[TF2] In Defense of the Pain Train

If a lawyer suddenly started speaking in defense of a board with a railroad spike and nails shoved through it, everyone would think he's insane.
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Donkey Kong Country 2 - Snakey Chantey

[@kayoh9364]

It's always fun to see someone thinking they were just going to takedown some backcapping scout and then meet them with a bazooka.

[@bruschetta7711]

RED team: We have a lvl3 sentry and nobody is in the vicinity of the kart and there's 5 seconds left Me with a pain train, sticky jumper, and a loch n load, single handedly taking the the point

[@flamingscar5263]

"hey scout can you run to E and kill that back capping scout" "yea su-" gets killed by the direct hit instantly

[@zanwrightmfwr756]

Engie: "Hey Scout, an enemy scout is backcapping" Scout: "Oh hell yea. We're doing th-" *dies to a sticky trap

[@benitoswagolini9650]

@@zanwrightmfwr756 didn't you see the bloody balls?

[@CorvoTanuar]

@@bruschetta7711 And then you got killed by Uganda, classic.

[@ThatGuyLachlan]

Want to be *The* offence Soldier? Pain train Battalion’s Backup Direct Hit The capping capabilities of a Scout, the building destruction of a Demoman, and the mobility of a Roamer. I have faced this load out as an engie multiple times before, I still have nightmares about it

[@privatetrolldier5640]

Nice load out man!

[@tw4tter]

maybe the gunboats instead of the backup, interchangeable

[@privatetrolldier5640]

@@tw4tter but of course it depends on the situation.

[@John-merman]

I was thinking of the same thing but instead of the direct hit it’s the beggars bazooka or stock since both of them can hit multiple buildings at once including the engineer

[@starmaker75]

Well given there so many battle engie running around with uncle Dane’s battle engie video,

[@thomaskolar90]

The actual downside of the pain train is that you need to remember to switch off of it when it's useless.

[@Blockhaj]

skill issue

[@tabula_rosa]

that is the actual reason nobody uses it. if you gave it an extra effect for defense (prevents capping in an AOE -- which everyone can already do so also make the paintrain make you unable to be contested by non-paintrainners) people would use it

[@-RandomStranger-]

​@@tabula_rosa being unable to contest against a paintrain would be a little overpowered and force other soldiers and demomen to use it too. And dont forget its your melee, meaning you can still use stuff like the batallions backup to safely cap a point, the gunboats to backcap the enemy, and maybe even the rocket jumper and shotgun for a buff scout, and a great backcap ability

[@mewmew8932]

@@Bobo-ox7fj they sure did

[@Timeward76]

The problem with talking about damage thresholds, is that it works in a vaccuum, but youre almost never at full health.

[@BryantVonMiller]

Love the pfp Timeward!

[@turmspitzewerk]

yeah like. who on earth is ever hitting full ramp up meatshots on every single fight ever? shotgun damage is SUPER variable thanks to pellet spread and extreme differences in rampup and falloff. at lot of the time when you use a shotgun you'll be hitting 40-60 damage shots here and there. just think about all the time you've escaped a fight with

[@Starweardo]

As a Demoknight submain, this is statement is super relevant.

[@davidbonney9841]

Agreed. Especially considering the two classes equipping this weapon are the two best known for self-damage through sticky/rocket jumping.

[@hoonterofhoonters6588]

No, bro. You don't understand. I always take exactly 90 damage from every shotgun blast without exception.

[@beanz6970]

Direct upgrade to stock on offense. Direct downgrade to stock on defense. Perfectly balanced

[@aVeryAngryMoth]

As all weapons should be

[@miimiiandco]

I wouldn't call it a direct upgrade, as bullet vulnerability is somewhat significant. Though, I guess it's a stock-Blutsauger situation.

[@theproblemmustbeinyourpant5910]

Only on offence payload, since cart heals will offset the damage vulnerability.

