[TF2] The Black Box Stigma

[@fishstickonastick-gaming]

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[@enclaveheavytrooper9258]

HAIIII

[@nationalnightlynews8553]

don't play this game, it's like heroin without the happiness

[@lightyena]

pay to win pass video start at 2:19

[@thehandyfamily806]

Copy pasta

[@LucanVaris]

Remember kids: If you use healing/defensive weapons in a video game, you're more cowardly than a Sniper. Sure, they'll only engage you from across the map, but... _healing!_ D: This goes double for anyone who plays Heavy. Sure, Heavy will engage you point-blank, but he's a tank, and tanks are defensive, so coward. This also goes triple for anyone whose team has had a Medic on it (including every Comp player who ever existed), because... *_HEALING!!!!_* D:

[@idavid8391]

I love how most TF2 weapons fall into the two categories of "A simple plus and minus that often leads to an interesting modification of gameplay" or "A total monstrosity of stats that have been tweaked of changed a dozen times over the years and now we're stuck with the awkward Frankenstein's monster it is today."

[@johannesneumayer6041]

„For every winger, there is a wrangler“ ~Sun Zoo

[@TheSwordofFlames]

real actual tf2 moment

[@Red-mg4ro]

@@johannesneumayer6041 And I think he'd know a LITTLE more about weapon balancing than you do, pal!

[@MormonDude]

@@Red-mg4ro Because he invented it! And then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor!

[@SniperSamir]

@@MormonDude AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@solgerWhyIsThereAnAtItLooksBad]

The only rocket launcher in-game that can store multiple rockets irl is also the only one with a clip size penalty. Funny how that happens

[@Jackspladt]

I swear the TF2 devs did everything they could to make sure not a single weapon in the game could realistically function

[@peet-janissen5838]

yea

[@regalblade8171]

It has 1 barrel sooo

[@solgerWhyIsThereAnAtItLooksBad]

@@regalblade8171 they changed the design to make it not work

[@regalblade8171]

@@solgerWhyIsThereAnAtItLooksBad yeah I was adding to your point, hell even the Huntsman doesn't work cuz of the fucky hitboxes iirc only the Skull cleaver works realistically as it's a heavy war axe (slows u down but also beefy damage)

[@ashtmslf2315]

"Biggest stereotypes" The ghost of that godforsaken cello appearing for a split second got me good lmao

[@dragonguy556]

Timestamp?

[@morp9426]

​@@dragonguy556 2:38

[@dragonguy556]

​@@morp9426thanks

[@philippeleprohon4823]

​@@morp9426 OH MY GOD I CAN HEAR IT

[@MrGeneEric]

LEAVE! MY! MIIIIIIIIIND! 😫

[@alexrexaros9837]

“I don't care if what I'm using is a crutch. All I see is that we have NO Medic and YOU are the fourth Sniper on our team and like the others YOU haven't scored a headshot to save your sorry ass!”

[@iceskimo_]

You shouldn't really need a medic to do good with stock unless ur just carried by the black box

[@Guile_The_Exile]

WHO WROTE MY THOUGHTS... WHO ARE YOU!? 🗿🗿🗿

[@Guile_The_Exile]

​@@iceskimo_Yeah who needs health recovery against hitscan and projectiles being shot at you in a first person shooter.... Just keep being that 4th sniper no one needs or asked for!

[@iceskimo_]

@@Guile_The_Exile you know if you kill them they stop shooting at you, which is more likely to happen with the rocket launcher if you're not bad

[@sud1881]

@@iceskimo_yeah sure let me just rocket jump in (take damage) and kill the entire enemy team with 3 rockets so that I don’t take damage.

[@badmanmcanderson4819]

The best thing about Black Box is it displays warpaints pretty well, especially lower wears.

[@tinkerer3399]

It is pretty hilarious that the poster child weapon for overly cautious play looks best when the weapon was obviously kept in pristine condition.

[@citrusorange794]

Especially Paints that are Smissmass Presents

[@joshuafine2161]

Black Box is my only strange rocket launcher, so I basically have no choice but to use it.

[@DaveMillerDsafReal]

Use a shotgun so you don't need to sell your soul to Satan

[@EzekiesAcheron]

Strange rocket launchers are like a dollar, get like a cheapo botkiller or something

[@tankthomus]

I have been using the Solemn Vow on Medic for about 6 years now. This is because it was the first strange I got. Still haven’t switched to the Uber Saw, Solemn Vow for life!

[@10omhz72]

I have a strange black box too but when I show people they run away screaming :(

[@RealRuruu]

You can just... trade it for a stock one?

[@theplaguegamer6216]

Whats funny is a sfm animator The Winglet uses a Black Box Soldier in his story and the Soldier switches from the Conch to a shotgun.

[@gamingtime468]

it's a mid 2010s hq sfm animation, they were just like that

[@theplaguegamer6216]

@@gamingtime468 yeah, winglet just released a teaser for the final part of the story not too long ago.

[@MrSailing101]

This is not my “I’m bad at the game” loadout, this is my “I have to play as my own medic because NOBODY ELSE WILL AND WE CANT LOOSE OUR ONLY POWER CLASS, GOD WHY DO WE HAVE TWO SPIES AND THREE SNIPERS?” Loadout

[@tynoniewiem222]

This. The supply of sniper and spy mains is much higher than demand. I guess other 7 classes are too basic

[@nigeladams8321]

People should treat medics better, it makes it hard to want to play when you get screamed at for not having stock Uber or dieing

[@MrSailing101]

@@nigeladams8321 a quote from a recent game of mine. Hey medic, I've got full Mmmmph, you've got full Uber, Let's do it. and three quarters of the enemy team died

[@niemanickurwa]

Yeah and you also couple it with the buff banner and you can basically go off on your own and do what you want.

