Teletype Model 19 Part 4: Thyratron Power Supply

[@leisergeist]

Stuff from the tube era is so fascinating... Especially when it looks like it'd gladly send you across the room at any time "we don't know if the capacitors work, so we're gonna hook them up to this, this'll destroy them and then we know they don't work" That's the best description, Ken is a great geek comedian LOL

[@ThePiGuy24]

I just love how this thing looks, and it still has a cleaner output than alot of modern power supplies despite being 60-70 years old.

[@foxdavion6865]

like they said, all it would take is just a cheap low value modern capacitor added at the end of it to completely smooth it out. That just says a lot about the quality of the power supply.

[@phunkmeister]

I'm from Romania, I can confirm the magic eye grows here.

[@sobolanul96]

Yea, but they have gotten pretty rare these days.

[@redherring3110]

We know this Romania has all. From gold to magic eyes 😎

[@seanwatts8342]

I thought it was the "Hairy eye" that grows in Romania ... or is that Bulgaria?

[@adrianfrigo8373]

Sean Watts Bulgaria or Bucharest,it's the same...😎

[@seanwatts8342]

@@adrianfrigo8373 Ah, yes. Relatively speaking...

[@robertw1871]

As if it wasn’t deadly enough, the adjustment pot is directly between two giant fuses, nice! 👍

[@trevorvanbremen4718]

2000's era cars instructyou not to drink the content of the battery. 1950's era cars instruct you how to adjust the valve lash.

[@MLX1401]

Still my no.1 favourite episode on this channel. Holding breath, waiting for that relay to click...and then: the overwhelming joy when it does and tubes start to conduct. Loving also that oohmoment with the Heathkit and the tour-de-succee at the end with some jolly music . Great job all in all o/

[@scanlime]

now that's a light emitting diode!

[@RapperBC]

Well-played, sir!

[@guitarstitch]

I cannot find fault in your logic.

[@AiOinc1]

Too bad it's not a diode, I believe these are triodes actually

[@RapperBC]

@@AiOinc1 Two, three... who's counting? (8^D) Let's not let to truth get in the way of a good joke! (Seriously though, @7:32 the schematic would appear to prove you correct.)

[@DancingRain]

In other words... long before the Light Emitting Diode, there was the Light Emitting Triode.

[@HeyBirt]

Wow, what a lovely blue glow! While watching this I got to thinking that this teletype was state of the art when my Dad was 5 years old, my grandparents would have all been in their mid 20's to early 30's. What a lot of change they saw in their lifetime, horses and buggies to man on the moon.

[@simontay4851]

And 2 world wars and the cold war.

[@hfiguiere]

"Let's fix the tools before with fix what we came to fix". This is just like software.

[@simontay4851]

And modern hardware.

[@SubTroppo]

When my significant other say "this doesn't seem" to work", I get the firmware flashes which do not illuminate the rabbit hole I about to descend into.

[@airingcupboard]

I like the sense of friendship and community in your videos. Best thing on KZbin.

[@Nighthawke70]

From the range radar checklist for the Eastern Atlantic Test Range: It takes about 5 minutes in FILAMENT for the power supplies for the subsystems to warm up. But they also caution about short-cycling them so the components won't get stressed. They recommend waiting 10-15 minutes before restarting the power up process at step one.

[@JeepinBoon]

My equipment with thyratrons use a mechanical synchrotron 15 minute timer motor attached to a switch on the HV transformer primary. A solenoid attached to the HV Primary holds the switch on after the timer runs out. Powering off releases the solenoid and the solenoid resets the synchrotron. I always put my thyratrons vertically when I remove them and never flip them or lay down.

[@WaltonPete]

Thyrotrons rule! To think, people get excited about blue LED's! You should seriously consider putting a clear window in the case. Never has the adage "They don't make 'em like they used to!" been so appropriate.

[@zaprodk]

The *Thyratrons might be emitting a good amount of UV, so don't look too much.

[@chuuni6924]

Pretty sure any UV-C would get blocked by the glass casing, no?

