Terrorism, Israel, and Dreams of Peace (with Haviv Rettig Gur) 11/18/24

[@kandilula]

Excellent analysis as always. So grateful for how Haviv weaves all the threads together so we can understand this conflict more clearly. Thank you.

[@inka12877]

I can listen to Haviv talk for hours!!! He is an amazing story teller and a historian… Thank you for this!!!

[@orrperetz7099]

Everyone in the world need to listen to him

[@Dan-ku9mt]

GOD! I LOVE Haviv! I literally comb the entire net and youtube for anywhere he might appear. He has SUCH a unique gift transforming the very essence of what some may call the zeitgeist or the heart of complex abstract concept into an articulated, package for all to grasp in (mostly) simple terms. May Hashem bless him in all that he does.

[@spyrop.8428]

I literally search youtube every second day for "haviv rettig gur" Dude made it all make sense for me.

[@michaelkapnick2295]

I use to chase Jerry Garcia around back in my youth (both with Grateful Dead and his solo stuff). Now it's Haviv on you tube!!! : ).....maybe we should start making tiedyes : )

[@DDBb993]

I do the same. Just like Dr Einat I learn so much.

[@ab.boskany]

Haviv Gur presents a remarkably compelling argument, characterised by nuanced analysis and a sophisticated integration of historical and contemporary perspectives. His ability to contextualise complex dynamics with clarity and precision elevates the discussion, offering critical insights that warrant further academic exploration. This level of discourse is both thought-provoking and intellectually enriching.🌺

[@annalink4351]

As you know, the situation for us American Jews has been undergoing a change. Regardless of the coming administration no one knows what the future has in store, but one thing is certain--- anti-Zionism will not help appease our enemies.

[@davereynolds3403]

@annalink4351 enemies ? i live in south africa and we have no enemies. my best friend is swiss. switzerland has no enemies. why do you have enemies ?

[@annalink4351]

@@davereynolds3403 You tell me-- Why have the Jews had and still have enemies? Do you know any history? Are you 2 years old?

[@tarafreedom2584]

@@davereynolds3403 because antisemitism is still an unknown phenomenon!

[@thomasaswidler]

More than 50 years ago I was able to spend a day with a small group of Americans and the editor of Beirut’s Express Orient, long since murdered, discussing a compromise solution to the Israeli vs Palestine impasse. At the end he explained that Americans just don’t get it. There is no compromise possible. One side will win and the other will lose. Before you decide which side you want to be on, consider this. Everywhere in the world where Jews have been left alone to go about their lives, the Jews have prospered and so has everyone around them. This is the way the world should regard Israel.

[@bellyfiore1]

I have listened to all Haviv,s talks this past year. I wish to thank you for my education, .

[@kmentemt]

Always special to learn and Listen to Haviv Rettig Gur ❤

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Not gonna lie. These EconTalk episodes on the whole geopolitical issues of the Middle East are more contextual than the Legacy News Media overall even if you disagree with the opinions that were said. I genuinely thought this was better than episode 956 featuring Sam Harris. 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

[@delcysteffy5896]

Haviv is so good. Thank you both

[@cortezcabret9408]

Thank you for this truth. The whole world should hear this. One word about this Algerian analogy- should go without saying, the French have nothing to do with Algeria except colonization, whereas Israel is the Jewish homeland.

[@davereynolds3403]

@cortezcabret9408 correct. the french upped and left. lsrael is more like my country South Africa. when we ended Apartheid, some left (2 million) and the rest (4 million) agreed to share the country with the locals. many have married locals and tribalism is not such a thing anymore. will the Jewish people allow their daughters to marry Palestinyanz when Apartheid in lsrael ends ?

[@superhugful]

​@@davereynolds3403 Were the intermarriages in South Africa different religions? There are already some mixed marriages between Jews and Muslims but generally people seem to want to marry within their common religion. I think you cannot compare South Africa with Israel in this case

[@joge2468]

@@davereynolds3403 No comparison. Js are indigenous to Izzzrael. If you don’t know this, you cannot possibly understand the conflict.

[@yehudithyakobson9325]

I never asked so many of the questions Haviv just answered..so much to learn and

[@michaelkapnick2295]

A masterclass by Haviv. Thank you for this. It is so informative. I am going to send it to Ezra Klein : )

[@batshevajengoldman6260]

That’s was a life changing discussion for me. I’m a relatively new immigrant to Israel from the US and Haviv put into words what I’d been sensing about the difference between US and Israeli Jews, as well as giving the background of Israeli current events. He explained the historical, cultural psyche of the people I live with. Thank you.

