it got 59% winrate and 5/8 top8 with 25% presence, not even Hogaak did that
@mythito51203 ай бұрын
You know what this means right? Ban Springheart Nantuko.
@tarlin953 ай бұрын
@@mythito5120 True Nantuko has to be the problem in that deck! D:
@mythito51203 ай бұрын
@@tarlin95 Same level of power in Nadu as Bridge was for Hogaak, so it must be banned, right?
@tarlin953 ай бұрын
@@mythito5120 tbh I guess first ban gonna be shuko as you actually do not consider that nantuko is from MH3 too which makes it "unbannable" till you ban atleast 1 or 2 cards from other set for the problematic deck XD
@thomasmcmahan26313 ай бұрын
Ok but the data doesnt always determine card power, hogaak was definitely more broken and harder to beat than nadu is.
@reviewchan98063 ай бұрын
This was suppose to be a showcase of the new cards to sell the new set but all the cards became irrelevant being eclipsed by the bird. Never let middle managers design the set. They hate the game and dont play.
@the4eyednerdm.1253 ай бұрын
All I know is that the Rhystic Studies video on the bird is going to go HARD
@johndoriansmith3 ай бұрын
Dude on GOD "The Unboltable Bird"
@wintersmonologue3 ай бұрын
Bird needs a ban. Whoever got to design ALL the things it has should have their design card taken away. Unboltable at 4 toughness (especially with Fury banned for the greater good)? There is no "major" limit to triggers since it can be bounced for a reset? Triggers aren't draws? Triggers off ALL targeting not just opponents (which is more reasonable)? 3 mana cost? Also, not as important but still silly, they gave it flying. Yeah. Seems balanced on the surface. No one HAD to break that card before launch. Sleeper card for sure.
@Xoulrath_3 ай бұрын
This just goes to what I've been saying for years now about Legendaries: they need to actually be Legendary, and automatically be restricted to one ofs in decks. That alone solves so many problems in and of itself. Sure, some Legendary cards become useless as one ofs, but those cards probably weren't seeing a lot of play to begin with. But the cards that are seeing play, will still see play, while not being anywhere near as problematic as they are now. It should be painfully obvious to anyone paying attention that Wizards will continue to push these cards over and over and over. Fine, let them. Just restrict them and open up deck design.
@GrayVMhan3 ай бұрын
@@Xoulrath_ Just say you love hearthstone dude
@Xoulrath_3 ай бұрын
@@GrayVMhan I've never played Hearthstone, dude.
@Hapkins-le6xf3 ай бұрын
Why not just errata the bird so lands enter tapped and ban shuko?
@zackkelley29403 ай бұрын
Or just errata it so the effect is global instead of being given to ALL your creatures.... which would STILL be a pushed effect (just not nearly as insane as it is now).
@doomkingraye76923 ай бұрын
not based on the win but based on how the tournament turned out
@jasonkorf77003 ай бұрын
Yes, Nadu should be banned. As Saffron Olive on Mtggoldfish pointed out. Nadu had a more dominant performance than Hogaak in its first Pro Tour performance, which got Bridge from Below banned. Taking into account that if they ban Shuko. There are other enablers that can enable the combo. Plus, as pointed out, the combo is non-deterministic and can be overly complicated to track. Those things alone have gotten cards banned.
@DannyOE43 ай бұрын
This is what happens when they design for commander in every product they make. Either they just thought it'd make a cool commander that people would get excited over or they're completely ignorant to their own design. Probably both.
@KingZarathus3 ай бұрын
From watching the games there's two things that stood out to me about Nadu 1. The game play of a Nadu deck going off is horrible to watch and experience. It's not fun, it's not interesting, but it's non-deterministic enough the opponent shouldn't auto concede. 2. It's not a pure combo deck. A "fizzle" of the combo still leaves the Nadu player with an extremely dominating, probably winning, board state. It's extreme value and advantage even when it doesn't immediately win.
