That One Time Torchwood Went Vegan

[@HarboWholmes]

Buy your very own alien whale kebab today: www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

[@lazulenoc6863]

Mmmm.... delicious South Wales-farmed Alien whale meat.

[@mattthesilent777RED]

CGI is good, accept it and don't complain, you get what you're given Harbo

[@jojenkins3495]

would genuinely watch a short of "ianto gets bored and puts torchwood logos everywhere"

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

Aside from the very poorly aged CGI this is another banger from Series 2, thought provoking and heart wrenching. Rhys finally exploding at Gwen is one of the best moments of the series.

[@TheHufflepuffSaint]

I'm glad Gwen also held her ground against Jack when he told her that Rhys wasn't allowed to remember. After that episode, Rhys wasn't an official member but he was an honorary member of Torchwood Three.

[@MaxFPSGamer]

Lol Ianto getting bored with a label maker one night with Jack is probably a fan fiction out there somewhere.

[@Prongsie1999]

The love triangle pissed me off to no end. It seemed like the show was constantly hammering away at the Jack and Gwen storyline even if it took away from the development of the characters.

[@whyamidoingthis5236]

The Jack/Gwen storyline can just fuck right off

[@Prongsie1999]

@@whyamidoingthis5236 couldnt agree more

[@tatianamelendez490]

Jesus Christ, yes! It cemented my hatred for Gwen and disappointment in Jack (I could never hate him) because I loved Rhys and Ianto so much. They were probably my favorite characters so Jack and Gwen can piss right off.

[@caitlinb35]

It's telling to me that I hate the Jack/Gwen stuff so much that the Gwen/Owen storyline seems so much better in comparison at least character wise 😭😭

[@tinykemper2561]

Can we just appreciate that Rhys' character episode, is kinda shared with a giant alien meat whale.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

compared to a giant whale not made of meat?

[@Naumaxia]

The biggest problem I have with the whole Gwen/Jack storyline is that it’s never resolved! They don’t get together (thank god) and none of the characters ever acknowledge it’s happening at all, except for Rhys who is painted as bordering on paranoid for thinking Gwen might cheat on him again. It’s like the writers just couldn’t comprehend writing main characters of the opposite gender who aren’t attracted to each other, despite both characters having their own separate storylines going on

[@Elkendrien]

Yes exactly, it feels tremendously out of place. It just doesn’t really make sense and goes nowhere. Plus, it really takes away from Gwen/Rhys andJack/Ianto. I’m just glad that especially the latter is explored a bit more in some of the audio books/ stories where it is made clear how Jack truly feels.

[@lateralhistory]

It's been a while since I watched Torchwood, but I don't remember Owen being oblivious to Tosh's affections. I always got the impression he knew, but didn't reciprocate. Which is exactly why he "resets their relationship" (ie; takes a step back) every time their friendship grows closer and Tosh visibly gets her hopes up. And why he does things like talk about other women in front of her, and invite the whole team along when they go out together. I don't remember him ever actually returning Tosh's feelings, although he clearly does care about her as a friend.

[@mel-burnes]

there was sumth about him not feeling enough in big finishes stuff but in regards to tv series canon i fully agree

[@joseignacioreallozano348]

I always thought so too, but in the episode he dies (for the first time) he actually realizes she was asking him out, apologizes, and accepts. And i dont feel owen would be lying, he is the kind of person who will tell the truth kn this cases even if it is harder

[@GardeniaCreations]

If I've got a government budget, next to zero government oversight, and I'm working hard dealing with aliens and stuff, I'm getting a label maker, writing it off as a work expense, and labeling everything I can. I am doing this with literally every cool bit of tech that I want, but can't justify buying myself.

[@TheatreJosh24601]

I'm just imagining Ianto labeling dozens of unidentified alien devices as "mysterious beeping thingamabob," "torch that lights up blue if it rained yesterday and yellow if there was a tornado in Kansas precisely 42 days ago," and "probably a weird sex thing."

[@jimmy2k4o]

I thought torchwood was funded by reverse engineering alien tech and selling it. The whole point of torchwood being secret is defeated if torchwood appears on the government budget which the public can read.

