Tekken 8's Input Buffer is NOT Broken

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/ gelatinlab
Many long time Tekken players have asked me why the input Buffer feels so off in Tekken 8. After doing some digging, I've learned that while the input buffer itself is fine, there's something else that is seriously harming our ability to time inputs...
➽ TIME STAMPS:
0:00 → Introduction
0:21 → Input buffer definition
0:40 → Tekken 8 input buffer
1:43 → Tekken 7 input buffer
2:01 → Big change in Tekken 8
3:07 → Revisiting the original clip
3:27 → Affects all aspects of play
---
Music (in order of appearance):
Cave Story - Geothermal
Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones - 9 Ways Distant

[@Zoyar]

Great video, but there is actually 1 significant change in tekken 8 buffer: if you buffer f and neutral input for ff moves and it works in this way: after recovery is finished, first F from buffer is already executed and first input will be neutral, even if you hold F, then second input will be the button that you're holding. This way you can do ff move by doing f,n,f(hold) and just pressing attack input on 2nd frame after recovery which makes it easier (it doesnt work in tekken 7). same method lets you buffer the whole backdash, in recovery by doing b, n, (hold)B and u will always do backdash at first possible frame (also only in tekken 8)

[@GelatinLabs]

Interesting! I wasn’t aware of this and I’ll be sure to test it as soon as I can. Thank you for the info!

[@AZYG4LYFE]

I think this is why I get a lot of bb+4's from my BDC'ing as Lee instead of my usual b+4, I thought as much it was a system change!

[@Alsry1]

@@AZYG4LYFEI quit doing that and just do a forward back motion instead

[@AZYG4LYFE]

@@Alsry1 I do that indeed, and even an ss as an alternative

[@Jamazed]

Would this mean that a 12 frame ff2 can never punish a -12 on block move though? Since the first frame after recovery is automatically reserved for neutral?

[@JZR]

Thanks for this! Helps to explain the issue many of us have had

[@alexanderdoherty902]

I’m still a newbie for the most part, and learning the game is fun! But I can definitely feel the pain you would go through with certain frame changes and stuff like that due to muscle memory😢

[@mzg147]

The quality of your videos is soo great, Tekken community is blessed, thank you!

[@Buznik_]

Man said "literal skill issue" and brought receipts to prove it

[@TheRadioSquare]

Did you not watch the video past the first two minutes? It's not that long.

[@Buznik_]

@@TheRadioSquare Sure I did. Muscle memory is a learned skill and the veterans have a slight issue with it after the transition to T8 so they need to adjust to compensate.

[@TheRadioSquare]

@@Buznik_ No attention span or reading comprehension, poor boy.

[@595no]

​@@TheRadioSquareComment is not wrong.

[@abominationdesolation8322]

@@Buznik_ Maybe Tate just feels like shit and it's not fun to get skilled at sluggish garbage?

[@FahmiZFX]

2 technical Tekken videos back to back? Subbed and alerted. We need those, and we are grateful for these.

[@Srry4RollingRocking]

Awesome stuff. Would love to see a similar video breaking down the new netcode in 8 and how it's different from 7.

[@MrDizee9]

Very clear explanations. I knew something was quite bizarre in my gameplay sometimes. Now I know why, thanks

[@Narokkurai]

You know what I really really want in Tekken 8? The frame data timeline from SF6. That thing is incredible and makes it instantly clear where your input mistakes are because you can see right on the bar where your opponent's recovery frames end and where your active frames begin. Combos, frame traps, meaty setups all become 10x more intuitive and consistent, and while the frame counter in Tekken is nice, it just doesn't compare to the clear visuals of SF6's timeline.

[@simpson6700]

maybe we'll get it as DLC /s

[@TokiXam]

Exceptionnal video. Thank you for your work. I KNEW something wasn't right.

[@dejuanharris5012]

This explains alot of things! One thing i noticed before watching this video is that DVJ is affected by this change the most. His 3+4 FLY stance in T7 had an auto block feature(removed in T8). The recovery frames also affect him negatively(thank gawd) because in T7 you had a few frame where you could input an attack while hes falling back to ground. Id opt for you to try this yourself.

[@OmAFiKKa]

Great video just like the last ones! I love your editing aswell as the details you point out ❤

[@Spiriax]

Thanks for the info, Gelatin. I hadn't noticed any of this, but it's good to know.