[@VPCh.]

The issue with most of the criticism around the black box is that it all focuses around it being bad as a rocket jumper. But rocket jumping is just one type of soldier playstyle. The black box and banners are the most powerful at team engagements instead of the style of jumping in to pick off single targets. The survivability lets you hold points or push for longer, giving your team more time to win. When you start sending rockets into a cluster of enemies, the healing is enough that you can often act like you have your own medic, allowing the medics to heal others and keep the team alive. And when that banner is ready, a banner boost push can easily roll through almost anything, I'd say that it's on par with an uber if you have enough of your team together. It's a powerful combo. If you land your shots in a clip and pair it with a battalion's backup, it gives you an effective health pool of 280, plus an additional 60 for every clip. It can also reward you for being aggressive because instead of running back to your dispenser/health kits like a normal soldier at low health after a fight, you can hold your ground and keep going because you have the possibility to keep fighting if you manage to keep hitting the enemies. As for why it crits, both healing and damage raise your percent chance to crit, so you gain more that way.

[@tinkerer3399]

It honestly isn't even bad at rocket jumping. It's bad at direct engagement rocket jumping. Which is honestly one of my least favourite forms of rocket jumping. "Let's just put all my faith in how bad the enemy is at engaging airborne enemies."

[@xana3961]

So what you're saying is, don't play like the roaming soldier. Play like the pocket soldier. For those who don't know those terms, in competitive 6v6, there are two scouts, two soldiers, a demo, and a medic. Those two soldiers have two different jobs. The roamer is used to repeatedly bomb the enemy team to try and pick the medic (thus resetting that medic's charge to 0) while the pocket is used to defend the medic and anyone nearby. The roamer tends to use the gunboats while the pocket tends to use the shotgun (which is what the black box was paired with in this video.)

[@doo_lissdu_lighost6133]

​@@xana3961so basically "Get down, Mr. President!"

[@darkmewmewsans5481]

@@xana3961 Exactly, issue is most pub players only like to do roamer soldier and refuse to switch up their playstyle in fear of being called a coward or because they're just used to constantly dive bombing.

[@blastmole299]

​@@darkmewmewsans5481Kinda weird since it's my go to Soldier playstyle, not everyone can or want to be a roamer. Probably because it's considered the most "skilled" way to play him

[@TheOnlyZath]

I've never seen the Black Box by itself as a crutch, but Box and Conch is a bit of one when you're on a map that has plentiful health packs as is. I never blame people for running it on 2-Fort for example.

[@OlaftheGreat]

It's a perfect match for maps with few health packs that are far apart

[@EmberTheFlareon3579]

And when no one wants to play medic.

[@ARed_yt]

The Bonch

[@WeeabooPocky]

or when there's not medic.

[@kevincass9917]

Ngl, I don’t pair it with the conch, I go for the original load out of Battalions Backup and Black Box. The BB is really slept on as a backpack, completely underrated compared to the conch and the buff banner

[@MichaelChin1994]

You could also do a weird kinda bomb where you 1. Rocket jump towards the unsuspecting 2. Fire 1 Rocket 3. Fire shotgun just as rocket hits 4. Rocket jump away at point blank range (dealing damage)

[@mog5353]

While this is a thing, the passive self damage reduction doesn't work when your rocket damages someone, so a rocket jump like that can deal upwards of 90 self damage :)

[@overlord3481]

That would never work in practice.

[@mahlawn2808]

@@mog5353 Huh, that's actually interesting to realize. I'm guessing Demoman works the same way? Cause I've had plenty of situations where I try to melee a demo and he ends up killing himself with a direct pipe.

[@user-oc8jp2bk2y]

@@mahlawn2808 according to wiki soldier have 40% damage res to his rockets and demo have 25% res to his stickies and grenades. I have died plenty of times doing a rocketjump without knowing that I am also hitting the enemy and dying... And did some "kills" intentionally as a spy cloaking near rocketjump spots, lol

[@mahlawn2808]

@@user-oc8jp2bk2y That is fucking hilarious lmao. That means if you're super spiteful then it's a good idea to get as close as you can when fighting them.

[@alkimos55]

I love the audio gag whenever he says "stereotype"

[@zwyklykoles7777]

thanks, I didn't notice it before I read this.

[@dealwithit5460]

same here lmao

[@MOTHDADDY1]

mmm soundsmith noise

[@Samsung-1.9Cu.Ft.Microwave]

soysmith mad because stereotypes is his most popular series, lol

[@trevorjamieson8892]

​@Samsung-1.9Cu.Ft.Microwave I feel it's less that he's mad, and more disappointed that work he now considers low-effort is what he's most well known for (there's a reason why he tries so hard with the Mann's Guide series in comparison).

[@suplemon]

14:08 I like the fact that he tried to pull out a shotgun because he used to having one

[@MrSailing101]

10:55 Did you know, in tf2, random crit chance increases the more damage you deal, and the more damage you heal. This is why ‘the Uber saw always crits,’ since the medic is constantly healing teammates, keeping their crit chance maxed. The black box damaged enemies, and heals the soldier, boosting the crit chance more than other launches can. So it’s not just your imagination, the black box really does get more crits.

[@LunaireTD]

Was just about to comment this

[@des4929]

The secret third upside of the blackbox

[@milliondollarmistake]

neither of these things you said are true lol

[@des4929]

@@milliondollarmistake crit rate is based off of a players recent damage and/or healing (not to sure on healing) this is a documented thing

[@MrSailing101]

@@milliondollarmistake i bet you're still a Gibbus goggler

[@D-S-G.]

