The Computer-free Automation of a Jukebox (Electromechanics)

[@TechnologyConnections]

Those of you with eagle eyes will have noticed that the transfer switch is a double-pole switch. This added to the messiness of the "red button" analogy so... I ignored that bit of nuance! Yeah. Pretend it's a red button just like in the demo. But that gets pressed when it's let go. Easy, right? Seriously, I can't say I'm happy with how I explained that. So here's a (perhaps) better after-the-fact clarification; The Wurlamatic (main cam) really has *two* red buttons and *two* green buttons. The side 1/2 relays are the first green button. The transfer switch is the first red button. When the machine is at rest, the red button _is still being held in_ and the side 1/2 relays need to get around that to start it moving. Once that happens then the red button is "let go". The play switch is the *second* red button which stops the program mid-run. Then the trip switch becomes a second green button, which re-starts the program. Finally, when the machine is back to the starting point, the transfer switch is released and therefore the original "red button" is pressed to shut it down. Hope that helps!

[@nneeerrrd]

Doo dooo dooo doooo

[@buzzknudson5675]

@@nneeerrrd ok Franko

[@mikecummings4715]

I enjoy your channel to no end. You make me interested in things that don't interest me. Your parents should be very proud of you, I know I would be.

[@JohnWatkinsUK]

It actually looks more likely to be a SPDT (single pole, double throw) switch, not a double pole :)

[@tomcarlson3913]

As a EE who came here already understanding relay latching circuits, and understanding that some number of people watching this video can't say the same I think there is room for improvement in your explanation. It probably would have been best to do this schematically on a dry erase board adding and removing parallel colored lines to represent the active current flow. Or at the very least on your hardware demonstrator using say green for the green button, yellow for the on the latch and red for the kill switch and marking the terminals on the relay wiper(1&2), NO(1&2), NC(1&2) and coil. White (device being controlled) and grey wires (control circuit) provide almost no visual contrast and combined with unlabeled relay terminals turn the physical demonstrator into an undecipherable spaghetti mess for a layman.

[@billdanbury]

Brown? More like dark orange, amirite?

[@mf1ve]

I mean, you're not wrong.

[@muh1h1]

You beat me to it!

[@manuellujan666]

Been telling everyone their favorite color isn't real.

[@jamestricker3741]

Brown isn't a real colour!! (in case anyone else is wondering, there is another great video in this series about colour perception that's very worth watching)

[@Davestar-fj7kp]

More like orange with context

[@SomePotato]

"Switches, we can almost be endlessly clever with them." We did. We build computers out of them.

[@koyrehme4361]

"Self-latching circuits with interrupts" are basically SR latches in the electronics realm.

[@theantipope4354]

@@koyrehme4361 Yep, that's pretty much it.

[@Kabitu1]

Oh snap

[@alyx6427]

Some Potato and they’re now like a thousandth of the size

[@Aidiakapi]

@@alyx6427 More like a millionth, from millimeter to nanometer.

[@ralfoide]

Programming is just programming. Whether it's done with lines of C or cams, it is essentially just a game of logic combining sensors with timings. In all cases, debugging & unit testing is the hardest part.

[@stinkomalinko]

Which becomes especially challenging when a change request requires physical hardware revisions

[@GordonWrigley]

Yes and no, electrical mechanical stuff often tends to work in a cascade of different things changing state, whereas in software you generally try and centralize the state a bit more to make it easier to manage. The cam stack here is nice and centralized and is kinda how you want the software, the chain of switches and interrupts is more cascade like. Cascade is a problem because you have to check several different things to work out what exactly is going on at the moment, which is a maintenance nightmare in more complex systems.

[@allmycircuits8850]

I'm writing in Verilog and find many modules I did (some involving SPI, UART, Mil1553 interfaces, some memory access and many more) to resemble some of electromechanics I saw in washing machine for example. "This counter keeps going until in some state it should wait for some other action to proceed" and so on, so forth.

[@cadekachelmeier7251]

I bet you could prove a similar system to be Turing complete, if it hasn't already been proven.

[@KuraIthys]

Yes. And digital computer are largely transistor logic. What is a transistor really though? Well, the ones used in logic circuits are... Switches actuated by electricity. Sound familiar? XD Yeah. This device basically constructs digital logic circuits using relays and cams rather than transistor, but ultimately it's still broadly speaking a logic circuit. A computer is a computer is a computer, whether constructed of integrated circuits, individual transistors, valves, cogs, or indeed water in pipes, people putting marbles in matchboxes, or anything else. The method used is irrelevant. Only the underlying logic matters.

[@ZergrushEddie]

To add to the “it is amazing what you can do without circuitry”: My dad worked at a nuclear power plant as a tech. One of the pieces of equipment he worked on was a “square root computer.” It was, essentially, a box with some tubes at very specific bends. When air was sent through it, the ‘computer’ would indicate the square root of the air PSI. It was made in the early 60’s, all without a single piece of electronics. The funny part of the story is that one day he was sent out into the field to install virus/cyber-warfare protection on this ‘computer.’ He wrote in the work order “anyone capable of devising a digital signal that can disrupt an isolated pneumatic system deserves to trip the plant.” He got called into his boss’s office, scolded for making a joke and asked if he was able to get the software on the computer.

[@ApatheticGod0]

Ha excellent

[@johnkeefer8760]

I find the idea of that computer very satisfying

[@user-lb8do4ew6k]

"I'm in charge because someone needs to keep these dummies in line" -every dimwitted middle mgmt yes man ever

[@johanmetreus1268]

" asked if he was able to get the software on the computer." That's when you print the source code and tape it to the analogue computer.

[@NH4x4Jeep]

"Will take 4 wks to make it unhackable. Must be programmed remotely." After 1 mos of fishing: "Job complete." 😜👍

[@tzisorey]

"It might also kill somebody, but it'd work!" NOW you're thinking like the 70's! :)

[@ZePanthersGang]

😂😂😂

[@BardBreaker]

YESS!

