[TF2] In Defense of the Loch-N-Load

[@fishstickonastick-gaming]

🔥 Start your Wanted: Dead adventure with 50% off - act NOW: bit.ly/WD-fishstickonastick

[@MrWortley8904]

Questions is it OK if u make a weapon about fan of war pls. go balance the weapon and defend the others

[@Forsakenruler]

Pls make bad weapon academy on stock fire axe

[@ShimmeringMizuko]

Videos like these, are made possible by viewers like you. So let me sell this game to you. (Mixed on steam btw. though very positive recently) Jokes aside, i used to use the Loch n Load all the time back when it was essentially the Direct Hit for Demoman. But with them taking away the damage, i went to stock and never looked back. I got pretty damn good with it as well, which was a bummer.

[@neoncallum]

lmao the ad sounded so sarcastic i was almost convinced it was a bit

[@neoncallum]

genuinely is this game actually real or is this just some super elaborate joke it feels so phoned in

[@matthewchase9980]

Ah yes, the weapon that allows you to roleplay an artillery cannon, but in all seriousness, good video fish

[@Cheese_man539]

Thats the quickie

[@jblazerndrowzy]

The Loch is more like role playing an anti-tank cannon

[@thechosenjuan8776]

lazypurple is mid honestly

[@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45]

AR-TI-LJERIJA BOSANAC SAM BEKRIJA AR-TI-LJERIJA BOSANAC SAM BEKRIJA EEEEEEEEEHEEEEE MOJA BOSNA PONOSNAAAAA

[@sO_RoNerY]

@@jblazerndrowzyyeah against builds. Not against enemies.

[@alexrexaros9837]

You know what's not defendable? The darn model! I don't see any third barrel, Valve! Where's my darn barrel!?

[@Confetti-Camouflage]

Fish didn't mention this in the video but it used to only hold 2 pipes until Smissmass 2014 when the max damage spread was capped to 124.

[@gingermcgingin4106]

It's in the stock grenade launcher, that's why it can't hold as many 'nades as it's model says it should (yes I know that still leaves one unaccounted for, maybe the Greymannn took it to make the robo-demo)

[@iskawhiskers]

i think remodelling the loch-n-load to have three triangle-arranged barrels would be fun but that'd fuck with its visual identity probably

[@-JohnDoe-]

While they're at it, they should take away 2 of the barrels from stock.

[@Slender_Man_186]

Uuuuh, lets just say that the bottom one is a tube like on the China Lake and leave it at that.

[@filthycasual6118]

Finally, we get to see Mr. Poops-his-Pants himself on the big screen. I'm glad he's finally got his first break, and I'm anxious to see where his career goes from here.

[@davidhong1934]

Meh, I think he'll always be number two

[@Tariousgaming]

His career is heading straight over to r/cuckold

[@10EightyPlays]

6 ft down.

[@filthycasual6118]

@@10EightyPlays down the toilet?

[@JackieJKENVtuber]

Thanks for the insight, Mr. Adachi

[@mr.tatortot6469]

Also, the fact that the only way it does damage is on a direct hit means that hearing that ding on a blind fire releases so much more dopamine than the other grenade launchers as you know you just smacked someone for a clean 100 damage.

[@tajmahas]

if you adjust the sound to how much damage is dealt(big damage=deeper sound, low damage = higher sound) you get the same effect

[@dziewiaty]

​@@tajmahasbig damage is not the reason of dopamine rush

[@Rat_Bastard_of_Blackwater]

Unless they were a demo with a shield or had a vac medic

[@Rat_Bastard_of_Blackwater]

​@@dziewiatyyeah, it's not the high number, it's the satisfaction of getting an even 100 because everyone has a little OCD in them

[@Halevolt]

I sure love when weapons are supposed to be situational or a sidegrade instead of a straight upgrade to the stock weapon.

[@mrstudent9125]

Do you hate Sandwich, Crossbow and Iron Bomber?

[@yourface2464]

​@@mrstudent9125sandwich isnt an upgrade Other two yee, yes we do

[@KamiRuku]

Iron bomber isn't a straight upgrade...

[@Halevolt]

@@mrstudent9125 Sandvich is more of a defensive tool in Heavy's arsenal because people in defense get punished by the long respawn time after dying, and Heavy, being the defense class that he is listed as, keeping himself and others alive is more valuable than anything. The Iron Bomber almost feels like a Grenade Launcher reskin with some minuscule red texts to make it different from stock. The Crusader's Crossbow, although I have called it overpowered before, I realized I was wrong about it, as it wasn't that powerful as I thought it was, however, it floats between overpowered and good territory, and it isn't completely balanced either. Is not that the syringe guns are useless, they're far from the worst weapons in the game, but then again, why wouldn't you use a weapon that heals by a lot and does pretty good damage with an extended range and passive reload, with absolutely zero downside? I actually prefer syringe guns over the crossbow.

[@WeeabooPocky]

iron bomber??? dude, valve fixed his huge hit box a long ago.

[@TheGhostThatWas]

The Loch did only have two shots in the clip when it did have the damage buff though. Forgot to explain that bit

[@MoustachioFurioso83]

It did have three shots in the clip AND the damage buff for some time after the removal of random damage spread though. But yeah, conceptually it would have made more sense to keep the extra damage and revert the clip size to the original two than what was done.

