Teutoburg Forest: Rome’s Worst Military Disaster

[@jimmysharman2217]

“ Trying to stop a freight train with a stern look” it’s quotes like these that have kept me watching Simon’s videos for the past four years

[@ignitionfrn2223]

1:20 - Chapter 1 - Here comes the romans 5:00 - Chapter 2 - A tightening grip 9:05 - Chapter 3 - The great betrayal 12:45 - Chapter 4 - The battle begins 16:15 - Chapter 5 - No exit 19:20 - Chapter 6 - Aftershocks

[@dsxa918]

"Jolly woodland tyke"

[@mrkus-nc7od]

Tube -Dr Ludwig "" wir rufen deine Wolfe "". Chapter 4

[@georgezachos7322]

Brilliant stuff. I would recommend Invicta's 'Avenging Varus', for the details of the revenge.

[@augsdoggs]

Yes! That’s a fantastic KZbin channel and a brilliant series! As a big fan of Simon, I’m very happy to see that a video on this event and topic was made for one of the many channels that reside under the S. Whistler umbrella; I come to this video with a ton of knowledge gained from the Avenging Varus series.

[@theoutlook55]

Indeed

[@tommypark2522]

What a series that it

[@phillyjawnlolo089]

Exactly how many channels do you have, Simon 😳 this is the first time this particular channel has been recommended to me.

[@georgezachos7322]

@@phillyjawnlolo089 You can see them at the description. Maybe 11, maybe more.

[@susannebrown1860]

I grew up in this area. At that time (70s and early 80s) there was still lots of speculation where the actual battle took place. As kids we would talk about finding Roman treasure as if it was pirate loot. I was excited to find out recently that it has now been found and excavated. Also went to the Hermann monument on field trips. The forest is pronounced Toy-to-burg (it's ok, I don't mind you butchering the German language :) )

[@Altered_Perceptions]

I visited Germany last year to visit a friend, and her Dad was excited to take us to see "Hermann the German" I got to climb to the top of the monument and was an amazing experience

[@kronosomni2805]

@@Altered_Perceptions Weirdly enough, that was the same name given to a Summer Camp Horror Story in my youth. The 4-H Camp I used to go to as a boy was originally the site of a German and Italian POW camp in WW2, and though Hermann and the manner of his demise were fictional, several POWS did die in accidents and inmate brawls, along with one who was killed in self defense by a guard because he rushed him from behind. Apparently the guard has to kick to free himself, and since he was wearing guard boots, the inmate died. (Hard to explain what 4-H is, but just imagine a sort of agriculture studies/handicrafts school mixed with a summer camp)

[@Altered_Perceptions]

@@kronosomni2805 we have 4-h here in the States as well!

[@mariakelly90210]

I'm sure Simon appreciates it.

[@FourOf92000]

I remember reading or watching something, I can't remember where exactly, that said that Varus was actually pretty capable; Arminius was just a genius-tier strategist. Augustus would rather have a fall guy than give a German barbarian credit, and Varus was (for this purpose) conveniently dead, so all the official narratives blamed his incompetence instead of crediting Arminius' cleverness.

[@angelinaboccadoro1879]

Arminio fu un traditore finse di stare con i Romani ma li attirò in una teappola

[@mariakelly90210]

Exactly!

[@Klishar122]

Not surprising. The Romans were notorious for this.

[@NDTexan]

Crassus's disaster at Carrhae against the parthians needs an episode. It essentially pushed the Caesar versus Pompey civil clash to the forefront and directly led to the fall of the Republic in favor of the new empire. Also a much bigger disaster in terms of legions lost. Right before he was assassinated Julius Caesar was planning a new parthian campaign to avenge Crassus even. The following few years they avenged the defeat at teutoburg anyways and this battle has always been way overblown in terms of significance. The empire didn't stop expanding suddenly, not even past the Rhine in fact. Watch how everyone disagreeing with me will just parrot that same lie though.

[@Mottleydude1]

There were quite a few Roman battles where Rome suffered higher casualties than TF and had more strategic and historical consequences. TF did signify the extent of Empire for Rome.