Others with Black Box: look ma im invincible! Me with Black Box: how tf do you all play with 3 rockets

[@duedadtheduedad9222]

You start playing soldier with the black box

[@black_ghost1215]

ME with black box: if I go down keep fighting, I will return and use my whip to bring reinforcements to the line, and hopefully get my battalion backup charged for a heavy push! Other black box solder: hehe rocket go boom health go up, toot toot shell more health go up.

[@BeantheGerridae]

I use the reserve shooter to keep the damage up

[@trainershade1937]

All this talk about secondaries, and then there's me, who recently had a funny moment using a wildcard option. So I was attacking a Pyro, who noticed I was using the Box and really wanted to reflect it. They missed the first reflect and started to backpedal. This is when I realized that they were one of "those" reflecting Pyros, the ones who forget about M1ing when they really want to M2. So I just kept holding W, as they kept trying to predict my rockets. However the airblast did nothing to halt my approach, for I was running MANTREADS for the luls. When I saw that they ran out of ammo to airblast with, that was when I put a point blank rocket in their face. Best part, I was also out of ammo by the end of it. They could have caught me off guard for an easy kill, but I clearly intimidated them into losing.

[@mahlawn2808]

It's really fun when psychology goes heavily into gameplay

[@shooey-mcmoss]

Sun Tsu, "The Art of War"

[@danielhuelsman76]

I feel called out, because I'm not a Soldier main, I just take whatever role has the least kind of class on a team. Because of that, I can't rocket jump, so I do use the Black Box, and I buff my team.

[@manunova5929]

There is no shame in that. Rocket jumping is just one way to play the game. If you don't like it, grab the whip and coordinate with some players. The Black Box makes you more of a team player in my opinion: It removes some pressure from Medics, and the improved self-sustain can be good to hold onto banner charges. Don't buy into the "coward" stereotype, it was invented by players who lose their mind seeing defensive players, and if it was that bad then why are we not seeing Sniper mains being burned at the stake considering they are actually the most annoying class to deal with?

[@RookMeAmadeus]

8:44 - My personal goal in life. Though honestly, BAD soldiers are more dangerous to these pyros than GOOD ones. Good soldiers tend to have a rhythm to how they fire, so we can get a sense of when to be ready to airblast. Bad ones...you can't predict the next rocket when even THEY don't know when they're gonna fire it.

[@RealRuruu]

I disagree, bad soldiers will usually keep shooting with predictable timing, and good ones tend to delay their shots and try baiting out airblast

[@calebbarnhouse496]

​@@RealRuruubad soldiers spam 4 rockets and then swaps to the shotgun, good soldiers shoot a rocket and rhen shotgun it

[@mattiamamusa5599]

@@RealRuruu no no no he has a point, not necessarly talking only about bad and good but imagine e bell curve that describes the communitys ability playing soldier, the hardest to hit with a deflect are at the most opposites end of the curve cause shit player are really hard to predict cause they almost play completly at random. Extreamly good players, i'm talking full on god comp players, know how to juke pyros with irregular shooting patterns while most players stay in the middle of the bell curve cause they know how to play the game but are generally very predictable, hence why gibus soldiers are sometimes even harder to deflect then decent soldiers.

[@simplysmiley4670]

mooost of the time it's the instant they notice there is a player existing in front of them, wether their own teammate or an enemy doesn't matter, it's someone so point and click

[@fink_rat]

This is why I use the beggars. Pairs well when high off of glue

[@Spyachungus]

I’d like to take partial credit for these 2 roll out clips at 4:48 as I know for a fact fish wouldn’t be able to do them without the jump academy streams

[@tizianolocarno111]

people seem to forget that having one less rocket is indeed a downside

[@manunova5929]

That's also why it's considered a crutch. A crutch is sort of an early difficulty modifier that ends up holding you back once you get good enough. I don't think it's a crutch, it just doesn't serve the roamer playstyle and is more team-oriented rather than an aggressive rampage weapon.

[@tizianolocarno111]

@@manunova5929 usually the black box is better in a team with no medics and on a map with scarce medikits, but yeah, it suits more the support soldier play style over the aggressive roamer

[@manunova5929]

@@tizianolocarno111 I would say that even with Medics around it's fine. You support them by needing less healing and taking pressure off them.

[@tizianolocarno111]

@@manunova5929 true true

[@okupant880]

I personally am hyper aggressive as a soldier and don't even think about rocket jumping away. I jump in, use my rockets, pull out the shotty and get the time to reload after everyone is dead or i don't need to reload anymore. Black Box, stock shotgun, Half Zatoichi is the way i play and retreat was never an option.

[@Mannco.orange]

So like the actual soldier tf2?

[@alexbradshaw5466]

realistic soldier

[@simarkarmani4034]

@Mannco.orange yes

[@vittripps]

The main benefit of the black box is that even battle scared warpaints look divine on it

[@johnr4182]

I don’t know what to say, I just wanna boost engagement How is this my most liked comment? I only said I don’t know what to say and somehow that got me 700+ likes

[@theclown2257]

Fair enough. I think I'll join you

[@LeTilapya]

🐟👍

[@calebkelly8221]

Honestly same 😆

[@PARTY_MUTT]

Lego Star Wars III

[@averageexistenceenjoyer3950]

Same, maggot

[@Klaptorsk]

my dumbass thought the title was 'The Black Box Sigma'

[@Spubbily01]

Yeah, I guess I was featured in that video

[@javierrc5794]

Same The brain rot and sumatoris

[@PandaCake978]

You are more likely to get a random crit if you have recently dealt damage. And since you are constantly healing, you can stay in fights longer and keep moving to the next ones immediately. Meaning your recently done damage will stay high and your fair and balanced random crits will keep flowing.

