Thanos Was Wrong - Eugenics and Overpopulation | Renegade Cut

Our planet's issues with poverty, hunger and climate change all have a root cause, and it's not overpopulation. It's capitalism. Now that Avengers Infinity War has reintroduced this concept into the popular consciousness, it's time to explain why Thanos is wrong, once and for all. Support Renegade Cut Media through Patreon: / renegadecut
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BIBLIOGRAPHY AND FURTHER READING:
www.ebooks.com/en-us/954706/c...
theanarchistlibrary.org/libra...
www.vox.com/energy-and-enviro...
isreview.org/issue/108/conven...
traversingtradition.com/2018/...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.theglobeandmail.com/opini...
www.pri.org/stories/2013-07-2...
www.theguardian.com/sustainab...
www.sciencedaily.com/releases...
www.fastcompany.com/3016331/t...
• Video
• The Problem With "Over...

[@justme0910]

Thanos should've used that gauntlet to seize the means of production.

[@johannageisel5390]

I want this on a T-shirt.

[@chillmadude]

@@johannageisel5390 i second this motion! please someone get on it!

[@seymonsays14]

Had to unlike to keep it at 169, but yes

[@mgway4661]

He could have made the universe more bountiful yes, therefore producing more products to feed the masses

[@verymanite8996]

My headcannon for Thanos is that he really just wanted to kill people, but he masked it with some BS "noble" intention.

[@jackcullen5085]

One of the largest horrors of Malthusian Economics is actually the Irish Famine, there was plentiful food in Ireland at the time, in fact the Turkish made a massive aid shipment as well, so there was absolutely no excuse for the famine. However, the Irish were seen as "inferior" and a rapidly increasing population and so the British made the executive decision to not aid us in any way, blocked the Turkish donations, and they also offered food aid to those who would convert to protestantism and speak english, in a system that most modern anthropologists would label a purposeful genocide. The Irish population before the Famine was 8Million+, and then about a million people died(mostly Catholic Gaelic people). It also gutted the Irish economy, relegating ireland to essentially be an underdeveloped country until the 1990s and to this day the Irish population is only around 4.5million. People think that these ideas don't affect our lives, but as we can see, they can have a direct and dire effect.

[@ANTSEMUT1]

Also they were subjected to draconian work for food programs, where they weren't even given enough food and were force to work long hours in terrible conditions.

[@AhmetCinar35]

Also Turks were about to send £10,000, but the queen donated £2,000 and wanted ottoman sultan to donate £1,000. Later, the sultan sent a bigger aid with ships secretly.

[@TheSuperRatt]

The Choctaw nation too gave aid to Ireland! Despite having recently survived the Trail of Tears and dealing with their own oppression. That is what solidarity looks like.

[@lucyandecember2843]

o.o

[@TheSaltyLibrarian]

S C A R C I T Y I S M A N U F A C T U R E D

[@michelleslay2701]

True!

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

RaymondtheA.I. That’s the diamond industry basically

[@seers1942]

hexatentacle at least they’re doing their part.

[@terpsidance.]

The most frustrating thing is not once when Thanos rant about his brilliant plan does anybody, not even Stark, point out why his plan is stupid.

[@Chronicpatchkids]

This is my main problem with Infinity War. Thanos is framed as having a point because no one comes up with a counterargument

[@FULANODETAL]

@@Chronicpatchkids well its hard to argue with a 8 feet tall alien ,who had murdered a lot of planets ...

[@xw591]

Just such a badly written character.

[@marseldagistani1989]

@@xw591 mediocre at best I say

[@lucyandecember2843]

Perhaps its cause they, as thanos, are also so entrapped within the systems of capitalism, that they cant imagine a world without it either. And so they, as thanos, cannot identify the core problem.

[@yourlocalbicronoverlord]

Thanos: Snaps half the universe to conserve resources Also Thanos: Snaps half of all bacteria (beneficial or not), plants (farmed or wild), animals (ranched, wild, or endangered), and specialized workers who could’ve spread resources and housing, thus destroying any future of actually saving any lives

[@Peter]

there's a massive surplus of good arguments in this video

[@sufferedsage]

The surplus of good arguments could keep breadtube in contentand video essays for a full year.

[@alexholguin2227]

thanks for sharing this video peter! always love finding a KZbin leftist to binge

[@JackgarPrime]

We should donate the surplus to centrists so they can learn the actual economic issues they face, while remaining willingly blind to solutions.

[@paperbackwriter1111]

are you using your comment to direct people's eyes to the spectacle of comic book movies so they understand how Malthusianism is bad?

[@Beery1962]

It's a distribution problem. The good arguments aren't getting through to the people who need to hear them.

[@Mnogojazyk]

If a eugenics program ever were implemented and it succeeded, the survivors would begin to turn on themselves. The criteria would be arbitrary and resistance would ensue.

[@1SaG]

Couldn't help but being reminded of what Rutger Bregman said at Davos about the absurdity of billionaires flying private jets to a summit to discuss climate change. And how the resulting discussion was akin to discussing how to put out fires - without once bringing up water.

[@oof-rr5nf]

Yes! I saw that video.

[@poutineausyropderable7108]

A private jet doesn't do that much polution compared to The rest. A billionaire could do more good then bad if he goes there.

[@skydroid3141]

@@poutineausyropderable7108 Billionares are the reason we are in this mess in the first place. They would do more good hanging on rope than breathing our air.