[@NDTexan]

The teutoburg forest was during a military campaign of conquest with the army literally seeking Germanic tribes to destroy, you absolute pineapple. And there were other battles that signified the end of the empire more effectively than this one or at least on the same level. They didn't stop fighting and conquering the Germanic tribes because of this. Weird it's almost like you don't actually know what you're talking about, Craig, and instead just use pejoratives. Read a book sometime.

[@Chris-hx3om]

For a really good deep dive into Roman history, try this channel-> kzbin.infovideos

[@rcbryant10]

@craig loves Azerbaijan You're absolutely wrong. It was during a war. You're an idiot. If anything this disaster showed how weak the attitudes of the Roman's had gotten. This was weak compared to some of the things Rome suffered in the Punic Wars and even the Cimbric War. Crassus losing at Carrhae was worse. The Romans in the past would have just gotten pissed and put together a new and bigger army. If you even understand the amount of men they lost purely due to bad storms at sea in the punic wars, you'd know that this was actually not that bad at all comparatively.

[@ytcensorhack1876]

The fall of pompey? U mean when Portsmouth lost t FA cup?

[@charleslarrivee2908]

It's fair to point out that in battles such as Cannae and Arausio, the Romans lost 80,000 men, nearly four times the number lost at Teutoberg Forest. But while the Romans bounced back after those defeats and won the war, the Teutoberg Forest certainly ended in at best a draw.

[@MrVvulf]

If the leaders of Carthage hadn't been money pinching halfwits, and had sent Hannibal the funds and troops he requested, Rome might be a footnote in history. Hannibal spent 15 years in Italy, and never lost anything more than a skirmish. He only left Italy because he was recalled to Carthage when Rome decided to take the war there. At Zama, Hannibal was only defeated due to the betrayal of his cavalry general Manimissa, who switched sides.

[@tomlxyz]

​@@MrVvulfbut Carthage was all about money, just saying if they weren't would completely alter history

[@spitroastfor8]

All Punic wars combined Carthage losses 1,850,000, romans 1,250,000,......the Romans win dude 😎😘

[@captainamerica6525]

​@@MrVvulf A one sided view of history that does not include the contributions of the Roman navy and Scipio Africanus.

[@MrVvulf]

@@captainamerica6525 Scipio was barely an adult (~19) when Hannibal entered Italy. He barely escaped Cannae alive, while is father-in-law died there. If Carthage had immediately supported Hannibal with requested forces, he MIGHT have went ahead and attacked the city of Rome directly. His generals certainly encouraged him to. There is debate among experts whether he ever actually intended to destroy Rome, or whether he simply intended them to force them to sue for peace. The Roman navy and Scipio didn't factor into this early stage of the 2nd Punic War.

[@AlixFlemmer]

Decided to check this out bc it looked interesting. Never heard of the channel before. Was surprised to hear Simon’s voice. Then I realized I’ve discovered ANOTHER ONE OF SIMON’S CHANNELS. I swear it never ends I love it.

[@NeroRomanus]

"Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!" - Augustus

[@NomicFin]

Interestingly, I've been reading Tacitus lately and he portrays Arminius in surprisingly positive terms, saying that he fought to maintain Germania's freedom and clearly portraying him as a heroic figure from the Germanic tribes' point of view. Tacitus did live long after the battle of Teutoburg, and mentions that during his time Arminius wasn't a particularly well-know historical figure among Romans, but it's still a bit surprising to see a Roman refer to the man who caused them a massive military defeat through underhanded means as anythign other than a complete villain.

[@pyromania1018]

Well, Tacitus was something of a finger-wagger, berating Romans for their mistakes.

[@headhunter1945]

Of course it is in the Roman's general interest to portray Varus as a fool, the Germans as treacherous savages, and so forth. Tacitus was not always on board with their typical pro-Roman propaganda. The story was probably quite a lot different than the damage control you hear, and I suspect that Germanicus' campaigns were far less grand, as well.

[@mrkus-nc7od]

Tube - Dr Ludwig "" wir rufen deine Wolfe "" enjoy when the Trees start talking german 😂

[@CYCLONE4499]

I wrote my undergraduate paper on the battle and how Rome's germanic expansion was thus halted. Germanicus probably wished later he never went across the Rhine in hindsight

[@A16AdamWalker]

"that's a story for another channel" - oh if only there was someone as easy to listen to and engaging as this chap Simon who hosted such a channel... I mean it would be fascinating to see how this Geographic Megaproject of uniting Germany came into being...