[@simontay4851]

Yeah, they built stuff properly in those days. You'll be lucky if a modern device still works after 88 years (2018-1930) with its original components.

[@zh84]

Good point. I had worried about the UV, but in fact if you want UV output from a lamp you have to use special glass. Look up "Wood's glass" in the Wikipedia if you want to know about it.

[@MoraFermi]

They waste a smidge less power, though.

[@larrygall5831]

I can't stop thinking about those tubes now. lol Give us a 10 minute video of these tubes with no other audio.. just the gentle hum. I could use it to fall asleep at night..

[@vincei4252]

Oh, man, that is beautiful. My heart almost jumped out of my chest when it turned on!

[@fostercathead]

The expertise, the friendship, the fellowship, the pure joy of resurrecting this "ancient" piece of gear ...

[@wtmayhew]

I’ve got a Model 19 in my basement with the TD, desk and power supply. Then one I have is oddly geared for 72 WPM rather than the typical 60 WPM speed. The power supply on mine is quite different. It uses a huge selenium disc rectifier and there is a three coil power transformer with a saturable core. There are input and output windings and a third *DC* winding which is connected by a resistor divider to the rectified output. If the output voltage increases, there is basically negative feedback via the DC winding to buck the voltage back down and vice versa. Very clever, very simple and it still works 90 years after it was built.

[@clivejones5880]

I'm watching this while repairing a run-of-the-mill 70's linear power supply and I'm jealous of that beautiful blue glow. What a beautiful piece of technology, it's almost art.

[@danieljennerman7549]

I'm glad I found your teletype series. My 92 year old grandmother use to use one way back in the day when she worked for a newspaper. I never understood what one was until now. Fascinating piece of machinery.

Wonderful, Marc! Cannot wait for the next one! Merci.

[@pvc988]

2 thyratrons 1 power supply BTW. Seeing this makes you realize how revolutionary invention of a transistor really was.

[@simontay4851]

Transistors will fail short unlike these tubes that will just keep working forever.

[@pvc988]

Valves also fail. but more gradually.

[@sleeptyper]

If we put a modern PC PSU next to this...

[@knalliebar]

Ah I want to binge watch this serie! Thanks Mark for documenting this. So exciting!

[@CuriousMarc]

Please stop the advice about needing to replace the caps! It drives us crazy. See why here : kzbin.info/www/bejne/fX6xgnele9WMh7s . There seems to be a KZbin myth that restoring vintage electronics consists in blindly replacing electrolytic caps. Just about as true as KZbin telling you that man never landed on the moon. Unlike many of their 1990 cousins, the 1953 Mallory caps are still doing fine, thank you very much. They have retained their full rated capacitance and low ESR. They leak less than 500 microamps at 120 Volts. And they are of course not going to burn a transformer, kill a Thyratron, and other predicted catastrophes even if they were to fail.

[@lambertax]

Well, I wouldn’t take that chance. Sorry, you’re (mostly) wrong !

[@CuriousMarc]

Chance of what? Wrong because of?

[@audio01]

Well said!!! Bravo!!!

[@CuriousMarc]

At least one person got it. Or is good at flattery. In either case we'll consider that progress :-)

[@TheDiveO]

no chance, replacing caps is Hippster Detox

[@MarquisDeSang]

I need more Thyratron in my life.

[@bborkzilla]

I have one of those Heathkit Condenser Checkers! It's one of the only ones I could find that allows me to set high voltage across old capacitors for more than a few seconds.

[@markg735]

I need to find out about it's display tube!

[@bborkzilla]

@@markg735 it's a 1629 Eye Tube

[@GrumpyTim]

Fantastic video, well done for preserving another piece of amazing equipment! What a fantastic bunch of friends/colleagues you have too - lots of great knowledge in that room. Also, well done for not systematically replacing all the capacitors - old capacitors aren't always bad, in fact I've had far more modern caps fail than vintage ones.

[@0fend0]

Those tubes are stunningly beautiful. Also, Ken rules!

