New Gamboge: New vs Old Formula

Original PY153 vs the new PY97 & PY110. Does the new formula look the same? Find out in this video.
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[@teohyc]

It was difficult to squeeze out that last drop

[@Jenny-xe4gt]

Teoh Yi Chie Try cutting up the tube and you can use the remaining colour inside:)

[@Airbugg]

Definitely. Cut it open. That's precious stuff :)

[@justtubingby129]

Use pliers. You'll be amazed how much paint you can salvage.

[@gypsysnickerdoodle4354]

Try a crimping roller. Plastic is good, but the steel is predictably impressive Seriously, it gets it aaaaall out! I got mine from Gerstäcker, but this looks similar: www.cheapjoes.com/tube-wringer.html By the time you get to the bottom, a pair of pliers for that last bit in the cone & nozzle is much easier kzbin.info/www/bejne/mamTk4ekg7d4Z6c

[@navyboymommygramma]

I was going to say cut the crimping off the bottom cuz there's quite a bit of paint still in there but that would be a bit redundant since others already said the same thing hahaha

[@kurtf3734]

I guess you could say New Gamboge vs *_OLD_* Gamboge

[@teohyc]

I thought of that lol

[@dynomax101]

Kurt Not really...it would be very misleading. Old gamboge is natural yellow 24--NY 24 and was a dye made from the sap of the garcinia tree. A fugitive color Winsor & Newton used to sell. What did it look like? Nickel Azo Yellow, PY 150. Those yellows look like identical twins, way more transparent, and stronger than PY 153. PY 150 is highly lightfast and stable.

[@AlexYorim]

You mean Old New Gamboge and New New Gamboge

[@mfregia945]

It appeared that, while the new color formulation has a similar hue, it possibly did not mix/blend in quite the same way?

[@rashone2879]

The two Gamboges look the same to me. Any differences would be minuscule and not at all noticeable in a sketch filled with varieties of colors. I enjoy watching these videos featuring specific colors and how they mix with others. They're all lovely.

[@loveandlife4222]

Oh, and I would cut the tube apart and use every last bit of that beautiful paint!

[@gorway7]

You bet...

[@elgabenedicta]

Such a feast for the eyes.. I love watching colors mixed together 🤗

[@higherground711]

I think Daniel Smith is spot on with this new New Gamboge formula. It seems fine to me from seeing this video. I'll be interested to see your sketches with the new one. I'd say that'll be when one sees how new New Gamboge compares to the old one. ⚖️ Thanks for the comparison Teoh. Very interesting. 👍 😄

[@z4k4z]

I found this highly interesting, seeing how you describe the colours and watching the blending process itself.I'm expecting delivery (ordered via your Jackson's affiliate link) of my first watercolour set, some nice travel brushes and a pad of good quality paper tomorrow... so excited :-)

[@bastet469]

Turner brand uses PY110 in their Yellow Orange. I have a tube of it and I like using it in my split primary palette for my warm yellow. They offer a color they call Permanent Gamboge but it's a 3-pigment mix of PY150, PY110 and PY109. I lean more towards single pigment colors.

[@PaulaBean]

I'm glad you made this video. I now don't have to feel missing out because I didn't stock up on PY153-containing Gamboge.

[@SnowblindOtter]

The new pigment combination actually appears to be a bit brighter, not that it's a bad thing. It almost looks like the tiniest hint of Yellow Ochre was taken out of it.

[@chammikaiser7740]

What a gorgeous colour new gamboge is Teoh. Nice mixes you have achieved. Thanks so much for sharing.

[@alejandromorales9516]

I have only used the new formula. I don't worry about only having single pigments, esp. this one which is only two yellows. I also love their Aussie Red Gold which is three pigments. You just have to know your pigments and what to mix with what.

[@DistractedDaisy]

New Gamboge old formula seems to blend so much more softly in all except the ultramarine.. there was a lot of blooming with the new formula.. that thalo blue mist with old formula was so soft...

[@loveandlife4222]

Love love the old and the new! Both very beautiful!! Thank you for a great video. 👍

[@yvans.73]

New one looks like it's granulating more. Other than that, they look almost identical.

[@maisiefreeman8597]

Every time I see an old tube of PY153, I buy it. It's indispensable for me.

