Terraforming Mars vs Ares Expedition - Play This, Not That

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Ares Expedition promised everything you wanted from Terraforming Mars, but in a shorter play time, and mixed with some Race for the Galaxy elements. And apparently it's at Target early too...but how does it compare to the original? Better? Worse? Worth owning and playing both. Join Quackalope, Shira and myself as we debate these two games.
Quackalope Review - • Our Thoughts on Terraf...
TimeStamps:
0:00:00 - Introduction
0:00:33 - Why These Games Are Worth Comparing
0:02:00 - General Gameplay Overview
0:03:58 ​- Price
0:05:23 - Theme
0:08:25 - Art & Components
0:10:45- Ease of Learning/Teach
0:13:10 - Mechanics
0:21:28 - Play This, Not That
Scoring System
5 - My favorite games. I'm disappointed when anyone I play games with doesn't like it, because it means I might play it less often.
4 - A great game. Almost always going in my collection.
3 - A solid game. Enjoyed it and can recommend it, but may or may not stay in my collection.
2 - I'm either not the target audience for the gameplay, or too many issues with it.
1 - An arguably bad game.
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[@CincyAirshipPirate]

So what you're saying is that you're not the Target audience for this game...

[@megalodon2012]

You win

[@BoardGameCo]

Well that's just amazing.

[@manuelkooijman5757]

You can see yourself out now. 😂😂😂

[@MacGameCastVideo]

I’m dying. I can’t stop laughing.

[@primusinterpares5767]

lmao

[@karldoughty7996]

It's very difficult to give an unbiased opinion when you have so much love for an already existing game. Very early on we knew it was going to be a slam dunk for TM. I think your previous experience with TM has produced an underdeveloped and unfair view of Ares. I love TM and will be playing Ares next week. I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy it because I'm not expecting it to be in the same league as its predecessor. It won't be as immmersive I know, but I think it will give me a taste of TM with a different style of play which is why I'm looking forward to it.

[@ryankirkpatrick8062]

I think the other issue is that only the base games should be compared same with the draft rules. Unless that is done they aren’t comparable because you are comparing a game that has been improved and perfected through expansions

[@jordanharrison6975]

The intention of the video was certainly not to crap on Ares Expedition but that’s pretty much exactly what happened. Thankfully Jesse acknowledged that the quicker gameplay and less components than TM was exactly the reason for Ares. Unfortunately the video was so incredibly biased that it felt like a huge dump on Ares, which is actually a really fun game…especially for people that don’t want to sit around for 4 hours playing the original.

[@MacGameCastVideo]

The perfect companion to Quacks video! Love the three of you getting together to play or talk. Best BG content around.

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks :)

[@BangersUnfiltered]

I'm holding out for a 10 year TM anniversary edition with proper art

[@ThePetz88]

With better quality of components for the same price because the original was overpriced. 👍

[@BrownEagle]

I’m glad Ares is not an improved replacement for TM, as I’m already fully invested in TM. I hope it finds its own audience!

[@BoardGameCo]

I think it will...but I'm skeptical that fans of TM will be that audience.

[@donbooger]

@@BoardGameCo I think they are going after Race for the Galaxy fans.

[@joeferreti9442]

All the best things from Terraforming Mars are left out of Ares Expedition. What's left in Ares Expedition is just cube pushing and calculating income.

[@BoardGameCo]

Unfortunately that's mostly how we felt. We never truly built up the same engines.

[@TheDarkever]

To me it's the complete opposite: Ares Expedition streamlines the experience by removing a lot of stuff from the original TM that adds several rules without adding the fun. Drafting is the only aspect I miss from the original, but that is sacrificed in name of speeding up the gameplay and it's compensated by letting you draw A LOT more cards instead.

[@Indra_P]

I just want TM with better arts

[@joeferreti9442]

Well, the style the publisher chose for Ares Expedition is not better. That's for sure.

[@m-sousa]

@@joeferreti9442 I actually like the art from AE cards quite a lot.

[@BillySpenc]

Alex :Lets talk about theme. Jesse: HOLD my beer THIS is my time to shine ! :D

[@BoardGameCo]

I know right!

[@guandjs]

I am glad you all spoke up for the art as TM is one of my favourite games and I have never had an issue with the art. It is quirky but works just fine for me. I have tricked out my copy over time but even the base is better than most other games I own. I am looking forward to Ares Expedition as I do like Race for the Galaxy. Hopefully, I will find joy from for it too!

[@robertaustin6302]

I’ve got close to $500 invested for everything TM. Wasn’t exactly jumping all aboard the Ares Expedition KS. I’d be glad to play someone else’s copy though. 😀

[@thomashantgin5124]

you gotta this or that to all the expansions of terraforming mars. let prelude be included for all because it’s essential.

[@Fighterfan69]

After watching this, I'm actually disappointed that I missed the opportunity to get the Deluxe Edition when it was on KS. I do like TM. It doesn't get to the table often because other Tableau/Engine builders are easier to get to the table. This would be one that I would mostly solo when If in the mood.

[@kumanight]

Ah I see you have the Target version ;) I backed Ares because TM is too long for my playgroup so I'm hoping for a shorter tighter TM experience. I do hope they add drafting in an expansion though, man I love drafting.

[@BoardGameCo]

Drafting would help a lot but I still am unsure if it would be enough for me.

