[TF2] Beginner's Trap Weapons

[@TealOpal]

Hey all! I hope you enjoy. I want to stress that this video is in no way entirely comprehensive, and that the weapons that different new players latch onto can vary wildly from person to person. I was just speaking from my experience for this video. Feel free to share YOUR beginner's trap weapon experiences in the comments. Thanks all! Time to get back to whatever it is I do.

[@tuenguyenvan3112]

While I understood that the video is mostly about the effects of the weapons on the beginners, I have to bring up the fact that you didn't mention the Shotguns and Market Gardener during the Liberty Launcher section. The mobility provided by the Liberty Launcher was meant to allow you to close the gap between you and the enemies so you can do high damage with the Shotguns or Market Gardener. I know this is some advanced techniques though, not just equipping your banner and only using primary.

[@tuenguyenvan3112]

Also, how does the Sydney Sleeper teach players not to prioritize headshots though? It just have a weaker headshot compared to stock. I maybe wrong to say this, but I like to compare the Sydney Sleeper with the Big Earner. Both of them offer a speed advantage (faster charge rate and speed boost on kill), but while the Sydney Sleeper can be helpful without headshots, the fact that you don't have to backstab an enemy to gain a speed boost doesn't mean you should stop backstabbing, but rather encourage it because of the reduced health. Therefore, I still think the Sydney Sleeper encourage people to headshot, you are one-shotting a regular Soldier instead of crippling him after all.

[@Capiosus]

*phlog flames move faster I think

[@MMitochondria]

When I first started, I always ran Natascha Heavy. I went on godlikes and it wasn't until I played the game more I realized I was playing as a sadist and it's safe to say I ruined many people's days

[@timbuktuesday]

As a demo knight main, I hate the Natascha with a burning passion. I used to use it a lot today, but I never want to touch it again. It’s not fun when your entire play style is nullified by one person, and you can’t even escape

[@MMitochondria]

@timbuktuesday It's infuriating, isn't it? Back then, I didn't know that. I didn't understand the effects that my play style choice had on people just trying to play the game. I don't know what made me stop using it but I'm glad I did, and as I'm sure the other people I play against are as well.

[@brickbattlepro9862]

​@@timbuktuesday just spam a and d instant counter

[@thunderspark1536]

Keep going, RUIN THE FUN FOR EVERYONE

[@weege6450]

​@@timbuktuesdayi use that gun just to ruin your day and scouts days honestly

[@nightshadedim3396]

It's not about killing enemies IT'S ABOUT PISSIN ON EM FROM 500 FEET AWAY

[@Benito675]

*"Professionals have standards"*

[@GanondorkDragmireTF2]

The Liberty Launcher is an interesting case, because it seems to be designed to be used more so as a secondary. It allows you to play roamer with a shotgun, but in doing so the shotgun is your main damage dealer. This is not a bad thing but it gives this odd feeling because it goes against the conventional way of playing Soldier. I find it far from training wheels or a bad weapon, but it focuses more on a play style for someone that likes to jump a lot that doesn't want to be restricted by gunboats.

[@runningelephantgamer128]

I mean you can also use gunboats to discount trolldier while not giving up a damage dealing primariy

[@isaacargesmith8217]

Honestly the libery launchers super fun as a diet jumper that can still do damage if you run gun boats iwth it. You are purely diving on really low health classes with it but its genuinely REALLY fun for just how much movement you can do even when hurt. You can just dive bomb someone and still have like 2 or 3 rockets to get out often times and because the rockets almost never do above 20 damage when you jump with them while wearing gunboats you are literally just a pest that jumps in and jumps out before the enemy can really evne stop you. its not GREAT but its kind of exilerating just how much you can move around with the thing. Its weirdly effective on medics too for as middle of the road as it is. they sorta have trouble running away since you can just chase them with your rocket jumps since you barely take any damage while also having an extra rocket. Their lower health also makes them not too hard to kill with the liberty launcher too, if still harder than with stock. The air strike also kiiiinda can do this but the need to build up to having more rockets, the lower rocket speed, smaller blast radius, and the more damage you take jumping with it makes it kind of harder to actually use if you're not like really good with it. Air strike does have more options though if you can use it well but evne then that higher self damage still imo makes the liberty have a place in its own small niche.

[@Bartholemew_the_cringe]

Tbh at that point just go rocket jumper

[@Felipe-yv4bc]

the extra rocket is huge if you're running the gunboats trying to get market gardener kills, it allows you to chain more rocket jumps and get out easier, plus having an actual damage dealing rocket launcher for when you screw up is nice

[@gmanplaysgames256]

could also run it with a banner and play a backline "Support Soldier", using the reduced self-damage to avoid direct fights and stay alive long enough to pop multiple banners.

[@MegaThenman]

Pyro main here, the taunt noise for the phlog can be masked in the same way as Uber masking for medic, which is helpful for its main thing of catching players off guard. However it is easily counterable by what is normally the reverse situation, any high damage projectile class like soldier or demo. Never understood why people called it OP when it destroys survivability for being able to play pyro like spy, in that you take advantage of people unaware, as soon as they become aware, you're dead from lack of airblast

[@idiotsamich1737]

I know. Right? Ive dealt with phlogs everywhere and they're only troublesome when they're pocketed or ubered. The same people who say phlog is overpowered are the same people who get killed by every kritz charge always. Just people who dont know the game enough to know how to respect kritz. Same with the people who use it, just people who dont know how horrifying and unchecked projectile class can be

[@Iwatoda_Dorm]

I haven’t gotten to try this yet but is phlog cancelling still a thing in the game? Or do we not talk about it in fear of it getting removed atm ._.

[@idiotsamich1737]

@@Iwatoda_Dorm its still real but nobody does it. Even if someone does they tend to rely on it. once its out they die like any f2p phlog

[@HippieTornado]

I think Opal missed the mark on calling out the Phlog for being OP when the real menace is the Scorch Shot *combined* with the Phlog.

[@davidhong1934]

​@@Iwatoda_Dorm Phlog Cancelling is powerful, but you're still using a flamethrower with no airblast and a charge attack that requires lengthy buildup The Phlog Cancelling strategies can be applied to the Backburner for more consistent results

[@rockowlgamer631]

Little story for ya about the brass beast. It's 2Fort with some serious play, I'm rocking the full hibernating bear set. My medic using the vaccinator, Red had taken our last intel and it was in the T section in their base where the medic and I held off the whole enemy team for 31 kills. Sure we lost in the end but damn was it fun, I'm probably one of the few 7,000+ hour players that like using the full hibernating bear set for fun. I also think the Sydney Sleeper is the most balanced sniper rifle for SUPPORT.

[@ElNeroDiablo]

Aye, the Sleeper is great as a sniper that supports their team, particularly as a counter-sniper to draw attention away from their team by pissing on (and pissing off) the enemy sniper.

[@masonkay7024]

I both fear and respect you

[@patg1094]

The Sydney Sleeper is actually a really good anti-sniper weapon, because if you can get a few cheeky kills on the enemy sniper with it you will tilt them super hard.

