[TF2] I Don't Like The Machina

I never asked for this gun.
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Music used:
Deus Ex OST
Oahu Beach Stroll - • Oahu Beach Stroll - n...

[@proto_maver1ck]

You use the Machina to land collaterals. I use the Machina so people can see me miss. We are not the same.

[@vaan_]

me when I run out of ammo and am still 0-0

[@joanaguayoplanell4912]

You use the Machina for it's stats I use the Shooting Star because fun kill animations. We are not the same.

[@deathbot2k572]

@@joanaguayoplanell4912same

[@coolsquid22]

I use it so i can see where i am aiming

[@burtenplays]

I use the Machina for just how ostentatious it is. I like the sound it makes and the sound it makes when you get a pen kill. I still actively run around with it aggressively like you see people using the huntsman. I still only aim for headshots unless I see an arm poking out around a corner and I like the laser light show. Some people like my brother and Fish might not like it since other snipers will know where you are, I like it because enemy snipers know where I am. They see the invitation and they come to dance. If I kill them first it ain't a problem. Sure I can just use stock and maybe be more effective but it just ain't as cool. No war paint makes me sad tho :

[@alekgold18]

Main reason why it’s banned in highlander (from what I understand) is cause it cripples the demo and pyro and because hardscoping is the meta, you’re going to be getting these shot far more than in normal play as it’s the “correct way” to play sniper

[@michaelbowman6684]

Yeah, it's basically just a free +15% damage boost in a competitive environment.

[@mouthwide0pen]

​@nathanwaterser8218It's not that direct upgrades are necessarily a problem. Third Degree isn't banned because... well, who cares? You'd need to be really stupid to run at the medics pocket with a fire axe on an off class thats not even worth using in 6es most of the time.

[@threescoops8672]

12:28 Fish when he sees a player that writes books for a living

[@Kenlaboss.]

I only use the Machina in order to one-shot that fully overhealed Heavy, or whomever feels invincible otherwise.

[@lastfirst5863]

Wasn’t expecting an Xavier renegade angel reference, but I’m happy to receive it.

[@The_Jho]

Remember the cooler it looks the worse it is. R.I.P. bison

[@deathbot2k572]

i use the shooting star because i like the disintegration on kill and collats

[@wakkocastaway2043]

maybe for the penetrate thing, it only does full damage to all targets at full charge and at less charges it still penetrates but does less damage to any targets hit by the bullet that has penetrated

[@RedLily97]

That tracer round that broadcasts your location can be a big downside on maps with less good hiding spots. The bazaar bargain is just more better with the head mechanic.

[@steven_gt1178]

you can also kill a full health dead ringer spy with the full charge headshot

[@666chaox666]

I use the Machina when I'm not able to hit headshots for some reason that day but I still want to play Snipper. The extra damage is pretty useful, even when you don't get a kill. It's like the Sydney Sleeper, even if you don't kill them, you can scare them away from you, effectively halting any push they might have had. It's not great for me as someone who wants to frag out but it's good for the team. Anyways, I mostly use the AWP. No reason not to.

[@lucstestaccount6852]

I'm average at hitting headshots, I use it because the lasers are cool.

[@__-be1gk]

It feels like the machina is supposed to be the sniper version of the brass beast, it's big, strong as fuck, slow as fuck, and LOUD, even the tracers play into this.

[@VagueCastle649]

In that case, the hitman's heatmaker seems to be the sniper version of the tomislav. It's skinny, slightly weaker, fast af, and quiet, the weaker bodyshot damage even plays into the extra precision requirements.

[@davidhong1934]

That would, unfortunately, make the Sydney Sleeper analogous to the Huo-long Heater Two weapons that feel weaker than the other options unless team members are actively helping out

[@Rylainecchi]

They should give the classic legshot back, so sniper now have a natascha counterpart.

[@ludwigiapilosa508]

The Shooting Star reskin is quieter

[@Looona_fan]

​@@VagueCastle649 That actually really works.

[@donanilao7724]

8:26 That enemy Spy must've been like: "Ah shit. Uh... *SLAP MY HAND."*

[@Bangbanggooberblat69]

true shit

[@Benito675]

Honestly not slapping his hand was a bigger war crime than all other combined

[@TheGhostThatWas]

no way that dude with 300k kunai kills didn't use a strange farm, or is the most dedicated basement dweller in the entire game

[@asinski324]

man you are trying hard to get attention with those 3 comments

[@moonscorched]

its stabbystabby

[@thisbox]

For reference - that's about 83.3 Hours of non-stop melee swinging.

[@zzyxxyzz5442]

there's a cracked pyro main with over 400000 kills on their backburner that fucking melts teams and dominates halves of entire teams. I'ven't a doubt those kills were earned. some players just Really Like certain weapon ig

[@СашаЛагаев]

@@asinski324 It's not that deep.. Guy had 3 opinions on different parts of the video.

[@Lucky_RFMDA]

What I love about the Machina is you can look at a group of enemies and aim at the Medic. I'm like "My weapon don't care you are hiding behind your teammates, you're done". Also if you locate an enemy sniper, in some maps you can aim at him while you use his teammates as cover. Edit: also the random unlucky spy kills I have got is insane

[@TheGhostThatWas]

this is way cooler than the popular playstyle is has now tbh.

