TEDxSussexUniversity - Lynne Murphy - American and British Politeness

LYNNE MURPHY is Senior Lecturer in Linguistics in the School of English, University of Sussex. Her research concerns what we know when we know words, and stretches to how non-linguistic knowledge and behaviour affect our use of words. Raised and educated in the US, Murphy lived in South Africa in the 1990s and has been in England since 2000. Her observations on the Englishes of these places (and the linguistics behind them) are chronicled in the blog Separated by a Common Language. Her books include Semantic Relations and the Lexicon and Lexical Meaning, both published by Cambridge University Press.

[@gregorybrian]

Great content. Odd choices for lighting and camera angle. It's as if the TED production crew decided to shoot this at the very last moment from beneath stage level or from very far away, on the extreme side of the house.

[@The6milphil]

Looks like a David Lynch influence.

[@jhschmidMD4]

Very balanced breakdown of something not well understood by people on either side of the Atlantic. Very much enjoyed this, and learned from it as well. Thanks!

[@denamarie19]

Thanks for this! I'm an American married to an Englishman and so often feel labeled rude! I don't know how many times I've tried (and failed) to explain by saying, "but we just ask in a nice way!" haha. Great job.

[@Lukos0036]

You are an American dear. It doesn't matter how much you explain or kowtow. They will hate you on principal.

[@danielabize1398]

on "principle" not on "principal"... are you British?

[@ktkee7161]

@@danielabize1398 They can't spell whoever they are. It's not true all British people hate Americans, it's quite mixed. Maybe love hate? (like a lot of other places)

[@GalileoFigar0]

The airlines ought to screen this seminar during the last half hour of transatlantic flights.

[@friendlyneighbourhoodanarc3039]

As a Canadian, I watch this and feel like we try to employ both types of politeness simultaneously. For example, I find it intensely uncomfortable being complimented, I have been conditioned that it is rude to not accept a compliment, but also rude to not downgrade the compliment...I hate being complimented. I'm much, much more comfortable with being insulted. That's how I know I'm having a comfortable, genuine, easy going conversation. I also have family in both the USA and UK, so my family could be an extreme example in this regard

[@Arkiasis]

Canadian here and the part of "Being complimented is awkward because they noticed something and that could be an invasion of your privacy." got me. Forever I've felt uncomfortable and I didn't know why, but that's why. And then the part of "British just say 'oh thank you' and move on." is me exactly, I say thank you and move on. For me that's polite. But an American might see that as rude since that was an invitation for conversation or to talk about yourself.

[@ktkee7161]

@@Arkiasis Canada is interesting, being next door to America but historically British influenced, which culture do you think it is closer to?

[@animefangz]

Interesting video! I'm from the U.S. and i haven't noticed this level of "Thank You"...but tomorrow when i go to school i'm going to listen to my, and others, conversations. Because usually there is just one "Thank You" or "Thanks" from each person at the end of what you were saying if they helped you in any way..

[@SarahPings]

Superb talk. Thank you! I teach GCSEs to international students, the majority of whom are Chinese and Russian and who have quite different politeness systems to ours. They are often accused of being impolite/rude/ungracious when really they are just failing to say 'thank you' a gazillion times a day. I've noticed how teachers and admin staff will bully international students into making the response, rather than teaching them that in most situations it is just a form of linguistic punctuation.

[@ktkee7161]

China and Russia are interesting, particularly now. Do you still do this job? It made me think what is politeness and what are manners. Should we only judge by actions rather than words? I still think how you speak is important, because that's the only brief interaction you'll have with most people, and if it's a pleasant one it makes you feel good, if it isn't vice versa.

[@Ainennke]

Thank you. A very good explanation of something that's very useful for increasing our understanding of all cultures.