[@3cne]

not quite, cuz snipers require vision, when you pay attention to the point you watch while charged, it's difficult to notice the threat elsewhere, for a decent sniper they just click your head within 0.5s💀💀

[@yargolocus4853]

​@@3cneall the more tilting when a bad sniper peepees you (the whole point is to get elites aggravated with a suboptimal strat)

[@ElNeroDiablo]

@@yargolocus4853 As someone who played full Croc-O-Style Sniper back before sets got broken - it was some of the most fun tilting enemy snipers to force them to spend 2 snipers to counter me instead of them focusing on my team, as one might get a cheeky headshot that I'd survive on 1hp due to the set and then cave their chest in and it'd take a second sniper effectively third-scoping in order to kill me. That was unless I had a pocket medic (or a dispenser) hiding behind some cover so even if their second sniper tried to headshot me I'd survive it as long as I had 2hp or more after the first sniper's headshot.

[@TheAppleDemon]

Fun fact: Right clicking with the phlog when the mmmph meter is full you do the taunt and activate instant kill mode, instead of having to press G twice.

[@SkjesRed]

or if you're a new player, you probably don't have any taunts, so you only have to press G once, because fun fact: if you have no equipped taunts, then the taunt menu doesn't pop up.

[@uh-ohspaghetti-os4118]

I thought everyone knew this, weapon abilities are usually on M2

[@plbster]

Ubersaw right click also activates the taunt kill

[@geoshark12]

While I do agree the brass beast is new player bait In defence of the brass beast, it’s not a pushing weapon( aside from payload )it’s meant to make heavy more of an immovable object shredding most pushes aside from Uber when properly backed up by his team ( which I will admit is hard in casual ) A good brass beast is terrifying especially if it’s one sticking close to his engineer or medic . I will admit that it’s not better in a lot of situations due to it being a specialized weapon but in those situations it excels

[@boinqity4621]

yeah theres a reason the brass beast is actually pretty popular in 6s, because in 6s youre guaranteed to have teammates that will back you up, since on last holds the heavy is usually the main target of the enemy team, and as soon as its time to push out of last youre just gonna switch back to scout anyways

[@3cne]

imagine picking up a brass beast near the enemy spawn💀💀

[@polocatfan]

brass beast is definitely great if you a absolutely need DPS over mobility in a situation

[@calsalitra4689]

To add to the defense of the Brass Beast, the shotgun pairs very well with it and allows you to go places you really shouldn't and abuse the raw power of the BB. This is somewhat in defense of the shotgun too, in 1v1s a Fat Scout is surprisingly powerful. Once the minigun is revved and ramped up it'll outdamage the shotgun, absolutely. However, you're looking at maybe a 2 second delay before the minigun has the edge, at which point the enemy has already escaped, the shotgun would have already killed them, or you're already dead. Still usually not worth the loss of a lunchbox item especially if you stay near your team like a good Heavy, but if you're running the Brass Beast and plan to go for cheeky flanks...

[@calebbraun9505]

Personally, I feel like the brass beast tends to further show the game state. If you're rolling (mainly on payload offense or practically spawn camping) then it's stronger than stock, but when you're loosing, it makes it even harder to get the crucial foothold to potentially turn the game around. And yes, it works much better with a shotgun than a lunchbox item, a shotgun's still a shotgun, even if the scout's not using it.

[@javonyounger5107]

With the Beast, occasionally I would notice a Demo or Soldier would shoot me three times and then immediately turn to face another target. I can only assume those guys are just so used to a Heavy dying in three shoots.

[@NanaKyoto]

The Liberty Launcher combined with The Reserve Shooter is a powerful, but somewhat niche weapon combination, and something I've been trying to get as much practice in as possible. Plus, I love having the increased projectile speed throw off Pyros, it is hilarious.

[@grummdoesstuff2983]

Brass beast is actually my favorite minigun mostly because it slows down my gameplay. I like being the brick wall that my team rallies behind and my enemies bounce off of, that’s why I normally gravitate towards tank characters. So having a weapon that leans into that even harder was a no brained pick for me. Not that the others aren’t good as well. Stock is great for all around play, and if my team is having trouble pushing through a choke, I’m definitely pulling out the Tomislav. But for anything remotely defensive, or if im against a team who doesn’t have too many demos and snipers, my BB is attached to my hands with superglue.

[@wahooey6189]

Living sentry nest basically then?

[@ghoulbuster1]

The best part of the brass beast is the synergy with the chocolate, that extra 50 hp affects the damage resistance by raising it from 150 to 175. This means that you can tank 4 rockets or 4 demo pipes at full health without medic healing.

[@LividImp]

The Sydney Sleeper has a legit use in pubstomping, even if you can hit headshots. You can use it to stay hidden instead of having the kill-cam reveal your location. You intentionally try _not_ to kill your target, but take their health down so low that someone else is practically guaranteed to kill them. So for instance, a fully charged body shot to a soldier or pyro will leave them with 25-50 health _and_ jarated.... they rarely make it back to spawn. And for weaker classes, just dont fully charge. Because you only ever get assists, the kill-cam never reveals where you are at. There is a really nice hiding spot on a certain commonly played map where I always use the Sleeper. The only real downside is just accepting that you won't be the top fragger on your team. And if your team figures out what you are doing they'll love you for handing them easy frags. Don't try this against veterans of the game though, as they'll know ever hiding place on a map and find you sooner rather than later. It's great fun for pubstomping though.

[@incorporealnuance]

you mentioned this, but one of my favorite things to do as spy is to run one direction, cloak after getting chased, then just _stopping,_ and watching everyone scramble after where they think I went :)

[@williamseo2725]

I thought the community generally agreed that the Brass Beast had to be paired with one of the shotguns so that Heavy could have the best of both worlds.

[@rorykeefe8954]

As a spy main, it is worth noting the 15 percent louder decloak sounds absolutely makes uncloaking harder. With the stock invis watch, you can decloak RIGHT behind an enemy and they might not hear you, but with the C&D, you could uncloak around a corner about 5 steps away from your target and they’ll STILL hear you!

[@EmeraldNight42]

With the Sydney sleeper I find nothing more satisfying than having half the enemy team focusing me after 5 min cause I’m ‘piss’ing them off

[@PillzmansFox]

So funnily enough the brass beast is amazing on that one map where you turn giant and run to the enemy base with the bomb. The speed decrease doesn't matter when you're that big, you kill most classes from across the map in like a second, you melt the other giant and with more health you get your defense boost faster and longer

[@isenokami7810]

I’m in the low Sniper skill level where using the Sydney Sleeper as a crutch seems really enticing. My aim is so jittery that the bodyshots are hard for me to hit, let alone headshots. And yet I don’t currently run it, choosing stock instead, out of some vain hope of improving. Which has borne no fruit. Forget the Sleeper crutch, my answer seems to be to just not play Sniper. Same with Spy, and the C&D is another crutch I used before eventually switching to stick to improve. Only in that case I do feel like that swap to stock made a difference; just a shame that does f$&@ all for the rest of my nonexistent spy skill.