[@Hooibeest2D]

For the Dutch here, Frissii have nothing in common with the Frisians or Friesland. Their are a different tribe who moved south and west during time.

[@alikolahi1441]

Simon, would appreciate one on the Battke of Carrhae, both a brilliant tactical victory and historically consequential

[@matthewlentz2894]

Excellent video. I would just like to add two points. One, Arminius' brother Flavus also served in the Roman army, stayed loyal despite the battle, and Tacitus records a conversation between the two brothers discussing the pros and cons of Roman rule that took place years after the battle. Second, Varus was not exactly the model Roman citizen. Tacitus relates a saying about him. "Varus came to the rich province of Syria a poor man and left the poor province a rich man."

[@maxmustermann369]

excellent comment. i would just like to add two points. one, you would describe tacitus as a sjw in nowadays term. besides that, most of the records regarding romes history got lost, the ones remaining need a lot of interpretation, so i wouldnt state those as a fact (like the two brothers scene here, hollywood nonsense like that happens way to often in tacitus stories to be credible imo). second, again tacitus beeing a sjw here. thats exactly what government posts in roman times were there for. a political careere costs a fortune and those assignements were specifically given to succesful men to make up for those costs. pretty much everyone did it and as long as you didnt fudged up to much or pissed of a rival previously, the roman elite and public were fine with it...

[@matthewlentz2894]

@@maxmustermann369 Interesting that you describe Tacitus as an equivalent to an sjw. Could you provide specific examples of what led you to that conclusion? As for the post battle meeting between Arminius and his brother, I agree that Tacitus might have embellished it but on the other hand there is no definitive proof that it didn't happen. It seems that some modern historians are too quick to dismiss such dramatical scenes as simply made up. (Calgacus' speech just before the Battle of Mons Graupius is a prime example of a case where Tacitus most likely put words in someone's mouth.) However, many dramatic scenes like this took place throughout history and it seems a bit careless to simply dismiss this one as mere fiction. As a matter of fact, if you read Arminius' side of the conversation, he characterizes Roman rule as nothing more than slavery. Hardly seems like something a biased roman historian would simply make up. As to a lot of Roman sources being lost and the ones left needing interpretation, I just want to say that they are all we have and while we should be ready to change our views of them if new information is available, we also need to bear in mind that these sources are all we have to tell us about many events of that time period so we have to trust them to some extent. As for Varus being corrupt, I agree. He got the governorship because he was close to Augustus and took advantage of his position.

[@maxmustermann369]

@@matthewlentz2894 just go to your local library and read basically anything from him that has smth to do with roman society or war. you ll very soon find a pattern, which is: roman society bad, oh look, even those barbarians(or anything else the romans looked down or even up to) have more virtue than us. he wasnt a fan of roman society, which is why you need to be careful about interpreting to much into what he writes. bringing up more examples of alleged events isnt really helpful. i cant proof it either way, neither can you and most importantly neither can history books. what i can do however, is look on the facts. in this case i can see that he writes of this meeting like he was there, 50 years before he was born. i very much doubt that there was a writer present to this somewhat intimite meeting he could have relied on. the brothers discussing over roman rule after they fought each other to death seems odd to me as well. i think you are somewhat naiv here. my counsel would be, to not take everything at face value, especially if it regards history.

[@hmvollbanane1259]

Just to add context: Varus was governor of Syria, so he didn't gain his wealth by some genius entrepreneurial enterprise but extortion and abuse of power

[@johnwright9372]

Robert Graves cites Tiberius writing to one of the provincial governors: "I want my sheep shorn, not shaved."

[@emilymoore378]

Hey Simon, could we have a warographics on the battle of Agincourt? Great content as always, keep it up!

[@5677Sword]

Yes please ❤️❤️

[@jerdyeastmond5389]

That would be awesome.

[@seanosborn3272]

That would be awesome. Started learning about it after the watching “The King” on Netflix

[@johnc.2876]

May Crispen and Crispinian bless you!!!

[@larsrons7937]

I might be wrong but hasn't he done one already? I haven't checked the full video list.