[@karemortensen7548]

Once one of my colleagues was moving heavy things all by herself. I felt bad, so I politely asked, “Do you need a hand?” That’s one way to ask if she needs help. She looked up angrily and barked at me, “A hand? I have two hands!” I gave a nervous smile, mumbled, “Of course, sorry”, turned away, and kept my mouth shut. Since then I stopped using that expression “need a hand”. We have a Japanese colleague. If anybody asks, “How are you, Dr. Takagi?”, he becomes very uncomfortable with suspicion, and asks back, “Why?” So we have dropped general polite greetings with him. I had some non-English-speaking colleagues, things got more weird/ridiculous with them. They ask me, “How are you?”, I respond, “I am fine. Thank you. How about yourself?” They get very offended. One of them thought, “How about yourself” means “not your damn business”. Another guy thought, it means “What is that to you?”. A woman thought, it means “Go F- yourself”. Politeness is highly overrated.

[@tanival1668]

Great comment which I am coming across rather late! It just shows how important it is to keep an open mind in multi-cultural contexts. In a situation such as with the Japanese man not understanding why you are saying “How are you?” but inviting an explanation, that there is the opening for intercultural exchange and understanding. In a few seconds, he would understand how the phrase is used (more a courtesy marker than genuine desire to know the answer) and that it is quite different to the translation in Japanese, which is really only used to enquire after someone’s state of health (literally).

[@luckhurstrobert]

Thank you so much for this, it was really awesome! I love your accent floating in mid-Atlantic somewhere North of the Azores. Thank you! Cheers... Bye for now :)

[@Vidiot1955]

Terrific little presentation, Ms. Murphy. As an American, I'm going to limit myself to one thank you. Thank you. (Sorry ... that was two thank yous.)

[@nigelogilvie9450]

And a "sorry" ... very British.

[@janaaj1an889]

Thank you, Lynne! You've mentioned it elsewhere in discussing discourse, but it all makes a lot more sense now.

[@SafetyMentalst]

When one does things right One can sleep good at night With significant other don't fight Do things right with goal in sight One gets there sooner if polite

[@reinpost]

Fascinating lecture - I learnt some things about how I interact with others. What you're saying is that 'thank you' is really a cue that transfers initiative to the other party. The three consecutive 'thank you's make perfect sense, but only to someone who knows the usual script in a conversation like this. They are rather efficient when compared to the same exchange in, say, the Netherlands.

[@ktkee7161]

Which would be what?

[@SafetyMentalst]

When one does things right With significant other don't fight One can sleep good at night Do things right with goal in sight One gets there better being polite

[@saltynuts8529]

I tend to agree with the lecturer. Being a third party here, from the "most unfriendly" country according to the survey mentionned, I still struggle to find sincerity in the American way of over-exaggerating their approval. We have a common ground with the Brits in how we express politeness through formal greeting and thanking (apparently much less, though). Personnal compliments are also not granted lightly. When everything is at least "great" or "awesome", it sucks the substance out of words with a high positive charge. At first, it can be nice, however, to meet someone who seems to be interested in you and able to "break the ice", something the Americans seem to be very competent at. It is the "overdoing" it that tends to make people feel uncomfortable. Yet, it all comes down to cultural differences.

[@ktkee7161]

Would you rather have fake politeness or honest rudeness? I hope there's a middle ground.

[@universalsubliminals1174]

@@ktkee7161 i think it's unfair to call it fake politness though. it's not really 'fake', it's how they are socialised and it's embedded in their culture to the extent that it's their norm. that's why i wouldn't call it fake. just like, i wouldn't say brits are 'rude', it's just how they're used to expressing themselves.

[@reinpost]

It's an acknowledgment; it doesn't usually indicate agreement with what is being said.

[@TheaDragonSpirit]

That's what I said. Ha. It's being polite as in that is what you are suppose to say. It's like hello and good bye. When someone does something nice you say thank you. Sincerity can be seen and it's not when someone get teary eyed or lowers the voice and moves back a little. Sincerity is when the person then acts more loving towards the person without realising there doing it. That's when you know it's sincere. When the person goes out there way for you without realising. Not out of obligation.

[@yonakim4792]

Keep Calm And Thank You !

[@lenevener]

That was seriously awesome! Thank you ;)

[@Nacevedop]

The "thank you" thing happens so much in Chile as well haha very interesting talk.

[@auntiecarol]

Cheers, yeah, ta, thanks, brilliant. Smashing. Cheers again. 'K, Thanks bye. Bye-by, then. Is the only acceptable way to end a conversation in Britland.

