Is Israel Occupying the West Bank? (with Eugene Kontorovich) 7/1/24

To international law expert Eugene Kontorovich of George Mason University, all the arguments that make Israel out to be an occupying force collapse under the weight of a single, simple fact: A country cannot occupy territory to which it has a legal claim. Listen as Kontorovich speaks with EconTalk’s Russ Roberts about the legal issues surrounding occupation as well as the moral issues of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians. They also discuss the crazy-quilt legal environment of jurisdiction in the West Bank in the aftermath of the Oslo Accords of 1993. Finally, they explore the likely outcomes of current proposals for a Palestinian state in the West Bank.
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[@davesax11]

Kontorovich is correct on International law. Can't apply a different standard to israel than elsewhere.

[@annasillanpaa1111]

Int'l Court of Justice has stated that Israel is occupaying the Palestinian territories, Gaza & the West Bank. This is yet another liar Zionist BS channel.

[@annasillanpaa1111]

You clearly have no clue of the int'l law. The highest world court, ICJ, that Israel is occupaying Gaza & the West Bank. So claiming anything else is a lie.

[@davesax11]

@@annasillanpaa1111 Sadly not so. Not even close.

[@frederickremington8758]

The 19th century Jews who settled in Palestine were not colonialists but refugees escaping Russian pogroms. Unlike the French colonialists in Algeria, the Jews carried no national flag. The Jews that settled in Israel following Israel's War of Independence were also refugees from countries they had lived in for three thousand years. We should also include the Jewish DPs that no one wanted follow the liberation of the Nazi death camps.

[@levantinian]

The fact that they were escaping pogroms in Russia doesn’t make them indigenous to Palestine. It doesn’t change their character as colonists. Many colonists fled their country of origin because of persecution; they’re still colonists.

[@beniluv3250]

​@@levantinianyou are right, sort of. Reason they went to Sham, or Palestine, depends on the years, is that the empires who controlled the land have let jews back in. We were prevented from living there by many muslim, and sometime christian, rulers. Every time one of them was a bit more forgiving, we moved back.

[@luismijares1461]

religious refugees from Europe constituted a large part of the initial settlers to America and no one seriously debates the US started as a colonial project.

[@luismijares1461]

@@beniluv3250 no you didn't, in 1492 when there was a mass expulsion of Jews from Spain the Sephardic Jews who fleed the Reconquista settled in Greece and Istanbul the economically more prosperous parts of the Ottoman empire. To this day the majority of Jews in the world live outside of Israel.

[@practice4523]

This matter has been litigated in court and Izryl has lost... again

[@johnstewart7025]

If I accept his argument, I then would ask what are the legal standards for a legitimate government. I imagine those are very low, indeed.

[@robertbentley3589]

Uhh. Enough. Ffs

[@levantinian]

Um… is this seriously a question?

[@levantinian]

So let’s say it’s not technically an occupation. (Nobody agrees with you about that, but let’s just say.) Does that make you feel any better about the fact that almost 3 million people live there (Palestinians) under Israeli military rule? And answer this, please: if Israel wants to be viewed as the legitimate authority of the WB, why doesn’t it give Israeli citizenship to the Palestinians? Are you content with the apartheid system where only 300,000 Jewish settlers have rights but 3 million Palestinians don’t?

[@sandytatham3592]

Israel should extend sovereignty over Judea and Samaria, aka West Bank, and then offer "residence status" to the Arab occupants. Residence status would give them equal civil rights, ie. education, health, employment opportunities, security, and civil voting rights so they would have autonomy in their own Arab cities. There should be a pathway to full citizenship when they can pledge allegiance to the Jewish state of Israel, like the East Jerusalem Arabs have. Those who reject the offer should be financially assisted to resettle in another country. UNRWA must be dissolved because it has the main goal of perpetuating the 'refugee status' which uses these Arabs as pawns against the Jews.

[@levantinian]

@@sandytatham3592 while I disagree with your proposed way forward, I do appreciate that you answered the question in good faith. Can I ask - if you are in a position to know the answers - how widespread your view is among Israelis, and if it is a popular view, why nothing like it has been attempted?

[@sandytatham3592]

@@levantinian: There are other ideas that Yishai Fleisher set out in his 2017 Opinion Piece in the New York Times called "A Settler's View of Israel's Future" which you might find interesting. If you follow Yishai Fleisher's KZbin channel you will get to know that these options are gaining favour amongst many Israelis. Things have to move fairly slowly because it's such an emotional issue for those involved. The current Gaza war has taken the focus, and maybe Israel's power brokers are waiting for a change of US government and/or for the Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas to pass away to see what reaction that brings? My main goal is for the future generations of children in the Palestinian Territories to have a chance at a better life.

[@levantinian]

@@sandytatham3592 why not do the most just and most obvious thing: give citizenship and equal rights to everyone in Israel/Palestine?

[@sandytatham3592]

@@levantinian: The government of Israel's first duty is to protect its own citizens, including the 25% non-Jewish Israeli citizens, mostly Arabs who are Muslim and considered traitors by many other Muslims. The Arabs in the disputed territories would very likely not accept citizenship of a Jewish state, so what's the point? They have made it pretty clear that they want all of the land with no Jews, as per Quran 2:191. All 'Palestinians' who are still hostile to Israel should be assisted to resettle elsewhere by UNHCR or by using their own initiatives. My country Australia has expressed a willingness to take some more in. If the 'Palestinians' do accept residence status they would have equal civil rights, and the next generation of Arab children will not have been indoctrinated in UNRWA schools. This is a process that will take some time.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Can you do a episode on the importance of medical freedoms and human rights?

[@waterfall1100]

A fair and balanced discussion

[@gregorykent3482]

Eugene was excellent, great research about key questions

[@arlenegojocco7518]

Such an excellent Q&A!!! I learned a lot! Such discussions help to the support and expose truth! Thank you! 😊

[@annasillanpaa1111]

A Zionist liar channel inventing int'l law. What he states is completely against the int'l law. The Int'l court of Justice has stated completely differently from this pro-Israel pro-genocide pro-war crime hoax guy.

[@gheller2261]

Eugene really needs to work with an elocution coach. Hard to listen to with the constant "uhs" between each phrase.

[@LOPEKJJJ]

Where’s the land acknowledgment recognizing 3000 years of Jewish history in the West Bank? The WB is REAL Israel, where Jewish history and civilization developed. This place is core of Jewish identity. When Jews thought about the land of israel this is where they thought about. Jerusalem, Shiloh, Bet El, Schem, Bet Lehem, Hebron. From Ephraim to Binyamin to Yehuda.

[@chrislesner]

When white Europeans show up to claim parts of Africa as their "ancestral homeland" because science clearly shows their ancestors came from Africa and science shows these ancestors lived there for thousands of years, etc how might you reply to their claims?

[@sandytatham3592]

@@chrislesner: Indigenous rights have a fairly specific description: "Indigenous Peoples are distinct social and cultural groups that share COLLECTIVE ANCESTRAL TIES to the lands and natural resources where they live, occupy or from which they have been DISPLACED." ~ World Bank. The Jewish people were acknowledged as the indigenous people of the Holy Land in 1920 at the San Remo Conference. Their right to reconstitute a national home was enshrined in the British Mandate for Palestine which was ratified by the League of Nations in 1922, "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country". Over two million Arabs TODAY are Israeli citizens with equal rights to Jews and other minorities of Israel.

[@MB-eh4ss]

What is the legal term of people coming from all countries around the world to a pice of land inhabited by other people and ethnic cleansing them then declare a state ?? (: It's settler colonialism

[@joshfranklin9941]

Ah, like the hundreds of thousands of Arabs who emigrated to the Palestine region in the late 19th century and early 20th century, and whose descendants dupe people like you into believing that they have ties to the land that go back centuries?

[@joshfranklin9941]

Btw, Israel is 20+% Arab citizens. There are virtually no Jews left in any of the Muslim countries. But yeah, keep criticizing Israel for "ethnic cleansing" - it's beyond obvious that you just hate Jews.

[@allagamarnik3237]

Are you talking about the United States?

[@MB-eh4ss]

USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand could be yes. However, they apologize to the indigenous people there and give them full rights. They don't distinguish rights based on religion or ethnicity. However, Israel practices ethnic cleansing and occupies the land of Arabs (Muslims and Christians) living within Israeli borders. Although they have citizenship, they don't have the same rights as Jews. The West Bank is occupied by Israel, and inside it, Jews have rights that are not given to Palestinians, although they live side by side. So, the situation with Israel is much worse as it's a pure example of an apartheid regime.

[@gregorykent3482]

Originally Jewish, Jews expelled, but some remained continuously, Jews massacred, Holocaust, expelled from Arab states, UN offered state, Jews accepted, Arabs attacked, Jews won war. In what universe is that settler colonialism. Which country btw was not formed at some point by settler colonialism?

[@gheller2261]

Please, when referring to the Arabs pre-1964, don't refer to them as the Palestinian people.

[@lodewijkvaneeghen4006]

Note: The UN-partition Resolution, uses the terms "jewish state" and "arab state" (not "Palestinian state").

[@Dennis_Barnes]

I wish roberts would quit doing these. Glib, one-sided.

[@gheller2261]

Facts are facts. Thus, not "one sided."

[@Injustice360]

Can you interview John Mearsheimer?

[@user-eh7nr9mk6l]

.. let's take Crimea, as Putler did in 2014 - lol

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

3:00 Bro ignored that referendum as well. Talk about hypocrisy.

[@canadaboy5005]

How many times did he say "uh, umm"? Very difficult to listen to

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="180">3:00</a> Gotta disagree with Eugene when he said Crimea is occupied by Russia. Bro really forgot about that referendum huh. 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@sandytatham3592]

That referendum was disputed or considered illegal.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

@@sandytatham3592 But it wasn't illegal 🤡