@djangotauro60883 ай бұрын
the solution to the problem would be to errata the text on nadu, making it only able to do its ability twice per turn ( not per creature but for the turn). similar to what they did to the companion mechanic.
@rajamicitrenti13743 ай бұрын
It's interesting to note that, while Bant Nadu went 50/50 against Jeskai Control, which looks like a strong showing for the control deck, 4-Color Nadu *crushed* Jeskai Control. It would be interesting to break down how the differences in those deck lists have such a strong impact, and ponder from that why 4-Color wasn't assumed to be the better version going Into this tournament.
@jtyree02263 ай бұрын
4 color is typically worse against faster combo and or big mana decks.
@iankane37323 ай бұрын
Deck that runs bowmasters being better against a one ring deck is not shocking at all lol.
@Martin-qb2mw3 ай бұрын
A-well, everybody's heard about the bird B-b-b-bird, bird, bird - b-bird's the word A-well, a-bird, bird, bird, - well, a-bird is the word
@nerd_mor3 ай бұрын
A-A-A Ban the bird Ba-ban the bird
@itanocircus20773 ай бұрын
This is what Magic looks like when design's first goal is to avoid feels-bad moments for Timmy.
@jonathonjudge73603 ай бұрын
The thing thats so hard about magic is when they fuck up like this, it's not like a video game where they can quickly tweak it to be once per turn or have lands come in tapped. The only way they can change it is by banning it which feels so bad when you design a card. Granted, I agree that the card was poorly designed, but having the extremes be either have the card stay the same and legal or completely ban the card feels so bad. I don't see there being a way to reword the card or change it anymore either. The only times they've done that was for old card and reprints and mostly just for clarification, not to change something completely
@tartarussauce19833 ай бұрын
Even the pro players think we should bant nadu
@brendanstevens5373 ай бұрын
I wish you hadn't said, "Wizards shouldn't have made Nadu say 'Only twice a turn', it should have only been 'Only once...'" Unfortunately, that's the exact - and wrong - lesson Wizards is going to learn from this card, too. That's surface level thinking. Since Wizards' introduction of the "Only once per turn" limitation (something I hated at first, but has ultimately resulted in less random "Oops I went infinite" designs, which is all around a good thing), each card has either had uncapped triggers or has been limited to a once a turn trigger, with no in between. "Only X times" is a fantastic knob to turn to tweak the power level of cards, and they should do it more often, not less. It's the equivalent of how they realized Lightning Bolt (R) was too good, but Shock (R) was too weak, yet increasing the cost of Lightning Bolt by a colorless to create Lightning Strike (1R) was the perfect middle ground for the Standard environment. "Only twice" is a great idea. That's not the problem with Nadu. I hope they don't shelf it. However. Nadu IS culmination of multiple years of idiotic power creep. The design is straight up clown shoes. Any one of the following changes would have made the card fair: 1.) Consider the power and toughness. This card is a 3/4 for 3 with flying. That is absurd. With it's effect, if it was a 2/1, it would still be broken. At least make it die to damage based removal. 2.) The ability might say "Twice a turn", but it isn't actually, since it does it for each creature. It should have only worked twice IN TOTAL a turn. This would be the new text: "Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability only triggers twice each turn." Note I've omitted "Each creature you control has" from the text box. Wow, they might even has space for flavor text, which could explain where this OP-ass bird was during the Amonkhet block in the first place. 3.) The ability could have been gated behind a mana cost, since Simic is supposed to the the color of endless ramp, and it would have given them a mana sink. This would be the new text: "Creatures you control have 'Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, YOU MAY PAY (1) AND reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability triggers only twice each turn." Stop making things free, Wizards. You suck. 4.) The ability could have put the lands into play tapped, like every other damned ramp card has understood since the dawn of time. Extra.) Also, an observation of sorts. Why does this card literally secretly give all of it's owner's creatures a one-sided Ward tax that let's them get a two for one for nothing? Why do I have to let you draw a card when I kill your Nadu? Suppose I manage to kill it, you get to can trip for MY efforts?
