You Hated How The Subaru Outback Did Off-Road: So We Took Your Suggestions and Tried Again!

( www.TFLcar.com )You Hated How The Subaru Outback Did Off-Road: So We Took Your Suggestions and Tried Again!
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[@TFLcar]

Watch the first time we tested the New Outback up Gold Mine Hill Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZvQep6bZZZ-p6c

[@oguzhaneren]

Should have been tested with VDC: Off and X-Mode: On.

[@TFLnow]

Oguzhan Eren That’s what we did in the first video found above

[@oguzhaneren]

You did not show that in the first video but your son did it in this one :) Actually you are testing electronic locking diff here in this test and X-Mode is primarily built for better EDC speed and engagement...

[@oguzhaneren]

Actually, you don't need to climb there again to test all of these scenarios.. you know diagonal roller tests, right? Just make a diagonal roller test, but in a very steep street, similar slope in that stage 3... And then we'll see what happens in each iterations.. Iteration 1: vdc: on xmode:off (default) Iteration 2: vdc: off xmode: off (you tried this) Iteration 3: vdc: on xmode: on Iteration 4: vdc off xmode: on (the best recipe) So, grab two rollers, find a very steeeeep street in your town, if there is one; then run these iterations...

[@oguzhaneren]

This famous video is the answer to why you should test with rollers not on flat surface, instead, on a STEEP one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJzMp2CYjMd_f9E&

[@nunyabizness6546]

I can tell you after two years with my outback, that while it's capable off the road, it's NOT a Wrangler or purpose built rock crawler. However, it's almost unparalleled on snow and ice, which are a far more common issue for most drivers. It pulls my boat (and gets great traction on wet boat ramps), Hauls all the camping gear, is comfortable on long drives, averages 28.5 mpg all around over the last 6k miles, has loads of safety features found on more expensive vehicles, and will handle 90% of the off road driving that dedicated off roaders will do. In short, it will do all the off roading most people will want, while being a far superior every day driver when compared to more potent off road vehicles.

[@danieljay8009]

big thing is the milage, not everyone lives where gas is cheap and they can drive a guzzler as a daily

[@RVFishingAdventures]

@@danieljay8009 Too true. My F350 FX4 Superduty Diesel is more capable offroad than my Outback 3.6R in several ways... but I take my Subie more places than the truck because it's cheaper on many levels, not just MPGs.

[@keithskoglund10]

I just used a loaner 2020 subi outback for two weeks and consistently got 24mpg

[@0xsergy]

the thing is too that this subaru still has an open center diff, essentially. with these cvts and automatics you can add a switch to 'lock' the center diff basically to give you better offroad ability(the transfer case already has all the tech for it, normally its controlled by the computer but manual is best offroad). without that it oscillates the power front to back a bit too often which can stop you on some obstacles or require you to get more momentum.

[@nickenomics]

I like it. To keep their metaphor most people dont scuba dive, they go snorkeling

[@Normambo]

I'm a Subaru enthusiast and thought during the previous stage 3 Gold mine hill test that you were subtly trashing the Outback's reputation. You've proven to be honest in showing this revised test. You made it clear that Subaru wasn't working with you guys but you were able to invest in buying the car to test it for the benefit of the audience. You've earned my respect. I appreciated seeing the limits of the Outback. Norm from Montreal, Canada

[@edwardjski]

"I appreciate seeing the limits of the Outback" ...as much as that hurts! I'd like to see it climb that hill as if its on a conveyor belt. :-)

[@LMCDRM]

The Subie is - in stock configuration - a soft-roader for sure. It's not designed to compete with a Jeep rock crawler or that Titan 4WD. But - hey - it did it.

[@drivewayhero]

The point is that this stage of the test doesn't require a "rock crawler" to complete it. Many other stock all wheel drive cars made it up including a Mitsubishi CVT, Subaru not what it used to be

[@LMCDRM]

Huh... So Subaru is "not what it used to be"...? Name one car maker that is. Every manufacturer will change to keep up - it's a case of "adapt or die". Subaru - a small maker - has made changes to their products over the years to be less quirky and to be more mainstream. That's not a bad thing. Other small makers - Mazda and Mitsubishi for example - have also changed. And what really sets Subaru apart from pretty much everybody else, is that Subaru's AWD system is designed from the start as an AWD system and not some FWD system with an added drive shaft to a (now) driven rear axle. With the exception of the BRZ, they start life as AWD and are better than just about any other AWD system out there. Are they rock crawlers? No. But then again, neither is anybody else - especially stock off the lot - with the exception of a few Jeep models.

[@drivewayhero]

@@LMCDRM Again, no one is saying a subaru is a rock crawler. The point is that Subaru advertises themselves to be a "go anywhere" vehicle. But in this case, other manufacturers beat the subaru hands down. Fact, I own a non-cvt subaru with its own headgasket issues, but I would not buy a new one simply because a CVT subaru dressed up in all its external visual upgrades does not mean better capability. CVTs are not meant to slip. It means they sacrificed their capability for improved gas mileage. Sure, maybe nothing is like it used to be and it was inevitable for Subaru to do this but, for example, Mazda did not go CVT, neither did KIA or Hyundai. Look at the abomination that is the new "RS" Impreza, it's got the 2.5 but only comes in CVT, not even a manual option.

[@LMCDRM]

@@drivewayhero Eh .. not so much.... The CVT is not slipping. Instead, the ECU and TCU are pulling power instead of slipping the transmission; the power is being applied to the wheel/wheels with traction to move the vehicle forward. There are many others that have head gasket problems... look at Dodge/Chrysler, look at Fiat, look at others. Mazda did not go CVT (yet?) and neither have many others. But then again, more than a few have. So CVTs are not a sign of the apocalypse ... They're a means to an end. A CVT is better in a lot of situations because it will use the best ratio for just about any given situation. Instead of having 5 or 6 or 8 ratios, it has a near-infinite set of ratios to use. As for the RS - it's all about what you do or do not want. Many makers are going away from a manual transmission and a lot of safety features are not able to be used with a manual transmission. For example, if a car does emergency braking, the computer systems work in conjunction with the engine and the transmission and the rest to stop the vehicle. The manual transmission will not be able to downshift as needed to keep the engine from stalling with the loss of fuel to the engine. But that's a discussion for another time.

[@drivewayhero]

@@LMCDRM The CVT is most definitely slipping because you would not get a warning if it was not and potential damage if you continue. I understand perfectly well what a CVT does no need to explain and the fact that it finds the perfect ratio to the engine speed. That's what kills it for me. That's when driving becomes a bore. that's the reason why lotta sports cars enthusiast cars actual driving cars that are fun to drive don't use the CVT. And the fact that they put paddle shifters on CVT transmissions to "simulate" "gear shifts" it's about the same abomination as piping in synthetic sound into the cabin instead of just listening to the engine, which manufactures have resorted to as well such as the new supra. Lane assists, start/stop systems, "eye sight" looking st your face the whole time and babying you. Pretty much no one will know how to drive soon.

[@kirkminer4190]

I also believe if I was going to take the Outback off road on a regular basis, I would equip it with aggressive or off road tires.

[@MacTechG4]

And the manual transmission

[@swpa8742]

It doesn’t even have the power to turn regular tires in dry dirt lol.