[@redsquirrel724]

It would have been nice if the love triangle was used more for Gwen to redeem herself from Series 1. It felt so out of place and awkward every time it popped up in the show, even in series 1. Gwen learning to shoot the gun would've been far better if it wasn't for the unnecessary sexually tensioned touching.

[@FaolanCortez]

Despite the questionable CGI, ‘Meat’ is undoubtedly an all-time favourite Torchwood episode! All the characters and their performances soaring sky-high was so entertaining. The poor alien whale with its cries of pain manages to make me break each time I watch. Certainly a rememberable story. 🥺💚

[@CodySnow]

Great review! Hit the nail on the head on Kai Owen's performance. I feel like everyone in this episode had something to do. Owen and Tosh had their romance plot, Jack, Gwen, and Rhys have the whale plot and the idea of space. Well, except for Adam. The dudes been there since the beginning but the show treats him like he never existed!

[@crow6558]

even disregarding the whole cheating and love triangle mess, gwen and jack just do not have chemistry. i dont read them as a couple at all and i think a platonic relationship would honestly have added more depth to their relationship because it wouldve been more believable. oh, sorry- forgot theres not enough "drama" there.

[@abandonedpterodactyl5484]

Agreed. I really liked the moment in Children of Earth when Gwen called Jack her best friend. That was believable (at least to me), because they are obviously close and trust each other. I think establishing their friendship more in Season two instead of the tired old will they won't they, oh wow they're flirting (even though it looks like they are each handling a dead fish) would have been way better.

[@pikachucetthesecond4296]

I could say the best part of the episode is the argument scene where it looks like the cameraman is struggling to keep up with Gwen and Ryhs but that would be a lie, the best part is when they find out the alien whale meat has been circulating around Cardiff, Ianto comes in to tell Owen he's gotten Meat Explosion Pizza like he usually does and then the very next scene opens on Owen picking the meat off of the Pizza

[@VeracityLH]

Funny, if someone asked me about "Meat" veganism doesn't come to mind. To me it's just the episode where Rhys got a clue, Ianto got a pair of balls, and Owen shed a tear.

[@afropro5294]

YOU WON'T BE SORRY WITH A HARWOODS LORRY

[@ladylandlubber499]

The argument between Gwen and Rhys is probably the most memorable moment of the series for me. Really fantastic work from everyone involved!

[@jojocosta8346]

Still half way through the video so I don't know if this is pointed out, but I love the parallel between Jack and the imortal whale alien, the alien being chopped up alive and Jack have been tortured by the master in the recent past and probably more in the non recent.

[@ig_4220]

I didn't really perceive there being a love triangle, more Jack doing Jack things and Rhys filling in blanks.

[@nightowl8477]

Yeah, and it definitely wasn't there in Series 1. It's just strange when it's brought up in Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang.

[@CryptoSeb]

I FIGHT ALIENS!! "pIsS oFf" Hahahahaha

[@wcheungmusic]

Kai Owen and Eve Myles are such standout actors. They make me want to watch Torchwood more. And Rhys' inclusion into Torchwood overall just gets better and better. I'm so glad they decided against killing him off and instead taking a chance to grow his character, giving Gwen that sense of being grounded and human. I can't wait for the review of the wedding episode - it was such a barrel of laughs!

[@jdg9825]

The way torchwood was this huge secret and they just branded fuckin everything even their van

[@toadtv4389]

And they're so well known in the city that random grandmas yells "damn you Torchwood!" When they see aliens, or they can just walk out of jail by telling the cops that they are Torchwood

[@TheWolfXCIX]

CGI aside (which I can forgive, it doesn't rely on it), this is a great episode IMO. I love how much more grounded it is and anything is made better by Rhys.