[@hernancoronel]

At 13:37 Marc goes “That’s a hell of a power supply”. OH YEAH! Love your channel Marc, thank you, thank you, thank you!

[@akb168]

Nice touch with the Jazz Music at the end. Seems appropriate for a 1930's designed power supply. Really cool video :-)

[@redfive2008]

It's one of the canned music selections available with iMovie. There's 2 or 3 variations of different lengths included.

[@chrfit1]

So pretty, such a work of engineering art.

[@jf41012]

Thanks for that great birthday present ;D I wish you the best of luck for your project!

[@compu85]

I love Ken's attitude :)

[@bricoarn8651]

Dire que j'ai utilisé et dépanné des teletypes de cette génération dans les années 80s... Sagem, lorenz, creed... j'avais 20 ans... bravo et merci pour le partage de vos expériences passionnantes. Cordialement

[@OmeedNOuhadi]

Thank you so much, your videos belong in a museum and I hope you are Ad Sense or have paid promotional to get recompensation for bringing these videos to those who cannot travel easily.

[@wolf_hg]

The eye is supposed to open all the way when testing for leakage on the capacitors, any less or if it only opens a little bit means that there is leakage there.

[@Sixta16]

Every cap has leakage. Even good ones. It depends, what amount of leakage is acceptable. And using such "meters", or most precisely "indicators" at best, is not quite the right way to do things I think.

[@TheRealColBosch]

@@Sixta16 And what would you recommend? Chicken entrails in a pentagram? These devices check all four key attributes of capacitors: how fast they charge, how fast they discharge, how much the store, and if there's electrical leakage from internal shorts.

[@teslakovalaborator]

@@TheRealColBosch Sixta16 knows a LOT more about electronics than you, so you should respect him. You can't fully trust anyone like Paul Carlson. He knows sure a lot but sometimes he tries to learn people things that he isn't fully sure about.

[@TheDrunkenMug]

@@teslakovalaborator i beg to differ on your remarks to Paul Carlson (Mr Carlsons Lab). I've watched all his video's, some even multiple times. Including the ones on his Patreon page (since I sponsor him). And I, in my honest opinion, cannot say I've ever heard him say things which were false to me at the time or have remained to be proven false after I did some research. Only 100% accurate information as far as material from him is concerned... So you might want to explain with a few examples before you go stating stuff like that. Thank you,

[@krnlg]

Marc, what you're doing with this channel is amazing! :)

[@jasongladen82]

@ 10:08 durring the first turn on you can see the mercury silvering the inside. so cool

[@edgeeffect]

This must smell wonderful! I like the thyrotron flicker when it's unloaded.... looks like it was built by The Krell!!

[@davida1hiwaaynet]

Beautiful machine!

[@marktubes3419]

This has to be the best channel on youtube!

[@JacGoudsmit]

To all the kids trying this at home: Thyratrons and mercury arc rectifiers are pretty much the only tubes that are supposed to glow blue. Git yer darn blue LEDs off my tube amplifier lawn!

[@sobolanul96]

I never understood why they put BLUE leds under tubes. They are everywhere: amps, headphone amps, nixie clocks, preamps, etc.. They look like CCC (cheap chinese crap) toys.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

I hate blue LEDs in absolutely EVERYTHING. They destroy the appeal of even the cheapest piece of electronic device. >_> They are fucking EVERYWHERE. Manufacturers can chose from a huge selection of colorful LEDs and yet they ONLY use blue…

[@guitarstitch]

To be fair, some power tubes (6L6GC) will also glow blue without LEDs.

[@DancingRain]

And then there are the hydrogen dekatrons - which glow pink. ;)

[@5roundsrapid263]

guitarstitch Any beam tetrode will. I’ve seen it in 6K6, 6V6, 6L6, 35C5, and 50C5 tubes in antique radios.

[@sergeantseven4240]

This makes me love solid state electronics more. I can't imagine the headaches involved with working on complicated tube electronics and high voltages.