[@22sfs22]

@@poutineausyropderable7108 Sir, Ma'am or whomstever you are, the numbers are available. In 2022, the average celebrity produced about 3.3 kilo-tonne of equivalent CO2 polution just through their use of private jets, *just* the jets. To put that in perspective, according to pawprint, the average yearly production of a regular person from *everything* they do is 7 tonnes of equivalent CO2. Also long-distance conferences have been a thing since at least the radio was invented.

[@Replica_Rabbit]

People need to remember why they call him the Mad Titan, he didn't get that name because he was reasonable. It the killing joke all over again

[@gregorioguerrero1124]

He's not called "The Mad Titan" in the MCU, it doesn't apply to that interpretation of him.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@gregorioguerrero1124 Nooo...in GOTG Vol 1 specifically called him "the Mad Titan" while Gamora was being booked on Xandar.

[@blueaero3284]

Gregorio Guerrero well he was called an madman on his home planet

[@ANTSEMUT1]

The fact he is called the Mad Titan doesn't change the fact that the plot and the narrative of the movies frames his choice as ultimately necessary and that the heroes couldn't see the big picture.

[@GuamoKun]

@@ANTSEMUT1 it’s even more annoying when you see pseudo-intellectuals say things like “i understand his point of view” or “he’s charismatic”.

[@bramblecat]

I'm so tired of hearing that "Thanos is right" and "overpopulation is the real problem." Besides all the serious people/papers saying this, brother says this. Customers at the comic shop i work in say this. One of my bosses says this. So i really appreciate this video/information.

[@taragnor]

Yeah Thanos is a moron. Honestly even if he's right about overpopulation, his solution is stupid and short-sighted. The world's population used to be half of what it was, and it will replenish over time. He's just buying 100 or so years.

[@nicolestimothy9921]

Same here bro. Im sick and tried about that argument.

[@KingAaron04]

Overpopulation should NEVER be a reason to kill off or regulate births. The American west is absolutely huge, and yet the federal government won’t let that many people live there. All eugenics and overpopulation agendas are government created.

[@cayden114]

“We don’t have enough room.” “Have you ever heard of *Wyoming?* “

[@tabularasa0606]

We're not the only species on the planet.

[@martingammill-beck5846]

@@tabularasa0606 Your right. Were going to need to start taking care of our fellow living beings on this planet so that we don't kill them with our reckless use of fossil fuels, hunting to extinction, and introduction of invasive species.

[@CorbCorbin]

Very well done. The amount of food wasted, because disposable is cheaper, than giving it away, is staggering.

[@MyssBlewm]

Yeah, dumpster divers can be fined for grabbing food that is just going to landfills. The food is ripe or still in good shape but grocery stores and restaurant must throw unsold foods away.

[@katherinemorelle7115]

It’s not just that distribution of excess food is more expensive than destroying it- it’s that giving away excess will lower the value of what they do sell. It’s why they don’t just throw it away, they pour bleach on it first, or lock the dumpster- they have to make sure that no one can benefit from their excess, because they don’t want their product to lose value. Which is even more selfish and greedy. Also, in regards to the cost of distribution, there are charities that will go and pick up the excess- it costs no more than throwing it out. But... there’s a reason why so few companies take up the offer.

[@Berserker2070]

Sounds so familiar to something Aldous Huxley said, once upon a time.

[@Davesknd]

@@MyssBlewm It's not even just the dumpsters. The stuff that's kept lying around in orchards or on fields because of "aesthetic" reasons is staggering as well

[@xw591]

Even worse when you realize that food production is one of the biggest causes of climate change. Capitalist farmers & landowners just do what makes the most money rather than what benefits the most the people. So cows are literally farting our future away.

[@reemys.5696]

The interesting part is neither could the Avengers imagine a capitalism free world where everyone has at least their basic needs met but could only imagine snapping it back to the way it was. Great video by the way!

[@micramism6431]

i mean, look at who the most famous avengers who are framed as the "leaders" of the group are. 1. tony stark, billionaire capitalist. 2. steve rogers, america incarnate

[@truffeltroll6668]

Defenders of the status quo

[@lucyandecember2843]

o.o

[@simonegreco1958]

Normally, I would argue that wheter or not Thanos is right or wrong doesn't matter, but given that people seem to really believe that his plan is solid and the only reason not to act accordingly is because it's morally objectionable...yeah this was needed

[@HereComesPopoBawa]

The easiest and most universal argument against Thanos' mission is the ecological one.

[@CayeDaws]

Fucking mat pat.

[@ANTSEMUT1]

Yeah plenty of people are like yeah the ends justify the means, even though it ultimately doesn't change shit.

[@WingedWyrm]

Thanos's world almost certainly had the same problems. Thanos said that his solution to the problem of too few resources to too many people was a lottery that would be fair, specifically identifying rich and poor as those who would be equally at risk. The very fact of rich and poor would suggest that some have more resources, resources that they could give up, to solve whatever it was that was risking his world.

[@thegreatbaolmagician3032]

"It's easier to imagine the apocalypse, than imagining the destruction of the capitalism"

[@mavrospanayiotis]

That is why after apocalypse Hell is the only afterlife possible.

[@truffeltroll6668]

Kinda how we can imagine a cyberpunk future better than a solarpunk one.

[@The1Dragonprincess]

Maybe it’s because the books and films depicting the apocalypse won’t be banned and no one would go to prison under suspicion of being “Anti-American”.