[@robertchappell8086]

I like the Sydney conceptually, but I kinda wish they kept the jarate explosion on headshot thing. I like the idea of a backline support option that hits a group of people instead of a single shot "this one person is dead" weapon. If you were using the stock they would be just as dead (if not more dead) after your it them with a fully charged headshots, so it just Kinda... falls flat, especially when the bazaar bargain and hitmans heatmaker fill basically the same niche

[@ghoulbuster1]

Lower your sens, SS also works better if you can get headshots because the extra minicrit damage makes it easier to your team to secure the kill.

[@teeby2037]

The banners work great with the Liberty Launcher because you can be in more places, hit harder to hit shots, and can stay in fights for longer. Sure it's probably not as good as stock, but it isn't a bad choice

[@edfreak9001]

i will say that I sometimes find matches where I end up getting more use out of the Cloak and Dagger than I do stock simply due to factors like there not being a lot of ammo to grab on the way or otherwise just needing to go deeper than the default watch allows safely. It's somewhat rare but it's just something you'll have to recognize when you're in the match proper.

[@d-tergent7899]

I'm reminded of when I first started playing the game and unlocked the Kritzkrieg, back then I didn't know the different medi guns had different effects, all I saw was that +25% uber charge rate. That said an experienced soldier did guide me to a four bomb assist with it

[@dinglebingle4211]

I got an ad for cream cheese at the moment the second option for the "which is more fun" segment was supposed to play, so I think I will run cream cheese heavy from now on

[@commenterthe3rd]

Im not a heavy main but I love using the brass beast on defense or payload attack I usually use it with the family business or the chocolate bar kinda funny cuz I main engi Im basically becaming a sentry

[@Flailmorpho]

I like brass beast but more as an engineer nest guard sorta thing, taking down spies while still harassing enemies outside the turret's vision. That said, it's a strat that I only use on certain maps where there's a choke near The Sentry Spot for that part of the map, allowing me to multitask without having to move around much

[@KelltheTitan]

Interestingly enough, the Brass Beast being my favorite minigun has affected how I play Engineer. I'll typically use the Eureka Effect so I am not beholden to ammo boxes or my Dispenser for metal, that way I can put my Sentry in a cheeky spot the enemy team won't expect, and my dispenser closer to the chokepoint for my team, especially the Heavies, to benefit from. How I wish more engis would do the same for me when I play Heavy.

[@gmanplaysgames256]

I think the optimal way to run the Liberty Launcher would be to equip it along with the banner of your choice and the Disciplinary Action, turning Soldier into a support class. Hang out in the backline, near the Medic or the Engineer and spam rockets, making use of the reduced self damage to rocket jump away from threats, focusing primarily on filling your banner meter and staying alive long enough to make optimal use of your banner, while giving teammates headed for the front a helpful whip for speed boost.

[@shinobuoshino5066]

It's trash, optimal way to run liberty launcher is not to use liberty launcher. If you're good with meatshots, alternating one rocket and one panic attack results in burst damage capable of oneshotting medic if you launch a rocket then shoot him with panic attack right as rocket hits, then you switch back to liberty launcher and repeat the process, this works because projectile is fast and they don't expect you to use a shotgun like ever. This isn't as good with stock because you completely give up self damage reductions as opposed to stock + gunboarts or liberty launcher + shotgun, meaning you will have less health, and health is more important than doing 150+ damage per rocket + shotgun shell. Still, in the end it's only fun but completely useless, it's better to bomb medic with 2 rockets and get out.

[@W0terB0tle]

I feel like to help encourage headshots with the sleeper you could have the jarate effect be able to go to enemies near the target as well as the target itself

[@SkinnerRush]

TF2 players got so mentally and physically insane that they hoaxed a nonexistant character into existance

[@mikubrot]

it's like graggle simspon or goncharov. it's really fun tbh

[@Ratscallion_exe]

One thing to note about Brass Beast: It is the only heavy primary that has synergies with the shotguns on a core gameplay level… Spies? Snipers? Scouts? You can pull out a consistent weapon that deals 80/90 damage point blank, much more akin to 2007 heavy play-style. Too slow with the shotgun? Pull out The Eviction Notice, land one hit, and you gain additional speed boost to go with your shotgun. And finally, when it is time to solidify one team’s position on the map, you can rev-up Brass Beast around the cover, or better, use high-ground to drop down on the enemy team, negating the speed penalty, because air strafing has no penalty. When you drop into the fight with heavy’s most important game sense of *TIMING* and *POSITIONING* , it always feels like a titan falling from the sky, shredding through opposition. You become the King piece of the action, anyone that dares challenge you in your dominion, without preparation, will get out-damaged. For Brass Beast Heavy, He can only be defeated by another Brass Beast Heavy, or overwhelming pressure.

[@mrtrash4128]

I love the liberty launcher when used with the rest of its set. You have an extra rocket for jumping around and popping people into the air to desl the real damage (with your mini crit boosted reserve shooter)

[@Gobygober-d5q]

You should have put the classic on the list because when I was starting out on sniper I didn’t realize it was bad until someone pointed that out but at least it had funny explosions when a headshot hits

[@catisticallyspeaking]

Interesting thing to note with the brass beast, it's actually viable in 6s due to the damage resistance making breaking last holds considerably harder, since you're only really switching to heavy on last in 5cp. However, it's worth noting that sometimes a player will swap to heavy when pushing *into* for the extra DPS, and in those instances they almost always go stock.

[@jaredhebert942]

Been waiting for this! (:

[@vaughnrudy8084]

Id go so far as to say the sydney sleeper is a more well designed and interesting weapon that actually makes sniper a SUPPORT class based around lining up and timing shots to maximise the rests of your TEAM's abilities instead of being Just Instant Kill Them: The Weapon. Because tbh with stock sniper is probably the least team-oriented character in TEAM fortress 2

[@Fluffy_W]

for the liberty launcher, it does pair well with the reserve shooter to become a combo soldier kinda thing, you get to keep a secondary without doing too much self damage with it so its easier to go in, combo some people, and get out

[@simpIeidiot]

Used to use the liberty launcher a ton when I was a little baby man but ever since I tried “challenging” myself by using only stock weapons I haven’t switched from stock since

[@SpitfiretheCat16]

honestly I think the Dragon's Fury is a much better training wheels weapon for Pyro, because while it has more costly airblast, it still allows you to use it, and its more gun-like fire system makes a better transition from hitscan type weapons to your literal fire hose as Pyro.