[@JohnClem56]

Love Terraforming Mars! Did not back Ares Expedition because even though I see the shorter play time might at times be an advantage if I want to play a shorter game with similar mechanisms I'd just choose Race for the Galaxy. But if I have the time and want to play a game with more depth that really feels like you are terraforming Mars, I'd always pick the original TM! And always with drafting (unless someone is new to the game) and Prelude. Glad to hear all of your views on this one.

[@joshuag7027]

as soon as you mentioned not having to agonize over which projects to buy/keep, I knew Ares probably isn't right for me. I love TM but I still think its too long, but it's sooo good. Also I think a 5/5 being a game that you are sad when people don't like it, is a very relate-able rating

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks :) and yep.... whenever people don't love the games I do....

[@orhan7255]

Great synergy you have here within this group. Really liked listening to you guys. Initially i backed Ares expedition but the more i learned about the game the less i was interested in it. TM checks so many boxes for me - love that game. On the other hand ares Expedition fails to offer anything that might catch my interest which lead to me not backing it in the end. What is a bit confusing to me though. Did you rate the base game of TM in the end or the big box.

[@BoardGameCo]

Base game, l just happen to have the big box.

[@jokerES2]

I think the TM art would be more charming if there was a consistent art style throughout. TMAE at least strives to have a consistent style, though I don't know that I like it. I don't understand why Stronghold can't find an artist to hang their hat on. It has to be easier than Stronghold seems to think it is.

[@EricWoning]

The only reason I've never gotten into TM is the art. I don't think the theme is super involved in Race for the Galaxy... but the art is great - and because of that it pulls me in. TM? It leaves me thinking BLEH. So... I've not played it yet. Ares Expedition, though better - does not hold a candle to RftG - which means I'll alwyas prefer that over this. Too bad though.

[@g8kpr3000]

Someone once said that if you view TM art work the way you would view a crappy corporate power point presentation, then it does match the theme.

[@EricWoning]

@@g8kpr3000 - HA! That is super Meta. Props for the people who can (it certainly does match that though)

[@pnpgutterfold]

After the Virus (another Fryxelius game), is also quite ugly. Don't know why they don't try harder with their art. It really baffles the mind.

[@aarontaylor24]

you don't happen to have a spreadsheet that you could link to your videos do you. Previous rankings of games one so we could suggest play this not that episodes, or when you do kickstarter prototype reviews we could have old rankings of similar type games to quickly look up.

[@callum5257]

Just ordered Terraforming Mars and the Prelude. Excited to get started on the hype-train after years of abstinence.

[@BoardGameCo]

Enjoy :)

[@DJ-mz7td]

Good luck, hope you love it! Let's see if you get the deluxify bug?

[@callum5257]

@@DJ-mz7td mate.. my wallet is shuddering

[@tfdrp2102]

I've played TM once with my gaming group, and really enjoyed it. I know my family would not enjoy the amount of time it takes to play. I backed TM:AE, it showed up last week. My son learned the game before being away for a week, but the wife has learned it and played it 3 times since then (we do not use VP to avoid competitive issues, just play the game to play the game) and she loves the game and looks forward to playing again. So I have to agree with a prior comment that you 3 are probably not the target audience, but there is a target audience out there.

[@dacool561]

Would you say Mosaic fills the TM lite niche better than Ares Expedition? Backed Mosaic and am interested in Ares but may just try to convince a friend to pick it up instead if Mosaic does it better.

[@g8kpr3000]

Interesting review especially when compare to the Dice Tower review which was the opposite. I’ve only played a few games of TM. But I can’t see my self wanting a TM and a RftG hybrid. If I want to place RftG, I will. If I want TM, I’ll play that. I don’t really see the point of this.

[@BoardGameCo]

I know, I watched the 4 squares and was shocked.....we really didn't feel this game....good...but loses all the flavor that made me love the original.

[@alexpascu1985]

Hey Alex, i don't own either of these two but I'm REALLY trying to decide which one to pick up ( don't have access to prelude in my region yet ) . I'm just starting with boardgames and currently searching for a great solo experience. Personally I'm a bit worried about the space and setup that TM would require. Which one would you recommend? Thank you!

[@mugthemagpie3001]

Both games are complex in their own ways. TM is more complex through tile management and aiming for certain profits from the board, while it is easier in aspects like turn order or controllability over new player actions. AE is more complex due to phase cards and the fact unlike in TM if you choose to do Action phase, you dont just activate one action card but entire chain of them, but at the same time AE has advantage of being a space saver and being a compact box. The only thing I disagree with a lot of opinions is playtime. New players will instinctually wait for their turns, unsure what to do and I noticed that in TM we had miniscule point differences (except for one engine we discovered was banned, namely prelude card Corporate Fusion and two corporations I forgot names), while in AE these differences can reach 20+ points. TM, and that's a bit biased, has one advantage over AE: you see how the Mars on the main board becomes habitable. Sure it's an aesthetic, but still.

[@anna-lovisalindbergcarling7557]

The card with the giant check is actually an easter egg. The people on the card is actually part of fryxgames.

[@BoardGameCo]

Oh nice :)

[@ScytheNoire]

Alex, is it the Big Box and 3D terrain that pushed TM to be your #1 game, or was it already there before it arrived?