[@edgeeffect]

I love how all the switches and relays and stuff are CLEARLY LABELLED watching Curious Marc trying to fix and restore old elecro-mechanical devices, I can't help thinking how wonderful this is.... no searching through obscure dusty manuals to find where the transfer switch is.... it's there! Look, there! Next to the label that says "Transfer Switch"... gorgeous.

[@MrDuncl]

That's because a service guy would have to go out and fix machines and time was/is money. We had two Pinball machines at college and I saw both being serviced. The 1977 Jungle Princess was crammed full of relays. The 1979 Williams Flash just contained a couple of big circuit boards.

[@_g7085]

Yep. They were designed to be maintainable (though modern pinball are decently servicable too). Old EM pinball are built like tanks and other than an occasional waxing or switch adjustment, will effectively last longer than you will : D

[@jslasher5330]

some engineer finally decided to label things correctly for future use! Here we ARE!

[@13donstalos]

Are you referring to the Moan?

[@DaveZeichner]

This is the mechanical equivalent of properly commenting code....

[@BRUXXUS]

I can't even imagine how long something like this took to design, refine, and troubleshoot to get working flawlessly. Reminds me of doing the Rube Goldberg contest for the state Engineering Fair back in HS many years ago. You can have everything working perfectly, then as soon as you add one more step it breaks the whole contraption. Now that I think about it... same goes for coding. 🤔

[@philips170t]

BRUXXUS to make design more challenging, I believe CAD wasn’t around that time, everything is on drawing boards. Engineers those days were hardcore.

[@erlendse]

Totally, there is a whole new level when you want it reliable! I have a CD-changer mechanism for cars I have studied some. By the looks of it, the CD's are stored in a stack, and to play one you split the stack and load the player into the slot, and then grip the disc with the spindle without letting the discs go during the operation. Some few motors and lots of switches. Eject and load probably have the same deal. Sure a microcontroller makes the sequencing somewhat simpler, but I would guess the program is mostly "energy that magnet, and run the motor until switch xx triggers". Not too different.

[@kinghoju]

And then once you have a working prototype you have to figure out a way to efficiently mass produce thousands of the finicky contraption--with each somehow assembled in proper working order.

[@erlendse]

@@Mikemenn It's kinda built as simple as possible. Modern stuff is way more complicated, while looking simpler. All that hidden complexity made by someone else, means that we don't understand the technology we use in our daily life. I am mainly refering to the integrated circuit(IC). I am not convinced it would look simple if they used discrete transistors to build it.

[@maxsnts]

@@erlendse Well, there is an analogy to made here. The engineers the design this machine also did not need to know a lot of how components work or or built. they don't need to know "how" a relay works (even if they do), only that it does, or how a motor works, only that it does, they don't need to know how gears are made as long as they do what they need. Those component act like the ICs of today (yes simpler) since in order to use them in a design, they did not nee to know all of its internal features.

[@AlRoderick]

When I was in high school back in the '90s we had a robotics program, we relied heavily on donated old industrial equipment from the auto industry. We had a family of microcontroller - based switching units called programmable logic controllers or PLCs. You'll see those all over the place even today, they're basically ruggedized big general purpose computer controlled switching devices. The most interesting thing to me about them was the way they were programmed. Because they were designed to be used by people who had been building electromechanical logic circuits their whole careers, you actually programmed them by creating ladder logic diagrams in the interface. It was essentially a computer programming language built using the visual language of electromechanical devices.

[@a.p.2356]

Ladder logic and PLCs are still totally universal in industrial applications. You occasionally see someone cludge something together with an Arduino, but the vast majority of industrial automation is done with PLCs.

[@AlRoderick]

@@a.p.2356 I guess it shouldn't surprise me that that's stuck around. I would have thought that maybe over time more and more systems would be relying on conventional computer code, but I guess there's no reason to throw out ladder logic when you've got a system that's supposed to respond in real time to logical events.

[@genewitch]

@@a.p.2356 and they still use the ladder circuit style of programming. IBEW friend of mine let me check out a manual for one of the many PLCs they have at the IBEW hall, and AvE also has a couple of videos about programming PLCs ... i think he used it for a linear actuator.

[@over00lordunknown12]

As a programmer, I find electro-mechanical devices to be extremely impressive and intriguing, it’s like a puzzle and with enough examining you can reverse engineer it and suddenly it all makes sense, but until then it’s like magic with all the little moving parts. I can make a program to do (almost) anything I want, but I couldn’t even make hardware if my life depended on it.

[@fdmillion]

"Did you notice something changing?"... Totally reminded me of playing Myst and Riven back in the day. That's exactly the sort of detail that would have been crucial to solving one of the puzzles in those games...

[@Islacrusez]

Just in case you weren’t aware, a recent project updated the entire Myst series to work on modern systems. Perfect time to revisit!

[@osmium6832]

I just had an intense flashback to the sound of rolling wooden spheres for some reason.

[@DeviantOllam]

this is awesome, and it reminds me of a presentation by my friend Jason Scott... an amazing technology archivist. he mentioned and showed some photos of an old racing/driving game cabinet that was totally analog. there was a huge "record disc" type element which was, he stated, part of the "track guide" and if the player's vehicle drove too far to one side at times, there were electrical contacts that would be made which was used to perform edge collision detection. i will look for the specific talk and edit this comment if i can find it!

[@zeebeezoey]

I'd love to know more about the relay logic in old elevators tbh. Maybe you and TC could collab on a video about elevators?

[@yesthatsam]

DeviantOllam pretty please! I’d love to see that

[@MisterTalkingMachine]

@@zeebeezoey I think Big Clive has a video showing a very old electromechanical elevator controller he found somewhere. I don't think there's a full explanation of how it works but it's neat still.

[@TheDimsml]

@@zeebeezoey There are some videos around. Try these: This one is a nice hands-on video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lanNiZegn5ega7M , and this one has a nice schematic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqitZ3-MYph7j8U

[@eugenetswong]

@@zeebeezoey i thought that he already posted a thorough video about elevators and the various modes of operation. If it wasn't him, then it was somebody else, but it did feature him.