[@paulfogarty7724]

I use a small plyers to squash out the last paint from the tube. There is still a suprising amount left in the collar and head of the tube.

[@wulfseig1864]

I didn't even know they switched. I never had the old formula I guess. Love the color but trying to stick to single pigments. The mixes look good though for a mixed pigment. I thought it would be a bit duller compared to the single pigment gamboge. Nice to know it looks the same. Going to add it back into my palette. Thanks so much for this comparison. Love your videos!

[@teohyc]

The new formula performs very similar. I won't have noticed if they had switch if I had not read the label or read online.

[@PaulaBean]

Even if you buy a tube which lists PY153 on the label, it very well might be PY97/110. Paint manufacturers use up their old labels.

[@gorway7]

Hi Teoh, I notice DS New Gamboge seems way deeper than WN. I have just picked up a tube of old stock WN PY153 New Gamboge and it seems closer to a transparent Cad yellow than the lovely rich tone you have. My WN Indian Yellow looks more similar to your NG and is the colour I tend to use most in mixing greens but I will definitely try the DS once I use this up.

[@irisflower4366]

Very helpful and useful!

[@JoyDiPaola]

My local art supply had the DS sticks with the old pigment. I may have bought about 4 because it’s my favorite yellow.

[@EstrafaDC]

That's the original resin. I found a tube of the old stuff (marked NY "natural yellow") and I have to say it is dull dull dull. Then again it has to be pretty old so it was known to discolor. I'm sure that fresh from the branch it was probably amazing to see.

[@JoyDiPaola]

Yeah, sorry. I meant the PY153 for the sticks. I think the PY153 is more transparent than the mix. I do have a tube of the real NY gamboge. I don’t use it that often.

[@HelloHelloHellobby]

It looks like the original had stronger tinting strength to hold its own in mixes. It also looks like it is smoother/blooms less.

[@hansendesigns]

Thx for vid :)

[@filsdedieu100]

Excellent ; merci :-)

[@MrsTiffanyGrey]

Thank you, Teoh! I just looked at my DS Split primary set that I purchased over a year ago and it's the new formula! Did they discontinue this all the way back then? Thank you for your video. Your mixes are lovely.

[@wulfseig1864]

Mine as well. Obviously I liked it because it's all gone.

[@glorioskiola]

I think the new formula has been out for a few years. My DS split primary set from 2 years ago has the new formula.

[@captivatednightshade1432]

There is a slight difference with the paints but it's like you said, not too much to worry about. It's all about the pigmentation.

[@PaulaBean]

I use New New Gamboge (PY97/110) a lot and I find it an attractive, easy to use, warm yellow. If you'd ask me, I can't see any difference with the PY153, not in the stand-alone use of it, nor in its mixing properties. Thanks for the video!

[@kurtf3734]

Teoh! What-what!!

[@jennw6809]

I found out that Sennelier actually still makes a PY 153, it's called Sennelier Yellow Light. It's not clear whether they had a stockpile of the pigment. I am not sure how it compares in hue to the old Gamboge. I also contacted Schmincke because I was curious that they list PY 153 in their Sap Green (which is much brighter than most companie's). They say they do have a stockpile and they will eventually need to change their formula.

[@zimrianispresent8123]

Nice

[@sannojohasshu7590]

Wow! Macro lens.

[@capbin146]

Another question, do you wet the old paint when adding the new paint to fill the holder any other trick to make sure they stick to each other. In the video it looks like it might be moist. Thanks

[@teohyc]

I just add the new paint without doing anything extra. They will stick together. Paint is sticky

[@OkieSketcher1949]

I think the new color is brighter (lighter) than the old but not enough to make a difference. When mixing all one needs to do is add or delete the amount of the different colors to get the one you want. It is six to one or half a dozen to the other.

[@Shiruvan]

my impression to it is like others in comment section, though I don't have DS New/Old Gamboge myself, the look of that change in wet-on-wet mixing property still bothers me. well just myself personally, maybe I can just think that I don't do spontaneous wet-on-wet like that and it's not my problem(oh really? >_>). heavy paint load doesn't seem to fare well for cheaper materials when it comes to spontaneous(but predictable) methods, brushes-papers-paints, since there aren't just lavish sketchers watching this channel, I'm sort of frugal but at the same time learning the lavish uses for art material often doesn't lend well to results that I wanted either. I could probably use a half pan proactively and I couldn't even finish that color xD anyway, don't let nostalgia for something unattainable gets you, specially when you don't even use it that way.