[@toosolidcuuj]

Last month I was literally driving across Wyoming and thinking, "Overpopulation is the stupidest theory."

[@zolawilliams1]

Right? A huge chunk of Canada's population lives in like, 5 cities.

[@gerardanderson9665]

Wyoming doesn't even exist

[@beardedman1692]

All you have to do is fly and see how vast and empty this earth is.

[@chronoblue418]

It kills me how so many people are recognizing there are problems with today's living situations but are taking the wrong lesson that overpopulation is this issue.

[@TheSuperRatt]

We'll actually need to re-wild half the planet (if we want to avoid biosphere collapse), so I'd not use that line of thought to prove Thanos wrong. There are many others one could use to do that.

[@vfaulkon]

I used to work at a supermarket deli. One day, I had to help throw out a huge garbage bag - and I mean HUGE, like this thing could've fit a dumpster - filled with loaves of bread that had been baked that day and not sold. I asked how old the bread was, and after they told me I asked, 'so, why are we throwing it out? Couldn't we, like, re-package it and give it away instead or something?" "Nope, we trash it." "But if we're going to just throw it away anyway, why not donate it to, like, a homeless shelter or soup kitchen or something?" "We're not allowed to. It's against company policy." Being cheeky, I then asked, "Then can I take a loaf or two home?" "Only if you pay for it." That was approximately about the time I started seeing capitalism in a new lot. You really DO learn a lot on your first job...

[@shafkatahmed5420]

The story is so harsh,that I can hardly believe it.But I believe this happened,and it happens everyday

[@UncomfortableShoes]

Same sort of story. Worked part time at a movie theater in high school. We were throwing out hotdogs and asked if I could eat one. Manager said only if I pay for it. I wish I’d seen the light then.

[@Red_Orion]

I just remembered something: the agricultural sector (and I very conciously don't use the word farmer because most of our produce is in the hands of mega-companies that are destroying our planet and regular farmers) gets monetary incentives to waste what they produce. The best example I know is Switzerland where "farmers" get state subsidies. I've recently read a book where the author meticulously explains how Swiss farmers make more money by literally throwing away food or just plow it back into dirt than by selling the products and of course they'd never just give the food away for people in need. The more money a farmer "loses", the more compensation he/she receives so they let crops rot on the field (yes, literally). And wouldn't you know it, the one political party that is aaaall about the subsidies is the f*r-r*ght wingers who sometimes have their own agricultural companies or have friends who have farming conglomerates. These agri-capitalists enter the party and get elected because they're "for the people" and whatever nationalist fantasies they spout. The agricultural sector is a fucking lie. It's presented as "down to Earth" and "honest work" with local roots and idyllic good old days fantasies but it's a capitalist nightmare.

[@celieboo]

@Liz Lee yes. As a result of these harsh agriculture corporations, the suicide rate amongst chicken farmers and farmers in general is staggering and should be considered a national emergency.

[@basicsimp8798]

The fact that there are still people who thinks Thanos did nothing wrong, is just sad...

[@ricksandstorm]

Was I the only one comparing Thanos to Ayn Rand while watching the movie due to their background and later hatred of the society in which they grew up?

[@johnathonhaney8291]

You might, actually. Never thought of it myself but it fits. Worth noting: Rand started off her life from a place of privilege and spent the rest of her life justifying why she deserved to have it back. Can't help but think that Thanos was similarly privileged in the beginning.

[@Davesknd]

To be fair to Thanos here: I doubt that Rand would have stopped at half the universe

[@jstratton1981]

Why didnt thanos snap quadruple the resources into existence instead of wiping half of all life out? Better use of the reality stone if you ask me.

[@TitaniaBird]

The sad part is that as this video also mentioned, capitalist realism means that even if there were 4x the resources, it doesn't mean anyone would use them well enough to aid the increased population. That is the real problem that Thanos would still refuse to address.

[@renegadecut9875]

Well, if you watch the video, you will see that we actually do have enough resources, but that's not the problem either.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Fanatics like him never have that kind of imagination.

[@Aslianaa]

The other questions are really good, but also… You would destroy the universe by just making it one quadruple heavier. Also, it seems like the reality stone can only change the reality at the place, where he is? See knowhere, where Mantis and Drax are put together, the moment the stone leaves.

[@renegadecut9875]

No. Once Thanos had all the stones, he could do anything and anywhere. That is how he was able to snap his fingers and wipe out half the population -- not only where he is -- but across the entire universe. His proximity was irrelevant once he had all six.

[@kobaltkween]

I've argued these points to people numerous times, and they flat don't believe them. They keep saying, "No, it's really that there are too many people." Given that Covid-19 and the current for profit food system have now caused millions of animals to be killed without being made into food because the meat packing plants had to slow down, it's ironic how very few people get how incredibly wasteful a system made to optimize profit actually is.

[@Falstaff0809]

BTW: Eugenics was developed first in USA. We taught it to Nazi Germany.

[@jennifera6631]

Overpopulation concerns actually thinly veils deep rooted racism.

[@SpellCorrectly]

I've always viewed Thanos is the most extreme centrist. Ignore the main issue, and screw over the people it effects, enable fascists, just wants to grill in peace.

[@DavidRamirez-se2yt]

This is just a silly memey way too put it (I tend to lean left lately). The left takes the grill, the right takes the peace.

