That Dang Love Triangle | Wings of Fire Discussion

[@AnakinRodrigues]

tbh if your entire tribe’s ancient enemy who started a huge war that was still ongoing, and proceed to be hypnotized by him and see so many of his evil doings, then proceed to be told that “he’s not that bad” by your friends, i can see why winter joined his tribe instead edit: just remembered the ancient enemy of your tribe who’s “not that bad” sent a huge plague towards your kingdom, killing your queen and many others. plus winter and the icewings had a huge reason to suspect darkstalker was creating an army to wipe out your tribe so thats another reason ig

[@avacornthelastponybender8583]

Dude, I've been saying that for years😂

[@volrosku.6075]

Winter may still be a little idy around the edges but his rantings by book 10 are all on point the vase scene specifically tell me what winter said was wrong in any way? and when Moon took Qibli to confront darkstalker Winter knew he lost (book ten epilogue if you need the citation) so helping Hailstorm who was embroiled in a deadly battle is more inline with his character than sitting around and waiting for Qibli and Turtle to figure out the right spell to use.

[@LannyLeArtist]

Yeah

[@pyronuke4768]

Right, it's not an entirely out of character thing for him to do, it's just the framing feels very -- deliberate for lack of a better word -- to paint Winter in the wrong.

[@MahsaKaerra]

I kind of understand why Winter would join the Icewings near the end of book 10. After Moon said to his face that she said she thought Darkstalker wasn't all that bad, despite having just been told about the magic plague and mind control spells... and for Qibli's part he acted as if Winter was wrong for being emotional about it. Some friends they turned out to be, eh. But at least he has his brother, Hailstorm. The one remaining dragon who was on his side, willing to put his own position at risk by agreeing to lie on Winter's behalf at the end of book 7.

[@pyronuke4768]

Yeah, but you can't deny the whole situation feels like a contrived means for Tui to get Winter out of the climax so she doesn't have to deal with him.

[@Littlefox1213]

How book 10 handled Winter felt messy to me. His character arc felt ignored or it just didn’t happen at all. And it’s worse that most of the time his angst for Darkstalker is doubted. Now, I know Moonwatcher was manipulated by Darkstalker but she read what he did wrong, and she didn’t have that faulty spell put on her. She still could be defending him because he’s the only mindreader and prophet she knows but she should at least acknowledge what Darkstalker is doing to the IceWings is shit. It’s been a while since I’ve read Darkness of Dragons so I don’t remember much that happens in the book lolz. So yeah, Winter’s character arc was treated like fox dung and I wish his friends cared more about his personal fears, and in all honesty I just wish Winter wasn’t just known as the grumpy guy in the friend group. Winter personally isn’t my favorite character, just wish he was handled better as a character. My opinion on this might change as I’m starting to really not like Qibli’s POV. Qibli in book ten didn’t feel ‘Qibli’ to me.

[@pyronuke4768]

@@Littlefox1213 I agree with you threre. Darkness of Dragons acts like it has no clue what to do with Winter. His character pinballs between like three or four different motivations based on what the script needs in the moment; the first half he volunteers to help Qibli but then he just kinda stands around like a third wheel and is basically just there so Qibli has someone to quip with, and then once they connect with Moon he turns into someone for the audience to root against. Even Qibli, the book's POV, is pretty inconsistent with how he views Winter throughout the book, sending a ton of mixed signals to the audience; like the time Winter advises against using the bracelets to make a sandstorm which Qibli ignores, or how quickly he brushes off Winter's serious reality check as him just being mean. I think Winter is an interesting character who had a lot of good potential for growth, and I'm left disappointed with how often it seemed like Tui kept backsliding into old habits with his writing.

[@Littlefox1213]

@@pyronuke4768 Right. I think in book 7, Qibli seemed to understand why Winter is the way he is, given with Winter’s tragic background. I’m not as comfortable with Qibli either in his own book. And yes, Winter did feel a bit out of place in the tenth book. After a while you seem to forget that Winter’s under Darkstalker’a influence since it’s not quite obvious with how he acts; aloof, edgy.. It’s just-what was Darkness of Dragons trying to do with him? It would’ve been way, way better if Winter had acted the way he did in the third part of book seven, it’d show his growth as a character at least. Guess what I’m trying to say is, despite Winter Turning being incredibly boring, I think it did quite good with the character dynamics. They felt more there than Darkness of Dragons

[@skyladragon8849]

I mean, Moon was still willing to see the good in Darkstalker after finding out he’d brainwashed Winter - she doesn’t exactly “deserve” him either XD Also, Winter didn’t get much handed to him? Growing up royal is one thing - being expected by your family to memorize whole historical sagas when he was 2 (WT, pg40 ish) with failure to do so meaning more abuse/risking homelessness feels like the opposite of that? I’m not saying Winter is perfect or justified - I’m just saying his trauma is often overlooked despite it being perpetrated by his friends, too.

[@watermelon3914]

never ask a man his salary. never ask a woman her age. never ask a wings of fire fan,"moonbli or winterwatcher?" OR qinter as a bonus. OR wether glory and deathrbinger is okay. OR wether darkstalker is a villian or not- i could make a whole dang list.