[@jessicaable5095]

Thing is at least our animals get to die before being food. Most livestock get to live in a field somewhere before the slaughter house (I know not all and that is horrible, but even they're not constantly being carved up while still alive). So I'd say this is probably a lot worse for the animal than what we do normally. Not saying what we do normally is good, I just don't think the comparison is really exact and it is ABSOLUTELY morally wrong

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

The scene between Gwen and Reese in the apartment is easily my favourite in the entire show

[@BambiTrout]

Definitely! Also *Rhys :)

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

@@BambiTrout thank

[@treysmith9925]

New headcanon: Ianto has a cricut machine and Torchwoods everything in the hub

[@CREN13Queen]

I love the idea of Ianto just getting bord one night and going a bit crazy with the torchwood label maker

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I often wondered if there is any connection between this creature and the one from "The Beast Below".

[@CineScarborough]

I love this episode, and I'm so glad that Gwen decides not to give Rhys the Retcon drug. It says a lot about Gwen's character and who she is.

[@stevenmcaulay165]

The moment when Owen had to kill the alien whale you could see he didn’t want to do it and when he did it was breaking his heart that he did that to a innocent creature but when you think of that happening to our animals in real life who are farmed for food and slaughtered just makes you think if you could kill it would you

[@Yvonne_2473]

Aliens! In Cardiff!!! 🤣 Instant classic. One of the best episodes. Aside from the lousy CGI it has everything. Strong character moments for everybody, great team dynamics and a strong message. And I'm glad Rhys finally knows.

[@silverstarlight9395]

Rhys has clearly forgotten when the sycorax invaded earth.

[@SkyPerson]

@@silverstarlight9395 or the Battle of Canary Wharf, or the Slytheen Ship crashing in the Thames, or Boom Day in Cardiff where a massive sky beam blasting into the sky, OH! And the GHOSTS!!

[@fire_phoenix04]

Take a shot every time Harbo says “I love the scale of it”

[@PlanetNateGaming]

But in every video...slowest inhibreation ever

[@PwnZombie]

Respect for making these Torchwood videos, when they clearly get less views than your DW content.

[@capricorn878]

Jack and Gwen having an romance is a big bruh

[@mrsaxon1013]

I never saw this as Torchwood going vegetarian/vegan or trying to make a stance in that sort of area. Animals like cows, pigs, chicken that are bred for food and the question of is that right or not is not really the same as the space whale in this scenario. Primarily because, when it's time to make burgers and bacon, the animals are killed outright (and it's for the most part, as humane and quick as possible) whereas here, these guys are keeping the creature alive as they cut, slice and hack off chunks of this creature and because of it's unique biology, it keeps regrowing and getting bigger. That's so much more barbaric and disgusting. The closest I can think off in real life would be poultry/animal farms where the animals are enclosed in tiny cages just to lay eggs or breed etc. And I think everyone, vegan/vegetarian or not, can agree that those places need shut done and destroyed.

[@silverstarlight9395]

So, have you decided to stop eating eggs?

[@joeblundy9185]

Kai Owen and Eve Myles were fantastic is this episode. They always brought the best out of each other.

[@yangalang8]

this is late but love your videos; they're especially nice to have going in the background while making APA citations. i can't wait to see what you think of From Out of the Rain because that episode is simultaneously my favorite (the concept! the horrible fate of the victims! the flashbacks and character development! the team working together well! the pacing!) and also the most frustrating thing (see: any explanation at all for why and how, the incredibly convenient plot woman, the sea being important and then not, and the really weird scenes of the magician and the mermaid just being evil at the pool).

[@smuu1996]

Gwen being so weirdly obsessed with not being loyal to her husbando in series 1 and 2 is kinda fucked. Literally. Oh shit...

[@ericrobins5188]

I love Matt Ryan in this episode He makes a good villain which I think shows why he's a good Constantine

[@PlanetNateGaming]

The best Constantine 👌

[@Laurielism]

Yeah, no one was watching that barrel! I never thought of it as a pro vegan episode - I always saw the angle of empathising with the alien and not with the humans. Both Torchwood and Dr Who would occasionally explore the 'aliens as people' type angle, reminding the audience that aliens aren't necessarily evil, just different. I guess a lot more racial overtones that animal rights. But as you say, lots of gray areas.

[@BradTheThird]

This must be the only episode I remember when I think "Torchwood". Just from the bit where they're eating pizza and someone says it a "meat feast".

[@oxenford539]

i don't see the unintentional vegetarian narrative as a bad thing. honestly, all the episode is doing is telling a story. if that story happens to make people uncomfortable about where their food comes from, then is it not probable that they already feel that way about eating meat to begin with, and normally just ignore/don't think about it? option 1: the story is so far from a depiction of the meat industry that it wouldn't make anyone feel uncomfortable because there's no real connection. option 2: the story is close enough that it causes people to think about what they eat. if that's the case, and they feel uncomfortable, then is that really the fault of the storyteller? or would it just be triggering them because it's making them face something they already feel uncomfortable about and normally ignore? (i'm not trying to say that eating meat is bad. i eat it, myself. i just think that the narrative people see in this is nothing more than people realising that they're uncomfortable with what they eat, and they don't like that. i mean ignore it all you want, but eating meat *is* literally eating a corpse.)

[@ReddwarfIV]

I'd say option 1.

[@user-jn1wm3tb8v]

The only meat I can think of is Barrowman's.

[@foxydev4056]

Stop.

[@director5831]

It was weird to see Matt Ryan outside of his Constantine role

[@PlanetNateGaming]

Matt Ryan as Constantine was the best, he embodied the character better than anyone ever could, I just wish the show was given a second season

[@director5831]

@@PlanetNateGaming Matt Ryan has reprised his role on DC's Legends of Tomorrow so we're still getting new Constantine content

[@TheAstip]

I brought like a couple episodes of torchwood to watch on my ipod at school when i was 12 - this was the one i had downloaded and always watched when i was bored

[@VixOfAllTrades]

Another excellent video. Really appreciate your work.

[@darksuperboy]

We don't chop up animals when it's alive, wait for it to grow back the chop it up again.

[@alim.9801]

Omg definitely my headcanon now that Ianto had a label maker phase and just went nuts in the hub 😭😭

[@krustykrabmeat6881]

The creature in this episode always reminded me of the star whale from doctor who

[@jw4499]

Is too much said about bad cgi ,it was probably the best they could do at the time with the budgets available CGI moves on so quickly, films and TV are out of date before they are shown . Still I do enjoy listening to your opinions and views .

[@mahfuzurchowdhury2765]

Hold up, I did not know Matt Ryan (Constantine) was in Torchwood...

[@hughjass1976]

I'm curious, what exactly is "lamb sauce"?

[@creed8712]

I assume it’s English steak sauce essentially

[@charmedrools1]

it's like tomato ketchup. but mint flavoured not tomato flavoured. goes great with lamb because the mint coveres the taste of sweat xD

[@hughjass1976]

@@charmedrools1 so, they mean mint sauce? Because that's what that's called

[@charmedrools1]

@@hughjass1976 they are the same thing. we call it lamb sauce in england since thats literally the only thing you eat it with

[@grimmestreaper2707]

I completely blocked the love triangle out of my mind

[@merlin8046]

I'm always surprised when you say that some episode was hated by the audience. I'm happy I never heard other people's opinions when I was first watching torchwood or doctor who. Most of people have such narrow perspectives about subjects and characters in these shows. This episode for example was amazing in every aspect. I didn't even look at the CGI that much. . . Torchwood is turning the frogs gay OMG that reference

[@alim.9801]

God Tosh trying to invite Owen out for pool is me from a couple years ago 💀💀

[@VixOfAllTrades]

And I've never noticed the TW branded basketball hoop before (despite having rewatched TW many times)🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@LollitaVamp]

I always thought the "meat creature" was a star whale that feel to earth 🌎

[@johannvongenerico9487]

Love triangles are so easy to use badly it seems

[@bobthesquirrel666]

Love that I got a nandos advert at the start of this video

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

Meat was the ep that proved Rhys was a fucking badass

[@bmvthemoviefanatic7282]

I've always loved this episode, so it's great this video gives it some love. Rhys is the best!

[@MightyElemental]

I've seen the episode, I saw the title of this video and I'm very lost. How is it anything vegan? I don't think anybody believes having an animal suffer is a good idea, regardless of diet.

[@MightyElemental]

@@ashleysherlock5705 Ah, well that clears some stuff up. I always wondered why vegans didn't want leather chairs - I just pictured people gnawing on furniture.

[@deadalive3288]

Was this before or after the horse meat scandal?

[@north3290]

Well before, this was 2008, the horse meat scandal was 2013. Unless there’s another horse meat scandal I’ve never heard of

[@alim.9801]

Gwen literally told the Torchwood team to touch some grass

[@ms.antithesis]

To be fair i didn't even notice the love triangle when i first watched it

[@mattegrey2609]

This is the episode that asked do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

[@shadowcat5939]

I'm the same though, short of someone directly tells me they like me I really don't pick up on it.

[@DDYTEDDY]

Rhy's PISS OFF still makes me laugh 😂

[@GeorgeRadcliffe]

This episode was one of the reasons I eventually went vegan, it’s so thought provoking and you start to realise every animal being farmed probably experiences a similar anguish to the alien in this episode

[@Victoria.Henderson]

I like Kai Owen, but until this ep.. I. Could. Not. Stand. Rhys. Season 3, I was a Rhys fan.

[@alim.9801]

IANTO WICK 😭😭😭😭

[@christophersheets5452]

What if its a baby Star Whale

[@GreenBoxStudio1]

Dark haired John Constantine in this episode

[@PlanetNateGaming]

I've never liked this episode as it lacks a threat level, it's just so basic and has a underlying message of "meat bad", to me it's the most forgettable episode of Torchwood, I can't wait for Harbo to get to Dead Man Walking and every episode after it cus thats when Owen becomes the best character

[@MigoLinden]

The originally omnisexual Captn Jack of DW shifted over to a very much less interesting homosexual Jack in TW, with Ianto as the only partner. I think they tried to do a Jack-Gwen relationship in order to put him back to his former identity.

[@mystic_mimi21]

I can see what you mean. But he does make a lot of references to his other partners. And he and Ianto are technically different species.

[@MigoLinden]

@@mystic_mimi21 "Different species"?! Jack is from the 51st century, that's all.

[@stevenhale2935]

Not sleeping with partners of multiple sexes doesn't make one any less omnisexual.

[@istaphobe]

What’s wrong with meat?! It tastes great and I love it. Having some right now.

[@fartsofdoom6491]

Mate, I absolutely adore your videos, but we're not "at our core built on greed and power", that just ain't true. Those evils are very much a part of human nature, obviously, but the fact that the economic system that's been around for about 200 years emphasises exactly these parts doesn't make them the "core" of our species any more than doing ten push-ups last week makes working out the core of my personality.

[@ReddwarfIV]

"It's exactly how we treat animals on our own planet" ... did you miss the part where we usually kill the animal first? We don't slowly cut them apart over the course of months while they're fully conscious like the kebab whale.

[@stevenhale2935]

You might want to look into the windows they fit to cows stonachs whilst they're alive.

[@zootizoot]

so you think breeding someone to torture and kill is better than catching someone to torture?

[@Domisbeast]

I'm sending 10:24 to my crush 🤣🤣

[@colmcille4388]

When are you doing and of time

[@scotcheggable]

I don't understand the vegetarian argument for this episode. Yes we eat meat, but we don't carve up animals while they're still alive so comparing the two doesn't seem honest. Well, I mean, *some* people carve up animals while they're alive but if you mention those people in a negative light in Britain then you go to jail.

[@mass9047]

Carving up animals while they're still alive happens very often. Stunning practices don't always work. Animals can have their throats slit and begin to be skinned alive while still being conscious. Regardless, is the fact that the animal is alive what makes it wrong?

[@mystic_mimi21]

Also it’s more of a reference to imprisoning animals and using them . More than the practical technicalities. And the treatment of animals in other industries other than the meat one

[@scotcheggable]

@@mass9047 killing them is one thing, torturing them is another. There's a reason why in areas of the West where execution is still on the books they spend ludicrous amounts of money making it as painless as possible.

[@1972LittleC]

Well, it didn't put me off of meat, and I never liked fish, so....

[@ms.antithesis]

HOW TF WASN'T THE VEGANISM THING INTENTIONAL? also worst cgi in doctor who cannon easily. Overall good story though