[@calderniven8110]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="128">2:08</a> may have been the best unused rick roll setup of all time.

[@shadowpod13]

I didn't even realize it at the time. Had to search the song and hear the beginning to realize that it was Never Gonna Give You Up. Quality.

[@clayman1565]

@@shadowpod13 its Tarzan Boy he was just saying it would have been an awesome setup for a rick role

[@simpson6700]

i fully expected a rick roll there.

[@thebonesaw..4634]

That's not "Never Gonna Give You Up"... It's *"Tarzan Boy", by Baltimora >>* kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y16ZdJd3rtV9qbM

[@theshamanite]

"Listen to the sound here." *Never gonna give you up...*

[@offrails]

This just screams out for a Techmoan crossover - I can just imagine you closing with "Anyway, that's it for the moment. As always, thanks for watching" and then cutting to a video of the jukebox in action with the records rotating, the arm moving, etc. Also, I was one of many who was bracing for a Rickroll on that last record

[@katho8472]

Not to forget a cameo of the puppets :)

[@diamondsmasher]

I need the puppets

[@Christopher-N]

I was expecting to be Rickrolled with the first record (2:35). This could definitely use a *Techmoan* crossover with the Moans puppets. A tabletop jukebox is shown in his in-house café scene, so lets compare between the lion of a machine and its mouse counterpart. I'll write *Technology Connections* now and suggest that..... done.

[@Ned47628]

That makes me wonder if they ever made a minidisc based jukebox

[@R2k2]

I agree. Techmoan also likes to highlight the mechanics on retro and vintage machines.

[@blakebell8533]

"Whatever the kids do with Arduino these days..." How about a scream powered microwave?

[@earthquake3421]

Lol or an airsoft gun that shoots you when you get shot in a game

[@AmericanIdiot7659]

@@earthquake3421 pissbot

[@masonjones5658]

A water faucets flows when the sun comes out

[@Hitchhiker_a.d.R.]

A UV intensity meter

[@bitterlemonboy]

Nuclear explosive controller and remote detonator

[@1e1001]

I love how they abbreviated "relay" to rly, so "Side 2, RLY?"

[@dasy2k1]

That's fairly typical.... When you have many many relays you end up with an entire alphabet of code to help name everything. For example in the UK railway signalling system a T2PR is the relay that is the second repeat of the track circuit relay (energised when there is no train on a section of track) And the EKSR is a relay that is latched by any of the lamps in a signal having its first filament blow and running on the backup Which generally lights an indicator lamp to tell the maintenance people to go change the lamp

[@rorykurek643]

Ya rly

[@peterward2275]

Electro mechanics seem so much more ingenious than micro circuits.

[@13donstalos]

Really bro? Side 2? At this point...? Pshh... Unreal

[@Paul-pl4vy]

Being a member of a deaf family the subtitles are great. Thank you.

[@ralanham76]

I don't understand why others don't do it

[@parnikkapore]

"takes too much time"

[@BlaDeKke]

@@parnikkapore Worth every second

[@parnikkapore]

@@BlaDeKke indeed (as a hearing person watching this on a bus without headphones)

[@thatonehumanoid7756]

There is a joke somewhere about deaf people learning how jukeboxes work but I’m too lazy to figure it out

[@BEdmonson85]

Ah man, totally takes me back. Back in the early '00's I apprenticed under one of the guys that used to repair these things on the daily. He was getting out of the business, but there was unbelievably actually still a market around my area for a good repair tech for old jukes. So I learned what I could and took over the reigns for a few years. I still get a couple calls a year or so that I take on if I have the time.

[@maadpaw7378]

My neighbor still does this, has a whole workshop filled with these things. It's a dying art

[@upperedgelon1317]

The novelty of juke boxes only grows as the years pass by

[@nslouka90]

I have to give props to you for getting that call: my jukebox just stopped playing records one night, can you come look at it?

[@BigioBio]

I still have the 45 record

[@BEdmonson85]

@@nslouka90 Well, I'll let you in on a little secret, maybe it'll help. I would guess in about 80% of the cases where a jukebox was malfunctioning, there isn't much wrong with it. Stuff from that era was built on a whole other level back then. Usually a good cleaning and lube job will get you back up and running. But do NOT use WD-40 on the mechanicals, use someting like a 20W ND oil (ND = Non-Detergent). Detergents attract dirt and dust. 3-in-1 Motor oil for electrical motors would be a good choice. Use it sparingly, no need to drown it in the stuff. Edit: The other 20% was usually some adjustment out of whack.

[@japzone]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1125">18:45</a> - "Well, I'm gonna save that for the next video. But before I go, let's make that cliffhanger extra painful."

[@webchimp]

Can't wait for part six of this new trilogy of videos.

[@DavidLindes]

haha, right? And @@webchimp - let's hope so! :)

[@deus_ex_machina_]

> part six > trilogy I see what you did there.

[@skagerstrom]

The smoooothest transition to ending music ever

[@I_Santos_]

I came here for this.

[@Trainfan1055Janathan]

So this machine is basically a giant electric Rube Goldberg device? Cool.

[@slowburntm3584]

Obviously you have not seen the annual Lego Rube Goldberg event.

[@PlasticCogLiquid]

Every machine used to be a RG device back in the day :D

[@ReptilianLepton]

Computers these days are mainly solid-state Rube Goldberg machines.

[@HovektheArtist]

Arent all mechanical driven machines rgd's

[@nomar5spaulding]

You should look into the electro-mechanical fire control equipment of warships from the 1930s and 40s...

[@MichaelSteeves]

Interestingly, nuclear plants run significant amount of systems using relay logic. Relay logic is reliable and has predictable failure modes, unlike most digital logic.

[@g00rb4u]

Do you mean the relay itself failing or an unexpected state?