[@Confetti-Camouflage]

​@@MoustachioFurioso83The Three clip size was done on the same update to cap the max damage spread on 'nades to 124, so there was no one shot during that time. Fish still should have mentioned the clip size change though.

[@XC11301991]

Yea since the beginning of Fish's argument here I was wondering about how long has Fish been playing since he forgot to mention the actual major change to the Loch n Load. The 2014 update gave the Loch n Load 3 nades after it was 2 nade only for 4 years, after SPUF argued for so long that it needed some sort of buff like this. The 2015 change to remove the variance was overall just a consistency buff for all Grenade Launchers, but the 2014 changes already removed the one shot mechanic on light classes.

[@ethbeatthem4836]

None of the grenade launcher or stickies launcher are bad weapon, some just under used.

[@bunkerbuster4266]

Or some are too strong.

[@UNALLOYEDSLOP]

People always talk about Engineer having only 1 bad weapon, but Demo also has 1 bad weapon as well, the Caber

[@enderchau954]

​@@anon-y8wexcept for based jumper

[@danielbedrossian5986]

None are bad, sadly all demo weapons over shadowed by the sticky spams spammable detonation! Seriously, the quicky luncher should be the spammer type, yet it hase no uses! And this all could be fixed just by the stock sticky luncher getting a limit for the arming, after the fomer arming!

[@k90v85]

​@@anon-y8wmay i introduce you to boots and quickiebomb? its honestly actually viable

[@johnnodwarf1201]

A great offensive weapon sometimes and good to inconvenience engineers, then you remember why rollers are great when you just need some spam

[@robert9016]

The Loch n Load is so much fun as a challenge though. I’ve been pretty much exclusively using it the past few months, and I started to use it, I REALLY noticed how much I typically relied on rollers to cheese the other team. Also, combined with the Quickie, it’s a good lesson in ammo management

[@getaround1276]

@robert9016 loch and quickie have been my go to for when there's an oppressive sniper at least since blue moon because I despise playing as sniper and there's always 4 other spies and the effective of spy is inversely correlated to the number of them, it's long range, fast, and deals good damage, you can even set up a far away quickie trap and then chase the sniper with your pills!

[@headcrab4]

Sometimes you need precision, sometimes you need a lob slob

[@doggydude2668]

i like your scp 079 pfp 😊 very based in my opinion

[@shaddysehly5040]

i mean we are talking demo here 20% damage to buildings might not be as good as 20% damage flat but its demoman of all the people to need an increase in damage to buildings he's the one whos gonna benefit most from it besides soldier

[@MrLeftTurn]

One of my favorite memories of using the loch n load was on Barnblitz last while I was on BLU. This Scout and I ran up to the upstairs locker room where we discovered a RED engie had built a nest. Without communicating or planning anything, the Scout drank a BONK and distracted the sentry and i immediately jumped in with the LnL and obliterated the nest. The engie was absolutely scared shitless, and that will always be one of my favorite TF2 moments.

[@lecommentar9851]

Scout really said "dw I gotchu bro"

[@mariustan9275]

You put the TEAM in Team Fortress 2

[@VexagonGD]

i feel bad for engineer, he just got his whole livelihood torn down

[@drenkrod9811]

As a Scout main, I use this more than I think, because nobody in casual seems to understand how to take out a sentry.

[@metagamer1341]

The mere thought of Scout with a Loch n' Load makes me want to shit my pants

[@naenae2350]

@@metagamer1341SHIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[@RandomFurry07]

Closest thing he gets is the Shortstop ​@@metagamer1341

[@cloudynguyen6527]

@@metagamer1341 Crit-a-cola Scout with Lock n' Load...

[@metagamer1341]

@@cloudynguyen6527 AAAA AAAAAAAAAAAA THE VOICES MAKE THEM STOP

[@_JustynkaPL]

10:52 I can't stop laughing at his ragdoll. Poor Soldier

[@hws-rl1cp]

Russo-Ukranian war footage

[@CrackHeadGaming1029]

@@hws-rl1cp What the fuck

[@thelastpheonix]

This is my favorite and pretty much the only grenade launcher I can use, because it's the only launcher that has an arc that my brain recognizes as the natural arc a grenade should have

[@CookTF2]

I will never get over this. The weapon explicitly had a design around being 2 barrel grenade launcher and valve just tossed that idea into the garbage and balanced it like it was numbers on a spreadsheet. Even to this day when weapon experts react to TF2 weapons they point this out first hand.

[@numbersstationsarchive194]

FSoaS himself made the weapon way better on his rebalance server. He gave it two shots, but massively increased the reload speed and made it reload both shells at the same time, similar to the Force'a'nature.

[@ironprince72]

this thing should def be a force a nature, soda popper type weapon. 20% damage increase, 15% faster firing speed, and 20% faster reload time at the expense of 2 grenades would be a fun weapon.

[@titicaca.]

@@numbersstationsarchive194 Less clip and increased reload is a contradictory design.