[@filthycasual6118]

That's the main reason I named mine "Don't care, dropped the Med".

[@Kedamojo]

Dude, you opened my eyes to this thing. Nice game sense advice man.

[@AGrayPhantom]

I think you forgot that headshots are hard. I'll go for the body.

[@ignika84]

He tends to forget that not everyone is at his competency level when it comes to the game, especially when it comes to sniper.

[@ImDelphox]

The body shot damage also applies to sentries, a fully charged machina shot will put a level 3 down to low enough health to then squirt it to death with the smg from across the map before the engie can do much about it

[@TheQuenchiestCake]

Most snipers in real life prefer aiming for the body, too.

[@themilkman6969]

you could just spend like 5 hours in tr_walkway

[@themilkman6969]

@TheDoc_K i’m not saying you can’t play the game, i’d just rather nobody be openly hateful about a marginalised group while that’s happening.

[@zigadox]

Fish, you missed something important: the Machina allows a play style impossible for all other sniper primaries: the ground sniper. You see, bullets and arrows normally can hit a teammate that gets in the way, so you usually go to higher ground. HOWEVER, with the machina, you can do charge shots from behind your team to abuse closer sight lines while shielded by meat. It’s not about penetrating enemies Fish, it’s about penetrating teammates so the shots land!!! Ground sniper is fun!

[@gavros9636]

They should add penetration to all melee weapons.

[@ShakerSilver]

Teammates don't actually block your sniper's bullets, this was deliberately added to prevent inadvertent bodyblocking by your own team.

[@tuenguyenvan3112]

huge brain move. also, griefer cannot bodyblock you anymore, you can just shoot through teammates

[@licemere9899]

But arrows don't interact with teammates?....

[@sud1881]

@@licemere9899yeah but that is limited by range

[@aarotron2189]

I do get little sadistic enjoyment purposefully bodyshotting with machina. To extend that skial admin banned me from server

[@Hitoshuratdn]

The average Skial admin moments

[@VanessaMagick]

Being banned from Skial is a rite of passage, my friend.

[@maschinen181]

11:11 "id be more happy with less overall damage but faster charge" so sydney sleeper lmfao

[@jblazerndrowzy]

Fuck, imagine if the Sydney Sleeper had the penetration stat I would literally never use any other rifle

[@deyontemyers4109]

Peebeam

[@Silungar]

Sniper Mains: “I don‘t like the Machina, because it forces you into one single playstyle.“ Normal People: “Sniper has more than one playstyle?“

[@matheusrios4223]

Outside of the huntsman, I really wish someone explain it to me how the other rifles change the sniper play stile.

[@switZ7Q]

​@@matheusrios4223the classic:

[@jimshotfirst4887]

​​@@switZ7Q ah yes my favorite subclass: Bad Sniper

[@LordRemiem]

It has two! ... sniper and bowman

[@shaynehughes6645]

Imagine being a sniper main who thinks sniper should have options to fight someone too close to snipe. Fish

[@JrdnKritz]

The virgin spy : backstabs a razorback sniper, panics, then either running away with cloak or shoots The chad spy : 8:24

[@khoaitaynuong1062]

today im gonna try it

[@fanimation617]

“It was a prank bro”

[@newturtle3]

Rock paper scissors fot a 2nd chance 😂

[@darthvaderbutwayshittier7054]

Bodyshotting Soldiers with a Machina when they're about to Rocket Jump is very funny, they almost universally kill themselves with it instantly after.

[@trevorrose3769]

You my friend just unlocked some very funny memories for me XD

[@shadowvincent8718]

As someone who has the Machina as one of my most used weapons i found that there are two types of Machina Snipers. 1: A Sniper that uses it to hit bodyshots because they cant hit headshots to save their life. 2: A Sniper that is a god at hitting headshots and knows that he should probably use other Sniper rifles but uses the Machina because it looks cool and because the penetration shot the rare times it hits is a immense dopamine boost for said Sniper.

[@onef1n1ty]

i am number 2 lol

[@shadowvincent8718]

Same@@onef1n1ty

[@ItsWoodSK]

@@shadowvincent8718 im 2 but the only reason i use it is because if you know s1mple hes known for taking his suppressor off to let people know hes there and kind of a scare tactic i do it for the same reason to let other snipers and enemy team to know im there

[@Eddie-yv1ix]

3. Someone who's rich to buy a strange one because dear God wtf are those prices

[@taka8882]

i just like the big number... is that such a bad thing??

[@corrinvondrachen1097]

So this can effectively be summed up, grossly as; Hardscope bad. Body shots bad. Puts more value onto positioning. Firstly, hardscoping is fine, not everyone can do quickscopes that well. Secondly, body shots are fine. You aren't always going to get that headshot off. Some damage will always be better then no damage. Thirdly, positioning. The tracers are great and to be honest, I don't think anyone gives a shit about them. Plus, the inability to fire unscoped just means you gotta be a bit smarter at where you stand, and puts more value on a damage-dealing secondary, something 90% of snipers I see don't do (it's always jarate bushwacka). There are plenty of times I agree with your sentiments, even partially...but I gotta disagree almost fully here.

