That Game Engine Fork...

Рет қаралды 38,635

Gamefromscratch

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 633

@magnetomage 2 ай бұрын

sometimes you are such a troll Mike, and i am here for it.

@Beryesa. 2 ай бұрын

Respectable click "bait"

@CraftBasti 2 ай бұрын

Could you please explain where he trolled?

@spiralhalo 2 ай бұрын

@@CraftBasti No.

@HydrapleMortar64 2 ай бұрын

@@CraftBastiI think he clickbated into thinking about he is talking about REDOT

@user-sl6gn1ss8p 2 ай бұрын

"read between the lines" - vertical spacing: 48pt

@gamefromscratch 2 ай бұрын

..my vision ain't what it used to be.

@jeanheonofficial 2 ай бұрын

@@gamefromscratch You don't mention Open3DEngine (O3DE) (Fork Form from Lumberyard) and Redot Engine (Fork From Godot Engine) .

@davidhoracek8937 2 ай бұрын

@@jeanheonofficial Redot is what is in between those lines... -_-

@user-sl6gn1ss8p 2 ай бұрын

@@davidhoracek8937 I guess I was wrong : )

@jeanheonofficial 2 ай бұрын

@@davidhoracek8937 Redot is still in the development project stage. I can't wait to see what it will look like in its first versions if Redot ever comes out.

@raymk 2 ай бұрын

Everybody talks about forks, I just want to know more about spoons

@zcdace2204 2 ай бұрын

Fuck spoons, I wanna see some sporks

@Kai_Ning 2 ай бұрын

Pygame... Not gonna lie, you had me in the first 30s of the video. Now go-do-the other vid (or not XD).

@randomd00d19 2 ай бұрын

He said he would if it takes off. Otherwise it's kinda just extending conversation on a pretty dumb controversy

@Nebulaoblivion 2 ай бұрын

@@randomd00d19 Yeah, there's no point in covering a logo, readme, and UI change. If they want coverage, they're going to have to actually touch code.

@the_mastermage 2 ай бұрын

@@Nebulaoblivion and the funniest part is they haven't even changed the Logo in the Readme. Which is inarguably the easiest thing to change.

@Rubafix989 2 ай бұрын

Next year maybe =D

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

Thats what bothers me about so many people in this comment section demanding he covers redot. What is he going to say? There's a fork that may or may not do something unique? What value does redot actually bring, RIGHT NOW, to devs? "It's apolitical tho!" Even if we ignore the red flags that say otherwise, that doesn't mean anything to actual game development. Lots of frameworks and engines currently are. They just want GFS to legitimize it for some reason, as if that'd make Redot suddenly a useful tool over Godot or another engine/framework. It's weird. GFS has the right take. He'll cover it when, and if, it becomes useful for devs.

@toddmakesgames 2 ай бұрын

Kudos for running your channel the way you do and also clearly explaining why. Good stuff

@neil_from_future 2 ай бұрын

I got Mike rickroll before GTA VI. This is hard.

@BListed2k24 2 ай бұрын

The most click-baity title on this whole channel, and yet, still relevant to the actual video content. Well played, Mike.

@FireFox64000000 2 ай бұрын

This has got to be one of the most creative ways I've ever seen to say "Let him cook, I want to see where this goes"

@transformersloverjon 2 ай бұрын

More of "This is harder than it looks and I don't have faith they will pull it off." Because anyone can make a fork. The only way these FOSS projects survive is based on the *community* impact, and that is subject to a million variables. Not the least because people's time is limited.

@FireFox64000000 2 ай бұрын

@@transformersloverjon All the same to me. Either way, it's a wait and see situation.

@squeakhawk01 2 ай бұрын

Yeah, I think looking at an older example that has had time to work itself out can be very instructive when some new thing has happened.

@greensky5328 2 ай бұрын

Seems like we could all learn a thing or two from pygame, actions speak louder than words and sometimes its best to hold your judgement and see how things play out.

@RealCoachMustafa 2 ай бұрын

This guy made a 11 minute video to troll his audience

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

I like how you handled this. Very classy, fair, and balanced. Well done.

@CrescentJnr 2 ай бұрын

Very demure

@yakdoggames 2 ай бұрын

Clickbait, you say Game Engine Fork in the Thumbnail but it's a game library fork... tsk tsk tsk

@JermaineMorgan 2 ай бұрын

Calm down.