[@allmycircuits8850]

Also there are lots of relay lifts (elevators) out there. In Russia, most of electric trains still have very sophisticated relay and contactor and partly pneumatic logic. There is literally nothing that train engineer couldn't fix using some jumper wires, isolating tape and deep knowledge of schematics of these trains.

[@okuno54]

@@g00rb4u Well, I know digital logic can get upset pretty quickly. Static shocks that a human wouldn't even be able to notice can destroy common transistors. Similarly, if an input voltage level is between two fairly narrow bands of valid voltage, an IC can have unpredictable behavior; if it spends "too long" there (which isn't long at all), I know at least some chips will overheat and damage themselves. I have a hard time imagining the same sort of things being as big an issue in relays. After all, transistors perform the same functions as relays, but can be microscopic. I expect relays, being much larger, to be much less fragile.

[@Mark-kt5mh]

Don't tell the PLC guys that, they'll get butt hurt.

[@Mark-kt5mh]

@@okuno54 Unpredictable behavior in an integrated circuit as a result of an error of analog signal processing? I've been a computer engineer for some time now, but I've never seen such an easy problem to fix manifest in practice.

[@kevinsong712]

1970s Wurlitzer: imma label every component in that machine for repairs 2010s Apple: imma glue down components and use the exact same screws with three different screw heads to deter repairs-men

[@mihan2d]

2020: right to repair 1970: necessity to repair

[@kevinsong712]

@@mihan2d true

[@c182SkylaneRG]

@@mihan2d Still a necessity to repair if you want 2020's technology to still work in 50 years the way 1970's technology still does.

[@wavegodsco557]

@@c182SkylaneRG R/woooooooooooooosh

[@c182SkylaneRG]

@@wavegodsco557 Probably. I didn't get much sleep last night. :)

[@Yahriel]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="461">7:41</a> so all those labels there are the analog equivalent of code comments and I love it.

[@maxine_q]

Except that code comments don't end up in the finished product.

[@GashimahironChl]

@@maxine_q I mean, sometimes the product is shipped with the source.

[@PiotrPilinko]

Necessity of commenting code usually is a code smell. Only tricky parts and algorithm outlines should be commented.

[@parnikkapore]

@@PiotrPilinko Me too, I only use comments for "what does this part do" and explaining nonobvious/smart portions.

[@jayands]

@@parnikkapore Just remember, "Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?" - Brian Kernighan, _The Elements of Programming Style_ , 2nd Edition

[@AveryDonovan]

I chuckled a bit when Baltimora’s “Tarzan Boy” started playing at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="156">2:36</a>.

[@mikesum32]

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

[@duanethamm4688]

Rockin Over The Beat on the other side if I remember correctly

[@KennethSorling]

I love that translucent green vinyl. Is that single commercially available like that?

[@edloki3057]

Ah.. so that's why my mullet suddenly grew back.

[@serfnuts]

Thank you kind human being, I couldn't remember the name of that song for the life of me but had the riff stuck in my head for the rest of the video trying to figure out what it was. One of those songs I love for some reason and forgot all about because I haven't heard it in so long.

[@SotNist]

"heart shaped groove" - would be a perfect song tile for a jukebox.

[@romandjma.recordplayers7806]

The relay demo reminded me of ElectroBOOM… minus the countless censor beeps and 3rd degree burns.

[@Atreea]

and more echo

[@Fuddleton]

So when the Fonz slaps the jukebox, he's probably just bumping one of the start switches Electromechanical piracy

[@chillzwinter]

Heeeeey!

[@LaikaLycanthrope]

Kind of like fixing an old CRT by banging the top of it.

[@FixerUK]

Or that should be "👍Heeeeey!👍"

[@rogermwilcox]

What does Fonzie feed his horse? 'Aaaaaaaay!

[@JamiePohlOA]

So dumb and funny.

[@theshamanite]

"Without this mechanism, there would be broken disks." ~ TC *Violently switches it on and off*

[@who-ge1gu]

The clicks, clacks, pings, pops, and buzzing are so soothing.

[@damionlee7658]

"What gets that all started..." ... Well children, that's a story for another time. I know, I know, but it's getting late, and you have school in the morning... Ah the wonderful nostalgic moments your presenting style brings with it. 😌

[@benjaminbrady2385]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1016">16:56</a> "There are a ton of if then statements in here" I guess you could say it's made of... Switch Statements

[@raykent3211]

Ouch!

[@schievel6047]

Badumm-Tsh

[@muche6321]

While it's true that a _switch_ statement is a bunch of _if_ statements, the reverse is not necessarily true. In this case, each _if_ checks different (boolean) variable, whereas a _switch_ checks different values of one (usually non-boolean) variable.

[@raykent3211]

@@muche6321 yeah but he used the plural, he didn't say it was the equivalent of a single switch statement. I'm sure you know that if/then and if/then/else can be implemented as switch statements. The first being analogous to a single throw mechanical switch, the second to a changeover one.

[@orbik_fin]

A switch statement with a simple integer argument is generally a jump table, not a bunch of if statements. Although compilers may optimize it into consecutive or nested branches if the number of cases is small.

[@zmknox]

Shoutout to Tarzan Boy. Peak 80s new wave one hit wonder right there.

[@kaneyt0]

How was this posted 1 day ago?

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@kaneyt0 patreon

[@AlyxxTheRat]

"One hit wonder"? Nobody liked Woodie Boogie?

[@Chris_Ramsay1]

Is it bad that whenever I hear that song I immediately think of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III?

[@6581punk]

Just recognised what it was and then the music skipped, darn copyright rules.