[@VanessaMagick]

I've had issues with arguments like this in the past because it implies that Sniper can only do one of two things. You use the Machina? You have to bodyshot. No point going for headshots, ever, because the weapon you're using doesn't specifically advantage you for headshots. You use the Heatmaker or something? You have to headshot! There's no reason to ever bodyshot under any circumstances because you do less damage! But that's not realistically how it plays out. These are just examples obviously, but the Machina is still just as good as stock at headshooting enemy gamers, and the Heatmaker's bodyshot damage is still perfectly adequate sometimes even if it can't oneshot light classes or Medics. Don't see your weapon as the absolute defining role of your playstyle. Maybe there's a particular chokepoint I know I might get a lot of collat damage through, so I'll use the Machina. That doesn't pigeonhole me into a charge-and-peek bodyshot-from-China machine for the entire game though. It's like people who seem to think the Backburner has no airblast at all, or Soldiers who switch off the Black Box if a Medic exists on their team. TF2 games are way too dynamic to think like this.

[@ireallydontknow278]

This is probably the smartest TF2 player to date Not taking the stars at face value and actually thinking about gameplay Like sure the headshot damage on the machina is the same as stock if not fully charged Does that matter? No As long as the damage is similar to stock you can use it like stock Like sure for some weapons I'd understand like the bfb you have to change your play style if you want to use it But for the machina you can do the exact same thing

[@thememelordbobbeh3107]

For me, the machina is about preventing bodyblocking. It's about not caring that the enemy medic is hiding behind his heavy BF.

[@ZaTrapu]

Finding out that Soundsmith is from Texas isn't something I was excepting to find. As like Fish said, they're polar opposites in pretty much every way except for their love for casual. That's the only thing they have in common Edit: and their hate for sniper

[@deathninja3389]

and they're hate for sniper

[@ZaTrapu]

@@deathninja3389 yeah, true

[@alphathewolf5054]

So who was the other person that Fish mentioned?

[@deathninja3389]

Zesty jesus

[@alphathewolf5054]

@@deathninja3389 thanks

[@reagansido5823]

Man it is sooooo bad that you have to scope in to shoot it. it's not like quick scoping is already unreasonably strong or anything.

[@Reilers]

So The Machina is bad because it forces the Sniper to... be a Sniper. You know, the guy in the back of the team that takes his time to carefully and slowly pick off enemies one by one. This really says a lot about how fuckin stupid Sniper is in this game.

[@khodas1030]

It's as if you haven't played sniper, bc if you did, you'd know how valuable free 50 damage would be, and how difficult it is to hit an up close quickscope instead of using jarate+bushwacka

[@Helperbot-2000]

@@Reilers yup

[@luka9967]

quickscoping gets a lot of hate for something that takes a lot of skill to pull off consistently, like i don't see how quickscoping is that much different than a pyro that hits every flare and reflects every shot, a spy that always gets a stab or a scout that dodges everything?

[@LyritZian]

​@@luka9967Flares aren't hitscan, backstabs aren't long-range, and Scout can't perfectly dodge hitscan. I don't think quickscopes are that huge a deal, either, but get better comparisons...

[@Drengi-A-Duraz]

So it's a sniper rifle, that makes you play like a real sniper and how sniper was designed in the first place.

[@drsteiner12]

Ikr, outrageous that sniper are supposed to be undetected, wait for the target at the perfect moment take the shot and gtfo out of there, like how ACTUAL snipers are supposed to do? (Source: my father was a sniper in the Korean Military)

[@korhol2065]

Wow, who knew that a sniper rifle is meant to be used at long range and if you really wanted close range capabilities maybe choose literally any other class

[@mouthwide0pen]

"it makes you play like a real sniper" By encouraging you to shoot at Not The Head? There's literally no benefit to using Machina's charge for headshots over stock. If you're aiming for the head with a full charge, the Machina isn't doing anything different. How is this "how Sniper was designed in the first place" if the weapon doesn't fucking do anything different when you shoot at the head?

[@mouthwide0pen]

Sniper was designed to not aim at the head, apparently.

[@trevorrose3769]

Truly the single most balanced rifle in the entire game

[@red-black8138]

the machina gives me the confidence to even hit my shots in the first place. I will literally miss stationary targets with stock, with the machina I don't have that problem.

[@Appletank8]

How does the Machina change anything, besides being unable to hip fire?

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

@@Appletank8 Confidence. Whether it be from the increased bodyshot damage allowing you to be more effective to the overpenetration on enemies allowing you to hit more people, it can make someone more confident in their abilities as Sniper.

[@red-black8138]

@@Appletank8 Like pumpkin head said. It give me confidence. There isn't that much pressure to hit a headshot to guarantee me a pick and that gives me the ability to focus and hit my shots in the first place.

[@vaan_]

I have the opposite issue I'm pretty sure it's psychological, but the loud ass sound + tracer makes me miss way more than with stock To test my theory, I modded the game to replace the sound and hide the tracer, and went to play with bots for a few rounds, suddenly my accuracy went up

[@wakegan791]

i once picked up a dead teammate's Strange Professional Killstreak Machina, and it gave me the confidence to land a domination on all three of the enemy team's snipers.