@gamefromscratch 2 ай бұрын

You know what's funny. I actually felt guilty about being misleading when creating the thumbnail. ;). If you look at the description I actually said Framework to at least be slightly more accurate without tilting my hand. ;) It also bothered me to go with fork instead of forks in the thumb, but give letters on one side and four on the other looked really bad.

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

@@gamefromscratchnah go for it. Clickbait like this is hilarious and not entirely misleading. The whole other fork drama is dumb anyway so trolling it is hilarious.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

@@SenkaZver Correct. You can't be any more dumber than to start mass banning random supporters. And then try to blame other people for your own actions.

@transformersloverjon 2 ай бұрын

Game engines are just applied libraries, when you think about it.

@echo_the_developer 2 ай бұрын

i forked godot so i could make 1 tiny change, i dont remember how long ago it was but that change got added so i deleted my fork

@FunFreakeyy 2 ай бұрын

Forking, changing something and if it's good making a PR to get it upstream is a pretty normal thing.

@echo_the_developer 2 ай бұрын

@@FunFreakeyy yeah. i hate when people fork and add a comment or smthn so they can be a contributor or somthn imagine being the project manager and you have to read through all their comments just incase they actually added soemthing useful

@PrechtGaebolgHades 2 ай бұрын

you should start working with the redot team to make that engine better

@ScibbieGames 2 ай бұрын

@@echo_the_developer "I fixed some typos" is the worst shit

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

@@PrechtGaebolgHades No.

@richardisted3703 2 ай бұрын

Is the fork of a Python library a Hydra?

@Alche_mist 2 ай бұрын

Only after several forks. If it's a first fork, it's just an Amphisbaena.

@HE360 2 ай бұрын

This reminds me of back during the BlitzBasic framework era when there was a game programming framework called Monkey X made by a guy named Mark Sibly. Well, Mark Sibly had a habit of creating projects like game programming libraries (which were always EXCELLENT). But then, he'd just abandon them out of nowhere. Thus, game developers got tired of him doing that, so they forked Monkey X and now it's called the Cerberus X game programming language.

@simonebernacchia5724 2 ай бұрын

Blitz Basic now is AmiBlitz and still developed - sorta - on Amiga

@HE360 2 ай бұрын

Wow I got to go check that out @@simonebernacchia5724

@ozi-g-be 2 ай бұрын

This is Peak KZbin and Peak advice at the same time

@gyananchan4256 2 ай бұрын

appreciate you trying to educate people rather than fearmonger

@Freznosis 2 ай бұрын

Why are we always talking about forks? What if I want to spoon a game engine instead?

@user-sl6gn1ss8p 2 ай бұрын

because what you do in your private life is none of our buisiness

@squarerootof2 2 ай бұрын

because fork implies penetration while spoon does not.

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

Maybe we should be chopsticking our engines.

@shayneoneill1506 2 ай бұрын

I'd argue that B4Artists is more of a blender distribution than a fork. (Think Debian vs Redhat. Netiher are forks, but distributions)

@gamefromscratch 2 ай бұрын

That is a fair comparison. Oddly we don't really look at value add apps as distros

@z_0968 2 ай бұрын

Forks and distributions aren't mutually exclusive...Redhat (depending on the version RHL or RHEL) can be both. RHEL is a fork of Fedora, and funnily enough Fedora used to be a fork of RHL.

@gamefromscratch 2 ай бұрын

Forkception?

@LisandroLorea 2 ай бұрын

Because "distribution" is very tied to linux. You have a kernel, and you need to add stuff on top of it to have a functioning OS. Even without changing the source code of the kernel or any of the binaries included, you could assemble and distribute an OS that's configured in a very different way from another (different startup system, different default desktop environment (or none), different installer, etc.) I think with games the closest term would be "mod" but I'm not sure if it's used with apps.

@vaidenkelsier7757 2 ай бұрын

Can't wait until we're past the recent news and we can get back to, I dunno. Game development.

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

Most devs have already moved on. The only ones raging about redot are the non dev redot fanboys.

@FunnyBaaMan 2 ай бұрын

@SenkaZver yeah, the fact that one of Redot's biggest supporters is an ex-blizzard employee who makes relatively irrelevant games, but has $1500 founder packs for the latest one, makes me think it won't last long.

