Subaru Says The Outback Wilderness Is Their Best Off-Roader Yet - But I'm Not Convinced!

[@standodge7687]

tfl needs to have their own show on discovery velocity

[@bostondan77]

Their editing is very pro.

[@JDMEXforme]

A lot of youtubers should have their own show on a network. Especially ones where they show a build of an engine and modding a car. Example: Throtl. Would be great for a show.

[@standodge7687]

@@JDMEXforme i know, but in the automotive world discovery finally gave the host from trucks gone wild a show and it was a hit so i really believe tfl would be another top rated tv show if they had one

[@red6743]

If you enjoy TFL's format and reporting style, moving to a network would not be conducive.

[@bt4b4]

This YT channel is EXACTLY what people want, a testing of trucks. Off road, towing, mpg and comparison . Thanks TFL ! Peacefrom510

[@srqsup]

I have a 2022 Subaru Outback wilderness here in Alaska. My purpose for it is dealing with snow and ice on dirt roads. Equipped with Hakkapallita 10 (studded) it’s completely unstoppable. 18% grade with glare ice after a melt and re-freeze is a comfortable stressless climb. My F250 with studded snows struggles up the same incline. The Subie powers through a foot of fresh snow on the way to the ski trial with no hesitation.

[@antonroux6737]

sounds impressive. I won't be able to run those tyres you have, but what are the standard Yokohama Geolandar AT G015 tyres like in the snow and ice? Did you get a chance to try them before you swapped them out? Also, what colour did you get?

[@fredastaire6156]

My gawd I love the Hakkas!! Best kept secret for snow and ice! They are bar none the best freakin’ snow tyre made ever!

[@MagnumoftheMountains]

​@@antonroux6737 DO NOT take the Geolandars in snow and ice. Them being rated for it isn't the same as being a true snow tire. I run the Geolandars on my Outback in summer for mild off roading, and then swap out for the Nokians, which are unstoppable as martin says in snow conditions.

[@antonroux6737]

@@MagnumoftheMountains thanks for the advice and warning 👍

[@toma.6942]

Have you had any electrical issues?? Batteries?

[@backroadreviews7353]

Specs for "your top ranked" vehicles you mentioned in the video. 1. Jeep Trailhawk - Tow Rating 2000 lbs. Payload 1000 lbs. Curb weight 4200 lbs. Hwy Range 379 2. Bronco Sport - Tow Rating 2200 lbs. Payload 1000 lbs. Curb weight 3707 Hwy Range 415 3. Outback Wilderness - Tows 3500 lbs. Payload 1130 lbs. Curb Weight 3896. Hwy Range 480 Outback looks like a great choice when just comparing the facts.

[@greateyedeer5418]

He mentioned an index of "best off-road cuv" and yet here you are comparing towing and payload. Umm what?

[@backroadreviews7353]

I mentioned what he didn't in an attempt to showcase the fact that there's more to ranking this vehicle other than it's off-road prowess. For example if your looking to tow this vehicle would be a better choice than the ones he mentioned which is likely why the company that loaned it to him purchased it.

[@ImYoutubing247]

Except the Outback shouldn’t be compared to a Jeep Cherokee or a Bronco Sport. Those vehicles are more in the Forrester class.

[@marshaclark4901]

Very well said, Steve. Almost every vehicle is a set of compromises in order to achieve various differing goals as you aptly pointed out. We happen to agree on the the decisions Subaru engineers made with the Wilderness. Others are free to disagree; no harm no foul.

[@mexmiler]

Have a look at all of their outback related videos. They hate it, and never miss an opportunity to smear it.

[@HappyCarReviews]

In my opinion the new Subaru Outback Wilderness is a well rounded vehicle overall, not aHardcore off roader like a Jeep Or 4runner, but a great value for city and light off road.

[@onedankind8168]

I wouldn't even call it light off road considering the level of off-roading it can do. Light off roading is like a good dirt road that basically any vehicle can drive on imo...

[@HappyCarReviews]

@@onedankind8168 Let's not start the off road debate, because the hardcore ones are going to start trowing stones at us. 😅

[@alexandergordon8477]

I know tons of guys who run subarus for hunting rigs & they do pretty damn good as long as you don’t high center them.

[@HappyCarReviews]

@@alexandergordon8477 ''High center them'' You hit the nail on the head boss! Some good off road tires, and a Subaru can certainly take you a long way. 👍🏼

[@johnwilger2201]

@@HappyCarReviews I literally just had my OB Wilderness on a pretty rough FS road that would likely be rated a blue trail in an OHV park. We stopped for lunch at a viewpoint and a couple of Rubicons rolled up behind us. I got a massive double-take from the Rubicon drivers when they noticed that I had a Subaru up there. Granted, I had to be much more careful with lines and take the road slower than they did, but the OB Wilderness had no issues getting me up the most difficult type of terrain I personally care to travel. And it would likely do even better with some slightly larger KO2's and real skids. The factory "skid plate" is a joke; it is about as thick as a pop can and doesn't even cover the oil pan. The stock tires are 225/65s, and I've heard that you can get 245/65 K02s in there with no mods and no rubbing; that would certainly help things out a bit.

[@ianprice3556]

I always use the manual mode / paddle shifters when off road because of the unpredictability / lack of control of the CVT. Makes a huge difference.

[@robertharrelson5024]

Thanks for the helpful comment. Using manual mode makes sense to me.

[@ianbotts3702]

I was going to say the same thing. I wonder if he was using manual mode. Otherwise I can understand why he's having trouble. 1st or 2nd "gear" in manual mode just walks up hills.

[@tj6111]

Thanks for the tip! Looking forward to getting my own

[@gregnate1384]

OMGosh, what a great and helpful comment! I don't know why I hadn't thought of that. I guess my obvious question to you would be, does the manual mode TRULY behave like a manual in the lower(1 & 2) gears? Have you done a comparison where putting it into manual mode is able to climb things that automatic is unable to climb?

[@anthonyjulson8840]

The Crosstrek they are testing doesn't have paddle shifters.

[@UtahNick71]

I traded my 4 Runner TRD Pro for the Wilderness. I was offered $4K more than I paid for the 4R 20 months ago. I lowered my overall debt by a lot along with my payment. I live in Dallas and have very few places to go to off road. So I only do it when I travel to CO, Utah, AZ. I know its nothing like my 4R off road, but my 4R was nothing like the Wilderness on a daily basis.Dirt roads in the Wilderness are way better as well at higher speeds. It just soaks up the washboards. I loved my 4R, but it was worth more to me as a trade in than driving it daily. I will get to test the Wilderness soon, but as a daily vehicle this Wilderness checks more boxes than the 4R. Its way more fun and comfortable to drive with obviously way better mpg. I still miss the 4R, but at this moment in my life the Wilderness is the better vehicle.

[@ericgray1312]

I'm in exactly the same place and watching videos prepping for trade in. I just don't need the truck I have. Very low gas mileage and it just is way more than I'll ever need.

