2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel: Too much Torque on Ice?

( www.TFLcar.com ) The 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel puts out 420 lb-ft of torque to all four wheels. That's a huge rush of power that can easily break loose even the best of AWD systems with all-season tires on Ice and snow. In another accurate, fun and informative TFLcar Review Nathan drives the Jeep on a snow and Ice covered streets to see just how the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel handles all of that torque when the road turns snowy and icy.
Check us out on:
Facebook: ( / tflcar )
Twitter: ( / tflcar )
and now even Truck Videos on KZbin at:
The Fast Lane Truck ( / tflcar )

[@bena1549]

1:46 “that didn’t go well” lol you floored it on a turn on ice what did you expect 🤣❤️

[@aky19832001]

I've been jeep owner since my teens. I'm now in my 30's and I'm still using jeeps. They've improved significant'y. Price/performance/quality, nothing comes close to it. Readability issues are a thing of the past. I've my share of crappy GC in the past. But when Jeep introduced the Hemi into it's GC, I never regretted it. I personally love the Hemi engine so much that my entire family has a Hemi vehicle ranging from Crysler 300, durango and my self with a GC.

[@courtsm3]

couldn't agree more! Just traded in my Ram 1500 Hemi for a JGC Hemi Summit! 0 zero regrets with the Hemi and the Summit. Amazing machine!

[@Pilot545]

+aky19832001 Thanks for this post! I have a 2015 JGC Hemi Overland and LOVE it! It's my second Jeep (the other was an awesome 92 Wrangler I had while stationed in Korea...only had a 4 banger but it had a lift kit, nerf bars, and big 32 inchers...definitely stood out in Korea lol). I get so tired of seeing people bash Jeeps. Yes, they have had some crappy years, but all in all, they are awesome and continue to just get better! I say, unless somebody owns a late model (2014+ in the case of a JGC) then they don't know what they are talking about.

[@aky19832001]

I've actually Traded in my JGC that has the Hemi for a Toyota 4runner 20115 limited. However, we still drive the Hemi Brand and wont waiver on anything else with respects to power and performance for dollar value. They upgraded to a new Crysler 300C for the older one. Durango still pulls like a beast. And to be honest, Im looking into getting a personal Jeep GC Hemi with low milage for my self. The Toyota is a dream to drive, but I miss that pull and power the hemi had!

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I have the 470HP SRT 6.4. Turning off traction control is like risking your life if your driving rain/snow. I leave it on and simply set the dial to "SNOW" or "TRACK" (when it's dry out).

[@TheYellowSchoolBusDude]

No matter what car you have/awd system, regardless of the torque numbers, if you push it on snow/ice IT'S GOING TO SPIN THE TIRES.....

[@davidblakeman913]

You are right. I drive on and off winter roads all my life 65 yrs. The biggest problem I see is that Jeep and or Ram comes out with way TO WIDE of tires.We used to have 6", 8" wide or less tires. We got around good in snow until it got so deep you got hung up in it. Now with 9" to 11" wide tires one will drive up on top of the snow and sink. You are really stuck then. Tow truck time. when we walk in deep snow we use ssnow shoes to hold us up. Big wide tires do the same thing, only you cannot just walk out. In slush on the highway you have a huge problem sterring my Jeep diesel or anything with wide tires. Very DANGEROUS!!! Wide tires cause many recks and kill lots of people here in mountinous country. In mud the same thing happens except you don't sink for traction. You just slide off the road and over the mountin side you go. Look out below!! I put this in here because I noticed that Jeep all have wider tire than most. Yes this seems to be the fad use tires for SAND. There you want wide tires. Love my Jeep grand cherokee eco diesel. Except they run too cool in winter to utilize the diesel fuel.

[@luisjuarez5563]

I have my 2014 overland diesel and I love it every single day

[@The45Whispers]

I'm looking at them have u had any problems....regrets?...is gas a killer

[@robinyates9426]

my advice to anyone unused to driving in snow or ice,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"engage brain before you start!"

[@1chris311]

I love watching you guys but please whoever edits your video please turn the music down!!! I usually watch either late at night or while im at work and have to constantly adjust the volume so I don't wake my wife or get in trouble at work!!!!

[@dieselmutt8865]

Agreed! Have to turn up the volume to hear them clear when they talk then the music comes on overbearing when the are not talking.