[@amashqamar1714]

So basically, mechanical things are the equivalent of using a million “else if” functions

[@sol2544]

Digital electronics, at their most basic level, are quite similar. What I learned when taking a class on it is that many logic circuits that do other functions, are really just basic logic like that. Many logic gates that do "complex" things are comprised of multiple, sometimes quite a lot, of simpler logic under them. A NAND gate and NOR gate are comprised of multiple AND and OR gates. A flip-flop uses multiple of *those* gates to self-power itself in a way similar to how the relay self-powered itself when switched on, and quite a few types of memory is made of ridiculous amounts of flip-flops, with different gates made of flip-flops being used to store data in a rudimentary way or to even interact with it. (Yes, they are quite useful) Bottom line, digital and computer logic is made of a thousands of different "else if" statements made by the flip flops or data storing logic gates, and a billion different AND, OR, NAND, and NOR functions are used to create those statements. I guess the difference comes when you get electro-mechanical things actually physically moving or doing something, which digital doesnt, since uh, that's an analog thing

[@berylliosis5250]

@@sol2544 Generally I'd imagine AND and OR would be made of NAND and NOR, not the other way around. To my knowledge the set of gates {AND, OR} is not universal, while {NAND} and {NOR} are. Actually, in modern practice for making a computer, things need to be optimized enough that you would never use a NAND or NOR to create a gate that could be a different physical circuit. Still, the general idea still applies.

[@joeydurant6267]

@@sol2544 was just wracking my brain for that term "else if" thank you.

[@blakksheep736]

Yeah, fair.

[@blakksheep736]

@@berylliosis5250 not quite. You can actually make any logic gate using just the NAND gate, and thats how they're built on computer circuitboards

[@kindlin]

After watching all of Ben Eater's breadboard computer series, this is like a splash of water to the face. It's basically the same thing, mechanically. It's like going back to vacuum tubes or something! I love this video and I can't wait for the next one! I have a feeling the next one will be even longer, or have to be split apart once more.

[@joeydurant6267]

Ah... I knew this comment section was gonna be as good as the video itself. Gonna check that out next. Thanks.

[@chrischiesa3253]

Technically, this could all have been done entirely mechanically, LONG BEFORE vacuum tubes or even electricity, as long as you had a midget or monkey to pedal the main drive shaft on your automated Victrola.

[@Real_Retrophilia]

I stay away from Netflix series because of cliffhangers. Go to KZbin they said...

[@mazzalnx]

Don't look up 'Project Binky' then. It's an extremely entertaining project (for most people that enjoy mechanics and fabrication) that's been documented and going on since bloody 2013. They still haven't finished it. Endless cliffhangers with very little filler in any given episode... I'm sure it'll leave a hole in the hearts of a few hundred thousand people once it's over. There's very little like it anywhere else.

[@Lopoi]

When you said that the mechanism was hidden I thought you were going for: "by the magic of buying 2 of them" line

[@poohbear01x48]

Best channel on KZbin by far. I wish more educational content like this was made. Not only is it informational, but your passion for the subject shines through in every video.

[@hugovangalen]

Absolutely one of the better (dare I say best!) channels!

[@WireWeHere]

Coincidentally I played Tarzan Boy yesterday plus a couple more Baltimora songs off the same album. Knew it first note, in fact before the note was at full amplitude. Hearing it brought me back to 1986 and lending my copy to the DJ at a local club during a trip to Radium Hot Springs. This was just a short hop through a couple inches of snow on the way there and up to half a foot on way back to Golden BC where we were building a CP Rail train repair facility on a reclaimed swamp. Now I remember standing in the local hardware store watching intently on a television behind the checkout counter showed the launch of the ill-fated shuttle. Funny how we can all be watching the same KZbin videos but we're experiencing our own internal version of what's next. I've been an industrial automation electrician for over 40 years and used ladder logic in an Allen Bradley PLC5 to run a dome top style jukebox in 1988. It was overkill and impossible to ever relocate the jukebox since it was unfortunately attached to a sawmill.

[@jonothanthrace1530]

The one time you EXPECT to get Rickrolled, and you don't.

[@nthgth]

Could that be considered an indirect Rickroll? 🤔

[@AidanXavier1]

I'm almost disappointed I didn't get rickrolled. What a missed opportunity

[@justahungarianguy]

I actually rickrolled my friend with a record lol.. I told him that I'll play miss you by the rolling stones and played never gonna give you up... He couldn't believe it lmao

[@flamingtp4947]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLaZapvjMyLmbM

[@brendancross2767]

If you expect it, I don't believe it's a rickroll As someone said earlier, if you expect it and it doesn't happen, it's a reverse roll

[@MatroxMillennium]

Dude, I have that same green Tarzan Boy record in my jukebox! Mine is one of the early computerized models, though (a 1979 Wurlitzer X200). It still uses a largely mechanical changer mechanism, but the computer handles storing selections and moving the carousel to the proper position.

[@Chris.Strange]

The selection accumulator mechanism sounds like an analogue telephone being dialled. I'm guessing that it uses a similar principle.

[@bbgun061]

That's my guess also.

[@godfreypoon5148]

That 60 Hz buzz sounds so quaint and uncertain of itself. Our 50 Hz buzz sounds like "I'm going to do the thing, and if you have a problem with it, I'll give you a surprise plasma spray deposition coating of copper."

[@raydunakin]

LOL!

[@raydunakin]

This is awesome! I love these old-school machines, they're so fascinating.

[@colemanadamson5943]

I just figured it out. You have a talent for stating complicated things in a simple, yet detailed manner. You don't dumb things down so much as using words that illuminate the concepts. That is a wonderful talent God has given you and I'm glad to watch and listen to you using that talent. Thank you!

[@McFlyOrPie]

Argh! The whole time I'm waiting to see how it knows which disc its at. You're a master of suspense. Pulling a Walking Dead cliff hanger.

[@mark22732]

For those of you who enjoyed this, would highly recommend checking out old elevator relay logic, its kinda like this, but huge.

[@gordonrichardson2972]

qwerty22 Our 50 year old elevator still uses electromechanical relays and micro-switches.

[@-abacchus]

I love learning about how these old jukeboxes work - Great to see the old EM machines working using simple sensors and relays. Another favourite is ten pin bowling machines. Check out the huge mechanisms hidden behind the lanes.