[@johannessobanski7306]

Again, what a fascinating and insightful conversation; many thanks for that.

[@helenezonana]

I love listening to Haviv and his wisdom. He always has a different insight to the story. If people went back in history and understood the moment when the Displaced Persons had to choose where to go, and they said: Palestine. That’s what gets me to the core. It’s a story of redemption and decolonization of the Jewish People. No longer the Jewish man with trembling knees, indefensible against the annihilation of its people. I agree Israel is redemption.

[@purpleflame334]

Haviv is very romantic about Palestinians not being Nazi...

[@raeli731]

Having Rettig Gur is a brilliant man! 👏🏽👏🏽

[@Unmoved12345]

Superb analysis.

[@noraabramson7054]

I wish EVERYONE WOULD LISTEN TO THIS!

[@spi19991337]

This was amazing. Thank you both. 🙏 Shalam.

[@bellyfiore1]

Third time listening to this talk. So educational.

[@friendlylaser]

Wow, very illuminating. I certainly don't see no two states now at least for a generation.

[@helenezonana]

I don’t see it, ever.

[@Kyzyl_Tuva]

Damn! What an enlightenment. Thank you Russ and Haviv.

[@Santirata]

WOW, great conversation!

[@hizakamit]

Haviv is spreading the truth , his words are of great value and must be heard .

[@adaptiveagile]

You couldn't have found a better guest.

[@mikesadventures]

Haviv must have drank some extra strong coffee before this talk.

[@AboutMyGeneration19]

This is SUCH an important conversation. Haviv always brings an incredible depth of knowledge, always conscious and empathetic to both sides of a narrative, and backed by facts.

[@gfutub]

What Haviv says from 1:57:23 is literally what has been happening to Palestinians in Gaza. That being said, Haviv needs to be added to the international platform more than has happened so far. Every word and experience from him is valuable.

[@luckynumberzeroes]

Best overview of the Israeli and Jew POV I ever heard in such a short lenght, good job Haviv

[@jfoxcroft627]

Excellent, excellent analysis! Thank you!

[@tarafreedom2584]

Haviv you are brilliant! 👏👏🙏🙏🙏

[@noraabramson7054]

Quoting Golda “Israelis have no other place to go”

[@davidgoddard5532]

The USA is talking about sanctioning Kaan & other people in the ICC with Magnitsky Act sanctions on their banks & credit cards. The USA funds the UN nearly half it budget!

[@noahman27]

That was an invaluable conversation showing us where we are today and how we all arrived here. Thank you fellas. Bless you and all Am Yisrael, her friends, and champions, all the IDF, all of Israel. Amen!

[@shonlondon7566]

Left in the middle east is like chicken for KFC🤪

[@yanivreif7379]

Left in the Middle East are mostly classical liberals at this point….

[@allibeck21]

Haviv, you have taught us all so much in this podcast. Even those of us who thought we know something of Israeli history. The last 20 minutes I listened to 3 times. Grateful 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱

[@jedinxf7]

spectacular history and analysis. really should be viewed by anyone looking for insight into the conflict, the peace process and the changes of view within the Israeli electorate over time.

[@johnjackson1449]

What a great interview. This really highlights the fact that anyone who tells you the I/P conflict is "simple" in any way, is full of shit.

[@ronin428]

This was a great conversation. Thank you for this. I feel every bit of your frustration. I wish there was something to shake the Palestinian’s continued belief in the Algerian method of anti-colonialism. It would be very interesting.

[@yanivreif7379]

There is a way bot sadly it involves the use of force (until hopefully there will come a generation of Palestinian elites that will prefer to look at the future and not at the past). This can only happen if they will come to the understanding that the war that was started 1948 ended in their defeat and it can’t be won…

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Hypocrites in this comment section really got triggered because I asked Russ to do a seperate podcast episode on the political ideology of Zionism. Absolutely wild dawg. 💀💀💀😭😭😭

[@ronin428]

@ did you miss the last 30-45 minutes of this episode? It’s all there, dawg. It’s always helpful to comment after watching the video. Just saying.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

@@ronin428 I listened to the audio podcast before commenting in all fairness. However, it's still a fairly reasonable suggestion. Not sure why some people are against it bruh. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@ronin428]

@ So why ask for a rehash of something that’s in this episode? Was it unclear? Russ has done a whole lot on this subject. His previous ep with Haviv, with Hillel Cohen, Dahlia Scheindlin, Daniel Gordis, Matti Friedman, Yossi Klein Halevi…all probably have answers to all your questions. (That’s like 10-12 hours of conversation.) Plus all of those people are authors/writers who have books/articles on this topic.