[@numbersstationsarchive194]

@@titicaca. No it isn't, and it's not just an increase in reload speed, but rather both shells are reloaded at once. It also has a massive increase in fire rate. I'll tell you what IS a contradictory design, a double-barrel grenade launcher firing more than two grenades at once. Go on his server and try it out for yourself, it's way more fun to play with than the stock Loch'n'load while still being reasonably balanced.

[@RushStudios101]

The stock grenade launcher also has a 4-pill clip but clearly has more than 4 barrels. Hope someone got fired for that blunder!

[@jasper_the_ghost]

Making up a fabricated anti-racist to strawman seems pretty Freudian to me…

[@Sillimant_]

It's just an excellent impersonation of a redditor

[@thatcooldudeisawesome876]

Fuck that’s the gayest thing I’ve ever read.

[@DrBepis-jo7qt]

I _swear_ that’s supposed to be Dr. Pointdexter from the New Vegas Permadeath series

[@godslayer9000]

gonna have to disagree with the hybrid knight point. I've been using the claymore recently and loch and load has been the best pick for me in every situation. The issue I face with hybrid knight is that during the downtime on your charge, long range classes can easily harass you and close range classes can dance around just outside sword range, which is where the loch and load shines by allowing you to deter/kill stuff in those longer ranges and make space for yourself by retreating and firing at anyone approaching you. The problems that were highlighted in the video require simple playstyle changes to overcome, which may or may not interfere with some people's idea of hybridknight, but it works perfectly for me.

[@Aibadenshi]

11:06 I think you miss the point that the weapon itself used to only have 2 shot. So when people mention reverse the damage back to the original +20% they also want it to also only have 2 shot because the gun only have 2 barrel and it bugging the hell out of most player why it have 3 shot on a 2 barrel rifle.

[@slyseal2091]

what that does that change about the damage falloff argument? You gonna argue that either you or the average player are gonna perform worse because obviously you hit hit all 3 of these long range shots all the time?

[@Aibadenshi]

​@@slyseal2091People prefer to have their 2 shot skill canon back and not junk direct hit. The fact it force you to be skillful at shooting it and not spam because it have 2 shot no roller and smaller blast radius is more enough. If it not enough add back the increase self damage it also used to have so close range suicide is more often.

[@slyseal2091]

@@Aibadenshi thats great, but the 2 shot skill cannon is also a one shot flail cannon and the fact you skipped over the experience of 4/9 classes is about all that needs to be said here.

[@Aibadenshi]

@@slyseal2091 Due to it only deal 120 and not more because random damage spread, you still need to hit 2 clean pipe for that kill tho and you only have 2 pipe.

[@Lykrast]

I love when the sidegrades twist the weapon's gameplay in a unique way that makes it better in some situations but worse in others like the Loch-n-load. I wish we'd get an update with more weapons, I miss new weapons :(

[@lugismansion2400]

before we get new weapons for other classes we need the Mythical Heavy Update which hasn't happened for 2259 days since this comment

[@mrstudent9125]

07:45 I drew myself as Chad and you as Soyjack. Therefore, I win.

[@joemommaoramma7090]

fish tries not to include 2 minutes of ad roll before the video starts challenge (impossible). Okay but fr tho whats the deal with your strawman redditor guy. that honestly felt like you were projecting there, and I'm not sure that it was a good thing.

[@yourface2464]

Gotta agree. Not sure why that strawman character exists here. Definitely doesn't help the video.

[@quentinholmes4333]

that awful reddit bit was straight out of a whiny 2016 anti sjw commentary video

[@MegaGrassman]

It's still crazy to me that people think the Loch-N-Load is a downgrade

[@Heroman3003]

The perception of the weapon by people who dont play projectile classes much is "more skill = more reward" weapon because of 'pipes dont roll' stat, similar to Direct Hit. Except, for Demoman, missing the pipe and hitting splash damage is basically not a real loss, unlike soldier. So people see it losing the main 'reward' for having good aim as the removal of weapon's general reason to exist.

[@vappyreon1176]

I'd say it could use a slightly faster reload or a fourth pipe, the lack of a 4th makes fighting heavies feel more like shooting a brick wall

[@taistealai5523]

I think the Loch and Load is a downgrade from Iron Bomber/Stock but it very much is a good weapon, Iron Bomber/Stock are A tier for me whilst LnL is a B+ or A- weapon

[@rootedapollo8908]

I actually really like the lock and load. Ever since I started maining hybrid knight I started using this. And it finally convinced me to use it over stock. I really like the lock and load. Especially since I almost single handedly use the quickiebomb launcher. That quicker detonation time really makes you feel like you are milliseconds away from death at all times.

[@yakobsoulstorm5187]

It's loch.

[@funkynothing7846]

8:09 who is this guy youre making up lmao

[@FatheredPuma81]

Wow you know a video is quality when your extension instantly skips you 2 minutes in and it acts like it's just starting.

[@Amarenamann]

I saw some mudcrabs by the water recently... I stay clear of them. Nasty creatures, but I hear their meat is rather tasty.