[@FIamboyance]

Darkstalker is DEFINITELY a villain, I agree on the others tho lol. Here’s more: Never ask a WoF fan whether Sunnyflight/Glorclay is adoptive incest, or whether scavengers/ humans should be as big a part of the series as they are, or which one of the SandWing sisters is the best queen. Yeah, there are a lot of them.

[@watermelon3914]

​@@FIamboyanceyup. ive got more: was moonbli rushed? was blicket rushed? sunnyflight or starspeaker? was winter mean? is deathbringer 13 or 9???????? like, i would be decaying in my bibble decorated grave by the time i wrote down all the arguments. (yes you read the bibble grave right🙃)

[@mushroomleg3151]

@@FIamboyance i've seen most people recognize Blister as the best option. as Glory mentioned in book 5, if you were on decent terms with Blister you would be fine. she's smart, and could rule the tribe for a long time. a huge flaw though; she might choose not to have any female dragonets. after all, no heirs, no dragons to dethrone her. this could easily lead to a repeat of the Mudwing succesion crisis and the war could be restarted with separate parties from around the kingdom trying to take the throne, like Onyx (with Vulture), maybe even Thorn and the Outclaws. None of the three were good choices, though, and the Sandwings are lucky they got Thorn.

[@theunpopularopinion9833]

I have similar thoughts regarding this love triangle. When I first read Arc 2, I was all for Winterwatcher, to the point where I refused to finish the Arc once I heard how it ended. Years later, when I decided to give Arc 2 another chance, I kept a close eye on the love triangle to form my own opinion on it. When it was over, my ultimate conclusion was: the love triangle never should have happened. Winter's crush on Moon made absolutely no sense given how much he bullied her without ever apologizing for it, and while he was justified being angry at Moon when he learned she was friends with Darkstalker, accidentally hurting her and then expecting an apology from *her* right after never sat right with me and only showed that, despite his character arc in Winter Turning, he still had many problems he needed to sort out, and was definitely not ready for any sort of relationship (him being under Darkstalker's spell since Talons of Power certainly didn't help). Ultimately, I didn't blame Winter for choosing to fight alongside the IceWings. I viewed that moment as him feeling betrayed and wanting to protect his only family member that still cared for him, that being Hailstorm. With Qibli, meanwhile, there was more chemistry to be had, if only a little. Moon and Qibli spent more time together since the beginning, and while Qibli did have doubts about Moon once he learned about her powers, he ultimately accepted them, and stood by Moon's side more often than not. While the romance itself was rushed (an unfortunate staple within WOF as we all know, with a few minor exceptions), it made more sense for Moon and Qibli to get together, and its honestly pretty cute. While the idea of Qinter is amusing, its just a fun meme overall. While the banter between Qibli and Winter is great, I didn't sense any romantic tension between them, only sarcastic flirting on Qibli's part. They work better as friends. Overall though, I really wish there wasn't a love triangle at all, given how convoluted and one-sided it turned out to be. Tui should've just stuck with one relationship and built on it throughout Arc 2.

[@shinymk6562]

Darkstalker:Legends shows that Tui does have a hood talent for writing romance---and tragic romance especially---into her story. The thing is that the whole point of Darkstalker was his fall, and showing the tragedy of it, woth a big part of that tragedy being him loosing Clearsight in trying to gain the world. In the main series, the romance is just there and isn't really a oart of the plot, while Darkstalker caring about his family and friends, (to an almost obsessive level,) is. He really loved Clearsight and wanted to protect his loved ones, which led him to take drastic action like mutalating his father with magic because of what Artic did to Whiteout. So having him loose them all in the end because he refused to listen to them and truly care about how they felt was poetic irony. He wanted what he thought they needed/was best for them, instead of listening to them and their concerns about him, as well as how they wanted to live their lives. This basically just turned into saying how great that book is for the 100th time, but it shows that if Tui builds a olot around romance, it can work. She can definitely also find ways to fit it into her story, or if she can't, maybe its best just not doing it at all.

[@eclipseiyy]

When most people address this love triangle, they’re usually always saying how Winter doesn’t deserve Moon/he would be bad/toxic, etc. But I never hear anyone talking about how MOON would be bad for Winter. Moon still sees good in Darkstalker, even when finding out that he sent a plague to the Icewings and BRAINWASHED Winter. That part of the book honestly made me feel really annoyed with Moon, and made me rethink the whole ‘Moon is good for Winter but Winter is bad for Moon’ thing. I also can definitely see why Winter chose his tribe over his ‘friends’ at the end of book ten. To me, Moon chose to trust Darkstalker, who was clearly evil and had undeniably done MANY evil things in his life, over trusting and listening to Winter. I’m assuming Winter probably felt a bit betrayed by that, when Moon decided to trust an evil, all powerful manipulator and murderer over him, and that’s why he fought with the Icewings in the battle instead of staying with his friends. He felt they didn't trust him for being RIGHT about Darkstalker, so he decided not to trust them enough to be along side them during the battle. Now, I’m not saying winter would be good for Moon either, because he has trauma and problems(which I feel are really overlooked) that he has to deal with, and he was also down right HORRIBLE to Moon in book six, and was pretty mean at some times to her outside of that book. He probably would have been a not so great choice for Moon, but that doesn’t mean she’s perfect for him either. That is just my opinion though, and you’re obviously allowed to disagree.

[@Littlefox1213]

That’s another thing, the fact that Winter’s obvious fear of Darkstalker is hardly acknowledged. Especially after he’s free from the spell, him being extremely angry at Moonwatcher for still siding with Darkstalker is kinda justifiable. (But still dude, tone down on the yelling a little bit) Quite a bummer that Qibli choose NOT to tell Moonwatcher that Darkstalker put that plague on the IceWings, Winter had to blurt it out! Like, what the fuck?

[@eclipseiyy]

​@@Littlefox1213 True, true. His anger is 100% justified, and I have felt like his fear of Darkstalker is overlooked I don’t know why Qibli planned to hide the plague from Moon(I might be remembering wrong cuz I haven’t read that book in a hot minute, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t plan to tell her), because that is something Moon definitely should know. So even though the way Winter said the truth about the brainwashing and the plague might not have been the best way to bring the news to her, still, she had no right to still side with Darkstalker after seeing how fearful Winter was because of the spell.

[@eclipseiyy]

@@Littlefox1213 also, I can see why Winter had just blurted it out like that. He was so scared and angry he just couldn’t help but blurt out a whole bomb of information on Moon, who probably was feeling very shocked and overwhelmed by the news and just wanted to refuse the idea of her friend doing something so terrible, and that’s why she sided with Darkstalker. Even though it’s wrong, I can still understand somewhat why she acted the way she did, even if I don’t agree with her.

[@lk_3099]

Even if Moonbli was the healthiest outcome, I failed to see any romantic chemistry between the two until one scene in book 15. I only saw them as friends for most of their screentime, even after they got together.

[@MadisonNiederer]

True, but it is a book meant for kids soo... yeah.

[@lk_3099]

@@MadisonNiederer That's not a valid excuse. There's a few good examples of couples showing romantic affection between each other, like Sundew x Willow and Fathom x Indigo. They only need small descriptions or scenes to show the romantic side.

[@mothwingthemedicinecat]

i really don't blame Winter for wanting to fight with the IceWings, like his tribe could have been wiped out, he didn't want to sit there and do nothing. there are IceWings Winter does like, like Hailstorm, and Winter wouldn't want to lose him again. I don't blame him for getting mad at Moon either, i would be angry if i heard someone trying to defend a dragon that brainwashed me, and was trying to wipe out the tribe while not even being brainwashed herself. so it was her own thoughts. I don't really blame Moon either though, she trusted Darkstalker as a friend

[@wolfrosefrost5475]

last I checked, Winter wasn’t that privileged in his society despite being a prince, especially considering how similarly his and Qibli’s pasts are, albeit with events in reversed order.

[@ПавелКратиров-ф6с]

If Wings of Fire ever taught me something important, it's definitely that you should never, f****** never add love triangles to main characters of your story. A headache to write, plus will cause fans of your project to go insane arguing about who characters should sleep with...

[@amaankhan4535]

My biggest problem with the love triangle is how it treats Winter. It would definitely be for the best if he and moon dont end up together, but his personal issues are largely done for the sake of making qibli look better, rather than giving a reason why winter and moon are better off as friends. I believe it would have been significantly better if Winter acknowledges his issues and decides himself that its best to remain friends with Moon, and perhaps even encourage her to be with Qibli for the sake of their hapiness. This would be a nice callback on how Qibli tended to let winter and moon be together in certain moments. As controversial as the arc 1 love triangle was, at least there was proper closure for all the characters involved. Winter on the other hand, does not get any satisfying closure, as he is merely ousted as both an arrogant jerk and loser in the love triangle, which is a huge disservice for his character arc and makes his book almost entirely pointless.

[@ZeFloofiest]

6:55 I think the main reason to why I personally ship Winter and Moon is simply cause of Arctic x Foeslayer since it almost seems to be parallels to each other. One is an Icewing, one is a Nightwing. One is light, the other is dark. Both tribes hate each other and starting, well, a war that basically lasted for thousands of years till Arc 2 and it's protagonist finally stop it. I would also make the connection that instead of Winter getting powers like Animus magic like Arctic, Moon got powers unlike Foeslayer with her able to read minds, somehow tell prophecies or future sight kinda, etc. Mainly I just like the contrast of the colors, white and dark, personalities, etc.

[@RainbowRatArt]

The thing I hate most about the love triangle is that it doesnt seem to care how moon feels. Does she even like either of them romantically? Its barely shown at all any chemistry from her end. She pretty much always treats both of them as friends. I don't get arguing who would be better when i feel its more important to figure out if she even feels anything romantic to anyone. It honestly always makes me feel really sad that in the epilogue she feels like she should pick one to settle any hurt feelings rather then picking how she feels. Really hate wof romances that are just a character thinking non stop about another while barely actually talking to them (this annoyed me so much witb quibli because his thoughts would never shut up about moon) Overall she shoud have ended up with neither and quinter should have been canon

[@pyronuke4768]

Yeah, you better find Qibli's constant inner monologue of "MoonMoonMoonMoonMoon" endearing because otherwise it gets old really quick.

[@ChickenScratch-Feathers]

I love the thumbnail, it's very well put together!! Can't wait to see these, reading arc 3 and watching the love triangle play out was an interesting part of the arc. I just wanted them all the be the best of friends and be happy 🥲

[@avacornthelastponybender8583]

Qibli: "I'm not good enough for you, you should date Winter" Moon: "I don't WANT to date Winter, I want to date you!" Winter: "Yeah, I don't blame you"

[@badgerdax1763]

I remember reading the series and the only thing that ever stuck out to me was Quibli tease-flirting with Winter every now and again, and Winter's constant "I love her but I hate her" thoughts constantly thrown Moon's way... I was equally just as blindsided when Moon and Quibli ended up together, I hadn't expected it at all. Even now I don't truly believe any of them work other than as fun little teases, but seeing any of them as a genuine relationship really sours the story they told overall. Their dynamics were fun platonic, but was disappointed when they actually made an endgame pair.

[@avacornthelastponybender8583]

Never understood people joking about Winter only losing his Tribism as if it's some small thing The dude was raised in a society where the idea that every other tribe is beneath you was drilled into your brain & apparently even associating with them was enough to lower your social status I think the fanbase is SERIOUSLY undermining Winter getting over all that in like a week

[@Reptile2107]

My thoughts: Winterwatcher - Could have been interesting, but their personalities don't fit together and both characters can be massive assholes to each other. Moonbli - The worst of the ships for me. Qibli just starts liking Moon for no reason and they had barely any romantic chemistry. Their dynamic isn't very interesting and don't improve each other in a meaningful way aside from regular friends. Even in Arc 3 where they're meant to be a couple, they still act like good friends aside from 1 scene in the epilogue of book 15. Although I'll give it props for this: it isn't unhealthy, unlike some other ships in the series (lookin' at you Glorybringer) Qinter - The best of the ships. Their are very fun to watch and their dynamic is more interesting than Moonbli or Winterwatcher. Both of them were treated as worthless and were abused by their parents, but they reacted to it in completely differently from one another. This makes their dynamic interesting, since Winter and Qibli can both relate to each other and at the same time learn a lot from each other. Waiting to get massacred in the replies.

[@Littlefox1213]

@@Reptile2107 I agree with all these points, Moonbli especially! I don’t mind it, but their romance doesn’t feel well developed. The two were very clearly just friends in book six and both Moonwatcher and Qibli didn’t seem to think that much of each other romantically. Tui should’ve explored their dynamic more rather than saving it for book 10. There could be small moments between the two in the backgrounds

[@pyronuke4768]

@@Reptile2107 I agree with most of this, the only thing I half-disagree on is that Moon and Qibli don't have any chemistry. I think they do, but Tui never really explores it beyond a superficial level.

[@NTTN63010]

I’ve been waiting for a video like this, keep up the good work Charcoal

[@moon.rising.on.pintrest]

3:57 relatable🗣️🗣️🔥🔥 Anyways I kinda just ship them all together, in the end everyone is “happy”

[@DinoTamer-22]

I can definitely see why moon would choose Qibli over winter, but my question is why do both boys like moon? From a writing stand point she seems like the typical mary sue, can do no wrong and all the boys love her. But why? Even when reading qibli’s book I still didn’t see it. Sure she’s pretty but otherwise? Idk. Still I think the ship is cute even if it’s not super relevant to the plot.

[@Littlefox1213]

Must be because Moon’s only had one POV, in the book where she met Qibli and Winter so of course she didn’t think much about it. And again you’re right, after her book there’s no subtle lines about how Moonwatcher reacts to either Qibli or Winter, or maybe barley. Like, there’s no change in body language or how she speaks to them. Moonwatcher sounds.. very not like herself through the rest of the ARC too lol? Like, she doesn’t feel like a character, more so someone to juggle around. Especially because her powers are no longer relevant since the prophecy’s been leaked. (I mean I’m rereading the series now maybe I’ve missed something idk.)

[@pyronuke4768]

I am a staunch believer that Qibli and Moon didn't have much chemistry until like Book 14.

[@meeplol145]

I really didn’t like the love triangle in arc 2 and felt like it was shoehorned in for some romance drama. Moonwatcher doesn’t really have chemistry with either of them or even feels that close to them. She still feels like a stranger and they still don’t know all that much about her anyway. She becomes boring after her book and feels like such a nothing character and is only there is push the plot forward and nothing else. Quinter is so much better because they actually have a relationship and chemistry. They also come from similar backgrounds in regards to how their family treated them. It’s just a shame Winter sort of just.. stood in the background during Quibli’s book and didn’t do much. And there’s the fact Moon says she didn’t think what Darkstalker did was all that bad and like- are u kidding me? I mean, yeah, she was most likely manipulated by Darkstalker into thinking that but it’s still messed up for her to say, in front of Winter especially.

[@Littlefox1213]

It’s also because in the timestamp of one book, that book being book six did Qibli and Winter start crushing on her(more say Winter). They’ve only knew this NightWing for a day and are immediately smitten with her. And yeah, their feelings for Moonwatcher felt incredibly one-sided. They knew only one thing about Moonwatcher, that she was a NightWing who may or may not be plotting to kill someone.

[@pyronuke4768]

I agree. Moonbli should work on paper, but in practice it is so underdeveloped. The books are incredibly vague about what the two boys see in Moon that it comes off like they're just being total simps, and the constant *Moon-Moon-Moon-Moon-Moon* of the inner dialouge got old really fast. Like, it wasn't until later on in Book 15 that it felt like there was a genuine spark between them.

[@Littlefox1213]

@@pyronuke4768 Yes! The constant thoughts of Moonwatcher drove me insane when I read books seven and ten lol!

[@monalux9754]

I’m a quinter truther for life, their chemistry is gold

[@exoticraptor9436]

This is one of the reasons im content that Tui is a producer of the tv show and not the lead writer. Things like these can be reworked, remove, or elaborated on more to fit into the story better with other people writing. That, along with the format of a show allowing for more time of characters and plot beats to develop everything properly. Well, that is if the writers care enough about the property. Still scared of that possibility.

[@bayzul7405]

Love triangle as a stain does explain me ranking Escaping Peril fairly high among Arc2. Minus finally Peril getting action, it's a detour with very minimal Qinterwatcher (making Winter crispy) which is a fine breath of fresh air to adventure. The others do their own strengths setting up JMA and towards Darkstalker, but it's refreshing.

[@PiritenotPyrite]

I was watching this while drawing and then i just perked up immediately when i heard the monster hunter music

[@VideoGameStarChannelSupreme]

I finished rereading book 7 and I can confidently say that the material was there for a winterwatcher romance to complete, with Qibli acknowledging the existence of their romance and Winter finally realizing that his friends are more worth being with than the majority of his family and the IceWing tribe ~~which reminds me a fuckton of Japanese culture~~ But I read through some of the comments and I can see how things would have turned out not so great. I think I'll make a more personal opinion of it but I think I'm fine whichever of the three happens, i personally like polyamory and wouldn't mind seeing all the possible combinations come to life in all kinds of AUs.

[@00loneX]

The Winter in book 14 is where his character should have been near the end of arc 2. Dumping the most significant parts of his character's growth off screen is still one of Tui's worst writing blunders. I honestly blame the love triangle for it too, because of the whole bad boy who needs to be fixed trope. If the TV series ever adapts arc 2 I hope to everything good in the world that someone convinces Tui to just delete the love triangle and focus on Moon and Qibli's budding relationship (which also suffers because of the triangle). Winter's arc is far more interesting when its removed from a pointless love subplot, or instead have him show interest in someone else if Tui insists every character needs a ship.

[@mal7004]

Honesty Moon and Winter are BOTH horrible for each other. They both lacked trust of eachother and did some pretty terrible things to eachother. Winter treated Moon HORRIBLE especially in books 6 and 7. Then Moon defended Darkstalker multiple times when he was alive. In the end Winter did try to become a better, aswell Moon finally came to terms that Darkstalker was a terrible person. Winter and Moon were not a good match for each. Winter hurt Moon many times, and Moon defended Darkstalker after everything. Winter was not ready for a relationship, and him and Moon were NOT a good idea.

[@leewoong25]

One thing I would like to acknowledge is that in the coloring book it shows Winter giving moon the dang earring. I hate it. So out of context but it fits with “winter watcher” and I how I hate it.

[@Littlefox1213]

I don’t have the official coloring book but it sounds like that the IceWing giving the NightWing a earring could’ve been Arctic and Foeslayer. Moonwatcher was never given an erring as she wasn’t under a spell. Unless the NightWing had a tearmark next to her eye idk

[@mothwingthemedicinecat]

i don't really think moonbli had chemesity, i reread wof recently and i felt like Moon had more chemisty with Kinkajou, and Qibli with Winter. i personally felt like they where a bit rushed in book 10, i dont think Winterwatcher should have happened either to be clear, Qinter and Moonjou are my ships

[@VideoGameStarChannelSupreme]

Imagine someone suggesting Moonkajou xD I see them as good friends and they really worked well together in book 6

[@pyronuke4768]

I like the destination but dispise the journey. Qibli and Moon are a great ship, but it doesn't really come into play until Book 10, where it feels like Tui waited till the last minute before committing to the bit, because the first half feels like it's stalling and the second is speedrunning. Imo Book 10 didn't do a good job of explaining why Qibli is so infatuated with her and he comes off kinda like a simp; Moon is stuck on a pedestal by the narrative and treated like she can do no wrong, completely dodging any consequences for her actions; Winter pinballs between like three or four different motivations with no consistency, going from a supportive best friend to a borderline antagonist at the drop of a hat. Imo the triange feels like it was something Tui thought would be interesting to include, but in execution had no idea how to pull it off and just winged it, and the story as a whole kinda suffers. Either pick a lane and commit or drop it entirely.

[@NNNNNNNNNNNNNNl]

Hi, new videos from your channel are always like a refreshing reunion with a childhood friend.

[@hoc2498]

Three years between the first book and the last book in the arc. We had it so good.

[@flawlesskids7825]

Winter watcher. Toxic, but interesting. Moonbli. Cute, and non toxic. QUINTER. YES

[@Qibliisthebestwof]

THANK U , I NEEEEDED this

[@keno9636]

No matter what a "white-knight" Winter is. He still was often incredibly mean to Moon. Emotional, yes.butt uncalled for. She deserved someone as kind as Qibli

[@GreenDragonInstitute]

Should have been poly.

[@AntidoteUppermiss]

I second this, there’s nothing wrong with a poly relationship tui,

[@VideoGameStarChannelSupreme]

Book 7 kinda gave me the impression that Qibli cared a lot about Winter when it seemed like he intentionally gave Winter and Moon alone time together, so I get the feeling that Qibli read Winter's body language and knew that Winter wanted to love Moon like a lover. So, a polyamorous relation could have been possible if their stories continued past (or if you continue it in your own AU) arc 2, but as far as I've heard, arc 3 happened and nuked half of what made the first two great. It's something when you go to the wiki to see if anything happened in arc 3 to some characters you're writing and most of them just stop existing after book 10.

[@FireflyOnyx]

I've been a Qinter truth since I first read the arc, they actually have chemistry while the ships involving Moon do not. Moon is honestly incredible boring after her book outside of her friendship with Darkstalker.

[@LilyMilo-u2q]

I say with confidence that yes, this whole love triangle thing is really confusing for me. I had to read arch 2 about three or four times to fully understand it. While the idea of Qinter is hilarious, and Moonbli is cute, I support Winterwatcher. It had some great potential, but in paper Moonbli it is.

[@Jelloishereee]

i cant stand love triangles GOD HELP ME

[@TheForbiddenTreasury]

Did anyone else ship turtlewatcher

[@Littlefox1213]

For like I split second I did Too bad Tui didn’t continue their dynamic

[@TheForbiddenTreasury]

@Littlefox1213 I know turtle staying and helping moon even after reviling her powers them both struggling with the secret of there powers would have bean a good dynamic

[@Littlefox1213]

@@TheForbiddenTreasuryYeah now that you’ve mentioned it they had a lot in common -bookwrorms -keeping a huge secret hidden to themselves only -holding onto some forms of anxiety Their dynamic could’ve been quite platonic

[@TheForbiddenTreasury]

@@Littlefox1213 also I love there ship name

[@Littlefox1213]

@@TheForbiddenTreasury yeah it’s cute and creative lol

[@FourteenAttempts]

...I don't like any of the 3 characters. Moon is cool, but in my eyes she kinda gets slaughtered after her book. Winter is always a jerk and loses his only personality trait after arc 2. And I hated Qibli right from his interactions with Peril in book 8. So there.

[@reptilerocket6856]

Fair

[@Oyster_the_SeaWing]

Can't wait for Sunny V.2 🤗

[@Watcherobot]

I actually like that they still view him as a big douche while also being one of their best friends, it ads a bit of grey to our protagonists because let's be honest we all love WOF, and so do I, it's my favorite series, but all of the main POV's (apart from Winter, Snowfall and Sundew) are all pretty much good people through and through

[@Littlefox1213]

@@Watcherobot I think there’s an issue there. As we see, throughout the series all the characters have a ‘black’ and ‘white’ spot. The false dragonets, because they’re bitter, angry and mean are in that obvious ‘black’ spot and because they’re mean and grumpy they have no redeeming qualities and are just seen as being mean jerks. Viper fucking dies for some reason, other than to add tension. Was her death deserved? I don’t.. think so. For one, the false dragonets shouldn’t be taking their anger out on Fatespeaker. She didn’t come up with the prophecy and it isn’t her fault that Morrowseer is being unreasonable and an asshole all for a prophecy that doesn’t even exist. Especially with the setting they were forced to grow up in, a lava island, really? I think, if Tui tried, she could’ve at least showed a more sympathetic side to them. All five of them were taken by their families and were forced into this responsibility. Guess you could say they were okay with it at first until they realized how they were being treated and how ridiculous this whole this is. Like how Squid says outloud that it’s not his fault that there’s another SeaWing better than him which is probably the most tragic thing I’ve heard from him. There’s just too much ‘bad’ with these four dragons and not enough ‘good’. Fatespeaker is the only ‘white’ character in the group so of course she’s immediately accepted by the dragonets. Winter and Sundew… they also feel a bit punished. Now I’m rereading the series for a third time right now and I’m only on the Dark Secret, but what I remember, they also weren’t treated great by the narrative. Winter was being a grumpy idiot in Darkness of Dragons so of course no one takes the time to understand his reasonings for being incredibly mad at Darkstalker. Instead they’re all mad at him. But of course, Winter shouldn’t have talked down to Moonwatcher like that since at this very moment she had no idea about the plague on the IceWing’s(-yet she read all the terrible stuff and spells Darkstalker’s put on his family and friends and if she really think he’s redeemable after all of that crap, I’m sorry Moon, you’re a bit dumb and too nice for your own good-)which is also terrible, like Qibli should’ve told her about the plague. It makes me more sick that they don’t even tell Winter what happened to Darkstalker since they claim he’d be very angry and might tell the IceWings or something, a tribe he’s no longer associated with. They’re assuming things about Winter because of his superiority of his tribe and that clearly means they don’t trust him. And yeah, who else wouldn’t be mad at the fact that they decided to not kill Darkstalker when at that very moment they could’ve? (Oh, right, because every protagonist needs to have that ‘murder bad’ POV. Now, it’s okay for a few characters but having it be ALL OF THEM is tiring. I’m a bit thankful that at the end of the day Tsunami and Sundew don’t exactly act like this. I mean, I’m book one Tsunami did, but she was still a fighter). Oh and Carnelian, that SkyWing who was being bitter for a few moments died in a explosion. Icicle is never heard from again and her actions are unforgivable because she killed dragons in war and of course she has to be mean and stuff, trying to get Hailstorm back for a petty role(I don’t honestly care for Icicle, but I do believe her main motivation was to get Hailstorm back). Sundew, in her book, has every damn right to hate the HiveWings but apparently the LeafWings trying to consult with controlling Queen Wasp so she can stop attacking them is a bad idea(saying it outloud is a bit monstrous but she was already evil from the start and it’s clear Queen Sequoia had no evil intentions behind this, all expect accidentally giving Queen Wasp such a powerful weapon). So Cricket’s apparently RIGHT about her tribe being good people so Sundew is forced to change their perspective of them. Ah, what? HiveWings GOOD for enslaving SilkWings? Not like they showed remorse or anything. That one HiveWing caring more about their child than either a SilkWing or LeafWing isn’t enough to say ‘Oh well not all HiveWings are bad.’ How come the HiveWings, who enslaved a whole other tribe, with no problem might I add, are now bashed as hard as the NightWings? Remember when Starflight wanted to see them? Remember when Glory told Starflight that he shouldn’t be proud to meet his tribe because they’re terrible shits and then went on to call Starflight BARELY a NightWing? But yeah, what the few NightWings did was extremely awful but unlike the HiveWings they at least KNEW what they wanted. They were trying to get a new home while meanwhile Queen Wasp wanted power because she likes power(I don’t mind power hungry villains but I DO mind when you change that power hungry villain into a SECONDARY villain and then go ahead and give her no cool DEATH. Wasp doesn’t even die, she’s ARRESTED. AND SOMEHOW Sundew ISN’T allowed to hate the HiveWings since not all of them wanted to turn her tribe into a hivemind. I can see a few HiveWings being against the idea. Cricket had mentioned a few protest but they were all taken care of. But still though, the line of hated for the NightWings is nowhere near to the HiveWings, and could also be the fact that Morrowseer and Queen Battlewinner lied about their super cool powers and this prophecy to get off an ugly island. But the HiveWings aren’t even hated on a bit for enslaving a whole tribe and having no problem with it. Y’see why sometimes Tui’s not good at writing some characters? I do LOVE Wings of Fire but there are some times in the books where it just DRIVES ME MAD. Like the whole of ARC 3, not counting the Poison Jungle, only the end of it. Almost every character is written in black and white, and when we get a character written in that black perspective like Winter and Sundew they’re bashed on later on or earlier on by the other characters. (I can’t say much about Snowfall as I don’t remember that much from book 14 despite her raging racism from a crown). Sometimes characters feel too nice and other times characters have to be soulless pricks with no motives. The ‘being mad at NightWings’ and ‘being mad at the HiveWings’ thing still pissed me off, and so does the HiveWing’s relation to Clearsight. (Oh and I forgot to mention that Sundew did suggest to wipe out the whole HiveWing tribe so I can see why Cricket was mad at her lol-but Cricket never shows much care toward enslave SilkWings so that says something about how use the HiveWings are to using SilkWings as pretty portraits and for doing their labor everyday.) Oh but I do agree, I think there are at least SOME morally gray characters. I can’t say which as.. I actually don’t know which characters. Maybe Tsunami and Queen Ruby. AND GET THIS? SOME OF THE NIGHTWINGS THOUGHT ABOUT ENSLAVING THE RAINWINGS WHILE TAKING OVER THEIR HOME. NOT ONLY DID WASP MANAGE ON STEALING THE SILKWING AND LEAFWING’S HOME BY DESTROYING IT(I think the SilkWing’s lived in the trees as well)SHE SUCCESSFULLY ENSLAVED A WHOLE FUCKING TRIBE. I’m-sorry for how long in comment is.

[@Watcherobot]

@@Littlefox1213 Wow, that's... A lot of information.

[@Littlefox1213]

@@Watcherobot I know lol, very sorry

[@Coughs_up_nails]

I ship all three of them together

[@DeathByManchineel]

Yoooo Charcoal videooo

[@tuukkam2979]

Gotta love the thumbnail

[@tiffanyferguson1989]

You for get one winter save her life

[@ratsattack1546]

I like quinter ngl 🤭

[@williamcaward2244]

YAYAYAYAY ANOTHER POST

[@geminiguzman9158]

Winter takes after his great great great great great great great great great uncle Artic by both being grumpy jerks!!!!!

[@geminiguzman9158]

my favorite ship is Moon+Qibli

[@kristinemarie1000]

You switched the love triganle around

[@TheForbiddenTreasury]

Wait i never noticed he has his horn on a chain around his neck

[@Moonslays-w7d]

I know what happened and I’m trying not to start drama but winter could have been nicer to moon when he is not yelling next time and we know qilbi would be the one and still I love the winter watcher ship 😉

[@KrishnaAddala-g6o]

This should be called insulting Winter.

[@Shadethedragonpuppeteer]

I Prefer.... ✨Moon x Qibli✨ ( Winterwatcher is very toxic, and I also see Qibli "Flirting" As playful banter)

[@AaronKnight-fe1vm]

It not a good thing

[@mothwingthemedicinecat]

I think it either should have been Qinterwatcher or Qinter and Moonjou. Or all. I mean they could have a open relationship

[@kayko196]

How is this 2 hours ago? Unlesss that’s a glitch

[@mothwingthemedicinecat]

@@kayko196 well, the video was premiered earlier, it just hadn’t started yet i commented before the video was out

[@emmaduke1398]

Winter definitely needed moon in the beginning but if he got to get her with Moon then he wouldn't be able to grow on his own

[@Littlefox1213]

I wouldn’t necessarily say needed. You should never need someone in a relationship, sounds like you’d die without them

[@pyronuke4768]

@@Littlefox1213 I think what they're trying to say is without his friends' influence Winter would probably been stuck as the same arrogant jerk, never growing out of it because his palace life encouraged that toxicity. (Of course it's kind of moot since Tui basically abandoned that plotline after his POV ended.) Despite what some Moonbli shipers want you to believe, nowhere in the books is Winter shown acting clingy or entitled to Moon, I have no idea where some fans got that impression.

[@Littlefox1213]

@@pyronuke4768 Even as a Moonbli shipper (which I use to be) I’ve never seen Winter as clingy but if some do I have no idea how lol. It’s just a bit weird that some insist that Winter NEEDS Moon to fix him, when in reality Winter needed to get away from his family. His friends did help him improve yes, and Winter needs time to grow, and that’s very understandable. And yeah, it’s very disappointing that Tui dropped all of that development after his own book

[@pyronuke4768]

@@Littlefox1213 exactly. Honestly, it seems like as the Arc went on the narrative had no idea what to do with Winter and kept defaulting him to an arrogant grumpy emo jerk for the rest of the cast to bounce off of, and by the end when the story tried to give him more of a spotlight it just sent so many mixed signals. I like Winter because I thought he was an interesting character who had a lot of potential for growth, but but I'm left disappointed in the way his development was handled, which gave off the vibe that he'd learned nothing and therefore his arc was mostly pointless.

[@Littlefox1213]

@@pyronuke4768I’ve genuinely disliked Winter for how the books narrated him. But now personally, I don’t mind his character-meh.. actually.. he still rubs me the wrong way. I like him in Winter Turning and.. that’s it. He was cute in book seven because it felt like he had more going onto him then just some icy grump. I just REALLY WISH Winter wasn’t thrown under the bus like that. Like book seven was for nothing and Tui only wrote it to give one of the main protagonist a POV. But if that’s not the case, why treat his character arc as nothing? I don’t mind edgy characters, but what I do mind is that being a character’s whole trait. That’s exactly what Winter feels like, at least after book seven. He doesn’t feel like he’s improved for the short amount of time(like becoming less rude), or fresh, he feels like the same Winter we met in book six and honestly, the rest of the ARC 2 characters, all expect Peril, didn’t seem to surpass their character ARC, or some of them are just reversed and characters are back to the usual way they acted because it was more “familiar” and “enjoyable”. Even some that aren’t the main POVs OF the second ARC! Like Tsunami for example. And I love her character but where’s her character development? Especially after like six months?? (Also, can we talk about how characters who are ‘mean’ are treated?)

[@evieandella5670]

QINTER IS THE BEST OF THE TRIANGLE

[@Moonslays-w7d]

Excuse me 🤨

[@LFDLittlefluffydino]

Winter X Moonwatcher. I will DIE on this hill!

[@emmaduke1398]

Yes I did

[@PeytonSeibert]

I will always ship Moonbli over winterwatcher, because its not toxic- like bro-

[@pyronuke4768]

I honestly think all three work better as platonic friends. Winterwatcher is kinda toxic, but that's in large part due to Tui's really poor handling of his character. Qinter is a fun crack ship, but that's *all* it is. And finally Moonbli was incredibly rushed and underdeveloped, and outside of maybe one scene in Book 15 they barely display any romantic chemistry (Qibli constantly crushing on Moon doesn't count because we rarely get her thoughts on the matter). The way it's written, it honestly feels like Winter played a bigger part in getting Moon and Qibli together than either of those two did of their own volition.

[@tiffanyferguson1989]

I like moon and qibli

[@dragonweaponsmith]

nice video

[@RyderDesjardins]

No offence but tou fr fell off

[@HonorLightdedication]

:3 heheheheheh