[@huffee]

thanks a lot for these videos, i love when people explore the more minor details of fighting game mechanics it's extremely helpful since i only really played 2D fgs and tekken is... really weird

[@GelatinLabs]

As a longtime Tekken enjoyer, I can confidently say Tekken is the most esoteric mainstream fighting game out there. I'm just happy to help!

[@leemassey6054]

Subbed! I knew the timing felt different with the buffer window! Great video!

[@Ghirlanda]

10/10 video, you have an amazing format with interesting topics

[@novikovPrinciple]

Love the video and the info too, but I'm just specifically commenting to appreciate the fact that you used Cave Story OST for this. I love that game to bits.

[@NoobyNoon]

This is a very useful video idea that there isn’t much talk about. Might have been able to get into a little more detail about things that aren’t bufferable, but still a very good entry point. When I was getting into the game learning Paul during the beta and T7, deathfist felt like it would never come out. But it’s all because the quarter circle motion is a wave dash, and wave dashes can’t be buffered. It took me a LONG time to figure that out, which is crazy considering how old T7 is

[@StarScreamX]

Man this is a QUALITY video. Keep up bro you're a hero

[@IANDURBECK]

This video is amazing and really helps us understand the game itself a lot better! Thank you

[@Chizek]

thanks for the great video again, always learn something new

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

This is super useful information, thank you for the good presentation 🙏

[@Alexman208GR]

What a wonderful video. Thanks so much for making it!

[@palmleafcooking]

Great job, excellent presentation and research.

[@El-Burrito]

This video is amazing, thank you for sharing all of this information!

[@Lakesworth]

Amazing video, good stuff man.

[@Parodyyyy93]

Great video. Thank you for looking into this 💪

[@superbro6413]

I LOVE when people get into the guts of these games to see how they actually function Keep doing what you do, there's not nearly enough out there on the platform doing this

[@KingOfLegends23-qb7my]

Intriguing information you've found. This makes a lot of sense to me

[@Pan_Z]

Concise and answers everything. Thank you.

[@Ymyeh-lr8wj]

Hmmm I'm no veteran but I feel it. I really do. Here I was chocking up to input lag and online, apparently not.

[@bobbill4257]

It’s the exact same thing as T7 only a timing difference. This only affects people who played tekken 7 and are doing the same timing as they did in that game because of their muscle memory. If you aren’t a veteran T7 player you are not messing up for any reason other than you just need to practice the timing. Idk what you mean by you “feel it”. You shouldn’t have any muscle memory if you didn’t play T7.

[@Ymyeh-lr8wj]

@@bobbill4257 I have 2000hrs of tekken 7 and I'm at tekken king ranks. I think I used the word veteran in a different way. I meant I'm no pro but I do play. My bad.

[@valeoncat13]

@@Ymyeh-lr8wj I would def call you a "veteran" at that point lol. That's a lot of time and dedication to a fighting game, pro or not.

[@Ymyeh-lr8wj]

@@valeoncat13 I guess it does lol. I just never thought of it that way 😅

[@bobbill4257]

@@Ymyeh-lr8wj ah ok I understand. Hope I didn’t come across aggressively. Just wanted to make sure any new tekken players don’t drop the game bcs they think the game isn’t functioning properly.

[@Qneetsa]

Great video! Love your content

[@timurdalabayev5439]

Amazing video. Thanks a lot

[@KennyKennTV]

This is actually really important info

[@rizqiefajar]

1:04 This explains why I couldn't get my while running move out easily like in Tekken 7. It makes sense now, thanks

[@nelly007]

I was wondering why this T8 game feels so clonky! I would do regular T7 timings and the move wouldn't come out! Great video!!!

[@Exx]

TIL. I'm learning so much about Tekken!

[@beyheter]

Wow very cool informational video thank you

[@CharacterCrisisTV]

Much appreciated insight!

[@DragonflySwamp]

Excellent taste in music.

[@JamirBae]

Holy shit, thank you for this. this got recommended and we were wondering the same as well. if you would be so kind to post this on the tekken subreddit so more would know! as much as i want to, you should be the one to do it! i think they will appreciate it as well.

[@GelatinLabs]

I don't use Reddit very often, so I didn't think to but I suppose I could. I wouldn't mind if anyone else did, though!