[@rose415]

What is funnier to drive, crosstrek or outback

[@ptm374]

I have an sti wrx and my biggest complaint is no torque at low gear. You’ve confirmed my concern with the outback. Subaru needs to get a better engine, it’s been over 20 years.

[@randyharrington2653]

I'm 58 years old and live in rural Michigan. We have what is called lake effect snow. I've had 4x4's my whole driving life. Trucks, jeeps, and my Subaru crosstrek is the best vehicle I've ever driven in the winter hands down. I have a Outback wilderness coming in a few weeks. The comfort and safety ratings are great, not to mention the room. And towing capacity is better than a standard Outback. I'm not looking for a rock climber.

[@The333Wanderer]

I love my Subaru Forester but Subarus are not serious off-road vehicles. Snow, dirt, a rock, always. But not the big stuff.

[@Wynorrific]

Subarus are more for dirt trails and rally. I've seen many people try to mod Crosstreks and Outbacks to do the real stuff but it's a waste of money to try and do what a stock 4x4 can do

[@chrishuyler3580]

@@Wynorrific I agree. This Outback is perfect for heading up to Maine and scouting the best places to set up camp and watch the next New England Forest Rally. It's perfect for the ski bum who lives in Boston and drives up to New Hampshire every weekend and doesn't want to get stuck in the notch when there's 6" of fresh powder already on the road. It is not something buyers will choose if they're hitting off road trails in Colorado. But kudos for Tommy for finding and showing us its limits.

[@quantumfzx]

I love my forester too. It dominates highway driving with and without snow. Most of my travel is done on highways where I live so it's a perfect car for me.

[@josephstark4944]

I have a lifted JL Wrangler for anything off-road, and just convinced my fiancée to buy a 2021 Outback Limited XT for bad weather and anything we don’t want to do in the Wrangler. Best two car setup in my opinion 🤘 We’re also in CO

[@maxey05]

I think Subaru does a great job of making a vehicle that is good on and off road. Where most vehicles are good at one or the other. Good gas mileage and comfort. CVTs are just not the best for off-roading.. but it looks like this wilderness maximizes the ability of the CVT. I like it!

[@gs6810]

Did you watch the same video I did? That was not good off road by any standard.

[@unonedva8407]

@@gs6810 Outback is an all-roader, not off roader. Let's make it clear. Don't buy what marketers are saying. No other vehicle can do both things so good at this price point. Outback is safe, reliable, has a super smooth ride, huge and practical trunk, greatest awd system in the business, great handling due to the lower center of gravity, it's super convenient to load and unload due to it's wagon shape and lower roof and trunk lines, fuel economy is great - that's helluva car. No other comes close in terms of functionality and practicality.

[@RKmndo]

It's not the CVT. It's the TCS. Cutting power during a hillclimb seems asinine to me.

[@chrisx5127]

Why not?

[@Liam-uc9xk]

If power to the wheels is an issue, try the deep snow/mud setting. It allows more slippage and therefore more power to the ground!

[@ThePennycuick]

On my outback with x-mode if I plant the foot it cuts power aggressively where if you try to modulate the throttle without smashing it to the floor it allows for more power to slip through cause it isn’t so scared of spinning wheels. 50-75% of throttle is all you need to use.

[@shrackgames]

That's more ground clearance than the new Bronco without the Sasquatch package!!!

[@lanceislateagain]

Yes, the Bronco has a solid axle in the rear, which is the lowest point of the vehicle. Not much you can do to raise that other than bigger tires, or more exotic solutions like portal axles.

[@ihavenoass1126]

Honestly most people aren’t buying a bronco for off roading anyway

[@realidadaparte]

I’ve just had a rented Forester for a three weeks road trip in Iceland and despite I had my concerns after having watched some KZbin off road reviews, I just have to say that it is a great car for that purpose. It is incredibly comfortable on track and very smooth an precise on road. Last year I had a similar road trip in Patagonia (Argentina and Chile) with a Chevrolet Silverado and, OMG, what a uncomfortable and noisy machine it was! Compared to the Subaru it was hell!

[@subienightstars]

I love my 2015 Subie Outback Limited 2.5! Yes could use more horse power like 200hp. But with the fuel I get I am very happy. My 5Th Subie! @subienightstars

[@chrislangstaff]

All the car channels (and viewers, myself included) need to differentiate between offroad/overland vs hillclimb/rockcrawl. NOT the same thing, and any vehicle good at rock crawling like TFL does in the mountains is going to be sh!t on road. Very few people overall need the Rubicon etc to climb huge boulders at an incline, most of us don't live in the mountains. I love watching them all do it, but the expectation that if a vehicle can't that 'it isn't great offroad' is getting ridiculous. Not a shot at TFL or Tommy, just an observation.

[@vedder10]

@@chrislangstaff Great, great point. You are so right. Those dedicated off-roaders like the Jeep Wranglers and 4Runners come with significant compromises. Fuel economy and quality of ride. Most buyers don't even need that level of capability. Where as a Subaru can tackle 90% of what most people encounter and still be a brilliant daily driver that won't violate your wallet at the gas pump.

[@zacariaspiedrasdelrio8984]

You’re living the dream my friend 👍

[@bahahahaha8217]

My experience is opposite, forester was super bland and boring. Very slow with no passing power. Then got a Silverado and everything was truly better. Bought the Chevy a few months after i drove it. Never looked back or regretted. Never will i buy the forester.

[@mrgoodkat8567]

Ive spent months pouring over vids and driving and reading about 4runners. I recently added the wilderness to my short list because the gas prices are ridiculous. There isnt a single mid size suv/cuv out there that i like thats fuel efficient. Yes the 4runner is a true offroad vehicle. But in this day and age theres zero reason to have a v6 vehicle that gets worse gas mileage than most v8 trucks. Thats toyota being lazy. On top of that, when you buy a new runner, you are buying a brand new 10yr oldvehicle. The interior is an absolute dinosaur and the lack of head room when you have an equipped moonroof is laughable. I had to pit aside my instant attraction to the idea of a runner and look at the facts and how i will use my vehicle. The runner just doesnt make sense. For me. So in the next couple weeks i will be getting my first ever subaru in the wilderness package. The outback is a soft roader not a rock crawler. Its meant to blast down forest roads and dirt road trails. Not go over technical trails. And i was actually surprised at how fun it was to drive. I really feel that, even though i agree the cvt is a tad wonky, its a much too overly stated complaint

[@ryzenforce]

Subaru's CVT is top notch and you can't compare it like Tommy did against CVTs of GM/Ford/Chrysler who were trash.

[@Thatbeardedguy86]

You literally were in the same situation I currently find myself in. I’ve been torn going over multiple different vehicles and still can’t decide. I absolutely love the idea of the 4Runner as well and love Toyota, but it’s too dated to be dropping that kind of money.

[@induction7895]

Same situation here. Decided to go with Wilderness.