[@BoardGameCo]

Already was before I got those.

[@boardgametime3727]

Picked up Ares at my local target, really excited to dig in. Thanks guys! Love the vid

[@rogerklee459]

Playing big box terraforming Mars on vacation. What an awesome game. 5/5 no doubt

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep :)

[@georgebell1684]

Is there a place you list your games that you have rated a 5? I have been slowly catching up on your videos, and it appears that your likes are very, very similar to mine. I was curious if there is a list I missed.

[@BoardGameCo]

Actually in middle of working on that :) I have a personal board that I use, I'm in middle of cleaning up to release publicly.

[@georgebell1684]

@@BoardGameCo Cool. I look forward to seeing that. So many games, so little time.

[@shawnkays6821]

Great comparison! :) Yeah there may be people who like Ares and not Terraforming Mars but, given your rating, Ares is still not great compared to alternatives. It's a game someone would settle for just 'cause it has the name "Terraforming Mars" on the box.

[@relativelyboard9959]

ahh Ares, the controversial target version (without the full box art)

[@jessecuster3]

I love Terraforming Mars, as well, but if I picked it up for the first time today, the bad art, the flimsy player boards that sends everything off it’s space, and that the shiny cubes all have 1 corner unpainted, it shows that unless you spend more than the base game box, can you get at least 1 of these problems, fixed. That’s a fatal flaw.

[@BoardGameCo]

I totally hear. I loved it even before upgrading it but I definitely hear

[@Renegade_KT]

Ahh you're kind of killing my hype of Ares. Atm, I feel like our group does not have the time to play to TM, so Ares was looking like a good option. Plus, I like the art better in Ares.

[@randalladkins7452]

If it helps, Tom Vassel is a pretty big voice in the industry and he prefers Ares Expedition. He preferred the quicker time frame, the less meanness, the similarity to Race for the Galaxy, and the better art. In the end it’s going to be what you prefer and what works best for your group. If you want to try a quicker game of TM you can always try the app (believe it is only 5.99 in App Store). :)

[@Renegade_KT]

@@randalladkins7452 thanks 😁

[@dannykdri]

I think Rahdo also said he likes it better

[@kumanight]

Man Vs Meeple also said this game is very, very good. Remember that TM is Alex's #1 game so he is going to be pretty biased against Ares.

[@BoyBoy-tn2lh]

hmm, I love terraforming mars, but it drags quite a bit in the endgame. Tried drafting once, slowed the game down unnecessarily for me when you are drafting all the time, and I like drafting games. A typical 3 player game for me was 3-4 hours even without drafting (though that was before getting prelude). I love TM, but I will definitely check out the shorter game and see what it's like.

[@m-sousa]

Now you are getting me worried. Not that I won't like Ares Expedition (I still think I am, Race for the Galaxyis my 3rd fav game of all time) but that I would be able to find someone to play it with ahahaha Now seriously, you make valid points around here. And I doubted a lot on backing the game or not because of those things. I really like Terraforming Mars and I could see from the videos what it would be missing from it with AE. But I also noticed something else: I think AE will work better in a 2p scenario than what TM does. And it has such a smaller footprint too, which makes a lot of difference if I want to play it solo (have noticed that I am getting lazy to pull out bigger games to play them solitaire lately). Will I prefer to have a bigger game that sits on the shelf indefinitely or a smaller one, quite similar, that I know it will be easier to get to play? I can still be wrong and realize I don't enjoy it, but I thought it was worth the shot. It payed off for Castles of Burgundy the card game. Plus, RFtG!! What else can I say?

[@Sthunderrocker]

I feel like this is the most honest review I've seen so far for Aries Expedition. Everybody else is giving it unnaturally high ratings. Which of course I'm going to take with a grain of salt considering they all came right after a huge backlash with the target Fiasco.

[@BoardGameCo]

People not liking a game doesn't mean they are the only "honest" ones. I've seen 4 Squares dish on plenty of games....did Stronghold pay them more than Final Frontier games?

[@raymondlopez5974]

My first time I played Ares Expedition with my gf- it was an all day Saturday game of like 4-7hrs game play lmao. If Terra forming mars is even longer... lmao- I may just stick to just Ares Expedition. But I appreciate that you guys say straight up Big Box is longer than Ares, cuz paitience is a major factor for enjoying all games. Perhaps that said experience was thee longest game, Myself and my gf have ever played on a boardgame lol, But Im not hardcore board gamer, but enjoy board games and it was a small tad enduring to play enjoyable game so long!! I also loved the Art work of Ares and it has more flare, kinda that mass distribution gameboard corporation beautiful artwork. Which i think is the audience Ares has that it speaks to who may not dig TFM. But I get it! Ares is newer and people have love for TerraForming Mars, the Original-people have experience, memories, love with that game and its just not the same.

[@BoardGameCo]

That does sound like a long game

[@007Kiristo]

I had a feeling Ares wouldn't be worth it having and loving TfM, so I passed on it and I imagine I'd have similar feelings as ya'll did about it.

[@BoardGameCo]

I think it might be for people...but not for TM lovers.

[@shrekage]

Would you say Ares is a good gateway to TM for a group that has not played TM and does not play a lot of heavy games ?