[@tutiaentango]

I usually use the liberty launcher as a more forgiving rocket jumper when playing trolldier (if you use the gunboats)

[@ChannelMiner]

The brass beast goes hard if you position yourself well and i run it with the shotgun, it also goes hard in heavy vs heavy like u said

[@shinobuoshino5066]

Bigger problem for new players is not being aware that you can use mastercomfig to fix performance issues and not knowing obscure (yes I just said it) binds such as class switch (I use numpad for this) and class loadout switch (I use F1-F4 for this), and most important of all, 1-4 over qwerty for sentry's buildings, which get automatically destroyed if already built, I don't have to manually destroy anything, only decide to build something and game takes care of the rest, for the rare case where I intend to destroy my teleporter that is being camped, I can just decide to "rebuild" my teleporter then cancel it. The amount of engineers that don't know to switch to eureka effect, place teleporter then switch back in spawn to jag to upgrade the teleporter x2 faster is insane, almost as insane as the fact that I see players burn to death in spawn while running to locker when they could just hit F1 or whatever loadout they were using to instantly respawn with full health. Even getting metal back to 200 is faster with F1 than running back to locker and I abuse this as engineer, honestly it's almost impossible to play engineer without abusing this, I do extremely fast setups on offense when on attack/defense maps by placing my half cost teleporter, a sentry, hitting F1 to get back to jag with 200 metal, upgrading sentry, F1 again to reset metal and then carry the sentry to frontline. If I'm not the only engineer, the other engineer has 99.97% chance to be building level 1 sentry on frontline just for spy to leftclick on it with his gun (to be fair, a scout could do same thing, sentries start out at very low hp when placed) and immediately remove 130 metal from the game just like that while my lv2 sentry will kill one or two people, while being constant area denial it was made to be, by the time I built my dispenser too, another engineer is STILL looking for metal to attempt to rebuild his lv1 sentry again... It's just mindboggling how people can play like this. Oh yeah and same, frankly, stupid people will certainly come to steal metal from my dispenser because their stupidity leads to them wasting metal and they cannot exist without wasting my metal too... Most games that I am playing engineer, I spend more time helping other engineers setup their stuff than I spend on my own, because when you do it right, it's so fast, that it's not surprising why most people have deep hatred for turtling 4-6 engineers on defense, any uber that destroys over half of their stuff will be rebuilt before another uber can happen, but at the same time, luckily, one team never has 4 engineers who know what they're doing. Also I think brass beast isn't a bad weapon, it's extremely good in MvM and by extension very good for defense. Slower rev time isn't a problem at all, I see gibus heavies permarev with tomislav... Your comparison segment of whether stock or brass beast looks more fun... Obviously stock, but for me it has to do with the fact that I prefer offense, I prefer proactive play more than defensive play, on defense maps, making a proactive play is hard, you can only push so far before you end up in enemy spawn with noone to back you up because objective is most important part of the game and defending team is always tied to objective while attacking team can be anywhere on the map freely because they don't have constraints like that, they can even afford wasting time flanking because they respawn twice as fast, dying on stupid flank as defender means you won't be here to defend objective for 20 seconds, dying on stupid flank as attacker is no biggie, you have about 50 more tries before overtime. For example, dustbowl, if you push too far, enemy spy can backcap 2nd point, if you can't push more than heavy's range worth anyway due to this risk, you may aswell sit with brass beast to kill the spy and everyone else 25% faster. Everything you criticise about brass beast can be deflected as criticism of being the defending team on any attack/defense map, because yes, you're quite literally waiting for enemy to come to you to the objective, if you aren't on objective as heavy when enemy is capturing it, you're being useless. Also yes, on defense there's so much spam, that brass beast both kills enemies faster and helps you die less, brass beast is direct upgrade on some maps, for example dustbowl, heavy's gameplay on dustbowl is holding M1 at a chokepoint and hoping that no crit sticky will pop below your feet, not even tomislav heavy can dodge a crit sticky. Also, brass beast downsides never infuriated me more than the medic in your video who let you get knocked back by the sentry instead of rushing in forward, for some reason medics are so dumb they don't know about the fact that medic is second fastest class in the game and therefore should ALWAYS tank the sentry during uber.

[@loading....001]

OH SHIT, HERITAGE FOR THE FUTURE INTRO, nice to see a video from ya teal! been a while

[@CowboyredPedro]

Yeah when I first got the brass beast, it’s all I used. I saw it as a direct positive but it really turned my play style into being a level 2 sentry, nesting up next to an engi and his dispenser but that’s it… one thing I wish I could take back about this game was picking that gun up at first

[@CowboyredPedro]

I never even really saw Heavy as an offensive class because of this… I always thought he was just a defensive tank

[@calebbraun9505]

I just want to say, the liberty launcher does act as somewhat good training wheels to a sidegrade to the standard on trolldier. The extra rocket can get you out of bad situations for the subclass with the extra rocket, and you don't need to worry about the lower damage because of meme spoon. And yes I know that it has a stigma of the "I can't hit my gardens" primary, but again, extra rocket.

[@devonese0]

I used to be a liberty launcher/batallions backup player when I first started. The splash was amazing for me who wasnt able to hit directs. Then I switched to black box, and I ocasionally play direct hit ever since my aim got better

[@pokedude720]

I'd argue the Machina is one too, since the increased bodyshot damage doesn’t force headshotting as much amd the required scoping doesn’t help with awareness/quickscoping (doubled with the tracers revealing your position)

[@shinobuoshino5066]

bodyshot damage on machina doesn't do anything special though, still can't oneshot demoman without headshot.

[@bdhhsgbyddhggg]

I wouldn’t say I’m a new player to TF2 anymore, I’ve been playing it for a few months now and that’s after having watched content on KZbin about it for like 5 years, but back when I was first starting out I got 3 unlocks for Spy that, although I know they’re horrible at worst and just okay at best, I still use them often when I play as Spy Those unlocks being the Spycicle, the Enforcer, and Your eternal reward Why do I use them? Well, same reason I use the pompson on Engineer and the Classic on Sniper I barely play those classes anyway, so I might as well be as memey and horrible as possible when I do ………… Classic ain’t that bad though

[@anonymousAJ]

17:38 "Airblast is Pyro's most important tool" but... 2007: Flamethrower doesn't airblast 2008: Backburner doesn't airblast 2011: Phlog doesn't airblast There has always been a flamethrower that can only burn enemies It's not a mistake Burning enemies is the core design of Pyro Consequently, flames are Pyro's most important tool Watch some high level Highlander VODs I see remarkably few uses of airblast that accomplish anything While I find it silly that Phlog charges off secondary weapons, Phlog is just a tweaked 2007 flamethrower (guaranteed rather than random crits) Consequently it's the BEST flamethrower to start with I encourage new Pyros to use Phlog+Shotgun and learn vanilla Pyro (ie the fundamentals: positioning, timing, game-sense, what fights you can take, stay alive for the critical moment) before worrying about airblast, flare combos and so on How much training do you need to right click on a burning teammate? 16:39 You ruined a push on upward last with a press of the button G (plus building up the meter and taking an uber yourself) While you can ruin an uber push by just right clicking So how much more skillful is airblast really? Reflecting projectiles sometimes requires much skill However, I think reflect is the most overhyped feature of the airblast I often see Pyros on the front lines trying to reflect demo spam and achieving little That same Pyro would usually be more effective spychecking, denying health/ammo pickups on the flanks, or spamming himself You accuse the Phlog of promoting bad habits but you seem blind to the bad habits promoted by airblast Other bad airblast habits: airblasting enemies that would just die to W+M1 "predictive" reflects that become predictable and get you killed fishing for reflect in a mid-range fight when your secondary would be more effective

[@horse5178]

The Sydney Sleeper is the sniper rifle you use when you want to play sniper but also hate sniper. "iT's a CrUtCh fOr pEoPLe WhO cAn'T HiT hEaDshOts!" Okay? And? I am now being more of a team player, you now still get to play the game after I shoot you, and my team is now coming your your piss-drenched ass.

