1988]

@@nonegone7170 Yep, which is why I avoided it. I could tell it was more like 4050 Ti on specs alone.

[@KhizarKhan2001]

8gb vram is fine for now but I'm worried if it will be fine 2 or 3 years later because i upgrade my gpu after at least 3 years

[@TechDweeb]

Yeah who knows. I think it will still be relevant considering how many 4gb and 6gb and 8gb gpus there are out there (no game wants to be dragged through the mud for being 'unplayable' on the most popular gpus), I think devs will still design their games to play well on lower vram gpus for a while yet. They'll include ultra settings for the very high end gpus but keep the lower settings for us 8gb babies.

[@mattparker9726]

REEEEEEEEEEEE! NEVER ENOUGH VRAM! (also never enough bus width)

[@hailahaiela]

Once in a while we see a game well optimised for all settings, shader stutters , memory leak , these are all we getting.FH5 personally i feel best optimised title of late.

[@lucasmager5557]

Thanks tech enjoyed that I understand now🤓can I ask what overlay program you use for monitoring?

[@TechDweeb]

Yup! kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKrSlJlpqrCke5I

[@ironpolux]

I was thinking hey I am missing a guy, why is YT not recommending his vids?... but I remembered your name(even after a few months)! I hope he is still around, and you are! :D

[@matthewcherrington2634]

So where does igpus stand in all of this

[@iodaddycool]

The testing was made @ 1080p ultra, 2k ultra. You tested @1080p high! When you pay 600$ for a rtx 3070 ti you expect to play @ 2k ultra! 3070 ti was advertised as a 2k gpu...

[@JayzBeerz]

The game and PC detects how much VRAM a GPU has and it compensates for it. I play on a 1650 Super and it never uses more than 3800 VRAM of the 4000 available. I do play at 1080P Medium settings.

[@hircine92h]

ye.. *1080p* Medium settings.

[@avisso5467]

Lol, try Apex Legends with High textures

[@shieldtablet942]

You are missing the point. Some of the recent releases have quite nasty texture quality if not on high, so that cuts smaller VRAM cards. On top, if some generations before you could use the system RAM to provide backup, now GPUs come with x8 or x4 slots, so it is not fast enough and we get the pop-in problems. Moreover, if you look at 2060 to 3060 to 4060, even the perf improvements are very bad. This is to the point that a 2060 12GB to 4060 isn't really much to talk about. Nvidia is wasting silicon on features that could be used to improve perf. While previously it may have made sense to have a bigger cache and less VRAM bus, on 4060 this is a complete failure due to lack of VRAM and monitors moving to 1440p - which now takes a bigger hit.

[@joelwhitington4343]

I love it sounds like he is saying giggle bytes, love it

[@achaerna.6662]

I have two responses to this video. On column A we have "Why Would You Say Something So Controversial Yet So Brave!?!", and "I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It." on column B. Grumble grumble smile. Smile and nod grumble.

[@floatyseagull9472]

The only way I’ll be satisfied about this issue is if I see the vram usage of those same games on the ps5/Xbox series X. If it’s way lower than even the recent patches, I’ll stop worrying😂

[@Pumpkin8_]

I have 4gb of vram and i have no problem

[@starc.]

whats a gigglebyte ?

[@TechDweeb]

It's like a gigabyte but funny

[@samuelsyrzysko8110]

What resolution are you using with the gpus for this video?

[@The8bitbeard]

Well said. I think part of the problem some people have is FOMO. They think they're somehow missing out if they don't have the best most expensive hardware. Compare this to consoles where your hardware is what it is, so you can never feel like you're potentially missing out on something. There's also those who don't actually play games but they watch benchmark numbers instead. Nothing can ever be good enough.

[@neverletthemtameyou]

Thanks for another great video, mate! I purchased Jedi Survivor just to see if it would run on my GTX 1060 6 GB build. And it runs perfectly well. Low settings and a bit of FSR ofc, but still looks great on my 4K TV. Would love to see that 1050ti 4GB vid you mentioned making.

[@TechDweeb]

Nice! I'm excited to play Jedi Survivor! But these days I spend so much time making videos I find it hard to find time to game! I really need to work on that :S

[@colibri_studios]

Finally somebody explained me the difference between RTX 3060 and 3060Ti! I believe 12Gb made the 3060 a real bestseller while the most of the people didn't need that much of VRAM and could get a 30% higher performance.

[@infinity2z3r07]

the marketplace has to reject poorly optimized games. it is bad for everyone if 16gb vram and frame generation become the new bar for entry to this hobby

[@chriscastillo291]

How far will a 4gb gpu take you these day's?

[@TechDweeb]

That will be the next video I make on this topic!

[@drizzypuffs523]

Giggle Byte 😂 love it man!

[@user-s8jb3qb6y]

This whole discussion is around high settings on 1440p+. Are the games you tested 1440p / 4K?

[@bryndal36]

I have a RTX 3070 in my computer and an Ultrawide monitor. I tend to keep the graphics settings of the games I play at medium and they look great and run perfectly fine with "only" 8gb of ram.

[@domeberlin4480]

@@lux7459 jeah need too buy 7800 xt

[@d33pakkkk]

What resolution are you using in this video?

[@TheMetalisImmortal]

Thanks mate you are the best!

[@Wyv3rnn]

coming from someone who had a 1660 super with 6gb of VRAM and couldnt play the new COD without extremely inconsistent frame rates on LOWEST 1080p settings, it is a VRAM issue mostly, not entirely but mostly. PS5 and Xbox Series X have 16GB of VRAM so new games are pushing there VRAM limit in order to get the most of the new consoles, the sudden increase of VRAM usage will go down once the consoles get to 4-5+ years old but as of right now having 6gb of VRAM is not enough if your playing AAA games

[@cloudkelsey]

You can play 1440p in many games with a 8gb card its looking into the future at future titles and requirements that people are doing. When you provide lots of processing power and memory either on the main system or video card the developers use it and quite frankly get lazy about it. Long gone are the days of full optimization of code and memory. A good example of giving developers a box to play in is the PS2 and Final Fantasy 11 which was an online MMO title on a console. It only had 32mb of system memory and 4mb of graphics memory and 2mb of sound memory. It had a very limited amount of space for running code and storing textures but they got it to work. Now fast forward to today and we're talking gigabytes of memory and its getting used up quicker each year, not on all titles but some and there's a definite 8 to 12gb future limit where we're seeing a future proof for memory.

[@prabhakardhar1379]

1 year later- it is about the vram

[@DanDolme]

Star wars outlaws enters the chat

[@florider_hd]

they should instead tell AAA studios to stop releasing games before they hit the polishing stage

[@RudiTheMan]

and here I'm watching on 6gb vram rig,

[@wolfpackflt670]

I tested Hogwarts Legacy at 4k max setting NO RTX, I was getting 12gb. With RTX ON it's about 14gb. So at 4k your system would crash. 1440p would be slightly less but you be pushing it and would see crashes every once in a while.

[@keddytweek]

You should do cpu core count next.

[@Haydatsanime]

Moar gigglebites!

[@stockpilethomas7900]

Is that just 8gig just for 1080 or 1440?

[@Carnage_Lot]

Radeon gang. Love my 7900 XT and its 20gb of VRAM

[@rohanstormbanks7601]

Just saying VRAM wont help in gaming much if card doesnt have the horsepower... But yeah, having xtra vram also helps in gaming... Some game's custom engines are VRAM hungry...