[@youThadz12]

Perfect breakdown of face theory! Did anyone else hear satan himself chuckle at 16:30 ??

[@ewetubaful]

Interesting stuff, why thank you :-)

[@ready4ai]

Very interesting!

[@garfieldmeateater]

The English aren't German, purely anyway, the Saxons were one of many people ingrained into the English ethnicity

[@MimiStraw1]

A cascade of reflections upon past interactions provoked - both US and UK, especially one of the latter that did not go well, thank you very much! Now I know why. Nonverbal Ta = stronger message. You did not say much about "Please" which is sometimes perfunctory politeness, sometimes recognition of effort required in granting the request, sometimes pathetic plea. Occasionally, it's tantamount to a surrender of power; the one using the word does NOT have it. Hence egalitarian US omission (?)

[@BookFreakyTube]

People mistake being friendly with being polite. British people are very polite, but not very friendly. We have this stiff-upper-lip attitude, the cold mood and the irony, it all with proper etiquette though.

[@davejones5747]

Nah, Brits are often deliberately rude. Their "negative face" is often much much bigger than their "positive face". I do find it amusing to hear Brits claim to be polite, even immediately after they've said something that's obviously terribly rude.

[@ktkee7161]

@@davejones5747 Where are you from? And who has ever claimed British people are friendly? (Although I have seen many American & foreign tourists say we are)

[@donquixotedoflamingo5510]

"Stiff-upper-lip" is not really a thing outside of the old generation these days. It's mostly a southern English attitude that didn't start in England up until the 19 century. Before that the English were seen as "Passionate Emotional Barbarians" by mainland Europeans.

[@HeadlightMorningGlow]

16:30 - 16:35, is incredibly creepy when listening through earphones!

[@Aritul]

So interesting. I can't think of many exchanges that I've had with Russian or Chinese speakers, so I can't accuse them of being impolite. I have, however, worked with many a Latin American and gotten silently annoyed when they commanded things without saying a please ie "Let me borrow your computer."

[@gusnawatygusnawaty4727]

Inspiring very much… thank you Lol

[@reinpost]

Well, that can be faked, too. What fascinates me about the lecture is how it illuminates the role of protocol, of pragmatics, in human communication.

[@SirDerpingston]

Oh, she's that american math persin from numberphile. I love her voice.

[@marvwatkins7029]

What its her field, exactly?

[@havesomecoffeeand6085]

But the thing is only 40,000 people have watched this; what about the rest millions of people? who will tell them?

[@TheaDragonSpirit]

Saying thank you doesn't mean you accept it. It just means your being polite.

[@AurYouReading]

As an American, I feel like I say "thank you" a lot. On the phone at work, I'll say it at almost every pause when the other person is doing something. Ending phone conversations is so awkward as well. Thank you. Thank you. Have a nice day. You as well. Thank you....

[@carowells1607]

I do too. And I wish I hadn't had that "thank you" mentality drilled into me as a child. I often find myself thanking people who, in reality, should be thanking me. I guess I'm a little bit British in that way. Thank you!

[@animefangz]

Mostly depends on the person. There are some who spam "Thank yous" and others, like me, who spam kindness in general :)

[@Aritul]

What did you notice?

[@TheaDragonSpirit]

German because the queen is German.

[@marvwatkins7029]

Too much background colours: most distracting.

[@willman85]

There is a world of difference between 'thank you' and 'thanks' and IMO they shouldn't be lumped together as 'thanking behaviours'. 'Thanks' is like 'cheers' or 'please' or 'ta'. They can both mean 'good/nice-of-you-to-ask', but I think 'thank you' in this particular context perhaps is to disguise curtness when the speaker wants to be rude without being rude explicitly.

[@gourukemu]

16:30 wtf? is he ok, thank you.

[@bruh-bn3ni]

summoned a damn demon

[@alepine1986]

This is surprisingly applicable to differences in politeness between US and English Canada.

[@sarahmarchant2353]

that's funny lol love it

[@2Cerealbox]

They lit her face like a horror movie.