[@user-ox9rr8zi1o]

Great video. Subbed

[@dupajeza1006]

Another banger video

[@DPRX99]

I had no idea!!!!! No wonder why my timing seems so off. Gonna press everything early now

[@Copperhell144]

The video's saying you have to press stuff later than you're used to - if you press early you're gonna miss even more stuff. (Unless you were acting like there was no input buffer at all before, in which case that's my b)

[@clxxdxd]

Nice vid man subbed

[@clairedurnell9234]

Great to have confirmation on this, thanks! If you have t7 and t8 on at the same time playing with the same controller, sometimes you'll get a backdash cancel in 7 but you won't in 8 and you will get a multi button input like a 1+2 or something, in 7 but not 8. Do we know any details on that?

[@You_Rage_Quit]

Great video

[@Ram2rol]

I noticed that on Yoshimitsu for example. In T7 you could do b2 and while still holding b2 you press down 1 to get 1+2 that transition into kin stance. But in T8 I need to let go of back before b2 animation finishes, otherwise b2,1 will happen instead.

[@Firelord_Ozen]

In depth Tekken 8 NETCODE video next? Would love a showcase of all settings and when each setting may prove more useful, example, Prefer Fluidity on high PING games.

[@Exeeter1234]

I can give you my assessment if you'd like, its not too long of a read..... It sucks ass

[@noFUN67]

i swear to god i though i was going crazy and i´m lagging in my brain. I always felt a little off especially with Asuka´s crushing abilities. I have a lot of Setups and i more or less always timed it like Tekken 7. Well this explains why it didnt come out even tho the frames are the same. Thanks man

[@KFGC]

good video thx for information.

[@strikemist]

Aaah it was the recovery the whole time. Gotcha. I’m still adjusting my timing. Hopefully I’ll get it all down soon

[@sweetshoez]

great vid

[@every_kyle]

Thanks for the info! Is the recovery colors part of the game or is that some fancy editing? I think it would be a great help for mastering some double EWGF combos.

[@GelatinLabs]

Under Display Settings > Player/Opponent Frame Info > Simple Display I'm glad I wasn't the only person who struggled to find this

[@wc999]

wow very well made video you should be proud

[@alikhavari4250]

Awesome work. You earned a sub 3 vids ago

[@zach4281]

banger song choice, early gba emblem music is the most nostalgic shit for me

[@sebbbi2]

Alisa hopkick had a long window for the followup. Now you have to input it asap. Also it recovers now standing. Opponent needs to learn new mucle memory for punish too. 1,2 jabs -3 on block too.

[@588Board]

Notice on day one it felt stiff but I quickly adjusted and adapted to it

[@CrimsoniteSP]

Yeah, minor adjustments can throw you off so much, lol. It's really weird how simply 1-3 frames can actually change everything.

[@MrDrumStikz]

I'll have to look into Lee's new frame data after seeing this. The timing for the combo after d3 seems slightly off to me, though I will gladly admit that it might just be rust from taking a break for a while.

[@mylinuxstruggle5495]

What feels strange is the throw break windows and trimming. I was trying to think how I'm extra good and whiff punishment in this game now it makes. Sense

[@fortisch]

have you tried buffering mist step on kazuya? or whatever forward, neutral input is called? Than pwgf would be easier.

[@rttrtt1374]

This guy is a saint

[@Valigarmanda]

I noticed this with Steve. After dck1 pickup, more frequently than I would admit the df1,2~1 input doesn't go through and instead just ends up being b1 and makes me drop the combo.

[@XtraCrispy]

I feel the same no wonder I lose all the time.

[@happy......]

Thank you

[@kvk1]

Actual tech. Thanks.

[@noelgarcia6884]

I see so i wasn't crazy 🤣 so this the GAP i been feeling, like on literally everything as in 👀 every interaction i felt just slower and more unsafe despite similar frames i felt i was getting stuck on stuff after doing actions or like buffering inputs.

[@30ajgo]

So, what are your thoughts on prioritizing fluidity and prioritizing response on rollback settings?

[@8bit_pineapple]

Hey Gelatin. Is it still possible to buffer giant swing before a dash? I was never that good at it, but can't seem to do it in T8.

[@karumakaru7689]

good talk

[@cedriclim9592]

Input Buffer IS broken. Thank you Mr. Gelatin.