[@christopherfain8736]

....trying to stop a freight train with a stunned look. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣I always look forward to new videos and this one is no exception. One of my favorite topics--Rome. lol. Well done with the new channel, Simon.

[@VelvetTeddyBear15]

new project? u sir and ur team are content kings! thank you

[@mikejohnston5982]

Simon the hardest working man on KZbin Whistler. Great content keep it up

[@cosmopolite997]

Agree. Simon the best.

[@lanzknecht8599]

It is always a delight to listen to Simon Whistler. A major point that caused resistance among the germanic tribes was taxation. In their eyes the Romans treated them as unfree men, since free men did not pay any taxes and only worked for themselves. Quintilius Varus had a bad reputation even among Romans for his coruption There was a saying that went "Poor Varus came to rich Syria. Rich Varus left poor Syria.". Subduing the Germans to roman laws, which were contrary to their own traditions made things even worse.

[@Andrew-mp9hu]

Simon, you and Kings and Generals should do a collab! Two of my favorite channels!

[@HipiO7]

Hopefully some day you also do a video on the Battle of Arausio, during the Cimbrian War. An often overlooked battle that is easily up there for the greatest and most devastating defeat in Roman history, which made the losses at Teutoberg seem trivial. Carrhae, Cannae and Teutoberg always get the spotlight, but Arausio is rarely ever mentioned

[@mariakelly90210]

I first learned about the Battle of Arausio when I read the historical novel The First Man In Rome by Colleen McCullough.

[@michaelsinger4638]

A masterpiece of negating your opponents strengths while using their disadvantages against them. Also fantastic planning and preparation.

[@geordiejones5618]

But just like Cannae kind of an empty victory because they couldn't capitalize. Though they did prevent longterm Roman presence

[@VinnieG-]

I always saw it as a Roman general's failure but I guess you're right.

[@kurisu70]

A very good synopsis of a convoluted subject. One thing I think should have been mentioned is Arminius was in a reserve cavalry at the Pannonian uprising where he supposedly had his epiphany on how to beat Rome. Also its speculated that upon his return to Germania he had an encounter with his father who disowned him for being so indoctrinated by Rome. The revolt might have been his attempt to make it up with dad. Anyway, great series, looking forward to many more.

[@odysseus3793]

I just had this idea for a channel a couple days ago while watching biographics! Now I’m lucky to see you guys have already done it! Great work 👍

[@jakemiller1386]

Love the new channel! A few recommended topics: 6 Day War, Battle of the Somme, Zulu War, Operation Market Garden

[@MY-hh5fj]

Came here to say please make a video about the Czechoslovak Legion in WW1. Such a badass story of an army without a country riding the Trans-Siberian railway the wrong way around the world during the Russian Revolution to make it home. It took around 3 years, via the port of Vladivostok and America! Their activities near Yekaterinburg led to the last Tsar and his family being murdered. Eventually they returned to their new country, formed after the breakup of Austria-Hungary. Would make a great video! Have a great day, love your work! Cheers

[@wendycharles9576]

I love when I learn new stuff on ANY of Simon's channels.

[@Lanisteelerocks]

Oh boy, I've been waiting a long time for this to finally be chronicled on one of your channels!

[@Jamesg487]

The Pyrrhic War would be a great video, where we get the phrase Pyrrhic victory from. "If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined"

[@DefinitelyNotEmma]

The campaign of the Teutoburger Wald was basically an ancient european Vietnam War. The Great Empire that failed to defeat the outnumbered natives.

[@michaelsinger4638]

It helps that the natives were led by a man who knew the Romans VERY well.

[@DefinitelyNotEmma]

@@michaelsinger4638 Just like Tiberius Julius Alexander during the siege of Jerusalem.

[@Packless1]

...so true... ...and not only ignoring Sun-Tsu's advice about the circimstances like terrain and climate, they also failed in winning 'hearts and minds' by heavy taxing...!

