Ted Hughes: Force of Nature

BBC Close Up
Broadcast 25 December 1998

[@21stCen]

Ted Hughes is a literary genius, I know. But introducing his poems to students of all ages doesn’t work particularly well. I suppose some poets come and go with fashion...

[@sarasmith2648]

Eh... I believe Sylvia, though very talented, was indeed difficult to get along with, hard to be married to, etc. I also believe she fully intended to kill herself. She had serious attempts before she even met Ted. But I find this documentary a little irritating. From what I understand, Ted was absolutely not an angel. Women found him very sexually attractive and he indulged in that. So that one lady in this doc talking about Ted “running for his life...” like he was running from crazy Sylvia...maybe he was, but I think he also just flat out enjoyed sex. And maybe at the time thought the grass looked greener with Assia, when she ended up doing the same thing (worse really; she also killed their daughter.) Seems like Ted liked nutty women, and also was a flirt to boot. Not trying to make Sylvia sound like the perfect hero, just throwing it out there that Ted made his own mistakes.

[@joeannchaney1219]

The most sensible and objective comment posted. Everyone knew that Ted loved the ladies.

[@christianealshut1123]

Ted Hughes may have "loved women" but it is also true that he really could not be fully committed to one woman. I think he was close to with Sylvia Plath, and I do eben think he honestly wanted to reconcile with her. But would he have stopped cheating after that? in all likelihood not. With Assia, he basically repeated the same mistake as with Sylvia, plus he did not intervene when his parents and particularly his father started treating her as a homewrecker and an interloper and refused even to sit at the same table with her. He cheated on Assia with other women too, and he also had other sdide relationships while he was married to his second wife, Carol. And he was skilled at playing those women off against each other. I think a lot has been written about Sylvia Plath's mental illness (which was in all likelihood hereditary) and that has frequently been used to exculpate Ted Hughes from her death. Yes, I am aware that mentally ill people can be "difficult to get along with" or "to be married to" but this taken for itself does not justify cheating - even if Ted Hughes had not known about Sylvia's mental history before thge marriage and only found out afterward, thereofre perhaps feeling duped or railroaded. So does anyone here know whether Ted Hughes knew of this fact before he married Sylvia, or only learned afterwards? I would find it reasonable to assume that she perhaps remained silent about this at first because she wanted to "secure him", but is there any concrete evidence either way? The fact is that two women he was with committed suicide and even in Sylvia's case one can only partly ascribe this to mental illness or neurosis. Speaking of mental illness and neurosis, once had better have a look at Ted Hughes himself and about the family structure he grew up in. Having an elder sister who could not bear any woman in his life probably did not help him much - Olwyn ,literally HATED Sylvia because she saw her as an interloper for her brother's as well as her parents' affection; she could not bear the thought of her being accepted as another daughter in the family also. Sylvia at one point used the term "incest" to characterizse the relationship between brother and sister, which I believe is a little bit on the harsh side - I believe Ted and Olwyn never did the "Jamie and Cersei thing", but Sylvia was certainly aware that Olwyn had been overstpepping some boundaries.

[@rlabarbera]

The thing that makes me lose all sympathy for Ted is how he left her and 2 babies in the coldest winter ever in London. As a man, he disgusts me. I can't respect a man that abandons his children and responsibilities like that.

[@CarolineChiasson]

Rita Labarbera I couldn’t agree more!

[@orangeiceice12]

Fair enough. My guy did dally a little bit. He really loved Sylvia, and wanted to help her, as you see in the Witchdoctor poem from Birthday Letters. Things might have been different had he been more mature in his understanding of people, especially women, and relationships. She was unhappy, in his shadow, and having moved to Britain, just to be the sole American lady. A Alvarez, in his book "Savage God," recounts telling Sylvia one of her poems was trash when she came to visit him, a week before the deed. He was one of her sole friendly acquaintances in Britain. There were a lot of factors. She felt isolated. She had psychological and emotional issues. Her husband was a young man, loved by women and idolized by a growing public, used to solving things with his charm, brawn, or brains, and probably felt frustrated at her unhappiness. That probably fueled their breakup, and Ted's finding shelter in the other woman's arms, which, at least partly, helped fuel her attempt. Although I have read some details which suggest she intended to survive the attempt, as she had the previous two times, I think that Ted probably bears some of the blame. Not the brunt of it, not enough to turn the public, or feminist authors, against him for three decades, but don't we all bear some blame in life?