[@dall1786]

That is probably the target audience for this game. Although i would argue that Terraforming Mars is not a "Heavy Game". I can think of at least a dozen+ games right now that are way heavier. IF you are a looking for a game like Ares Expidition i would just go play RFTG. It's just a better game.

[@chopperdan2021]

Interesting comparing your reviews to the 4 Square Review the Dice Tower just did. Yours comes from a group that loves the original game, while the DT crew feels indifferent towards it. Ares Expedition is "meh" for you all, while they all loved it. I think your feelings about TM fit mine (it's my #1 game), so it's sounding like TM:AE won't do much for me. Thanks for the video!

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, watched it today and feel so out of sync with them this time....it happens.

[@DJ-mz7td]

Blood Rage, Terraforming Mars two great games! Ares, ah, what is that, get it of my table.

[@DJ-mz7td]

Off.

[@Sebastian-rt9qf]

Clearly your opinions is leaning to 1 of the 2. But enjoyable video for sure. Don't own the original but only the digital version, which I truly love. Backed the Ares expedition in the hope to play it more like a 'couple-game' ;-) I've had heard very positive feedback to it and some of the same you've mentioned. For me to find out. Can always go to the digital version for a solo challenge (which are quite difficult) or vs AI.

[@BoardGameCo]

Interestingly enough I didn't love it digitally.

[@Sebastian-rt9qf]

@@BoardGameCo that is quite interesting. Could you elaborate? Or its it because of it being digital and being around the table?

[@dall1786]

Sadly the digital AI even on the hardest difficulty is super easy to beat. It's not the programmers fault though. The game just doesn't lend well to AI since you have to make decisions with an eye to the future and some card counting in the process. If i had a choice as well i would play it with others and not digital. The game is way more social and interactive than the average reviewer gives it credit.

[@yuarthur455]

if only you three could do a ankh vs blood rage video together ❤

[@BoardGameCo]

Well, we need Ankh first :)

[@yuarthur455]

@@BoardGameCo are hearing mix review from the people that got it, people who liked it think its the best of the three, people who doesn't think it's the worst, curious on ur opinion 🤔will be looking forward to it~

[@ronnenmoses3436]

“Drafting…” “Drafting, drafting, drafting, drafting!” :)

[@RiHa_Games]

She is getting a taste for doing videos😁 does she have a portal or is this another time warp😅 or both🤔 Glad she listens to your rating system instead of a weird alcohol thingy

[@BoardGameCo]

Portal

[@RiHa_Games]

@@BoardGameCo and again your quicker than I can add another compliment 🤪

[@craigj9181]

Great video! All the reasons you listed for liking TM are the same reasons it always falls flat for me. I'm hoping TMAE will be something I like, Race/Roll for the galaxy style of play is something I have always enjoyed.

[@BoardGameCo]

May well be :) I think this game has an audience for sure.

[@jokerES2]

Quack. I'll never not chuckle when Jesse identifies as a duck.

[@Raistlin2k]

As a Terraforming Mars Super Fan i still need both. If i have Ares Expedition i will not need San Juan / Race for the Galaxy. The Planet Tag you search is Jovian. And i still rember how i flamed the Duck because he said Terraforming Mars is a bad game without ever playing it. And her him quark now about TFM.

[@brianp-c1609]

I'm glad I ordered the Ares version through Kickstarter to pay more for thicker player boards, 17 promo cards and shipping 🙄

[@BoardGameCo]

Those player boards are a must.

[@kumanight]

I'm hoping the player boards and metal cubes are worth it lol

[@donbooger]

Very interesting. I usually align my tastes to Alex's except Terraforming Mars. I have played it about 5 times now (its popular and easy to find a game), I don't think I really like the game. It drags, the cards I get seem to play themselves and I lose interest in the engine I create half way through the game every play. I played draft as well a couple of the times but I just don't really have the interest to strategise enough to put in the extra time to do the draft, I usuallyjust take the cards I can play earlier in the game. I don't know whats missing for me, I would give it a 7 out of 10 I suppose on a good day and Jesse style its purely for the theme, the look of a fully built Mars on the table is really cool at the end of the game. However Race for the galaxy is great, so I was happy to see if Stronghold could get the best out of TM and Race in a game length more like Race for the galaxy. I have mine on the way now. I expect I will like it more as the Dice tower guys do seem to prefer Race for the Galaxy over Terraforming Mars like I do and they seem to prefer Ares over original TM.

[@chrismurphy9932]

I feel the same way, except I'd give it a 5. It's way too long, there's way too much down time, and the card draw is too random (especially for a game that long). I played a game where one of my opponents had a corporation that gave him a discount on titanium cards and didn't see one of those for a few eras, so the corporation was useless for a good chunk of the game. Plus the art and components in the non deluxe edition are atrocious. I think I might like Ares Expedition a bit better so I'll give it a chance, but I'm not going to go out and buy it.

[@borreholic7238]

@@chrismurphy9932 Same here. Tableau building just gives me a too solitaire feeling overall. I see the solidness and greatness, but it's just not "fun" enough. I like it for a 2p experience once in a while, but as a staple game to be played regularly in my 4p group - no, too solitaire for too long when I can get 85% of the experience playing it as a solo puzzle (compared to my prime examples Brass and GWT).

[@KosyakovDenis]

Однозначно оригинальный ТМ круче, интереснее, полноценнее, чем Арес. Но и Арес - достойная игра.

