Testimony: Former boss of Oxford shooter's mother takes stand at her trial - Part One

[@Moe1313-2]

If you knew your kid was depressed…why would you buy him a gun??? Mom made sure she had health Insurance.

[@patrickslomka2017]

And she made sure her personal needs were satisfying.

[@Sweetpea064]

I think she was hoping he would use it on himself so she could be free to be with her boyfriend without having to pay child support… she needs that money for her precious horses.

[@IFChi1904]

​@@Sweetpea064exactly! You got it!.

[@nightknght]

They wanted him to off himself with it

[@Sweetpea064]

@@nightknght 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@sunnin1671]

Health insurance is expensive. but they’ve already shown that the parents were spending over $1000 per month on their horses. They made those animals a priority over their son and his well-being. And ultimately over the safety and well-being of the community.

[@itsjustlaurel1531]

Didn't even get him health insurance on her work plan.

[@savedbygrace9933]

Yes, and she made sure to pay for health insurance for herself. Who does that? A selfish person, that's who.

[@lemaniaindigo]

And they spent a lot of money on toys, bb guns, air guns, and all those packages in the photos. Pretty sad.

[@TakenTook]

Yes, the entire family could've been covered on the company health insurance policy for what they were paying for the horses. They were neglecting their kid for so many years. Just horrible parents

[@happybergner9832]

​@@itsjustlaurel1531that's just plain backwards. Our children's health is one of our first priorities.

[@HereForTheComments990]

Again: THEY ARE NOT ON TRIAL FOR MURDER. The parents are NOT being accused of the crime for which their son was convicted (murder). They are on trial for INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER. The key pieces of evidence: 1) They ILLEGALLY purchased a HANDGUN for their minor child. 2) They failed to lock the handgun away, as required. 3) They did that KNOWING their son was mentally unstable and prone to violent/destructive outbursts at home. Between the criminal acts and the negligence, their behaviors led DIRECTLY to the murders of 4 kids. This trial is unprecedented. But it probably SHOULDN’T be. How many school shootings may have been facilitated by negligence and criminal behavior of the parents? How many? Parents with guns, do better. Obey the laws. Take care of your kids. How hard is that? If you’re not going to take care of your kid, maybe don’t break the law by buying a handgun for him. Easy solution.

[@kimberleebishop-vanheulen1640]

I have a {recently} adult son who has had outbursts his entire life, he was finally diagnosed with ASD at age 16.5, WAY too late to receive the necessary services he needed when he was younger, but now insurances are covering more types of therapies without having an ASD diagnosis, back when he was younger, the type of therapy that was repeatedly recommended (ABA therapy) was not covered by BCBS and many insurances because he didn't have an autism Dx, only ODD and medication-resistant ADHD. Anyway, my point is, just due to the fact that he had explosive episodes of anger his entire life, my husband would NOT ever consider having a firearm in the house. It's called "COMMON SENSE" people. It's just responsible parenting!

[@birdly3850]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@cristineconnell7803]

Children can use many things to cause mayhem in crisis! Many tools around homes are extremely dangerous, not just guns! It starts & ends with the parenting, and lack there of in this case!

[@Barbara-ch3qf]

I keep thinking the Sandy Hook shooter’s mom might have been tried as the crumblys are being tried if she hadn’t been the first person he killed. She was really nuts in leaving guns accessible to her son even though he was so mentally unstable

[@darlingdeb7010]

@cristineconnell7803 agreed, but the original comment isn't blaming the gun. It's blaming the parents for being irresponsible with the gun, which should piss all of us gun owners off since safety is our #1 thing we preach.

[@quinnhen2325]

What really bothers me, among other things, is Jennifer sent multiple people copies of what he had drawn/written to various people. As if to say, “my life is so stressful, looky looky what my son has done that I have to deal with. Woe is me.” She was trying to get attention and sympathy when she really should have been extremely worried about her son and his cry for help. Both parents are self absorbed idiots. I still can’t believe no one checked his backpack. That is ridiculous!!!

[@darlingdeb7010]

I get sending it to her boss, though. They usually need to know whats going on in order to work with their employer.

[@raph3156]

Or she was sending a signal to all the accomplices and adding context.

[@AndeLikeTheMint]

​@raph3156 Okay I'll bite. Accomplices? She sent it to her horse boarder and her boss. What could their involvement possibly have been in your opinion

[@CharlotteFerrariBreton]

@raph3156 Sure prosecute and jail them too. Hell Jail EVERYONE in that town! How stupid are you? Really?

[@joannewilson1483]

A family in chaos a sad child he seemed to get material items his home was a mess anger builds a modern family horror that flowed over many people

[@lisachalmers5687]

Jennifer spent more money on horses than her son's health insurance. Ethan wanted to call doctors but he knew the financial burden it would be on his mom. That is the final straw for me, she deserves her punishment. Bad priorities created a lone shooter.

[@bonjovirocks24]

I am disgusted with that bathroom they all used. Nasty. How can you afford horses and not Magic Erasers to get rid of that moldy shower? 🤮

[@jenniferhansen3622]

​@@bonjovirocks24That sounds gross, but how did you see the bathroom?

[@emdiar6588]

There will always be people with mental problems. There will always be a 2nd amendment. The US will continue to lose a class full of kids and a teacher or two, every couple of weeks and we'll continue call it "freedom" without a shred of irony.

[@anniezion]

​@@jenniferhansen3622Huh, they now show accused people's bathroom's in court? (🤢)

[@IFChi1904]

​@anniezion Ethan lived worse than a dog, his mom has money for everything except for him.

[@julianyc422]

your son just murdered people with a gun you bought him and your first thought is to text your Boss and ask not to be fired.

[@darlingdeb7010]

Technically that's not the first thing she said. That's like the 3rd or 4th thing. Plus, she's going to need a job to pay for an attorney. Jobs are important.

[@Hope8x28]

While it's not the same type of trauma, when my husband has a sudden health crisis and I was told he might not survive the night, my mind absolutely went from horror to what do I need to take care of in a matter of seconds. Sometimes it's almost like a survival instinct I believe. Thankfully my husband survived but I now have addressed some of those concerns I had that night.

[@EllsworthJohnson-ui1xm]

I thought it was to sell her horse

[@happybergner9832]

🙄how would she pay for her horses?

[@jonwilliams7671]

Yeah this is for sure one of the dumbest things the mom did or said. It sums up her whole mentality

[@sari5045]

The fact that insurance for her and her son would have been 400 dollars = 800 a month??? Is a crime unto itself but if she would have chosen her son over having 2 horses, stop going to the bar, and whatever else, she would have had the money to pay for her son’s insurance. Priorities.

[@cristineconnell7803]

Totally agree!

[@jfraserfisher]

Maybe she shouldn’t have affairs and horses and she would have the money and time for her son!

[@June-tb4vi]

Yet millions of illegals get free health care! Our country is a mess!! Every child should have free medical insurance!!!

[@Aesthetically_unpleasing]

@@jfraserfisherwas she having an affair with the boss in the video?

[@tinalayton7133]

Yeah you can’t say she couldn’t afford insurance. She spent more on the care of her horses. 😢

[@norahstuart9147]

When she was called to the school about the drawing why didn't she say he had access to a gun? She could have checked his bag or asked him about the gun. Why didn't she take him home? Instead she tried to downplay the situation. How would she feel if her child had been shot? She should have got him help. The school were kept in the dark and only told selective information about his home life.

[@annebosworth7048]

Totally agree...

[@sherrymejia5759]

Absolutely! I thought the same thing! Why didn’t she check his bag

[@rondarivadeneira172]

True! She didn't care about that boy! She sure didn't care if he was a wild card and could had gone off....but she was worried about how she would be perceived! The dad was just along for the ride!

[@rondarivadeneira172]

I always checked my sons backpacks...they wanted to bring toys to school... Parents have to be right on it all the time...or don't have a child!

[@raelyneannelli6678]

☘️: And can’t forget, the prior day when teacher called Jenifer about her son’s 👀 looking up information about Bullets…Jenifer’s response to her son, whom she knew was falling behind academically…she responded to her son on Facebook, “Don’t worry (about the teacher’s concern…You’ve got to learn how to NOT get caught❗️” So many examples of Negligent Parenting❗️

[@kimberleebishop-vanheulen1640]

I have a {recently} adult son who has had outbursts his entire life, he was finally diagnosed with ASD at age 16.5, WAY too late to receive the necessary services he needed when he was younger, but now insurances are covering more types of therapies without having an ASD diagnosis, back when he was younger, the type of therapy that was repeatedly recommended (ABA therapy) was not covered by BCBS and many insurances because he didn't have an autism Dx, only ODD and medication-resistant ADHD. Anyway, my point is, just due to the fact that he had explosive episodes of anger his entire life, my husband would NOT ever consider having a firearm in the house. It's called "COMMON SENSE" people. It's just responsible parenting!

[@369blueneptune]

Hats off to you and your husband. Very sensible and responsible. Thank you.

[@TwiztidPain]

Thank you and your husban for being responsible, and not blaming guns. I truly feel bad for this child in this case he never asked for this upbringing he had. I hope one day he can appeal, getting a second chance at life. His mother failed to get him the help he need when he was clearly reaching out for it. That was not on him, but he should be held accountable for taking the lives of those people. I don't know how long that should be, and maybe one day if god sess fit an appeal will be granted.

[@Pugetwitch]

😂😂 I was diagnosed with autism when I was almost 40 after a lifetime of abuse, let me tell you now it's not way too late for your son for anything. I wish I would have been diagnosed as a high schooler, my life would have been much different.

[@Pugetwitch]

😂😂😂 I Gotta Laugh again. I also have had anger issues but I've been a responsible gun owner in my entire life. I was raised around Firearms by World War II veteran. Guns are not things that you go pick up when you're angry. Their tools that you only take out for self-protection.

[@HLB313]

That’s wild that he had diagnoses of “medication-resistant adhd” (in itself says it’s not or not just adhd as ADHD medication has by far one of the highest success rates of any prescribed pharmaceutical, some psychiatrists try medication AS a diagnostic tool) but also ODD/PDA which is for the most part considered an ASD comorbidity, and still think it can’t be ASD?! Glad he’s being better understood now!

[@nettricegaskins1871]

When I was 12 years old I picked up a telephone book and called the first woman child psychiatrist I saw listed. She agreed to meet with me and my mother. She also told my mother I needed help but she was too expensive and she referred us to a more affordable clinic. My mother cared and wanted me to be happier. Crumbley did not give a darn about her kid or his happiness.

[@Jennifermcintyre]

💔 Ethan’s life was ruined by not getting the help he needed before he spiraled.. where he ruined countless lives… these parents make me absolutely sick for caring more about everything but the vulnerable life they were intrusted with 😢

[@cristineconnell7803]

She finds out her son did it & asks for lawyer recommendations for herself! NOT HER MINOR SON! So telling!

[@TakenTook]

During another part of the hearing today, they played a videotape of her sitting in the back of a cop car. She just has an annoyed, but calm demeanor. She's not crying or worried or asking if her son is OK or if if the other kids are OK. And then at one point she says to the cop "I know my kid was the one who shot up the school, so why am **I** the one sitting in the back of the cop car?" Such a selfish horrible person. She always cared more about herself and her horses than her baby.

[@janehoffman1200]

She knew she needed a lawyer for her son at that point.

[@TakenTook]

@@janehoffman1200 -- Yet she and the father both hired private lawyers, while the son ended up being represented by public defenders. Although the son's public defenders actually did a fantastic job, and I would argue were more thorough, more professional, and probably more effective than Jennifer's attorney here.

[@cristineconnell7803]

@@janehoffman1200 She at no time went to hire her son an attorney! She was concerned about herself first & foremost!

[@kareyrose]

@@cristineconnell7803well her son qualifies for a public defender and she doesn’t and yeah there is some great public defenders out there so that really doesn’t mean a whole lot

[@Mooner123]

If I’ve ever seen a prime example of someone who shouldn’t have been a parent, JC is it! She makes me sick

[@raelyneannelli6678]

☘️: And can’t forget, the prior day when teacher called Jenifer about her son’s 👀 looking up information about Bullets…Jenifer’s response to her son, whom she knew was falling behind academically…she responded to her son on Facebook, “Don’t worry (about the teacher’s concern…You’ve got to learn how to NOT get caught❗️” So many examples of Negligent Parenting❗️

[@Pittiebabe]

Now that u said it I also remeber that text about ignore the grades

[@julianyc422]

Family Gun?!?! It was her mentally ill son's gun, which she plastered on Facebook as the gift she bought her mentally ill son.

[@CharlotteFerrariBreton]

When I was 15 my father bought a Ferrari car. He said it was mine. I bragged on my social media and at school that it was mine. My dad took me driving around in it when I was 16 he was always in the car with me when I tested it. Was it really mine? My dad paid for it, he had it in his name. He "gave " it to me in the same wat these parents gave their son the gun.

[@bluevalkyrie8981]

@@CharlotteFerrariBretonEthan claimed that he had gave his dad the money to pay for said gun. It was his gun, that he paid for through the help of his dad.

[@CharlotteFerrariBreton]

@bluevalkyrie8981 Good luck proving that. Plus it is not true. When I was 15 my father bought a Ferrari car. He told me it was mine, I bragged on social media and to my friiends that it was mine. My dad would take me test driving it from time tk time when I was 16. Always was with me when I was driving it. My father bought it. It was in his name. Legally, who did the car belong to? My father bought the Ferrari for me just like Ethan's parents bought the gun for him. FYI Nothing illegal about buying a gun in America. NOTHING.

[@bluevalkyrie8981]

@@CharlotteFerrariBreton the kid testified in court to it and honestly, the kid, as mentally unstable as he was, has been more trustworthy and upstanding than his own parents. Here’s why: He repeatedly made attempts to get help. He repeatedly tried to get his parents to pay attention. He had repeatedly told them he wanted therapy. He had repeated told other adults he wanted therapy. He had repeatedly asked other adults for help. He had repeatedly asked other adults to pay attention. He had told other kids he was having problems. He had told other kids he wanted to harm people. Everyone failed him. Every laughable fail-safe we have in this country to prevent school shootings failed him. Yes, the kid is an abhorrent person. He committed the ultimate atrocity. He murdered other children. However, he was the most responsible person in his own family. Hell, in this whole damn case! He was the ONLY person willing to recognize he was having a serious problem and needed to face it head on. His parents ignored it, told him to “suck it up”, and bought him a gun with his own money. The kid had said it was his own money and I believe him without a single blink.

[@joannewilson1483]

This mess bleed out from this home it was a mess a hoard caps the whole thing is a modern family wreck

[@roxannapastor3347]

is it just me or is this defense lawyer a bit of a sore on everyone's side?

[@JillyMae89]

Definitely. She sucks!

[@white6delta]

I couldnt imagine being married to her

[@mauiswift6391]

Yep

[@SharonLKirby]

It's not just you!

[@sharonrynne2242]

😂

[@SharonLKirby]

This defense attorney's cross was a waste of everyone's time as far as I can tell. Her strategy is to make everyone share responsibility for what happened -- but this guy is totally not involved.

[@tiffanyholman4028]

I wish I had half the time to do my hobbies as Jennifer did, but alas, I have kids to pay attention to.

[@rrosen7370]

Defense attorney appears like a high schooler 😮

[@susanshew2373]

Prosecutor doesn't seem so intelligent. . . lots of "ums".

[@Ad-Lo]

Don’t insult high schoolers.

[@kimberleebishop-vanheulen1640]

I just started listening to the trial and went back into some prior trial dates and yeah this defense attorney seems too green for this, she seems to have an argumentative and petulant attitude. I realize she's supposed to have an argumentative demeanor as a trial attorney but it seems she's arguing about irrelevant issues.

[@tartnouveau3652]

She quoted Taylor Swift in her opening statement

[@maxineismyhero]

I said a 12 year old.

[@esmeduplessis941]

She was going crazy AFTER the shooting and her lawyer is hammering on that, but the parents should have gone crazy the previous day for they were the only ones aware of the gun. I don't like judging others but, especially the mother went crazy and hysterical a bit to late...telling this child to learn not to get caught, what kind of parenting is that??

[@lynnkayee1015]

And laughing at him as her husband tells him to suck it up after asking for help. And ignoring his frantic messages about being scared of demons in the house. 🙄

[@SirSmorbie]

That's a mom who is trying to be her child's friend. My guess is she didn't know what to do, so she was just trying to be a buddy in hopes he would confide in her.

[@cristineconnell7803]

She has only seemed to be working to cover her own hide with no care or concern for her son or the dead victims! Thoroughly disgusting!

[@cristineconnell7803]

​@@SirSmorbieI don't think she was even trying to do that! Just the bare minimum, if that! Make a pretty surface picture with no content! Big screen tvs & plenty of video games to occupy Jr so Mom & Dad could go play!

[@IFChi1904]

Do you know who used to say that to her kid? Pablo Escobar's mother... I'm not making this up! his mother said the same to him: "I'm not mad at you Pablo, but you cannot be a fool, you need to learn how to don't get caught!". No moral, no values at all.

[@cathybenadaro]

The defense attorney is way overly dramatic and acts like she is on the high school debate team.

[@tinab3627]

Children aren’t just for posting cute pictures of them on social media. Having children is a HUGE responsibility and requires dedication, time, commitment, patience and a lot of money. It’s also important that you enjoy it. I’ve raised two children who are now adults. Motherhood and raising them was/is the best part of my life. If you can’t fulfill all of those needs, then don’t have them. You’re not doing them, society and anyone any good. ,

[@Missstrish]

That why I chose not to, but my 2 show horses cost me and my family more than $20,000 a month.. yep. They are very expensive I may foster one day, but my whole life since 2 has been riding dressage and jumping. I have 6 godchildren and all my friends beg me pls do not have them because I wouldn’t have the patience.

[@wrmlm37]

Ethan asked for help in every way he knew how. He was isolated with little know,edge of HOW to get help, for himself. In my birth family, if we sought help OUTSIDE the family, on our own, it would have been unthinkable. James is not at all like my gun-loving Dad. We were frightened into NOT TOUCHING HIS GUNS! This was in the 60's-70's, last CENTURY. Dad was a hardened alcoholic who would never have tolerated his first 3 born, all sons, to TOUCH his guns without permission...my dearly departed, ALCOHOLIC Dad would never have had this scenario in HIS house. NFW! My 2 eldest bros fought with fists. Me and the 3rd son, were as timid as church mice for over 2 more decades, until adulthood felt like our "new" norm. This is pure BS and neglect of a child, and it breaks my heart first for the children who have lost their lives, and then, for Ethan. He surely KNEW thjs was wrong. He knew those drawings should have gotten his mother's atte tion, finally..,and yet, they did not. THAT is why she is on trial and why I wish for some years to be added to both parents' "time served". Sick, neglectful, f-cks.

[@mellie4174]

Oh please. He was seen by the school therapist the morning of the shooting. He knew how to get help....

[@IFChi1904]

​@@mellie4174he's not a therapist, he's a counselor who manages more than 400 students. The Crumbleys lived with their son, they only had one, they knew he was mentally ill and they decided to give him a gun. But it's the counselor fault 🤡.

[@barbbeulah7139]

I agree, he was calling out for attention from his mum, but she wouldn't give her full focus to him, I really don't like how she treated ethan

[@HLB313]

Just the timeline of his grandma dying and them taking him out of school for 3 weeks to go and clear out his house, his dog dying and then his only friend being taken away with no notice, and none of the hobbies she listed actually being currently happening and her not getting the relevance of that in her testimony is heartbreaking. That was his entire support network because they certainly weren’t.

[@HLB313]

@@mellie4174he already had the gun in his bag and had planned this out in his journal. The meeting lasted 12 minutes.

[@sharonrynne2242]

So if he's been laid off, why did they buy another horse? Especially at that expensive boarding facility? Craziness. Too bad she wasn't more nurturing to her son.😢

[@Star-hk6gc]

Also husband was not working. So I don’t understand why the son could not have gone home with him.

[@ShiraLaya0312]

@@Star-hk6gc he was working for Doordash

[@lizzieb6311]

It is absolutely INSANE. I own a horse…I have no kids and my home is paid for. If not for this I would not be able to afford one horse, much less multiple horses. I’d be SELLING my horse(s) if I or my spouse had lost his job. It is EXTREMELY expensive and you better have plenty of readily available cash to handle day to day expenses that horses require on top of the monthly board (mine is $875 per month). Not sure the caliber of her horses or the extent of their training, but to get anywhere near a decent horse you’re shelling out a minimum of about 8K to purchase a horse - more commonly 10-15K for a finished horse.

[@intorainbowzOG]

a loss (or gain) of a Job is a qualifying event that would let her add the whole family to the health plan outside of open enrollment.

[@100Mickl]

When horses needed treatment monies for vets etc money for their board

[@TheDarstarr]

Does that irritating defense “lawyer” ever ask an ACTUAL QUESTION or does she just make statements and tell witnesses how they feel and think?!

[@nancyja7592]

Is this the defense attorney’s first case? She seems so inappropriate at times. Just annoying to me!

[@loveforeignaccents]

Sure seems like it, but no.

[@savedbygrace9933]

She's been practicing for 19 yrs, and has been Jennifer's defense atty since 2021.

[@stephie640]

She tends to defend pedophiles and pervs usually.

[@pickledragonrebel]

She's awful !

[@rebeccamay3076]

The defence attorney proves anyone can be a lawyer.

[@masshomegrower]

All these new lawyers passing the bars did school virtually. It blows my mind they were able to study law over a screen

[@barbarawebster9786]

I can’t stand to listen to this defense lawyer

[@flashflame4952]

The parents MUST face prison time! They didn't do anything to help their damaged son!

[@Resell_crazy]

Well it was made loud and clear she was getting him help the day she was told he needed it. That helped her case

[@janephillips3627]

@@Resell_crazy : True, but she knew if she didn't that day, the school counselor told her he was going to call CPS.

[@kathystreet7751]

So let’s feed the horses, but not get health insurance for our son we see where her priorities were

[@dakotacoren6936]

Ethan was on his dad's work insurance

[@pamorama]

@@dakotacoren6936 I didn’t see that reported anywhere. Where do you get that information from? They’ve repeatedly said that his father was laid off and unemployed at the time.

[@dakotacoren6936]

@@pamorama Jennifer said that at one point. Besides, let's assume the parents let their health insurance drop at some point, it's not a crime. It doesn't matter if she fed her animals while they didn't have health insurance. It's Not a crime. Those throwing stones at this woman should take care lest karma come round and the mob comes for your decisions!

[@pamorama]

@@dakotacoren6936 first of all, she said a lot of things that were disputed on the stand. Second of all this is part of a whole package of evidence that she did not care to seek mental health for her son, who continually begged for it. I mean you’re lecturing me about some thing a woman dead who’s been convicted of manslaughter, so seems like you might’ve missed the point of the trial, she didn’t give her son mental healthcare when she had every opportunity to do so including the option to provide health insurance for her son. And her husband did not have health insurance for the child. That’s the whole point of why the prosecution brought that up.

[@pamorama]

@@dakotacoren6936 oh, my God, you’re logic or lack there of. This woman’s son killed four people with a gun that they bought for him illegally. As a result of their actions for people died the connections are very clear and that’s why she was convicted. There is no mob mentality happening here it’s called justice, and a very meticulous system to ensure that. This particular case is so seminal because of the Marion ways in which this kid screamed out for help and was not given it by his own parents. You act as if everybody’s kids go out and shoot up a school and kill people. How comfortable are you with a 15-year-old with mental health issues who sees demons receiving a 9 mm semi automatic for a Christmas ? Would you want this kid living next-door to you? It wasn’t because she fed her horses that he shot at the school, but she prioritized things improperly obviously.

[@LynetteA68]

Boy oh boy she’s aged 50yrs!!!

[@hordeslayer5223]

She had to give up smoking in jail, which explains the weight gain. The lack of hair dye and makeup is deliberate, intended to give her a harmless, grandmotherly look

[@Alisa-kz7wd]

@@hordeslayer5223 Yes and the disheveled, dirty hair to make it seem she’s a emotional train wreck sorry for all the trouble her son has unleashed on the world

[@January.]

​@@Alisa-kz7wd*an emotional trainwreck

[@lee-lee2418]

Desperate fire guy, wow, unbelievable 😳

[@juliadixon8465]

@hordeslayer: she is probably on antipsychotics for sleep. Their side effects include massive weight gain, esp if you're actually not psychotic, but suffering intractable insomnia, as I'm sure she has been.

[@piyoweb]

She didn't even asked time off work.......was she planning on just keep working the next day.....? Really????

[@LAM77719]

Smith looks "thrilled" to be there.

[@everlastingomni1737]

😂

[@nattycasper2022]

So... in this questioning, its mentioned that Ethan's dad is laid off. But in the questioning of the school official, they both said they had to get back to work and that's why Ethan stayed at school instead of leaving with them. I'm confused. Was the dad working or no?

[@HeyYouGirls]

@nattycasper2022 He was in between jobs and doing Door Dash at the time

[@jordie1234]

I know his dad was doing Door Dash but doesn't that mean he can make his own hours and could have easily taken Ethan home?

[@cheshirecat888]

​@@jordie1234 yes, but they were sh*t parents

[@January.]

*or not?

[@amandah.3763]

@@jordie1234if the dad was Door Dashing he could have easily kept Ethan in the car with him.

[@christinec7892]

The judge is so wishy washy

[@lisachalmers5687]

Remember this is a case that will be setting precedence for ALL PARENTS with kids who commit crimes. The judge has the difficult task of being the mediator between the very ambitious, well funded prosecutors and the small team of Jennifer. This case will be picked apart by every law class coast to coast. The judge has a responsibility to protect the rights of the innocent until proven guilty.

[@MarazMuzik]

The Judge is the worst. Even worse than the emotional defense attorney. This trial is a circus

[@BantheBans]

Son shoots up school "Please don't judge ME I need MY job." Total narcissist...how can herself or her job really be her first concern?

[@blippi7542]

The house was a pig sty. No discipline at home. Ethan didn't have a chance with these parents!!

[@lee-lee2418]

Out of all of MI and beyond, Meloche couldn't find ANYTHING better?!?! 🤪

[@JCP58]

This is the smallest courtroom I have ever seen.

[@ThatsMyBlackOpinion]

😂

[@January.]

*courtroom

[@MarazMuzik]

Will be interesting to hear dad's side

[@patralink]

It's amazing to me how anyone who lived in that horrible house could ever land a job with anyone. Looking at her house would be a big red flag. "Family first culture" at her work place is so funny!!!

[@jeremybeall2219]

Taking a gun to school, I still remember the 1990s when the issue was taking Cigarets to school. American Public Schools have taken a Nose Dive.

[@Mr2004MCSS]

I was in high school in the 80's in rural America and a lot of the boys had guns in the rack in their trucks on school property and no one thought anything about it. No one back then shot up schools around where I lived. Our culture has changed because guns have been around forever.

[@Pittiebabe]

Schools haven't taken a nosedive. The gun culture is what's taken over america

[@janephillips3627]

@@Mr2004MCSS " Mental illness and most of these shooters are neglected, no Good role Models, etc.

[@Adrienne-ij9by]

Something work, schools are smok efree zones. Now, we must work on keeping the schools, gun free zones.

[@marshajohns4635]

The dean of students and the counsler deserve to be fired. Three times the teachers went to them about what ethan was doing in class. And they didnot even call his parents. On the day of the shooting the counsler said he wont hurt anyone here, but ihest dont wnt him to hurt himself. What a shame, they could of stopped this. Now they are saying we had no reason to look into his bag or his locker. Really they had three reasons handed to them before the shootings.

[@Sochi314]

The counselor did call the parents. He explained why he thought Ethan was suicidal but didn't have all of the information presented in trial. Dude said multiple kids at that school either committed suicide or had suicidal ideation. Not excusing what theories he had but he explained why he felt the way he did.

[@RW-to2fy]

What does being an alleged good worker have to do with being a sorry parent who allowed a gun to be purchased and brought into the home where her son Ethan murdering son lives

[@mirandawise2528]

Easier to say now. Suspend the student for reasons of health and safety. Parents then forced to take responsibility. If they don't, contact Child Protective Services for intervention and removal of student to get support.

[@KarenanneT]

As an outsider (Australia) I believe this law will definitely help in reducing school shooting…eventually parents will get the message. Great job Michigan 🫶

[@Skummerz19]

Her lawyer reminds me of how I used to do presentations in high school. I wouldn’t then try to wing it 😆

[@bornfree0507]

So if they didn’t have the horses expense they could have afforded a family insurance plan.

[@jenniferhansen3622]

Exactly. Their priorities weren't in order.

[@dakotacoren6936]

Ethan's mom and dad each had work insurance. Ethan was on his dad's plan.

[@jenniferhansen3622]

@@dakotacoren6936 I wonder why they didn't get him a therapist then?

[@dakotacoren6936]

@@jenniferhansen3622 obviously Jennifer is telling the truth, she thought Ethan was just a quirky teenager. She underestimated his criminal potential. That's not a crime!

[@jenniferhansen3622]

@@dakotacoren6936 Well, I think if a kid is begging for help, the parent should probably get them help. Then if it turns out to be nothing, so be it, but at least they got them help to make sure. Therapy is wonderful even for something like anxiety. It also would show the kid that their parent really does care and listens to them.

[@SmilingBeaver-ou7nc]

Besides the lack of insurance for his mental health, this child was not covered for any illness or operation. Imagine if he was diagnosed with a form of cancer. This is disgusting.

[@veronicabatteham9864]

I'm thinking that as parenting has reached a new low ,and some kids are creating kaos ,She might be made an example of , as a warning to parents that kids are their responsibility 🙄

[@LightInsights]

Unless the state or the school doesn't want you to be involved. That usually pertains to sexual matters though

[@al25354]

The defense is awful. 😂

[@LightInsights]

I know the defense attorney is maddening, but the state isn't doing a good job either.

[@michelle14749]

She was working to support the whole family, the dad wasn't working amd had all the time in the world to help his son. Not all mentally people commit evil acts. Its time to stop equating mental illness with evil.

[@nataliemeenakshithegreat7780]

She did her best I don’t think she should be punished or pay for her sons crimes and determination to kill not all mental illness turns you into a killer don’t put this hard working mom to jail her only crime is her weakness and ignorance and the son whose nature is the one of a killer if someone puts a gun in my hands I would be scared yes she is dangerous we can hate her for buying the gun it’s crazy iam in paris France 🇫🇷 now kids here that age moms don’t buy guns for their sons kids don’t use gun to kill this killing spree is sadly part of the American culture

[@gingin169]

The defense attorney has an unusual way of asking questions. It’s as though she’s putting words in the witnesses mouths. “You would agree with me”, “I’m correct when saying”, “It’s true when I say”. Not sure if this is in effort to confuse or just her way of talking.

[@NothingButTheTruth-en9ec]

Yeah, it’s called “leading” and there should have been objections every time.

[@sirgregsalot]

You're allowed to lead a hostile witness. You can object to counsel leading their own witness, though.

[@haroldor1]

jennifer's lawyer is not very good

[@lauraditchburn1857]

I think that if Jennifer Crumbley had shown shock, regret, sorrow and compassion for the victims the jury may have entered a different verdict. She came across as hard, cold, defensive and uncaring.

[@cm1642]

The defense attorney parrots the questions of the prosecuter and then poses leading questiins. So hard to listen to.

[@Resell_crazy]

Yes but she stressed the question was she going to get him help...yes Did she seem worried for her son Did she seem like a good mother... And the high cost of insurance why no one can get it for a family and she was getting at the fact that she was filing for the family plan on enrollment.... It actual helped her case...we all know she wasn't a parent she could and should have been but stressing her frame of mind at that time makes a jury think differently.

[@maryjackson1194]

Attorneys are allowed to ask leading questions on cross. They just can't lead their own witnesses.

[@MarazMuzik]

And she never asks. It's always statements. Way too emotional. Her voice is always shrill like mine gets when I'm upset

[@January.]

*prosecutor *questions

[@pdaddyg6846]

When did Pam Beesly go from being a receptionist to a defense lawyer?

[@twintasticboys3499]

Did the parents give any REASON as to WHY they bought a gun for an underage and emotionally unstable boy ? Not that ANY reason would ever be something a responsible and caring parent would do.

[@KRistyrose978]

⁠@therealz360z7 but he didn’t use his dad‘s. He used the gun they bought for him as a present, just three days before he did this.

[@janephillips3627]

twintasicboy3499: The parents didn't think he was underage and emotionally. They are idiots. Sounds like to me the parents were very Depressed people and could not focus. The had No clue of Reality. This happens with people that are depress, they make Bad deccisions, no Reality in their life, etc.

[@janephillips3627]

@@KRistyrose978" it was a 9mm, wouldn't you?

[@KRistyrose978]

@@janephillips3627 wouldn’t I do what? I’m sorry I don’t understand gun talk.

[@KRistyrose978]

@@janephillips3627 no I wouldn’t purchase and I especially would not purchase a gun for an emotionally/ mentally disturbed minor child I don’t care what level of gun it was.

[@jayjoy331]

The defense's council is a joke. She's an immature drama queen. Who acts like she's still in high school. She's supposed to be a professional adult, and a mother. So she should be able to focus despite any small distractions. I can't stand adults who still act like children. Hey! That's probably why she's the defense attorney for this specific defendant. They're both on the same level mentality and emotionally. They're both bonkers!

[@Jennifermcintyre]

Worse yet… she’s defended a horrible sxual abuser of MANY woman.. USA Gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar … she lost that case and he’s got a life sentence.

[@carolinskeep8106]

It looks likely mom and dad are throwing their son underneath the bus. Shame shame

[@fld9201]

I think he threw himself under the bus: along with throwing four innocent people into their graves.

[@Snoozysusie]

The parents will do anything to save themselves from their reckless parenting

[@patricias5122]

That is an astoundingly high amount of money for health insurance, still she should have purchased it. But wow...we still need health care reform in this country. If she lived in Latin America, Canada, Europe, Africa....she wouldn't be paying those high rates. I'm not excusing her, but that's horrible that we have insurance rates that high in America

[@janephillips3627]

patricias5122 : Correct BUT the Country's you mention have VERY POOR Healthcare and in Canada I know they have to wait Months to see a doctor, and many die before their visit.

[@Adrienne-ij9by]

what countrky are you in? It takes months to see a specialist in this county too, the the trick is you gott hlave insurance. @@janephillips3627

[@pickledragonrebel]

​@janephillips3627 that's bs. I'm Canadian. I have numerous health issues and have always gotten the help I need. Judt like every other countr, the pandemic has caused problems with our health system. It's not perfect, but at least I don't have to worry about going bankrupt just so I can be treated. Don't believe all the crap you read on social media.

[@pickledragonrebel]

​@@janephillips3627and btw, where do you read that? Disinformation.

[@VioletJoy]

I wish all lawyers and judges would avoid using "ummm". It's so annoying and is a bad habit.

[@jennifers8843]

It would be nice if we could hear the judge ever

[@EdwardLaberge]

Can't believe the health cost. Terrible

[@savedbygrace9933]

My health insurance just for myself is $850/month.

[@karenlee4892]

Jennifer is so inappropriate. You don’t show your boss your child’s disturbing drawings. It’s unprofessional which doesn’t matter in hindsight but shows her inability to distinguish appropriate professional lines. Also she showed the drawings to the barn owner - who is 27 and not really her friend. She doesn’t seem to have any female friends bc she doesn’t value other women. Puts extra effort into affairs rather than friendships. Messed up priorities. Also 1/2 brother tried to live with them. Maybe Ethan wouldn’t have been so lonely had he had his sibling there especially during pandemic.

[@janeferguson4455]

scary thought to have J. Crumbly as your marketing director... I don't see her being a big producer of business for this or any company !

[@bee8076]

Reading everyone’s comments about health insurance costs absolutely breaks my heart. 😢💔 People shouldn’t have to spend a majority of their paychecks just for monthly coverage that they may or may not utilize. When I was a recent college graduate, I remember forgoing insurance because I wouldn’t have been able to sustain myself with the remainder of my measly paycheck. I hoped things would have been better by now. 😢

[@Adrienne-ij9by]

Obama care is for the working poor.

[@Riley0509]

Wouldn’t you get insurance for your kids before yourself?

[@melbaashley5706]

I don't think the defense attorney is reading for this

[@michladd24]

I know it hear say, but I have talked to several people who went to high school with Jennifer Crumbley and they all said the same thing about her, "she is about her self only". Finding out that she didn't have insurance for Ethan and the fact that she sent a text to her boss about keeping her job really pisses me off! Yet, this is even after I talked to her friends 20 plus years ago.

[@AlexandraW-f3s]

Makes sense she was very self serving. Should have never had a kid.

[@DawgMama]

I'm sure she's a real p.o.s. but I find it bizarre to ask around to people who knew her in high school. She may be a scum bag, but she is not guilty of manslaughter.

[@darlingdeb7010]

I wouldn't hold that to a high standard. That's a very long time ago. People change and grow up as they age.

[@LynetteA68]

@@darlingdeb7010she doesn’t appear to have grow or changed much. The above description seems pretty accurate to what she’s displayed thus far.

[@AlexandraW-f3s]

@@LynetteA68 I agree w you

[@jayjoy331]

$500 twice a month is inexpensive! Why the heck is my health insurance so expensive, at $1,750.00 for two adults and a baby? And that's not even for full coverage. And dental is another $300-$500

[@Gemma2269]

That is more than a lot of people make in a month. $1750 a month is way out of reach for a lot of people. Reform is definitely needed, especially since we are providing full health care for illegal immigrants.

[@carolgill6713]

Welcome to being an American

[@mjg3444]

Vote Blue. Insurance costs are an increasing issue as evidenced by POTUS working to decrease costs. Repubs vote against lowered costs.

[@firsargentum5920]

Because America has turned healthcare into a cynical business designed to soak every cent from its citizens. And despite the highest expenditure on healthcare in the developed world, US life-expectancy has actually decreased over the last several years...

[@Fluffimuff]

Sounds like they didn’t get mental health treatment for their son because he wasn’t insured. She only insured herself then spent half her salary on horses. This child was certainly not a priority to his parents. That’s not parental love. Very sad.

[@selenasanchez7336]

Her Boss sounds Great for family first. I was a Courtroom Clerk for Baltimore City in family law and my manager did not care about our own families. They did not understand I had to leave after working my 8 hour shift to take my Son to Doctor with a fever. My Son come First not a Job. As the Only bread Winner in my household I resigned cause no matter what My Son is #1. Paulette My Son is a Great Man!!!!! No thanks to you.

[@zoner__]

That was pretty expensive health insurance for a corporate employee. I wouldn't call that family first.

[@n.c.467]

I was unaware that she was terminated 2 days after the shooting... they could have at least given her a leave of absence with salary for 30 days. That's rough to lose her income on top of her son's crap!!

[@n.c.467]

@Aesthetically_unpleasing Parents are only liable to a certain degree. When you become a parent, you'll understand.

[@disneyfan9099]

She was crazy. I think they saw this and let her go.

[@n.c.467]

@disneyfan9099 She had worked there for five years plus...if she was crazy enough to be terminated, it would have happened long before the shootings.

[@janephillips3627]

Depending on Who you work for and what you do for that company, if you are arrested and she's been in Jail for 2 years now, the company obviously felt it was better to let her go and that would get attention OFF their company. Some company's allow you to straighten out if you are arrested but there are a lot of factors to be considered, like what you do, what the charge is, etc.

[@FatCavill]

The school should be held responsible also. No one checked his backpack or locker after seeing his papers? I got my locker searched for cigarettes. When I was 18.

[@blippi7542]

Ethan was an "oopsie" baby. SMH.

[@peggychamberlain9515]

The was what the shady horse farmer said, NOT Jennifer..

[@jean9l187]

Defense attorney whining instead of objecting. This is a CONTROVERSIAL CASE and i have not seen enough coverage outside of our state of MI

[@Ronin4614]

Boy, this gent is not at all happy to be sitting in the witness chair regarding a manslaughter case. Looking at the defendant, she seems to nave put on a lot of weight. That said, it looks like she is doing well behind bars, what say we keep her there.

[@salishseas]

Why didn’t her boss carry the company’s health insurance for himself? Probably because they offer inadequate health insurance coverage. Companies need to do better for their employees. If we are going to have employer provided help insurance it needs to be excellent full coverage insurance. We are so tired of companies stealing our wages and offering junk health insurance.

[@sapphirerain70]

Is this attorney dense? Wow

[@dakotacoren6936]

That company should be ashamed of what they're charging employees for insurance biweekly. Ridiculous! Was there any money left for them to eat on?

[@georgetown8986]

At first blush, I thought that was the former boyfriend in the psychotic Wendi Adelson murder trials.

[@annaconda78]

OMG ME ALSO , did get why he was there, or was this the mothers trail that had begun Wendi mother 😅🤷🏼‍♀️ I was so confused and thought no one would think this , but I was wrong you did 😅

[@Florida-Plant-Mom]

Jeffrey Lacasse. 🥇

[@keepurcool]

Same

[@lisachalmers5687]

Too Funny, and a sign that we are all true crime obsessed

[@sarita5572]

Same! Lol

[@updownstate]

In law books of the future this trial will be labeled "Incoherence", "speech therapy" and everybody stfu."

[@Zzx75]

JC made poor decision not to insure her kid but spent close to $1,000 month on horses. NC did not appear to be a priority but a burden. Why in the world would she tell people he was a "oopsie" baby when he was 15. Maybe she thinks she was a good mother but according to NC journal there was a huge misconnect.

[@IFChi1904]

She was expending more than 2k monthly in her horses.

[@Sunshinelife122]

Parenting and hobbies are 2 different roles They obviously were not maternal and very heartbreaking for her son despite what he did parents are a suppose to be parents

[@losangelesnutritionist]

I've never felt sorry for a school shooter before. I feel for this kid seeing his parents didn't even care to have medical insurance on him or get him mental health care but then bought him a gun. This is horrible and the murder of those innocent kids could have been avoided had these parents got him some help. I'm praying for all the victims.

[@dakotacoren6936]

Ethan was on his dad's work insurance

[@sharonkeevey974]

Where is the schools responsibility? Surely, they must have some accountability in what transpired.

[@ms_violet_majesty]

Well if internal investigations feel they are accountable in some way they will be. But right now this is the case of Jennifer Crumbley.

[@Pittiebabe]

I also feel like the school is culpapble along with the parents

[@lauriedonnelly7134]

What is wrong with her attorney????

[@stephie640]

There is SO MUCH wrong with that woman.

[@ballen787]

Damn, their company benefits plan sucks! We don’t pay a damn thing out of pocket, but my family would be out 2k a month under their plan?! Ouch

[@laurahompus]

Wait a minute... the numbers he is mentioning to ADD a person, or 2 on her health insurance, is $500+ BIWEEKLY?! How is anyone expected to pay that?! The US health insurance system is fukking insane!!

[@dyaneleblanc6447]

Anyone else watching this think “ legally blonde?”. Waiting for” but you had time to write these text messages , didn’t you?!”

[@discdoggie]

universal, single payer, tax payer funded health care just may have prevented this “hOw aRe wE gOnNa pAy FoR tHaT?” we can’t afford NOT to

[@pickledragonrebel]

Agreed. As a cdn I don't know how you guys deal with it. I couldn't imagine not having universal health care

[@janbouchard6699]

Will the father be in trial too?

[@2and26]

Yes, March 5

[@Cruxish]

She accidentally texted her boss in reference to the missing gun and bullets. Definitely meant to text her husband

[@janephillips3627]

Cruxish : No she didn't, her husband was the one that told her (Jen) the gun and bullets were missing. Why would she text it back to him.

[@loveforeignaccents]

Dropdown description box: *full testimony (not fully testimony).

[@wrmlm37]

A paycheck will tell ya super-fast if she had insurance...geez. The attorneys always drag out the most insignificant crap. We don't need 5 minutes to figure out if she had insurance and who was covered. This always feels like a tactic to me regardless of which side attempts to obfuscate this way. This is why trials are so frustrating to me.

[@darlingdeb7010]

Insurance doesn't cover therapy usually.

[@LynetteA68]

@@darlingdeb7010I’ve never had ins that did not cover mental health/counseling etc. it just covers it at a different % than “regular” healthcare! They need to change that!! Mental healthcare is no different or less important than mental healthcare.

[@ShiraLaya0312]

⁠it was changed with the healthcare reform in 2010; 100% of healthcare policies in our country must have a mental health benefit coverage at the same rate as other medical care

[@darlingdeb7010]

@@LynetteA68 I honestly have never had insurance that did cover it. I agree though, it's important and needs to change.

[@TakenTook]

The point of asking all the nitpicky questions about whether it was single or family coverage, how much it cost, etc. wasn't because they were having a hard time figuring it out from her paycheck. It's because they have to ask those questions out loud in front of the jury so that they know that the jury understands that despite how expensive the insurance would be for the entire family, they were already spending more than that on the two horses every month. It demonstrates how they were neglecting their kid because they had messed up priorities.

[@rrosen7370]

There you go! Medical insurance is astronomical for people!! What She’s trying to get at is was there mental health coverage available for Ethan?

[@Leahhunks]

Exactly! If USA has a lack of mental health services, it’s in part due to the unaffordability !

[@norahstuart9147]

Yes but she could spend money on horses. Selfish woman. Poor Ethan. He was damaged and got no help from his parents. This tragedy was avoidable.

[@stephernoodle]

@@norahstuart9147exactly- her son was begging for months to go to a doctor and she was busy worrying about her sick horse instead. It’s disgusting

[@jeremybeall2219]

It depends on how good the Mental Health Care System is in the State of Michigan. Where I live, the Mental Health Care System, until recently it was very poor and limited. I've seen a lot of people suffer in my State because they could not get the help they needed.

[@sunnin1671]

Medical insurance is expensive. But they were spending $800-$1300 per month on their horses. She made the horses a priority over her son, and ultimately over the children at her son school.

[@LawnBunny777]

I thought I was watching the wrong trial. He resembles Wendy Adelson's ex Jeff Lacasse. At least I think so

[@daynasafranek7807]

That one attorney just asked the same three questions… “Ummmm, so…”. Annoying!!

[@lauranebro1111]

If I had bought a gun for my son, I would have been made complicit by the police.