[@andrewleakey3149]

The Mitsubishi did it

[@whilstingdog]

They would have to drop down a rim size to get a good off road tire.

[@lifeisgood070]

@@MacTechG4 dont make outback manual anymore. My 07 was stick. I tried to buy a manual. Unfortunately the gear ratios subaru picks for a lot of cars are a bit too tight. The sti has to be in 3rd gear to hit 60mph. And on the highway at 80mph it's north of 3500rpm maybe 4000rpm.

[@captainthrall]

"guys, trust me I know what I'm doing." 3 minutes later "Ooops, I didn't have it in 4-wheel drive"

[@Alexpickups]

It wasn’t even the same vehicle though???

[@chir0pter]

Think he was just a little amped up. Clearly they got a lot of vitriol over the course of years by showing up Subaru fanboys

[@Sirgromulus]

Impressed that you read and took viewers comments to heart for this review. Kudos Roman!

[@davidwatson6599]

THIS is exactly why I own a 2012 3.6R with a 5 speed true automatic. My car would pull up this thing like it's nothing. I think Subaru made a mistake when they went CVT only in 2013.

[@JS-ls8oj]

2015 is when they first used the CVT on the 3.6R , you can still get 5 speed auto with 2013.

[@AnIdiotwithaSubaru]

The CVT used with the 3.6 is the "HCVT" TR690 which is a much stronger transmission than the TR580 used with the 2.5 Outback. Its actually really nice transmission. The TR690 is strong, responsive, and it will shift torque harder. The TR580 is basically a Crosstrek transmission

[@Mr.Beastforpresident]

So ( all ) new Subarus have CVTs? This is shit if so

[@MacTechG4]

CVT sucks

[@AnIdiotwithaSubaru]

@@MacTechG4 I would have agreed with you before I tried this transmission but it's pretty damn good. It's only the one on the 3.6R/XT models

[@twowheelsdown2002]

I have made similar hills in my 2015 2.5 Forester. Traction control tries to kill engine power to keep traction, so I turn it off. The system will still sense a spinning wheel and stop it to drive one with traction. I have climbed over water bars at an angle and had opposing corner wheels lifted, and still it made it. For a 32mpg vehicle with passenger tires it equates itself pretty well, considering that the truck with off road tires couldn't make it until you engaged the locker.

[@MikeWrenches]

I noticed in one of the interior shots that you're doing it with the transmission in D. This really should be done in 1 or L. Telling a CVT to stay on it's lowest ratio is a lot more important than with a fixed ratio transmission.

[@jshepherd9359]

This wont change the gear ratio which is what is dragging the RPMs so low that there is just not enough torque. Watch this vid at 7 min mark. You will see that it does not change a thing in power delivery D vs L. This car is not set up properly for this type of off roading. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5O8p4Kfds6qidk

[@irishpride8157]

X mode keeps the car in first gear.

[@swisswuff]

These tests should use standardized tires. Slicks.

[@MacTechG4]

CVT is utterly pathetic, both on or off road, it’s *ONLY* party piece is fuel economy, everything else sucks.

[@zerocool098]

just accept that subaru is pathetic these days, so much denial here

[@GrumpyF0X]

As an avid Outback fan, I'll definitely agree, it's a "wagon" first that has the ability to go off road if you want to. But it's meant for trails, mud, even shallow rivers. I've also heard that the CVT and Symmetrical All Wheel Drive system are plenty capable, but the computer system is what tends to hold the car back. Weirdly enough.

[@JA-rn5qv]

Because CVT's a prone to damage in those situations and CVT replacement is not cheap, not even at factory cost under warranty, thus Subaru (knowing it's customer habits) has programmed the computer for an extra layer of protection of that CVT even though it means reducing the cars capabilities.

[@zachsteele6964]

@@JA-rn5qv reducing? You mean making it completely useless?

[@jcapen1]

It's silly to think that you are going to tackle the Rubicon with a Subaru from the show room floor. With that said my wife's next vehicle will be a Subaru Forester. It's a great vehicle for daily life and occasional mild adventure. Such as taking kayaks up a dirt road to a mountain lake or a safe drive to the ski hill in bad weather. The lack of power to the wheels when it can't get traction is for me a plus. That's what keeps its CVT dependable and from destroying itself vs. say the Nissan CVT. Thanks for the great content you guys put out.

[@edwardjski]

This is a helpful comment. Finding the limit is one thing but this video sort of leaves one with the impression the Outback is utterly incapable.

[@mikapete7576]

this confirms to me that they should have updated the old 4 speed, and not gone cvt

[@volvo850rex]

It’s a soft off roader. No doubt about it. Had an Outback for last 4.5 yrs. Loved it in the snow. It ain’t no Jeep though. Good follow up review

[@niuhuskieguy]

The Jeep CUVs are good, but even they have their limitations. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIileaiGebeUprM

[@JP-kb4yi]

This video says quite differently. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIicgHVmg6aFms0

[@moto_rad]

Get a manual and keep T/C off.

[@JP-kb4yi]

Richard Goins watched the video you linked and this video auto played. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJOwc2xtnpKLnJY I’m guessing we could trade videos all day. I live near Bennett Springs MO I take my 18 Outback down trails worse then this to go camping. I always love the look on my friends face when I pull up in my Outback. They are always so amazed a station wagon can make it where there Jeeps and trucks can go. I have 3 Subaru’s! 98 Forester (my first car over 300k still running but I’ve retired her from anything more then groceries) a 18 Outback and 18 Legacy. Only thing I’ve changed from stock on all 3 of my Subaru’s is the tires. I think what we are seeing is a combination of tires and the driver knowing how to use the automobile. Put me in a 4x4 and I get stuck. I’m the first to admit I suck at 4x4 anything. Put me in my Forester or Outback and I’m good to go. I will say my 98 Forester is WAY better then my 18’s. My 98 is a tank and the 18s feel breakable compared to my 98 but two definitely capable.

[@haydenb8853]

I took a huge hill in my 3.6 outback in some deep sand, ate up a 1500 with bfg mud terrains, as well as a geo tracker

[@alliejr]

Good exhibition of 4WD vs. AWD. Yes, the Subaru is a soft roader. No shame in that. In snowy New England it rocks.

[@justinhardt1]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYXMiXmegqibma8 Like this?

[@madott]

"In snowy New England it rocks" Shouldnt it snow? :D

[@bongodave13]

They nailed it. It can do easy dirt roads, but it's not as dedicated an off-roader as a real one. It's a more a car than an SUV, so if your off-roading isn't that challenging (and it usually isn't, here in the flat lands), it's great. As good in the snow as anything, until it's deep enough to hang up the car. DAMHIK.

[@oguzhaneren]

Here actually we are not discussing if Subaru is off-roader or not. Everybody knows that Subaru is not a hard-offroader like a Merc. G-Wagon or Land Rover Defender etc. The problem is that Subaru, in this video, is suffering A LOT compared to other soft-roader vehicles like Volvo XC40 and etc.

[@deeheych1101]

more like open diff vs solid axle. to be fair the subaru should have had the optional rear 1.5 diff

[@toyotaalltheway1]

I am glad you guys continue to test soft roaders. It is really nice for those of us who off road once a month and don't want to put up with an off roader for the rest of the time. My 2013 rav4 can make it up stage 3 btw.