[@PascalFleuryGermain]

I'm in the same boat though I love the 4Runners and it's interior it just doesn't make sense for me to buy one. The Outback wilderness seems like a lovely compromise however.

[@daboss8717]

I've been camping for the last 5 years in a hyundai veloster turbo. Its gotten to feel a bit small and I've run into multiple situations where it was inadequate in mud and snow. While I like the crosstrek wilderness, I can't see myself being happy with the lack of power. Also at 6ft2in I'd like to be able to sleep in the back of my vehicle and very few offer that kind of space. Definitely getting an OBW this winter

[@-redtango]

At least a mechanical first gear for launch would be a nice add.. offroad crawl would be much improved!

[@dimdim3490]

Exactly! I am one of the few people who actually like CVTs but after 4 subarues i have not bought another one. I am holding out until Subaru ditches their CVT and start using Toyota's CVT with first mechanical gear - then you get the best of both worlds - torque and fuel economy with toyota reliability to boot.

[@dimdim3490]

@Robby Dey not the same. Subaru CVT, as good as it is, can not handle the initial torque. Toyota is not stupid, they put an actual cog for the first gear and only after the car is rolling, toyota CVT switches to chain/belt. No stress on the belt, no stress on the pulleys, more reliable, instant torque keeping fuel advantage of CVT belt at the same time. Pretty genius in my opinion.

[@Tro1086]

@@matthias6125 All CVTs, as far as I know, unless there is some different technology, still use a torque converter. Weather a traditional automatic, or a CVT, the torque converter still acts like a clutch between the engine and transmission.

[@rolexr]

On my small 1.6i Crosstrek (XV in Europe) I can lock the CVT and it holds much the throttle than the 2.0L in this vid! And you should deactivate the DSC/ TRC if you don’t want the extreme throttle cut off!

[@mxwashington]

I got the outback wilderness because I work and live in some rural backroad areas of Oklahoma, and it works really well for what I need.

[@joemikey278]

Tommy, just wanted to say how far you’ve come with your auto journalism. The words and technical aspects/ terms just flow off your lips, giving us viewers great info In a concise and useful format. It makes great use of your viewers time ! Keep up the great work! 👍

[@V10PDTDI]

I was going to say the same thing that you just said and I think it’s probably one of his best review and to think that Subaru don’t want to give them any test cars they are one of the only testing organizations that test the cars in real world environment for all the brands. They also test the marketing claims From the manufacturers.

[@joemikey278]

@@V10PDTDI Amen to that Christian !

[@reaality3860]

The aftermarket offers a two-inch lift kit for the Subaru. The Wilderness comes with a 2.4 turbo 4cyl with a claimed on-road performance of 0 to 60 in about 6 seconds. But seriously, if you're an avid off-road junkie, get a Jeep or Toyota. I think the Subaru is the safest and best all-around, all-wheel-drive, family compact SUV sold in America.

[@The_Samsquantch]

As a person who's about to have their family grow by one, this new outback will likely be my new family camping vehicle. Just not enough room in my old lifted XJ and the ride is way to rough for a child who can barely hold their head up, down the forest roads.

[@matthewfarrell317]

@@The_Samsquantch If the new Outback had been out when we were looking it was on the list, along with the Kluger. But we found a pretty cheap 150 series Prado, and I just wanted the extra space. So it won out in the end. I don't do anything major offroad, just need to get to the rivers for gold and camping lol

[@The_Samsquantch]

@@matthewfarrell317 Yeah those are really nice. They're rebranded as Lexus GX's here in the states. I wish I jumped on one of those sooner as people really slept on them until all the offroad/overland influencers starting making content with them. Now you can't touch one that's less than 10 years old in the states for under $30k used.

[@smellybearc7411]

@@The_Samsquantch Why not a base 4 runner though? Is it because of the amenities?

[@The_Samsquantch]

@@smellybearc7411 The amenities and the fuel economy.

[@matthewsinger]

This is all great, but I'm kinda curious how the Outback Wilderness compares with a regular Outback rather than a Crosstrek.

[@chrisfrye5730]

Great point. And they have better Crosstreks for this for not too much more than the one they are using. The Sport model of the Crosstrek has dual Xmode and a 2.5 engine instead of the 2.0. But you're right. Put a Outback Premium and an Onyx out there for comparison.

[@BlueOvals24]

@@chrisfrye5730 The comparison wouldn't be big. The Wilderness has skid plates that suck and only 1 extra inch of ground clearance. You're really better off with an Onyx XT or any of the other trims with the turbo, then look towards the aftermarket for a lift and skid plate.

[@golferpro1241]

@@chrisfrye5730 Wilderness and Onyx have oil pan leaks with little mileage on them

[@darvelbidenisapuppet7275]

@@BlueOvals24 that is not all, the wilderness has a bigger rear end. Mor torque.

[@BlueOvals24]

@@darvelbidenisapuppet7275 A very marginal amount that nobody would notice.

[@mickeybrumfield764]

To me the appeal of the Wilderness over a regular Outback is that the Wilderness is less likely to be damaged on more difficult terrain. The tires it comes with are less like to be punctured on the rocks, and the skid plates, the ground clearance, and the approach and departure angles are going to protect the frame and body of the car better. I like that it comes with a spare that is a regular tire, tires puncturing has been the biggest problem I have had with my Forester when going off road. I should have invested in good off road tires for my Forester a long time ago.

[@biorna]

Tommy, you should compare your CVT crosstrek with a MANUAL crosstrek (now that they still exist). Would be cool to see if there is a difference

[@chrishuyler3580]

Good idea, but without crawling gears, he'd burn through the clutch trying to make a slow approach to these steep hills. The speed he was going was probably like 1,000-1,500 RPM in 1st gear.

[@phild9813]

I think it would still be a very valid comparison.

[@officialyasir]

Tell Jason from Engineering Explained to bring over his manual crosstrek, he lives in Colorado too

[@sking2173]

@@officialyasir - Yeah, but let Tommy drive it ... He won’t hesitate to slip the hell out of Jason’s clutch to get a good result ...

[@jeffrey88888]

They need somebody to lend them one since the explanation on the first Crosstrek video where Subaru won't let them borrow a car for testing.

[@ronaldsteiger7562]

Tommy Tommy Tommy So I’m a car fanatic I’m 68 years old and have had over 91 new cars I have to tell you I watch all of the auto reviewer‘s and I believe honestly that you how far surpassed them all I like the way you present your reviews and you’re a better version of your dad keep it up good luck to you you’re fantastic

[@gpotwin]

Hey it's a car, really. Goes where no other car cao go, and when back on the road it's a really comfortable road tripper. Love my 2015 outback for rod trips but can still hit dirt roads for miles jus sipping fuel.

[@frankfield7658]

Exactly. The Scooby wasn't built to go head to head w a 4Runner. It's built to be just enough to work for the overwhelming majority of drivers who will never push a 4Runner to its limits. It's darn near the perfect car for outdoorsy folks. They'll enjoy it Monda-Friday a lot more than they probably would a 4Runner. I don't really get why he was making that comparo.