[@alienstar2088]

Demo mains: complaining about the Loch N Load nerf Me: You have two primary weapons, I don't wanna hear it

[@fifty-yt1kh]

Demo mains when a weapon doesn't reward them for spamming:😡😡😡

[@AndresinReal]

I always saw the Lock n' Load more as a Direct Hit for demo than a Direct Hit like weapon. You focus more in ditect hit than slpash damage, good for taking out sentries and pyros decent with airblast. The base is similar but everything else not so much. Now we need a granade launcher that shoots right in the center.

[@roblox_top93]

You some grammar

[@Brown95P]

@10:35 FishStickOnStick: Slow damage output / lack of pushing power / inhibited movement while aiming Meanwhile, a day earlier... SoundSmith: Kills in 0,2 seconds / infinite range / no counterplay outside of avoiding or countersniping Now I'm not saying the LnL needs to have the damage boost back, but the coincidence is not lost on me still.

[@fishstickonastick-gaming]

I had this video basically ready to go by the time that one came out, but I still found the coincidence very funny.

[@numbersstationsarchive194]

@@fishstickonastick-gaming Whenever I go back to your second ever video on the Brass Beast, and you mention you haven't yet covered the Sharpened Volcano Fragment and the Bison, well...

[@commonlymisconstrudeasgoliath]

the strawman was a strange choice in my eyes. I get why he's there, but believe the topic could have been covered more eloquently; not sure if there's a larger picture I'm unaware of with the racism quips

[@numbersstationsarchive194]

Fish is based, it's also a critique of woke culture (and Reddit in general).

[@CaptianKatsura]

Yeah, the racism quips is a really weird addition, since in my experience the venn diagram of "people who care about weapon balance in old shooters" and "people who post on reddit" is a circle consisting entirely of right-of-center people. So throwing in virtue signalling about racism is a weird choice, since those people should be indifferent towards racism.

[@saltedjules_]

​@@numbersstationsarchive194"woke culture" it is the year 2024

[@numbersstationsarchive194]

@@saltedjules_ Yeah, cry about it. YWNBAW

[@Kagawwy]

@@numbersstationsarchive194Based

[@MetalOrgE]

Here's a mildly interesting detail about the LnL: since the grenades only explode on another player or break when touching a surface, this weapon actually has the longest lasting grenades. This isn't important in short or medium ranges, but long range shots are completely possible with this gun for Demo (that isn't a sticky launcher). On 2Fort battlements, if you fire from your battlements to the other side, you'll actually notice the grenades detonate before they reach the other side completely, but the LnL will always make the distance without question. Incredibly situational detail, but it's part of the reason why I love this gun!

[@MoustachioFurioso83]

They don't have a longer fuse, it's just that their speed lets them cover more distance before exploding.

[@drucy.]

It doesn't have "longer lasting grenades", they detonate after the same duration. The extra projectile speed just makes them cover more ground over the same time, giving the LnL extra range as a result. That's why the LnL pills fly over the 2Fort gap when the stock's don't.

[@thezapman1936]

I think the comparison between the lochnload and the huntsman isn’t a fair comparison since the grenades are harder to hit consecutively than the huntsman due to the buggy registration and that it’s much easier to secure a kill on lighter classes with the huntsman due to having an smg which is much easier to spray and pray than hitting a second grenade. If the lochnload got buffed to deal universally 120 damage, most damage thresholds don’t change in comparison to other launchers barring a conch/backup soldier and some overhealed classes, which even then is balanced by the smaller clip size nerfing its overall damage

[@mightystu49]

Lampshading using the “my opposition is a cartoon dumb guy and I am smug and correct” doesn’t make it weaken your claims any less.

[@mrstudent9125]

Yeah, it's a dumb strawman

[@BotAccountLuna]

No

[@taklampan650]

With no random damage spread, they should revert it back to 20% extra damage to all sources. Only makes sense. It won't one-shot lightclasses. Still my second-favorite primary after loose cannon

[@Aussie_Axe]

9:20

[@mariustan9275]

He pointed it out that 120 damage is a bit over the top considering it's a chargeless huntsman bodyshot with no damage falloff and splash radius. Maybe 10 or 15% damage bonus is more reasonable with maybe a reload speed buff or a clip that reloads instantly.

[@AngelaG217]

Finally someone spoke about this thing in a positive light. I do agree it does need some changes. But is not unviable like some people say. Thank Fishstick

[@trainershade1937]

Oh that's funny, I don't think it needs any changes! Except maybe a new model...

[@drunkdrag0n]

The five changes I would make: Con - Clip size down from 3 to 2 Con - Reload time + 25% Pro - Grenades explode upon contact with surface Pro - This weapon fires both shots in the clip Pro - This weapon reloads its entire clip at once Basically, click once and fire both grenades in the barrels and then reload them at the same time.

[@trainershade1937]

@@drunkdrag0n Ah yes, perhaps one of the most insanely overpowered weapons the game could ever create.

[@thedrunkenoutlaw]

@@drunkdrag0nyou have hidden talent for game balance, keep it hidden 🔥

[@benjybrasington9508]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@drunkdrag0nproblems with this -It’s overall dps would be comparable if only slightly less than stock thanks to the double clip reload -Because it fires both shots it can quickly kill scouts (one of demos counters) -If grenades explode on impact of surface then it would need damage fall of otherwise it would be too powerful -Keep in mind if you equip this weapon YOU STILL HAVE STICKIES meaning you don’t actually lose much explosive dmg

[@papersonic9941]

Also, the Direct Hit is a harder weapon to use than stock, because Splash Damage is an important part of Soldier gameplay. Meanwhile, Demoman usually just used direct pipes anyway, so the old Lock&load was basically Easy Mode with extra damage.