[@rickyboiiiii]

Wasn't there a video about dragunov's qcb+2 still coming out even if you input input 2 super late? I'm pretty sure I saw that on twitter also and people were complaining about that input buffer

[@GelatinLabs]

Though this isn't related to the input buffer (by definition), there have certainly been massive changes to how motion inputs work. I'll take a look at these later down the line! Thanks for bringing it up!

[@MyNamesNotLars1]

What is the name of the first song used? Its slipped my mind and is bugging me lol. Good vid.

[@GelatinLabs]

Cave Story - Geothermal All songs are in the description!

[@MyNamesNotLars1]

@@GelatinLabs I must have missed it in the description. Thanks!

[@simpson6700]

i always hated the input buffer in tekken 7 and how it makes 1+2 out of a held 1 button and a late 2 press. this only happens in strings and there is nothing to assist you with a 1+2 input outside of strings. to me this is the exact opposite of what it should do. i drop my combos because i'm getting a buffered combined input and i miss things like stance changes or shoulder tackles because i pressed one of the two buttons a frame too late. do you happen to know the amount of frames i have to turn a single button into a string? i came across this video because i'm currently playing xiaoyu (never played her in 7) and the 1 doesn't come out in the f314 string. which should be an extremely easy input. i have no idea what's going on. in general i feel like i'm dropping pretty easy inputs, i even double checked if my arcade stick is causing it. i never played xiaoyu before, so it can't be the muscle memory.

[@KulaGGin]

1:10 Not only the first direction but also the neutral input can be buffered: neutral is a complete input and a cancel in the movement system, just as forward. So, in the dashes the *f,n* part of the *f,n,f* input can be buffered. This allows for an i16 f,f+2 on Dragunov, for example.

[@oZiiix]

how did you get the color overlay? it was in Tekken 7 but I can only find it in punishment training in Tekken 8

[@damakmen34]

Its under display settings, simple details/display. It removes the specific frame data tho, which sucks as you could both have the frame data and recovery colors in t7.

[@oZiiix]

@@damakmen34 thanks

[@asukauser6146]

Nice vid/explainer, but there is still something going on under the hood that eats inputs. Maybe this is what people are talking about and not necessarily the buffer system? I've noticed on several occasions Reina's cd3 not coming out when trying to hit grounded opponents post-knd even though the crouchdash happens, and the replay shows that the 3 is inputted resulting in a naked crouchdash. That's not a buffer issue (hence the crouchdash), and this is something other high-level players are speculating on since they're seeing similar stuff too, many times mid combo. Maybe it's an online thing?

[@GelatinLabs]

Now that you mention it, I feel like I've heard other Reina players complain about cd3 specifically... It's possible that move in particular has some special restriction? I'd be happy to look at any Reina replays that involve this issue, if anyone is willing to send them my way.

[@Aglimagli]

If you input the cd3 early whatsoever, e.g. the first f input gets eaten, the cd3 input will give df3, which is Reina's command crouchdash with no special sound. In those kinds of situations, check if her manual crouchdash sound can be heard (and the special visual can be seen). If not, it's likely an execution error and the command crouchdash was input. While the df3 command crouchdash cannot be buffered, slightly misstiming the completely unbufferable cd3 will result in just df3 input.

[@HinkHall]

I have to mash 3 on dragunovs d413 on tekken 8 on leverless but don’t need to on pad, dunno why. It’s not 8 frames off it’s like 2-3 but I input it barely too fast on pad and it pisses me off

[@rpgtimefire]

The changes to the input buffer made it easier to do the side steo dance.

[@shindig9000]

Beautiful

[@savioar2743]

good video

[@SuperCosmicSpaceMagnet]

idk I still feel sad for not being able to arc blast punish a rage art :( I think I just got the rhythm of a drumkit rolling down an escalator.

[@UltimateBallaPOM]

Oh, so that's how while running moves work. You can input F * in block and and then the F * F~ after recovery. This is how dash moves come out 1f greater than the start up frame from stun(F * is buffer then F on first active frame and forward+attack on second).

[@hotcoldman9793]

Amazing video. Thanks for doing the science and not stating a worthless opinion like everyone else

[@walmartian422]

I felt the timings on my combos were really off and my old muscle memory was causing me to drop shit. I haven’t noticed this as much in neutral just in combos.

