Testing Longer Knead Times in the Ankarsrum Assistent

www.TwistyBakes.kitchen
In the next experiment in my Ankarsrum, I see how my regular white bread dough develops as mix all the way up to 35 minutes.
Each mix was done with the speed regulator at the 3 o'clock position. I would assume that mixing faster would reduce the knead times.
Whilst I was willing to throw the dough if it was kneaded beyond redemption, you can see the results at the end of the video.
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TwistyBakes is an amateur home baker with a 50cm X 70cm workspace and a countertop oven. I'm not aiming to be an instructor, these videos are just my experiences.

[@lostmagicofdisney]

First, I LOVE watching Ankarsrum videos, because I'm in love with mine. Second, I've always wondered how long I could take it but have always been too paranoid I'd over-knead. I had no idea what over-kneaded dough looks like. Third, thank you for sharing your experience in video form.

[@twistybakes5681]

Glad you enjoy it! Over-kneaded is when all the gluten is worked beyond it's ability to be elastic and stops being stretchy. It goes kind of liquidy. You'd have to mix a crazy amount of time in the Ank to achieve that...and trust me, you'd know if it happened. Well worth experimenting!

[@barbarabody1542]

I just made a batch of pizza dough (900 g flour, 600 g water) using my kitchen aid rather than by hand which is what the recipe calls for. My recipe calls for a rest to allow the gluten to develop after its mixed then knead the dough. I know the Anksarum is supposed to do everything but I think you are missing a resting stage that allows gluten to develop - I don't know that there is anything to be gained by excessive kneading.

[@twistybakes5681]

I think the point of the video is that neither bread was rested - not in the original hand knead version, or the Ank version. Why should I introduce that stage for a basic white bread, when I wouldn't do it usually?

[@j.e.7028]

I'm glad I found your chanel...I'm a complete novice...but tempted to splash out and by an Ank...looks amazing,but then again your an amazing experienced baker

[@twistybakes5681]

No, I really am not an experienced baker! There are tons of better bakers out there. With my videos I hope to show the capability of the Ank, and how anyone can turn out great bread!

[@Joesmith-fu4ps]

When handling dough in bread making, it is a distinct advantage to allow the dough to rest during the process. This allows the gluten/gliadin to relax and easily reform itself into the long protein chains which are the superstructure of the finished loaf. It is possible to achieve greater volume and lightness by resting the dough at the right times. Doughs made from white flour require more resting than wholemeal doughs, as the wholemeal is always fermenting faster and the presence of bran particles reduces the strength of the dough by slicing through the gluten superstructure.

[@nikinikolakaki9346]

very well said

[@twistybakes5681]

This is just making the dough...it doesn't go straight in the oven like this! It gets an hour to proof, knocked back and shaped, then second rise before baking. That is how my grandmother taught me and I'm never going to change! Haha seriously, I have played around with all sorts of methods (see my www.twistybakes.kitchen for my sourdough experiments) but honestly my credo is simplicity first and this does the job. End results were perfect.

[@MindbodyMedic]

I was gonna ask about autolysing then you mention it. interesting. I hear great things about these mixers but I'm very inexperienced so cannot justify the investment but some day. As an engineer, the design is just ingenious as it relieves the strain via 'out of the box' thinking.

[@twistybakes5681]

Yes, that is part of it's appeal to me. I have a Kenwood Chef at my apartment in Singapore and I've loved that thing for over 10 years. But the Ank is beautiful, even when not baking!

[@nikinikolakaki9346]

Definitely the hydration you used is extremely low for this kind of flour of high protein. It could definitely go up to 80% hydration whereas yours is 64,6% hydration. Also when handling dough we wet our hands so it doesn't stick at all. I think you overkneaded this so gluten was destroyed. You could start with 310 water and add at least 50gr more after 2-3 minutes of kneading little by little, until you reach 10-15 min of kneading...10gr every 2-3 minutes. You would be amazed by the result.

[@twistybakes5681]

I tend to disagree - I made exactly this bread by hand-knead and it always turns our great. Even down to 55% hydration recipes. But towards the end I do suggest trying with a higher hydration. Although you don't see it here, my hands are wet when I handle - just dipped off camera. The gluten clearly wasn't destroyed...the last few images in the video are of the risen loaf and it turned out great! I'm also wary of adding water once the dough is mixed, as in my experience it tends to lead to a ball of dough sitting still while the bowl spins and doesn't incorporate easily. The Ank is really fussy about liquids first!