[@manfredgrieshaber8693]

It was also a kind of mutiny inside the roman army as Arminius was the commander of the auxiliary forces of the roman army and all men of the auxiliaries changed side at the beginning of the fight. As a child Arminius was brought to Rome as a hostage to keep his father, a cheruskian chief loyal to the romans. He made a career in the roman army together with his brother Flavus ('the blond man'). He even was knighted and became a member of the roman upper class. Flavus on the other hand kept loyal to Rome and took part in a later campaign against his own brother. And Arminius had selfish motives to ingnite a revolt. Thusnelda, the daughter of another cheruskian leader was promised to the son of third chief. But Arminius and Thusnelda fell in love for each other and they secretly married. This made Arminius new father in law furious and he looked for revenge for he couldn't kept his promise, the most serious thread to his honour. As this chief was the closest ally to Rome Arminius planned to drive Rome out of Germania in order to weaken his fathers in law position. But that didn't work in the end as in 21 a. d. Arminius was killed by his own relatives, probably an act of vendetta. Arminius wasn't the perfect hero german patriots wanted him to be.

[@pyromania1018]

Not quite: the Vietcong never actually defeated the US in an actual battle (though that hardly mattered), and the US didn't launch a punitive expedition afterwards to ensure Vietnam wouldn't be a threat.

[@grahamdeutsch9800]

Any major battle of the American Civil War Please, Gettysburg, Antietam, Shiloh, Chickamauga, Fredericksburg, Stones River, Over Land Campaign, Manassas 1 and 2, The Wilderness, Seige of Vicksburg, Burning Of Georgia, Etc...............

[@WaddyDanku]

LOWER VOLUMNE BACKGOUND MUSIC FOR LESS DISTRACTION. Thank you Simon. Best channel EVER!

[@doocieonu]

Battle of Cannae against Carthage lead by Hannibal was way more a disaster for Rome.

[@melbifk]

I came here to say it.

[@jantschierschky3461]

I agree, however strategic Teutoburger was more important, it stopped expansion

[@marcoschwarz3763]

@@jantschierschky3461 Is stopping expansion more important than your City's survival?

[@jantschierschky3461]

@@marcoschwarz3763 well what is a city verses a whole region ?

[@marcoschwarz3763]

@@jantschierschky3461 With Hannibal Rome risked its existence.With Herman no

[@--enyo--]

I really like hearing discussion about the primary sources and how they differ, their possible bias, and things that may leave them open to misinterpretation (e.g. - the forests/rain being metaphorical rather than literal. Really enjoying the channel.

[@jonnunn4196]

The other thing is that at times in the UK, a forest had a broad legal definition : It included land reserved by the King in which among other things was illegal to hunt it without permission; and some of these areas had very few trees.

[@codysmith1915]

Everything I turn around Simon has a new channel. And of course I subscribe

[@96smittyjr]

Love all of your channels Simon but I really am liking this one the most!

[@patrickhasachannel]

I remember reading about this in my classics classes mostly in high school and the textbooks treated it like a footnote...

[@jl696]

Teutoburg was a disaster for the Romans but the battles of Cannae and Arausio were much worse. Nevertheless, the Romans recovered from all 3 battles in a short period of time. The difference with Teutoburg was that Tiberius did not let Germanicus finish his retaliatory campaign whereas the Republican leaders after those earlier disasters insisted on it. I find it very interesting that Imperial armies were not as resilient as their Republican predecessors. The Romans lost up to 80,000 men in the battles of Cannae and Arausio but eventually overcame their enemies while the late Imperial army led by Valens lost only 30,000 at Adrianople but never really recovered from it.

[@arch_i_type1912]

Love your work Mr.Whistler, a suggestion for a future video Operation Chariot or the Raid of St Nazaire a fascinating commando raid seeing the most decorations in a 24 hour period of the entire second world war.

[@PAINbow747]

Varus: “aight imma head out”

[@petej222]

Another channel, admire the energy of Simon and all involved

[@natechave2825]

Another great video to watch during my cardio time. Thanks you!!

[@FourOf92000]

10:18 to be fair, Arminius was Varus's right-hand man and had been for years at this point, and Segestes was one random chieftain who could have been lying to try to ruin the thing they had going hindsight is handy here; Varus didn't have it

[@dervelthecelt]

Varus may have known that segestes was holding a grudge as well. Arminius had married segestes daughter without his permission.

[@TraGiiXzaze]

Love the new channel. Devouring everything you've put out so far.

[@kennethquinnies6023]

Granted the romans lost a battle totally and a good amount of troops, but I think the germanic tribes regretted it in the long run with the brutal counter attack campaigns that followed, several tribal nations were gutted etc for revenge. The germans lost way more troops and people in the long run.