[@standowner6979]

Found one!

[@Irondrone4]

Wow. When I learned about Malthus in high school, we were not taught about his proposals to deal with overpopulation. We got to the "he was worried about overpopulation" part, and that was all.

[@Para2normal]

I'm always dissapointed by the lack of developement given to geothermal energy.

[@katherinemorelle7115]

We have some in Queensland, Australia. Not only is it a good source of energy, it’s created long term stable jobs in a rural community. Considering the regional flight issue Australia has (95% of the population lives on a very thin strip of the coast), it’s a massive benefit in more ways than one. Solar farms out in the Bush would also provide the same long term jobs. The crazy thing is that for all our conservative government goes on about “Jobs and Growth”, there’s actually more jobs in renewables. But then they wouldn’t get massive donations from Gina Rinehart- who is most well known for complaining that Aussies won’t work for $2 a day, and for driving Aboriginal people off their land so she can mine it. And now it looks like the world’s largest coal mine is going to go ahead in Queensland- owned by a very dodgy Indian company (they have an awful reputation, for environmental disasters and proven fraud). So they’ll be getting a royalties holiday and all the free water they could want (why not pay the dodgy company to mine our resources! That’s a great idea!). Oh, and the mine is right next to the Great Barrier Reef, with the port on the reef (they’ve already had coal leak into the surrounding water there), and the ships carrying coal will be travelling directly through the reef. Apparently it’s all worth it for the 1400 jobs it will create- but some are for the start up only, and most will be office workers in Brisbane. It’s going to be mostly automated, and they’ll bring in their own workers as much as possible. I’ll just note that the reef supports 70,000 jobs. Up against maybe a couple of hundred local jobs. It only makes sense when you consider political donations. Our politics are completely cooked.

[@herbertpocket8855]

I was under the impression that Geothermal only works in certain areas of the planet.

[@JoshuaShepherd]

In northern California we apparently have the 'world's largest geothermal field' in the geysers region of Napa, Lake, & Mendocino counties. It powers 60% of coastal California north of the Golden Gate.

[@anuvedantham7689]

@@herbertpocket8855 anywhere near a fault line can use geothermal.

[@HereComesPopoBawa]

Maybe everybody else was waiting for you to develop it. That is, if you don't have anything better to do.

[@nicholasbodo4327]

This is without a doubt the best analysis of Thanos I have seen. Anti-Capitalism and Anti-Eugenics all in one video. In all seriousness videos like are reason to why it is right to criticize villain protagonists with selfish hierarchical end goals that mainstream audiences sympathize with. Also Mark Fisher’s Capitalist Realism is one of the most relevant essays in the 21st century.

[@ANTSEMUT1]

It's not that Thanos is ultimately wrong in his assessment of the situation that irks me about the narrative, it's that it's that movies framed as a ultimately necessary choice to make to avoid doom and much of the audience agrees with Thanos.

[@tangeks5516]

white people

[@raccoonavi]

I think Thanos is an excellently made and very interesting character, and the fact that he is wrong but is so firmly rooted in his own beliefs and ego adds to it.

[@CorbCorbin]

20:07 That was just uncalled for. Sadly, I’ve witnessed someone do something similar. They were on a phone, kicked the man’s change cup, but just kept going without an apology. Probably a more common occurrence, than I even realize.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

I still burn over my experience of falling into barely functional poverty in the early part of this decade and hearing people like me called "takers".

[@ttubebaby]

More common to kick the cup intentionally then taunt their victim.

[@thomasw4422]

It was awful. What was with that suited guy. I would report him to his company if I could, given them an image problem.

[@NoReplyAsset]

@@thomasw4422old comment but this is very obviously stock footage involving actors. doesn't take away from the point though.

[@snate56]

Well, if it makes you feel better, they were both actors. Not that that doesn't happen in real life, though.

[@Aslianaa]

I love this video. Whenever someone asks, what I think of Thanos plan and actions I tell them: He is stupid. It will only take about 70 years before the population (at least of the earth) has doubled again. So what is the point?! He should rather have used the stone to help the people to distribute all the existing resources evenly… Now I can also just point them to this video, which explain this point excellently. Really well done and so good explained. Thank you.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

That's how fanatics with their "final solutions" always think. One big move like that and BOOM, problem solved.

[@POLE7645]

@@johnathonhaney8291 We live in a time where people wants solution that can fit under 240 characters.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@POLE7645 No, pal, simple solutions, in all times and eras, have ALWAYS been attractive. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to do some serious reading up on history beyond the pop culture understanding of same. The stuff that actually worked in the long run always started with the rejection of the notion that there was ever an easy out for the actual problem.

[@JeffMaziarz]

Well done. Depressing, but very well done. I especially like your conclusion that Thanos could have, indeed, solved the problems he saw in a way that didn't involve killing everyone, but lacked the ability to imagine it.

[@Twocogsmontgumry]

I hope Thomas Malthus was a Lord, because I'd love to think of people referring to him as "Lord Malthus". Yes, Lord Malthus, we have reintroduced the rakghoul plague.

[@Jack_Woods]

It's always so jarring that not even the most intelligent characters question his plan or tell him it's dumb and he could do better things to save the universe, they just talk, he says his goal and they act like "Damn, he's got a point... but I won't allow it!"

[@ryancier]

Let this be a lesson to us, next time anybody says any job market is "oversaturated".

[@RiggsBF]

To get this stone you must; demonstrate a basic understanding of economics! Thanos: NOOoooo!

[@ShadowPa1adin]

Great vid, Ren. There's something else about the popular reaction to Thanos that bothered me. Half of all life = half of all plants and animals used for food and other materials. The only resource not negatively affected by the snap are things like minerals and oil from long-dead animals. The only creatures that could possibly even be thought to benefit receive the benefit of 'avoiding eventual starvation" from Thanos's snap are the Sandworms from "Dune," The Transformers, the sentient Cars from Pixar's "Cars," and the Gorons from the Zelda games. Basically any form of sentient life that does not eat what we consider to be food. It actually would have been better if their bodies were left to decompose and take part in the freaking nitrogen cycle than to simply dry out into dust. Even when accepting Thanos' premises his plan is a poor one. He is not being rational. He is "The Mad Titan," not the "Sane Titan With Good Ideas We Should Listen To."

[@johannageisel5390]

I am still wondering whether artificial life forms are considered "alive" or not. Would Vision have been affected by the snap if he had not been killed before it?

[@astronaut7796]

​@@johannageisel5390Its explained in the Eternals movie that Eternals and Deviants didn't get wiped out by the snap because they are artifical beings. So yes, artifical beings like Vision all though appearing alive would not be affected by the snap because at the end of the day, they are man-made. The Eternals had emotions and even started relationships with each other and Humans, with some even having families. But at the end of the day its just programming to help them blend in and not act weird.

[@robotboy1722]

Thanos of the nineties of the nineties Infinity war will always have a special place in my heart. Because Thano's ideology was challenged by Adam Warlock. Nuff said. Oh and he didn't use the infinity stone to try to fix the world. He used the infinity stones to please death. Let that sink in for a moment.

[@nanahuatli2144]

After the snap, the surplus resources would be seized by the same people who already have too much of them.

[@cyrusmoghadassi9126]

I recall a Superman comic in which he acknowledges that for all his power and strength, the biggest and perhaps unbeatable enemy is human nature. Thanos, like a true strong capitalist can't see the real problem is greed. Interesting that ultra capitalist Iron Man is so important in this narrative. I wonder if the Avengers win by metaphorically changing the system.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Are you referring to the oversized tabloid by Paul Dini and Alex Ross, Peace On Earth? That one certainly tackled that question in spades.

[@anchoDePulso]

Infinite universe with infinite amount of living things. Thanos kill a half. The result is an infinite universe with an infinite amount of living things. I can't found any way of justify the Thanos plan.

[@HollowLily]

Gunwanti Ramchandani half of infinity is still infinity. That’s how infinity works.

[@jeffmacdonald9863]

@@HollowLily Still infinity, but a smaller infinity. Less living things in every part of that infinite space.

[@kolmorka]

About the "distrebution argument in food production": Also a lot of it has to do with the fact how modern agricultur produces so much Animals who intern need food and through that waste a lot of energy humans could use by eating the farmed plant foods directly

[@QwertyCaesar]

Yep, meat production is very bad for the species and the planet. We use farmland to make food that we then feed to animals that are on lands that could potentially be farmland and then slaughter those CO2 producing animals. In the future we're going to lose arable lands to climate change. We have to cut down our use of livestock to make up for that loss of arable land to maintain our level of food production. We can still produce the overall amount of food we produce, it's just that a lower percentage of it will be meat.

[@johannageisel5390]

If we distributed the food more efficiently instead of destroying so much of it, we could produce less which also includes keeping fewer animals which again require less food and arable land themselves. Instant win!

[@GenderCommie]

17:05 This is why the "wE doNT HavE EnOugH RoOM" argument has never worked on me. I'm from Wyoming, there's plenty of fucking room. Manhattan has more people per square MILE than the most populace city here

[@bluedotdinosaur]

It's worth considering that Thanos' madness is based around proving the universe was wrong and he was right - not around a rational idea of how to solve inequality. There are hints in dialog that MCU Thanos believed that people and government were also a problem - the rich preying on others to make society more unequal. His idea of randomly killing half of everyone, in a certain sense, might be seen by Thanos as "scaring the universe straight". Making sure that the wealthy and powerful came to know their positions in society wouldn't protect them from a form of "justice" and "balancing" like the one Thanos proposed. Factors like this could be taken to be what really drove Thanos more than just a simplistic belief in eugenics. In a sense, Thanos could be framed as a cynical nihilistic who still appeared calm and rational but had become quite detached from reality - delusional.

[@EmilyParagraph]

When I was about 13 or 14, the TMNT show on at the time had a villain that was dead set on manipulating the world around him and making super-soldiers that would slowly infiltrate the human race. He called them "superior" and they were modeled genetically and visually after himself. His goal was to save Earth from evil aliens. The Turtles confronted him and told him was an awful plan this was, and that he couldn't be sure that his genetic monstrosities wouldn't get false positives. The villain responded sure, but his calculations also said that things might be better off if ~45% of the population just disappeared, so he wasn't worried about that. I didn't know the word "eugenics" then, but at that moment I knew how vile, hypocritical, and disgusting it was. A decade or so later, I've refused to listen to anyone trying to tell me that Thanos had a point, and that he's as complex and sympathetic a villain as Kilmonger from Black Panther.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

You were a smart kid. But then some kids have a knack for recognizing bullies, no matter what form they take.

[@harrietamidala1691]

@@CrowTR0bot I have a feeling it's probably the 2003 version, the version I'm most familiar with, because it was darker.

[@SuperVladdrakula]

@@CrowTR0bot Definitely 2003.

[@blackfrost9011]

I’ve been trying to tell people this stuff for YEARS. Everyone, even my close friends and family acts like I’m crazy when I say the world isn’t over populated. Thank you for making this video.

[@themongol1263]

it doesn't matter. the billionaires have already decided it is

[@pluto545]

I love this video, and it's why I think social commentary should be sparingly, if it's not used clearly or understandably. This is why the comic book version makes way more sense. Who was motivated by means of passion to please "Death." Thanos commiting a crime of passion is so human and realistic that it would resonate. "Being obsessed with a person or thing" is always a good motivation for a villain. I cringe, when people say he's the greatest villain in film history. I'm like frozen.

[@fomoriii]

a really great, well argued video. although in arguments like this the point about how much 'nothingness' there is out there always makes me nervous - these spaces of wilderness arent doing nothing, even if theyre not doing anything obvious for humanity. its not just the rainforest we should protect, but also the prairies and the bogs. and in a world where we have more empty houses than homeless people, we dont yet need to get into the idea of tearing down massive areas of wilderness.

[@lumen8341]

You seriously deserve a standing ovation for this comment, gurl.

[@digitalutopia1]

It's important to understand the numbers here before automatically jumping into believing that this is an automatic threat to nature. There is a reason he used Wyoming as an example, as the US has some ridiculously low population density. France has 309 people per square mile. UK has 727. Even China, as large as it is, has 397 people per square mile. The US has only *94* people per square mile.

[@WhovianOrWhatever]

15:49 Fucking thank you! No one ever talks about that! Nuclear isn't that bad an option. It could be even safer and more energy efficient if politicians and companies weren't so cheap and lazy with it.

[@Eyewarp]

I really hope they confront Thanos about this in Endgame. Point out how ludicrous his plan was and tell him about all the possible alternatives. He's not gonna listen, of course (he's called the Mad Titan for a reason), but maybe it'll at least shut up some of his fanboys.

[@gerardrbain1972]

I hope they confront him about this fact in End Game too.

[@carlcarlington7317]

Rocket raccoon:"Thanos you killed half the world's population and pey are still hungry" Thanos: "the real issue is that people aren't cleaning there rooms"

[@ricopena2053]

If endgame doesn’t end with the avengers becoming eco conscious and using their powers and technology for the betterment of the entire planet, I am gonna be sad.

[@migvelv]

So, yeah, instead of that we got f a t t h o r

[@lindan.137]

Aaaannnnd they didn't. Because they can't think of alternatives. Because they think he's right. They think his method is wrong, but his underlying assumption is right.

[@mollylynch918]

Just signed up as patreon, these videos are so educational and helpful. Like this video was more comprehensive that most of what I learned in any economics/gov't class I've taken in school. I really hope people start to realize how capitalism impacts and control theses issues, that we can actually "solve" them if the small group in power were not solely motivated by greed. Thank you for making these videos!

[@Enigma2Me]

The only people who think his plan is wise are the people who think they wouldn't be a casualty.

[@RedMageUltra]

“Oh yeah, it’s one of those videos.” You mean the best kind of video??

[@daianmoi8528]

YESSS Loved the intro!

[@oncebluemoon]

I once worked at Sam's Club (a wholesale retailer owned by Wal-Mart corporation, I live in the US), and I worked in the bakery. I was, as part of my position, required to dump palletfuls of "expired" (not really expired, just past a sell by date), bread, pastries, or baked goods in a locked trash chute. I attempted to institute a process whereby I would transport the no longer sellable food to a local food pantry, signing off precisely what I would be taking including dates and products, and what I would be delivering to the food pantry who would then mark off an inventory of what they received (to ensure no theft or misuse). On my own dime, time, and with my own vehicle. Corporate management refused this, citing quite irrationally "People would then get the product from food pantries rather than purchase them in the store". Demonstrating an enormous disconnect between visitors of food pantries and people who would rather purchase fresh baked goods. I left the job long since but every day watching the hundreds of pounds of food fall into a dirty trash chute while people here and abroad starve, still sticks with me to this day.

[@thegreatestcrewmate9195]

One of the defenses of capitalsm I've seen is that it's efficient. It's not. It's really not.

[@cnacma]

The stats about the endless disposing of enough food to feed the whole world is disgusting beyond belief. I knew the US produced and wasted massive amounts of food but I didn’t know it was to this degree.

[@aazhie]

American Eugenics is a subject more school MUST teach. Tons of poor women were either strong armed or simply not told they were sterilized. Pretty sure two of my friends were allowed to get sicker by a doctor who didn't treat them quickly because they are PoC. Both had to be sterilized because their conditions were ignored and white women have not had the same issues in spite of being a higher percent of the population around here :C

[@deadcaliph6414]

The irony of it all is that Thanos or people like Thanos take a lions share of the resources of the places they claim ownership of. Being an emperor with a massive army, Thanos needs as much resources as he can have to maintain his conquests, this also means excluding himself and his servants from his wishes with the infinity stones. Therefore, no matter how many world populations he has halved, the problem of resources will remain as long as a powerful minority of dictators consume most of the natural wealth.

[@retrofuture1989]

So you're telling all the Avengers had to do was get Thanos to read Marx to defeat him.