[@scorpian223]

I just picked up AE because of the price. From what I've been told, the main TM needs an expansion or two to flourish. That's just a little too much money for us to invest in a game we aren't too sure about. Looking forward to trying AE!

[@BoardGameCo]

I love TM even just base game, but prelude is a near essential addition. Nothing else is essential in my opinion.

[@kumanight]

Yeah having an essential expansion + really bad artwork makes TM a hard sell (speaking from the perspective of someone who hasn't played TM before)

[@cartergreen2309]

@@kumanight you're not wrong and I actually held off on the game for that reason for a long time too (and because I hate terra mystica and was just like ugh a terraforming game again it probably sucks even though that makes no sense) but it is worth it. After the first play I immediately had to consider if something would finally topple Caverna at my top spot it was that good. There's only been two games that I've even taken 1 second to think about putting them over Caverna and I REALLY thought about this one its that good

[@alexisfougeres6549]

I wish i could buy TM the boardgame with the art from the app

[@pnpgutterfold]

It's sad that the app beats the original source material (board game) at.... sourcing material such as art lol

[@eck3483]

Terraforming mars is on average by me a 6-hour game. I have only completed a game twice, all other times I had to stop in the middle with no winner. Also, from the two games I completed, I realized that the cards give the most points. I'm hoping ares expedition will be completable always, and also it's all cards.

[@cartergreen2309]

How in the world is it taking you 6 hours to play TM?????

[@eck3483]

@@cartergreen2309 maybe 4 hours, but then I have to stop in the middle

[@cartergreen2309]

@@eck3483 I don't even know how's that possible lol what are you doing?

[@eck3483]

@@cartergreen2309 alternating turns playing cards and taking actions, as usual. selecting cards to keep, as such. Also playing with prelude.

[@cartergreen2309]

@@eck3483 just 3 weeks ago I played a 5 player game with 4 newbies 2 of which are super AP prone and playing and teaching took 2 1/2 hours. I really can't imagine what you guys are doing that could even possibly make it last that long lol

[@jacobfulwiler9393]

I own both games and definitely prefer Aries Expedition. It all comes down to pacing. Mechanically, I like Terraforming Mars better, but the pacing is so bad if I could only choose to ever play one of them, it would be Ares Expedition. In Terraforming Mars, even playing with very experienced players, it's common for you to finish your turn and then have nothing to do for 20 minutes until it's your turn again.

[@lotterwinner6474]

I am sure I am not alone that those of us that went big on the Big Box campaign are a little relieved that TM seems like the better game.

[@mugthemagpie3001]

AE isn't less difficult nor shorter game. While it removes some complexicities (Titan and Steel are just price cuts), they introduce other complexicities -- such as phase cards... And the fact you have to control X resource if X symbols cards, as unlike in TM it is not a one time addition but it grows and players have to be vigilant about the symbols. The new ? symbol cards also work differenly in AE, as you have to mark them with token instead of just being a joker like in TM. Also back to the game's lenght: its not shorter. We do 2 hour game with AE while we play up to 3 hours in TM. Also the TM has more clear turn order and consecutive actions, making options more focused while in AE and especially when you choose Action Phase, instead of activating up just one action Blue card, you have to do a chain of actions. And you have to do that with foremost caution otherwise you will be at extreme loss. Also AE has bigger score differences than TM. In TM, the scores between players are mostly 3-5 points. In AE we ended up with a gap of 20+ points. There is also some lack of balance of having forest tiles and not having them, what also was a major reason for these big score gaps, as in TM you can have a card focused player reach first place without a single tile on the board.

[@jonathana6298]

I need to play Terraforming Mars again. Terraforming Mars isn't just a great game, it's one of the 5 permanent games in my collection. All other games are judged from these 5 (in no particular order): Kingdom Death: Monster Battlestar Galactica Secret Hitler Terraforming Mars Talisman: 4th Edition I could throw out all other games and never buy a new game again and I'm fairly certain I could be happy with my collection well into retirement.

[@christaggart5687]

In my opinion, Ares expedition is vastly better. I won’t even play the original anymore

[@gingerscholar152]

Shira has the perfect energy that I would want to see at a convention

[@BoardGameCo]

She's great :)

[@futurescaper]

Race for the Galaxy was in my top ten for years, and is still my most played game at 82 plays. Terraforming Mars is still in my top ten (17 plays)... so I'm looking forward to my KS copy of Ares Expedition arriving, whenever it arrives, to see where it falls in my rankings. Sometimes you only have 30 minutes or an hour to play a game...so you need the right game for the moment... I mean my top 5 games all require serious time investment to play: Mansions of Madness, 2nd edition, Vindication, Western Legends, Twilight Imperium, 4th edition (which is shorter than 3rd edition), and Trickerion (Terraforming Mars is #6)... but the experience and gameplay they provide make the time investment worthwhile. But if I don't have that much time...lets play Race for the Galaxy or Mystic Vale or... Ares Expedition? (I think the other point I'm making is I don't expect the same depth of play from a shorter game than I do from a game that requires a longer time investment)

[@mikec64]

How do you feel about Roll ft Galaxy vs Ares Expedition now? I love RFTG, but... I think Ares brings more theme, more engine building, and even more player interaction. I think it's going to replace RFTG for me.