[@kenahenakew8761]

There going to tell there edit worker to lower the volume because you dont want to wake your wife lol

[@BeachJedi101]

Subscribed a few months ago, been a follower of all the car reviewers for a couple years now. You guys are definitely up on my top 3 favorites. Can't believe I was missing out for so long.

[@59chevt]

the loud music sucks, the car is supposed to be the focus.

[@strategicbushcraft6391]

It would be cool if they added the diesel engine option to the Wrangler.

[@Upliftyourbrothers]

Here let me turn the traction control off on an icy road and punch it while turning. Wow, weird it was scary because it spun out. It must be the good torque that makes this bad in snow.... This guy is a bad reviewer.

[@surfjacobson1]

I absolutely love the new Grand Cherokee. Its always been on my list of cars. Here is what I don't get: The 2014 Grand Cherokee 3.6L V6 does 25mpg Highway The 2014 Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel does (up to) 30mpg Highway Understandably its a large vehicle. But with the diesel tech that we have today the best they could do was 5mpg improvement? Gas average is $3.26 per gallon. Diesel is $3.75-$4.18 per gallon For them to better the engine by 5mpg... it hardly deserves an "eco" badge and it shouldn't be marketed that way. By that standard, every single vehicle that has made mileage improvements (as required by U.S law) and continues to do so over the years... can add an "eco" badge to their model simply because they upped it a few mpgs. It seems like auto most makers are doing it little by little keeping the average vehicle behind in fuel technology. While some auto makers (like Toyota, Tesla and finally BMW) are making drastic improvements in this area. For 4-5 grand extra for the ecoDiesel, at the cost of diesel prices, its not being purchased for its "fuel economy" but for its power. if you need more power then this is a great vehicle and I would choose this over other cars in its class for sure.

[@krisl7068]

On paper, without taking anything else into consideration, you're right. But what you didn't take into consideration is the power difference between the diesel and 3.6L V6 or the driveability of diesel engines. With a gas engine, you have to tip toe on the accelerator and hypermile to death to approach the EPA figures, whereas with a diesel you can drive like a mad man and still easily beat EPA numbers. If you're just looking to save money, then the 3.6L is the choice here because it'll take years before you make up the difference in purchase price alone, but if you care about how the vehicle drives then the diesel (or the Hemi) is the way to go.

[@camaroman101]

The problem is you're comparing the Pentastar to the diesel. If you do a lot of towing and want the extra power you're going to cross shop the diesel with the Hemi. So the Hemi gets 22mpg and the diesel gets 30. They could have used a smaller diesel for better mpgs but it would come at the cost of a lower tow rating. Tesla costs 60 grand, Bmws are also out of most peoples reach, and how exactly is Toyota making drastic improvements in fuel technology?

[@surfjacobson1]

I was clearly pointing out that there are companies doing better, not comparing. Toyota just featured there hydrogen fuel cell set for 2015 release.

[@camaroman101]

jacob jacobson Honda also has a fuel cell vehicle for lease in Ca. Other automakers like GM have fuel cell vehicles on the road for research & development purposes too. Do you know how low the production numbers will be? Other automakers aren't releasing them just because of how small of an area in Ca there is with fueling stations. As far as their other vehicles go nothing is really that great in fuel economy except for the Prius. They also have no true EVs for sale except for the mandatory one needed for sale in Ca and it's only available there.

[@krisl7068]

jacob jacobson You can't compare apples to oranges...

[@Boomhauer333]

I would like to see more about this diesel Jeep.

[@rewind48]

This is just a suggestion but you should put a link for any previous videos involving the vehicle tested in the video in the description.

[@uhd4k442]

Beautiful leather interior

[@1guyin10]

The traction control has to be intrusive if it is going to reign in that much torque.

[@ChevyBM]

To drive on snow you need snow tires, I have been driving fullsize body on frame RWD cars all my life and oh boy its fun to slide around!

[@6000MPH]

Great job Nathan. I am considering one of these later this year but am unsure about getting the gas or diesel version. The more info you can provide the more informed of a decision i'll be able to make. Thank you.

[@courtsm3]

can't wait for some snow this winter! My Jeep Wrangler was pretty badass but lacked the smarts that my Summit has. It will be interesting to see the differences

[@nimble33]

Nathan We watched Roman take the Tundra on a road trip. The Jeep would be nice to see on a road trip also. It is nice to see the reviews but sometimes it would be nice to see longer usage review. Thanks again for keeping us informed.