@jaideepshekhar4621 2 ай бұрын

Naah, everyone has moved on. Except the nuts in Godot. 😂

@jaideepshekhar4621 2 ай бұрын

@@FunnyBaaMan Godot won't last long. Fo woke go broke.

@justsomenamelesssoul8097 2 ай бұрын

@@SenkaZverexcept they didn't and it's just your perception and people you know

@teh1archon 2 ай бұрын

There is another fork of Blender called Goo Engine (I think) that really changed the render pipeline under the hood to create anime visuals in their workflow. It's very interesting, and not free unless you build it yourself from source. I don't recall if it has gaming capabilities, as the anime aesthetics are the core of the project.

@gusty7153 2 ай бұрын

gaming and anime can go together. anime is an aesthetic

@utfigyii5987 2 ай бұрын

@@gusty7153 except with the fortnite anime shader. That looks horrendous.

@ahettinger525 2 ай бұрын

@@gusty7153 I believe he's saying that he doesn't know if they re-add the Blender game engine code that Blender removed, like UPBGE did. No one is saying that you cannot use an anime aesthetic in your game.

@gusty7153 2 ай бұрын

@@ahettinger525 the way it was worded though made it sound like having a heavy focus on anime somehow made it incompatible for use with game development

@gusty7153 2 ай бұрын

@@ahettinger525 also i didnt know there was a blender game engine code in the first place. i only learned recently about an add on that allows for game development within blender. something that you put into blender to make it a game engine, never knew about stuff already in blender

@DorkingtonHacker 2 ай бұрын

All the most successful forks have a technical motivation. The only example I can think of of a purely political fork is when Gimp got forked by people fed up with the stupid name and ugly branding. They created Glimpse which, appropriately, didn't last long.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

The problem with your comparison is that Redot isn't political, Godot is.

@alguem5996 2 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpikksaar2202 you may have missed the irony on your statement.

@DorkingtonHacker 2 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpikksaar2202 It's a fork for a political reason. It has no technical reason to exist.

@LisandroLorea 2 ай бұрын

You are right, though a technical motivation in a way is a political motivation. Contributors have to agree on what direction to take the project, if they can't come to an agreement a fork can happen. That IS politics. It is the politics of the project itself rather of the (usually largely unrelated) politics of any given country or culture which is how we usually use the word. Ultimately I think it depends on whether you provide value to users or not. - Some people might find the alternative UX in bforartists very useful - Some people need to port an XNA project so the high compatibility of FNA is perfect for them - Evidently not many Gimp users find value in seeing a different name in the title bar

@Marandal 2 ай бұрын

hmh, sounds like they only got a Glimse of it

@firewolf11567 2 ай бұрын

You had me SWEATING with this one man LMAO

@ThiagoJaqueta 2 ай бұрын

Well played Mike... Well played.

@Nihil-sp5bz 2 ай бұрын

This is the beauty of open source. No mather the reasons, new forks are always valid. If they'll survive or not is another debate, but forking a project is ALWAYS a valid move.

@n00bc0de7 2 ай бұрын

Git hub forks are also created just to submit pull request for developers that are not on a repo. For instance, if you want to submit a patch to Godot, you can't just create a branch on the main repo. You need to fork it and submit changes upstream.

@gonzalot.605 2 ай бұрын

I'm always happy to see you cover software that isn't widely known. Especially when it comes to open-source projects.

@UrsaFrank 2 ай бұрын

Not a game engine but another fork that is doing well and is game dev related is LibreSprite which is a fork a Aseprite from back when it was an opensource project and has slowly become it's own thing (but still keeping everything free and open source)

@backdrift5612 2 ай бұрын

Such a profound allegory!

@Twiggorized 2 ай бұрын

really good way of making that video

@nikkuku7021 2 ай бұрын

When is your video titled " game engine from scratch" coming out :3 ? i am waiting.....

@Eichro 2 ай бұрын

how many of those 21k forks are github users doing it completely by accident and not caring enough to delete it?

@RarebitFiends 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for waiting to see where things went instead of farming drama content in the moment. I appreciate how classy you run this channel. 🌟

@transformersloverjon 2 ай бұрын

Massive respect for keeping this channel classy and not hopping on the drama bandwagon.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

What drama?