[@gliscornumber151]

So, I see your points. But I somewhat disagree. I do find the machina fun. I see it as a sniper rifle with insurance, I can play normal sniper, headshotting and all that. But, sometimes, you're just gonna miss and hit a bodyshot. And this weapon gives you more wiggle room for when that headshot doesn't register. Furthermore, bodyshotting gives you more wiggle room when attacking enemies, like you said in the video, while this weapon doesn't kill them, it will cripple soldiers, pyros, and demos to the point where they'll either die to any chip or self damage, or be forced to run back to spawn, which is almost as good as killing them anyway. I personally have no issues with bodyshotting, hence why I I use the weapon. It's as soundsmith said in the stereotypes video I'm "willing to give up the flashiness of a headshot to secure a kill" and yeah, I don't give a damn about how I kill my opponent, I just care that they're dead. I think the issue is, you play aggressively, on a class that wasn't designed to play aggressively, so when a weapon comes a long that doesn't fit your playstyle, you don't like it.

[@thedappercrow5882]

8:08 “I like being aggressive” Fish you are in their back line as a sniper and you just bang their medic and leave, I think that’s a bit more than aggressive lol

[@OkamioftheRinnegan]

Reminder that "hardscoping to a full charge" takes all of three seconds. You're wayyyyy out of position if the enemy is less than three seconds away from you

[@SenyiKimmo]

unless said enemy is a trolldier, but yeah. the whole reason sniper is notorious is _because_ he is so easily capable of killing people from beyond their range of retaliation, so staying zoomed in to charge a shot shouldn't be that big a deal anyway.

[@zeldies1976]

6:58 bodyshots are easier to hit though, you can't reduce sniper effectivity to raw damage output. I'd say that the machina niche is locking down one particular corridor at all costs from afar. Or when you just suck on that day and still want to contribute.

[@Dat-Mudkip]

...or you're an idiot on ctf_turbibe camping friendly vents like my stupid ass.

[@Abysalss]

Ok but counter point, I’m counter sniping the asshole who dominated me as scout and I’m sick of that little icon so I switch to makina get an easy body shot kill and go back to scout to have fun

[@TwilightRO1]

"It's not the way i like to play" , There. Literally the entire point of the video.

[@nosu5530]

Maybe this is the reason why the title said "I don't like The Machina"?

[@korhol2065]

Yeah and the answer in this scenario would just be “so? Use a different weapon”

[@RandomFurry07]

​@@korhol2065and he actually does do that

[@TriggerzConnors]

But you know what something funny? The machina doesn't have ignoring bullet resistance. Soldier's battalions, Medic's vacc, and some powerups. This gun has a penetration feature, but you can't one-shot people when low charge than full.

[@lefishe5845]

Wait your telling me each rifle except this one resists damage resistances? Bloody hell i hate snipers even more now.

[@irohnic473]

@@lefishe5845i think this guy is wrong. I think they are affected by resistances, at least medic vaccinator and soldier battalions

[@lefishe5845]

@@irohnic473 ah OK.

[@SomeKindOfFish]

​​@@lefishe5845 I think what he's trying to say is that the machina states "bullet penetration" in the sense of damaging multiple targets, while other weapons like the enforcer have "damage penetration" in that it ignores resistances. However, the game doesn't really use terms to differentiate the two penetration types.

[@TriggerzConnors]

@SomeKindOfFish Imagine they're doing pub stomping using vaccs and battalions at the same time, making it unfair to play on casual.

[@user-Tod-The-Toadster]

"the Machina makes me play like a sniper and I don't like that" There, saved ya 12 minutes

[@DoneThatSeenThat]

fun fact: the machina has the pierce effect on headshot as well so idk what the cope is

[@gabrielsantosbastos5257]

He hates hardscope i think

[@DevixianTheOriginal]

Listen, I use the machina purely because it shoots through my allies. I cannot tell you how many kills I've lost because one of my teammates just so happened to walk in the way.

[@garagara4849]

But... Isn't that how ALL sniper primaries work? Unless I'm wrong, your bullets never stop on hitting your teammates

[@wakegan791]

​@@garagara4849they do. i failed to land lots of perfectly lined up shots because our medic was moving erratically- jumping and running all over the place.

[@DevixianTheOriginal]

@@garagara4849 nope. All bullets for all classes can be stopped by your allies, just like projectiles

[@darkranger116]

its almost as if every sniper rifle primary is LUCKY to even BE half baked in the first place.

[@mbona1878]

Fish is mad about getting stabbed by stabby lmao

[@rsenjoyer7706]

Please don't change the Machina. Its fine as is. You don't like the Machina because it wasn't made for you, that's fine, that's why we have options. But its still a balanced side grade, and there are people who like to take it slow. And I'd say its doing its job perfectly because you can tell immediately it forces you to play vary differently than what the other snipers entail. In addition I'd argue that the Machina is more balanced in the base game then stalk. Snipers two primary problems: Counter play; Short range weakness being mostly negligible. Counter play solution: Big fucking colored Tracers. Lack of short range weakness solution: No unscoped shooting.

[@-RandomStranger-]

A really good balance change i see in most tf2 mods is giving sniper transparent, white tracer shots which aren't as obvious as machina's, but you WILL see it if a sniper shoots near you

[@-RandomStranger-]

also un-scoped shots aren't why sniper is so good upclose, it's because of jarate+bushwacka and quickscoping

[@rsenjoyer7706]

@@-RandomStranger- yes, and? its a minor but noticeable nirf, anything more would be overkill.