[@XxViciousxX]

Nothing wrong with a little sideways long as no ones around and you can handle it. We got some snow here last night and I had lots of fun in my 97 5.0 AWD Explorer.

[@84bmw325e]

Bought a brand new 2014 Jeep Grand Overland Diesel August 30, 2014 that has been in the shop for four times for a total of 15 days. Shifting problems that the dealership SAID they fixed (still not working properly), Navigation stopped working, air suspension overheats, Radio problems, master window switch broken, glove box rod bent so the glove box didn't lock or close properly, I have it set up when the Jeep is turned off the the steering wheel moves up then when you start the Jeep again it goes back down that only works half the time.

[@vanyok]

Can you "Lemon" it ?

[@mazllumbaraku9576]

Fiyu rk

[@RagingBad]

Jason Ver definitely a lemon

[@XAndrew88]

+Jason Ver LOL

[@dukinygaming259]

We used to own a 2014 and we never had a problem

[@Gold63Beast]

At 2:03 and 3:53 it's definitely same clip. 2:03 being just a shorter clip of 3:53. Lmao that was funny. Nice video and awesome channel guys.

[@simongentry]

so… it’s 2022 now - if you had to choose between a used 2014 summit diesel and a 2018 land rover discovery diesel - for off road purposes - which would you choose?

[@scannerguy1968]

1st thoughts. Bluffs around here where here roads are have two guard rails high. What the heck kind of road was that? Looks like speed bumps for guard rails. 2:47

[@Blankadoodledo]

Love Nathan's reviews!!!!!!!!!

[@gene978]

GO NATHAN GO NATHAN! YES!

[@Steu022]

One thing I think is absolutely funny is that when it comes to snow and ice is the average person is deathly afraid of the stuff and don't have a clue where to start when it comes to preping yourself amd your vehicle. First of all, around the time of year you can start to expect tempuratures to get close to that freezing tempurature, start looking at doing vehicle maintenance, look at your tires and make sure they are rated to handle ice, make sure your breaks have plenty of life left to last the few months of winter, make sure your coolant can withstand the chilly weather, and so on! This is all on the driver/owner to make sure you are safe on the roads.

[@pk509]

Chrysler should put that engine in the Durango.

[@pk509]

True. Thus, Fiat should put that engine in the Durango.

[@stevey500]

My thoughts shared are that the $20,000 less Xterra, lower-end 4runner, etc have just as sophisticated of a traction control system for off-roading/ice/snow driving for safety and capability.

[@sleepersown]

Surely it's personal opinion but, unless you just want a vehicle solely for it's drivetrain, the aesthetics ( inside and out ) of the new JGC vs the vehicles mentioned is worth the price difference.

[@tonyyayo2115]

Such a nice truck but scared off by reliability issues especially with transmission

[@T1Oracle]

The ZF 8 speed is solid. Its the 9 speeds in the 4 cylinder Jeeps that suck. Plenty companies are using the ZF 8 speed, including BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, etc

[@tonyyayo2115]

Will pick one up this year; preferably the Overland Trim

[@T1Oracle]

Tony Yayo I just got my Overland with the gas V6. It's a dream. I love the air suspension, remote start, and heated seats. The GPS is great in quickest route mode, just don't put it in shortest route mode. That mode will waste your time and take you through crazy paths. You only see that setting when you're entering a new route. There's no other way to get to it.

[@tonyyayo2115]

Appreciate the feedback...just love the look and capability of this truck

[@xxxliqu1dxxx]

where is Emme Hall?

[@drugz420]

Studded winter tires make huge diff. Love my JGC in winter

[@mattclose1439]

+three6 Only thing that will help on packed snow and ice. My 4runner with half the tq breaks loose. Only thing that will ever change that is a mechanical interference like chains or studs.

[@monarchco]

+Matt Close "something that will help on ice" Fixed it.

[@weirdshibainu]

Nathan. Any cold weather starting problems with the diesel? Bummer about your broncos...

[@KickoStocks]

Sick of people judging cars snow performance with winter tires. No car performs in snow and ice without winter tires.

[@Stonemasters11]

So you're sick of People Judging with the very Tires You Claim they should use?