@coderaven1107 2 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpikksaar2202 Godot Redot (essentially a big debate, involving overreactive behaviour (big banwave) by some Godot Mods, the Keyword "woke" and a forge of the engine). There is a lot of coverage. My view (if anybodies interested XD): I find it quite sad actually, as I align with LGBTQ+ values (and think associated human rights problems are really important to get more attention) and now there is another person of the same values, with a non-inclusive hate/black&white-thinking/shortsighted behaviour I can't align with in any way (the Godot Community Manager), which strengthens the already bad public perception of pro LGBTQ+ people. Guess I needed a place to vent :D

@BRBS360 2 ай бұрын

But I thought he did jump on the bandwagon when it happened? Pretty sure he has made a video about the Godot drama.

@fus3n 2 ай бұрын

the pygame sitatuion is another drama bruh, and mostly similar politically, idk why he can talk about this but not godot

@tiacool7978 2 ай бұрын

@@BRBS360 He has, but people are hoping he will cover the fork of Godot.

@BaroonValm 2 ай бұрын

This video explains quite well why Redot will not take off. Virtually no Developers interested in switching to it, and it's entirely fueled by the Godot Controversy that'll blow over, because it wasn't something that's ACTUALLY important, like was the case with Urho, or pygame. Redot simply has nothing of substance to offer compared to Godot, all they've got is "We aim to not be political" which they failed at by releasing due to a political controversy, and the other the intention to Merge Godot's PR Backlog without review (as they don't have any manpower required for review, Godot itself struggles with this massively and they're much better organized and with much more manpower behind them) which will fail thanks to a ton of bugs that'll inevitably cause and actually be a massive negative for them.

@_Hadda 2 ай бұрын

Yea don't see it going anywhere, they'd have a better chance focusing on a new non-political godot community rather than a new fork.

@firstname4337 2 ай бұрын

not ACTUALLY important ??? banning monetary contributors because they said "let's focus on game development and not politics" ??? -- that mod went way too far and and has no idea how to separate power from personal beliefs

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

It's funny that their one technical complaint is the "pr backlog" and they claim godot is "too lazy or financially/corporate motivated for it" Yet they've done nothing themselves yet to pull those pull requests nor does it tell the truth why godot ignores or hasn't incorporated many of those PRs.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

Yet another baffoon having opinions on matters they know nothing about. . Developers being banned in open source community means that they no longer can use the software without a fork. The fork was created out of necessity, not for political reasons. Being a-political fork simply means that no one is going to get banned (and losing access to support with it) for random reasons any time moderator is in a bad mood. Unlike it is currently with Godot. . It's quite possible that once everyone involved get their projects finished and can move on to other engines, then Redot might die out. But if Godot Foundation keeps driving developers away for any reason, then that only means growth for Redot. I don't know if you understand this much but people who get cut off from Godot have nowhere else to go. Also, ignorant people (like yourself) invading game developpment circles, trying to dis Redot, only funkion as free marketing for them, since without your loudmouth yapping they might not even know about better alternatives to fascist Godot.

@BaroonValm 2 ай бұрын

@@firstname4337 When you're mass banning like they were, mistakes are bound to happen, you're rapidly scanning for violations and scrolling and you're bound to occasionally click the wrong person and ban them without realizing, and as someone who's been there when things were unfolding, yea there were a ton of people that were breaking Godot's Codes of Conduct and they were within their full right to ban those breaking it. Their response was a bit half assed, and they should've shown examples of the shit they were cleaning up and why, and apologize a bit better to those that got caught banned in the storm. If their response was of higher quality it'd have quickly killed off most of the backlash it's still facing, as any rational person would go "Yeah, that makes sense" and the only people still trying to push it would be those with an agenda.

@tiagotiagot 2 ай бұрын

Checking on Pypi seems Pygame is still getting updated. Is there somewhere I can find a comprehensive comparison between the two forks? (I don't mean like a raw diff, but someone that understand things reviewing the differences targeting an audience of game creators)

@phizc 2 ай бұрын

1:54 small nit: Python 3.11 is python three eleven, not three one one. The latter would be 3.1.1

@NervousNoodles 2 ай бұрын

You had me in the first few seconds, not gonna lie.