[@SuperSnallygaster]

What it lacks in off-road ability, it makes up in love and tolerance.

[@sking2173]

LOLOLOL ...

[@MrPAULONEAL]

Just like today's generation...

[@hiker0100]

Former Subaru Forester owner here. One of the few KZbin comments to make me genuinely burst out laughing.

[@BBTyrant]

I own a Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru outback, I'm very surprised at the things I can get the Subaru through and 90% of the time it's just finding the right line to take. That being said I don't treat it like the jeep and take it on black rated off-road trails. But it can get us down an nasty dirty road out into the desert when I don't want to spend massive amounts of $$$ on gas for the jeep lol.

[@mikldude9376]

The problem is that it is a soft roader , if you punished the transmission like that too often , you would be asking for trouble , and on this particular test it had one light weight guy sitting it. Load it up and do the test again , and it is a fair bet it would have failed.

[@BBTyrant]

@BlueElk As someone who owns a Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru Outback if you say jeep is a solid offroader then I'd have to call my suby a soft roader, nothing wrong with that. 90% of the time it's the driver who understands what line to pick in different situations. Not sure why everyone's up in arms about it being called a soft roader, it's still fantastic in mud and snow and dirt.

[@porsche558]

mikldude I’m not sure how being a “soft roader” is a problem. Everybody spends more than 80% of their time driving on the road. I’ve never heard of anyone who had to commute to work by crossing a desert or rock crawling up a mountain. I’d rather spend my time in a comfortable, safe, and quiet vehicle while on the road. I love these comments that are completely illogical.

[@lanceguilin]

exactly. I took my 2016 Forester on the 100 mile White Rim Trail in Canyonland NP. Did it in one day -- no camping overnight. Had many others with 4Runners totally surprised that I was able to do the full trail with a CVT Forester. They were totally amazed. I'm amazed what the Forester is capable of. They should have given the Outback in this video a set of ATV tires. The all season tires equipped on the Outback was a huge deficit for this kind of a climb.

[@michaelking42]

That's funny I've also got a wrangler, and I just bought the missus an '18 Outback. The kids used to want to ride in the Jeep every day, now it's the Subie...ouch.

[@philtrumble]

I genuinely hope Subaru is watching and they do come maybe it will strengthen the bond between your brand and theirs.

[@bextar6365]

No one should buy one of off-roading ever !Use for on-roading,or buy a Jeep.

[@Tsxtasy1]

Same. As someone who owns a 09 Wrx and 15 fxt... I’m not buying another Subaru unless they stop softening their cars. I would love to see Subaru copy the Toyota cvt and put an actual gear for low speed take offs, then send you a car to test

[@JP-kb4yi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIicgHVmg6aFms0

[@JP-kb4yi]

These guys are the ones that violated their contract. Furthermore they can’t drive and Subaru is well aware of these facts. Subaru owes them nothing and if you watch the attached video you will see that Roman is lying through his teeth and there is nothing wrong with the cvt. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIicgHVmg6aFms0

[@Tsxtasy1]

JP no offense, but I own a 15fxt, brother owns a 15 wrx. Neither car will get off the line hard, the reason is well documented (cvt belt binds up at low ratios). The Wrx is an awd sports car that can’t launch. In both cars you can feel the ecu cut power when floored from a dead stop. I’ll repeat that, you can feel it in the butt dyno. Subaru needs to fix this.

[@intrepid5592]

Just when the Subaru starts to climb, he stops....

[@TheOriginalCoke]

10:32 Tommy: "Come on car." Car: responds Tommy: "Oh it's really working."

[@chir0pter]

because they skirted the obstacle lol. They didn't do the 2 wheel slip due to hole line when the Subie 'worked'

[@palebeachbum]

The achilles heel with the Outback is that CVT. Throttle input is reduced electronically to reduce strain on the transmission. I experienced this with a Versa CVT on a slippery hill in the winter. The engine cut the power to keep the wheels from spinning, even with the traction control switched off.

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

It was just trying to commit suicide after realizing it's a Nissan Versa

[@palebeachbum]

@@iHaveTheDocuments Yep. It was a self-destructive car for sure. Total turd.

[@JonathanRhodesLee]

I had a Nissan Altima with a CVT in Chicago. If you got stuck in a parking lot with snow, it was a nightmare. Men pushing the back of the car, yelling “Give it more gas!” And me whimpering “It’s floored.” Never a CVT again. Never.

[@charlesbecker5829]

CVT + Low Power + the outback is a hefty girl.

[@kartboarder22g17]

I know Toyota SUVs suck at off road, but I heard Toyota was moving to a starting gear for their CVTs, if Subaru did the same would this not help in this situation if CVT is really the Achilles heel? So basically how Toyota does it is they have a standard CVT and then they have a gear that drops in just for take off purposes once its ready to go into CVT action where pulleys adjust the gear is lifted away. If Subaru did this then they would basically be haveing a traditional transmission with 1 gear. Braking traction control like what is being done in the subaru robs power vs. a locker, plus you have elevation robbing power, plus I wouldn't go to your extreme with this type of car either. I think some offroading sure, but I agree this is too much for this vehicle.

[@willberham]

Learned two things here. 1. Everyone's a damn critic 2. Buy a 6 speed manual subaru

[@lllowelll]

Ive seen lots of 1st and 2nd gen foresters here in manitoba climb snowy hills where jeeps slide down. Pathetic cvt.

[@claudyfocan731]

We have one, the last gen that came with a six speed 2.0l

[@mdashcube2476]

Nick Bradshaw they just hate Subaru that’s all.... Leggie fan and I will forever will be. After all I love the 6-star brand. rumble rumble.....

[@ascpgh1]

Holding onto an '08 Outback MT for this reason

[@dylandog5063]

+Nick Bradshaw - I learned not to see videos of "The Fast Lane Car", and not to believe nothing of what these liars and obvious Subaru haters say. I have seen 2018 (and whichever other year) Subaru Outback's climb and pass through much harder obstacles than the one in this shameful anti-Subaru propaganda video.

[@user-re8xu2pj5q]

Still you guys didn’t do Traction Off, XMode On.

[@Karnakthemagnificent]

They don't get it....I was thinking that too. They are not using the right settings.

[@chanceym6000]

That was done in the first video I believe

[@chir0pter]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZvQep6bZZZ-p6c they did

[@drivewayhero]

How bout: trade in CVT Subaru that is falsely advertised for a capable off-terrain vehicle if that's what you need. Subaru is just a grocery hauler now masquerading as an off-terrain car

[@EvrttGrn]

Thank you for keeping an open mind and redoing the vid. I do some off roading both in my '02 Outback and my lifted F-150. I don't consider either good for rock climbing or severe off road. That being said, Driving line is key in most situations.