[@labrat_09]

As one spy main said about the CaD, "One of the greatest strengths of the Cloak and Dagger is that it's very hard to tell when someone is using it." and another thing, they can be pretty scary if they know how to use it correctly

[@gorgesmith8102]

I think you've misunderstood the niche of the brass beast. Since I use it as my primary heavy weapon but I only pick heavy in one situation. There's a heavy on the other team. The brass beast is slow, it is predictable, and your lack of mobility makes you worse against 8 of the 9 classes. But against another heavy in particular those bonuses are exactly what you need to bait and punish an over confident heavy on the other team. If you pre rev with dolokos bar and brass beast, you win against a (non vac pocketed) heavy jump reving into you every single time. Alone. Even if they have a pocket medic and you don't. Brass beast to me is a counter weapon to me. I use it to punish over confident jump reving heavies with pocket medics when my team can't deal with them and being a medic won't help because we don't have a heavy of our own. And it is frighteningly consistent. (Unless their medic is using the vaccinator.) The cloak and dagger I'd just like to add is essentially the only watch you can use in competitive highlander because the enemy team is just too good not to punish you for slipping out of cloak. Not being able to wait for the singular right moment in comp is what makes the other watches so bad in competitive. In casual however the ability to move more freely and casually going for stabs more frequently just works since you don't have to be as careful as you think you have to be in casual then many may think. Since players are more likely to fall for disguises as well means in casual it's a good idea to flex your ability to just do more with the stock invis watch unless the enemy team is just too good to allow you to play that actively.

[@mrsirdba]

I actually love using the brass beast even after a couple thousand hours in the game. While im not the most competitive player (I for some reason main hoovy) I like the gun because it really emphasizes the strenghts and weaknesses of Heavy as a whole

[@Mixxium]

I think the overdose may somewhat fall into this category, where the crossbow is just better, but if you can't survive very long and your team won't protect you, any amount of speed can and will save your life as medic, but if you can sink your crossbow shots almost always and have good positioning I have no clue if the benefit of the extra speed when your team gets wiped is any good

[@Mixxium]

Personally I've gotten a lot of use out of it in the 40-60% uber range, where you are far off from Uber, and can see danger coming soon enough

[@drucy.]

As a Sniper main, I view the Sydney Sleeper more as a sidegrade rather than downgrade to Stock. You can still one-shot up to a Soldier in a single shot since the headshots with this rifle deal mini-crit damage and so a full-charge headshot deal 203 damage. The only class you can no longer one-shot are Heavies. I know this sounds like a bad downside considering Snipers are meant to be a counter to Heavies... however people forget that Heavies already several tool to make themselves survive (and even thrive) against Snipers : the Fist-of-Steel, Natasha and Brass Beast with full overheal, an Uber or just simply moving extremly unpredictably while crouch-spamming. Furthermore, I've noticed that Jarate Heavies tend to retreat almost always, especially when you dealt 203 damage to them and their HP now sits at 97 hp (or 243 if overhealed) so easily one-shotable (or two-shotable with overheal) to both Demos and Soldiers, meaning it still performs the Sniper's job of denying a Heavy push just fine. The 25% faster charge rate means you're gonna output full-charge shots in about 0.5s less wait than stock (3.3s for stock, 2.8s) meaning you'll output full-charges much more often. But the kicker is that Jarate makes EVERY players on your team a mini-sniper : minicrit remove damage falloff. So you trade some of your firepower to GREATLY increase your team's firepower. Fair trade if you ask me. Also, being able to extinguish teammates at any ragen with consuming a cooldown is nice upside too.

[@Fancysaurus]

The thing that kills it for me being a side grade instead of a downgrade is Sniper v Sniper scenarios. With no charge and a headshot you do 68 damage leaving the enemy sniper now pissed off you've turned his screen able to quick scope you. I don't know how many times using that dumb weapon saved the enemy snipers life and killed me right after. I still use it because it's funny.

[@drucy.]

@@Fancysaurus Don't get me wrong, as a Sniper main, I understand the importance of critical quickscopes (unlike Crusty Cheesus) since it can save your bacon from enemy Snipers and all kind of flankers (Scouts, Spies, injured power classes, ninjaneers, etc...) if you're skilled enough. I'm just saying people critically undersell the Sleeper. It still kills a lot of shit pretty fast and to circle back to your example, all you have to do is start charging BEFORE you round the corner (as you'd do if you needed to charge a shot to instant kill pocketed power classes), and at even around half charge, you have enough power to one-shot a Sniper with even just a bodyshot. Sometimes, when I just want to dick around instead of taking the game seriously, I'll replace my trusted AWP with my Sleeper, and "piss" off people (literally and metaphorically) with it. And let me tell you : it often makes other Snipers VERY mad when you dominate them with this thing (especially if you bodyshot them to death repeatedly with it) ! Plus, it's nice to be able to extinguish teammates often and without having to incure a 16 secconds cooldown (because yes, to compensate for not being able to quickscope at close ranges, you should run it with the Bushwacka+Jarate combo).

[@hylobateslar4151]

Perhaps a phlog rework could be giving it 20% less damage, but let it airblast, with reflect damage charging the mmmph more efficiently than just flame damage. This way the phlog goes from W+m1, to a risk reward weapon that encourages you to use airblast effectively if you want to deal more damage.

[@Anomalocaris555]

In the Phlogs defence it made my flair aim insane

[@pogun-xp6to]

I played two frot the ohter day and threre was a bras beast heay f2p that distoryed everyone and pp thought that he was cheating then i got auto alenced and safed him from being kicked

[@batofdestiny]

Surprised you didn’t mention the Black Box (specifically when paired with Concheror). I don’t really see it as a crutch. Well, in a traditional sense that is. I see it as Medic with a rocket launcher. You probably won’t be killing much, and you’ll be a sitting duck without your shotgun. I see it as a handicap to play worse unless you’re using the shotgun with it.

[@damianateiro]

the combination is super effective xd

[@Sasha-zw9ss]

I use it if I want more survivability for more banner deploys (not the Concheror though).

[@blackholetl]

I'm a heavy who runs brass beast almost full time. Course that is also because I like my shotgun more than I like my sandvich. I have no problem switching out to other miniguns when they are nessary but I just enjoy being that lumbering tank and just watching the enemy team scatter behind a corner as I slowly creep around a corner and ther is nothing they can do.

[@carrots6249]

The problem with Brass Beast is the double negative, does it really need to have a slower rev to balanced? Also you should be using a shotgun with it to make up for the mobility and practicality weakness if your going to use it all the time. Only useful for last stands on defense or Frontier cart riders that have insane amount of heals being pump into them, the only actual good uses i've gotten out of it.