[@emsee90210]

Haviv we need people like you in control

[@ErikWeijers]

This is really enlightening, also the parallel with the Algerian war. It helps framing the apparent insanity. Thanks for having Haviv on.

[@YvetteBurke-v3o]

Excellent!!!

[@natibar001]

Thank you.

[@maieuticogre]

Haviv is unparalleled.

[@ElizabethEllisCoach]

❤thank you

[@maliniM-ze2yh]

Haviv should bring his thought process to after Oct 7th and stop romanizing the palestinian arabs who want to eliminate Jews. Stop repeating your version of the intefeda at every interview. It is tiring and nobody wants her hear about it.

[@dennisash7221]

A very interesting recounting of history from someone who lived it. Most westerners would simply not be able to understand the depth of what has happened there not just because they were not there but also becasue Jews are a pragmatic people they don't go around crying or shouting because something went wrong they get on with dealing with it and trying to find the right way out.

[@maria9567]

Can somebody break it down for me why/ how Jewish identity called into question the organic validity of the modern European identities in the 1920s, as per Herzl’s novel, which I haven’t had a chance to read ? Haviv’s one sentence can give you a week of work to do.

[@MayaBloke]

While Israel physically withdrew from Gaza in 2005, it maintained control over key aspects of Gaza’s borders, economy, and security. The idea of “leaving them alone” is therefore only partially accurate. Israel no longer polices Gaza internally but exerts substantial external control, which critics argue amounts to a form of continued occupation. The policy of responding militarily to any threats from Gaza remains a core part of Israel’s approach

[@gfutub]

Also, Haviv maid Russ cry 😄❤

[@bettymulders7641]

The powerstrucure was seen as the whole of Israel not a part of it, In fact the Palestinians did not want to share the area, they wanted everything , from the river to the sea

[@bettymulders7641]

Like in Algeria. Israel is conciderd to be a “ colonial “ state

[@eddyr1041]

Always end up , stuck on the status of jerusalem

[@amouri7792]

Haviv is fun to listen to but he is still a settler.

[@yanivreif7379]

Well, settler or not he ain’t going anywhere

[@tamarravon6638]

Riveting!

[@Babaghanoush77]

I dont and didn't view the Palestinians through the prism of nazism. Even though I was fully aware of their leaders associations with nazism including the nazi war criminal the grand mufti of jerusalem who had massive influence over their cause. It would however be foolish to view them and their cause through that prism. I have simply used 5 letters to understand them I.s.l a.m. if one understands islam and its 1400 year history and not the post modern history we are fed then it's much easier to understand the palastinians the middle east and what's happening in Europe

[@yanivreif7379]

Haviv is only partly right about Nazisem. Nazism and before that the Germany had a lot of influence in the Middle East in the two decades before WWI and after WWII. The grand mufti was part of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Hamas are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. This doesn’t make the Palestinians Nazis but it’s meaningful and relevant to other part of the Arab world as well. I’m just reading a fascinating book about it: Nazis, Islamists and the making of the modern Middle East.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

🤡

[@yanivreif7379]

@ how about you go read a history book first before calling other people names you ignorant

[@luckynumberzeroes]

As in Jesus (not Judas though?) was Palestinian?

[@senadbajrami4292]

Long live Bibi Netanyahu

[@DanHowardMtl]

What I still don't understand is that there was an election but only 1! Why couldn't the international community force elections every 4 years. There should have been a fixed date for elections and it should have been enforced.

[@BaraPlaylist]

No... you dont get to both control them and tell them "you vote for a real goverment that has standing"

[@yanivreif7379]

And if Hamas would’ve take the governance by the use of power who will sand troops to fight them in order to enforce democracy!? No one… It’s an empty threat. The fact is they need to take responsibility for their own fate and future.

[@DanHowardMtl]

@@BaraPlaylist WTF does that even mean? Eventually even insane people would eventually vote for parties that provide you with running water and electricity, no?

[@DanHowardMtl]

@@yanivreif7379 It should have been FORCED elections. The people there are pawns and this is why this is never resolved.