[@JonDZ_Adventuring]

Good job getting that Outback up that hill. To make the tires spin, of course have traction control off, but also hit the shifter into “M” by flicking it “left” from drive. Then you can lock in the first gear ratio and it won’t try to up shift, it will let the tires spin. That Nissan Titan had a hell of a time getting up Gold Mine hill. If it wasn’t for that rear locker, It didn’t look like it would make it. But only the top, or near top of the line trucks have lockers. So 75-90% of 4x4 trucks out there don’t have lockers. Let’s say only 30% of trucks out on the road are 4x4. That’s not a lot of trucks out there climbing this hill! The cheapest Impreza has the same Subaru AWD system. They might not all have Xmode, but you’ve just proved it isn’t needed. Thanks for the Retry guys!!! I might be critical of TFL on rare occasions but not disrespectful. I appreciate their work and I’m a long time subscriber. Thanks TFL!

[@MK-yv7ng]

This guy knows what he's talking about! To the TFL crew, thanks for giving this a second shot.

[@Deeboskim]

Well said!

[@sugarnads]

Id have a go at that with my 03 pathfinder in 2wd, and Im not what id call a serious dedicated offroader.

[@EricLS]

Yeah, a modern AWD will blow away a classic 4WD transfer case to open diffs any day of the week. Mainly do to spinning wheel braking (see jeep renegade) and variable tourque. But if you *have* the lockers with a 4WD, it's all over. Not even CLOSE.

[@JonDZ_Adventuring]

Eric Swenson I can’t argue there. You have to have some serious 💰 💰 💰 to get a modern truck with lockers. They don’t offer them on the low or mid trims.

[@jefflambert7513]

That was interesting, thanks. I'm on my 2nd Outback and just recently bought the 2019 2.5L. It was a little disappointing to see it struggle like it did. Seems the CVT couldn't output enough where it needed to. Although I don't do off roading, it's good to know the limitations. That being said they handle winter driving nicely. Thanks again !!

[@michaels5691]

My Outback has the H6 in it and I've had it on two wheels many times and it climbs right through with no problem (20% grade). Of course I have the five speed automatic transmission and I keep traction control turned "on" (no XMode in my year). But I'm glad to see you trying suggestions from your viewers.

[@wvusmc]

I'd like to see how the old Subaru traditional 4x4's from the 80's would do on those trails.

[@johnklinger943]

I have a 1988 DL and it would CRUSH this test

[@fredbrackely]

Oh it would kill a modern one. I remember when they were sold as farm implements because there were no dealerships. They had low range and a proper transfer case.

[@westroop6342]

Even my 2k would make short work. All utility

[@TheSingleTrucker]

In '82, we test drove a subaru 4x4, steep did not slow it down.

[@A11ium]

Trust me. It is that power limit on the CVT cars that is the problem. Old cars doesn't have that.

[@ballisonfargo]

I would love to see this test done with one of the older Subarus that had a conventional AT and mechanical limited slip diffs.

[@marcinbinkowski1118]

Mechanical LSD was way better.

[@georgisgarage]

exactly....also a forester would be better with the shorter wheel base

[@willywantoknow2563]

Just get someone driving who doesn't treat it like a bad infomercial

[@evanjackson745]

Had a lifted GL years ago, during the primo USMB days. Times have changed 😒 Don't like these CVTs but the MPGs are appreciated.

[@user-nc9ct6ky3z]

FS5 2.0L no turbo!

[@jakegolliher2891]

I love the 'it worked hard to do it'. It looked pretty easy once he took the right line.

[@louisrovegno542]

Those guys: "We're rooting for the car." Also those guys: make all kinds of excuses and caveats when the car succeeds.

[@citizendc9]

"Do you think it was cutting power ?" It was definitely cutting tremendous amount of power. It seemed like the car went into a safety mode. All power was being cut at times and then suddently it would decide to move and then do nothing and then move. An interesting test would be to try a manual transmission. I'd bet a few dollars that it would perform much better (also with transaction off and X mode off).

[@pixure]

yeah, my 2009 manual diesel outback would do alot better than this subie.

[@baetsimpson]

It didn't look like it was cutting too much power, just it didn't have traction. I think putting it in "L" would have worked wonders, the CVT would benefit more from it than an A/T. Also, with the right settings, I think this would do better than the manual Outback. It has tourqe vectoring and you don't need to deal with the manual transmission. Not to say the manual Outback wouldn't be able to do a good job.

[@marlong.4993]

The 2019 Forester has new x-mode option that allows the wheels to spin when clawing for traction rather than just cutting the power.

[@marksandstrom4248]

I've had my '17 Forester XT in X-Mode stuck in the snow on all four wheels, and it acted like all 4 wheels were locked and the engine just growled with zero motion. I forgot to try TC Off, next time

[@jaydee6035]

Lets admit CVTs are not for offroad. Its for fuel economy side. I have a dual range transmission on my impreza its capable on dirt road. I bet it can perform better than CVTs.

[@hbjtf]

I love my Outback and how it performs in rain and snow on hard surfaces, including most forest service roads. I wouldn’t consider rock crawling as a staple

[@nicholasalawine3796]

Lol this is not rock crawling though.

[@RobertMauro]

As you noted in your roller test, what wheels have what types of traction affect the system. I've never experienced the difficulty you have, but that's largely because I run some beefy all terrains. Though they're stock circumference and width, they're near bordering on off roads - at least as close as all terrains do (Kumho Road Ventures). I almost had to yank a 4x4 out of a stuck spot in sand last month with my Subaru Ascent, because he was running street tires and I was cruising by on my beefy all terrains.

[@GGMan]

Better review and explanation, on what Subaru is currently for. I didn't purchase mine for going off road. I bought it for country dirt roads and winter time, for those (UK) roads that don't get gritted etc. Am I correct in saying, that for permanent AWD, this has the best MPG? I bought the XV/Crosstreck, as it was the cheapest permanently AWD system and Android auto (so I could use Waze/Google Maps). Look forward to you testing it in the snow.

[@JacanaProductions]

I don't see the point of the Crosstreck vs say an impreza - they are more expensive to lease and sorry but they look funny - of course this goes against 99% of public opinion because they sell a shite load here in Colorado - what am I missing ????

[@elevated2552]

Can’t go deep or long....me either bud.

[@michaelking42]

Nice video reviews on the Outback! I just bought a 2018 model, it is my 6th Subaru. It is such a shame they are moving away from the manual versions, as they did years ago when they offered a manual 4WD with dual range. Put a set of offroad tires on those and they performed incredibly well off road. I miss the manual 4WD selector.

[@TheRedRockerHimself]

I think I enjoy watching these kind of tests as much as anybody, where vehicles that aren't really meant to things get asked an awful lot of them, but they really hit cars in general on the nose at the end; if you want a vehicle to do something well, build for it. One change to "X" can cause a string of changes to Y, Z, and then back to W. Everything is a compromise in "stock" form.

[@heresdamian]

At least for the 2.5, it seems like Subaru is more concerned about preventing damage to the drivetrain rather than allowing full output capability. I have the 3.6 and it comes with a high-torque CVT. When I turn off traction control via the button on left of steering column, I'm able to get more RPMs in low/no traction situations vs this specific 2.5. It seems to be programming problem on Subaru's part. I say 3.6R all the way!

[@TheKrisBunch]

heresdamian love my 3.6R

[@tjl8884]

CVTS have garbage torque.. Torque is the low end power to the wheels that is needed for low speed situations when the tires spin. I think any company that uses Cvt will not see my money..