[@w4rd3n14]

the sidney sleeper is the best sniper weapon for people wo dont often play sniper.

[@Skull.Hazard]

My hot Phlog take is "Damn, I remember when the Phlog didn't exist and its downside was exclusively on the Backburner instead, so all of the negative press the Phlog Pyros get used to be doled out to Backburner Pyros instead," and it's always been wild to me that Backburner Pyros can airblast. Going back to tf2 a few years ago really threw me for several loops.

[@ZTheTinyTonTerror]

I know over the years TF2 has had some radical balance changes, but the last one on this list blew my mind since I haven't played seriously in ages... Wasn't the CND just a complete upgrade to the stock watch way back when?

[@nean9894]

The ultimate crutch is speed heavy Using the gru, dalokus bar, and stock or tommy in conjunction with a whip/concheror soldier creates a heavy moving at walking speeds while revved up and can outrun a medic when not revved up (I think heavy moves as fast as a scout with gru, concheror, whip but dont qoute me)

[@shinobuoshino5066]

Downside being that he has less health than scout when doing his, lmao.

[@KimFareseed]

Liberty Launcher, for the trolldier that still want blast damage. Or just want to compleat the Airborn Arsenal set loadout. Phlog, ten years on and I still can't get the meter built to use later. Want to continue being able to extinguish teammates. Dosn't stop the good phlog pyro appearing from the flanks to burn down the team. Happens ridiculusly often too on Upward and Frontier on the community servet I play on. Sydney Sleeper, a decade later, I still prefer hardscoping, part of why I am nowdays using Machina and Cozy Camper. I like not missing due to the flinching, I like the hit for prenetrations, and the camper helps minimize the annoying clientside occurance of multiple travers from a single shot. From time to time, I do go to either stock or Bazar just to force myself to not hardscope all the time. Cloak and Dagger, Letrange, Your Eternal Reward, my go to spy loadout. Keeping your actions out of the feed just feels exiting to me. Though, I got to watch my use of voicechat on the community server I play on, all talk, so the speach bubble shows up for them while cloaked. Though, hearing others reactions to battles, or just random discussions feels good, team talk is nice, but it gets lonely. Glad that I can atleast use it unlike the Ringer. The playstyle that requiers isn't for me. The most I get out of it is to help people grind the pumpkin contracts, or fake the death of a teammate sniper in the duel to buy them time.

[@TalakDroma]

I like to use the cloak and dagger to troll engineers on ctf

[@MyBoi976]

14:40 is that the it burns, burns, burns! Song by Loco Loco!?

[@hawkticus_history_corner]

The Liberty Launcher is good for combo Soldier, so paired with either the Reserve Shooter or Panic Attack by taking advantage of the lowered damage to you so you can get point blank and blast their face off. But ya, it can get you into bad habits.

[@moonmelons]

There's a reason you still like the sleeper; because it's title of new-player bait is not one it truly deserves. You say it removes consistency; but it ADDS consistency. No matter how good your aim is, you miss shots. The sleeper allows you to output more landed shots on the enemy team per minute in exchange for those landed shots having typically less individual value. Pegging someone in a teamfight with a high damage shot and making them take minicrits is still a death sentence, it just takes a little longer. Also I mean the weapon is just better balanced than the stock sniper rifle. Sniper can get to absurd cases of power with stock due to players just honestly getting better than I think Valve ever intended them to be.

[@jocaleb0236]

I own a collectors Liberty launcher (make a strangeifier I want my 5k kills swapped to it please) but what you said is 100% true. It is very hard to use like the stock rocket launcher and it is also very hard to swap off of using. It’s an effective spam tool, not a 1v1 killing tool. That’s why kritz is great for it! (It’s great for all weapons) since you have the extra rocket you can spam it around and get more kills. Now you may say I should be using the air strike you are right, the one issue with that is the smaller blast radius which makes it legitimately worse for kritz and spamming. If you try to jump closer shoot 2 rockets into a bunch of enemies and blast off like it’s the Liberty launcher you will maybe kill 1 person and deal no damage to the rest. If you do that with the Liberty launcher, they enemies will likely still be alive but you’ve dealt so much damage that one more rocket or shot from any team mate probably will secure the kills. Like how the direct hit sacrifices splash potential for 1v1 potential the Liberty launcher does the same thing but the other direction. You’re going to suck in 1v1 fights. But against a bigger team, you’re going to do better than stock (if you aren’t the best at rocket jumping and don’t trust the 2 or 3 stock rockets are going to do the trick) and just at overall spam. Just give the Liberty launcher a little more blast radius, not much just something that’s noticeable like maybe 15% and then it would be a great spam tool. But no one likes spammy weapons but hey the demoman gets 8 stickies that deal more damage than the Liberty launcher so I don’t think it matters too much if one of the worst primaries in the game gets a buff.

[@gibbles3981]

In regards to the LL, maybe you would have higher damage output if you didn't always aim for the floor.

[@the8626]

I mean, yeah you'll have a bad time with the libery launcher if you run it with a banner lol

[@GIZMOGNOM3]

-uses Brass Beast -doesn’t use shotgun -surprised they aren’t having fun Ok I know that this is a game and shouldn’t be taken too seriously, but you just roasted my favorite weapon for like 7 straight minutes :( 1. Reject Sandwich Heavy. Embrace Brass Scout. I think Heavy has a problem when it comes to his meta. Although most affective for stock/Tomi, the lunchboxes are not the best for all of Heavy’s Primaries. And by that I mean just the BB and the Hu Long Heater. One of them set’s people on fire, and although fun does have issues. The Brass Beast, however, can be good if you use shotguns. In fact, you need to use your shotgun as a Primary and the BB as a secondary. (I promise I’m being serious) Here’s the thing: Fat scout isn’t bad. Just not as good as Sandwich Heavy. You don’t need to rev, burst damage, just plain fun. And, being at Heavy’s walking speed while still being able to shoot makes positioning more fun, rewarding, and easier. But at the end of the day, you will have less DPS. And being on the love so much, there will be plenty of situations in which a minigun would be perfect. Sure, the other mini-guns could work in these scenarios, but most of the time you’ll be dropping down and falling into a group of enemies. You will probably die If only you could tank 150 damage, kill quicker, and who’s main downsides would be negated by falling from heights you’ll be at while fat scouting so that you could be reved mid air… Here’s what’s great about Brass Scout. The Brass Beast is only good in certain situations with good positioning, where there are a lot of players who don’t realize that you are there and that you have the high ground on. But that positioning wont be possible with your sandwich. The shotguns meanwhile are great at positioning and on-the go gameplay, creating more opportunities where you’re above your unknowing enemies, but deals less DPS then miniguns, and miniguns wont be able to capitalize on those situations. The BB and shotguns are a match made in Heaven. 2. Melees are more usable Sandwich heavy can really only use the GRU, Fists of Steal, and *maybe* the KGB if you wanna play combo-heavy or something. They are limited to utility, as there is no real reason to pull out your melee with the miniguns. Brass Scout though? BB is too slow and shotguns run out of ammo. Melees are…actually usable Don’t get me wrong, stock still sucks and those three I mentioned are still the best, KGB now being equal since shotguns can utilize crits better. But the melees are more viable now. The Eviction notice and Warriors spirit are now fun. Still not the best, but can be fun! 3. Idk what to put here but ending at 2. Seems wrong