[@brayoungful]

I disagree. Subaru advertises being able to drive into the wilderness, and it has some impressive ground clearance, to boot. But in practice, I've been places in my old Honda Accord that these new Subarus seem to refuse to go. The Accord doesn't have the ground clearance, but at least it'll move as long as it's not bottomed out. If Subaru isn't going to deliver power for even just a bumpy or steep road, they should really just lower the ground clearance a few inches like the car that it apparently is and get better mpg. It doesn't need the 8.5" of clearance if it won't make it down roads that require 8.5" of clearance.

[@Falcon-mc5fs]

Yeah savagegeese only got 20mpg out of their test. Some full size pickups get that

[@TheLeesto]

Yea and also doesn't drop by half in value 2 days after you buy it like a Jeep or Ford.

[@RKmndo]

@@TheLeesto Wranglers hold their resale. So do many Subarus.

[@RyanRKJ]

I put those Yokohama Geolandar G015 A/T tires on my pickup. They did pretty well for me off road, despite their fairly mild appearance.

[@zzturnerful]

I was surprised by the negative comments about the Geolanders. I use them and see plenty of others with them around where I live in SE Wyoming.

[@zatara2124]

There are two geolander ATs. The light truck ones have a much taller tread. The passenger tire version has a more road tread about 1/3 the depth. I hadn't the light trucks on my jeep and they are great

[@Borp56]

I've beat the hell out of subaru screw in tow eyelets plenty of times. Used mine to pull tons of vehicles out of the snow in my WRX. They're plenty strong.

[@gobear83]

Remember only about 2% of people who purchase these do anything close to off road …. They buy them for the secure feeling in snow and bad weather. This is Subaru’s target market …not the lifted big tire segment ….I’ve put over two hundred thousand miles in a Forester in all kinds of weather and it never let me down. I’m now in a 2021 Crosstrek Outdoor.. great vehicle

[@SuperReviews4you]

They really need to start calling these package names "blizzard" instead of "Wilderness and Outdoor".

[@gobear83]

@@SuperReviews4you and I’m wish they would have added banding to our Outdoor…the rims are the only giveaway ….great video’s … Gobear from the Great White North ( Canada )

[@andrewmeehan6151]

Totally agree!

[@orgwizard2000]

Did that 200k foz have a cvt. Just hoping mine lasts that long. So far it's been reliable but all the horror stories out there make me nervous now that I'm beyond 100k

[@gobear83]

@@orgwizard2000 nope..it was a 2011 … with a five speed..that shortly before I sold it was hard to shift smoothly into second ( my bad I was hard on it for a long time )

[@D_2_M]

KO2 very heavy tires for cars that have less than 200hp. Stop giving advice to buy those heavy tires, the driving experience could be ruined. Remember what you said weight is the enemy.

[@tysauce1986]

Pretty sure the xt is rated at 250 hp.

[@derrickschultz6871]

I wish we could see the CVT temperature

[@dimdim3490]

Didn't Subaru put transmission cooler in the Wilderness?

[@jongabrielsen3868]

Imagine if Subaru could just get a Plug In Hybrid right and you could have that electric motor torque to offset the CVT issues?

[@Databyter]

It's not the CVT. It's the torque vectoring, often combined with motors that cannot overcome the loss of torque by braking on steep grades or obstacles. This is cured by MORE TORQUE. Any transmission including manual will lose a lot of torque efficiency with torque vectoring, so you have to make sure that you have enough torque to start with. Taking the smallest motor Subaru has, and testing it on the steepest gravely road, is just what makes TFL so popular to Subaru fans. Databyter

[@UntitledSpaghetti2]

I find my Outback performs better if I use manual mode and set the transmission in "first" gear. This seems to limit the computer from trying to hunt for power.

[@danrenfroe2016]

He NEVER does this. He is kind of weird, also he hates to drive more than 2 mph. He does not know how to properly drive a modern Subaru.

[@marwis32]

exactly, they drive it like they want it to fail. I do the same as u, also TC off. Forget X mode, use only for hill descent.

[@jonathanmcdonald3166]

Exactly! It's the driver not the car. I have the 2021 outback outdoor xt and I have gone where jeeps have gone in Sqaumish BC.

[@altairfoo1920]

Pretty much a driver problem (or in his defense, out-of-the-box (noob) experience). And Tommy is comparing a completely different class of vehicles, Crosstrek is very down on power and torque, Outback has way more to deliver and a better CVT design and program. My forester(2020 sport) won't even cut power when reversing on a 4 wheel slipping condition(deep snow and ice).😂

[@BrandoDrum]

Yup, gotta carry some momentum in ANY car up those hills.

[@mirandadurbin3418]

We ordered the autumn green wilderness yesterday. It won't arrive until near the end of December. My husband is super excited about it.

[@derekmeyers1513]

MSRP? I’m considering the same model but the local dealer is trying to add $2500 on top.

[@thatguydennis2]

If Tommy is the future of TFL then I look forward to watch these videos for years to come

[@oakwolf5161]

can you use the paddle to "downshift" (CVT sorta) during climb to avoid having to floor it?

[@alehax27]

I was in Ouray and saw someone drive one of these up Yankee Boy Basin Rd all the way up to the last "4x4, high clearance, short wheel base" sign. I was impressed, but I do think for the money, there are better options if you plan on doing stuff like that.

[@jeff119990]

for $40k if i wanted a subaru to take offroad id get an older one with a manual and go from there to make a much more capable and better vehicle than the wilderness.

[@mollypage1549]

i would love to see a 2024 Forester comparison - wilderness and something affordable, like the base or premium

[@dylanbrown3840]

I can really appreciate what Subaru is doing here obviously it's not a true off roader. But for most people this makes sense

[@tedg2085]

I had to use the screw-in eyelet to pull my wife's crosstrek out of a snowy ditch. I was concerned about the strength, but even after 10 or so hard yanks it didn't have any issues. I even had to pull at a slight angle. Still a little bit scary but probably not an issue unless someone gets crazy.

[@BullittKid08]

Tommy is a man of few things, mainly Cranberries and Torque Converters

[@robertmanley6102]

Good review! I think you are really coming into your own as a testing and reviewing pro. You really give straightforward real world advice that consumers can use. I'm sure your Dad is really proud of you and how you are growing in becoming an expert auto reviewer and consumer advocate. Be well!👍👍

[@gregoryflewellyn6369]

Needs more aggressive tires,would be good for people that live on a gravel road!

[@jhonrutger3508]

How's the actual gas mileage? I've heard mixed reviews. I want to see it pitted against the onyx xt.

[@chuckcribbs3398]

Subarus are for snow and rain. I think the Outback Wilderness looks cool. I think it would make a great over landing vehicle for light difficult roads. The 4Runner and Cherokee are much better off-road.