[@heresdamian]

@@tjl8884 No doubt you don't buy a CVT if you're looking for torque, but if you want one of the smoothest drive trains without a 10-speed auto, CVT is the way to go.

[@yoyodyne33]

Just got a letter in the mail the other day from Subaru stating our 2.5 Ouback CVT is now covered for 100,000K miles. I've read rumblings about how the CVT wasn't quite ready for the road, but now it seems as they're admitting it.

[@heresdamian]

@@yoyodyne33 Same here for my 3.6. As soon as I pay it off, I'm looking to trade it in, probably for a Toyota Sienna.

[@hallkbrdz]

For this application with an non-manual transmission, the best system Subaru had was the VTD system used with the 4EAT in the WRX and 5EAT found in the Outback XT, Outback 3.0R, and Legacy GT. Of course they also had a rear LSD so that both rear wheels would turn. However, the WRX STI not only has the DCCD system which has better power distribution control than the VTD system, it also has a front LSD as well as the rear LSD - so overall it would be the best transmission for 1-2 wheel traction surfaces. Bottom line, mechanical all wheel drive systems beat computerized "send power to wheels with traction" systems for slow and difficult (1-2 wheel) traction situations. Fancy electronic systems with whatever type of gear/non-gear transmission are better for wet or icy roads and allow for better fuel mileage. Choose one for what you want/need to do.

[@raystafarifpv4951]

5EAT also found in early Outback 3.6r =)

[@grahambeech4636]

My 1999 Outback manual with dual range can get in most places, though it does need a lift kit.

[@ThalassTKynn]

Mine was the same. The Outback always had shit approach and departure angles compared to the Forrester.

[@tbrown8721]

Great video, I love TFLC, you all do a fine job. I'd love to come ride Gold Mine Hill someday as well.

[@sarrum7696]

TFL deserves a big round of applause for this. They heard what people were saying and were man enough to try it again. And they showed the results even when it made it up. That was great!

[@hunglukenguyen]

They need to put off road tires on the Subaru

[@michaeldejong4511]

Just checking here... The Titan needed to have the diff locked to get up the 'Hard' line, and you had it in 4lo? Did you at least try it in 4Hi? Does this not mean that all of the vehicles that made it with 'mere' AWD are actually quite impressive compared to a true 4X4 that needed to have the diff locked? What about all of the 4X4 trucks that don't come with a locker? I am fully aware (after owning 10 different Subarus) that a 4X4 with proper ground clearance, locking diffs, etc is going to go places a Subaru can't. But c'mon. A crossover (by definition) is not in the same class - if they can do any of these things with reasonable confidence, they are fulfilling their purpose. One more note: the bit in the manual about X-Mode helping with hills and such is no doubt referring to situations where there is low grip, not completely uneven surfaces. Think of a snow-covered hill that is not completely rutted out. Or refer to the pictures in their advertising - they don't show it tackling situations like the Goldmine stage 3 'hard' route.

[@robcuster6772]

The Titan requires 4-Lo to engage the Diff Lock. They didn't address it in the video, because apparently Dad didn't know that.

[@danecrandall]

I think they did address it. Last time they did it in 4 low with the diff lock and this time they were trying it in 4 high.

[@2W3X4YZ5]

Pretty sure the CX-9 fell short for the same reasons. Recommend turning off trac control and engaging sport mode when off road. I dont think it would slip as much as it did before.

[@deantreloar]

You guys are great! This was far more comprehensive than other "today we're gonna look at an apple and a beer can" comparisons.

[@pfranze1]

I have a 2013 and I have done that hill twice... with no issues. line selection is key

[@jackrandom4893]

Where is this Hill located?

[@leesonneville1817]

2013 is a different car. Different generation, different software and conputer controls and totally different transmission

[@joshc606]

I completely agree..... I remember those old Subaru videos with the rollers to show how good there awd is. Those days are gone haha. But for on road they are great.

[@sbodi4d]

their!!!

[@marcoprimo2979]

Josh C not great on the road either. All hype and marketing..

[@FirePoo]

*their

[@harrykirk7415]

One very funny thing to me about all wheel drive vehicle videos is how few of the makers and experts bother to measure the % grade along the test route at the critical points and anywhere, even crudely, which is incredibly easy to do - just takes a couple of minutes . Now you can't say it doesn't matter because that's up to the viewer of the video , not the producer. Just provide the information , and let them decide that. It's basically impossible to determine grade from looking at a video and incredibly easy to do when you're there doing the testing.. I asked the maker of one video what the % grade was, and they responded 12%, probably because they heard somewhere that 12% was a steep road somewhere I know he didn't know, because if the route he was demonstrating his vehicles on were really that flat then all his vehicles sucked worse than 2 wheel drive Celicas. It's weird. People report horse power and rpms and all this complex mechanical stuff, but they leave out the basics.

[@jimbuckley4986]

Excellent demo. Happy with the Outback results. It’s a great all around vehicle. If truly going off road without major anything, will stack my Tacoma TRD Offroad against other street driving cars. Good demo and subscribed

[@0HOON0]

Subarus were more capable back when they had torque converters.

[@repairvehicle]

CVT transmissions have torque converterters. What are you talking about.

[@dufonrafal]

it has a torque converter, I think that the transmission is not the issue, it can slip all day long and has enough torque.

[@777lukasz9]

"Subarus were more capable back when they had 4 speed automatic transmissions." is more accurate and its true. The 4 speed automatics were jatco transmissions that were shared with infinity qx4 trucks.

[@777lukasz9]

Transmission is the issue because the 4 speed automatics didn't have this issue.

[@ParasiteQueen1]

The '97 Outback Legacy I drive is 4-Speed.

[@halflife103]

Id like to see a 2000 Subaru do this. Outback, Forester Impreza. Would be interesting.

[@sparklygames71]

An 04 outback would destroy this trail

[@yamahschector]

@@sparklygames71 I agree. Our 04 H6 feels strong and simple tires it does just fine on off-road areas I have been on.

[@sparklygames71]

@@yamahschector yeah my 2.5 would fly through just about anything with the right tires, like this winter they weren't able to plow the roads and there was about a foot and half to two feet of snow and mine just plowed right through, even with mud underneath.

[@JoyCh155]

My 01 2.5 outback would eat this if I had good tires poor college student life

[@lifeisgood070]

Had zero issues with an 07 outback stick. Went places my tacoma even got stuck.

[@stamy74]

In Europe you could buy it (until mid 2018) with diesel engine and manual gearbox. That would really make a difference.

[@Belmont148]

Very cool that you all went back and did this. I own a GX460 and a 3.6R Outback. Both for very different purposes. The Outback is for rough weather and dirt road campground trails for Mt. biking and camping. The Lexus is for towing and if I never need a true offroader.

[@EddieAtTheMorgue]

It’s a soft roader, and it’s marketed as such. It’s not marketed as a serious off-roader, despite what many people keep claiming. If you think those pictures of rutty former logging roads are “serious” trails, then Subaru isn’t the problem.