[@teohyc]

The paper I was using wasn't particularly good with wet on wet.

[@Dan.B.Artist]

This isn't a colour that I've used personally but I know Old Gamboges in general are preferred to the newer versions but I honestly can't see a difference. I wonder why the change, PY153 isn't a discontinued pigment as far as I know.

[@everartokelli]

I believe it was discontinued in 2012. I still have a pan of WN New Gamboge PY153, it's beautiful and the new WN version doesn't match as well as the DS version seems to. Another of those glowy colors that give light to a painting that seems to be disappearing.

[@everartokelli]

@Yasmine S. thanks for the link!

[@EstrafaDC]

That's the original "Gamboge" from the plant. A resin. What Teoh is comparing here is a new replacement for the first replacement for natural gamboge. The naming isn't helping here. ANd to your earlier point Penholder, I"m not sure why they replaced this as PY153 still appears in a few hues, combined with other yellow pigments. So it's still available, so it can't be due to toxicity (the reason they stopped using the original natural resin).

[@everartokelli]

PY153 is still available at a few watercolor companies (like Sennelier) because they stockpiled it or have sufficient inventory. But it's no longer being manufactured by the big pigment companies (who seem to cater to the auto industry, not paint makers).

[@JohnFishman]

I would assume that Daniel Smith spends a great amount of time, money, and effort to ensure they get it as close as possible.

[@PaulaBean]

Indeed. They probably also have very sensitive colorimeters which can discern color differences much better than our eyes.

[@PaulaBean]

And they're probably also using electron-microscopes to study the granulation!

[@raniazakaria4602]

What is the brand of that sketch book??

[@teohyc]

Hahnemuhle sketchbook kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHrKaZJtrs9ofpY

[@clicksnd]

The old formulation looks like it has a lower chroma.

[@odissilva8150]

More paint videos 🤓

[@capbin146]

Interesting do you know why the change?

[@teohyc]

They ran out of the old pigment

[@capbin146]

Teoh Yi Chie wow 😯 that’s amazing. Thanks for letting me know.

[@PaulaBean]

Pigments are mainly made for the car industry, and they changed to other yellow pigments. It wasn't economically feasible to produce PY153 anymore. Watercolors is a niche market compared to industrial use of pigments.

[@lindaapple1678]

I have watched your vids for a very long time but I don't think I have commented. While watching this one, you spoke of Noodler's Ink , slow drying time. I don't know if you have tried this but I use DeAtraments (Archive Ink) for my fountain pens. It is permanent, non clogging for fountain pens,very good black and dries faster than Noodler's. If you haven'[t tried it, you might want to check it out?

[@teohyc]

I've a bottle. It's good!

[@lindaapple1678]

oh, of course you do. You have everything :) :)

[@ebujvt65]

Think the old works best when mixing used old when the new gamboge came out stopped using gamboge

[@kaissecondhiddenchannel2998]

rename the video new gamboge vs old gamboge

[@EstrafaDC]

Actually it would be New Gamboge and Old New Gamboge (which was among the first replacements for "Gamboge" made from the rather toxic resin of the garcinea tree.

[@kai-rr8np]

@@EstrafaDC woosh

[@Meticularius]

I see the difference as the old formula has more pigment in it, is more substantial, maybe a hint dirtier. It's as if the molecules align themselves in a more regimented array. The newer formula is slightly brighter and thinner, but not as robust as the old formula. I'd stay with the old, cutting open the tube. I may not have as many rods and cones in my eyes as other artists, and age is taking a slight toll.

[@justtheletterV274]

Cheese......

[@richardmika2136]

can use some pliers and a hammer get some extra drops out

[@teohyc]

I'm going to but those tube squeezing tools and see if they work.

[@richardmika2136]

dident know they had any tools for it should be a funny one

[@PaulaBean]

Or you can cut the tube open, let it dry, and scrape every fleck of paint from the metal.