[@hetalianotaku7103]

Been waiting to hear about this one!

[@captainjack8319]

Well done. A side note: as a historian I respect the use of Anno Domini. It is perfectly acceptable, historical, and it is far more preferable.

[@jonnunn4196]

Ideally for the events in this video it would include both the year from the founding of Rome (which appears to be what scholars did at the time) and AD (for how they are commonly referred to today)

[@RP-ks6ly]

Why they have pushed to remove the AD when referring to the current timeline is beyond me. Common or current era makes no sense since the actual dividing line is the birth of Jesus....

[@Ken_Scaletta]

No one is offended by OTHER people using those terms, it's just that many don't want to use them themselves. It's not my Lord and not my Messiah, so it's not acceptable for ME to use those terms. They are also historically inaccurate since the historical Jesus could not have been born later than 4 BCE (the year that Herod died). BCE/CE have been used for 400 years by Jewish scholars who did not want to call Jesus the Messiah or call him Lord. I have never seen anyone get offended by BC/AD, but they blow a gasket over BCE/CE.

[@MKGeorge13]

Wasn't expecting to hear "Warographics" I saw Simon and clicked. Congrats on the new channel fact boy!

[@stephenkwasek1933]

Well done! Love the new channels. Please, do carry on Simon.

[@augsdoggs]

As a proud American, the line “watching the Kaiser wipe his balls with Old Glory” made me truly laugh out loud. 🇺🇸

[@anarchyantz1564]

As a meh Brit I also laughed out loud at that! I think Simon just has a way of saying it that makes us all laugh.

[@traviswebb3532]

It got me too. I LOL pretty hard at that line.

[@Justanotherworker]

Which part about being an American are you more proud of. The daily mass shootings? Or the suppression and weakening of the working class?

[@augsdoggs]

@@Justanotherworker The part that put the ideals of The Enlightenment into practice and rejected European monarchy, leading the way for the rest of the Western World to do the same. The part that came to rescue The Allies in both World Wars and prevented the global rule of dictatorial facism. The parts that brought The Blues, Rock & Roll and Hip-Hop to the rest of world. The part that treasures the right of free speech and the free press, brought air travel and the internet to everyone. I can go on. You can go on complaining. I’m aware that the US has big problems. It’s shameful that Donald Trump received enough votes to occupy the White House for 4 years. I’m proud of my country, but I’m not blindly patriotic. So, as my British friends would say, kindly piss off, ya miserable c*nt.

[@bluemutt9964]

@@Justanotherworker Knowing that being happy makes people like you go into a rage ❤

[@kosi6259]

Misleading Title. Battle of the Teutoburg Forest was not the "worst military disaster" by a long shot. It was a big ambush (and not be biggest!) Rome suffered.

[@sebaseba6710]

Very cool video Simon & team! Really loving this channel

[@tjal8709]

Unser Hermann steht im Teutoburger Wald...🎶

[@dervelthecelt]

Hey Simon, speaking of Kalkrise Hill, that's where archeologists found some of the first surviving examples of the lorica segmentata. Any chance of a mega projects video on that?

[@anthonyschepis6905]

Love these videos! Across all of your channels, thanks for the work you put into them

[@TheJayIsOK]

Being german myself I think it‘s funny, that you refer to the germanic as „germans“. We refer to ourselves as „Deutsche“ and to the germanic as „Germanen“.

[@jiachengwu4185]

Okay barbarian 😂

[@Godskin_Trio]

Surprised to not see people mention the battle of Cannae, much bigger battle with greater Roman losses. Teutoburg is close but definitely not the worst Roman disaster

[@yawn1887]

Luv all ya channels Simon. Maybe look into the defence of the kadoka trail in New Guinea, how the Japanese pushed all the way to Port Moresby but lost their momentum.

[@AKAZA-kq8jd]

The Battle of Cannae or Carrhae for your next one on Roman history.

[@Amlaeuxrai]

22:25 Imperographics confirmed, The channel were Simon exclusively discusses the history of the founding of whichever nation he fancies in any particular week. Because Simon loves Rome so much I suggest he start with the story of the founding of Rome in 753 B.C.E..

[@imperatorglaber1752]

Really excited for this channel.

[@hmvollbanane1259]

I always find the line of reasoning that Germania was unprofitable very weird as it was one of the most prosperous regions of antiquity as it had access to the sole known source of amber in the ancient world and maintained trading relations with places as far away as India. So while the land itself may have been less agricultural productive its natural resources (besides the mentioned amber the Ruhr valley has been from antiquity one if not the most important sources of iron and coal in Europe E.g. even the Vikings imported swords from that region) posed a considerable incentive to directly rule those lands and the areas connecting them

[@jonnunn4196]

Other things to consider are 1: Cost of garrison increases the further away from supply chains you are. At some point it doesn't matter how much that land produces as the costs would exceed it. 2: The fighting after this battle and in particular the massacres greatly reduced what the profitability would be in the next few decades compared to previously 3: Leaving them as puppets also included them paying tribute; not nearly as much as taxation as an annexed province would have been but mostly offset by only needing to periodically send in a legion to collect the tribute instead of stationing them all the time.

[@TheEvilCommenter]

Good video 👍

[@peronik349]

Very interesting video as usual! It should be noted that on the German side this battle had another destiny. To create his 4 operas (the tetralogy) Vagner plunged into the heart of Germanic mythology and used the story of "the Rhinegold". After analysis it turns out that this myth relates to teutoburg! The dragon of the myth is none other than the legions circulating in the countryside one behind the other (20,000 soldiers + innumerable auxiliaries: cook servants ....) over kilometers. As for the Rhinegold; the ceremonial armor of the centurions sported shiny decorations (polished copper or bronze but probably not gold)

[@jantschierschky3461]

Wagner

[@Nebechadnezzar]

The battle of Cannae was waaay worse...

[@pyromania1018]

But had no negative long-term consequences. Rome won the war, anyway.

[@Nebechadnezzar]

@@pyromania1018 You could say the same thing about Teutoburg Forest. Rome was a massive juggernaut during both battles, so neither really had any extreme long lasting effects. But comparatively Cannae was so bad that Rome lost almost a quarter of it's fighting men in only ONE day, and two Counsuls, Along with a number of it's allies that defected to Hannibal. If you were a citizen of Rome at this time, chances are you lost somebody at Cannae.

[@Hooibeest2D]

For Simon, it's kalk-reise or chalk rise. Pronounced as calk rise. And yes English is the odd ball out in the Germanic languages.

[@hattorihanzo562]

Im german and its not kalkreise but kalkriese meaning chalk giant

[@ndie8075]

You are always very welcome in Kalkriese english cousin and saxon brother.....❤

[@ricardolorrio8228]

"Varus where are my Legions" ... cried Augustus

[@theironknight597]

"Quintillus Varus! Give me back my legions" Edit: Would love to see a Biographic on Helmuth Von Moltke the Elder

[@ChIGuY-town22_]

Well done, thanks for your hard work.

[@tudyk21]

2nd video of this channel that I have watched. Very well done! Lots of interesting info and a really great delivery! 👍🏻👍🏻

[@maxsignori7660]

And we can only imagine what Europe's future history would have been like hadn't this battle happened and had the Romans managed to maintain the Pacem Romanam in Germany.

[@bobfg3130]

Pax Romana

[@maxsignori7660]

@@bobfg3130 Yes, nominative is indeed Pax Romana. Pacem Romanam is accusative (and I got it wrong anyway because I wrote Pacis, genitive, stupid me). Sorry, just playing with the latin declinations. I live in a place where they use declinations, but in a silly way (Germany). Now that I think of it, I live on the ancient roman border on the Rhein river, in Köln, also known as Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium, or Colonia Agrippina for short. But on the barbarian side of the river :D

[@bobfg3130]

@@maxsignori7660 Just use Pax Romana.

[@jacopofolin6400]

Probably they would had not conquered germany, like After the defeat of Arminius thanks to a punitive expedition they didn't do that, the empire was overstrecht and were way more important enemis, like the partians

[@eric11]

@@bobfg3130 the pax romana also happened with the battle

[@3ducksinamansuit]

It truly was a shock to the empire, they never raised those legions again. The section of Roman border that came to Germania Major was deprived of it's legions within the space of days. Essentially helpless to any incursions from tribal armies.