[@-RandomStranger-]

@@rsenjoyer7706 how about reverse range fall off like the crusaders crossbow?So snipers couldn't headshot you from closer range, where they're supposed to be weak

[@rsenjoyer7706]

@@-RandomStranger- I've thought about that, But because that could have effects both positive and negative, I think you should think about that stat on a case by case bases. For example, I think the Machina shouldn't be touched at all. But for something like the bazaar Bargen or stalk I'd be interested. As for the others, I cant decide.

[@ootoot2152]

Evil FSoaS be like: "Man I really love bodyshots and hardscoping!"

[@Mic.vencer]

2:12 “Hardly a stealthy gun despite the stealth game it comes from” It’s not exactly a stealthy gun to begin with in said stealth game so I feel that checks out just fine…

[@Jenner_IIC]

Personally as a complete machina + cozy camper gremlin (back when I still played), yeah machina is at best mid in terms of solely performance and makes you super visible due to tracers and just being loud But that's exactly why I love it, it's a FLEX, nothing gives me a more immense sense of power than absolutely DUNKING on a bazaar bargain sniper with objectively inferior rifle (especially in sniper v sniper fights)

[@dennisv1882]

I think one aspect you didn't mention enough is how using this gun for like a minute or two makes the enemy really afraid of crossing some sightlines for some reason, so you can fuck them mentally with it

[@ErrorNamenotfound-mx7bv]

Psychological damage doesn't appear on the leaderboards

[@MrMcstrong]

Penetrate teamates to hit intended targets. Dab on your enemies with cool laser beam. Let everyone know where you are, and that you've got bad aim 😎. Otherwise make them conscious of you as a distraction and cause panic. Go click click unscoped for fun sound and sparks. Stronger first shot on sentries that are being babied. Giving away your position matters more when you don't have your team defending you or if the enemy sniper is looking for you. But normal snipers will look for other snipers irrespective of weapon, it just makes it easier for them on the first life.

[@fishstickonastick-gaming]

Redundnat

[@maozedong69420]

You fell off

[@Boroda4Gaming]

1:14 fuck, thats me :(

[@LeviAuren]

1 minute in: my answer is a fairer rifle that lets me get multi-kills

[@isabellegrimes9366]

imagine a player penetrating huntsman lmao

[@skyixyes3971]

My favorite thing to do if i have a friend playing with the machina is to stand in front of him as an invisible cloak and dagger spy. Its been a while but if i recall correctly it triggers the sound effect and also can be used to eat shots meant for your friendly sniper from anyone including enemy snipers who are NOT also using the machina. It is also my second favorite way to confuse enemy snipers, right being disguising as a friendly sniper pretending to actually be one. As a side note, you can use this to learn what you can try/do to make a non god sniper miss. (Also using the dead ringer while doing this creates less frustration and reduces downtime if the dodge isn't successful)

[@FishDrinkLightGreen]

The bit about Soundsmith and ZestyJesus's shared hatred of sniper is really funny to me. I love both creators and I didn't ever think about how both are gingers that live in Texas

[@FlakkerDPS]

Here's my take: I love deus ex and as such, the machina. I'd tweak it to turn it into an absolute death cannon which is how the longsword works (actual in-game name in deus ex, don't know why it was the only D.E weapon to get a name change when the others didn't) Slower reload speed, keep the lack of noscopes and tracer rounds, less bullets But Keep the damage and make it apply permanently and not just while fully charged Make it go not only through team mates but buildings Give it the enforcer's quirk of bypassing resists Now you have a passive yet strong sniper playstyle that renders you fucked if you don't change your positioning. You know 'cause that's how sniper should actually work instead of having powerful close range tools to rival the bs powerclasses have. (The whole "becomes weak with proximity" thing) PS: also fuck quickscoping in general, i curse faze clan and mw2 for introducing such dogshit playstyle to snipers as a weapon in gaming because it fundamentally fucks balancing the class for the amount of people who want it even if it doesn't make sense for the weapon to pull that off. Snipers are meant to be long range pick players with clunky mobility and weapon handling who become easy prey at close range, not a fucking cowboy with a hand death cannon.

[@davidpettigians]

I use the machina just for the design, I don't care it's redundant and I gimp myself while playing sniper to be a bit more respectful of other players

[@CallofDutyBlackOps28]

when i can be heavy, eat a dahlokas bar, have the heavy metal fists of steel, and STILL get one tapped by that monster of a weapon, ... it's the only sniper weapon that makes me go "This is sad day!..."

[@TheGhostThatWas]

oh my God the shot at 6:45 totally deserved to get taunted, lmao

[@czvz762]

that was WILD

[@Eddie-yv1ix]

Even the soldier was impressed

[@vjkvkj]

I really only use it because it looks cool

[@pogobod2128]

Brimstone coal

[@journeyman9162]

I like how yo used music from the original Deus Ex. Was this meant to be a pun on the phrase "deus ex machina"?

[@shrimpchris6580]

This weapon is literally from deus ex, that's why it has that name

[@alexrexaros9837]

I'm gonna be honest and say the model really doesn't fit the artstyle at all and you can't debate it. I'd rather have the Invasion reskin instead, it only it was still available.