[@mariustan9275]

Still compared to the stock and iron bomber losing rollers is pretty big considering the possible extra damage you get form them. Maybe just give the LnL a 10 or 15% damage buff.

[@manusiaorang2842]

​@@mariustan9275thats just lame

[@barsomians]

For me is the opposite. Stock projectile speed is soo slow that I can't hit shit.

[@quijassajiuq900]

Rollers and spam are incredibly important on Demo idk what you’re talking about.

[@Spracker333]

Uh, what the fuck was up with the anti-racist strawman? I don’t think I’ve ever encountered someone in TF2 who’s played the racism card around Demoman. It seemed very… Forced?

[@LucyTheBox]

The Loch 'n load is actually my go-to weapon for hybrid knight. For starters, I tend to use my grenade launcher most often when the enemies are out of charge range, which is a range where the loch 'n load starts to excel at. On top of this, Sentry Guns are the bane of a demoknight's existence, so having a primary that excels at taking out Sentry Guns, compliments the demoknight playstyle quite well.

[@VexagonGD]

Loch n load is a crutch for hybridknight to allow him to stomp sentries instead of play around them, try the Loose Cannon, it's more fun to use and has cool tech

[@Rain..._]

The cameo from Doctor Poindexter was amazing, the fishverse is getting cool

[@XC11301991]

Fish, not sure if this is showing how late you started playing at the time but since the beginning of your argument you're forgetting one of the major buffs that originally compensated removing the 1 shot mechanic, even before the weapon damage spread. The 2014 update gave the Loch n Load 3 nades after it was 2 nade only for 4 years, after SPUF argued for so long that it needed some sort of buff to be 3 nades. The 2015 change to remove the variance was overall just a consistency buff for all Grenade Launchers, but the 2014 changes already removed the one shot mechanic on light classes.

[@skyleite2065]

That bit with the Redditor engineer was super weird dude, wtf

[@saltedjules_]

"CRING SJW EPICALLY OWNED" in 2023

[@NeutralDrow]

Maybe Fish delved so deep into the research that he started _acting_ like it was 2015, too...? 😕

[@Admiral_Jezza]

Leftist detected

[@SputnikBeepBoop]

Critically unfunny bit, I don't watch this channel for the comedy but god damn that's horrendous. Then it ends with the guy's self insert character shooting the annoying strawman lmao, this is like an anti-SJW version of a Nostalgia Critic bit

[@crissis3263]

I mean, SJWs are weirdos, so it make sense. The funniest part is that I have seen Redditors make the same argument

[@farronblaze2952]

Outside of the Caber, Demo doesn't really have any bad weapons. (The base jumper is a shared weapon, it does not count)

[@chaselowell4567]

Once upon a time I was playing engie on defense. The enemy team had 3 demon men and all of them were using the loch n load. Let me frickin tell you that faster speed and extra damage against buildings makes a real big difference

[@Matheus-gc5fn]

i don't like the loch-n-load because that it doesn't roll nor stop, and most of the times i'll miss my pipes. this is why i use the iron bomber btw edit: also no i don't like the projectile speed bonus even if it gives demoman more range, ranged targets are especifically where i _won't_ hit and the "no roler" effect makes it even worse. Edit2: also you can't pipe jump as hibrid knight

[@ultimazilla9814]

relatable

[@Matheus-gc5fn]

@@ultimazilla9814 thanks!

[@Raelyn]

Yeeeah the last thing this weapon needs is defending. Who on earth is considering this thing bad? Feel like you've misred the vibe on this weapon. It's still really good and everybody knows it, to the point it's getting banned in 6s because it's basically better than Stock and Iron Bomber in a majority of situations. The extended range alone makes Demo a nightmare to deal with, your Medic is never safe from him. Walking into Process last, standing in the entrance and being able to hit a pill on a Med in panic room is fucking insane. Scouts, a class that naturally is quite great against Demo, shit themselves approaching a Demo with LnL, because he basically cannot miss thanks to the extra projectile speed. Losing 1 projectile out of 12 and rollers is an excellent trade to make for ludicrously extending your range and terrorizing one of your natural counters (and basically never missing a pill again). Never been a fan of this weapon. Always thought it was the low skill option for Demo's who don't know how to hit pills. The only good thing about it is that it can kill Sentries quicker, which is something that's always good for the health of the game. But it's kind of moot considering it's on Demo of all classes.

[@shiinakochiya6068]

I find the Loch-n-Load makes an interesting combination with the Persian Persuader. The Persuader's ammo limitation really encourages me to aim carefully instead of having the spam-happy mentality that I usually have towards the stock grenade launcher

[@USMailman.]

what's to defend? it's a really solid weapon that is very annoying sometimes due to the projectile speed.