[@SgtScoobie]

15’ Crosstrek owner here. All i gotta say. “Manual mode”. I offroad in mine a bit and yes. You want torque the only way to get it. “Manual mode” also im running falken wildpeak a/t’s. No issues.

[@stevemontgomery9966]

One of the most fun vehicles I've ever owned was an '03 Outback sport (basically the old Impreza wagon with bigger wheels and slightly beefed up suspension). With a manual that car was a friggin' blast to drive. I regret trading it in; it was terrific on fire roads in the Pacific NW.

[@stevenjohnson7348]

Turn the traction control off. This is such a simple answer. This is from a guy that is a mile of rock and dirt and about 200 ft elevation gain before asphalt to go to the store.

[@TeomanErtan]

Great review Tommy. A suggestion: I think it'll be really good for us with normal Outbacks with off-road tires and don't want to spend $40K for a factory jacked-up Outback. Just compare Wilderness with a Standard, non-turbo Outback with off-road tires to see how it goes? Keep up the good work, you guys are great. Cheers!

[@Databyter]

I understand you can buy the struts and springs that lift the Wilderness, and fit them to some other Outback models, not sure how far it is backwards compatable. My understanding is that there is no spacers, it is struts and springs. What you would be missing is the lower ratio which equals more torque, and the turbo, which despite this reviewers take, is by ALMOST all accounts, NOT laggy at all, but quite peppy and fun to drive. This vehicle does 0-60 in 6 seconds. I'm wondering where this reviewers turbo lag is occurring. He didn't mention time, he mentioned RPM's. Well, Captain obvious, that is how turbos work. And this one has high reviews when paired with this CVT and gearing. Also this one has a CVT oil cooler, straight from the factory, for lots of fun going up mountain truck trails without overheating the tranny. Databyter

[@chrishuyler3580]

I think if you're planning on going off road at all on weekends, the added price over a normal Outback is justified. To acquire all the same parts and swap them onto a regular Outback is going to cost you more. As for the turbo being too snappy or laggy, I think Tommy's complaint was more in regards to how it works with the CVT. Once your foot is on the floor and it builds torque, you don't realize how much torque you have built up, and when it finally regains grip on all 4 wheels it will launch you forward. That's not lag, and I don't recall him mentioning "lag" in this video, it's just the nature of the beast having a ton of power on tap that disappears into torque vectoring and reappears afterward.

[@Databyter]

@@chrishuyler3580 He's just an poor driver. And I believe he did mention lag. I've had 5 Subaru's. It's not THAT hard. First off there was NO NEED to floor the wilderness. That was just Melodrama. It has plenty of power, you just have to apply the RIGHT amount of throttle. But yeah, if you over-react and don't understand what the system is doing, you may launch, and probably, you shouldn't be driving offroad, or reviewing cars. Databyter

[@williamdonaldson]

My '08 Outback with forester-sized KYB struts and King Springs would outdo this computer-controlled, CVT transmission marketing gimmick.

[@chrishuyler3580]

​@@Databyter Clearly you haven't been watching this channel very long if your assessment is that Tommy is a poor off road driver. The only melodrama is putting this vehicle in a scenario that it wasn't intended for. He's driven up this climb in over a dozen different vehicles on camera. He knows when the electronics are preventing the vehicle from moving forward like it should. Sure, he's going to mash the pedal to see if it can figure it out, and so wouldn't any driver stuck trying to go up an icy or slippery hill. The point is, if you plan on doing that every weekend, buy one of the other vehicles that passed this test without any drama.

[@UncleWookie]

In every off road video Tommy has to mention if the vehicle lifts a tire. It's a Subaru Tommy, not a rock crawler.

[@Its_Me0000]

Great review Tommy. Thank you !!

[@EngineAdventures]

Tommy is definitely the best off road driver at TFL. However, have to disagree with him on the tires, I'd say the KO2 is almost a hybrid between a mud tire and an A/T. The Geolander A/T is a good A/T tire for a Subaru because it will still return good fuel mileage on the highway. Now for a 4-runner or something that's more capable off road then I'd definitely go with a different tire.

[@thebeast9606]

The tread on the KO2’s is nowhere near a hybrid of AT and MT, it is definitely a true all-terrain, especially when compared to the Duratracs and those actually in the “hybrid tire” category. Of those tires in the AT category, I’d say the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W’s and Toyo Open County A/T III’s would be the closest to a hybrid tire since they have more aggressive, chunkier tread than the KO2’s.

[@EngineAdventures]

@@thebeast9606 I agree with the duratracs being a hybrid as well. Look at what Micheline calls an A/T and you'll see why I think the Geolander A/T qualifies as an A/T. Also the Light Truck version of the Geolander A/T is more agressive than the passenger car version.

[@thebeast9606]

@@EngineAdventures True, no argument there.

[@getlosttoday4045]

I would say for winter they would do good by the looks of sipping on the geolanders. Ko2 on a Subaru would be way overkill I'm my opinion.

[@EngineAdventures]

@@getlosttoday4045 some of the Geolander A/Ts are 3 peak mountain snowflake rated (highest snow rating for a non dedicated snow tire), not sure about the ones on the Subaru.

[@saliston]

The Wilderness is impressive.

[@BenTLador]

I'm pretty sure a older Outback with the E5AT would do that trail a lot better than the Wilderness. You know that would make a good comparison since it's always the older Subarus that are always used for trails or pulling other cars out of the snow...

[@samsonphiri6874]

Mine is 4EAT Forester when you put it in L position it's unstoppable💪 I was impressed over the weekend

[@johnwayne8475]

I have a 2010 Outback 3.6R with 5 speed auto and LSD rear diff that would eat this hill. It climbs steep hills with wombat holes without any problems

[@JonLaRue]

I had an order for a Wilderness, but I elected to cancel it and use my deposit on an Onyx, 30 MPG on the highway, 0 to 60 in 5.9 seconds, and will get my wife (OBGYN) to the Hospital through any Missouri winter conditions, and extra ground clearance is great for climbing hills and crossing creeks at my family's farm. We kept our WRX, but are liking the Onyx quite a bit.

[@sonny1597]

Would love to try those trails to see how my 2021 Crosstrek Sport would do .. lifted 2" .. Toyo All Terrains .. aluminum skid plate .. I went with a taller profile tire and now have 12" at the pumpkin. I'm heading North to Minnesota at the end of the month and will be coming up thru Colorado .. if you could send me the coordinates I'd give it a try! I went with the Crosstrek Sport as it's 500lbs lighter and 14" shorter then the Outback. That was a consideration of mine. I just came back from Moab and it did well there .. surprised a few Jeeps along the way.