[@potterfanz6780]

I used to have an electromechanical pinball machine, and it was basically just a map of switches, electromagnetic coils, and cam units. In this video he showed a locking relay that used electricity to lock itself, but this video reminded me of an interesting type of relay that pinball machines used to stay locked. Most relays have a single coil with a plate attached to a spring, and switch or set of switches. www.pinrepair.com/em/blylockrelay2.jpg When the coil energizes, the plate is pulled and the switches make contact, or contact a different circuit. After deenergizing, the spring pulls the plate and switches back to their original state. The locking switch, which stays locked even when the machine is off, uses two coils, two plates, and two springs to control a single set of switches. www.pinrepair.com/em/blygameover1.jpg

[@-abacchus]

@@potterfanz6780, thanks for the info buddy. Designing this technology was certainly an 'art'. I've watched most of Joe's Classic Video Games KZbin channel, and there's a lot of EM pinball machines that he repairs (and a handful of jukeboxes) and its all fascinating stuff! I would seriously love to work on any of these machines, whilst repairing it seems you'd follow a fairly logical procedure, but the initial design and build procedure - wow, these guys must have dreamt in EM 😊

[@rdwells]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="660">11:00</a> - So, basically you have an S-R latch with a single relay rather than a couple of NOR gates. Pretty, cool, actually.

[@Colonel_Overkill]

you have touched on the very heart of the reason I became a gunsmith. They are amazing machines that can upon insertion of a magazine automatically release the slide and load a round of ammunition as well as once fired they wait until the pressure in the barrel has reached a safe level then begin moving, subsequently remove the brass casing and throw it violently into the face of the fellow to your right then immediately retrieve a new round and deposit it into the chamber locking the slide into place as it does until required to repeat. The function of the 3 round burst or equivalent is equally fascinating. A firearm can be made to be capable of automatic fire in different ways but most are relatively simple. The burst fire mode contains a ratchet looking piece and uses it to count how many rounds have fired on that trigger pull to know how long to go bang bang for.

[@Reksrat]

I really want one of these made of acrylic. That would be so cool to see the inner workings in action from all angles

[@seanwieland9763]

Ah, just like analog pinball machines.

[@cadekachelmeier7251]

I would love to see him open one of those up and go through it.

[@TechnologyConnections]

Just wait.

[@MickeyD2012]

@@TechnologyConnections SPOILER ALERT

[@blindleader42]

​@@TechnologyConnections That sounds like a serious threat! Looking forward to it. 😁 1960's vintage are the ones I played to avoid school work.

[@FlagggRandall]

@@TechnologyConnections Oh God the hype.

[@foophoof]

I was half-expecting the video to end the moment the stylus hit the record in the outro.

[@Oncampus2k]

foophoof Me too!

[@prettypointlessvideo]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="710">11:50</a> onwards- I had to login to KZbin just to comment on how much I love this part of the video. That's exactly how my mind works. Imagine a theory, design a mechanism and then consider the dangers/flaws. How you said "might kill someone" is exactly how I end up dismissing lots of my ideas for electronic/diy projects :)

[@catholiccontriversy]

I took a machine programming class, and we basically had to make programs that use this kind of technology to help us understand how programs are made and how machines understand programming. It's pretty cool.

[@1kreature]

Look at it this way: Modern automation using electronics still use switches.They are just much smaller. See! Now you can love modern electronics as well :)

[@nthgth]

Yeah but a lot of modern electronics accomplishes the same things 1970s electronics did, but the modern ones require six or seven orders of magnitude more switches to do so. So it's much less impressive (by six or seven orders of magnitude).

[@Gutsquasher]

@@nthgth For the case of the record player at least, and it's still morning so I haven't considered much else, but I imagine modern tech would simplify the number of switches, solenoids, etc. The move from logic being mechanical to digital makes things simpler in many situations, but I can imagine some (anything requiring analog mechanics) that would use way more like you say!

[@LukeSykpeMan]

​@@nthgth That is just patently false. It's modern computer CPUs that have six or seven orders of magnitude more switches, and: a) saying they "require" them is not entirely true, since technically you could make a fully programmable CPU with 150 or so transistors, it would just be abysmally slow for anything one would expect a modern CPU to do (Hope I didn't need to point this out, but the machine in this video IS abysmally slow compared to a modern digital music playing device, and extremely limited in functionality compared to an actual CPU, so I wouldn't really hold that against the CPU). The orders of magnitude are there for processing power - so you can make otherwise complex tasks that require hundreds or thousands of instructions take milliseconds to execute. b) proprietary integrated circuits with just a single task to perform (like a device _only_ designed to play music, much like the jukebox in the video) needs several orders of magnitude less switches than a fully programmable CPU. While I have little to no experience with integrated circuit design - I'm a Computer Science major and programmer - I'd be willing to bet one should be able to design a logic board that implements what this jukebox does (and _only_ what this jukebox does) with just as many switches as the analog version, just at a fraction of the space required.

[@natdrat00]

The best part of this machine is that everything is labeled.

[@Nadia1989]

_clearly_ labled, which is better

[@glenncaughey5044]

Us electronic techs used to be respected back in the day. Such were the days...

[@skyjoe55]

As someone who loves to code and spends hours on a computer daily, i love everything about code but like with wiring It reminds me of real life redstone

[@theuncalledfor]

It pretty much _is._ Redstone was obviously based on these kinds of simple electronics/electromechanical components. The basic principles of doing engineering with them are the same. The biggest differences are imposed by the world (reality vs Minecraft game world), the way Minecraft has this 1m block grid whereas reality has arbitrary shapes and sizes, etc.

[@NFSHeld]

Hey Alec, this weekend I've been repairing my girlfriend's DVD player, and I have to say it's really awesome how cleverly designed their tray automation is. It's like 3x nested principle I'll move a bit of plastic with a curved so a pin moves over a bit, engaging a tooth bar to slide it over which lowers the motor and the DVD onto the tray, before sliding over even further to unlock the tray, until the curved track starts pushing out the tray which engages another tooth bar on the tray to push it out completely which also has a slight S curve to pull the former moving bar from the cog. It's such a clever design, I was amazed.