[@Caterman_the_pomson_enjoyer]

Fun fact that is actually my personal opinion: heavy isn't fat, he's a big guy with wide shoulders but ingame he hasn't got any visible mass in his belly

[@VexagonGD]

probably right, heavy is really strong because he can do as much damage with his bare hands as someone using an axe, plus he can easily carry around his extremely heavy minigun

[@Caterman_the_pomson_enjoyer]

@@VexagonGD Which also seems to be supposed to be from a fixed place like one of those military cargo planes since it has some hanging cables from behind, and that has to be a plus to his strength if it's supposed to sit on a fixed steel beam

[@Hengem]

12:49 That heavy felt that melee crit. Poor dude needed to grasp his face afterwards.

[@korhol2065]

People will say this is an aiming crutch while I’m here wondering what kind of weed they are smoking cause if it was I’d be doing way better as demoman You still need skill to use thing, stop calling it a crutch

[@mrstudent9125]

It's a crutch because grenades are easier to hit but you have a smaller clip

[@TerraTuso]

Imma be real, the balance changes for this weapon make-a no sense. Like they reduced the damage by 5% and then they gave THE DOUBLE BARREL GRENADE LAUNCHER a 3rd grenade, and when people were complaining about its power instead of getting rid of the stat that made no sense they changed the damage buff

[@DangerGoose_0]

3:26 caught me off guard lol

[@hughmann981]

Ah, seeing dr poindexter return is wonderful. I just hope he can act as cold as he did in NV

[@bunnygodofchaos574]

Great video! Idea I've had for a while, is giving the Loch a damage piercing. With 3 shots, it's heavily punishing, and the moment a shield, wrangler, or Vac comes into play, Demo just has no options of how to deal with this. Giving the Loch the ability to pierce resistances like the Vac and Wrangler doubles down on the whole idea of demo being this power damage output, but also into a heavily punishable class, where evading a single pill can be all you need to basically guarantee the win. There's more to it, and it's a fairly unique idea that works a lot better on a hide risk high reward weapon like the grenade launcher than it does on a squishy class with a decent personal defense weapon like a revolver.

[@Dryfloorsign]

y'know what. i always forget pipes has no falloff whatsoever. its so ingrained to my brain that i forgot how huge it was

[@Nero_studios]

I was really expecting him to be backstabed by an yer, then the spy miming him

[@SinisterPixel]

Can't believe I'm paying for KZbin premium but still got a video that started with a 2 minute ad

[@hatchmaster_5745]

This weapon is also good for the shouic 100 player server, because it helps demoman fill his new roll as "dedicated long range artillery class" much better due to the faster traveling speed

[@itzeer1251]

Loch 'n Load is actually crazy good on Hybrid Knight, the long range pipes make dealing with buildings a breeze, and the sword and shield help make up for the lack of rollers in close range. It's super fun.

[@dragonlord4898]

Promotion Skip Button: 1:57

[@rainwobrain]

The year is 2014 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@GameFreak64101]

I like Loch N Load even after it's nerf Pairing it with the Quickie Bomb Launcher is the ultimate fuck you to Engineers I fucking hate the Engineer class

[@Imirui]

9:53 I don’t believe that the grenades should be changed to one shot light classes again, I just want 120 damage pipes again. Also RDS isn’t _removed_ but you can still enable it with a console command. (tf_damage_disablespread 0) It changes ramp up and falloff to effectively create +/-15%. Crits are unaffected. Basically if you were 512 HU away, you could be seen as close as 435.2 HU (+15% because of ramp up) or as far as 588.8 HU away (-15% due to falloff) from your target. It can’t go below min and max falloff, so it’s not a random % between +/-15%. So, the min, max, and average were the same, but the actual values were random. RDS was also the reason why the Equalizer had its damage nerfed so often since it originally had a max of 162. It then was nerfed to a max of 113 (thank god, it can’t one shot any classes) and later had it lowered to 107. Why the last change? With RDS, you had a chance to deal up to 129, one shotting light classes at random. It had its final damage nerf to change it to 107, with a max in RDS of 123. It eventually lost the speed bonus leaving it to do acceptable damage with a slow speed at a health amount when you should be running away. At least you still can one shot heavies without overheal with a random crit. Good job Valve. Anyways I do want to see the damage bonus be reverted to 120% against everything without one shotting light classes. Also decrease the clip size to 2 shots because 3 instant full charge huntsman shots is a bit much. 2 is better.

[@xombiekilla]

Honestly, I like this weapon, the only thing you need to master is aiming with it, if your pills can hit, you'll deal twenty percent more damage then the standard grenade. So from 80 to 100 damage is pretty nice and it cuts through Engineer nests like a hot knife through butter. It is a tricky weapon as it's essentially Demoman's version of the Direct Hit.