[@paulceglinski3087]

"Varus, where are my Legions?" Augustus. Brilliant work, people. Simon, you are the man! Cheers. The truth probably lays between the two scholarly opinions. The only people that knew the why's and the what's have been dead and gone for millenia. It is what it is,as they say.

[@bobfg3130]

I don't know how much Germanicus pacified the Germans. The Romans knew that in newly conquered land there will be uprisings. Sources tell us a different story of Germanicus losing soldiers constantly. In fact when he was called back to Rome he was out of cavalry units. As for the economic viability of the region, if they could grow food and make tools, it was viable. Also, there was gold in Germania.

[@TheAvengeddonut]

Excellent video, as always 👌👌

[@anthonyklanke1397]

Another channel with Simon Whistler? That's all I need to know. SUBSCRIBED.

[@Onora619]

I'd love to hear a cold read of historical events too!

[@libertyprime6932]

The battles of Cannae, Arausio and Carrhae were all greater defeats than the Teutoburg. The Romans also continued aggression into Germania for years after

[@jantschierschky3461]

Aggression yes, expansion no

[@pyromania1018]

The Romans bounced back from Cannae and conquered Carthage, anyway.

[@Battleblunt420]

The battle of the kalkar rivar mongols vs rurik dynasty much love brotha

[@InsongWhang]

When I saw the logo I was thinking this was yet another Simon channel, and I was not dissappointed! OGBB!

[@randomnessrules4971]

Teutoburg: Rome's worst military disaster Hannibal: We stand in the midst of my achievement, not yours!

[@woahhbro2906]

I pretty much sub just to hear Simon say "Empire"

[@triplek1440]

Can you do some videos on Aztec / Maya / Olmec wars?

[@angmori172]

Cannae: "ahem"

[@greendragonreprised6885]

Simon, have you done a Decoding The Unknown on the mystery of the 9th Legion?

[@Louylou187]

New channel dam Simon

[@phyllisdevries5734]

No way! You got another channel! You are a youtube God!

[@manfredgrieshaber8693]

The battlefield is excavated since 1987 near the village of Kalkriese. The Hermann aka Arminius monument in the Teutoburg Forest is located about 80 km to the southeast of this site. When asked what to do with this monument the head of archaeologists, Mrs. Wilbers-Rost ('Rost' means rust, what a name for an archaeologist!) answered this monument should remain where it is, but now as an example of how former german nationalists celebrated ancient germanic heroes: oversized and hollow.💥

[@markshepherd3632]

Yes at Detmold. I was there in 1987 with the British Army. A unit of Royal Engineers helped survey the battlefield. I drove the commanding officer from time to time.

[@Ken_Scaletta]

And misplaced.

[@MistaLiir]

SIMON! .. we who seeks knowledge and history, SALUTE YOU!

[@theangryaustralian7624]

Warographics Simon...really...still liking this video

[@SuperRKO92]

Hey Simon. I’d love to see you cover the brutality of the Struggles that ravaged through Ireland in the 20th century

[@skepticscircle1497]

Ask the Catholic Church and the Anglican Church to make a video on the struggles and brutality through Ireland in the 20th century…they’re responsible for all of it.

[@EAWanderer]

If you play steams Rome Total War on pc, you can re-enact this bloody massacre ⚔️ Love this story. As a future video, how about Battle of Britain? Classic! But 1 out of many more

[@manuelacosta9463]

And to think there were several signs and opportunities to avoid disaster, then Varus's insistent folly sealed the deal. The irony of Arminus falling victim to an intertribal blood feud.

[@philipcallicoat3801]

Good job 👍👍....

[@CptMoroni35]

Rome: “We want some beer and sausage, let’s take Germania, boys.” Germania: “We got your sausage right here!”

[@DennisRash]

How about a video for Vimy Ridge? I love your content.

[@mariakelly90210]

Wasn't the concept of the Aquilla introduced in the Roman Army by Gaius Marius when he was fighting the Numidians in North Africa?

[@kinghenryxl1747]

Reminds of the Battle of Isandlwana, when a British column was wiped out the Zulus

[@fidoruh]

I'd you ever have time for a short one it would be cool if you did the Battle of Buffalo during the War of 1812.