[@oflittleconsequence]

A man after my own heart. If you haven't done the Curta calculator yet (I will search after I'm done watching this) I'd LOVE a deep dive into that!

[@triptheroad]

That 60 Hz buzz it makes when it's switching records; I can smell the florescent-lit wood-paneled 70s era basement this thing probably resides in now 😂😂

[@shaneomacgardner4034]

I love these systems, there's nothing more gratifying than designing/problem solving a relay circuit and seeing it "come to life" really cool video :-)

[@dhpbear2]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1300">21:40</a> - Wow! Glorious stereo from that OLD Gold-Lettered Columbia 45 :)

[@thejpkotor]

Reminds me of cam pins we used to use to ‘program’ early automated lathes and mills. I worked at a company a little over a decade ago that still does most of their machining this way. They have to be pretty creative to keep up with competition using CNC.

[@typograf62]

I once mounted an electric doorbell, a self-latching relay, a battery and a non-mercury mercury switch under a chair in the canteen at work. It was designed to start ringing if someone tipped the chair above a certain limit. It did not have a reset switch (to cause maximum embarrasment). I earned some fame for that. The "mercury switch" was made from a small glass tube (from a clothes iron) filled with small balls from a ball bearing and some terminals for the current. Perfect.

[@robinsonmedia6370]

The waiting is the hardest part. Looking forward to Part 2.

[@BertGrink]

Indeed, and ditto

[@AethericEchoes]

(<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1109">18:29</a>) "What gets this all started?" A quarter!

[@sol2544]

:D

[@ddaddy5403]

Ever since I was a kid these type of things were always my favorite. They kind of lost their luster for a while but the Rarity of them nowadays brings it back. My favorite was always pinball machines

[@rwplm]

The 3 gear system in <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="308">5:08</a> is also a similar design used in rear differentials for vehicles. the concept of how that was designed and works can also be found in a old 1937 GM video called "Around The Corner."

[@Deathbyfartz]

As someone who has worked in a electronics repair shop for the last couple of years, i would have to agree that electromechanical engineering is amazing. I got hired with nothing more than the experience of a hobbyist, and I'm on a weekly basis amazed at how complex they could make machines, some of these really old turntable players with their gears and tracks all controlled by a couple of switches, still seems like magic to me.

[@saurabhkulkarni8854]

I can't imagine how much work goes into making these videos. Really love your content!

[@247flashgames]

Wow, another series! I can’t wait to see the next video! Honestly, you’re amazing.

[@AmusementLabs]

"It might also kill someone, but it would work." This is my new life quote...

[@millomweb]

Is that what they said about the guillotine ?

[@michnygaard]

Thank you. What a view. I was sales director for components back then. You cannot imagine how many partnumbers a Company needed

[@dylhas1]

I just don’t care about Jukeboxes at all, but the way you present info is so enjoyable so I ended up watching the entire video

[@garblemaster5641]

I understood almost everything in this video. Thanks Minecraft.

[@aetheralmeowstic2392]

Redstone IS incredibly electromechanical, after all.

[@temporarychannelname8620]

I remember learning T Flip Flops and AND/XOR gates. Those were the days.

[@seankkg]

"Pay attention to the sounds it makes." TARZAN BOY AT MAX VOLUME That's definitely the hardest I've laughed here.

[@peteranderson037]

Thanks for reminding me what the name of that song is.

[@toweypat]

Good tune!

[@VaughnJogVlog]

Yep, I paid attention.

[@robodragonn9506]

Thank you! Now i can look up this bop!

[@ShitHappensRLY]

I searched for this exact comment, thank you

[@Verlisify]

Its mind blowing how they got all of this to work

[@timharig]

The description given in these videos makes the design of these machines seem much more complicated than they actually need to be. While describing everything in terms of a sequential chain of causalities makes a great story, it adds a lot of obfuscation that is not necessary during the design process. An engineer only looks at the design from the viewpoint of each of the outputs. At what point should each motor or solenoid be activated? What combination of inputs (sensor switches) are necessary to define those points at which the solenoid or motor should be activated. The result of answering those questions is a logic table defining the behavior of each output in terms of a set of inputs. The cams were created to generate inputs that did not otherwise stem from natural movements of the machinery. Latching relays were used to convert momentary inputs into inputs with duration and state. From the logic table, we have mathematical tools (Boolean algebra, min/max terms, Karnaugh maps, Quine-McClusky algorithm, etc.) than can be used to convert the logic tables into the logical operations needed to define the outputs in terms of the inputs. These logical operations are then encoded using ladder logic of series and parallel switches that define the wiring connections necessary to implement the logic as a circuit. These steps are simply repeated for all of the outputs. Some minor amount of work was probably then done to optimize and reduce any redundancy between the separate output circuits to minimize component counts. Once you understand how to approach these kinds of designs, they are actually pretty easy to accomplish.

[@blakegebauer76]

I mean just look at the internal combustion engine. Its amazing cars actually work

[@KarlaO711]

Nice to see a Pokétuber on this channel :)

[@joeydurant6267]

@@timharig is it hard to learn to design audio circuits? Effects pedals for guitar specifically? It is the perfect blend of a lot of my various nerd interests but I'm pretty limited on electrical circuitry knowledge. Not even sure if that's the correct phrasing but you seem reasonably intelligent so I trust you 'get' what I'm asking. How hard is it for a beginner to get to the point that they could bread board a circuit and have something even semi usable. A fuzz face circuit is like three transistors I believe... Depending on what model/version it is.

[@MiniMii550]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="153">2:33</a> he could have Rick Rolled us but he didn't, he's a hero.

[@rithvikkona8922]

he is not he hero we deserved, but the hero we needed

[@jacksonbrewer2380]

He should’ve

[@digamejh]

But that record is not green.

[@egeoeris]

I just love the ingenuity of cams: They're basically more gappy version of cylindrical phonographs, which is a predecessor of the very records this machine plays, one uses the rightly timed bumps to make sound and the other uses it to operate the machine. The full cycle of old and new tech in this machine is astonishing. Thank you for sharing these with us I love this channel.