[@charliechaplin6104]

Retro Future MAKE 👏 THANOS 👏 READ 👏 KAPITAL 👏

[@TStamp-lw4ku]

Well obviously but I noticed that a lot of people tried to rationalize his stupid plan just to prove that he’s some great villain

[@jafabian37]

Last time the population was half of what it was, was 1950. So if Thanos snapped his fingers, 70 years later we'd be at the same point.

[@chickrepelant]

"have you ever heard of WYOMING?!" i love this so much, you're amazing

[@GnosticTroubadour]

Great video! Eugenics is a very popular theme in lots of Hollywood films. It's amazing what the rich and powerful can convince themselves of. Keep up the good work my friend.

[@flahoo2807]

Thanos would have been considerably more intimidating if he aimed to destroy all life as some sort of twisted transcendence. His math is also wrong because of exponential growth. Life will explosively continue to spread regardless of his temporary setback.

[@ZIEIaou]

its not easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. but many stories, media etc that portray an apocalypse equate that with the end of capitalism

[@CADJewellerySkills]

You know your moral argument is dubious if it's perfectly in line with a cartoon supervillain.

[@lvl99paint]

"When there is nothing left to eat, the poor will eat the rich."

[@digitalutopia1]

and this is why they spend so much time and energy brainwashing as many of the 99% that capitalism is the best option.

[@Pretermit_Sound]

Shhh 🤫 keep that on the down low 😉

[@michaelslack8900]

There is always an appropriate Mitchell and Webb sketch

[@rotopope]

Michael Slack It’s like the XKCD of sketch comedy.

[@harrietamidala1691]

"Are we the baddies?"

[@Paroex]

@@harrietamidala1691 Not that one necessarily: Search for "killing the poor" instead.

[@rotopope]

Or even easier just check the video at 21:22.

[@TubezThe1]

"That's just how this system works." Yeah and maybe we should start questioning that.

[@austinhernandez2716]

In the United States and Canada, one reason cities are "running out of space" is because of single family zoning laws. The amount of space being available isn't the issue. The real issue is the local government deciding how and where people can live. This is likely influenced by the real estate industry, so back to capitalism.

[@Fournier46]

Wow, the arguments in this video got progressivley better, wasn't expecting this to be so good. 12 and 15 minute marks you made some memorable points I didn't know.

[@ravendreaming3966]

I loved the movie, but I feel they definitely should've pointed out he was wrong in universe?

[@brianbrush5107]

Gamora tells him he's crazy

[@Kikoberserk]

Thanos isn't just wrong, he is incredibly stupid and evil

[@EljorindoBergmite145-je6it]

he is just wrong.

[@Gadget-Walkmen-km5rc]

He is just wrong man.

[@bLUEtHANKYOURETURNASHSCR-qq4lo]

Thanos is evil is just wrong he is dunce and evil wrong WAY.

[@qwertyqeys]

when infinity war first came out and people were going around saying "thanos is a hero" I felt like I had stumbled into some kind of world where everyone's been concussed

[@BugLondon]

To clarify, Thanos in the comics wants to cull half the population of the universe because Death orders him to. He makes the same overpopulation argument as the film but his solution makes sense in that context since what he really wants is to help death and extinction is obviously a threat to the continued existence of Death. The main difference is that the comics never present this as being sympathetic. Thanos going incel mode is really only in the Infinity Gauntlet comic itself while he acts quite differently in the preceding comics. Thanos Quest which leads directly into Infinity Gauntlet explains it well as him choosing to get the Infinity Gauntlet greatly upset the power dynamic between him and Death. Actually making their relationship even worse. No woman wants a creepy man to have power over her. I was willing to give the writers benefit of the doubt when I first saw the film but all the interviews kept trying to emphasize how sympathetic they made him. Thanos isn't sympathetic in the comics but his relationship with Gamora was never abusive either. They made the relationship that way while attempting to portray Thanos as sympathetic. As time went on I fell they missed the forest for the trees in his characterization.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Read the early Jim Starlin material on Thanos and Gamora again before deciding the relationship is nonabusive.

[@BugLondon]

@@johnathonhaney8291 Comics Gamora was the amoral mercenary that Thanos intended to raise her as though despite that he was still shown to have given her some normal comforts as a child. And of course Nebula wasn't a factor. There was no hypocritical "passion" portrayed.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@BugLondon I say again...reread the early stuff. There is one particularly disgusting incident in Gamora being raised that led to her being to let herself be modified into the "most dangerous woman in the universe". No doubt the movie's writer used that as their starting point.

[@BoneMachine1443]

Thanks for this. Too often I see people who generally think of themselves as benevolent progressive types wrongheadedly talking about "overpopulation" without really thinking about the awful implications of what they're saying.

[@allendean9807]

I think that Gene Roddenberry had this idea for the future, where capitalism is gone, and the search for knowledge is paramount...

[@teucer915]

When you made this video, I was solidly a liberal who thought I didn't know *what* tweaks would fix the system but I believed they must exist. I was flirting with Georgism as an answer, and I still think that's clearly better than the status quo but it's actually still shitty. I wasn't a Malthusian, ever, so I thought dragging anti-capitalism into your rebuttal of that particular nonsense was unexpected and extra. This video was among probably a few hundred pieces of thought, some I saw before it and some after, some silly memes and some dense academic tracts and everything in between, that helped me realize it wasn't going to work that way. I'm an anarchist now. It's fascinating having the algorithm suggest it again now, and realizing that what once seemed startlingly radical is actually a very basic presentation of its premises in terms that I already accepted then. So here's a very belated thanks for what a great job you did of relating what I knew then to what I've learned since.