[@thomassimmons1950]

These people were human beings and artists; not bucking for sainthood. Judge the work, not the man or woman. It's funny how for all the so called progress, enlightenment and liberation of the current fashion, people still behave like medieval Inquisitors.

[@CarolineChiasson]

29:00 “I think she wanted to be saved, she put her head in the over at 6am when she knew someone was due to arrive at 9am”. Hmm 🤔 Three hours is quite the gap to be hoping to be saved. This doc is nuts at times.

[@medes5597]

She told three different people to check on her at 6:15am, and all were delayed. The doctor didn't arrive til 9am, but he was due between 6 and 6:30. Sylvia was just desperate for help and didn't know how to ask for it.

[@pollinseclectic8254]

Read Ted Hughes' poetry, then read it again then again. Hughes is much more than a brilliant poet, he takes you by the hand and enables you to enter a world that most people only see through a closed car window, if at all. Today with the planet, nature around us and the giant oceans being buffeted over and over by mankind's deeds it is so refreshing to read and llisten to these poems. That's all that matters, not how many women he bedded, or how suicidal Plath was before she met him. Return to the words the poetry

[@johnasticot]

Read it and keep reading it. He towers above most writers. I had his Collected Poems for years, plus a CD of him reading a selection of his work. Extraordinary stuff.

[@kendn01]

Germaine Greer is so unkind, so cruel, so ruthless in her assessment of Plath, it is completely off-putting. I find myself fast-forwarding through her remarks because they are so extreme.

[@Wanapelei]

This.

[@jonathanmelia]

Or maybe she’s just filled with legitimate guilt over how she vilified Hughes in the first place, and that’s something you don’t want to hear.

[@steampoweredpixel]

RIP A. Alvarez 😞

[@chabeloesdios]

oh no :(

[@billdenbrough501]

Thank you for posting this!

[@yonathanasefaw9001]

It's hard to believe that Ted Hughes has been dead for 21 years. How sad. He is one my favourite poets next to Pablo Neruda.

[@simonperry8569]

Simon ArmItage's hair! Like a cross between a Benedictine monk and The Inspiral Carpets.

[@AnthonyMonaghan]

Yeah...but his poetry is excellent. Makes up for his 'baggy' hair.

[@medes5597]

​@@AnthonyMonaghanI think they intended their commentary on his hair as a compliment. His work doesn't need to make up for anything.

[@applejellypucci]

Reminds me of a lover I once had, said he loved but had such a fucked up way of showing it.

[@CarolineChiasson]

“A suicide note is not a major work... and in the end, that’s what we got”. Ouch!

[@anamorales3722]

This documentary is so inaccurate and siding with Ted, Sylvia was the victim of a constantly unfaithful man and the morality of the time. She should have got a divorce in the US and keep on writing.

[@jonathanmelia]

You do know her daughter, Frieda, would disagree with you? “Thousands of people have affairs every year,” she said. “How often does it end in suicide? Hardly ever. The reality was my mother was very ill, and the treatment she was getting was only making her worse.”

[@frugalwitch]

Sylvia and Assia and his daughter Shura’s deaths

[@D4n1t0o]

I thoroughly enjoyed this. It seems a suitable redress of the false narrative played out in the name of the furtherance of certain ideologies. In my university days, I had to give up mentioning my love of Hughes, the backlash was so swift and numerous.

[@tiosurcgib]

A very touching righting.

[@CitrineDream]

Thanks for posting this!

[@AnthonyMonaghan]

Thank you for uploading this documentary about this very much misunderstood and maligned man. A brilliant poet, a brilliant mind. and a brilliant Yorkshireman.

[@21stCen]

Yes, thank you for your comment. I agree with all of this. I was reading about the new book on Plath's letters earlier and Hughes is definitely the one that comes out of the relationship best, despite the feminists still valorising Plath and not seeing her as the affirmation-seeking narcissist that she was. Hughes might have been the careerist- Plath thought he looked like a 'Yorkshire God' when he did his first reading in New York- relying too much on Plath for this element to begin with perhaps. Though equally Plath thought of herself and Hughes as 'we' or a single entity and could not fathom them being apart as Hughes's reputation grew and the marriage broke down. It's sad but what could Hughes do in response to Plath's depraved madness without it escalating? I think Birthday Letters is a scathing indictment on Plath's personality and is probably the best poetry ever written.

[@study346]

@@21stCen and what about the truth? The truth about his adultry?