[@tuenguyenvan3112]

I use the Brass Beast with Banana, since most Medics don't stick around a living Sentry or don't exist in my team. When they do however, the Banana still provide the Medics with a quicker, smaller health kit compared to Sandvich. Also, I think it's called a Sandvich because it's half a square Sandwich (W is double Vs)

[@yoshyfoods]

I attribute my dropping of spy to the C&D, as I tried to get into him as I was using that watch

[@shinobuoshino5066]

C&D is such a stupid an useless weapon that it's only good on maps with like 0 ammo packs, but even on 2fort I'd rather use stock, implying I'd ever want to play 2fort

[@mythologickmusic]

great content, used to play the shit out of tf2 in 2014, good to see fresh stuff for this game

[@dartimes6048]

The Sydney sleeper is direct upgrade from stock. It’s two negative downsides of no random crits and no headshots are negated by snipers primaries cannot random crit (much like spies knives) and it can headshot just not as well as stock. The 203 damage I good as it will one shot a soldier and demo BUT not heavies. You would never see a full health heavy on the front lines, and even if you bodyshot that heavy is down to half their health, which is deadly if followed up by a direct hit pipe from a demo as the heavy will die.

[@Randomdud751]

27:03 Is spy checking his pulse at his fingers or what is going on here?

[@Mr._Maniac]

I'm only part way through on this video, but my god as a Heavy main myself I agree 200% with the take of the Brass Beast. To me in short terms, while it can work if you use it as you described to use it. For normal use? It can't do anything that any other miniguns can't do, and is stuck with the downside of larping as a sentry.

[@dr.rooster8111]

thank you teal opal for the team fortress 2 video.

[@zerotwo6903]

the cloak and dagger is good i swear

[@dennisv1882]

Liberty launcher + gunboats + market gardener is a pretty good combo that allows for a lot of mobility and reduced fall damage while still dealing decent damage and being able to kill beefier targets with the market gardener. Definitely a different and fun way to play soldier :)

[@Aeromkana]

Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 01:34 The Liberty Launcher 07:28 The Brass Beast 14:39 The Phlogistinator 20:10 The Sydney Sleeper 26:28 The Cloak And Dagger 30:29 Final Verdict

[@thestickopia4619]

I like using the Sydney sleeper just cus it makes people mad

[@Kohchu]

Your definition of "Training Wheel weapon" sure is confusing. Most of the weapons you listed are NOT training wheel weapons, they require more effort to make use of, and excel in situations you can make that use shine; which means newer players are far more likely to realize; They are less versatile then Stock, which is their shortcoming, ergo: A balanced sidegrade that requires more effort to use right. A Training wheel weapon, is something that gives you the same bonus as the Stock, but with more ease of use; like say... The Black Box, at the cost of one rocket, you get health on hit. So rather then learning proper damage thresholds and memorizing health pack locations, new Soldiers will default to it and use the Health on hit to tank fights they otherwise would've lost. The Liberty Launcher on the other hand, is not a training wheel; it's meant to go along with the Airborne Armaments set; composed of itself, the Reserve Shooter and the Market Gardener. All the functions of the Liberty Launcher, are specifically there to empower the other weapons. It has less damage, but you can circumvent that by using the MG or RS; and to make that easier, it lets you Rocket Jump more, has a fast projectile to make popping enemies up easier, and even has an additional shot for if you need to make an emergency escape or do some last ditch damage. It shows it's weakness if you attempt to use it exclusively as a primary, because it's meant to be a Combo weapon, like the Degreaser is.

[@FLAFRefuelled]

i feel the clip talking about which is more 'fun' is somewhat facetious given the editing- not to say it's *wrong* but IMO it gives the impression that WITHOUT the editing it wouldnt be anywhere near as enjoyable

[@Trianull]

The Sydney Sleeper works a littler better conceptually because Sniper is not a front-line class. That being said, the cases where it is most useful are fringe, since you'd have to be in a push with your team against tough human targets, not have enough time to charge a full stock headshot, and not have the jarate equipped.

[@tinytim7950]

The brass beast shines when the team needs a good defensive pivot. Sure sometimes you don't get as many kills, but the threat of an aware brass beast heavy can be a strong deterrent. Even if it's just for a couple lives it can really slow down enemy momentum if you can catch flankers coming towards your spawn

[@Capiosus]

brass beast is to be used with shotgun, not sandvich.

[@assaraan9407]

its funny how the enemy paniks wen you pull out the shotgun and chase them becaus they exspect you to be imobile and pasive but sundenly your in theyr face

[@burgballs5780]

i disagree with your take on the brass beast. try switching to a shotgun, and gru (any gloves would work, but i feel like gru just lets you get to more favorable positioning quicker) and playing flank routes, it changes the gameplay of heavy intensely

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Far as Sydnry goes: Far as you can Make Me Care Sniper's Primary Purpose is Incompatible With A Healthy TF2. Definitionally. Incompatible. With.

[@themoabrigade]

on Defense.... I can 100% accept Brass Beast use.... like if your defending the intel, or a good point with choke points.... but even the Hu long Heater is better when defending the cart I do find the BB to be fun at times, but I love the Natasha and Heater far more Phlogistonator.... no... bad valve..... the Defult flamethrower is better..... you nurfed my Back Burner then made this weapon?!? D=< I like hte Sydney Sleeper... but I acknowledge I suck at getting headshots in any game with sniper rifles so ehh..... I is support sniper not damage sniper w/e! for the C&D I mostly use it to camp an engineer nest, sit there, wait for team push, the moment they start to come in, jump on the engineer sap his builds.... I enjoy turtling :)

[@darkranger116]

Imho Sdyney Sleeper is an alright weapon that functions well enough but has some shortcomings in context to the support function of just popping the head in the first place. While for the Cloak and Dagger I think its crazy that it exists tbh. Almost every time i've used it to backstab a domination, typed an apology in chat and then stopped using it. Or i use it troll people INCLUDING my team if they're actually trying.. It totally messes with the entire dynamic of the watch and invisibility in context to the spy and his disguise kit for me. Having an infinite invisibility is crazy. So much sitting and waiting. I dont want to ""play as the Sniper"" when i play Spy, screw that. I'ld rather be a dead ringer ice-troll, lol

[@FenekkuKitsune]

I don’t like the Liberty launcher because it feels too weak, funnily enough. I look at its stats and all I think is “it’s the direct hit but worse”. I tried it once or twice back when I first played, and it wasn’t for me. I had the same issue with the brass beast, it felt too weak. Bigger damage numbers with the beast, sure, but… I find that the damage numbers in tf2 can be very misleading, especially if there’s healing involved. I don’t use the phlog purely because I do agree that airblast is important (and I find the phlog hard to use… ironically) but I also find it REALLY HARD to get good at air blasting. 9 times out of 10 the soldier or demo shoots immediately after I airblast, or immediately before. Trying to split medics off their Uber targets results in death or the team just not existing to capitalise. It’s… difficult. The only times I ever actually find myself having fun with air blasting is using it to peel. Scout that’s harassing me too hard? Airblast him away and run. Soldier trying his best to kill me? I can’t airblast his rockets, but I can airblast him! So on so forth. Sydney Sleeper is a meme.