[@onef1n1ty]

I always thought this, the only reason I use the Machina is because the Shooting Star is the most expensive item in my inventory. The Machina is one of the worst sniper rifles. More damage on a class that can already one-shot every class in the game is silly, and collaterals rarely come into play. The tracer rounds give away your position, the worst thing that can happen as a sniper, to little to no benefit. On the same tier as the Sydney Sleeper.

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

"Tracer Rounds give away your position." You would be very surprised at how many TF2 players have the memory of a dementia patient.

[@vaan_]

@@lordpumpkinhead265More importantly is that giving away your position isn't even that much of a loss 99% of the times snipers have their team backing them up, so even if the enemy team knows their position, the only real counter is for a spy to be able to get to him (good luck if he's near teammates), a better sniper to counter, or for the entire team to fall apart. "Avoiding the sightline" doesn't work when you have to do so to play the objective.

[@nikkifish]

Tracer lines honestly help me with shooting my targets better honestly. Also I just love how the rifle sounds

[@nikkifish]

Just because you think it’s a bad weapon, doesn’t mean that it’s shit with everyone else. Sniper is already a broken ass class and not allowing him to make quick scopes or no scopes makes him balanced as well as I already praised the tracer lines so that people can see where it’s coming from and be aware that there’s a sniper.

[@onef1n1ty]

If we’re talking about casual TF2, a Sniper will be in the backline but his teammates won’t come for his aid immediately. Good maps have multiple flank routes where a Sniper is weak against, and I guarantee there will be nobody patrolling the flank routes in a casual round. He is “weaker” at close range and can’t react that fast- especially if that Sniper is hardscoping which is that the weapon encourages you to do. This is a weapon that is only functional in comp as a RESKIN because of communication and how situational the upsides are. There is no reason to use the Machina unless you’re looking for clips. That being said, it is a marvel of game design. I believe tracer rounds should apply to every Sniper rifle because it encourages better positioning and makes the fight fairer (after you’ve already lost someone). It encourages target priority even more than other weapons, because if you’re not constantly moving around with the Machina, you will die. The name “Machina” comes from the phrase “Dues Ex Machina,” a quick solution to a difficult problem that seemingly comes out of nowhere. The Machina is what Sniper should be.

[@redamerican5830]

Sniper "MAYBE" balanced. But he is still extremely un-fun to fight. Seeing people right it off as the Funny Skill issue kinda annoys me. Fun fact I stopped playing tf2 about a year ago and I haven't looked back much. The reason being bots. And getting killed by over skilled sniper mains and Kuni abusers. I rather fight Huntsman Snipers and normal/gun spy's

[@Nycoorias]

"It's not the way I LIKE TO PLAY" This is pretty much my biggest issue with your show and server. It feels less and less like there is a legit issiu with an items design and more like you're complaining that an item has a plat style that you SUBJECTIVE dislike. Maybe you could make it more fun by adding a speed boost to the 10th one.

[@mongoose6965]

i mean yeah, obviously the changes he makes are based on his opinions. thats how people tend to work, they have opinipns that you agree or disagree with

[@Nycoorias]

Never mind. I thought this was bad weapon academy.

[@ShakerSilver]

The penetration gimmick, while niche, is such a fun concept that it's a shame it was made even more niche with how painfully slow the rifle wishes you to play.

[@fojisan2398]

Sign my petition to give Sniper a Quake Railgun

[@-RandomStranger-]

I mean, penetration on a sniper rifle is pretty op

[@ShakerSilver]

@@-RandomStranger- not as powerful as one might assume, as the sniper is rarely able to make the opportunities occur on his own

[@-RandomStranger-]

@@ShakerSilver Well, if it was always active, I'm sure it would be extremely useful

[@supermudkipz]

I feel like a lot of the Sniper Rifles are so samey for 2 reasons. A. Sniper as a class is so flat and boring while also being so oppressive that making interesting unlocks is tricky. B. Valve seemingly has this really odd disposition that every Sniper Rifle has to do at least 450 damage on a full charged headshot. It really suffocates what the unlock can do other than just some dumbass gimmick related to the charge.

[@-RandomStranger-]

Sniper rifles don't seem very similar to me, it's only the hitmans heatmaker and bazaar bargain that do, but aside from that they're very different Or did you mean the playstyle?

[@supermudkipz]

@@-RandomStranger- yeah i mean the playstyle, and also they all basically revolve around a charge gimmick. The only one that really tries to break the mold on this is the Sleeper and, well the Sleeper is garbage. It’s similar to Heavy where all of Heavy’s Miniguns do the same thing just with different numbers

[@-RandomStranger-]

@@supermudkipz Like I said on another comment, Fish said that machina's extra charge is only good for leaving big classes at low health and make them easy to finish off, but the sleeper does the exact same thing also for heavy he has a similar problem as snipers, his playstyle is quite simple, you just walk around and shoot at people (although some heavy mains say you shouldn't act like a giant target and stand in the middle of the map, acting like you're invincible) and solarlight himself said heavy's gameplay isn't too interesting

[@TeslaX106]

5:00 Fish you forgot the 4th heavy-related niche case: s fully overhealed heavy with the Dahlokas bar active.

[@fishstickonastick-gaming]

Dalokohs Bar doesn't increase Heavy's max overheal. In fact the Dalokohs Bar can take away one of the Machina's guaranteed kills by boosting a FoS Heavy above 300 health.