[@Aritul]

I thought it was interesting that politeness in America emphasizes positive face interaction since Americans tend to be individualistic. One would have thought that Americans would value negative face interactions more since they tend to emphasize the desire to act unimpeded or to be a free agent.

[@MrVidification]

that repetitive thankyou should always be sincerely followed by a Glasgow smile or kiss

[@sarahmarchant2353]

the please and thank u thing is very big in the deep south along with yes ma'ma and no sir stuff like that most European tourists go to northern states and i'm not saying northerners are out right rood. people need to see the southern and western or eastern half of the USA are customs and foods and accents are a little different from each other

[@ktkee7161]

Do people still call each other sir and maam? That blows English people away!

[@Lukos0036]

Well England also has a culture of Irony and sarcasm that Americans find...exhausting. It's cute in small doses but over time from every source with every limy you meet trying to "take the piss" out of you or your country or your culture it gets exceedingly tiresome and makes them look like jerks. And there are so many countries that take their social ques from England that they all do it. "Oh well aren't you a big boy mister super power fancy pants twat" or whatever, at even the slightest perceived provocation. And often without any provocation at all. It really is quite rude. But no one calls them out on it or lets them know that sort of behavior is intolerable.

[@TheaDragonSpirit]

Maybe it can be faked too... but if people faked this to people every day I don't think anyone would give a crap so long as they kept doing it and expected nothing from it... which in effect would be pointless to fake.

[@Yoda628]

Angry zombie or something...

[@markhanson6563]

Why DO British people pronounce "PRIVACY" as "privassy" ? It's not spelled "PRIVVACY", blocking the effect of the 'A' in the 'I'. How do they pronounce 'PRIVATE" or "PIRACY"??

[@AngeloTelesforo]

British phonetics are closer to Romance phonetics. The insulation of Americans changed a lot of that.

[@markhanson6563]

AngeloTelesforo Egads, the Continent?? I say! I'm in Canada, inbetween BrE and AmE. Thanks for the Reply, eh! ;)

[@yurismir1]

AngeloTelesforo Could you explain how "British phonetics" (i.e. the phonetics of all the varieties of English spoken in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland combined) are closer to "Romance phonetics" (i.e. the phonetics of all the varieties of Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese, etc. combined)? Do they not aspirate fortis plosives? Do they give lenis plosives full voicing? Do they not reduce unstressed vowels? I don't understand.

[@peterx7923]

+M Hanson Why do we pronounce the word correctly? Is that what you're asking (sorry, I need to say "erse-king")?

[@luminousmoon86]

If you knew anything about lingusitics, you'd know that Brits don't pronounce words "correctly", or the way they were originally said. The reason why so many words are pronounced differently between American and British English, is that some time after the American colonies were founded, British people started pronouncing words differently because y'all wanted to sound rich and snotty. This is true. Your upper classes started dropping their Rs, and changing the way they spoke, and that way became what was taught in schools. Brits in the early 17th century probably sounded much more like Americans in their pronunciation of words.

[@HeadlightMorningGlow]

English people are German = we're Anglo-Saxons, both Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes. Enjoyed the lecture, hope to see more.

[@ktkee7161]

Overly simplistic.

[@anthonyo5363]

Somewhere in my family tree a Mueller pops up. Apparently fled from Germany during a world war and settled in England, changing their name to Mole to fit in better(like the accent didn't give it away......) Then there is the Dane side, which kinda explains the red tint in the beard. One of my ancient ancestors was arrested for being drunk and disorderly and brawling in the streets of Jamestown VA. Explains a lot.

[@marvwatkins7029]

She clearly likes to eat.

[@marvwatkins7029]

She needs a new hairstyle.

[@gabrielaalarcon6101]

I'm American too, not from the US but from one of the countries of the continent called America, and politeness is very very different in each part of the continent, so please people from the United States, stop monopolize the continent!!

[@peterx7923]

This is awful.

[@davejones5747]

Wise Peter This is an understandable comment from someone like you, who has established a clear hatred of all Americans. Obviously this particular talk is not for you.

[@peterx7923]

It's quite simple. The educated Ebglish pronounce their language correctly. Any other version is incorrect. Get over it, yanks.

[@carowells1607]

It seems the educated Ebglish need better edumacation.