@Axiasart 2 ай бұрын

7:00 Just the UPBGE part of the video is more than satifying me xD thanks pushing this to my attention, going to have so much fun

@lmelior 2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣Nice! I actually somehow didn't know about pygame-ce, even though I was a professional software engineer for half a decade using python, and though I haven't done really anything in the way of gamedev for a long time now I do still follow it a little (primarily through this channel!).

@GuilhermeFArantesSouza 2 ай бұрын

You've gained my respect, more of it at least, with this video. Specially the message not said, well done

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

No one cares about your "respect". Start respecting yourself and maybe people start to take you more seriously. It goes for all of your comrades.

@SeralyneYT 2 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpikksaar2202 Covering the fork not mentioned is not respecting yourself. It's quite the contrary, even.

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpikksaar2202>comrades Literally placing him in a political label all because he said "thank you for not being a political or dramatuber" to GFS. Isn't that precisely the behavior Redot was forked over in protest? Ironic.

@SEF84 2 ай бұрын

Even just a thankful message has emotional reply nowadays, I guess it's true for a lot of people you're either with them or against them, nothing inbetween.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

@@SenkaZver How is "comrade" a political label? Comradery existed far before communism was invented. Do you know what is ironic instead? Just like communists tried to highjack the whole concept of comradery, so are you trying to highjack communities for your own ignorant causes. Furthermore, just like communists thought that they could manipulate individual thoughts with propaganda, so do you think that your empty yapping is solving real problems developers are facing. Ironic indeed.

@felix_xb 2 ай бұрын

9:25 when you do a pull request of anything you're creating a fork, so going by "how many people forked it" like that is completely useless and painting a really strange narrative. To see how many actual "forks" in the sense you're using there a project has, simply click the number sort by "Most Starred" and have it filtered to Active + Starred, then observe if there's any project with a signficant amount of stars (typically 1000+ at least, more if the parent project is super special or very old). It should be obvious what the forks are and what the pull requests/experiments are. But I get it, this isnt about that or whats worthy to be a video. Its completely possible for either side to pull changes from each other if they want to, at any time, so there's no tangible loss of any effort involved unless one side decided to be against the other as some political statement. This is about gossip/shaming tactics to discourage people to think for themselves, let some group think for them and defame all opposition to get a point across. I personally think peace of mind when developing is very important. If I thought it wasnt high on the list why would I have given godot the time of day to begin with? If its about performance, maturity, etc then even if you hate unity there's unreal. If its about business you're going to lose more money from reinventing things already avaialble, assets and bugs, that more advanced engines already solved (and thats ignoring porting costs related to godot-to-consoles). And if its about things like "how it works" you get better experience from built-to-purpose specialized engines. Trust and peace of mind are the bedrock of open source, but thats just my point of view, everyone should think for themselves (and by that I dont mean with their twitter brain, but the other one).

@llareia 2 ай бұрын

This was fantastic content. Well done, sir.

@cryelectric 2 ай бұрын

Quite simply ahead of time... brilliant!

@Chevifier 2 ай бұрын

Not what i thought this vid was gonna be about 1000IQ clickbait. You got me😂

@Marandal 2 ай бұрын

You're one of my go-to youtubers when i need good Tutorials on godot

@MountainLabsYT 2 ай бұрын

Lol, Got me. now I'm waiting for the new game engine fork...

@VectorDev 2 ай бұрын

Do you mean Re*** ?

@MountainLabsYT 2 ай бұрын

@@VectorDev Yes.

@jaideepshekhar4621 2 ай бұрын

@@VectorDev What are you censoring?

@Ach476 2 ай бұрын

@@jaideepshekhar4621Redot

@mnmmnmm 2 ай бұрын

@@jaideepshekhar4621 Re*** obviously

@Matmas 2 ай бұрын

Once Redot gets popular features that were rejected from Godot (or unlikely to be accepted into it), then it has a chance of proving itself.

@SeralyneYT 2 ай бұрын

Yeah. That's the moment it has any potential whatsoever.

@5h4ndt 2 ай бұрын

Yep, it needs to distinguish it from godot eventually, or it's just a splinter community ( which is also ok, but then they should just own it and drop the pretext of a fork )

@4.0.4 2 ай бұрын

I hope that happens. I'm not an engine dev, just user, but if I can I'll contribute to Redot.

@jeanheonofficial 2 ай бұрын

I wonder if it's better to stay on Godot. I learned about the controversy around Godot but I just hope Godot didn't die with this scandal. At worst the dust will settle like with Unity and the scandals around runtime-fees. I have nothing against diversity but Godot should have never posted this message and should remain neutral on these subjects. It's like Unity promoting Christianity and Christian games in one of their tweets on Twitter. So much the better if Redot takes up Godot's torch.

@AHeinermann 2 ай бұрын

@@jeanheonofficial From a user's perspective it shouldn't matter. They are the same thing fundamentally, so your project should be openable in either. The community and funding are still all on Godot though. If you ignore the Twitter/KZbin drama and look at Discord/Forums/Github and also actually talk with people, you'll find that most people don't care as much as the KZbin dramas are making it out to be. I think everyone agrees that the tweet and blocking people was really bad but disagrees with whether it's worth moving, and as the video mentions, whether any recent fork has merit right now.

@BigBraGad 2 ай бұрын

To be fair, Godot could go down the same path as pygame ce. Its under similar circumstances. The other news you are referring to.

@SeralyneYT 2 ай бұрын

Tbf we're also 1½ weeks into the unmentioned fork's existence and the only things they've done so far is rebrand it. And even that took 1½ weeks. That should have taken 2 days at most, and it should certainly have been done by "launch day".

@heartsockette 2 ай бұрын

Pygame's issues affected the project itself beyond just talk on the internet, and several important devs left Pygame. Redot will probably be forgotten about in 3 months. I could be wrong. But I *highly* doubt anything will come of it.

@BigBraGad 2 ай бұрын

They did block people all the way to the repo. Right or wrong for doing it, they at least showed that they are willing to put damper on the project in the name of politics, so there's that.

@SeralyneYT 2 ай бұрын

@@BigBraGad So did Redot. They also blocked people on the Repo. The most reasonable read here is that both projects blocked trolls that were an active hindrance to the development of the project. That Redot hasn’t actually done any development is another matter entirely.

@BigBraGad 2 ай бұрын

@@SeralyneYT Is that so? I wasn't aware of that. I have no investment in either one, but the premise seemed nice. What and who did they block?

@justanormaldude7919 2 ай бұрын

You know what, respect dude. I know you have your opinions on matters but that doesn't mean you can sacrifice your journalist integrity, so keep up the good work.

@Ratstail91 2 ай бұрын

LOL nice. This is the best response to a certain event I've seen in a while.

@AlexanderEndless 2 ай бұрын

Ah okay. I guess its not time yet.

@notpumkin 2 ай бұрын

Most forks are probably just people not knowing how github works and trying to download the project.

@bhaswardutta4890 2 ай бұрын

True

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

No. Most bugfixes and features are forks that get merged. That's how it works. At least that's how it's supposed to work. If the maintainer is busy with other things (like banning everyone in a fit of rage), or don't like you and don't merge, then it hangs in the air as another fork. So you can imagine how many people want to contribute but can't because of mismanagement. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp2qoY2hn9OeqpY

@blingmoney 2 ай бұрын

i have definitely done this, I keep them up to remind myself that's not how it works

@L4Vo5 2 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpikksaar2202 when your pr gets merged, your fork doesn't automatically get deleted. and there's zero incentive to manually delete it other than potentially trimming down your project list. so I think most people just leave it there

@pr0cs 2 ай бұрын

As least there are potential for alternatives, yeah those alternatives may be very difficult to get off the ground but the beauty of open source is that if you don't like the direction the original is going you can (with enough effort and teamwork) take the project in a different path. You might not like the fork but you should always encourage people to choose freedom to take a forked project in the direction that best suits the group involved with it. If you are actively trying to shut the fork down then there is no way you can consider yourself as "the good guys"

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

No one is shutting down Godot forks.

@gamefromscratch 2 ай бұрын

I don't know if this comment was directed at me. I said literally nothing about shutting down the fork. In fact a good chunk of the video is talking about how game engine forks have and can be a good thing

@williamdrum9899 2 ай бұрын

@@SenkaZver But people were raiding the discord server

@ragnarrandom7367 2 ай бұрын

@@williamdrum9899 redot folks have raided godot discord server we are all acting like children. i am guilty of it too, trolling right wingers on godot steam forum. i should be ashamed of myself ;)

@MechanicaMenace 2 ай бұрын

@@williamdrum9899 when? I'm on there and I'll have seen is the same old nothing about development, lots about branding, lots about following things on social media, and the odd chat about dumping being a Godot fork and forking something else.

@conneich 2 ай бұрын

UE5 has 51k forks. That's a lot of proprietary cutlery!

@Maridany 2 ай бұрын

I see what ya doing! 👀Nice video!

@arcsidian 2 ай бұрын

Well played, Mike.

@skeleton_craftGaming Ай бұрын

B for artists softly endorsed by the blender project [the main maintainer did a talk at blend con]

@NiklasAndersson7 2 ай бұрын

Yeah, forking is easy. Pulling it off is very hard. There have been some successful forks during the years: Calligra (fork of KOffice), LibreOffice (fork of OpenOffice), MariaDB (fork of MySQL), but making it work is very hard.

@drillerdev4624 2 ай бұрын

Well played, sir

@LedoCool1 2 ай бұрын

No redoot?

@cc12yt 2 ай бұрын

Absolute Cinema

@PurpleKnightmare 2 ай бұрын

I never liked the content manager for XNA/Monogame. Also note there is no content manager in FNA.

@ArtArtisian 2 ай бұрын

I quite appreciate this take.

@Anonyross 2 ай бұрын

Simply perfect

@jumphigher-runfaster 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for touching on such the important subject, that affects us all.

@ShiloBuff 2 ай бұрын

Gamefromscratch is classy as always. Wish I could say about the other news.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

Which news are not classy?

@kunai9809 2 ай бұрын

you actually covered without mentioning it, damn. Just said a little too much at 9:40 :D And I am looking forward very much to the day you will properly cover it, I believe in the project.

@CreeperSlayer365 2 ай бұрын

This is got to be the most high brow troll I've ever seen.

@SEF84 2 ай бұрын

Now this is something I can get behind, while yes it might divide development efforts, in case of a fork that was sprung up by drama they won't be contributing to the upstream anyways, nor will the upstream devs want to spend time to a fork. For the users otherwise they got more choice, but again, that is assuming the fork proven itself to actually stand on its own, great video, and respect for showing your points without getting into the deep end of the jungle.

@lucas0sz 2 ай бұрын

I remember UPBGE already existed when BGE was still around, and at that time they hoped to merge back one day and become Blender's official game engine.

@Magicmedo 2 ай бұрын

I was thinking about game engine forks yesterday. Weird.

@JermaineMorgan 2 ай бұрын

No you wasnt😂

@InvasionAnimation 2 ай бұрын

Likely because of godot.

@Yumemocchi 2 ай бұрын

I actually didn't know about Pygame CE ! 🤖

@TheExileFox 2 ай бұрын

I thought this was gonna be "Due to drama with Godot, here is a fork of that"

@4.0.4 2 ай бұрын

There is one, Redot

@LisandroLorea 2 ай бұрын

Cocos2d-x is in turn a fork of Cocos2d, and there are some other forks and ports

@noiJadisCailleach 2 ай бұрын

Today, we're talking about ̶J̶e̶f̶f̶ Gef.

@nantas 2 ай бұрын

I thought for sure you're talking about Redot

@PurpleKnightmare 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for the Rebel Fork info! I did not know about that!

@dovmerrill804 2 ай бұрын

With regard to “off-topic” discussions in game-dev (or other communities for that matter), how hard would it be (from the get-go) to create two (or more, if needed) comment threads on those community sites: one for “on-topic” comments, and one for “off-topic” comments. Assuming a moderator is assigned, then “off-topic” comments could either be deleted from the “on-topic” thread, or they could be moved to the “off-comment” thread. What’s wrong with this simple idea?

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

I think the biggest problem is that the "off-topic" comments are in fact most often on-topic, but they highlight things certain people don't like to talk about. Basically you are suggestin auto-censorship. That's a big no-no in most free societies. Be it on-line or off-line.

@ahettinger525 2 ай бұрын

From the Godot side of things, both the official "Godot Engine" discord, as well as "Godot Cafe" do this exact thing.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

@@ahettinger525 They do the exact same thing becasue they are both moderated by the exact same people.