[@shawntarlo]

I have A 2017 WRX and my wife has a 2016 Outback. It's a freaking fantastic family car, which in reality will spend 99% of it's life ON road. It's certainly capable of some light trails to camp sites, is great in the snow, and it's SAFE. As much as I like it these results don't shock me at all, I recognize it's purpose and it's not to tackle 4x4 trails, especially with a CVT. Get a Jeep (insert other real 4x4 here) if you want to do real offroading.

[@carminedauria-gupta2561]

Shawn Tarlo that’s exactly what they said in the video lol

[@shawntarlo]

@@carminedauria-gupta2561can't lie I skimmed at lunch...

[@EricLS]

The thing is, a whooooole bunch of competing crossovers blow subaru away in this test. That's the irony of the whole thing. A brand who's entire image, *for nearly it's entire history*, is tough conditions prowess, and yet they fall down in the tougher tests that a lot of other crossovers can handle. This is a very cheap crossover, but it's not like the off road gets better in the more expensive subarus.

[@ng-dq6pd]

Shawn Tarlo damn it can hit 115 with your 4 boyfriends inside. Impressive.

[@DocHolliday3841]

I have a 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel w/ custom suspension system, 37" tires & engine tune that is a rock crawler & can also have high speed fun here in the Arizona desert. However I also have a stock 2013 outback & we take it camping, it's definitely capable enough for regular trails. Very fuel efficient too

[@hueypilot1950]

This is my favorite kind of video, side by side comparison, real world conditions. My wife has an outback, so that adds relevance for me, against what I did off road with my 1976 Cherokee. What still bothers me is the weak explanations Suburu puts out to explain the two buttons. One defaults to on, one defaults to off, which does which for what? I am still confused. You guys tried to help me with that. Thanks, but still not clear to me.

[@williamtrainor1430]

We bought our 4th Subaru, a 2015 Outback, in Colorado11/2014 essentially the same as your test vehicle. The first thing we did is take it up Pikes Peak, and I backed it into a 10" snowbank and lost power. I was surprised and disappointed, but still in "baby it" mode at less than 100 miles. I did some minor tests with similar results shortly thereafter. Not impressed. When we passed 5000 miles there was a noticeable and significant change, transforming her into the best off road Subaru we have had. Much more power, and the CVT didn't seem to bog down. I researched, and even contacted Subaru, but was unable to find a reason for this. We STRONGLY believe there was a "break in" power inhibitor of some kind holding her back until the "switch was flipped" at 5000 miles. Your video reminded me of this. Does yours by chance have fewer than 5000 miles? If so, can you play with her again after she is broken in? LOVED your video!

[@yal100]

This, 1000 times this. Subarus have a break in period. Ive experience it on my 05 and im experiencing it again in my '18. I remember when I first got my 05 I was smelling that center diff for almost two years every time I worked it in snow or rain, until it broke in.

[@afrocoolio25]

Many engines have break-in periods, it is not just Subarus.

[@MrRichieCZ]

Okay... You are talking about standard maitenance of any car...

[@rkr894able]

Oh, I'm not a fan of CVT nor anyonen, yet I was still planning to get an Outback 2016-2017 as I do road trips to explore but after watching this and got knowledge about Suburu isnt being so cooperative due to the fact of TLF being righteous and still careless and doing bad advertising on there website that I've come to conclusion, I will buy either Cr-v, Rdx/MDX as I currently own an Acura 2012 and I love its handling.

[@bobbred128]

You guys are awesome. I love watching your videos.

[@MADBONE0]

Love my 4EAT OUTBACK .. center diff lock Goes up stage 3 with a little momentum

[@mediocrehat]

I own this car and live near this hill. I climbed it no problem. This hill isn’t hard and you could probably tackle it in a Camry, though I suspect these guys would struggle to get up it in a Rubicon with their intriguing “hit the brakes whenever you move, then saw randomly back and forth with the wheel while yelling,” tactic. But hey, I’m not really an off-road enthusiast, maybe that’s super effective in some other vehicle. I personally prefer to just drive up the hill though. Seems easier. I like that when he needs to pull forward to move the camera suddenly the same thing he was “struggling” with is no problem. But I get it, they have some weird vendetta to pursue because they scratched up a press car and Subaru now won’t give them any more. Fight the good fight or whatever. I’ll just continue to go climb the same hills no problem, every day, because I only live out here.

[@punasurf4697]

Just wondering, do you do anything with TC or Xmode?

[@oguzhaneren]

Why didn't you try "VDC off and X-Mode on"? That would be the best setting in that scenario. x-mode maximizes the pressure on the MPT Clutch (MPT is like center diff) and with the max pressure it is like locking it so sending %50 power to the rear. without x-mode, %40 power is sent to back. Also, electronic diff lock (which is simulating diff lock with brakes on free wheel), which is the absolute testing item here, works faster with x-mode on. So, you should have tried VDC off and x-mode on. I hope that some other people with Foresters and/or Outbacks could go there and test this...

[@niuhuskieguy]

The awd system itself wasn't the issue. The computer limiting power while we wheels were trying to spin was.

[@oguzhaneren]

niuhuskieguy actually, turning off VDC “should” solve this. If somebody does “rollers on a steep grade” test, we can better understand the behavior of the car then...

[@Deeboskim]

They tried VDC off and X-Mode on in the last video and combined with the line they took it didn't work. Might have made it had they took the straight line like they did in this video, but I still think X-Mode might cut too much power when you need it. Also it's important to note that the newer Subarus don't do well with two diagonal wheels off the ground and or not getting traction and the front wheels turned too much.

[@oguzhaneren]

dustin boone x-mode does not cut power, instead it uses lowest gear ratio in CVT to make sure max torque is transferred to the wheels. So, x mode trying to simulate low range gear with this. Also, x mode transfers more torque to the rear wheels with more pressure on the MPT clutch. With x mode, torque dist is %50-50, without x mode, it is %60 front %40 rear and constantly changing between %90 front %10 rear to %50-50 Also with x mode, torque converter does not lock up in lower speeds which allows better and smoothier throttle control. Also with x mode, electronic diff lock behavior is different. Braking force on the free wheel is applied far more before than xmode off.. So, all in all, this test is all about electronic diff lock which is far more better with xmode but xmode has not been used in this test :( Please somebody find two rollers, place them diagonally on a STEEP street and test a subaru on them, with 4 different traction options: vdc off/on; xmode off/on Everybody knows that diagonal roller tests are piece of cake for today’s awd cars when the test is done on flat surface. However, when it comes to steep grade, all math changes, all load changes... so, to understand if the Subaru makes really nice working electronic diff or not, make a diagonal test on a steep climb, and we’ll all see then...

[@Deeboskim]

By "cutting power" I meant it is using electronics to brake what the system(s) is sensing as a wheel with limited traction, however sometimes it can be overactive and take away momentum in situations when more wheel spin can actually be beneficial. The original and current generation X-mode seems to be more geared toward icy situations and safety, so that the vehicle doesn't slide off the road and not that great for actual "off roading", even though Subaru kind of tries to market it that way. From what I've heard the new generation of Forester has multiple X-mode settings including one for deep snow and mud, which will allow for more wheel spin and probably help in certain situations like this one. Anyway I see your point with using the roller test as it is a controlled test where you can do a fair and accurate comparison to other vehicles. These real life situation videos are fun to watch and can be somewhat informative, but there are too many variables involved to do a direct comparison to other vehicles. A more fair comparison if the other vehicle is there the same day, but you still have to try to take the same line and use the same sort of momentum.