[@Georg3e]

Yay❤

[@lausenteternidad]

As a habitual viewer of Isaac Arthur videos about futurism and life in space, the idea of space lacking resources is so utterly stupid that I think Thanos has a second brain on his chin, cos the first one is dead.

[@enoughforeveryone2528]

I literally started a KZbin channel to say there's enough resources. Great vid m8.

[@FiveTiger]

Thanos has access to an infinite universe and eugenics is the best he can come up with

[@MauroEnfermoDeLepra]

I know this is trivial comparable with your bigger picture point, but even for Malthusian standards Thanos is incredibly wrong, he ignores the whole arithmetic/geometric growth dychotomy, by which halving the world population would only solve his imagined scarcity issue for less than a generation.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Correct...meaning he'd have to keep reimplementing his chosen solution every few years. Not much of an accomplishment.

[@spinyjustspiny3289]

@@johnathonhaney8291 And given the gauntlet is pretty fucked up after he does that Snap and seemed to take a toll on his body, he probably doesn't have more than three snaps of that thing total before it renders his arm a useless husk.

[@dominomasked]

Outstanding job, thank you.

[@nikenate123]

I’m watching this at 0628 in the United Kingdom and across the room I hear ‘bookchin’, my mind clicks and I go straight to an essay where just two nights ago I was studying his theory 😊 so random, but so cool! Vive La anarchism

[@JordanConley808]

I just found your channel a couple days ago. I have been binge watching since! Probably have watch 20+ videos in a few days.

[@renegadecut9875]

Make sure to sleep.

[@JordanConley808]

@@renegadecut9875 I do. I can listen at work. I put on your videos and put my phone in my pocket! I miss some pics, but I love your videos still. I have shared many.

[@dobb7101]

I have been looking forward to this topic ever since you mentioned that you were working on it. This was fantastic. Thank you.

[@danieldickson8591]

I mean, he is "the Mad Titan," not "the Debatable Titan." Thanos, despite being extremely intelligent, perceptive, and cunning, had been living with his delusion of saving the Universe for so long, he was no longer capable of seeing the logical flaws in his position. A fault not at all uncommon among humans, as well. But remember that Thanos' example of negative outcomes isn't Earth, it's his home world of Titan, where the disaster he predicted actually came to pass. Whether it came to pass for the reasons Thanos believes is another issue.

[@ANTSEMUT1]

The movies doesn't frame it that way though, the movies makes Thanos's plan as ultimately necessary or at the very least very sympathetic motivation.

[@austinhernandez2716]

I worked at Hardee's and the employees weren't allowed to take cooked food leftover after the restaurant closed. Most of my managers didn't care, we all didn't it anyways. One of them very was very strict though, the nerdy guy that acts cool because he knows all the rules... But the fact that such policy exists is crazy

[@JohnSavant]

"Malthus was Thanos" - exactly, both Marx and Engels obliterated his population theory. Since we live in reactionary times where any mention of Marxism is blasphemous, it's no wonder Thanos's nonsense has gained a following.

[@MRCKify]

How about the first quibbler with Malthus, David Ricardo?

[@Anaheylaatyahoo]

Thanos should have snapped the rich people out of existence and the world would be perfect. ;p

[@DustyMusician]

No one: Thanos: I hate the poors >:(

[@NativeTexMexican]

It's not a lack of resources... Its an overabundance of greed.

[@lkf8799]

Oh my god, dude, why did I watch this video right before bed! Woke up at 6 in the morning and I couldn't stop thinking about all this stuff! Dammit!

[@theNickRYG]

I wish the Christchurch shooter could have seen this. I know it may just be wishful thinking but i think some of the points in this video could have had a positive impact on them if they got the message early enough.

[@Gemini_Samura1]

If anything is going to change, money needs to be taken out of politics.

[@bluegreenglue6565]

These points are exactly why our current election cycle in the U.S. is probably the most important that has yet occurred. In my experience, "depression" is strongly related to our understanding that we have zero control over the most urgent circumstances of our lives. We exist only as money-generating machines for the owners of our food sources, our medical care, our rented living quarters, and the companies for whom we work. I was listening to Rush's "Closer to the Heart" yesterday on my way to work (after visiting my husband in the hospital where he's waiting to hear what new horror he must undergo, along with the survival percentages that somehow never bring us cheer). "the men who hold high places must be the ones who start to mold a new reality closer to the heart." None of us is excused from doing our part, but it's those at the top who either crush our efforts or support them. When we're told that voting is our only means of achieving a better life, it's time we demand candidates whose goals are equal to ours.

[@Krypto_Dogg]

Weird Thanos retired to secluded land. I don’t know if it was a farm, but he could have used that land to grow more food instead of just sulking.

[@derekcampbell2686]

Could Thanos is gauntlet not have increase the amount of natural resources?

[@StCrimson667]

To the point of how we get nuclear isotopes, we've actually invented ways to draw nuclear isotopes out of sea water. Nuclear, right now, is practically a renewable resource and some models actually predict that next-gen thorium reactors will actually draw carbon dioxide out of the air as they work!