[@PoggusAmogus]

just like my balls

[@youknowwhoitis5279]

@@theproblemmustbeinyourpant5910 Based rin pfp

[@grfrjiglstan]

8:40 I'd like to mention that this is exactly one of those situations where the damage vulnerability caused you to die inches away from a health pack that would've saved you.

[@RichardDaveJames]

He was getting lasered by a heavy anyway, he'd probably survive 1 more bullet and die while getting even closer to the health pack lmao

[@notster7114]

@@RichardDaveJames heavy was on high ground, after picking up the health kit he wouldve lost line of sight and its not like he can chase him down either so no, he wouldve definitely survived

[@sonny4978]

No one gonna talk about how the pain train has a 10% damage vulnerability on WEARER. That means if it's equipped, like the bushwaka or the powerjack

[@nobleradical2158]

@@sonny4978 that’s because it’s upside is also on wearer

[@notster7114]

@@sonny4978 thats literally what the video is about bro

[@TheGhostThatWas]

i only wish the pain train had univerasal use; usable in all gamemodes and both teans. it could give a speed boost while carrying the intel. and for attack/defence, it could give some stat boost to red while standing on the objective. its just a bummer how often i have to unequip it

[@jacob5169]

I could see it having something where on defense it helps push offense's bars back. Like, standing on a captured point causes the other side's meter buildup to drain faster and standing next to an unoccupied cart causes it to move backwards slightly faster.

[@numbcrep]

I think a speed boost less than the escape plan but enough to make a difference but that might be a bit to powerful

[@sebastianherrera6514]

Teans.

[@anonymouskaiju9101]

Maybe standing near a cart on defense could speed up the time it takes to start rolling back and on attack defend you can reduce the capture rate on the point more quickly if they failed to take it

[@Pacca64]

On defense it could increase the range you have to block the capture. Being able to stop capture from twice as far away would help you defend without getting dangerously close, especially with the explosives demo and soldier use. Would work in both attack defend and payload.

[@BeamtheCat]

Can’t wait to see the pain train in game for a month

[@elgatochurro]

I use it on demo all the time

[@5JSX5]

Can't wait to equip it on demo, unequip it when I'm not on BLU anymore and then forget it exists

[@peika8324]

As the seventh heavy enjoyer in the world, this bring smile to my face

[@Hell_O7]

What happened after a month?

[@5JSX5]

@@Hell_O7 nothing, nobody knows this weapon exists lmao

[@IttarraOda]

"I can reflect" *Proceeds to lose every engagement*. Great video btw Fish, I was always curious why PT was always such a non pick cause it really turns class roles on their head mostly. Also do not forget that in Medieval mode this is just a straight upgrade across the board because there's no bullets to worry about.

[@Eye_Of_Odin978]

@@Spyachungus Yeah but those weapons are burst damage anyways, so the downside wouldn't really matter either way. If you get headshotted by a Huntsman, you're dead. Doesn't really matter what you had on you.

[@thomaskolar90]

except that on defense, it's both a straight upgrade and a straight downgrade, making it maybe tf2's only straight sidegrade that isn't just a reskin :D

[@lukeperkins9013]

​@@thomaskolar90 Third Degree? Idk

[@TaRAAASHBAGS]

My hatred of random crits will always be the lesser of two evils compared to Soytopia servers.

[@TheKeppler22]

"Straight upgrade" except it's literally useless on DemoKnight (who has another 5 'straight upgrades' in terms of swords and Soldier who's just plain BAD in medieval mode and you're just better off using a Scout for x2 cap rate or the Equalizer/Disciplinary action is just better ) Even the Half Zatoichi is better for Soldier in Medieval Mode

[@evangelos4346]

"You're just using the most crutch loadouts" Ah yes, because The DIRECT HIT of all weapons is a crutch

[@Looona_fan]

Fish be like: "This weapon is a crutch." Then it turns out to be one of the most balanced weapons in the game.

[@evangelos4346]

@@Looona_fan Was referring to the comment he got in the video

[@Looona_fan]

@@evangelos4346 Oh

[@Not_interestEd-]

Casual. Just aim lol.

[@twobladedswordsandmauls2120]

​@@Looona_fan A crutch can be balanced. Being overpowered isn't what makes an item a crutch. An item is a crutch when it's designed to make a skill based technique easier to perform at the cost of overall effectiveness.

[@BlinchixOfRivia]

Never underestimate a pain train user, because YOU CANT STOP THE TRAIN FROM COMING THROUGH

[@ToonLinkHox]

Like a steam locomotive, yeah?

[@BlinchixOfRivia]

I'm burning hot Like a steam locomotive, yeah

[@Bazinguh]

CANT STOP THE PAIN TRAIN BABY

[@niaford690]

SUPLEX THE TRAAAAAAIN

[@themphantom9138]

CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUKA!

[@PeacefulRises]

You either learn the ways of the Pain Train or you ride it. Wait... is that what the spike is for? *My lawyers have advised me not to finish this comment*

[@TheSpectator9]

yes

[@Mr.Taco1111]

Sounding in team fortress 2 has always seemed like a strange case to me

[@tbone2416]

@@Mr.Taco1111 One one hand if you like the way it feels but don't like the way it looks,its nice to have an option to change it.

[@RiOSquINTos]

💀

[@AgentArabian]

Cursed chat go brr

[@stag1739]

I’ve been hearing people singing the praises of the pain train for quite a while, so it’s nice to finally see a high quality, in-depth guide, and overview of the weapon

[@Satan_The_Mastermind]

Yea its a good weapon, its just that people use it poorly, same with the scottish resistance!

[@blu3796]

The Pain Train will always have a special place in my heart thanks to a single game I had years ago where the match lasted too long and ended in a draw, so it turned into a melee-only team deathmatch to decide who wins. By the end it was just me, a lone Soldier carrying a board with a nail on the BLU Team VS an Engineer, a Spy, a Scout, and a Medic on the RED Team. Some sick dodges and many missed swings later, I was victorious, the last swing being a crit that obliterated the Spy as he attempted to trickstab me. Felt just like the Mayor of Train Town.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

you took em down to the pain train station in train town.......*drunken Scottish gibberish*

[@brazenduke8164]

I feel like another point for the pain train is not only does it only work best on offense, but only if you’re playing with your team. If you’re playing as a roamer or trying to back cap, the bullet vulnerability means a lot more. With your mobility options taking away from your hp, and no medics or cart to keep you topped off, those burst damage options can become deadly a lot sooner.

[@duncanchillake8024]

Well, you could always sacrifice one of your weapons for mobility, rocket jumper as soldier is immensely punishing, sticky jumper as demo will make you fly across the map in a single jump and you will still have a primary weapon + close range self defense, or trimp with the tide turner if you are solarlight

[@Duothimir]

A whole 9 HP sooner, max.

[@bruschetta7711]

i can say it only matters when you don't destroy a sentry fast enough or when the Heavy is looking up, which almost never happens besides if one intends to use the pain train to make full use of that cap speed they commit, so sticky jumper instead of stock and direct hit/loch n load to eadily deal with any type of sentry, and they know they are going to die, but the cap speed is enough for them to cap before that happens in short the pain train is the most valuable weapon if you intend to clutch the point, it's always worth switching to if the kart is very close to the point, and if you won without expecting it it's because some brave soul kept jumpin on that kart while some others were too busy getting their pick sometimed people forget there is an objective even in servers like uncletopia, which triggers me more often than i would like to say, it's like they completely forget that all classes are able to cap or push the kart and believe they can't help because an engi has to care of his buildings or a medic needs to wait for someone to heal

[@ammi5311]

@@Duothimir wrong that's what happen if you don't play the game but spelling out number . i can also say you take 5 damage x N (5x30) ,since 5.5 will count as 6 by tf2 it end up 180(6x30) , A WHOLE 30HP = dead demo . don't forget overheal/heal/1vN/range/long period of time (capping). the truth is when other edge out an hard fought fight with 10/20 HP you don't , you are either fighting a noob can't even lay a finger on you or you get stomp so hard you die anyway .

[@RichardDaveJames]

Going on a backcap is a huge suicide mission nonetheless, and it's mostly soldiers and demos that jump back to the point to protect it from being backcapped (speaking from experience) and the bullet vulnerabilty ends up not even coming to play, and capping the point 40% faster while getting 10% more damage is a more than worthy tradeoff (since backcapping is almost a suicide mission, 40% faster capping might be the only thing that actually gets you the point). I've saved some lobbies by acknowledging and doing exactly this, so yeah. Pain train good

[@edfreak9001]

That little bit at the very end amuses me so much I love those moments of "wait I know we're on opposite teams but how did YOU lose that what the hell"

[@plastiktuten3866]

it was a perfect homage to Soundsmith I agree

[@StickMaster500]

It's a shame that one downside of taking slightly more damage from bullets kill the fun of people using it. Tried it earlier and had a blast playing with it!

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

havent seen you in a while.

[@vivelespatat2670]

I wonder how people can have a blast using a weapon that doesn't change how you play the class you're on, you just capture the point slightly faster and die to bulletq slightly faster.

[@frostbite6431]

@@vivelespatat2670 I wonder how people forget everyone has fun in different ways than one another

[@Artician]

​@@vivelespatat2670So basically Heavy in a nutshell

[@Ilikewater-andice]

I hope that CP joke is gonna age well

[@painfulguy7745]

😢

[@Anonymous-cn9ow]

that kid won't tho

[@masterplasma5644]

Tell me pls

[@zanwrightmfwr756]

@@masterplasma5644 the reply above you already told everything you need to know son.

[@masterplasma5644]

@@zanwrightmfwr756 ???

[@CaptianKatsura]

I've been running the Pain Train on my Offensive Demoman loadout for years, for exactly the reasons you said: it's the only real option outside of Stock.

[@r.ndomperson]

clearly the Scottish Handshake is on top

[@Cthulhunoms]

The best part about the Liberty Launcher is that you still have fun with it, besides the damage decrease. It definitely keeps pyros on their toes.

[@FiereTheCatBoy]

It's also good as an alternate trolldier primary. It does less damage meaning less self damage with extra push force for further rocket jumps, while still having the emergency capability. The extra ammo helps too. You do have to heal, but that can be done easily if you have a medic or are retreating to get more ammo. Just make sure to watch your health or you will die rocket jumping.

[@racheltoothaker3259]

I honestly don’t think the liberty launcher is bad

[@dkoda840]

@@racheltoothaker3259It is factually, I mean you can enjoy it but there’s no situation it’s better than any other rocket launcher except for against the rocket jumper in damage.

[@lucdaniel1020]

9:51 dont we just all love the tf2 community? Truly some of the best people in the whole wordl

[@lucdaniel1020]

@@wilymuppet8941 Ehm I wasn’t talking about that, check the chat

[@Hedgpig]

When I tried the Pain Train out I thought the 10% would be too little to matter, but I ended up definitely noticing it, dying just that crucial little bit earlier than my gamer instincts told me I should. I think damage thresholds don't matter with bullet damage because bullets are the games filler damage; tons of classes have it and use it for reliable hitscan spam, meaning you're always taking it in dribs and drabs, and that 10% ends up mattering.

[@dirtmaster2290]

"God endorces the Pain-Train only" -CasualTF2

[@coffee0093]

I wish the pyro could use it too, funnily enough he's the class it was originally designed for

[@ALouisae]

14:01 i just went through so many emotions at once

[@z1u512]

We will never get another series like that... sooner or later this will happen to the how it feels series... if only valve updates the game....

[@ALouisae]

@@z1u512 what

[@turkishjanitor3666]

@@z1u512 thats great actually, stereotypes series overall aged poorly from my perspective

[@TheNorfAndOnly]

@@turkishjanitor3666 And from SoundSmith’s, too

[@Roebloz]

I love using the Pain Train with the Sticky Jumper to jump on the point in Koth and destroy everyone with the Iron Bomber.

[@fastrockproductions9788]

I knew that this video was in the works for several weeks via the community posts. So I started to use the Pain train in various fashions. Pain train Knight was something that was originally cursed but I think started to gravitate towards it after I realized that while I might not be contributing to the amount of total kills my team has the added bulk of being a Demo Knight allowed me to survive defensive pushes by the enemy team and continue to push the cart faster than if I was stock. The goal of offense on payload is to get the cart to the end, if a weapon helps with that then why not run it if you have the ability to make a difference in that. I feel like more supportive roles in tf2 are overlooked by most players as it's not as fun to be passive. (Every team can use a medic, yet most people even when bottom scoring don't even consider switching to it) While the pain train is niche it does that niche well

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

I love being one of the guys who will try to help the team in a _TEAM_-based game.

[@FiereTheCatBoy]

We don't need 4 gibus spies on competitive 5cp can at least 3 of you switch of spy please I don't want to pocket the sol- GOD DAMMIT THE SOLDIER WENT GIBUS SPY

[@Madaseter]

Nobody can stop the pain train baby!

[@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo]

It’s an objective stick.

[@ha2kon539]

While it doesn't directly cross damage thresholds on shotguns, shotguns rarely do max damage (due to needing to be extremely close). The extra damage you take let's the enemy kill you at longer range or if random bullet spread made some of their pellets miss. I do generally agree that pain train is better then most people think

[@Pixelflame5826]

One issue I could see is that if you're on the objective, almost every member of the opposing team in the area is going to be targetting you. Damage numbers don't mean much of anything when you're being shot by a heavy, scout, and multiple others at once.

[@Spahki]

Payload? Control points? Map Objectives? What even are those? I only understand senseless violence

[@rorbee]

Pain train having guaranteed mini-crits while defending an objective (caps, cart, even against intelligence suitcase carriers why not) would be a fun addition to at least complement using it on defense in the non-ctf modes it is designed for. Would allow for some stylish explosive jump into mini-crit pain train landing defends too

[@BreadTeleporter002]

dude hit me back to reality with that one single word, Stereotype.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

Always felt this about the pain train, glad to see someone do a proper analysis of it!

[@Nitrome333]

one of my favorite "subclasses" that i believe ive come up with is the demokart. its just demoknight but you use the pain train and you completely ignore everything except the cart. its especially fun if you yell at people for capping the cart with out you and telling people not to push the cart because you got it. I have no idea if im the first one to come up with this but i havent seen anyone else do something similar.

[@RdTrler]

"The point is the point" is the problem with the Pain Train. It runs contrary to most players' goals. When a game ends on Casual servers, there's a 3 minute downtime until the next match starts. That's a minute of voting on a map and loading the map, a minute of the server populating, and a minute of setup time. That's bullshit. People don't wanna wait 3 minutes, and they don't wanna hurry to those 3 minutes. If people did, they'd equip the Pain Train.

[@knuxenglish]

If you have played Well then you may have gotten some *pain* caused by a *train*

[@sevrengrey3689]

12:23 that poor spy lol.

[@jaimelkor8054]

The only problem I have with the pain train is that when I rocket jump or sticky jump I tend to take a lot of damage and then proceed to somehow fly into a heavy that randomly has perfect tracking and is always revved up.

[@dkoda840]

The pain train made no difference in the situation tho you’d be dead regardlesslol

[@mrstudent9125]

You'd die either way

[@systemisdead]

>being akrei >playing sniper >getting mad at loch n load and quickiebomb >changes class >playing pyro >getting mad at direct hit >says he can reflect >he couldn't >gets mad again >"I just" - "like kids" (???) >calls cringe >states he has women >couldn't reflect a rocket again >refuses to elaborate further

[@turkishjanitor3666]

I was reading the things he and Fish were saying in chat while doing impressions of Milton Waddams and Vincent Price respectively. Try it out, it's fun.

[@LugborG]

Just a heads up, it should be +10% vulnerability in the graphic. Minus vulnerability is adding resistance to damage.

[@andresfgp13]

the pain train its like an umbrella, pretty useful when you need it, and useless when you dont, and makes you look like an idiot if you use it when it doesnt benefics you.

[@Doilem]

14:01 The soundsmith jingle lmfao

[@Nagasakevideo]

Having discussions about damage threshold often seems like a white room theory crafting thing to me. It's like, most fights in TF2 aren't simple onesie ones at full health. Often you're fighting multiple guys at once who are like half fighting you, and you're all bunched together around the payload

[@bottleoftide4657]

damage thresholds come up often in competitive settings and when you know your opponent is at full health, its something ingrained in your head when you play classes for a certain amount of time. its important to know how many shots maximum it will take to end an enemy gamer

[@captainweekend5276]

"Onesie ones" do... do you mean 1v1s?

[@bruschetta7711]

they are very important because it's when it matters, he mentioned in the video that the times where the 10% vulnerabilty would mean something it's chip damage at medium range, because in other scenarios you are too far to die even with the pain train equipped or too close to survive even without a pain train, people just see a downside and easily become scared of it, but 10% is really nothing, especially for what you are supposed to do with the pain train

[@Nagasakevideo]

@@captainweekend5276 yes, I have an accent and I was using voice-to-text

[@captainweekend5276]

@@Nagasakevideo lol sorry, I thought it was a very odd malapropism.

[@jackdague1792]

Now that "In Defense Of" is a series that Fish is putting more effort in, I will wait patiently for In Defense Of the Dalokohs Bar.

[@bohnzo473]

The dalokohs sucks

[@turkishjanitor3666]

I second this

[@Artician]

Wish granted

[@ng855]

With this the enemy will contract tetanus and will freeze every now and then

[@Error_Detected404]

I'm gonna go ahead and buy a strange pain train now before they skyrocket in price after this video

[@privatepessleneck]

I think the pain train's problem is a combo of being only usable on select gamemodes, as mentioned. But also for not being an engaging item, like things from the market gardener, swords, even caber, do things when you hit people with them. but the pain train just sits in your pocket and does all the work. So its not really 'fun' So as you said its just really a weapon for when you want to win select gamemodes on select teams, otherwise you have to unequip it lest you be a little more fragile than normal.

[@TARINunit9]

I love the subtle "giving SoundSmith PTSD" sound effect you slipped in there

[@thepyroUwU]

the pain train is incredibly broken in medieval mode, due to the complete lack of bullets.

[@Paulunatr]

Yup, agreed with all of the above. Good vid. Just a quick addendum cuz it's important: If we're talking the context of competitive sixes, especially on 5CP, it's probably best NOT to equip the Pain Train if you're playing the role of Pocket Soldier. Your primary job in that position is protecting the Medic and keeping Ubercharge building, not capping points. The Escape Plan is a better tool for that job, as the penalty to healing keeps Ubercharge building at maximum for much longer, and lets you keep up with the Medic without breaking the heal beam, again maintaining that charge rate. The Pain Train is probably the best melee option for Roamer Soldier and Demo in this format- Roamers can use it to back-cap like a Scout in a pinch, and Demoman's job is pushing enemies back anyway, so you might as well cap faster while you're doing it.

[@zachlewis9751]

The pain train is a perfect example of a balanced weapon that isn’t actually balanced. Direct upgrade on offense, direct downgrade on defense, and completely useless all together because people play Team Deathmatch 2, not Team Fortress 2.

[@THE1vbLLover69_]

0:30 I was not expecting that amusing quip

[@thecoolertoadman]

My main takeaway here is that Demo needs more interesting melee weapons

[@2fortcow]

That aren’t demoknight oriented.

[@thecoolertoadman]

@@2fortcow Exactly! Plus Demomen might care more about missing out on that consistent 65 damage so it'll be easier to balance against the stock melee

[@livesinbin5830]

11:23 This right here is definitive proof that letting friendlies do their thing does not stop you from being able to play the game, it just means you chose not to stop them from playing the game in their way.

[@jammyantom5366]

Only issue I have with this is with the shotgun examples. Yes, there are no changes in break points with meatshots, but meatshots are only the ideal scenario for dealing damage. Most of the time you're going to only be landing Most of the pellets, which usually means you're going to be a couple dozen health short of a kill. The pain train's damage vulnerability requires less pellets to connect for a two shot, meaning you're going to be getting two shot more often

[@endruv_2287]

That stereotype music cue certainly gave me an emotion

[@cordogminner9077]

I think the real reason that the pain train is bad/underused is because the benefit does not increase your combat capabilities at all, and most people don't actually care about winning the match, they just want to kill the enemy deader

[@alo61997]

Just hearing that little jingle in the video was enough to make me nostalgic

[@LucasSantos-si4nd]

Time to fat scout as Solider and Demoman

[@asxp2433]

8:39 "which is not great for *close self-range defense* "

[@ShadowSkryba]

WE HAVE BEEN OVERLOOOKED FOR FAR TOO LONG. OUR TIME HAS COME.

[@corphoenix5579]

in defense of my pain train: its hales own that is all

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Pyro should have gotten this weapon years ago. :( (pain train was originally ment for pyro)

[@lu7ky]

While i agree with nearly everything you said, don't forget, tf2 is not a vacuum. You wont always be at full hp with only 1 target shooting at you. I am going to use the pain train more now though.

[@matsuringo24]

Easy balance fix: The Pain Train’s effects are only active in game modes its effect could work on and only on attack in the case of A/D. Otherwise it’s just reskinned stock. Don’t have to unequip it now unless you really want to use another weapon for a different effect.

[@GodOfGunz]

”Wait” ”What” ”How did you die” ”MAAAGIC” 😂

[@lunarfox581]

Pain train inflicts pain to anybody on defense, and any salty Uncletopia player that has the audacity to play 5CP!

[@splicer1158]

It’s basically a straight upgrade on offense medieval mode

[@ryanymous2138]

Pain Train is meta in Mediveal Mode if you're on the offensive trying to capture points!

[@Ascorbean]

So? No long range, no heads?, no skullcutter "random" crits?, no gain 50% base health on kill? and this is for one shitty downside 1+ capture rate on wearer that only better in cp, payload maps and for the memes? Not worth it

[@ryanymous2138]

@@Ascorbean Smartass, there are NO BULLETS NOR SYRINGES NOR FLARES in Mediveal Mode. It's what makes it MEDIVEAL MODE! The downside is non-existant for CHRIST'S sake!

[@spiceforspice3461]

@@Ascorbean So, no head?

[@Ascorbean]

@@ryanymous2138 did i said something about the downside?

[@Ascorbean]

@@spiceforspice3461 No heads?

[@Mixa_Lv]

The point-blank shotgun damage threshold example was pretty poor. Soldiers and Demos are usually missing some health due to blast jumping, and in mid-range, the damage vulnerability might turn a 4-shot kill into a 3-shot or 5-shot into a 4-shot. The easiest way to visualize the vulnerability is to turn it into effective health against bullets, which is 182hp for Soldier and 160hp for Demoman.

[@reagansido5823]

14:01 I just got PTSD flashbacks from just those few music notes.

[@Darkmage1293]

2:30 - can we drop the Pain Train conversation to just say what a solid Battalion Backup play that was? Love to see a teamworking Soldier.

[@edoardocaccia6226]

It might be a coincidence but that intro made me realise that the pain train has a "point" (spike) it because helps capture the control points. Knowing the devs that's probably intentional and to a non native speaker such as myself I find that mind-blowing

[@entertainmentseeker3962]

dude I love capturing CP!!

[@5JSX5]

I think people straight up forget about this weapon and/or don't care enough to equip it. I literally swore to always use my pain train on demo when playing on offense because I have a strange killstreak one and I never remember to actually do it. When I got this idea I went to my loadout screen and equipped it, switched back to the ham on the defense round, and never equipped the pain train since then. I just remembered that I ever made that promise as I started writing this comment.

[@App1eSniper]

My strange pain train is called the "Beam of Courage", because I fear no bullet vulnerability

[@whysocanadian1049]

16:54 "you prob play phlog detonator" I've got a feeling that the scorch shot is his favorite pyro weapon.

[@TheInfiniteAmo]

I have never played a single second of TF2, but these game design/meta analysis vids just do something for me.

[@TUWANN]

on damage thresholds: as we know soldier and demoman are at max health 100% of the time and every shotgun shot does max damage all the time

[@horsesteam9173]

I'm not completely sure, but a fully drawn huntsman shot should kill a pain train wielding demoman if it minicrits, as damage vulnerabilities stack with minicrits and the huntsman's 162 bullet damage (it uses bullet damage) would go to 178

[@Pain_train_wielder]

I use the pain train on defense. You can’t stop me. Edit: 14:34 HE SAID IT

[@jaysbadatgaming]

14:02 I love how you used the bgm from the Soundsmith video for that reference lol

[@dumbvillage9253]

Why is the thumbnail of a wooden stick with a nail on it made me so excited

[@ГлібКосс]

haven't heard much about the pain train before, but it will probably be my favorite demo melee now

[@chear8145]

Pain train is good, but it needs something more so it isn't awful on defense, maybe like some small damage increase, like 5% maybe, something you can put on it that doesn't justify increasing the downside

[@legitimo1788]

I love this thing, It's very good for captures in the last seconds

[@ralphthejedimaster]

i actually had no idea the effects were passive, that changes a lot

[@DeutschesSoldat1916]

Strange Pain Trains are now $0.18. Thank you, Fish

[@CrashGordon94]

It's quite a simple weapon, but I've been a fan in the places it works for. Two of my Demo loadout presets are "Stock" and "Stock except for Pain Train", depending on which side I'm on (since I like Payload best). The other two are Demoknight setups.

[@xeanderman6688]

Celebration and glad noises, it be another "In Defense of..." video, celebration and glad noises!

[@Davtwan]

Yeah, you could say the biggest downside for Soldier is the opportunity cost of not equipping three of his other most powerful melees.

[@dr.beastmode6376]

Bro that poor spy @ 12:52 lmao

[@fractalisomega9517]

The main drawback is the Niche use it has.... in it's niche it's unmatched, outside of trying to cap... it's a downgrade

[@electroAM]

People like to think that 10% is negligible but it makes a big difference. Think about all those times where you got out of a fight with only 10 or 20 health. With the pain train dying in these scenarios is far more likely.

[@turtleman6366]

6:50 the pipe aim here is just amazing lol

[@CrimsonFox36]

"What is the point?" **zooms in on the tip of the spike** Sir, you are a comedy genius

[@deirasjankauskas3381]

Heavies with dalakos and fists of steel live through 4 pipes

[@Lukman52]

I always thought the pain train was awful. You really do make great points, and started making me use it on Offense.

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

It might have been worth mentioning the Panic Attack's damage for this comparison since it does do a lot of damage if all pellets hit.

[@bumberquest3031]

Thank you for talking about how good the pain train is! Hopefully this video can catch wind to the one guy working on tf2, and needlessly be nerfed so that you only get the bonus when actively holding out the Pain Train instead! Thanks Valve!