[@TeslaX106]

@@fishstickonastick-gaming I know it doesn't increase max overheal, the base overheal of 150 plus 350 from the dahlokas bar puts heavy at 500 hp, enough to survive a charged headshot from anything besides the machina.

[@kylepangilinan9075]

@@TeslaX106 The Dahlokas does not change Heavy's overheal; even with 350 HP base health, you will still only get overhealed to 450 max.

[@themilkman6969]

i don’t like any of the viable sniper rifles, it feels cheap to just be able to one shot literally almost any class from across the map. now the sydney sleeper, that’s light class only, and it’s good for team support, and the huntsman is bad at anything past mid range. feels way more balanced.

[@depsydawn9206]

I wonder what would happened to Sniper if his base health is lowered to 100 instead if 125. This I think would make him more of a Glass Cannon like Spy but still retains his capabilities, but makes it so that he is easier to overrun if other classes gets to him, like a Spy would if caught out. My reasonings would be that Spy need the 125 base hp to get away in the enemy lines or make his way back to friendly lines, but Sniper, is often difficult to topple from a position since he's so far behind friendly lines and can easily regain health anyways. A Spy is more at risk if they fail compared to a Sniper in most scenario. With lower base health, Sniper has that same risk like Spy if caught out. And if that happened, I would have it that Huntsman have 25+ health on wearer stats to have him back to the proper light class and not to be instantly gibbed by a single pipe lmao.

[@ChizuruMinamoto]

My main issue with the Machina is the tracer. Not because it gives away my position, but because the tracer clearly hits players but the hit reg said no, which makes it feel like it is somehow worse than stock on hit reg. Otherwise I view it as a mostly useless sidegrade to stock. It is better to use the Bazaar Bargain for the simple fact it has no downsides if you're not charging your shots, which you don't need to do most of the time anyway.

[@callumjones9664]

i feel like something else to point out, at 4:27 you potentially could've just picked the med hiding behind the cart but ended up trying to go for a full charge shot again to what i assume, hit both med and heavy with a single shot but before the shot could be made, the med jumped away, the machina makes you hold off from taking the shot for a potential collat and can cost you important picks 9 times out of 10

[@calebsorrell6235]

If you like killing groups of people with the Machina but don’t want to live, try caber knight!

[@mrdrphdexpert]

Even in deus ex, this sniper rifle alerts everyone to your position so i can see the design on this gun especially. I guess they wanted to keep the "immersive sim" element in the machina, but then there is the diamondback tho so... but at least we didnt get the gep gun in tf2

[@Shifter5555]

The fact this one alerts people to your position is honestly the biggest non-mechanical positive to the weapon. People are either afraid to peek or you watch them overextend right into a sentry. But then this is why sniper is not exactly healthy for the game.

[@dojo45789]

The biggest tradgedy of the machina is as the most boring rifle in the game it has the coolest reskin

[@Nerty1458]

Mr fish can you make a bad weapon academy on the electric smoke from titanfall 2 pls

[@Error_Detected404]

This is a really stupid idea, but I think it'd be kinda funny if the Machina got reworked to function similarly to the Snipewriter from Splatoon. Pretty much you charge up a shot, but upon a full charge instead of a single 450 damage shot, you get 5 weaker shots that you can fire one after another for slightly less damage. Not sure how to go about balancing, but it'd be way more interesting

[@-RandomStranger-]

How about headshot kills give back 25% of your charge, but taking damage while scoped removes parts of your charge and you have a slightly slower charge speed

[@frosttoros663]

Let's force him to play only sniper with machina for entire month after that video

[@BLS31]

Do you think the classic would be less of a joke if it had faster scoped-in movement, and maybe ony mini crits on non fully charged headshots?

[@Vashkella1937]

Welcome to boring weapon boarding school

[@greennmiles4517]

Sniper's whole shtick is sticking to the backlines, letting his team do all the work and getting easy kills. As such, the machina is a pure upgrade, as you're never hipshotting anyways and the extra damage makes quickscopes even easier since 175 health classes take a whopping 1 headshot instead of 1 headshot and a bodyshot. The downside just, does not matter for most players. Snipers are choke point wh*res, so you're usually gonna know where they are anyways. If you're trying to be sneaky, deathcams and corpses give you away anyways so it's not a big deal. As a sniper, the entire enemy team could know where you are and you'd still be viable because you can just instakill people and run away / headshot / jarate-bushwacka people. Sniper is already a lazy class that promotes hitbox cheese, sightline abuses and slow, ridiculously safe gameplay. He does not need pure upgrades to his kit, he needs a serious nerf or completr redesign to make him as engaging as any other class.

[@greennmiles4517]

Nevermind about the 175 headshot, that was wrong.

[@rockowlgamer631]

At least with the machina I can repsect a person using it cause they have the patience to charge the whole way instead of quick scoping. I mean the charge mechanic barely comes into play when using stock cause most snipers would rather quick scope over having to wait a full second just to drop a heavy.

[@Arandonmaniac-2401]

Waiting for the cloak and dagger episode part11

[@bbarbiter]

I really am not a fan of the machina’s stats, but the super star shooter is just way too cool to not use.