[@pnpgutterfold]

@@mikec64I'm also interested in knowing what @futurescaper thinks about Ares. The playtime concern is real so the remaining question is how does it compare to RftG (race and roll).

[@xCNapo]

Great discussion, can totally underline it! :) I feel like if you compare playtime to how much control you have over the outcome of the game, classic TFM wins by MILES. And if you compare TFM:AE to RftG, the latter also puts the same amount of control and dense decision making into a much SHORTER playtime. TFM:AE just does not offers a reason to be played if you know it's big brothers.

[@ricardp60]

What! Blood Rage is not your no1 anymore,... OMG ;)

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep :) Slipped to two.

[@jessesamuelanderson9587]

Quack.

[@abandonlife111]

Wack.

[@max6jay]

I've been a little out of touch, I see Shira on both their channels as of late. can someone tell me who she is ?

[@Z3rY]

she is hot

[@JohnnyMcNabb63]

She is just friend of Alex I believe.. started in Boardgameco. Since quackalope and Boardgameco help each other she is on both.. on a video about valor and villainy that was released today. She said it was a couples game with quackalope and they both started to laugh and she wanted it cut out of the video.. so now it seems like shira and quackalope are a couple.

[@Renegade_KT]

@@JohnnyMcNabb63 Was it not in the Volfyirion Guilds video tho?

[@JohnnyMcNabb63]

@@Renegade_KT .. yeah..sorry you are right.. it’s in the dragon horde .. guild .. in the final thoughts.. I’ve watched way too many videos today and got it mixed up

[@Renegade_KT]

@@JohnnyMcNabb63 Nothing to apologize for ;)

[@RiHa_Games]

Sooooo do you like zombie shows 😁 have you tried black summer

[@BoardGameCo]

Nope...

[@tomasxfranco]

Ares looks so much better. Also, It's very hard to believe that even being much shorter it's harder to teach. And if you are comparing variants and a game with 200USD of expansions, it might make sense to wait to compare to the variant/expanded version of Ares.

[@PetrSojnek]

Well base TM is extremely easy to teach, there are only couple of rules... After that you play cards... and most of the cards are not even too complicated (there are a few, but really very few). Action selection with follow up concept itself is complicated enough to be harder to explain than base TM ruleset. Btw many people I know kind of agree that apart from prelude (which helps a little bit with specialization and makes games a little bit shorter) other expansions are not needed at all, some of my friends almost feel it's detrement to game (more rules to learn).

[@jameskyle7943]

NO WAY original is easier to learn. AE is so much more streamlined and well thought out in terms of turn/round structure.

[@BoardGameCo]

Unfortunately there's no way to prove it either way :(

[@adamg4912]

TM is a solid design but it's not my style...and when I want a minimalistic, fast engine builder, I play Res Arcana, so it looks like neither of these are for me.

[@gideonvanzwieten6424]

I’ve bought my KS copy because it will be a gateway game to the real deal (TM original?) shorter game time and streamlined gameplay will help getting it to the table with none boardgame players and might entice them to jump to TM

[@BoardGameCo]

Hey, if you aren't playing TM then close is better than nothing.

[@vladycavret2886]

I was never a fan of terraforming Mars. Drafting seems to be a good idea on the paper, but it makes the game endless. That is why I am more interested in the new version. Quicker, streamlined by removing the board that was almost useless, better art, and still provide a good drafting system with research. I only miss the interactive cards from the original.

[@DJ-mz7td]

Is it me? The Art in TM is fine, not great but good, I like it. But I grew up with Monopoly. 🤷‍♂️ Love the theme, I don't understand the hate. I could go on but let's play TM instead 🤪!

[@nicopapaya1791]

Well reasons i think that could make ares expedition more appealing to some ppl are maybe reducing the time lenght ( sometimes terraforming mars can be veeeery long, no matter what tm fanboys say ). Tm sometimes is very bad on helping you manage your cards, i havent saw a game of tm where people after one point they dont struggle to remember the order and everything they need to do and the way you lay on cards and try to remember all of that is something i think it could have been done better. Last and not least the artwork of terraforming mars is simply bad as well as the components, sorry but i feel it's a rip off to try and resell the same game over and over by upgrading one by one each component to make it look like a real game and even after all the upgrades ( like spending 400$ for a game worth 70$ maybe ) still you just get something decent ( not great )

[@crivgil]

In the end yeah for me there is no point of having both games, like you said if Terraforming Mars classic game didn’t exist, sure, Ares will have chance in my shelf, in the other hand it feels like unfinished game compared with his big brother, sure AE is faster but I don’t mind playing a long game if the experience is much more rewarding, and if I have less time to play I can imagine playing other games instead and save the longer sessions for the classic unbeatable king in the red planet

[@Fudgeemonkee]

One thing you missed is that Ares has a 2P co-op mode. As my partner doesn't often have the patience for longer games, Ares seems more likely to hit the table, especially if there's 2 modes to play it at two but I completely understand it paling in comparison to the OG ;)

[@BoardGameCo]

That's a fair point thank you

[@pnpgutterfold]

This is a fair point. Coop mode changes everything!

[@zmollon]

Why could Ares expedition not have a larger player count and you just do the actions of yourself and your two neighbours? :'( I'm out of breath after listening to Alex summarize TM.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

You don't...you don't pay to keep your cards? I have definitely lost what precious little interest I had in Ares Expedition...