[@Teixas666]

greandes deal 100 damage on direct hits regardless of range and launcher. so both stock and the loch should be doing 100 damage, the difference here is that against buildings the loch does 120 damage(allowing it to 2 shot lvl 3 buildings)

[@klingon401]

I named my loch n load “wait till I get you in a tight corridor!” And then the description “I’ll probably still miss” And when iron bomber hitboxes got fixed I switched to loch n load because stock felt off, I’d learnt to play with a broken iron bomber so that felt off, I can’t hit double donks, so the loch n load just sort of… fell into my lap? Like a cat choosing to sit in your lap, I now can’t move until it decides to get up and leave

[@purplehaze2358]

I'm sorry, but so many downsides in exchange for one upside that only matters for 1 of the 9 classes demoman can engage with in this game (a class that he already hard counters to begin with, and therefore, the upside is a redundancy, especially considering you'd be better off just using stickies on a building) and another upside that doesn't come into play nearly as often as its downsides do simply is not worth it.

[@johnnyrakugakichnotachyet5307]

I share the same oppinion of lazy purple "the 20 pipe speed """"""""buff""""""""" fries all the muscle memory in my brain, AND I DONT LIKE THAT"

[@jblazerndrowzy]

Honestly, they could just change the 20% damage bonus to buildings to a damage bonus towards everything Wouldn’t one shot light classes, but you’d definitely cripple them enough. It would give the Loch some extra use outside of annihilating buildings

[@krios7299]

I'd argue 10% or 15% damage bonus or at least remove the damage bonus and give us something else like faster switch speed or reload

[@mariustan9275]

Yeah I feel like 20% might be a bit much but maybe just 15% damage bonus vs everything and maybe a faster reload or a clip that reloads all at once.

[@afand6149]

I fucking love the Oneyplays reference, please oh please include some more in ur future videos

[@Freesorin837]

Despite the differences pointed out here, my primary use of the LnL is the same as the Direct Hit: taking out sentries before the engie has time to react. But I also find it so useful and fun against players due to the farther effective range and speed that enemies aren't prepared for.

[@rdyt0]

buff it to 4 shots to be more balanced. 3 shots are just a pain-in-the-behind to use.

[@sgas]

The small sentence mixing bits were very fun to watch!

[@stickbug09]

thanks for taking almost 2 whole minutes to actually get into the video

[@Morgan423Z]

@4:27 This clip feels like it encapsulates my TF2 luck in all my decisions. "Looks pretty clear, I'll just go ahead and take this health pack... and here comes my on-fire medic around the corner, fantastic."

[@luciencartervo5356]

Cool. I will still exclusively use the loose cannon

[@MochicoArtemis]

he's not trying to make anyone use it, he's just pointing out that the Loch'n'Load isn't as bad as people think

[@Indignation6]

Didnt it only have two pipes back then? 3 clips size makes it more forgiving when taking a 1 on 1 with other classes now.

[@adinrichter6034]

Also, the grenade launcher is normally played with directs as the main damage type, whereas rocket launcher is usually played with splash as the main damage type, so the Direct Hit makes sense for rewarding direct hits, whereas rewarding direct hits with the loch-n-load makes no sense as direct hits are already the primary damage type for demo.

[@williammin8340]

Exactly. Rollers are far more situational than rocket splash danage, so the removal of that is significantly less impactful than the direct hit's lack of splash damage. Ifvthe damage buff was universal, it would be in the realms of the diamondback: rewards the player for doing the exact same thing they are supposed to do.

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

This gun is insaly great at killing snipers fast, especially if they’re running away since the projectile speed accounts for that. I say snipers since anything with more health hitting 3 shots might be harder for you. It’s a good trade off for me

[@mr.slappii513]

I am a medic main, but when I play demo, I often use the loch n load because it's projectiles feel like the crossbow arrows. And also it feels really good getting directs as demo.

[@smallcat848]

i think it'd still be cool to have a 120 damage lock 'n load as long as it got nerfed back to 2 grenades. 3 grenades and 120 damage is still too much and doesn't leave it with much of a personality. But a 120 damage 2 shot grenade launcher would be cooler than what we have now. Letting it one shot light classes was never a good idea tho.

[@SinkkingTurrtle]

My only issue is the loch n load's projectile speed doesn't feel fast enough to snap your brain into a different projectile mode. Like the rocket, liberty launcher, and direct hit are all so distinctly different in speed that as soon as you equip it. Your brain shifts into direct hit mode. The loch n load is only different enough to kill your muscle memory but not quite enough to feel entirely different.

[@mrstudent9125]

I honestly think they should revert the damage bonus to be universal. It wouldn't one shot light classes anyway.

[@WolfyTheDark]

The Loch 'n' Load had two shots to begin with, wasn't three until Smissmas 2014 (with other nerfs until 2015's damage to buildings change). It had +20% damage and +25% self damage making it suicide to use it close range, meaning you had to pick your fights carefully and hit your shots at a range. Nitpick: The tumble IS visual, but tumble does NOT effect the Loch 'n' Load, making it better for sniping (as intended). They nerfed the explosive radius to make it more like the Direct Hit and this was definitely counteracted by the general explosive radius damage buff of 2015. Curiously: the weird damage ramp and explosive variance was able to 1-shot lighter classes at first with an indirect hit. This has been fixed to never do more than 124 now. Personally, I would prefer a Sticky Launcher nerf and the Loch be put back to where it was (more damage, two shots) but keep the small explosive radius, making it more preferable to play defensive and pick-based with Demo. (And a Sticky Launcher nerf making the Quickie-Bomber better for offense than the Sticky Bomber). For now it is just a slightly weaker Direct Hit. Direct Hit is my favorite and best balanced gun in the game, though, please don't let anything happen to it. Additionally: I can't wait for comments to pretend I'm the very straw-man joked about in the video. Edit: Also add back the +25% self damage, just completely make the Demoman forced to make space against enemies so he can't just face-tank and be an extra push class just because he's slightly overhealed.

[@zerovsgaming6729]

there is one change on the Loch n Load I want that gives it a small buff is changing out that one negative stat from the grenades from being destroyed when not hitting building and players to them actually explode on contact with any surface. the reduced explosion radius is still in effect so its not really a powerful buff damage wise, to me it just makes sense so the grenades don't feel like duds when they hit the ground. This change does also give Demoman another primary weapon with a good mobility option that is far better than the Iron Bomber and the Loose Cannon due to the fact these grenades on the LnL now explode on contact instead of roll, there could be a balance were the LnL grenades are duds when they hit the ground from a very short distance from Demo himself which negates the new possible Mobility option yet still keeping the damage from point blank when they do hit players and building, or another possible balance is where Demo takes more self damage so that there is risk when performing LnL grenade jumping though this also hurts Demo when in a point blank battle. Anyway that is my own though the LnL is fine as is, but this is just a though if there needs some slight tweaking that fundamentally makes sense from a weapon standpoint, but its TF2, barely anything makes sense and we love it. I want to know what your opinions on this idea of a change.

[@lasttheshotgunknight389]

I'm glad you pointed out the similarities to the Direct Hit aside from that old capability to one shot light classes, the one thing the Loch-n-Load is missing is the smaller splash radius and damage on a non direct hit instead of making the pipe just poof out of existence once it hits anything that's not an enemy directly, it's the only thing that would make any shot with the LnL not feel wasted if you don't hit a direct otherwise.

[@soceity5818]

7:40 what was the purpose of this bit it sucked

[@hughjanes4883]

I have a loch n load called "bow chicka wow wow", it is by far my favroite weapon i own

[@skelorbonor]

Next you're gonna do "in defense of the iron bomber"

[@insederec]

Being somebody that's only played way before and way after the loch n load came about I never would have compared it to the direct hit. They have similar stat changes but they play entirely different.

[@Chip10591]

What if it had the same thing as the direct hit, Mini-critting blast jumping players. Not a balance genius, but it sounds fun to swat soldiers out of the sky with this thing, and it does seem like this weapon was intended to be demo's version of the direct hit. All other stats would be unaffected of course.

[@emanwonkon2205]

I dont use the Loch-N-Load because i dont wanna be judged by Uncle Dane

[@Bebop-vb8vv]

”I heard maybe a billion people (give or take)” was the line that got me.

[@bungus5774]

Can’t wait for more Strawmann arguments in future videos

[@min3man636]

Talking about muscle memory, I had the same problem but in reverse. I had used grenaid launcher for awhile, swapted to the loch and load to fight engies, and loved it for it's range. I got used to the loch-n-load for so long that when mvm gifted me a grenade launcher I couldn't aim it for a long time.

[@timbuktuesday]

I’m a hybrid knight main, and one of my favorite load outs has recently been loch-n-load, tide turner, and a stock reskin, ususally pan or ham. It gives me a very fast paced play style. It’s more risky, but I can easily get rewarded for good aim and melee kills. I use it mostly as a joke load out, but it works really well

[@Shaosprojects]

I love using the Loch-n-Load exactly for the points brought up. Yeah you don’t have rollers but the gun has fast projectiles and no tumble meaning that the grenade will always land where it was aimed. The high level of precision this weapon has encourages the player to look for direct hits anyways. And given that grenades have no damage falloff, if you are good with your aim you will score 100 damage hits from incredibly far away. The damage boost to buildings is literally the cherry on the top as as mentioned before, the projectiles always land where they are aimed, and buildings don’t move. If you thought landing grenades at long distance was consistent with this thing, then buildings don’t stand a chance. The downsides synergize with the upsides. There are no rollers but with how accurate the gun is, you’re not exactly encouraged to go for rollers in the first place. The blast radius is small, but the gun shines in long range fights, instead of bunched up quarters where blast radius is more important. It still has less clip size, but since you’re using it from a distance, there’s more opportunities to reload. I think the gun is still incredibly solid to the point that I actually prefer it to stock.

[@szelski.]

Just because pub players dont use it dont mean its bad or needs a defense

[@susantownsend7771]

Finally someone understands I love the Lock and load I constantly use it with the quickie bomb launcher and often the pain train

[@zeroakira584]

I like the Lock'n Load and used the heck out of it since 2014 until I moved to stock and loose cannon. And I absolutely loved it. It may not be the equivalent of the Direct Hit but the speed alone improved my predicting skill for my projectiles.

[@kalin4452]

The weapon is good, the only problem is the damage boost to buildings. Why not make it universal?

[@Felix-ve9hs]

The 20% damage buff that equals to 120 damage to buildings at all ranges makes the loch-n-load a real sentry buster. A direct hit doesnt even come close to it, if you hit a level 3 sentry with all three grenades, its always toast (unless wrangeled)