[@wesleygamboa2475]

What you did with traction control off and X mode off made Subaru invent or make the X2 Mode, which allows for wheels to spin. Good job 👍🏻

[@yamahschector]

Our dealer said traction control off shift manual into 2nd for tougher situations or stuck in snow. I have no idea though. I have never took our 18 crosstrek anywhere fun yet.

[@andreasgauckler3152]

I had 2 Subaru Forester in a row and I always was happy with the "Offroad" capability, however I agree it's not a dedicated offroader. The biggest issue beside the CVT (mine had a manual and the second one the old type automatic) are the tires. Put good offroad tires on and it will go much further.

[@havespacesuitwilltravel9607]

Seems like the Subaru did exactly what it was designed to do. Keep in mind, it is a station-wagon.

[@adeyzas]

It design for cross country not for extreme off road .

[@MrThumper1440]

Cross country grocery getter.....still does great. They have their niche and fit it well.

[@richardmckinnon8791]

Time for offroad tires not Street tires

[@LarryGanz]

Good job - I also thought that no X-mode and no TC would get it through there.

[@MyMonkeyMinions]

I just got a 2015 2.5i outback. I'm a stay-at-home mom that owns a piece of land in the high mountains of New Mexico. Well, I took my kiddos out to go check on the land and I made the wrong turn while I was busy singing to a musical of some sort. I, of course, realized it was a wrong turn when the loose rocks and dirt began slipping down a large cliff. No place to turn around for a few miles and I was terrified. Xmode was turned on and I no longer felt fear. My car was perfect. SO many steep hills like the ones in the video and we made it up! On the way down I used hill descent and it took care of us again. My husband was so glad he got us that car because I really don't think my Odyssey would have handled that steep and scary road.

[@user-xk3ip6wd1z]

Same story when I had a '12 Forester. It had decent traction but with no low range and a lack of torque it just didn't have the power to get over much of anything.

[@tklatt13]

I drove my Subaru over 300 miles on one tank of gas to watch this review in person. Would have gotten there sooner but the Titan needed a fill up.

[@cocoyc495]

For your next subaru video - Can you put a golden retriever in the driver's seat and see if it can go around the block?

[@paraqueirodon]

The anti-subaru channel

[@brandonjbehringer]

This video reminds me of any time I'd try to do something with my Dad that we both knew a lot about when I was like 12, but poor Tommy is like 22.

[@samd1405]

Poor Tommy is probably making a butt ton of money off these awkward videos with his dad.

[@stupidburp]

The Limited models have a simulated manual mode that lets you lock the CVT in into fixed gear ratios. I used it in my Outback to get it out of a foot of snow from a stop while climbing up a hill using the stock all season tires.

[@goldleader2804]

I like my 2019 outback. Don't mind the CVT for daily driving either. I don't understand all the hate this car gets on this channel. I mean it gets me to all my camp sites just fine when all my friends have f250s, wranglers, Silverados etc. I don't plan on rock climbing or going super off-road with it. If I wanted that I would've gone a different route.

[@jtpf87]

The son is soooooo geeky lol, he is geek personified, I love it!

[@AIDANPEREIRA]

subaru giving a cvt on such a good awd system is like hiring usain bolt to run a 100m race for you but giving him brand new leather-soled shoes that are a few sizes too tight

[@raffyshammayoam5900]

Hi Guys, Thanks for revisiting the issue. I totally agree it's a softroader. But that's it's space. Absent the marketing outdoorsy hype, it's a really comfortable, great car to drive and it can go almost anywhere, but not everywhere. Think 95% urban, 5% mild offroad. Love your videos!

[@Clickbaiters]

As a Subaru fan, I'm glad this video triggers the fanboys and Subaru corporate as well. Now we know why Subaru won't send TFLT any vehicles, it will just end up as bad advertising. I miss my gen 1 and gen 2 Foresters, they were tanks......minus the exploding head gaskets, rotting fuel filler necks, wheel bearings that lasted no more than 10k miles, leaking cam seals, valve covers, spark plug gasket seals and that special $5 seal in the back of the engine that required you to drop the transmission just to get to it. Oh yea, I forgot about the piston slap you'd hear when you first start up a cold engine. While we are at it, let's not forget the nice rattle the exhaust heat shields would produce which required you to burn off the shields with a torch. But hey, you were great in the snow.

[@406Steven]

I bought into the hype and bought an '04 Legacy years ago and have never had so many problems with a vehicle. It was amazing in the snow and went places offroad that it had no business being (this was before the computer traction control BS took over all new cars) but it was hands-down the most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned. The fact that Subaru got butthurt about the first video and won't loan them cars to test is a real chicken move on their behalf and just goes to show they know their vehicle won't live up to the hype. I swore off owning another one years ago when I traded up to Ford truck and haven't looked back, seeing how they handled this situation plus the lack of constant repairs on my truck strengthen my position that I won't be buying another Subaru again.

[@Redfour5]

I agree on the gen 2 Forester. The early ones were beasts. They towed 2400 lbs and I pulled a 1900 lb pop up for thousands of miles including all over the mountains with my 2004X and 2007 Premium (manual trannys). I still kick myself for not buying the 04 Turbo Forester. Fifteen extra dollars a month. Stupid, stupid stupid. Oh well a road not taken. It was the only one to have the STi motor (detuned). 2005 forward were the uptuned 2.4. The big change occurred in like 2005 when they hired the Marketing guy as CEO. The differences between my 04 and 07 reflect his input I believe. Subaru had been an engineers brand but didn't sell enough vehicles. The Marketing guy addressed that...at the expense of engineering. My 07 Premium was NOT the same vehicle as my 04. Although essentially the same vehicle, The changed the power torque ratio and the steering wheel to wheel turns AND softer springs. I ended up having to put "pinks" springs on the 07 to keep the back end flat on the 07. There was virtually no sag on the 04 with OEM springs. I really noticed the difference between the two on the Eisenhower tunnel run West of Denver. The 04 was a beast running forty in third. The 07 forced me into second at 30 to get up the Eisenhower run. And it didn't like it. The 04 was like give me more. We just got rid of our 2010 Forester X at 105K miles (last of the old auto tranny). It was the most reliable lowest maintenance vehicle I ever owned and still towed 2400 lbs (although we didn't). It was the last and it took us through some rough stuff mostly snow reliably. We now have a 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk with the V6 and a 4500 lb tow rating. We will see on that one particularly reliability. So, now Foresters are simply "me too" SUV's directly competing with the CRV's and Rav4's Mazda blah blahs...that can't tow anything. It does still have a better more rounded "real" all wheel drive system than the others but the distinctions are not there any longer...imho. That's why we went Jeep. I doubt it will be as reliable, but rear lockers, and the V6 will go places towing something no Subaru ever could.

[@bellinghambaseball2]

Can't use momentum is some horse shit. It's a go anywhere vehicle, not a technical marvel. I've seen a Geo Metro go up a trail like that with the right driver....