@ahettinger525 2 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpikksaar2202 you don't seem to understand free speech. Free speech is the freedom to be free of _government_ censorship, it does not mean I cannot eject you from my property for being disruptive. In fact that's a requirement of a free society, it's freedom of association. That applies to both the physical and the virtual world, and is true of every society.

@ronaldpikksaar2202 2 ай бұрын

@@ahettinger525 Free speech was not the topic here. You don't seem to understand how voluntary communities work. If you invite people to your house for a purpose, and once people are there, you change your mind and change the whole goal of people being there, then don't be surprised that guests get disappointed or angry. Let's say you promote that you want to open a soup kitchen for the homeless. Once people are there and help you prepare the food, then it turns out that you are having a party and you give the leftovers to the homeless. Of course people feel cheated and start calling you names. Yes, you have the right to drive them away and they have the right to be angry. You have no right to gather your friends and start harassing them on the street corners and telling everyone that the soup kithcen they decided to start without you is much worse than your scam they just abandoned. . Moreover, you just proved how tyrannical Godot maintainers really are if you claim that the whole of community is simply their private property. Look up "Enclosure" from history for reference, community lands were privatised and people weren't happy one bit. . But since you wanted to talk about freedom of speech - you can't have a community without it. If you have private property and no freedoms then why would anyone want to work for you for free?

@Vondora 2 ай бұрын

This is not april fools, Mike xD Well played...

@JohnnyThund3r 2 ай бұрын

I should really make a video about my Fork... but I never have time to edit my videos well, and now that I'm working on my engine, I have even less.

@the-guy-beyond-the-socket 2 ай бұрын

i like how subtle your message is. i like it. i know who to show it

@Zolotou2604 2 ай бұрын

I just don't understand why did you not just say "Redot"? I mean we all can read between the lines but not saying it is just strange.

@RedotEngine 2 ай бұрын

Very funny! 😂 also thanks. I was wondering when the pygame thing would be covered. Good video as always.

@GoblinArmyInYourWalls 2 ай бұрын

This was a top tier troll post.

@ahettinger525 2 ай бұрын

I think you kind of overstate engine forks there at the end. There's Github forks and there's _real_ forks. Almost all of the _github_ forks of engines are just people working on features to upstream. (or just playing around for their own entertainment) To be clear, _I_ have a fork of the Godot Engine, and gamesfromscratch absolutely should not cover it because it solely exists to experiment with optimizing some of the math functions of GDScript... and that's more then what's on the agenda for the fork that the public is talking about is planning.

@ElasticGiraffe 2 ай бұрын

Ooh. I think I know what conversation inspired this video. 🤐

@hidemat5141 2 ай бұрын

Beautifully said buddy 👏👏👏🎉

@anon_y_mousse 2 ай бұрын

I would argue that an open source project could be carried by a single person, but that it's the users who you really need to develop a community of for a project to thrive. In fact, regardless of how many devs work on a project, without a community of users, it will die. Take for instance Crystal Space. It wasn't the best game engine, but it worked and even had a few commercial games that used it. It was pretty much the only useful open source engine at the time, but it just couldn't get enough users to stay alive. It's even difficult to still acquire a copy of it. However, I would like to suggest that you at least try Linux on a second computer. You could buy a secondhand computer for super cheap and play with it with minimal risk.

@AlvaroLand 2 ай бұрын

Well, they basically forked Godot because they didn't like the community manager's behaviour. I also didn't like it but Godot is not a person, it's a game engine so why make a different engine? They could have made their own community instead. That could have convinced more people.

@dovmerrill804 2 ай бұрын

Well said.

@lifeartstudios6207 2 ай бұрын

that's not how that works.

@firstname4337 2 ай бұрын

because the main devs behind godot blamed the community instead of the mod

@SenkaZver 2 ай бұрын

@@lifeartstudios6207you're biased and in a cult so irrelevant

@AlvaroLand 2 ай бұрын

@@lifeartstudios6207 What? You can't make a subreddit or a twitter account named Apolitical Godot or Godot Community or similar?

@ThatElfNerd 2 ай бұрын

Personally, unless the fork has features that I need for a project, i tend to stick with the original software. If i were to have a major disagreement with a software company, I'd sooner use one of their competitors rather than stick to the same company with a paint job.