[@IKhanNot]

Micah Watts Well he does make sense. Summer tires for summer testing and winter tires for winter testing. What reviewers should do is use the manufacturer approved or recommended tire for the appropriate season instead of what the car came with because the test loses credibility.

[@claycarlson697]

2015 Cherokee diesel

[@jasoncarpp7742]

Those are good things to have on an SUV, good traction control, because 420 lbs-ft. of torque doesn't do you any good if you're sliding around like an idiot. Another thing I'd recommend, studded tires. Along with traction control, it's a good thing to have tires to help you when the surface gets slippery.

[@dieselmutt8865]

A turbo charged engine isn't going to be affected by altitude. At least not in any way that will effect the performance output.

[@Bigski79]

Was that Jeep equipped with Quadra-Drive II® 4WD system ? ($800 option) How much of a difference does it make. Can you please make a video comparison. Thanks in advance. -BigSki

[@wsc31]

It would have been more impressive if the traction control on a 2000 ML430 was not almost as responsive as the 2014 Jeep. Not knocking the Jeep, which is one seriously capable vehicle, but keeping it in perspective. Like yourself on those occasions when the traction control was disabled it generated a very high pucker factor. I seem to remember when all that sliding around was fun, of course that was when I was young and foolish, not just foolish. ;-)

[@SonzillaGTR]

I love your videos watch them all the time but I think you guys should focus more on demonstrating to us the tests you do more than talking and cruising around. For example here you guys talked about traction issues in snow so focus on that and show in each selector mode how the car behaves and how much slippage there is. Have the camera focused on the wheels.

[@TLOaks_]

Good review, but Nathan please stop talking with your hands. The hand gestures are really distracting and annoying. I can tell you are doing it for emphasis but your words are enough. Also, producer...second request stop with the loud music. Some of us sneak this viewing at work and when it goes from talking to loud music, not cool!

[@MuizzyP]

this or the ml350 bluetec ?

[@sic22l]

Is it the 2WD/RWD version? Rear wheels were sliding quite a lot.

[@boberson33]

Hey Nathan, boberson from Seattle here, hows the weather in Co, I thought you Denver folk were used to cold weather :^)

[@zafjaskdjf]

can you do similar videos with the audi q5 tdi? Its a lot better car for similar price

[@haroutisayan9233]

Review a 2013 chevy tahoe ls

[@xn7331]

MORE COWBELL!!!:D

[@2008equinox]

Didn't see the "Trail Rated" badge on that Jeep.

[@Kingsoupturbo]

Hurray a diesel option! Oh it only comes on the upper trim levels, oooh its an extra 4700$ a year, thanks chrysler, now I have to drive it for 15yrs to make up the savings over the V6

[@将軍九八.彁]

BMW M550d xDrive has more power and torque with better fuel economy, but It does pretty good for being 1000 lbs heavier.

[@CalebCissna]

We don't have the M550d xDrive in the us. We only have the 535d xDrive and the 740Ld xDrive.

[@TheHoth1]

Long term reliability is still a question mark though

[@IKhanNot]

The reason why the traction control is kicking in all the time is because it's on all seasons which can't grip so the system tries to compensate for the slippage by kicking in. Throw on some winter tires and that issue won't happen. It's like my idiot neighbour who thought he could get through the winter with summer tires on his MB GL because it had 4matic. Well he learned his lesson when trying to go on a slippery on ramp and ended up totalling it because he flipped it.

[@snowmobile6]

Great video! Did it have Quadra-drive or Quadra-trac II?

[@johnphilipdetorres8439]

Yes. But it's optional for other Grand Cherokee models. :)

[@jackproz]

You don't live somewhere that normally snows do you?

[@kylekoz2012]

Good to know jeep makes a car idiot proof

[@im1greatman]

When are they putting the Fiat badges on?

[@rodneyemmerich8828]

Why the loud music between the talks , have to continually adjust the volume , very irritating

[@Mamo878]

Too bad the diesel option is so expensive at $4500 extra. Yikes.

[@pontiachotshot]

The tires on that thing are junk, no wonder you cant get traction.They should be on a corvette lol if you put some snow tires or A/T's on that thing then you can do anything.

[@sergevivier956]

The front seats look narrow to me.