[@superhugful]

The opposition was disappeared

[@camilofl]

Good análisis. The effects of the Algerian model over the Palestinian leadership are a huge factor. But there wasn't a single mention to the effect of the settlers over the Palestinian public opinion and how it reinforces the most violent narratives among them. The big conclusion is that Israelis will use force over the Palestinians till there is not more conflict. Sadly that implies the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank and the end of Palestinians as a people. Israelis will do to Palestinians what the USA did to the natives but at the same time claiming to have XXI century values.

[@yanivreif7379]

There were no settlers or settlements in Gaza and yet here we are

[@talathaque2904]

In the subcontinent of India and Pakistan we have a saying about "intelligent crows" ......... crows are considered to be one of the very intelligent animals ............. its called "siyana kawwa ...." ............. so in the end it eats shit . You are intelligent about things, but in the end you will eat dirt [ to put it politely] ........... your history teaches you that - if you will learn from it.

[@luckynumberzeroes]

Very.............Intere..........Sting

[@YOGAthletica]

While I appreciate your commitment to showing both sides of a very complex story, here’s the challenge: Israel has lost the war of words. That has manifested in anti-Israel rhetoric that can literally destroy the Jewish State on both the political and diplomatic fronts. It has also manifested in deep antisemitic sentiment that has put not only Israeli Jews but all the Jews in the Diaspora at literal risk of our lives. Not to mention the social and professional implications of being Jewish and/or Zionist anywhere in the world today. The Palestinian media narrative (both social and mass media) is 100% biased and completely un-nuanced against and incriminating of Israel and all Jewish people. While the intention of conversations like this are moral and honest, spending so much conversational capital explaining and largely defending the terrorist Palestinian cause puts one more nail in the coffin of public opinion against Israel and the Jewish State. We, as supporters of Israel, can’t keep complaining that we are losing the war of words when our own supporters are using so many of their words to denigrate the Jewish State.

[@yanivreif7379]

Where did you heard denigration of Israel in this conversation?

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

@@YOGAthletica Supporting Zionism is problematic considering the similarly to Communism. 🤡🤡

[@mariannakazakova7482]

@@FlamingBasketballClub Zionism and communism have nothing in common, it seems like you don't know what these terms mean

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

@mariannakazakova7482 You really are that dumb huh. 🤡😂

[@YOGAthletica]

@@yanivreif7379 I was trying to find the right word. It's not denigration, but justification of the fight against Israel. I'm not even saying the truth shouldn't be said but I think we truth-tell to our own detriment when the war of words against us is so strong.

[@TB-sz9nt]

Yes, Gur's talk does sound cluttered and confused, and wrong.

[@evamurray2564]

At least learn how to write English correctly before launching into an ad hominem attack.

[@BaraPlaylist]

@@evamurray2564 Ah, now you have convinced me

[@luckynumberzeroes]

Can't wait to hear your 2h analysis of the other side's POV. You do understand that it wasn't a script but a one breath conversation?

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Russ should do a full podcast episode based on providing legitimate criticism towards the political ideology of Zionism in my honest opinion. 🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃

[@yanivreif7379]

Did you even listened to this episode? Being a Zionist is not a political for most Israelis. You can call it whatever you want but for us Zionism is what saved us, nothing more.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

@yanivreif7379 Such a clown world response. Shows you didn't listen to this episode. 🤡🤡🤡

[@yanivreif7379]

@@FlamingBasketballClub Listen to what he is saying from 1:57:00 If you actually listened to this conversation you didn’t understand anything that was said. As opposed to you I’m an Israeli so I know exactly what I’m talking about. As Haviv said: “what’s the fourth option?”

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

​@@yanivreif7379 Just say you understand my original comment bruh. I'm convinced that you listened to parts of this episode. 💀💀💀

[@yanivreif7379]

@ I’m telling your framing it as a political ideology is wrong (as Haviv explains very eloquently) so your whole request of Rus is a bizarre request given the way he understands Zionism.

[@veridianacarvalho9209]

Couldn't pass the 10 min.... this guy wants to talk in a poetic way but he is boring as hell

[@joge2468]

lol. That’s your TikTok brain talking.

[@luckynumberzeroes]

You don't read much poetry do you

[@Jonathan-o1q6q]

Only tells one side of story sad

[@Jonathan-o1q6q]

A manipulative speaker who just picks talking points