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, they basically removed most of the tension of the game and kept the tableau building... Which still leaves a good game, but not the game I wanted

[@Paul-ro6py]

We don't have either game yet, theme is a little mature for the family. Your passion for the big box game is tangible. Still torn, may have to wait until the children get older for the theme. The size of the big box does scare me a little.

[@rawbeanuk]

The massive Big Box Edition seen there has hundreds of dollars' worth of upgraded plastic components, absolutely not necessary (or even available now the Kickstarter is over outside of eBay) and not part of the base game. If you just buy the game, it's just an ordinary, largish board game box.

[@johnpanagos5835]

I prefer UC :-)

[@DJ-mz7td]

Sorry, what is UC?

[@johnpanagos5835]

@@DJ-mz7td underwater cities

[@ScytheNoire]

The Ares graphic design looks like It's a Wonderful World.

[@BoardGameCo]

Ya I totally hear that.

[@egyptfreaka]

I was hoping Ares Expedition would win me over because I just do not like Terraforming Mars. Now, i haven't played with the expansion but i thought the base game was so long, boring, and very ugly.

[@BoardGameCo]

For people who haven't liked the base game, I still wonder how it will do.

[@tbahr123]

Great video, but you guys are OUT OF YOUR MIND to even suggest TM to be easier to teach than AE. For someone who has never played either, AE has WAY fewer small rules to remember and I’ve found it much easier to introduce to people who don’t play complex games.

[@mugthemagpie3001]

Actually hear me out. Firstly it depends on the players, as I know people who don't get checkers but play monstrosities like TI4. However TM is easier in AE in one aspect: turn order. In AE, the player is given a choice to choose a phase and that creates complexity while removing other complexities. In TM, every round is stable, you can control what new players do and explain the game to them. If you do have to explain AE and players would just make turns one after another... You could just play TM. I noticed that today while playing a 2 player AE and when in TM Blues are just activated one at the time, in AE players are swarmed with multiple cards they have to activate one after another and in the right order to make them work in the most optimal way else they will be behind. The complete newbies playing TM had score differences in literally 3-5 points. AE left them totally behind by +20 points. Also I don't get how AE is a shorter game. It's not, as most games do happen within 2 hours with the same players who play TM within 3 hours, nowadays we even dropped to 2.5.

[@allfunandgames]

Regular Terraforming Mars is infamous for the horrible art and terrible components

[@stevensitesnbo8765]

Terraforming Mars just doesn't resonate for me like it does for most other people. I'd rate it a 3 on this scale. If someone asked me to play it I would but I really don't have to play it again. I have only played with drafting and there are too many cards in the game and it over stays its welcome. Sometimes you start with a strategy and even with drafting never get cards to supplement that strategy and then even with the ability to pivot it could be too late. I also don't like how it doesn't have a fixed number of rounds and that the ending is based on a lot of times the other players to drive the game to its conclusion. It would be a game that if you love what it does and want to play it or dedicate enough times to know all the cards in the game could be a rewarding experience. I'm just not that person.

[@BoardGameCo]

Totally hear those points. I feel otherwise, and I love player driven endings over fixed rounds...so just different tastes.

[@stevensitesnbo8765]

@@BoardGameCo Absolutely. I can see why other people love the game. As you said different tastes. I don't always mind there being an ending that isn't fixed but in the case of this particular game sometimes it causes the game to play too long at least in the games I have played.

[@ShelfClutter]

this is the card game.. .and this is the... card game 🤣

[@joeferreti9442]

Terraforming Mars has a big board and many tiles and so on. Definitely not a card game! In Ares Expedition on the other hand the (small) boards are just secondary.

[@BoardGameCo]

Lol yep :)

[@CheddahSlammer]

From this review, Terraforming Mars Big Box has expansions like prelude that make it better, their fore I don't think its fair to compare it to Ares expedition which has no expansions yet. You should have compared base Terraforming Mars with Ares expedition, however countless times I heard mention of not only the deluxe components from Big Box, but Prelude expansion. I guess is hard to erase what you play mostly with.

[@BoardGameCo]

I hear but disagree....base to base is an easy win for TM. We talked about drafting a lot which is base game, but we only briefly mentioned prelude.

[@joshmartonosi5624]

Are you all siblings?

[@BoardGameCo]

Nope, just share a minority hair color and look :)

[@joeferreti9442]

Although the artworks and graphic design in Terraforming Mars is not perfect, it is way better than in Ares Expedition!!!

[@BoardGameCo]

I like both on that category ...but different aspects

[@cartergreen2309]

What? To each their own I guess but that's absolutely crazy imo lol

[@fingolfinfinwe]

Graphic design of the original is miles better than in Ares for certain.

[@cartergreen2309]

@@fingolfinfinwe agree to disagree lol

[@fingolfinfinwe]

@@cartergreen2309 Note I'm not talking about art. That is certainly subjective. The graphic design however is very poor in Ares.

[@peterriecks9126]

I've tried Terraforming Mars multiple times and it's just not enjoyable to me. It definitely overstays it's welcome. I would totally be willing to try Ares Expedition though because it's quicker and I really like Race/Roll for the Galaxy. I feel like this is a game that could be a good middle ground for me and the Terraforming Mars lovers.