[@devilshalash]

First thing i do when i start my charger srt is turn off traction control :P true story, but again where i live it barely rains and we got no snow but it is very slippery cause of dust >>> saudi arabia but its fun so fuck it xD

[@TheRicereater78]

You don't drive on ice much, huh? :p

[@SteelRhinoXpress]

for nearly 54 grand it should be impressive.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I love how he's out of breath...

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

sounds like it mighta been 70% LOL

[@Macaframa1]

***** gold hill, co is probably over 8,000 feet above sea level

[@joseph11835]

primary symptom of heart failure and shitty reviews

[@mattclose1439]

WOW, he is quite a terrible driver

[@b22chris]

What are the cons of owning a diesel other than the price of gas?

[@akltom]

More torque, you don't need high rpm to tow heavy load; more reliable, tougher, will take more abuse, Diesel engine life normally last much longer than petrol engine, so you have more resell value. Diesel engine normally running with lower rpm, this means you use less fuel. I saw some newer diesel cars running more than 1000-1200kms with one full tank diesel( 50-60 litre) on highway. Because it is only a 3 litre diesel engine for the cherokee, it has less horse power than the petrol. If the engine has problem, it will cost more to fix.

[@akltom]

Diesel motors are very popular here in new zealand, most SUV and pick up trucks here are diesel. The price for diesel is cheaper than petrol. All gas stations have diesel pumps. My brother just got new diesel landrover defender, the car only need to get it service every 20,000kms.

[@akltom]

William Todd maybe america has higher emission standard than european countries, landrover defender td4 engine is ok to driving in europe but not in america. Those diesel engines do cost more to fix, but they are much tougher than petrol engine. I'm not sure about now, back to 5 years ago, for Audi A8 series, they only come with diesel engines here. mecerdies, audi, bmw, landrover,vw, jeep cherokee and wrangler all have diesel as option for customer.

[@davva360]

b22chris I would say oil change costs as they are more frequent and typically diesel engines need more oil than the same sized gas engine. Other than that they tend to last a long time, provide a lot of torque and better mpg. The mpg benefits though would take a long time to compensate for the higher initial cost and maintenance costs.

[@tristanoliva]

LOL you guys should seehow i drive my xj in the snow.......

[@robinyates9426]

you have to drive in a manner to suit the prevailing conditions.If you drive with loud music playing you cannot hear what your tyres are doing.I had a boss once who came into work in his new Porsche 911 Turbo,radio blasting and said this fookin thing is useless in snow! I rest my case

[@seraphimvalkyrin4543]

If you're experienced enough though you can tell if your wheels are slipping just by feel

[@robinyates9426]

some exceptionally gifted people probably can but mere mortals need to listen to the vehicle.

[@dchawk81]

robin yates Call me exceptionally gifted then. Or maybe just moderately experienced.

[@robinyates9426]

or full of bullshit

[@Karnage543]

robin yates Its very easy to tell if your wheels are slipping by feel. You must just suck at driving if you feel otherwise.

[@arthurs7882]

with TC off, family drifter anyone?

[@coureurdebois]

tail lights are so ugly on that

[@youngblood23rb]

Please chill out with the obnoxious music!

[@seraphimvalkyrin4543]

I dislike traction control

[@MyJeep]

More like to much rim for good tires.

[@chiakisteadman3113]

My old '96 Subaru Outback could easily break loose on snow and ice with dedicated snow tires, even with a tired 2.5L with well over 200k miles (and that was at 7300 feet elevation). That was far less than 100 foot pounds of torque. Any newer car will significantly limit the power based on what it senses it can use based on the info it senses from a variety of inputs from the car. Traction control is there to help people who are growing less capable of driving who keep buying newer cars that come with more and more power. Here is a bit of common sense: if you are driving in a manner that engages traction control, stabilitrack or ABS while driving in the winter - BACK OFF. These cars safety systems can't always displace STUPID. Drive within the limits your car is capable of. Give yourself more forward space, slow down, and plan your route to avoid inclines and declines if possible. Any time I get a new car, I take it to a big vacant parking lot after it snows or freezes and see what the car is capable of and understand its limits. People don't know how their car reacts under most conditions anymore. Driving is a developed talent, and practice always helps. As for the video, how was it accurate, fun or informative in any way?

[@Pendragon501]

The tires only spin per your input of the throttle... I find it hard to believe this question was turned into a video.

[@MrAndriy1982]

54K$ for a Jeep?! Crysler is going wrong direction!