[@MormonDude]

honestly I love using the Concheror more with the Cow Mangler. It, ironically, feels like it synergizes better with the Cow Mangler better than the other weapons since it allow you to not worry about neither your health nor your ammo. screw both ammo packs and health kits. Just live off the land and the sweat of your own brow.

[@blastmole299]

But what about my random crits? Just kidding, I like it when I have to defend, the knockback on secondary is a nice bonus too

[@archmagetyler]

as any good mangler main should.

[@RdTrler]

Now that's freedom. Soldier would be proud.

[@EthVortexShield]

sigma loadout

[@staticsphere_]

5:22 *Soundsmith has entered the chat*

[@NeverToBeSeenAgain]

the biggest skill the black box teaches you is to check your rocket count before entering combat. Easy to overlook but it is SO PUNISHING to not fully reload on the blackbox that it really trains you to always check.

[@pubcle]

Turn on auto-reload. There is genuinely no reason not to have auto-reload on in TF2, every reload animation is completely cancellable.

[@NeverToBeSeenAgain]

@@pubcle I do run auto reload, what I am talking about is pausing before entering a room or peaking a corner to finish getting all 3 rockets loaded since missing even 1 can be deadly.

[@pubcle]

@@NeverToBeSeenAgain Gotcha, fair enough.

[@SagelyOne]

"Black Box is a crutch" mfs when I'm better at aiming my rockets than a stock soldier

[@iceskimo_]

I mean, then you'd do better with stock since you have more rockets to "aim better than stock soldiers" with. Unless you can't survive.....

[@GobaGNon]

@@iceskimo_wow it sure does sound like this weapon has a balance of increasing survivability to increase damage over a long fight, while decreasing burst damage.

[@iceskimo_]

@@GobaGNon if you were good enough you wouldn't need your weapon to help you survive. You have an extra rocket to help you do so, you just need the skill to back it up. This is what a crutch is sir.

[@GobaGNon]

@@iceskimo_ I think you’re deliberately ignoring the point that it has uses in skilled hands that make it a up or side-grade to stock depending on the situation. Something that wouldn’t be present in a crutch.

[@iceskimo_]

@@GobaGNon 9 timed out of 10 stock is better in skilled hands lol. Name the situations that it would be a complete upgrade to stock in skilled hands

[@watsyurdeal]

It's crazy how much the community has changed over the years. Back in my day the only crutch was Liberty Launcher, now apparently Black Box is a crutch and Direct Hit is overpowered.

[@SmileOmega1]

I think the Direct Hit kinda followed a similar trajectory to Sniper himself, in that it was clearly balanced around the ludicrously high skill requirement to get results consistently, but then enough time passed that enough people can nail their hits with that level of consistency that it breaks the whole balance wide open. The Black Box is a shame because it ended up having just the right amount of traits to facilitate a very "Spam from backline" playstyle, despite probably being meant as a more offensive weapon.

[@kingol4801]

@@SmileOmega1 I really don’t understand why Direct Hit is not a homing projectile. That would make it balanced, at the cost of only having 1 rocket in the chamber

[@yesno7264]

Direct Hit is only overpowered in one-on-one fights. The tiny splash range is a meagre downside when fighting single targets since you wanna be going for air shots anyways (or melee hits *laughs in 140 damage maximum ramp-up*), but for encounters with multiple enemies you lose out on all that crowd control

[@manunova5929]

​@@yesno7264 ^ Literally. I hate to see people talking about the Direct Hit as if it was some sort of godlike Uber weapon which only has a skill requirement. Reminds me of a big TF2ber's video on the weapon where he completely disregarded the main actual downside of the Direct Hit: that this is a team shooter and it takes away the AoE part of the AoE class.

[@manunova5929]

​@@yesno7264 ^ Literally. I hate to see people talking about the Direct Hit as if it was some sort of godlike Uber weapon which only has a skill requirement. Reminds me of a big TF2ber's video on the weapon where he completely disregarded the main actual downside of the Direct Hit: that this is a team shooter and it takes away the AoE part of the AoE class.

[@Enthusiasst]

the black box sigma

[@SeaalCox]

This is what I accidentally read it as until halfway into the video lol

[@Clown_the_Clown]

I'm going to stigma your pfp

[@JayFeather321]

[𝐄𝐗𝐓𝐑𝐄𝐌𝐄𝐋𝐘 𝐋𝐎𝐔𝐃 𝐈𝐍𝐂𝐎𝐑𝐑𝐄𝐂𝐓 𝐁𝐔𝐙𝐙𝐄𝐑]

[@crimson_void]

adrenaline + noradrenaline+ 2fort stare + dusbowl rage + still water those who know: 🗿🍷☠️💀

[@christopherearth9714]

​@@crimson_void still badwater*

[@necromater6656]

6:21 hilarious that both the right and left generally agree with the sentiment of the quote.

[@sasho_b.]

No, the right does not. Moderates are right wing most of the time. There is no in-between between conserving social order and changing it. You are either trying to hamper progress and aid the current status quo or you are trying to change the status quo, to displace it and disrupt it. A moderate is either an unproductive leftist or an uncommitted conservative. Most often the latter, a person who openly agrees with the goals of change but actively fights the means to said change. Who wants to eat their cake and have it too. Something something Malcolm X/MLK jr. quote about liberals.

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

Not like the centrists give any reason whatsoever for either to reconsider that

[@MistaHoward]

Yeah because it turns out people who are obsessed with politics tend to be tribalistic golems and horeseshoe theorem is proven correct more than it's ever been in the modern era.

[@zeldies1976]

Quoting hbomberguy of all people really caught me off guard. And whoever agrees with this quote needs to go outside asap.

[@necromater6656]

@@zeldies1976 Guess he's just a commie or something.

[@Napinger]

The weirdest thing about this weapon is that its somehow firing rockets even though its just a black box

[@capnlatenight5356]

M202 FLASH Rocket Launcher

[@Gregger57]

You use the black box because it gives you health. I use the black box because it's cool looking, we are NOT the same.

[@ComparativelyRegular]

Pretty based tbh. I use the Iron Bomber back when its grenade's hitbox is technically larger not because of that, but because it looks cooler than the stock Grenade Launcher for me.

[@Gregger57]

@@ComparativelyRegular true

[@blastmole299]

​@@ComparativelyRegularMine is because of the sound it makes, we are NOT the same too

[@ComparativelyRegular]

@@blastmole299 Yeah the sound is cool too.

[@shrimpchris6580]

Why not both?

[@Jennacide.]

I happened to be updating my GPU drivers while watching this video, and my screen went black as he was screaming "Make it stop"

[@lenship2]

10:30 erm ackshually its effectively boosted by 54% because of how percentages work

[@legitimo1788]

The best play of my life on this game was one that my team was being spawn camped at Gold Rush 2° part. And then on the overtime I was able to get out the spawn, use the concheror, kill a bunch of enemies and push the car to the point through the entire way without dying. Everyone on the team praised me, I love this weapon

[@Toro563]

The Soundsmith stereotypes music playing when he said stereotypes at the beginning is gold

[@ClaimSuit]

Yeah... I might be in the minority, but; I don't see it as a crutch just because not everyone plays a class in a single minded "meta" playstyle (especially when that playstyle tends to encourage overextending which is a far worse habit in objective based maps). If someone doesn't like the black box because a soldier can play defensively on an objective? Then simple solution is just "Stop it. Get some help." It's an objective based game and not a KD based one. Let them have their fun instead of demanding they conform to your prefered method. Having Fun > Winning

[@RouxTheKitsune]

B-b-b-b-but no no You aren't playing optimaly!! 😭😭😭 Y-you can't use a crutch! No CC, no heals without a medic, No DOT, no crits 😭🤜

[@PrusskiyMir]

how dare you

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

this would be true and agreeable if he didn't sent a crit flying toward the medic halfway across the map (thats me) 2-3 times a round, multiple rounds in a row.

[@ClaimSuit]

@@SarutinMcWhotookmyname That's not a problem with the weapon, it's a problem with random crits and the reason 80% of community servers disable them. Black Box is hardly the only one

[@SarutinMcWhotookmyname]

@@ClaimSuit Still, random crits have an effect on gameplay for many players who avoid community servers for... various reasons. I'm saying that the reason this weapon garners more hate than you believe it deserves isn't because of its performance on random crit disabled servers, but instead on Valve servers here many other players (including myself) prefer to play. There, the Black Conch combo excels more than many other unlocks in large part to how crit chance rises with healing. Despite it being memed at as a joke way of balancing things, I bet if weapons like the Ubersaw and Black Box were given "no random critical hits", they would be sharply weakened in commonly played environments such as official servers as a result, and for a similar reason to the Southern Hospitality having a near 0% equip rate. There's a reason the video complains about it multiple times, and contrary to your argument, I think it IS a problem with the weapon, and even with the Conch's healing tying into more random crits. Though I do believe that a defense oriented style for a normally generalist class like soldier is far from a bad thing, a random crits problem is still a problem for players who play away from community servers.

[@ThePowerofCutleries]

I love this new running gag of HBomberGuy living rent free in FishStick's head. I hope to see more of it in the future!

[@AryanAkane]

Get a job

[@ThePowerofCutleries]

@AryanAkane Waaay ahead of you, pal.

[@nicholaspeterson6366]

15:43, shoutout to the dude who gave like 50 scorch shots

[@anthonyoliver418]

Honestly the black box is a good soft grade (a side grade that is very minor with it changes the base choice) it allows you to just barely survived being attacked or get health during an ambush, and the downside although isn’t that restrictive, still forces the weapon to be more careful with ammo management since you will have less ammo in reserve versus if you used any other option. I can’t tell you how often you can save yourself especially when being ambushed by a scout, but it wont be as useful for back to back jumping, but still a good tip for soldier is to remember, you don’t always need to rocket jump, since using it as more of utility can help you more often than just launching yourself to the other side of the map hoping a random engie didn’t place an sentry in your jump path.

[@moony_otter]

Black Box is a less aggressive weapon, the Concheror is a support weapon... It's almost like this combination makes Soldier a defense class, similar to Heavy. This is not a weapon that "hinders growth" or anything, its a new playstyle. It changes how you play, that's what unlocks are meant to do-- at least, good ones do. If you want to play Roamer Soldier, then use the rocket launcher intended for that playstyle.

[@manunova5929]

I wouldn't call it "new" at this point, but yeah, it's also more team focused. At least I would assume you would hang around your teammates instead of running around trying to get a high K/D.

[@chriscreeper85]

The brain rot is getting to be i read stigma as sigma

[@Guile_The_Exile]

I swear I've never seen more people complain about a character in a game like I've seen people cry and thrash about towards Solider AND Pyro...

[@blastmole299]

Imo, it's Soldier > Pyro > Sniper > Spy > Scout > Medic > Demo > Engi > Heavy

[@vectorsahel5420]

​@@blastmole299Heavy being last is so wrong

[@blastmole299]

@@vectorsahel5420 Really? I don't see people cry about heavy that much

[@Satherian]

@@vectorsahel5420 What? Who would be complained about less than Heavy? He's probably the most honest class (and worst because of that)

[@nerkdurgen5574]

just a theory i have, dunno if its true, but the black box might have that insane crit rate because of the lifesteal. for medic i know for a fact his healing increases his crit rate the same way damage does, which is why the ubersaw crits so damn much. maybe the life steal of the black box also counts toward crit rate, thus giving soldier at max damage 20 more points added to his crit rate calculations. not certain though, maybe the tfteam anticipated this and made healing for crit rate only a thing for medic

[@inlander.wentruz]

based. black box with shotgun is my favorite soldier loadout for less team focused gamemodes like KOTH

[@Optimisticgaymer]

Bruh I don't even care, turn off the chat, mute my teammates, and pick my weapons based on how cook they look. That's why I stay the cart humping brass beast heavy and bb soldier everyone hates

[@unr34L-]

Ywnbaw

[@blastmole299]

When there are no snipers, a dispenser/medic near you, and a nice corner. Brass Beast is a total beast (pun definitely not intended)

[@Chodor101]

It's funny that despite the stereotype of noob and a coward most soldiers that use it are super aggressive and ignore health packs since enemy team is just a big one that also gives frags.

[@RustyLesh]

11:33 "Switching to your secondary is faster than reloading"

[@TheRighteousBison]

The only secondary worth using with the Black Box is the Mighty Righteous Bison! When it is revealed, the opponent knows that running is no longer an option, that the ‘Easy Target’ they once fixated on is now a one man army capable of delivering justice to those that stand in their way!

[@Gricky_Da_Bomb]

holy cow

[@TheRighteousBison]

@@Gricky_Da_Bomb The Holy Cow Mangler could also work with the Bison, after all it was released with it.

[@bluecube9515]

I enjoy shotguns on any class that can equip one. When I play soldier and I'm not just meming with the Equalizer (a rare moment), I like to keep my launcher in my pocket as a quick transport tool and a fight starter/finisher while my shotgun is my mainline head-to-head combat tool. That makes the one less rocket, for me, less of a problem.

[@bluecube9515]

I made this comment before the part where he talked about shotguns. Oops.

[@grandwizardautismo]

Do people still think the Black Box is a crutch now? I remember ConchBox being hated when the Black Box healed you for 15 health on every hit, no matter how much damage you dealt. The modern Black Box is a lot more balanced and I haven’t seen anyone complain about it in years

[@iceskimo_]

It's a crutch

[@kingol4801]

@@iceskimo_ Anything is a “crutch” according to TF2 “experts”. These judgmental elitist gatekeepers ruin fun for all.

[@iceskimo_]

@@kingol4801 not stopping you from playing the game however you want. Just making fun of you for it

[@maxxpower3d6]

@@iceskimo_ crutches are great for beating you with

[@iceskimo_]

@@maxxpower3d6 if that helps you sleep at night, I guess

[@calebkelly8221]

Shotguns have always been a good secondary choice for unorthodox primary weapons

[@manunova5929]

Shotguns also just so happen to be very consistent within their range and offer a lot of leeway in 1 v 1 scenarios. They are my favourite weapon in the game.

[@christopherearth9714]

Shotguns in TF2 have always been a strange case to m-

[@chamitoempire1672]

In defense of the Big Black Cox

[@tonyawwwno3364]

I like the idea of a weapon that heals, i love the thought of being an aggressive flank soldier who can keep killing and stay in the fight But that one rocket, man. That one rocket lost is BRUTAL

[@isaacnikolic5895]

I love that Tf2 lets bad players play the game. In so many other games if you're a newb your life is just awful until 200 hours later. In Tf2 there are random crits, w plus m1 pyros, weapons like the black box, and game modes like payload where you get health and amo just by standing near the cart. Your more experienced teammates will be off rocket jumping, base busting, back stabbing, sniping, and all sorts of cool shit. But as someone bad at the game I just had fun standing on the kart and occasionally killing people with the crits and healing of the black box. I obviously still lost most of the time against more skilled players but random crits and crutch weapons gave me the chance to feel powerful and cool once in a while despite my lack of skill and still contribute to the team. I think it's great game balance and incentivizes people of all skill levels to play. (I also think all of the recent sniper hate is bs, it's okay to lose and be outplayed, just enjoy the game for having one of the best balanced multiplayers in gaming history).

[@mariustan9275]

Yeah that's true. I still remember when I was Engineer on Egypt setting up with another Engineer on Egypt and taunting.

[@ps-frag]

sniper hate is more than justified

[@Mannco.orange]

@@ps-fragI would agree with you to degree. Yes sniper can be bullshit sometimes. Buts only if the sniper is really good.

[@Finzombie]

Was not expecting heckling Hbomberguy’s DS2 review in this video but hell yeah fuck that review

[@rawmaw]

2:17 skip sponsor

[@CatInSuit69]

already have sponsorblock but thank you ig

[@rawmaw]

@@CatInSuit69 same

[@6lbs._onion]

​@@CatInSuit69 🤫

[@alexeyeliseev6322]

We got manual sponsorblock before Half Life 3 💀💀💀

[@lovingfool2060]

blown away in the editing for this one fish, great stuff

[@nazrielimansyah]

Less Stigma, More Sigma

[@masahirosakurai2042]

Black Box respect button ->

[@TyTy-tl1qb]

So I use the Black box with the stock shotgun and really like listening to peoples opinions on it. I use it for longevity and the ammo issue isn't as bad with shotgun which helps with the divebomb issue. Cool video, always like watching your stuff.