[@arnellblaster]

We had great experiences with our 2004 Outback, bu we did have the head gasket and bearing issues. Every other problem (and then some) showed up on our 2009 Tribeca that you mentioned. I had one of those not good laughs as you were right on the money. That being said, although there is a place for these Subaru AWD's (they're incredibly capable vehicles), but as with everything... there are truly limits and people should know this. I'm still a fan of the Outback and Forester, but we need channels like TFL to put these vehicles in perspective/context.

[@Slider712]

UnsulliedSpy it's funny everyone has a different opinion of a brand. I went from a Subaru to a brand new Ford F150 and I've had 3 warranty repair issues (faulty waste gate, leaking rear window and a leaking oil pan) in 2 years of owner ship so far and I had to replace the rear brakes after 4000 miles of driving it off the lot because they developed a grinding sound when braking. I'm dying to get back in a Subaru when I'm done with this truck. All the issues I've had have just reaffirmed I'll never buy a Ford again. Compared to my Subaru Impreza WRX that never had a single problem.

[@dpwellman]

But you can't _fully_ turn off VDC nor Traction control without pulling the ABS fuse. I have high hopes for "dual" x-mode. . . we'll see.

[@BelloBudo007]

I really enjoyed the test and in fairness, the Subaru did okay. I recently sold my Toyota Landcruiser which had front and rear lockers, winch, great ground clearance, and was just a super serious 4x4 machine. The thing is that even though I live in the country and my home is down dirt roads and surrounded by excellent trails, my days for doing really serious off-road stuff are over. These days I can get everywhere that I want to go, in my lovely Mitsubishi Pajero. I am currently looking after my friend's Subaru Outback, while he's away overseas, and have to agree with you that it really is a soft off-roader. Capable yes, but none the less limited, as your test shows. IMHO it is damn good on highway and some trails vehicle. It lacks the robustness that the Mitsubishi has, which is reflected in the price. '

[@jesselawrence2091]

I just recently switched from a Forester to an Ascent. I am sure others have mentioned this but I wonder if the CVT in the Ascent/Outback XT (and others) fairs any different. Your original video made me hesitant on the CVT and I am glad i knew what I was getting into. I will say there is something about the CVT compared to the old 4 speed auto in the Forester. I have not had a chance to take it off road but I already know it would not do as well as the 4 AT based on little things I've noticed. There are characteristics with the CVT that makes me second guess the car's ability up a boat ramp (and possibly go offroad).

[@brayhillhouse2049]

I live in Northern NH on a steep narrow gravel road and have a 2014 Subaru Forester with CVT. When there is a winter thaw the thick base of snow turns mealy mush and is a real challenge for the car. In these conditions the car smells like burning after. Do you think that's the CVT?

[@jbivvy420]

Yes, make sure you have winter tires for better grip if you can afford them.

[@wvusmc]

Studded tires all around for my 2008 Forester XT and it goes amazing here in WV with our crappy roads and weather, though its the 4 speed auto. When I test drove a 2015 Forester with the CVT I could immediately tell a difference and I hated it. I wouldn't own a Subaru past 2013.

[@brayhillhouse2049]

Yes, Unfortunately I think the introduction of the CVT was a net negative for Subaru and I'm disappointed. The base model is still available in a standard transmission. Maybe that's the way to go.

[@kylet7627]

Not anymore they are all CVT now

[@jackhsu2758]

The smell is not necessarily the CVT. It's most likely the tires. I get this smell all the time doing long drives in winter conditions and my car has a 6MT.

[@loudring6247]

TFL you guys are awesome I'm loving the content

[@rezlogan4787]

I just saw this now years later! 3 years ago I just got mad and missed your update! Thank you for giving the Outback a fair try.

[@shmddee]

If the vehicle had the a standard transmission like the pre 2019 foresters were available with, then it couldn't cut power like the CVT does? Am I correct?

[@UBAYBE]

should use same. tires to be fair...

[@suemorgan157]

Agree then see if it is the tires or the vehicle

[@colinthompson7463]

They can't be spending $600 on tires every time they review a car. They do that with their long term test vehicles, but it really didn't matter with the Subaru. The transmission wasn't allowing the factory tires to spin, so theres no point in getting better traction.

[@AhmadQ.81]

Take the 2020 XT for another round, thanks for the great reviews.

[@proificle]

2020 outdoor(onyx) xt 2.4 turbo has to be an improvement.

[@mamalovesthebeach437]

Good information ... I have a 2018 3.6 Outback and have done some fairly soft off-roading and it handled beautifully. I don't intend to take it on gnarly trails. At the cost of a Titan I would hope it could take just about anything! I wouldn't have purchased an Outback for serious off-road trails but for what I want it's great. If you want to do rock crawling even the Titan won't do it. My son has an old Sami that he has set up for crawling but his real rock crawler is an old lifted Ford truck ...

[@alexgray2179]

All i watch on youtube is TFL. U guys r awesome!

[@abdulln1439]

I think CVTs have not reached to the level where they can match a traditional transition system offroad. One example, Nissan Pathfinder.

[@TahoeKing]

This is mainly a station wagon with awd for wet/icy roads... It has nothing to do with real off roading

[@williambissell794]

You are exactly right. And it does a great job at what it was designed for.

[@Captain_Brown_Beard]

Fan boys wont agree lololol. If I wanted to off road Id just buy a side by side

[@stepabove2136]

Yeah true but They advertise go anywhere I had one and loved it you have to know your limitations

[@MegaBluebone]

so i take it you dozed off during the section of this video where it clearly shows that subaru was marketing this vehicle doing what it obviously isnt very good at.

[@hemi5.7awdpursuit5]

Tahoe King good point I mean how many drivers would actually everyday day say hey honey let’s start going off road for now on, it should be for extreme snow ice roads

[@frankcosta1932]

I think you're right about the cvt. My 2010 outback with 6speed manual does very well off road. I wish you guys could do a video with a manual transmission outback trying level 3.

[@clintsmitheman6512]

This is why we keep replacing parts on our 05' Outback with over 300k, the older computer system did not limit the amount of torque when traction became an issue. I'm pondering switching to an all terrain tire for summer use, just for better sidewall protection . . . just don't do that much rough dirt road driving versus highway. I've driven this Outback over terrain that was rocky enough that I've broken suspension parts . . . car still drove back home, but traction was never an issue (other some exciting tire spin). Might have to pick a rough road test and see if the new 2018 Outback we have has issues where the old 05 does not.

[@tighehovington4585]

I am curious on how a model without the CVTw would do on the hill.

[@stclair1987]

Tighe Hovington There is no outback without a cvt

[@mitchellclark2786]

I have a 2008 Outback with a 4EAT. It would kill it.

[@polarbear4686]

Like the forester with the turbo?

[@tighehovington4585]

I meant before the CVT came out

[@spencerali1659]

In Canada at least, you could get it with a manual up until last year

[@donmattern2707]

I have a 2018 outback and 2003 outback. The 03 withoutcvt is better off road buy has less ground clearence

[@bravomail123]

xmode turns each wheel in sequence by 1/4 . so in theory it works as locking diff. but bigger issue is tires. u need specialized offroad ones. no awd will save u in a snow without snow tires

[@roman84267]

What type of tires did you have installed on the outback? I just bought my own outback and was curious about what type of A/T tire you would suggest.