[@privatepessleneck]

with all the snipers being so similar, i almost wish sniper had more unique ranged weapons, like a crossbow akin to the half life 1 version would be kind of cool.

[@Ethaniel1999]

The Machina is pretty good for when the enemy team goes only heavy on the cart.

[@dave3895]

You forgot to mention that a fully charged machina headshot can kill a full 125 health spy with the dead ringer, the only exception being if they are overhealed

[@skulibaumgardner242]

Ok, so the kunai spy's knife says it was received as a gift on december 25 of 2020. Now, lets say that fsoas got this footage around the date of the upload of this video, lets say march 10 just for simplicity. There are 1172 days between dec 25 2020 and march 10 2024. dividing the spy's obscene strange value by 1172 reveals that he must have gotten an average of 2,756.91 kills a day since he recieved it to get up to a third of a million kills. what the fuck

[@fastbreak333]

Definitely upped it with a kill streak farm

[@RandomFurry07]

​@@fastbreak333or is stabby Oh wait IT IS STABBY

[@thehoovyinashellnut2645]

The answer to the Machina paradox is "I can't hit headshots"

[@John-merman]

but the sydney sleeper is better in that aspect

[@HazyConclusions]

All sniper rifles ahould have tracer rounds

[@RedLily97]

4:22 lmao the ed edd and eddy kevin bike horn sound effect on the double penatration.

[@TennyGG]

I think the machina could become an ambush weapon. Remove the laser dot so the enemies have no clue what ungodly sightline you've managed to wiggle yourself into so you can snag those collaterals much more often from unorthodox angles which most people wouldn't even believe was possible. I'd probably increase the time it takes to fully charge and remove it's ability to headshot. Lining up two heads is very hard afterall so why not make it the ultimate bodyshot machine where you have to think about where you take your sightline instead of just sitting down at the end of a corridor? Use cases will be limiting however with how choke pointy a lot of maps are. But I also imagine it would be very annoying to deal with an unpredictable sniper who only needs one shot to delete two or three. But goddamn it'll probably only happen a couple times a match with the need to find a place to hunker down and hardscope for an extended period before taking that shot, and ruining that sniper spot for the rest of the match after the tracer rings out. Secondary weapon or melee with some kind of movement buff may be required to fully flesh out this idea.

[@hubanimations]

I don't think the Machina is the best sniper rifle in the game, but I think it serves as a decent weapon for newer players that can't reliably hit headshots at a fast rate or play aggressively. It possibly serves as a crutch since it rewards hard scoping with extra damage that newer players will use to deal more damage. When placing this in the hands of new players, assume they can't reliably hit quickscope headshots and knowing TF2, it will be awhile before they can. If there was a way to improve this weapon, either replace the damage bonus with a faster charge, or give sniper a new secondary/melee that gives him a faster charge rate.

[@insertstolenusername5306]

9:00 is fucking golden

[@bar123k5]

Im pretty sure the 15% damage is there to make sure that you will be able to kill the second penetrated player, not to encourage body shots.

[@Cyperstudio]

I really hate the aim trails, not because it gives away my position, but because “what do you mean my shot DIDNT connect I literally saw the laser hit them!!!”

[@LucasSantos-si4nd]

9:05 context?

[@SimonIsYourBuddy]

I don't think I've ever got one collateral kill before in about 100 hours of sniper. If only I could hear the collat kill sound just once from my own kill... I would die a happy man.

[@SqwimpyTF]

I'm commenting before and after the video to see how my opinion changes or if it doesn't at all. Becauss right now I honestly love the machine, I think the head shot penetration gimmick is cool and is very useful when enemies are just stacked on the cart, the extra body shot damage allows you to finish off soldiers and demomen that have taken enough chip damage. Or you can shoot a soldier or demo in the body and then finish them off with your SMG. The downsides (especially the tracer) makes it so the sniper needs to ACTUALLY be aware of his position instead of sitting in a corner and farming kills. And the disabling of no-scope shots forces you to either use an SMG, or if you're confident in your quick-scope abilities or melee fighting you can sacrifce the SMG for a different secondary. (I wish this downside was just a damage penalty when no-scoping but it's really not too bad) And another thing is the sound of the machina is just soo powerful, that crack you hear when firing makes it sound like a rifle that could hurt instead of the pea-shooters like the other sniper rifles.

[@purplehaze2358]

This used to be my primary of choice for sniper (on the rare occasions I play it), and I think I've only ever gotten a handful of collats with this thing in the entire time I've played the game.

[@alex_zetsu]

I've gotten quite a number of headshots where I had non-lethal collerals. I'm sure the 15% chip damage helped. Sure I didn't get a multikill, but getting a headshot and heavily damaging a bunch of overhealed players is great. In fact I think for every multikill I got, I had 7 times where I got a headshot that injured other teammates.

[@waitingfortheequinnox]

The Machina in x10 is a very interesting case. Whereas stock is just better than it usually is, the Bazaar Bargain is literally unchanged and the Classic charges in half the time of stock (seriously, this makes it viable), the Machina deals over 1100 damage on a charged headshot. This is extremely relevant in x10 due to Dalokohs Bar Heavies (800 HP), Demoknights (~400 HP, which exceeds your bodyshot damage) and Backup soldiers (400 HP exactly). The only thing you can’t kill in one shot is a Kunai Spy fresh off of a kill.