[@Poopafartium]

i remember when the black box healed 15 PER enemy hit, so hitting 3 enemies would gain you 45 hp. Kinda broken

[@volatile5460]

Intro is really funny because that’s a russian tank soldier is thirsting over

[@michalsniadala1667]

0:18 ok thia was funny af

[@tristan5.mp4]

This could also apply to some of your other weapon reviews but I really enjoyed the way you formatted it A lot of other weapon reviewers tend to dump all of the stats up first, but you managed open up with the general narrative and overall features of the weapon before getting into the specifics which makes the video much more digestible

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

A question for the more code-savvy Tf2 players: Fish says he felt the Black Box crit more than usual. You know how medics and engineers crit more than expected because random crit rate also scales with their healing done? Is it possible the Black Box actually _has_ a higher crit rate because of the weapon's self-healing (and inevitable conch self-healing)?

[@PrinceSilvermane]

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think self healing mechanics counts towards the crit rate. It could just be a 'they survive more so they end up with more crits' kind of situation.

[@MusicFreak0426]

Love this take, and the amazing clip on the explanation of the demo two-tap. Not many folks would’ve had such a clear cut demonstrative clip not only showing it’s not necessarily OP (as you both died) but present and could provide a situation where you do survive. ❤ Great video

[@sugarfreejelly5577]

CrossCode Music noticed Like Administered.

[@doomslayer5662]

"Lea! Hi!" -Smol Evotar

[@garbotoxin_enthusiast]

A good way to supplement your lack of a rocket for bombing is replacing the second rocket with a melee attack (I’d recommend either the market gardener for the high damage or the whip for higher range and more utility. Also the reason the black box shits out crits is because crit chance counts healing and damage done so you are getting more crit points

[@BUNOBUNO-so5nu]

Not trying to be a contrarian, but I didn’t actually know healing increases crit chance. Where did you find out abt it?

[@garbotoxin_enthusiast]

@@BUNOBUNO-so5nu I read on the wiki that healing with the medigun increases crit chance (hence the ubersaw always critting) so I assume it’s the same for the black box

[@gagamer7251]

i'll definitely have to give it a try when i play next. my playstyle is the same sort of duality of the BB, play a bit back, but then go huge with a banner. i like the stock or direct miss, but this seems like it could be really fun.

[@squooshster1459]

Black box is what I use when I want to play soldier on a team without reliable healing or a map with sparse healthpacks

[@pandemonium2536]

The "Moderation is a delusion" quote has gotta be one of the most shallow and idiotic quoted I've ever seen try to sound deep. There is a moderation between left and right, we don't live on a set four directional axis where we can only turn at 90° angles, there are infinitely many points between what is perfectly right and what is perfectly left. Same with Correct and Incorrect, you can be partially or technically correct in situations where you're not objectively 100% perfectly right. Kinda irrelevant to the video as a whole, great video, but that quote just caused me Psychic damage in real life and I needed to articulate how stupid it is.

[@LinteirSomeZebra]

Honesty - but maybe it's only me who thinks that - it's *the old* Black box who could trigger annoyance in people when it healed *15 HP* for each target no matter of dealt damage. And soldiers regenerated *45-60 HP* per shot. Now it's very underwhelming, you don't win much for loosing one rocket.

[@privatepessleneck]

Idunno, I feel like health simply for damaging the foes is pretty powerful. I feel like it's almost akin to the scorch shot in the way it rewards mindless shooting. Like Soldier just needs to use a high damage, splash damage weapon to get easy health. Meanwhile you have stuff like the candy cane, that while giving passive health drops on foes, still need to be retrieved and you are burdened with a major explosion weakness, or the heavy's warrior's spirit, where in case going melee as heavy wasn't hard enough, you have effectively a third of your health gone. I don't think the black box is game breaking or anything, but I feel like health just attacking is pretty powerful at the cost of not being able to do something most black box users don't do anyway.

[@javierdominguez8547]

At this point, I feel like the Scorch shot is a better area denial weapon than the gas passer. Especially with the mindless spam.

[@rawmaw]

It actively punishes "mindless shooting" since you have one less rocket in your clip, meaning putting a rocket to waste or simply having it be overall ineffective can be a life or death scenario during combat.

[@windhelmguard5295]

really dumb take though. first of all the health you get back is based on how much damage you do, so spamming mindlessly (as in not hitting direct hits) won't even get you much health back. secondly spam is usually done from relative safety, so your rockets suffer damage falloff and the only damage you'll take while mindlessly spamming are demos and snipers, whom the black box can't out heal at long range due to aforementioned damage fall off.

[@blastmole299]

One of the reasons why I like Pretty Boy on Scout. It's a decently safe run away tool while still dealing decent damage at range

[@blastmole299]

One of the reasons why I like Pretty Boy on Scout. It's a decently safe run away tool while still dealing decent damage at range

[@ryukozeng7124]

what if instead of "The Black Box Stigma" it was "The Black Box Sigma" and instead of shooting rockets at people we shot loads at people while listening to "Thick of It" by KSI while eating Lunchly and watching Talk Tuah

[@tiredjay3000]

5:56 - 5:58 💀

[@Eaghan_Bester]

More like black box sigma

[@MrAceofspades627]

Jabs at Hbomb? In my video im half listening to while bored at work? Im fucking here for it, thats some good shit.