[@TheAciditty]

Yeah, that explains why my stance cancel iws moves aren't coming out even if it shows that I pressed the input. Im going to fast I guess.

[@RazgrizArc]

Is there an explanatiom for this Devil Jim situation? I will try to input b,f,2,1,2 from a wave dash and sometimes the game will not register my back input so it comes out as a ff2 instead. Notation looks like: f n d df f b f+2 but the game doesnt read the b and takes it as f n d df f f Would love to know if thats a Tekken 8 change because I could swear that didnt use to happen in 7

[@GelatinLabs]

While this isn't related to the input buffer, this does seem to be a new phenomenon. I'll have to take a closer look at this! Thanks for sharing!

[@DantesDeception]

They have to bring back this color frame indicator on regular practice mode. No clue why i can only find it in replays

[@GelatinLabs]

It's under Display > Player Frame Info > Simple Display!

[@El-Burrito]

I saw a tweet of someone complaining the game ate their inputs, but they had their inputs on screen and I could see they just made an input error.

[@IAMOP]

One universal tip for Tekken 7 players What ever you want to input after the first attack, do it with delay You have a lot more time to confirm if attack hits

[@KulaGGin]

The game is actually eating and not registering inputs, though. Both games: Tekken 7 and Tekken 8 have this problem. But in Tekken 8 it's a bigger problem. It comes from a different problem. It comes from the fact that it checks for inputs at the start of each tick. The thing is that Tekken 7 ticks at 60 Hz even when your FPS is lower than 60 FPS. So when you get frame drops, your game still ticks at 60 Hz and doesn't fall behind in time compared to your opponent. The problem in Tekken 8, though, is that if you don't have constant 60 FPS and you start dropping frames, even to like 58 FPS, it makes the game run *slower* compared to your opponent that, hopefully, runns at 60 FPS. And when your game runs slower, it checks for inputs less often: because it checks for inputs only once per tick and there are less ticks per second, and also the game speed is different. Also, this makes your clients desync in time: the opponent is running at 60 FPS and you're running on 58 FPS in this example, their game runs quicker than yours. After some time, both of your games notice this problem and start to sync, this results in a visible microstuttering on the client that didn't drop any frames and is ahead in time. During this microstuttering, the game checks inputs less often just as it did for you when you was dropping frames.

[@GelatinLabs]

Very interesting! And important for everyone to know! I didn't test the impact of game performance on inputs (as the complaints I personally received didn't involve game performance), but it sounds like a major factor that could explain many player's dissatisfaction with inputs.

[@stevenhannweg1644]

I would assume since you cant disable in T8 the upscaling (for god knows reason) cant be deactivated you have hardware latency which effects imputs.

[@Brass_Heathen]

Well when you ask players to nail just frame inputs to take advantage of frames then change the timing is harsh.

[@nocturnaldjinn243]

Where is the hit analysis setting? I've been looking for it and can't find it anywhere. It's mad annoying when wanting to test stuff lol

[@GelatinLabs]

Under Display Settings > Player/Opponent Frame Info > Simple Display No clue why it got hidden there but here we are

[@eVuLeX]

the the running system is horrible. try to do a back 2 with bryan running up without getting a jet upper...does that count to the buffer system? i also dont like how u now have to run up input back and then the forwad move to not get a running move(leroys wall combo for example)

[@GelatinLabs]

Technically, it doesn't count as an input buffer issue but there have been drastic changes to the running state and input interpretation. Many of the things we used to do don't work before. As for interrupting run, you can also cancel with df if that's easier. e.g., f,f,f~df~f+3 to get "iWR" f+3 on Bryan

[@showtimefu1234]

Yea i knew something was up every time i do something my opponent like interupts and its supposed to still be my turn

[@mrpotch]

How were you able to get recovery animation in tekken 8? I know tekken 7 has it and i tried searching for it in t8 but i cant find it.

[@GelatinLabs]

Under Display Settings > Player/Opponent Frame Info > Simple Display I have no idea why it's tucked away in that menu It's not exactly the same as Recovery Animation from Tekken 7, but it's close enough

[@mrpotch]

@@GelatinLabs thank you man

[@jime269]

Thanks i thought it was my internet

[@peanutman230]

How do you Activate the recovery mode on practice in 8?

[@GelatinLabs]

Display > Player/Opponent Frame Info > Simple Display