[@charlestravis9798]

This Jeep is essentially AWD

[@rebelyell22]

Throttle control. I've driven my car on ice and its rwd

[@Panthers1521]

I like the other guy better

[@gertzadik]

In this economy, anybody who would go into debt for 54 grand for a diesel that only gets 28 mpg highway is an idiot! Please do some reviews of the best mpg diesels.

[@seraphimvalkyrin4543]

It's really good for a SUV though.....and of course diesel cars are going to be better because they are ore aero dynamic and weigh less but their really aren't that many for sale in the US

[@dchawk81]

28 mpg is awesome for this kind of vehicle. Granted, the gas version is no slouch either economy-wise.

[@krisl7068]

I dunno, just talking about fuel mileage without looking at what type of vehicle it is seems far more idiotic.

[@im1greatman]

Kris L It's 2014, that excuse is played out and has been overused since 1998. No more excuses for why a vehicle has terrible fuel mileage.

[@dchawk81]

im1greatman No more excuses like...physics?

[@OCIR7135]

"That didn't go well." Might have gone a lot better if you knew how to drive. Try steering into the slide instead of acting like a passenger going for a ride in the Jeep. If you are going to do test drives on KZbin you might take a defensive driving class on a skid pad first.

[@marcusjnewtonz28]

Clicked off after the fishtail with traction control off. Seriously? A lot of TFL videos are good, but this one isn’t. Also, torque numbers have almost nothing to do with snow traction.

[@jasonneal]

Damn I if this scares him I would hate to see him in a car with real power

[@monarchco]

+jasonneal Yeah. Because it's not like the SRT or the Hellcat WK2 have power. the grand cherokee is just a little suv with a tiny set of engines... you're totally right....

[@sahiel5]

im a ford guy but this is good looking car the engine is from fiatso well se how it dose but at leats not hemi crap

[@TheTxiong71]

50k for this? Buy a truck

[@FreeSkiMN1]

Mud and Snow tire? Ya think again bud

[@ToAstYNaChO]

+Austin Powell *MS rated. which stands for mud and snow

[@canucktheory3271]

You make it sound like 420 tq is ground breaking and crazy... You TFL guys make the oddest videos sometimes. At least it wasn't romans annoying rambling.

[@blackericdenice]

1:55 you didn't do anything. What are you afraid of. AWD on snow is nothing, try 2WD.

[@bogart047]

too much talks

[@chadw8481]

omg, a fucking car channel that doesnt comprehend that crank tq doesnt go straight to the wheel. 420lbs of tq at the wheel in this thing would barely move.... ever head of hear multiplication? fuck my life

[@chadw8481]

bobwatters yeah. thats only like 4 times what a lug nut needs. you can do that on your own with your arm. you aint moving a car fast with that. so yes, the ACTUAL tq at the wheels is FAR FAR greater than 420lbs of tq. its 420 X the combine gear ratio's of gear times final. minus loss. how else do you twist axles. aint with 420lb of tq

[@James28R]

@@chadw8481 ur so kool. hopefully in the last 8 years you learned not to be such a cunt.

[@loveracing1988]

Mud and snow tire? Maybe if your driving a trailhawk they are. Forterras suck in every situation besides dry pavement.

[@tobysurmann1936]

Talk about a pansy ass driver in the snow with the traction control off.

[@ALPAN0507]

diesel in a car and winter are not compatible. Checked Russia!

[@michaelschlimm1763]

I hate traction control. I would rather operate without it. Real jeep drivers prefer to be in control so they can feel what the jeep is experiencing and respond appropriately. I don't want a computer making my decisions for me.

[@zxtenn]

+Mike Schlimm 100% correct, might be good for the wife but I have a 96 GC with the 5.2 and prefer the old school when people ACTUALLY knew how to drive, I never slide off the road, get in accidents, etc. WITHOUT all that nonsense. Granted with a better front differential compared to mine the new ones are better in snow and offroad but I have never been stuck as I have limited slip rear and Good Year silent Armor tires. It's sad when a person cant even drive in snow unless aided and with all the new gadgets once a few years takes its toll it will be an expensive nightmare

[@directorjustin]

I would rather have stability control so I can be safer if I make a mistake.

[@maxboya]

You try to be funny by sliding the vehicle at 3mph and you act like it’s 1000+ HP and 1000+ TQ.... relax pal. And it’s not funny either. Try again. Disliked.