[@ActualLiteralKyle]

By the end of the video, every time he says “Cam Relay” it sounds like he’s saying “Camry Lay” and I’m thinking about people banging in the back of a sensible-but-stylish, affordable sedan.

[@0begoo0man0]

@ kylesh pherd LOL that was funny :D

[@dmor6696]

Thank you

[@zacksstuff]

If you love electromechanics, you'd love the old Bell long distance system. Evan Doorbell has some great videos talking about the old school phone network and how it worked.

[@tieline1333]

Holly crap, it is dylan cruz! What are the odds!

[@user2C47]

I was about to leave the same comment. Maybe a future video I the series could feature a step PABX. Evan Doorbell also hosts several hours of telephone network sounds at evan-doorbell.com.

[@sabre0smile]

"Audibly improved smooth jazz" very nearly made me choke on my tea.

[@mr.viewer6988]

I've got to say, that outro was absolutely amazing!

[@maritimeseven]

I love how you talk about videos being too long... as if any of us would care if they were an hour or even more. 🥰

[@AaronSmith1]

Always look forward to the smooth jazz outro. This video's was particularly satisfying!

[@Mmouse_]

"all without a single bit of code" The ingenuity + the relays and limit switches are the logic gates and code - I agree, it's much cooler than silicon.

[@raafmaat]

they can be considered logic gates yes, but in absolutely no way does code have anything to do with it

[@TechnologyConnections]

@@raafmaat bit was also a pun

[@raafmaat]

@@TechnologyConnections hadnt noticed! i like it

[@Mmouse_]

@@raafmaat if punch cards are code, then so are cams.

[@Mmouse_]

@@TechnologyConnections can't believe you ended this where you did dude... That's the biggest cliff hanger you've done.

[@Linkous12]

This is super interesting, despite the fact that I only understood about 20% of it.

[@justpaul899]

Getting this video was like a Christmas present. I've been looking for a video about jukeboxes like this forever! Thank you!

[@Ma_genta]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1316">21:56</a> that transition was SMOOTH

[@jamestricker3741]

This is a very thorough, in-depth video. Thank you.

[@Craxin01]

And somewhere a Minecraft Redstone engineer is saying, "I can make it more compact and efficient!"

[@Sillimant_]

_"it's actually pretty simple"_ -Mumbo

[@antreaskonstantinou8585]

A real redstone enginner knows that compactness is not a thing (to some extend)

[@Huvada]

“It might also kill someone, but it would work” -many of the construction workers I’ve met

[@doggerel6847]

That’s just engineer speak for... well for everything...

[@Rossturnerphoto]

I never studied Electronics, mechanics, or wiring, and most of this went over my head, but I find it fascinating and interesting. It's amazing how much complicated technology we were able to have even before computers started running everything.

[@MattH-wg7ou]

I personally agree with your opinion presented in the first minute. In 2003 in my freshman year of college at Clemson University I came in 3rd place in the Engineering Design Competition. We had to design and build a coin operated time delay camera that had to only work when $1.00 of any denomination/combination of coins were inserted, then take a picture after 60 seconds or something. The team that won just did the whole thing electronically, just a computer board/chip thing that I didnt, and still obviously dont understand, while all the other entries were mechanical. We all felt like that wasnt in the spirit of the competition but I guess we were all wrong! I too prefer old school solid mechanical engineering and design.

[@mrmimeisfunny]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="25">0:25</a> Microprocessors aren't interesting? You definitely haven't seen Ben Eater's 6502 Computer video series.

[@Packbat]

mrmimeisfunny Honestly, this reminds me a little of Ben Eater's breadboard 8-bit computer series - this stuff with the relays seems to be happening at the same level of not-abstraction. That said, the thing about the order of switches being pressed and released reminded me of the timing diagrams video from the 6502 series for sure.

[@PainterVierax]

yeah this intro bothered me too. As if between electro-mechanical logic and microcontrollers there wasn't TTL and CMOS discrete logics that don't need any code writting.

[@flatfingertuning727]

Many people regard things they can see moving as way cooler than than electronics that just sit there.

[@SoftBreadSoft]

I dont think he thinks computers are uninteresting, just less interesting. I think its both interesting in different ways. How the same things, more or less, could be achieved with switches clacking based on other switches clacking. Its fascinating how far we come in so short a time. Electro mechanics are more interesting in that term of implementation. But electronics are fascinating because of the sheer complexity were able to fit on a chip with less mass than a dime.

[@darrennew8211]

@@PainterVierax The original PONG game you could plug into your home was like this. No CPU, no software, just a bunch of discrete logic.

[@WolfJustWolf]

I was expecting "Never gonna give you up" to play at the end. Guess i've been on the internet too long again.

[@TheThomasites]

I love legacy tech. It's what I learned on and what I love to fix.

[@harveyhandbanana]

I know this may seem like a massive left field comparison but many of the systems in this jukebox operate in a similar fashion to how a garbage truck operates. Switches everywhere interrupting functions at the end of their respective cycles. I will say most if not all operate with the help of a plc or small simple computer these days but the processes were handled by similar relays and switches for many years before any high tech came into the picture. Very informative and very mind jogging especially for someone who works in the refuse industry. I love your content thank you

[@drew657]

I've got a 1964 Magnavox all-in-one turntable stereo cabinet, and rebuilding the automatic turntable gave me a huge appreciation of mid-century engineering. A single motor with various "armatures" and gear reductions runs the entire thing, including searching for a record, starting, stopping, and changing a record, and turning off when the stack is all played. It's brought about a whole new meaning to building a playlist.

[@joeydurant6267]

Yup. They could do a lot... A metric fuck tonne if you will... With that one motor and some clever gearing, a few pulleys and tensioners.... It's amazing to see stuff like that... When there's only one motor like that it really is like watching something come to life. Watching the transfer of energy and motion... It's really satisfying on a deep cognitive level... Like the opposite of cognitive dissonance.