[@teaguepudwell119]

Post a picture of it. Sounds badass

[@garym51124]

And the extra power from the 2.5 would definitely help. Its my next purchase. Have a jk rubicon if i need to get crazy offroad

[@clintonrice525]

Having spent a few months debating between Wrangler, Cherokee Trailhawk, Bronco, Bronco Sport, Outback Wilderness, Forester Wilderness and Crosstrek Sport, I can’t really disagree with your assessment of off-road performance comparisons based upon everything I’ve seen; however, my own experience (I live in the Midwest, try to go to the mountains 1-2 times per year and want access to 14er trailheads when I go), I wound up ordering a Forester Wilderness based upon the balance of price point, on-road amenities (e.g., fuel economy and adaptive cruise control), and over landing capabilities. In short, I know there are better off-road vehicles, but for two days per year, it’s hard either to pay $10k+ for those capabilities or drive like a Spartan the other 363 days of the year.

[@mickeybrumfield764]

You made a good decision, the Forester Wilderness is a little more capable off-road, and it gets better gas mileage.

[@chaosseat]

If you want to get to the campsites, just use the other entrance that requires no 4wheel drive….

[@jordanyang3066]

LOL thos camps sites are boring

[@bobbob696]

I just put a minor 1 and 1/2" Hazard Sky lift kit on My 3.2 liter 2015 Trailhawk. It now has 10.2" inches of ground clearance with the stock tire size 245/65/17 I also changed brand and design from the Firestone destination AT to Cooper Discoverer AT *M&S* tires. I guarantee that it would literally crush all of the CUV's mentioned in this video. You guys always said (especially your father) "If this Trailhawk just had a little more ground clearance" and a more aggressive tire) now this vehicle would make your pops smile while he was driving it😁 I've been watching your channel for years now and I love the content. Keep things rolling👍 Pun intended😏

[@Deeboskim]

Well done review and comparison. I own an Outback Onyx XT and can say you were pretty spot on. I don't expect it to be a hardcore offroader, but it is a nice comfortable and capable soft roader. I love everything about mine except for that awkward surge in power when you are trying to slowly crawl up something. That has made for some sketchy moments on steeper snow covered dirt roads when trying to keep a slow steady pace (in xmode) and then that unwanted surge of power come out of nowhere sending the back end walking. Not confidence inspiring and pretty scary when your next to a steep drop off. It's weird I don't remember my Forester XTs with CVTs having that issue

[@BernonCars]

Would’ve been nice if Subaru added a mechanical LSD like the old ones! But jeez. The transmission lag is nuts

[@valdius85]

At least as an option. I agree.

[@somethingelse9535]

It was a viscous LSD and quite weak with minimal effect, and wore out over time to no effect. Traction control was a much better idea.

[@grantfar1]

A torsen limited slip would be even better.

[@Databyter]

You can easily install a mechanical rear locker on these now, but they really don't need it in most cases. And the most affordable one is an auto locker, which can be annoying I would imagine as it ratchets while making slow sharp turns (by design_). This is one area where the Bronco Sport excells. They have a switchable rear dual clutch system, that is basically a virtual locker, and then that is on top of the torque vectoring, which appears to be about as decent as it needs to be, much like the Subaru, of course you need to know how to drive. Databyter

[@ivannarvaez367]

Glad to see that Subaru is improving their vehicles to perform better off road and there are people that simply won’t drive anything, but a Subaru. Those are the ones that will buy this. A Forester Wilderness should be really cool.

[@MatchBookNotes]

Hi, I am from the future... it is happening.

[@vicau6906]

Best Crossovers (without concerning reliability) : Jeep > Ford > Subaru Best Crossovers (with concerning reliability) : Subaru > Jeep > Ford and probably Subaru got the best resell value after 5 years! Lastly, another great review from TFL Offroad!! well done!

[@sking2173]

Agreed, except it has to be said that Subaru has had its share of engine problems with oil consumption and head gaskets ...

[@brandonb.5304]

@@sking2173 What...like 5+ years ago? Subaru hasn't had oil consumption and head gasket issues in any of their newer vehicles since like '16 and up. If you're buying an older Subaru, sure, but that's not really an issue with Subarus any longer.

[@vicau6906]

@@sking2173 may be the TFL folks can tell us if there is oil consumption with their Crosstrek? I think many viewers will definitely be looking forward to their ultra-long term testing! If this problem is resolved, this will give us much more the confidence that the Wilderness trim will be very much the best SUV/crossover for causal off-roader like myself!

[@Orcus1030]

I have to say, I've complained about your Subaru reviews in the past, but you did a good job here. I think part of the negative perception you have is taking underpowered models (NA Crosstrek and Outback) at high altitude in CO where they have even less power. FYI, part of the 8spd auto issue is packaging. With a flat four and AWD, it is nearly impossible to fit an auto as big as the new units.

[@davep2945]

Agreed, they are finally beginning to understand that these cars aren't "cutting power" to protect anything as they have asseted in the past. Instead, they are just under powered at elevation and the CVT doesn't help anything. I've owned a 2013 Impreza and under 6000' elevation it's more than good enough. But I've also had it out in Colorado and just leaving an overlook at 10,000 to 12,000 feet felt like the car had 30 horsepower. If I could maintain speed on the long sweeping roads that most major mountain highways in CO are then it was fine once up to speed but still sluggish with any serious grade. Going up Pikes Peak highway once the switchbacks started and I was over 11,000', forget it. Basically beat the crap out of the engine and transmission to the shuttle parking lots when they were running them during construction at the summit and let the park service Transits take the abuse the rest of the way! But back on the highway going east it was comfortable, quiet and average 33 MPG for 1600 miles. Just needs more oomph. The 2.5 Crosstrek would have been better but then I don't live in Colorado.

[@josephstark4944]

The XT, Onyx and Wilderness model is turbocharged.

[@nickjacobsss]

I'd like to see this comparison done again with the 2.5L crosstrek that has dual xmode! Probably extremely similar experience to the wilderness I'd think

[@BlueOvals24]

Not really, the Outback still has a lot more power over the 2.5 Crosstrek.

[@valdius85]

Yeah, Subaru's CVTs are decent, but they are still CVTs. I'm happy with my Forester, but my brother's CX-8 diesel is smoother, even though it's a diesel. In Japan Subaru comes in a very competitive prices and I don't do such a challenging trips, so I'm happy with my choice. I'd prefer Toyota Fortuner, if it was available in Japan :)

[@kclamer]

Tommy talking about safety of recovery points is kind of ironic coming from a team that used a ball on a tow hitch to recover one of their vehicles. Subaru management is probably hiring a hitman to take care of TFL right about now.

[@unonedva8407]

The most biased Subaru hating channel on the internet. They're probably getting some pay from Jeep / Chevy and other truck makers

[@MK-hl9vo]

Subaru doesn’t invite these guys to their events nor give them their vehicles…TFL has been salty for about 2-3 yrs 😂

[@ericgallagan946]

I kind of view the Crosstrek as a modern day VW Baja Bug. You can add quite a bit of aftermarket parts to them. The CVT is unfortunate in the newer models with the 2.5L. Wish they offered some real auto’s or manual with the bigger engine. I agree with Tommy’s final thoughts 100%. The price on these crossovers is getting out of hand. They are nice, but for not much more money you could own something that is much more capable. Most crossovers follow the “good at several things, master of none” mentality. They are great commuter cars/family vehicles… but the off-road variants aren’t going to even come close to competing with vehicles designed for off-road use such as a Jeep or most 4x4 trucks. Out of all the cars I have driven, Subaru has done the best with the CVT, and it works for most people that use them as commuter cars. It’s really the car / adventure enthusiasts that suffer.