[@BoardGameCo]

Give it a shot, I do wonder how it works for non TM fans

[@ScytheNoire]

Hey Stronghold, if you want to make more money, just sell the Terraforming Mars cards with nice artwork. I find the Ares artwork mediocre, can still do a lot better. So many amazing artists out there.

[@BoardGameCo]

They could easily make a bundle by literally just reselling "every card ever"

[@MaVarcon]

Sadly watching this video was somewhat painful to me. Imo, the strength of the 'Play this, not that'-line of videos was making compelling arguments for both games to make for an interesting arc and keep some suspense. In this video, you were literally shouting over each other to rave about the original and a major point of criticism of Ares was frequently that it wasn't the original, it felt borderline like bullying. :D. Alex even admitted in the end that there are people that really like Ares and don't love the original but neither of you three could figure out what their reasons were - suggestion: Next time bring someone in for the video who does so your viewers can see both games for their strengths. I'm sorry that I'm so negative but I really think this video wasn't doing either of your channels a service, when you sat down and realised that you all love TM immensely and neither of you had any love for Ares, you should've scrapped the idea of using this format for the comparison imo and maybe just done a quick review of Ares summarising your criticisms in a much more concise format (30mins for such a one-sided video was also way too long for me personally). Still love you guys but this wasn't a good one. Hugs, -X

[@megalodon2012]

I agree about the shouting over each other, at one point i thought Sheera was going to jump onto the camera lol. But not liking the video because all 3 enjoyed one version and not the other? Nah. This is the three of them giving their OPINIONS about which one THEY THINK should be played. Find another outside person with a differing opinion? Why? Just for the debate? Nah. Overall good video. Maybe less coffee for all involved next time. Alex, you tried to keep it under control. Sometimes it's tough to keep lovebirds in their seats though lol

[@BoardGameCo]

Appreciate the feedback but I don't share the same opinion. Play this not that isn't about aiming for a balanced opinion....it's comparing two games from the stance of myself and whoever else played them that wants to join the video....we don't specifically seek out people who have different opinions. I did make sure to include the note that we're all huge fans of TM to confirm that bias so to speak, but the idea that all 3 of us see no real reason to play this again is relevant information for those seeking opinions on this game. It's not bad....it's also not Terraforming Mars.

[@kumanight]

Only time I felt like they were being unfair is when Jessie kept bringing up how things from the expansion were better when they're only comparing base boxes. Alex corrected him each time though. Also there's no way TM is easier to teach than Ares that's the bias talking lol

[@relativelyboard9959]

I was trying to put my finger on why this one just did not click as the other videos in this series. And I think you nailed it. They did not even attempt to share some of the positives of ares. I know they are diehard TM fans but they really seemed to be overselling TM at the expense of ares.

[@swvi9459]

Don't play any TM game. Play On Mars. Easy. Moving on

[@DJ-mz7td]

Wait, what?

[@swvi9459]

@@DJ-mz7td TM is most overrated game ever made. Play On Mars, not TM. Its very simple

[@redeyedghost1406]

What do you have against Terra Mystica??? ;-) On Mars is definitely my favorite Mars game. The more meat on a game's bones the better for me though.

[@bradwurstdk3374]

I dont quiet get it. Not a lot of talk about playtime. Mars with alle ekspansion is like 120min+ and Ares is like 60min plus it’s playable on less space. If Mars is a 5, then it’s a 4. And a less version of Mars. As it should be

[@robotzombie3546]

These ppl need to shut up for 1 second and breath.

[@carlosalmeida9144]

Damn.. that's one of the biasedest opinion that i ever see on youtube rofl

[@davidpackman2733]

disagree on drafting. makes a game take so much longer . . .

[@BoardGameCo]

It does...but so much better too.

[@RenbroNL]

I don't like the art in Ares Expedition either. But come on the original game is horrible. To the point that so many people haven't even given it a shot, you hear this all the time. It's the number 4 on BGG! Crying shame. I jumped on the KS in a way that I never do. Because it doesn't has that achilles heel.

[@fingolfinfinwe]

Art maybe slightly better (but that's subjective). However graphic design on the new one is horrible - MUCH worse than the original.

[@82ndmi]

I'd flip it. I like race for the galaxy, I can't get that to the table for a multitude of reasons from bad components to art and iconography. I like terraforming mars, I can't get it to the table as much because again it's ugly, overplayed, and the component quality just doesn't wow before you start sinking $400. a regular person sees those games and it's everything they fear boardgames to be. Tfm ares is set up in a minute, the art is beautiful, it plays coop or competitive, it has 0 barrier to entry. TFM ares is just a quicker better punchier way to get the same brain feel and decision making of both systems in an hour. I personally won't touch galaxy or tfm outside of the app again as the one thing paper has over digital is the more complex expansions and that expansion content is down right unbalanced, drags on, is hard to integrate and remove, and just drags down the experience. I'll miss the drafting, but I don't need to add 2-3 hours onto a game to draft, especially for a game that still ends up being wildly random at times regardless.

[@BoardGameCo]

Totally hear....for myself if I want something shorter I would play something else. Ares doesn't give me the tm experience I fell in love with

[@ByDylanYoung]

So, am I alone in 'shipping Quacks and Shira?

[@JerreMuesli]

Terraforming Mars is a great game but the Big Box was just an ugly cash grab