[@randomassortmentofthings]

T'wasn't a jab

[@glad16252]

I think a solid way to buff the Black Box to synergize more with the Battalion’s Backup would be a simple rewording of it’s up side. Instead of a max of 20hp per shot, a max of 10% of max hp per shot. This does literally nothing unless you have the Battalion’s, in which case you end up with a max of 22hp per shot. Something very minor that gives it a slight synergy that’d be neat imo.

[@takingpigon8478]

0:34 hehe funni tank game goo brrrr Ima leak some documents >:3

[@Pudding404]

The Blackbox was designed to be a roamer playstyle, not needing a medic. But pretty funny how most people just use it to double down on playing too safe.

[@TaborlinTheGreat]

The casual Hbomber shitting gave me a great smile

[@thatorangeguy3646]

dustborn is proof Hbomber guy was right though

[@mightaswell]

I feel so Stigma! - Black Box Soldier

[@PioterRArmia]

Stigma stigma on the wall, who's the skibidiest of them all?

[@jamesanderson-xi3jh]

I am going to touch you

[@thr333stars]

You won't get this one, Batman!

[@Satherian]

6:35 I swear Fish brings this up on like a daily basis

[@RioManegos]

"Also, the black box just shits out crits for some reason..." Probably the same reason Medics get constant melee crits: Because healing done increases your crit potential like damage done, and black box soldiers are double-dipping.

[@ThatOnePotatoTF2]

this is just false. healing does NOT increase crit chance, this comes from a bias and is a myth proven false. so blackbox soldiers do NOT get increased critical chance from the healing bonus, only the damage they deal.

[@philiphockenbury6563]

Actually no. Medics don't gain crits from healing. Theory Y has a video where he does extensive statistical testing in the game to prove it wrong.

[@simplysmiley4670]

Medic doesn't get crit chance from healing, but from his patient's damage. It's same as engineer with his sentry gun and ungodly wrench crits. It's not _you_ doing the damage, but you still see the damage numbers, ergo game recognises you as the damage dealer.

[@philiphockenbury6563]

@@simplysmiley4670 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHKbopWPmJ6Yrpo

[@ThatOnePotatoTF2]

​@@simplysmiley4670this is not true either, both the medic and engineer examples are caused by bias, as these two classes are the classes who use their melee for attacking more often than other classes. Medic uses the Ubersaw (or any saw) as a self defence tool, since it's the best closed range weapon he has. Engineer uses his wrench to construct and upgrade his building, so swinging it at the spy is better than pullin out your shotgun most of the time/ if you have the rescue ranger.

[@istvanlovasz1221]

5:20 that stereotype musical bit did not go unnoticed, took me a second to get it :)

[@C00L_DUD31]

Even the best soldier of all time WILL take damage. If rewarding people for getting consistent accurate damage whilst making consistency more difficult is a crutch, then literally every weapon is a crutch. A scout also gets rewarded for consistently hitting enemies the same with heavy, spy, demo, sniper, medic, pyro and engineer. A crutch would be a weapon that rewards you for missing or making you immune to one of your counters. Something that a skilled player would not benefit from. Things like the dead ringer (rewarding an out of place spy) the two sniper shields (allowing you to be unaware of your surroundings and immune to fire) ,the iron bomber with its massive Projectiles(making it easier to hit). ECT.

[@szymonwilczynski6870]

Iron Bomber got fixed though, didn't it?

[@dubl33_27]

@@szymonwilczynski6870 an even then. it barely affected anything, people give way more credit to that large hitbox than it deserves

[@hayato1886]

​@@dubl33_27Real. I never noticed the difference while playing or going against demo, though personally I'd just use stock anyway

[@C00L_DUD31]

@@szymonwilczynski6870 yes that was just an example.

[@dubl33_27]

@@hayato1886 i like how the iron bomber looks more and i hate that people call it a crutch

[@coopermcdonald5043]

I love how you use Pokémon music for your videos.

[@sasho_b.]

6:26 Hbomber guy being correct, as always.

[@Kee715]

Ayy I'm the pyro that ate the crocket at 11:20 - TexNG. That was a fun game!

[@MistaHoward]

Thank you for the unprovoked shitting on Hbomberman, that made my day.

[@sasho_b.]

You can also watch sargon of akkad in case you have any more brain matter you want to get rid of.

[@GlobinHD]

Every time Fish takes time out of a video just to shit on some youtuber I already didn’t like, It really just puts a smile on my face and a wet spot in my trousers

[@amrilbayrookie1768]

Personally I try use the black box to stay longer in fights because even though I am doing less damage I'm at least holding a fight. I usually use it to stay in fights longer or try hold of multiple enemies for a longer period of time. The black box is nice with the concheror not because of the PASSIVE HEAL but the BANNER EFFECT. Some speed boost and health on hit is nice. The black box can still be used in an aggressive playstyle.

[@TheTundraTerror]

"As hbomberguy once said..." Gross.

[@purplehaze2358]

I used to use this thing religiously before my two braincells finally communicated with each other and I realized it doesn't mesh well with my natural dislike of reloads.

[@NanaKyoto]

Considering that The Battalion's Backup is my favorite of the three banners, I will 100% be using the Black Box with it, as Black Box+Conch is too boring. I also will typically run the full Tank Buster set, which means including the hat, it's one of my favorite Soldier hats, for the record. Lastly, for some reason, I find myself being more accurate with my rockets when using Black Box, and I'm not sure why that is...I should instead be more accurate when using the Liberty Launcher, because that is a fun weapon too!

[@enderwallice8500]

I guess you could call me… A BLACKBOXWARRIOR/OKULTRA

[@jjjjjjjjj99]

I found out I couldn’t square the one less rocket so i use conch with stock if I want some sustain over a secondary.