[@SteveBl]

I have generally disliked TFLs stated comparisons for their off road reviews (often giving cars tests they cannot pass then noting how they failed). In addition, TFL has claimed that Subaru markets their cars incorrectly as off roaders which is a stretch when considering how broadly defined off road is. I do however enjoy the off road tests TFL does and they have gotten more fair in their reviews. Big improvement IMO. I never owned a Subaru, I have driven them on and “off road” however. The trucks and truck based SUVs I’ve had will all wheel circles around any Subaru in anything technical, in some cases, even if said trucks were in 2 wheel drive mode. But that comparison isn’t the beauty in Subaru or any of the other AWD Cross overs with off road aspersions. The metrics need to be reevaluated with on road and city driving in mind as chief concerns. I can assure you that a low slung station wagon simply is not a viable soft road vehicle. I’ve tried that. It doesn’t work well. Subarus are much better for those sorts of mixed missions. But I completely agree, the CVT needs to go. It is the weak point on the Subaru and the main reason I won’t buy one. I’m looking at the Jeep Cherokee or Bronco Sport instead. The lower gear ratios are also a big advantage especially out here in the higher elevations in the western states. The fact is, a lot of the best campsites are on moderately difficult roads at high elevation out here. CVT + very poor gear ratios really work against the Subaru. The Bronco Sport , the Honda Passport, the Jeep Trailhawks all do better with auto transmissions and lower gear ratios.

[@MrGarfield4]

The CVT, at least for me, is the MAIN reason we did not buy out the lease on my wife’s 2018 Outback. The car felt sluggish and unresponsive on the road. I never drove it off road. One of the biggest issues for me is the lack of accessibility for the transmission oil filter. The ONLY way to change the filter, from what I understand, is to pull the transmission and crack the case open. Not too conducive to transmission longevity. I asked my local Subaru dealer when the first scheduled transmission fluid change was on the Outback. The said the transmission is sealed and doesn’t require a fluid change until 135k miles. Poking around on the forums, many people are saying that the dealers are reluctant to change the transmission fluid prior to the scheduled change. Not for me thank you. We bought a Mazda CX-30 with a conventional torque converter automatic and the optional AWD system. It may not go as many places as the Subie, but at least the transmission has a chance of survival with regular fluid changes.

[@andrewmeehan6151]

Ford and FCA transmissions probably won’t last as long as even a CVT tbh. The Honda might be a good car though.

[@ripfletching]

I would love to see this vehicle and a heads up against the bronco sport with a good set of tires like Dura tracks

[@JohnConnor636]

It would lose because of the transmission

[@davidwalker375]

I have a 2013 outback with toyo open country a/t tires. It actually does pretty well. It's no rock crawler, but I've been pleasantly surprised.

[@ripfletching]

@@JohnConnor636 I don’t think so I believe the bronco sport would have a better transmission the Subaru has an inherently weak transmission one of my friends owns a dealership

[@locoraindrops7653]

The Bronco would be recalled b4 the comparison could be completed.

[@alehax27]

The bronco sport will perform better, but it's a poorly built car

[@sparkywatts3072]

I have a 2002 and a 2017 Subaru Forester non turbo. The 2017 has the cvt transmission. The 2002 will easily out climb the 2017 because if you go too steep the 2017 reduces power to protect the transmission. Low "gear" (I know it's not gears) on the CVT is too high for off road driving. Stay on the pavement and it's just fine.

[@ducati-uv1ov]

I just bought one I pick it up today or tomorrow. I am moving down from a Chevy ZR2 Bison. My use is long constant trips up to Maine and its often snow and ice my house in Maine is on a long dirt road. While the ZR2 was great its not a great 3 hour commuter and I never needed the lockers ever. This seemed like a nice commuter that I did not need to worry about weather or dirt roads. Get the car for the need I guess. I hate the CVT also I plan to get the new STI when announced if they put a CVT anywhere near that I will be pissed.

[@greateyedeer5418]

Meh. I think you should've bought a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk or Ford Bronco Sport Badlands.

[@ducati-uv1ov]

@@greateyedeer5418 I really like subarus those cars do not interest me at all. Maybe a full size Bronco next year when inventory catches up.

[@kartboarder22g17]

Glad your doing these videos to help others that want to go overlanding see that a standard Crosstrek doesn't cut it, you need more. Well done.

[@Fozzymandius]

You should be using the deep snow and mud setting if you're going to be lifting wheels. That setting is specifically what lets you spin the wheels vs having the throttle cut entirely. That setting has been missed in a lot of the TFL videos and it really changes how the car goes offroad.

[@jfeltech1]

Totally agree. Was waiting for Tommy to try another run. Disappointed that we didn’t get to see that deep snow and mud setting in xmode 2.

[@zane8789]

I think the outback is a great off-roader. I've taken mine off-road and onto very sandy beaches without ever getting into trouble. Something many people fail to talk about is the suspension travel on the outback, which has always been the best in it's class. It's such an underrated spec.

[@zane8789]

One time I took it through a beach that had 16 inch ruts. I passed 3 giant trucks stuck in the sand and the car just pushed the sand out of the way. If it got to be too deep, the car literally leap frogged and just keep going. After experiencing that, I will only be buying outbacks from now on. I have a 2011 2.5i and have always had 17" tires on it

[@milesb4231]

@@zane8789 show video please .

[@AC1717]

Great review, thank you! I couldn't agree with you more about the CVT transmission and the need for a 8AT. Have a '21 OB Onyx XT and that CVT has to go!

[@danielhadley6774]

I owned a 2003 TLC, took it on stuff you wouldn't believe. Your 7.5 inch number for UJZ100 clearance is if all four tires are flat Tommy.....

[@mark-di5pf]

I've had KO2's and the Geolandars G015 in Baja, Moab and countless forest and BLM roads and have had great success in everything from sand, to loose over hard pack and slickrock. the Geolandars perform better on road with better tracking and they both have performed exceptionally for me off road. Geolandars seem like a good match for the Wilderness given its limits.

[@sking2173]

Is a BLM road an interstate highway blocked off by hoards of angry “peaceful protesters” ??

[@RyanRKJ]

I agree. The Geolandar G015 A/T seems like a very good match for this car’s capabilities. They worked well for me on my pickup.

[@LanguagesWithAndrew]

Can someone please tell me what the difference is between a skid plate and a bash plate? As best I can tell it's just a dialectical difference between British and American English but both mean the same thing (Brits say "bash plate", Americans say "skid plate").