[@KelltheTitan]

I would like to throw another positive onto the Brass Beast. You are almost guaranteed to win Heavy duels. I've taken down Heavies that had continual Medic support during our fight because they had Stock or Tomislav while I had my beasty boi and a Dalokohs bar increasing my Max HP, which also increases the threshold of the Beast's damage reduction. When using the BB offensively, I'm pretty vulnerable to Spy, because I'll stop just before a corner to eat my chocolate bar before jumping around the corner revving my gun.

[@isenokami7810]

So, while I enjoy Pyro from time to time, I’m very shamelessly a w+m1 Pyro. Airblast doesn’t come naturally to me, and I haven’t even begun to learn to predict incoming projectiles to make it useful to me. And yet I don’t use the Phlog. It’s tempting, I use airblast rarely enough that I might as well, but…maybe it’s psychological, but I swear I start playing worse the second I equip it.

[@tellyg7985]

The Sydney Sleeper maintains great use on the high end as a means to crush engineer nests from afar if even the engie's toe is poking out from behind his sentry which it often is. The faster charge time allows you to do a rapid 150 damage to the sentry if you can manage to tap out the engie, and another quick full charge shot or someone else firing at it, the sentry is gone. You also often just need to do only 150 or often less damage to the explosive jumping soldier/demo. Sure, you can't immediately take out a heavy or do the bs quick two quickscope shots on them, but people forget that it charges up to do over a hundred damage in like a second of scoping in. It's also great to make cocky sniper mains that think they're unkillable really upset when you dominate them out by shooting them in the leg repeatedly on 2fort.

[@wesselvanharrewijn3082]

i like the cloak and dagger. i find it more reliable to always be able to cloak when i need to rather than to run out and be left in a pickle. the downside of the weapon being the need for patience is actually a good learning tool for players if they use the tool correctly. i feel like the cloak and dagger rewards tricky movement when trying to run from enemies. if i have enough space to move around i'm usually able to escape the enemy pretty well. the few times it doesnt work is because of unlucky positioning, not having enough space to escape [being sandwiched in between enemies or a wall], or someone being a cheater that can see me being cloaked, deliberately trying to bump me in the most suspicious "i can see you cause wallhacks" way just so he can justify killing me. or skip all that fidgeting and just have a bot kill me on sight. i know the tool well enough to know how people respond to bumping into a spy, or chasing a spy who has just cloaked. they shoot around frantically, moving in a single direction, or they stand still and shoot frantically trying to locate me using their bullets... someone doesnt just stand completely still without firing, look in my direction and then walk forward to bump and immediately shoot me. YES I AM TALKING ABOUT A CHEATER and yes i can confirm they cheat. 2.7 hours in tf2, 20 hours total, 1 vac ban on record. only has 2 games. top scoring as scout. and he shot me before when he was running past in a direction that did not align with where i was standing at all. anyone that has a vac ban, only has 2.7 hours on tf2 and is top scoring in a match has to be a cheater. coincidences? i think NOT!!!!!

[@fractalisomega9517]

I love the Liberty Launcher since it’s got very unique upsides and trades losses in some matchups for much better matchups that Stock can often lose The high speed of the rockets lets you chase down medics and scouts while also throwing timing off for pyros However you notice worse matchups with anything having higher health It’s a fun weapon and a fair trade IMO, it just requires a different mindset… it’s just much less obvious than Demoknight I play both Stock and LL and find they’re comparable enough that bouncing between the two can throw off any Pyros and Scouts that might be harassing you

[@Tom-vx7qh]

I think it would be really neat if the liberty launcher had a deploy/holster speed bonus, making it like the degreaser for soldier, a combo tool. It would also make the set it's part of make even more sense, since faster switch speed makes it easier to land crits with the reserve shooter or market gardener.

[@Awesomeness-iz3dh]

You'd have more fun with the Brass Beast if you didn't run it with the Sandvich. You need a shotgun to play Brass Beast effectively, since they cover your main weakness with the Brass Beast in giving you damage to fend off enemies when you're not spun up. I find your comment that it 'doesn't require positioning' to be hilariously wrong, as it actually requires far better positioning than the other miniguns. I think of it sort of like the Direct Hit in that way. It rewards good play with big damage, but where the Direct Hit tests your ability to aim precisely, the Brass Beast tests your positioning knowledge and judgement on when to rev up and when to retreat. Running it with your shotgun of choice is some of the most fun you can have playing Heavy, in my opinion; you get the highest DPS in the game and much more versatility thanks to your shotgun covering you in a pinch. It gives you reason to switch between weapons and put some thought into what you shoot the enemy with instead of just using the minigun no matter what, and if you know how to position yourself well, you can demolish a server with it. I think your problem is that you play with it like it's the stock Minigun, which you absolutely cannot do; it requires a more thoughtful playstyle where you need to choose where to rev up carefully but if you choose well you can absolutely lock that area down. I encourage you to equip a shotgun (I prefer the Family Business personally) and give it another try. Trying the Brass Beast is earnestly what made me love playing Heavy.

[@zipflik7887]

I disagree with the Brass beast. The rev-up penalty actually means that positioning is more important, and more difficult, especially on attack. So to get the best position, you have to take risks getting there (which actually usually makes it better to have a shotgun secondary instead of a lunchbox). It generally changes the way you think about playing heavy, and your role. You become more of a crowd control class, in the sense that you stop pushes, and lock down areas, or in offensive team plays, you either become the reason why the attack is unrelenting (by not being the foremost man on the frontline, but instead the slowly advancing point behind which ground gained is a no-go for the enemy, but a retreat to safety, without being out of the fight fully for your team), or you become a second line of attack on your own, especially by doing a scout like flank, or just coming from a different direction, with maybe a med or another power class, and not being the real people push, but making sure the enemy is always in crossfire, as long as they hold the objective. Also as a bonus, you win any heavy on heavy 1v1s where it's somewhat equal to start with, unless you are at considerable range, and the other guy has a tommyslav Once I realised this, the brass beast became my favourite minigun, although I still rarely use it on some types of maps, due to the changes in what routes people take, and the positions of the objective. For example payload maps generally have only one or two places where a brass beast heavy is in his element, Koth maps are basically 50/50, etc. Control points and attack/defense maps tend to be the best for a brass beast heavy, I've found. Basically with the brass beast you have to either lean in to the tank=impassable wall, or into very aggressive initial positioning, but not necessarily feeling the need to chase people down, a few kills and some retreats, but position fully secured is better for you than many kills, but the enemy is likely to push back here in the next 30-40 seconds. Basically there's a time and a place for a brass beast heavy, it's just that most people think these times and places are somewhere else than they really are.