[@Maxxarcade]

You could actually see some sparks in the thyratrons when it first powered up. Probably quite a bit of current when reforming those old caps! This definitely seems built to last though.

[@wolf_hg]

Ooh that's some nice color glow!

[@ZerodJailbreak]

Les tubes étaient vraiment beaux!

[@zaprodk]

Mmmmm, mercury rectifiers and thyratrons are soooo cool :)

[@estpst]

looks like it is bulletproof, a thing of beauty

[@FesixGermany]

Orange neon and blue mercury glow.... just gorgeous!

[@burgendefadrik1909]

Beautiful tube controlled rectifier!

[@SeltsamerAttraktor]

Mr Carlsons Lab has designed a modern capacitor leakage tester that works without high voltage.

[@TheRealColBosch]

Mr Carlson's Lab has also restored one of those Heathkit capacitor testers. He actively uses it alongside his own design. He also does things a bit different than CuriousMarc, which is fine. You stick four engineers in a room, you get five opinions, and often they all work.

[@TheRealColBosch]

@Richard Vaughn To be fair, the entire point behind Mr Carlson's device is that it really doesn't need the high voltage to find the faults. I will confess that I have no idea how it works - electronics is magic, as far as I'm concerned - but he has demonstrated it.

[@FirstLast-vr7es]

THIS is what I love about tube electronics! That thing looks like something out of a mad scientists's laboratory! Amazing! And it actually does work! !!

[@jonathanallen30]

Just brilliant these old power supplies it's a light show as well

[@kbhasi]

Aww, a nice green eye. Also, nice choice of iMovie included sound effect there…

[@Erebus-PCFX]

A great testament to the quality of "Tubes-era" engineering.

[@lwilton]

1) You are quite right that those caps are just fine and don't need to be replaced. If they ever decide that they need to be replaced, they will tell you. That is what the fuse is for. But those Mallory units were great, and they are working just fine. Modern people have no clue that real caps actually had leakage when built in those days, and Mr Carlson's Lab seems to be propagating a myth that any cap more than 3 months old is a firework. They generally are not. 2) The wiring of that divider switch in the cap tester horrified me. Someone that knows how to wire stuff right on a switch like that should strip it down completely and redo it from scratch. (Yes, I realize from the look of those resistors that someone has recently stripped it down and replaced the resistors. It should be done again, right this time.) 3) If at all possible, bring up an old power supply like that on a variac the first time, not hot patching it across full voltage. That is a way to blow caps, or at least perforate them so they actually will need replacement someday. If you don't have a variac, put a 250W or 500W lightbulb in series with it for about 5 minutes before cutting it out the first time or two you bring it up. Measure the voltages on the hot side of the cutout relay before bringing it up to full input voltage. (The thermal relay may not operate at reduced input voltage.) 4) The thermal relay should be about 2 minutes on something like that. If you drop power on that supply, wait a couple of minutes before turning it back on. Don't trust the thermal relay to do that for you if you just glitch the power off and on. You can end up blowing the thyratrons by just glitching the power, and they are getting hard to replace these days.

[@thisman1906]

Always good to see these guys :-)

[@hygri]

Wow, check out the getter oxidation at 10:06 after the the thyratron filaments come on!

[@Z4uberwuerfel]

Wtf I just sneezed at the exact same moment as someone in the video! I love these restoration series btw, excellent work!

[@abc-ni9uw]

My grandfather is 91 born in 1929 so I have big respect for the old times. P.s how long does the Mercury last before the tube is rendered useless

[@timbro1]

Your videos are awesome! Keep it up!

[@tmanF4]

Such an interesting topic. Thanks for uploading!

[@TheFrogfather1]

I had an old HMV radio which used one of those magic eye tubes for tuning.

[@KingJellyfishII]

"electoboom moment" that should be an expression used every day

[@AureliusR]

Your daughter's response to you announcing if Ken blows up your 'scope he'll have to buy you a new one was great -- "I'm sure Mom wouldn't mind too much..." hehehe... just like all of us hackers in relationships, you have to split your time between your partner and your hobby, and they both want more!

[@jacknedry3925]

To all the "yOu NeEd To ChAnGe ThE cApS!" people, the capacitors in the video are not like the new cheap ones. The power supply is not comparable to ANY modern one, a supply made in the 1950's versus now will most likely work better and last longer. If you'd listen to them speaking, they noted that it is better than an iPhone charger Let me repeat myself, a power supply designed in the 1930's and made in the 1950's works BETTER than an Iphone charger made in the 2010's.

[@jacktheaviator4938]

I can't agree more. These people are all sheep. Just because modern caps blow constantly, doesn't mean they always have. I have some 1940s and 1950s vintage test equipment, running original electrolytic caps, and I have only found 1 bad cap out of approximately 50. I honestly believe the modern "capacitor plague" is a planned obsolescence scheme. Between that, and the push to make everything tiny, it causes high failure rates

[@jacknedry3925]

@@jacktheaviator4938, Yep, I'd also like to add that vacuum tubes are actually good despite common belief Here is an awesome video displaying that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/romqZImjiqd5ldE

[@TheDiveO]

The bleeder resistor is just right in front of the tester ... no need for a surplus resistor inside the tester.

[@CuriousMarc]

In that case I think *I * was the bleeder resistor!

[@TheDiveO]

CuriousMarc The beauty of minimal design and user engagement ... or so they say.

[@blenderbuch]

What a beauty!

[@delwoodbarker]

Nice music in the epilogue!

[@AlainHubert]

The glowing of those tubes reminds me of a mad scientist lab from some old sci-fi movie ! I want Thyratrons in my PSU now. :-)

[@randydakak4273]

Great engineers and inventions that last a lifetime

[@timhe]

beautiful Glow

[@NintenloupWolfFR]

You need to make a wallpaper with those tubes, would be neat !

[@Andrew_Sparrow]

...and this is the bit that makes time travel possible :p

[@curtislowe4577]

Carl? Ken? Help!! When the bi-metal shifts the contacts the heater xfmr is de-energized and the thyratrons plate transformer is energized by connecting the neutral lead of the Plate xfmr to line 2 or neutral supply but the plate xfmr supply comes off the 230V connection on the primary/line 1 side of the auto xfmr. How/Why is that voltage different from the supply voltage? The lower set of contacts connects the neutral/line 2 side of the plate xfmr to the white lead of the motor. The black lead of the motor goes to the motor cycles connections on the primary side of the auto xfmr but the motor cycle connections are just extensions of the four lower primary auto xfmr inputs. (???) Power to the relay coil was applied on power up from a center tap between the thyratron filament power leads which is connected to output power line 1/Hot. The other side of the relay...ends up connecting to the thyratrons control grids, but not symmetrically. What is the relay voltage and how is the circuit completed? Oh, and when did the symbol for ohms change? How does one message off KZbin comments privately?

[@XMarkxyz]

A CuriousMarc's video isn't a CuriousMarc's video until it has some restoratinception going on P.s. "Will it glow or will it blow?" my new life approach

[@Merlinkatamari]

you should take an geiger counter and look if the Blue glowing tubes emit x rays or is the blue glow normal curse the mercury ???

[@PapasDino]

Ahhh, the Model 19, my first TTY machine...I knew I had 60mA loop current when the blue glow appeared behind the monster and I could turn the AC on to the printer....memories, memories! 73 - Dino KL0S

[@DeputatKaktus]

„Better than your iPhone charger“ It is certainly very much more pretty. I would love to see the look at the Genius Bar when you tell them „Hi, I would like a new set of thyratrons for my PSU. Can you help me there?“ Also, Thyratron sounds like a pretty badass name for a metal band.

[@TheDrunkenMug]

Awesome information !!

[@ScDMiller1]

💡 pretty glow on that power supply! 😃 almost want to use it as a night light.🙃

[@hinz1]

Basically the thyratron equivalent of like HP6269B, 6271B.... SCR preregulated power supplies ;-) Wonder if they ever did a SMPS with tubes, driven into saturation. Not as efficient/low voltage drop/Rds ON as with mosfets, but might have worked, for small power supply.

[@JohnRineyIII]

Heck of a power supply!

[@edgeeffect]

That's great because god alone knows where you'd get replacements for those tubes.

[@Albrecht8000]

I´ve got a question: This is a power supply with makes from 110 V / 60 Hz direct current for the typewriter. Whats the maximum power and the weight? The blue tubes are rectifiers?

[@CuriousMarc]

See link in video description for this info and more.

[@Albrecht8000]

​@@CuriousMarc AHHH! OK! Nevertheless: Thanks! :-) Greetings from germany

[@kedarprabhudessai]

Oh boy... I love the work you do man its so beautiful and enjoying i always enjoy watching your videos. Still there are lot of videos i am left to watch i am loving it 👌👌 Btw that capacitor tester was so retired man 😆.. and did u test those big caps when they were connected in the circuit still u got correct values?

[@CuriousMarc]

The capacitors were disconnected when we did the “measurement”, at least on one side.

[@henrymach]

Those things really were built to last

[@Debraj1978]

Massive Thratrons were used in electric locomotives in India, during 1970 or so, now they are all sitting in different museum.

[@MatthijsvanDuin]

So wait, it's a switching power supply? And the blinking thyratrons when it's unloaded indicate it's in discontinuous mode?

[@CuriousMarc]

You are right on both counts. Although it switches at the frequency of the mains, unlike a modern one that would switch at a much higher frequency.

[@ReneSchickbauer]

Just to make sure i understand: You suspected that the bleeder resistor contacts were broken and you still touched the caps? ElectroBOOM would be really proud of you!

[@RobertHart]

I had a 50kva resistance welder that used these same type of thyratron tubes to trigger the large water-cooled mercury Ignitron tubes. Ripped it all out and replaced them with SCRs

[@jacknedry3925]

YOU WHAT!?!?!!?!?!?

[@RobertHart]

@@jacknedry3925 replaced the water-cooled mercury Ignitron en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignitron with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_controlled_rectifier the timing/control circuits that used the thyratron tubes were replaced with a modern PLC electronics. The resistance welder (spot welder) transformer and pneumatics were still in very good condition and we ran it for some years.

[@tpcdude]

cool! you have checked out the only part that does not have gears and oil.

[@joefrisco]

Any xrays?

[@Lazarus7000]

Those Thyratrons are gorgeous! I really like the power supply, it's the most comprehensive multi-volt power supply I've ever seen, in terms of input that can be accommodated. Now I want to know what it would take to build a 3/4KW PC power supply using this technology. I can't stand the whole "let's put LEDs inside the PC" bullshit, but if what's in there lights up and looks awesome just because it's working right, well, damn straight let me see it!

[@martinsalko1]

i love that it's literally a linear regulator

[@CuriousMarc]

As explained in the video, it is a switched power supply, not a linear regulator.

[@martinsalko1]

@@CuriousMarc mhm, i haven't watched it till the end yet ^u^ the part with the neon bulb looks almost like 78xx internal diagram, so that's why i said it, but ye I'll watch the rest on my free time XD

[@compu85]

The real visual treat will come when the supply gets hooked up to the working terminal and the glow of the rectifiers will change based on the draw!

[@Digimer]

Gah! Too early for HD again...

[@larrygall5831]

I could look at those tubes flicker all day. I'll bet you could hypnotize someone with this thing. Sit them in a chair in front of a table with these tubes on it.. tell them to stare at the tubes and count down from 100. They'll be out by 50.

[@qzorn4440]

Heath-kits were great for kids like me living on a farm and to learn electronics at home. :) thanks.

[@alexandrossotiropoulos5621]

Truly magic!

[@OldSkoolF]

@10:05 Mercury goes into Vapor ... Look at the tube color...

[@kitalthevali]

you have won a sub good job