[@gillgreen3446]

The light is fine I can see the lumps when you stretch it. Your videos are very clear and you weigh your ingredients. I can’t get on with cups. That said I can’t get my Ank to make my tried and tested recipes just in larger amounts.

[@twistybakes5681]

Keep at it Gill, you will get there! Speaking as someone coming from a Kenwood Titanium Chef also, it has taken some time, but these days I'm happy with my Ank bread!

[@TheDRMASLOW]

Knead for 10 minutes, rest for 5 minutes and knead again for 10 minutes. This 3 times. The temperature of the mass between 26º and 27º.

[@twistybakes5681]

But that wouldn't be a test of long knead times in an Ank, that would be an entirely different video. In the real world, the temp of the dough is the temp of the dough :) Sure, aim to get the water the right temp going in, but after that do what?

[@jeremygoh9559]

I think u should postition the roller nearer to the side.

[@Joesmith-fu4ps]

ou can tell you've kneaded dough too much if it becomes difficult to stretch. Sometimes this happens when you use a stand mixer or food processor. Overkneaded dough will be tough and make tough, chewy bread. ... With a simple windowpane test, you'll be able to create smooth, perfect dough for all sorts of homemade breads.

[@tatorbubbles]

Did the mixer get hot after mixing that long?

[@twistybakes5681]

Nah, the Ank never gets hot.

[@sourdoughhome2571]

You might try a dough hook. I use the lowest speed for 5 minutes, let the dough rest for 5 minutes to let the flour hydrate, and then mix for another 5 to 10 minutes. If I had to knead for 30 to 40 minutes, the Ank would be listed on eBay.

[@twistybakes5681]

Great tip! I did do a 1kg batch and the hook did a good job. With less flour I'm happy with the roller now.

[@UrbanSikeborg]

One can get a more robust (and faster) kneading by fixing the roller closer to the bowl, if needed. After kneading, every dough (regardless of the machine used) should rest for at least 10 minutes for the gluten to relax; that makes forming easier and the loaves will stay the shape you intended for them.

[@gillgreen3446]

Are you in UK? You sound English but the flour is one I’ve never seen here. Just nosey and like trying all types of flour for bread. Only just found your site and I’m enjoying it. Many thx Gill

[@twistybakes5681]

Ahhh well I was born in the UK, I'm a Singaporean citizen and living in Hong Kong! The flour is from Bob's Red Mill and is often found in health food stores for their more obscure grains and flours. But honestly, it's what is most easily available here in bulk. In the UK you are spoiled for choice with Shiptons Mill, Wessex Mill, Matthew's Cotswolds etc...tons of great independent millers in the UK, and you can buy by the sack and have it delivered. Given a choice I would be looking for a mix of Canadian/British wheat, unbleached, organic and additive-free. If you're stuck with supermarket brands, I like Waitrose' own SWBF (I personally don't like the Duchy stuff) or Dove's. Marriages also. What are you using? The one thing I have found is stick with one flour until technique is good, then experiment!

[@nikki060614]

I am from Hong Kong! And just found your channel and am really enjoying your videos. I know that there is a baking ingredients shop in Wan Chai that stocks flours (bread, rye, cake etc) from Shipston Mill and Doves farm. I would say that their stock level regarding the UK flour is kinda stable but they could still be out of stock from times to times.

[@twistybakes5681]

Ooh do you have a name for this store please?

[@dilboteabaggins]

You should incorporate a bench rest to help develop the gluten. Honestly, you're not using the mixer as it was designed.

[@twistybakes5681]

So, this was a test - an experiment if you like. Why would you need a bench rest after all that kneading?! You can clearly see in the video that the gluten is extremely well developed. The proof is at the end - a beautiful loaf with amazing crumb. On a different note, please share your knowledge with me and other viewers on how the mixer was designed to be used.

[@gillgreen3446]

@@twistybakes5681 yes Tim I’d like to know how to use it . I’ve tried the bench rest for 5 and 15 minutes. I have a kitchenAid Artisan and a Kenwood Titanium. I can make the same bread in both with same recipe, Kenwood just larger quantities. I bought the Ank to allow me to make 3 large loaves in 1 mixer instead of 2. That’s not all I wanted to make, just one example. I weigh everything including water and have tried fresh yeast which is what I prefer, but also quick yeast as seen on most videos . How about you making a video so I can see where I’m going wrong

[@atheodo]

You are using a lot of flour, you need to stop once the 'donut' is formed and let the mixer do its job

[@twistybakes5681]

But then the hydration of the loaf is not what I am aiming for. I can understand changing techniques for a mixer, but not quantities in a recipe. That would be very inconvenient.