[@xJG91x]

Subarus are never going to be off road vehicles. Flooring it and the wheels don’t even move? What the hell.

[@sking2173]

They did a hell of a lot better before they went with that brake-assist AWD system. Go back to the true LSD in the rear, and the Subie would be much more capable ...

[@JRaf1992]

I just swapped my 2 Door Wrangler Rubicon JL for a Wilderness this week and broke in the Subie on a 2k mile road trip. I’ve made the same trip in both cars and the Subie was hands down the better grand tourer, so much more comfort on the road and the driving aids are a game changer. I know I’m sacrificing a good bit of off-road capability but for me the trade off is worth it since I frequently make long trips. I do wish the Outback came with an 8 or 9 speed transmission. I’ll give Subaru credit because I really don’t like the feel of CVTs but this transmission was good enough I really don’t notice daily driving. I think a standard auto would really make this battle wagon special. Even better with an STI manual tranny!

[@ragnarocking]

you can get the Crosstrek with a manual transmission. You can't get one with the Outback however.

[@willieb.1700]

manually shift the subaru CVT, Night and day performance differences. also turn off traction control

[@shikcheese3234]

I was hoping you would gone have gone up again with the new x-mode e for tougher situations engaged.

[@antonroux6737]

I guess channels like this have a problem. People want to see more realistic and judicious, even scientific, comparisons between vehicles, but the channel wants to dramatise the biggest difference possible between vehicles for typical media sensationalism - so they compromise between drama and useful review comparisons - and no one is happy.

[@matthewjohnson1211]

I really like the looks of it actually (never thought I’d say that about an outback!). Much prefer it to the boxy 4 runner. Seems like a nice little upgrade in off-road performance while maintaining solid everyday driving comfort. Another channel I watched actually got this thing to do sub-6 sec.0-60 times! (Cvt lag and all) -That would blow the doors off a bronco sport or 4 runner!

[@RKmndo]

Tommy, install a Torq Locker into your Crosstrek. It's a little over $400 US, and you can remove it and reinstall the stock spider gears for driving on winter roads. You could also install Cusco LSDs front and/or rear, but they're more than triple the price...each.

[@O-Heyguys]

A Subaru Outback for a Colorado channel? Say it ain’t so! Every 4th car you see is a Subaru with a coexist sticker on it.

[@alexs3187]

Usually it’s in the opposite side from the Bernie sticker.

[@fuddrucker74]

And they both suck

[@anthonyc1883]

My favorite sticker on a Subaru, way way long ago (in suburban Chicago no less) was "Visualize whirled peas."

[@g.s.8108]

Would putting the Wilderness in manual mode and keeping it in "1st" make any difference? I think Tommy nails this one on several points. 1) Subarus are not Jeeps 2) Other cross overs can do what Subarus can but Subarus do it more comfortably and the higher ground clearance means less thinking about line choice. 3) I agree that the Wilderness does not offer enough to match a more dedicated off roader like a Jeep or 4 Runner. The non-wilderness Outback XT is the sweet spot in the Outback line up IMO.

[@MrRickTic]

I feel like it’s not really the transmission as much as the computer cutting power while it figures out traction.

[@andrewsnow7386]

It's definitely the computer cutting power, but the question is why is it programmed to cut power? Vehicles like the Bronco Sport show that better programming is possible, and I don't think for a moment that the Subaru engineers just weren't as smart. I think the computer is programmed to cut power to protect components of the drivetrain. They could be protecting the differentials or drive shafts, but I think the CVT is most likely candidate for needing the protection.

[@MrRickTic]

@@andrewsnow7386 I agree. I don't like CVT's. I dont even like the CVT in my Polaris Sportsman.

[@Ryan-1337]

@@andrewsnow7386 bingo, I saw a guy with a lifted and modded out Crosstrek the other day. I was curious to why someone would put that much money into a Crosstrek to make it into an off-roader over buying something cheaper and more purpose built. Low and behold it was just a basic Crosstrek before all of the mods BUT it was a manual and boy what a difference that makes over the cvt model.

[@dimdim3490]

@@andrewsnow7386 In one interview a technical rep for Subaru said as much - computer is programmed to cut power to prevent chain slipping. I think mechanical launch first gear as in toyota is the answer to this problem.

[@marcgucciardo1942]

@@Ryan-1337 Hi hv u v,

[@itsamemario8345]

My wife just bought a 22 Wilderness. Had to take it in for warranty and they gave her an Outback Touring with the 2.5l non-turbo as a loaner. She said it was struggling, especially compared to hers. If I remember right only the Onyx XT, Limited XT, Touring XT and Wilderness have the option for the 2.4 Turbo. Could be wrong though heh. The cheapest way to get into the 2.4t is an Onyx XT (35,145) which about $1800 less than the Wilderness (36995). I'd say for all you get the Wilderness is a steal at a base of 37k.

[@johnwayne8475]

This car just walzed up an incredibly steep rutted track perched on top of a mountain, and Tommy's reaction is... "it's not bad but Subaru needs to do better" LOL

[@xfozzypx115]

That’s because it’s a Subaru, super biased on this channel unfortunately. Check every other channel and they do nothing but rave about the wilderness. Still like these guys but they definitely hate Subaru. Lol

[@tw6896]

Guess what powers the Subaru CVT? A torque converter. You really need to learn some things before you go bashing stuff you don’t understand.

[@artv232]

I wish this was the Crosstrek with the 2.5L engine. I think I already knew the lower end engine (2.0L) wouldn't be comparable. If I was really considering the Crosstrek to potentially save money over an Outback, I would want to know what an higher end Crosstrek could do. This particular comparison is totally useless. And they both should have at least similar tires to make things equal.

[@johnnumbat9782]

Thanks TFL - I’ve owned nine Subarus and all before the CVT - I stopped buying them when they introduced the CVT - my 1997 Automatic 2 litre Forester could easily climb steep Australian tracks with the Geolandars with no hesitation for all four wheels and fully loaded with camping gear - I got the original engine and transmission to 425000km - I’m selling my 4WD due to high fuel/running costs and will get another pre-2009 pre-CVT Forester - the 4EAT auto transmission with torque converter is amazing - the CVT is woeful, overheats easily and hates towing/steep tracks.

[@NothingMaster]

When the going gets tough, the tough get Subaru.

[@Starbreaker666]

I use Geolander AT G015's on my f150 and the lugs are huge.. Every bit as grippy as Ko'2s.. The car tire versions are more road then dirt where as the truck versions are MUCH more luggy.

[@We-Cook-It]

Awesome vid.👌🏽👍🏽, You should try it with the Crosstrek Sport, Ascent and the next Wilderness coming up

[@eugenegutierrez5106]

I have forester sport, it came with red trimming and black aluminum rims. Very functional. I lifted to 1.5” with eibach springs. Now my ground clearance is 12”. Off the ground.

[@paulsumpter9573]

Love to see a comparison between the Wilderness and the Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk