Tension grows between Colorado Parks & Wildlife and ranchers over recently reintroduced wolves

[@J57133]

They can’t even have a handful out for a year without huge conflicts.

[@henryrodgers1752]

According to the “Colorado Sun” website, ranchers Don Gittleson has applied for, and received, $16,000 for ten (10) killed cows, calves, lambs and working dogs. Payment on other animals is pending. The article mentions Mr. Gittleson has tried donkeys, fladry, overnight herdsmen. Only when those efforts failed did Mr. Gittleson apply to CPW for help, the article said. Obviously, this is an extremely difficult situation, fraught with emotions. In the last 150 years, public sympathy and support for protected, endangered wildlife has become part of the American culture. That said, no rational person would argue for destruction of the livestock growers industry by uncontrolled depredation. CPW must properly do its’ job.

[@patmagee4327]

The ignorance in this thread is astonishing....very sad. Relevant questions: How does a rancher prove wolf depredation? How is a rancher compensated for wolf depredation? What percentage of cattle are killed by wolves?...in Colorado as well as in other states with longer history with wolf populations? How many calves don't live to 1 year of age in Colorado...death rates from non wolf causes (disease, elements, inadequate mothering, coyote, domesticated dogs, cougar, bear, etc). Talk to the CPW for these answers. If they don't know the answers, then they are not doing their jobs. I strongly suspect they do have these answers and are doing their jobs. If you really want to educate yourselves on wolves and wolf behavior, dismiss the emotions and folklore and read: Wolves: Behavior, Ecology and conservation. Yellowstone wolves. American Wolf. Of Wolves and Men. Never Cry Wolf. An amazing species...very human like. Educate yourselves rather than promote your ignorance with these silly comments.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@patmagee4327 the yellow stone studies, are the most politically biased, emotional-fantasy-based data out there on wolves. The studies completely gloss over the fact that the entire ungulate population in that park (deer, elk, bison, antelope) were habituated there, as well as complete restrictions on hunting, since the 1800’s. The elk were influenced to inhabit the park for tourism purposes, which means any introduction, of a predator, or other form of game management like hunting, would effect the already highly unnatural ecosystem in that particular area. And all of that’s not to mention, that before 1492, this country had 60 million bison, 10 million elk, and 30 plus million deer roaming, stomping, crapping, farting, and eating in every field, meadow, valley and basin from Nevada to Appalachia. Remember, wolves rarely take down bison, that was part of the yellow stone study. It’s all a bunch of crap. It’s all just ballot box initiatives of the left, and climate change horse crap, as means to end hunting, public lands, and ranches. That’s all it’s ever been, and that’s all it ever will be. Anyone, with even a modicum of intelligence, can see the agenda from ten miles away.

[@LS1056]

Wait. So let me get this straight, do Colorado ranchers just free range their cattle and not use fences and protection? It's almost like ranchers can't protect their cattle

[@thelittleguy-ih8nv]

Colorado is a free range state and are you that dumb to believe that a fence with 2ft gaps between them (typical barb wire fence) will keep a wolf out!?

[@progradepainting3755]

They were doing fine until you clowns reintroduced a pack-hunting-apex predator that’s been off the scene for 200 years.

[@LS1056]

@@progradepainting3755 Maybe ranchers should invest in protecting their assets Ike fencing and designated pastures.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@LS1056 do you realize a high fence on a 200,000 acre ranch would cost millions upon millions, and it would further block off travel corridors for elk, deer, and many, many other species? The wolves would now have modern logging roads to access prey, large cities, highways, and then hundreds of thousands of fenced in cattle ranches to corner their prey. Do you put any mental effort or deductive reasoning into your thinking?

[@LS1056]

@progradepainting3755 Why would a rancher need 200,000 acres to provide to a herd of cattle. I get 100s to 1,000s, but 200k, can you effectively monitor them? Sounds like to me ranchers need to understand what they effectively can use to maximize their output and protections. Simple, they use designated areas that are effective cause you, the rancher, plus hands can watch over the heard. Also, cattle bunch up when there's a predator, as do other graze animals. If a rancher, in a area, sees that then they can effectively handle it. Tells me that ranchers have too much land to effectively monitor their assets. If they can section off that's another story. Approach it as a business and you see you can do it more effectively

[@tjtidwell1974]

“Hey ranchers, sorry our wolf killed your livestock. We can’t do anything about it because it is breeding with another wolf, that will have a litter of wolves that will multiply this effect” CPW

[@LS1056]

@@tjtidwell1974 more like, "Hey ranchers, you can't really protect your assets and have too much land for you to monitor." Should employ farm hands, monitor the cattle, plan out movements

[@progradepainting3755]

@@LS1056 says the guy with video games at the forefront of his mind as he dwells in mommy’s basement.

[@LS1056]

@progradepainting3755 says the one who knows that if you free range you investments like cattle with no care, you're asking for trouble. Protect your assets, and you should be surprised what happens. It's not hard to get some laborers. Also, love your typical, "Basement dweller" response, tells me you can't handle actual consideration

[@progradepainting3755]

@@LS1056 I bet you’ve never even done an honest day’s labor in your life. Let’s see your highly effective cattle ranch with laborers who fend off wolves 24/7, and Minecraft doesn’t count.

[@junipercivis6397]

Wait! I thought ranchers were reimbursed for any lost cattle? Before things get too crazy here, can we discuss ranchers rights and reimbursement? Also, the rights of another species to live and florish? Arguing never solves anything.

[@coloradogirllovesmountains2909]

You do understand the government doesn’t have any money to pay ranchers. They pay with taxpayers money. Against many of their will.

[@danhipps8747]

They are most likely making us hunters pay for it, and it shows up on the cost of our increasing tags every year.

[@martymcflyer8487]

CPW has a donation page where the public can contribute to the wolf reintroduction effort. Range riders can teach that male and his offspring to fear ranches.

[@genxtech5584]

​@@coloradogirllovesmountains2909Yes and plenty of us tax payers would like our wild lands to remain as such.. Tell me why do you think you've got the right to play god and decide what species live and which die? How confident are you in your knowledge of the ecosystem that you predict all the repercussions from removing species? The level of arrogance amazes me.

[@dhand34]

Yeah ranchers also get loads of tax payer money, just to operate. It’s a managed economy aka socialism

[@TheRealQuinten]

Me. I’m one of the ranchers

[@genxtech5584]

Then you should understand land stewardship and that the land your cattle graze only continues to exist because thousands of men before you didn't destroy the ecosystem you're using today. Losing cattle to natural predators should be part of the business with ranching, same as losing cattle to a virus. If the price of the product must go up to accommodate a living wage for our ranchers then so be it. We can't continue to steal life from our children to pay for our greed today.

[@mtnbound2764]

seems like CPW should be paying the ranchers for each depredation. i mean if i went and killed a ranchers livestock im pretty sure they would expect me to pay for it, why does CPW get a pass? their actions are directly the cause of the loss

[@seant2808]

Who said they got a pass?

[@ronaldhansen2585]

CPW is not the direct cause. Those who voted in favor of wolf reintroduction are the Direct Cause.

[@danhipps8747]

It should be on the taxpayers back, not Cpw. Taxpayers asked for it.

[@mtnbound2764]

@@danhipps8747 not all of them. but i see your point

[@seant2808]

@@danhipps8747 Not sure 100% voted for it.... Genereal taxpayer fund via CPW will pick it up, like most mishaps.

[@SourDoughBill]

Quite frankly, ranchers are reimbursed for each killing. If it's not enough, that should be their complaint... If only the state reimbursed me for every chick I lost to foxes and coyotes...

[@brandocommando6593]

Very short sighted comment to say they are getting reimbursement. Every cow killed will cause meat and dairy to cost more. Like we need higher food cost

[@SourDoughBill]

@@brandocommando6593 Oh, please, this is about ranchers, not consumers... And to suggest 6 or even 600 cattle are going to cause a noticeable change in the price of hamburger can only be said honestly as sarcasm. (Over 35 million cattle are slaughtered every year in the U..S.)

[@genxtech5584]

​@@brandocommando6593ROFL do you actually believe this or are you just repeating something you read for fun? You do realize we can't possibly release enough wolves in our lifetime to dent the number of cattle we raise....

[@Reed411]

​@@brandocommando6593 My guy... The calving crop for 2022 was 780,000 in Colorado alone. Even if 25 calves were killed this year, that would only be .0024% of all calves born in Colorado. That does NOT include full grown cattle either. Spare me with this whole "the price of meat will go up" argument. WA, OR, CA, ID, MT, WY, MN, and WI all have wolves, and we haven't seen those states go bust, quite the opposite actually. So please, don't be so short sighted, it's why you guys always lose these debates.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@Reed411no, you woke clowns lost the debate from the get go, when you voted against the CPW’s recommendation that this was a bad idea, because the pot smoke cloud over Denver had everyone believing wolves were going to reverse climate change. Colorado has to now fit the bill for both the reintroduction bill, and all degradation fees… yay! You created a problem that no one needed, and it affects everyone, from the rancher, to the consumer, to the wolves themselves, to the hunters, to the elk and deer, and down to the very Colorado taxpayer himself.

[@stevenutepass7671]

Conway rancher grand all concerned speaking out, the guy drives his snowcat over road fencing his cattle now roaming county road 3 between mm 16 & 14. Dude needs to go, strickly wild mouth rancher wolves but yet his cattle fencing damaged himself doesn't care.

[@dhand34]

Yeah we are sick of freeloading ranchers.

[@stevenutepass7671]

@dhand34 Out here, there are way to check this a**, not me to do however there are folks that have taken offense conway boy speaking out thinking he is above law. Boy dug himself hole now.

[@stevenutepass7671]

@dhand34 when could I come out by you for advice on rescue two wolves. Unfortunately my Akita possibly part wolf will be put down, degenerative spinal cord issues. Young pup, I'll miss him. You know I'm 11 acres grand county reintroduced wolves area. Have enclosure but will need to make secure.

[@dhand34]

@@stevenutepass7671 I had to put down my old pit bull last summer. She was almost 16

[@stevenutepass7671]

​@dhand34 never easy but sometimes have to do. I have 4 urns of ashes here, first was when I was 14 years old holding vet office put down. I'll now have 5 urns.

[@alexcharneski7597]

Shouldn’t have left this decision up to voters.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@alexcharneski7597 it was an incredibly stupid move

[@maxasaurus3008]

CPW needs to be able to reimburse the ranchers for the loss.

[@nothingmuch2023]

This is such an excellent report, and what a great guy Mr. Hackleman seems to be... I'm all for big predators, but I fully understand the rancher's frustration when they can't defend their livestock. I like that he sees CPW employees are in a tough position, and isn't drumming up hate for them! I've had friends working for the USFS run off the road in Idaho, simply for their place of employment... so de-escalating the situation is a good idea. Kudos for understanding. Fair compensation is a first step, but attacks are always more problematic than just the animals killed. The stress to a herd or flock, including throwing pregnancies, is one of them. At the same time, many are killed by dogs and blamed on wolves (according to friends who work with tracking those animals professionally in such cases). So, yeah. There must be a way to co-exist, but it can't be up to just one part of the population to pay for it.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@nothingmuch2023 oh yeah, they’ll be a way, and it’ll be out of your pocket book, when a pack of ribeyes costs you north of $100 due the difficulty of cattle ranching in the face of ballot box conservation.

[@sweetpealee056]

There are some special breeds of dogs that will live with and protect the herd...at least with sheep and goats, maybe with cattle as well? Might help as deterrent?

[@jameswolf4894]

That's a ton of dogs needed if they have more than 100 cattle. Many ranchers have cattle in the thousands. Its just not realistic on such a grand scale. Plus, wolves dont fight fair. Average pack has 6 to 8 wolves more or less. How many expensive well bred dogs are gna be needed for wolf prevention?

[@coloradogirllovesmountains2909]

Try paying to feed five large LGD which is what it would take against a pack of wolves.

[@dhand34]

Cows did $20k worth of damage on a cabin build and I got nada. Sorry ranchers are cry babies. We voted in wolves and now we need to put fence out laws on a ballet or make ranchers pay for land owners fencing.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@dhand34 so when your hamburger costs $100, you won’t be complaining, right? You’ll be happy to drink your roach milk.

[@jce9875]

A wolf being put down for doing what a wolf does is crazy 😂😂😂😂💀💀💀💀💀

[@pamelaforrest1622]

i love cattle and i love wolves but i am smart enough to know one is a predator

[@RockyMountainsUSA]

There are a lot of predator's in Colorado. Sorry but most people don't think animals should be killed because they are predators.

[@Redstoneprime316]

@@RockyMountainsUSA Exactly. Predators killing other animals is part of nature.

[@albrightfs]

@@RockyMountainsUSA NOR should they be introduced to lands where they have not resided...

[@RockyMountainsUSA]

@@albrightfs What predator are you referring to? The article is about wolves and they are native to Colorado, they are being reintroduced because they were eradicated.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@RockyMountainsUSA Colorado is worlds apart from what it was when wolves were on the landscape. There was a native population of 60 million bison in every basin, meadow, field, and valley from Nevada to Appalachia, but I don’t see you advocating for that.

[@brandocommando6593]

We need to release the wolves in Denver and Boulder so we give the voters what they want.

[@DidblG]

Please.. these people that vote for this crap should be delt the cards too!

[@Reed411]

I wouldn't mind it. Because I'm not a scared p#$$^ like some people.

[@mikegreen5596]

Please work to reintroduce grizzly bears to Colorado. The weiminuche wilderness area near Pagosa springs and Durango is ideal country for their reintroduction. A vibrant grizzly bear population will keep the wolves in check

[@vees_bees]

All predators belong on their native lands. If we want to restore balance, they all need to be reintroduced. I just read this week about hunters that died from consuming deer meat infected with chronic wasting disease . Wolves would have weeded those sick animals out. Emotions are running high, but education is key. Implement deterrents that have been promoted.

[@tjtidwell1974]

Let’s release them into Boulder county

[@jameswolf4894]

Assuming the bears dont realize they can easily just get beef as well. And they will.

[@usmcgunner58]

@@vees_beesthis is where you lose the non lunatics. You’re lying. And not just that you’re lying about things beyond your comprehension. You’re as much of a scientist or an outdoorsman as I am an interior decorator. The cause of death of those two men is STILL yet to be determined. To speak of it as fact is an act of wild stupidity. Have some respect for yourself.

[@mikegreen5596]

Just count the carcasses along the highways. The ungulate population is very large. made so in order to sell out of state hunting licenses. Many ungulate,deer elk kills by large trucks go unreported they don’t stop,little or no damage,so no report no count. Some animals leave the highway to die unseen and uncounted

[@chcch3484]

Bad law

[@peggysmart439]

maybe some donkeys they hate coyotes dogs wolves

[@Reed411]

Good! I was waiting for Colorado to start paying range riders. That could be a game changer for ranchers.

[@davidplatt8915]

They're gonna "shoo away" the wolves...according to young cub reporter Spencer. Mmm hmm. SMFH.

[@Reed411]

@@davidplatt8915 It sounds to me like you don’t know much about how range riding works.

[@coloradogirllovesmountains2909]

At your expense taxpayers. I think only the dopes that voted for this should have their tax dollars wasted this way.

[@danhipps8747]

Who should pay for that??

[@henryrodgers1752]

@@danhipps8747: Colorado voters passed the referendum. Costs associated with the implementation is estimated and accounted for by the state government ($455,000 for this year). Taxation.

[@Luis-o4i2k]

Yall do realize why we killed the wolves in the first place right..

[@progradepainting3755]

@@Luis-o4i2k because they were a super apex predator, that destroyed every attempt for early people to survive and develop a head of cattle to sustain themselves.

[@Redstoneprime316]

To destroy the ecosystem.

[@progradepainting3755]

@@Redstoneprime316 there was 60 million bison roaming across this country. I don’t see you advocating for those numbers to “restore the natural ecosystem.”

[@12bucklemyshoes101]

If you voted for the reintroduction of wolves and live on the front range, do not recreate in Jackson county we’re watching

[@timhulbert3667]

A threat?

[@RockyMountainsUSA]

The wolves will be in Jackson County no matter what you want.

[@Redstoneprime316]

"If you care about the ecosystem, don't recreate in Jackson county". Same thing, really.

[@Reed411]

hahahahahah No one cares. I'll go to Jackson Country any time I please.

[@12bucklemyshoes101]

@@Reed411 (edited)

[@kevine9986]

Wolf's are killers there's a reason they removed them

[@Redstoneprime316]

Wolves are vital to the ecosystem, there's a reason they reintroduced them.

[@kevine9986]

@@Redstoneprime316 the Wolf's they introduced are from Canada much larger than native Wolf's

[@Reed411]

@@kevine9986 This is factually false and a testament to the ignorance of the those who oppose this decision.

[@Redstoneprime316]

@@kevine9986 They're the same species. What you're saying is EXACTLY the same as saying lions from South Africa and lions from Kenya are different species.

[@kevine9986]

So are tea cup dogs and great danes..same species

[@davidhuyler3906]

S.S.S.

[@drewolm]

SSS

[@Reed411]

You support for Cody Roberts, don't you?

[@jeffruebens8355]

The ranchers do get paid for their livestock lost to wolves.

[@dugfern]

Get guard dogs.