[@21stCen]

The paranoid Targaryen The truth is that Plath was in denial about Hughes and Wevill. She was embittered and nobody liked her for it. She was overly theatrical since the day she met Hughes. How could Hughes deal with someone like that?

[@AnthonyMonaghan]

@@study346 So he should be castigated for the rest of his life because he had an affair? Grow up. There's two sides to every story. Ted ultimately had nothing to do with her suicide. It is always more complicated than simply blaming someone else, but that is what people do, they judge and blame to satisfy their own needs for understanding.

[@ayshazaheen3402]

Twenty-First Century Fudge so just because the woman was theatrical, cheating is justified? Sylvia was ill for most of her life and he couldn’t take up with the pressure. Let’s confess, both of them had issues, one more than the other. There’s no need to make either of them seem like hero because none of them were.

[@bobsgirl100]

Well who else was gonna get her work out? Asia was very very mentally ill before her suicide.

[@AishwaryaPratimRabha]

🚀

[@BrianJosephMorgan]

Fascinating.

[@kurisensei]

Does anyone know the gentle classical music playing throughout? Thanks for the upload.

[@21stCen]

Either, kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2HafpKoosiai80 or, kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zn2pmmWQpNtmq5I

[@kurisensei]

Twenty-First Century Fudge thanks a lot! But... unfortunately, I can’t see them in my country. The second one is called River II, is that right? Can’t see a name for the first one. Anyway thanks again!

[@21stCen]

walkfromthewaves 1. Writing Montage-Balanescu Quartet; 2. The River II-David Darling & Ketil Bjørnstad

[@kurisensei]

Twenty-First Century Fudge wonderful, thanks so much!

[@ThomasWilkinsont]

The thought fox from 13:09 to 17:00

[@WitoldBanasik]

I do apologize for bringing this up but Ted Hughes- British Royal Poet Laureate- appears to me like another embodiment of the Dr. Heckyl and Mr. Hyde syndrom. Having been a poet myself I can't entirely disconnect Hughes as an artist- however prophetical, brilliant and passionate he might prove to be- from the horrible persona that he proved to be in real life; I mean certainly his egomaniac behavior and lack of sympathy towards Sylvia Plath and towards his second partner who committed suicide as well a couple of years later. Ted admitted somehow cynically that the death of Sylvia had been unavoidable (sic!), because of her alleged mental illness; while the passing of his second almost-to-be wife could have been preventable- what a megaloman ! Well, William Shakespeare led an exemplary life privately, van Gogh, Newton and Sylvia Plath were at least decent people, yet at times difficult personas to be with. Ted Hughes was kind of a human insensitive individual in private life. I hardly managed to get through his poetry... he is one of very few men of letters I can't find likable. I know, I am sort of biased and intolerant literary critic. True. That's why I have been preferring writing to reading.. at least since 1990. I leave an extensive reading to the other professional critics and poetry aficionados- with all due respect. "One must be drunken with poetry, wine or... whatever- in order to oppose the pressure of time..." Agreed 100% Mr. Baudelaire !

[@niamhmckinney4027]

He was selfish. Would Sylvia, mother of two babies, have left Ted, ill with flu, stuck in the countryside with those two babies in order to conduct an affair? The idea is laughable. His behaviour had catastrophic effects whether that was his intention or not. As a mother of five small kids, I know caring for small children is no joke. It's not something anyone breezes through. Yet he felt it reasonable to run off to London with Assia Wevill leaving everything on Sylvia's shoulders. However difficult her personality could be (and I have no doubt she was difficult, as many highly creative, intelligent people are) he made the commitment to her and gave her babies. It all became too real then (babies make everything too real!) and off he flew. His poetry never spoke to me really. I certainly don't consider him a genius, the way Sylvia did. She certainly was though. .

[@Andy-lm2zp]

@Witold W. Banasik I like your essay !

[@MatinaLiosi-o3d]

❤

[@treyblake1]

Does anyone know how I can get a copy of the Hughes documentary Stronger Than Death ? Seems so weird it isn't available on dvd and dsnt seem to be on KZbin ....x

[@21stCen]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpOkeJWgjbV2hpo

[@21stCen]

The video is unavailable on copyright claims unfortunately

[@paulrilke9379]

@@21stCen not anymore I'm watching it right now

[@21stCen]

Gil Mckinless This is very true!

[@paulrilke9379]

@@21stCen enjoy! good documentary. Im not sure your reasons for watching but id recommend shakespeare and the complete goddess of being by hughes, its tremendous