@zachardcastle80323 ай бұрын
to expland upon this from a cedh perspective, because this card is kinda ruining cedh atm too, when there are spells that let you just target every one of your creatures, you just respond to a counter or someone elses combo piece and you get to dig 5 cards and put out upward of 5 lands, which INEVITABLY ends up putting you into removal or counter magic and it just feels really hopeless playing against it,
@seandun70833 ай бұрын
@@brendanstevens537 I will add that while twice per turn is an interesting design space in theory, the way it's implemented here, where it gives the ability to all your creatures, is a bad design due to the horrible tracking issues, especially since it encourages getting complex board states.
@muditjohar53233 ай бұрын
The really surprising part is everyone knew nadu would be the deck to beat and it still had 4/4 representation in the top 4. That’s insane
@AbstractMarcher3 ай бұрын
Nadu. Grief. One Ring. Get them out. WOTC, please do not make the bridge from below mistake. Get rid of the freaking bird.
@SaltySparrow3 ай бұрын
Maybe they can errata the bird to say the ability happens twice per turn PERIOD. Not twice per turn on each creature.
@seandun70833 ай бұрын
That would be a pretty big functional change and would require more of a wording change than it looks like at first glance. Better to just ban it.
@reviewchan98063 ай бұрын
Once, and tapped. Done
@Lleldorellin3 ай бұрын
WotC doesn't do power level-based erratas, and I don't think that would be a great idea.
@seandun70833 ай бұрын
@@reviewchan9806 that definitely does make it a lot harder to get the critical mass needed to keep going. It would still be a boring design, but would be less immediately broken. "An opponent controls" I think would do it singlehandedly, or maybe remove "or ability".
@phrozen663 ай бұрын
@@Lleldorellin They did for companion.
@Ryan_but_the_name_was_taken3 ай бұрын
Are there any cards that shut it down? Do they expect people to run dress down as “removal” or final showdown maybe? I can’t think of other effective ways to stop something immune to bolt. Maybe wizards wants new types removal used in the format
@alpha340983 ай бұрын
Yes, the "Deal 5 Damage to Target Creature" kind of removal
@Przivel3 ай бұрын
There is no more individuality in the pro tour any more it feels like. Just pros using the best decks instead of using decks that kinda represent them or their respective strengths. I know it’s cheesy but we had pillars who were known for using infect, or burn or affinity or etc. MTG feels like it’s going away from the core of the spirit of the game and it’s diving into step two ships battling in the night.
@Xoulrath_3 ай бұрын
It isn't that other decks aren't viable. It's that these "pros" are trying to make money. So it's just much easier for them to narrow the meta as much as possible, and plan accordingly. Modern still has a ton of functional "rogue" decks that work quite well. People at large just tend to ignore it as it requires some actual effort.
@Przivel3 ай бұрын
@@Xoulrath_ definitely understand that logic, it makes the game plan easier. But we as fans want to see different decks. They don’t have to be fringe decks but I wanna see scam vs tron or bant nadu vs control, Nadu imo made* it hard to enjoy the gameplay. The coverage was amazing as always with the pro tour. I may be complaining but it’s my honest opinion. I wish more diversity, not just copy paste match ups.
@larsegholmfischmann65943 ай бұрын
I'm super happy and proud of Simon who I've known since he was a young man just starting out on his MTG journey. Played against him several times at FNMs and he always handed me my backside! I guess there was a very good reason for that. Should Nadu be banned? Yeah, maybe, unless a catch-all answer comes along to stop it.
@zeusjukem94842 ай бұрын
@@larsegholmfischmann6594 i read this mentally in a scottish accent and it was so funny thank you
@tartarussauce19833 ай бұрын
Galvanic Blast the Bird!
@GoldenKid24K3 ай бұрын
Yall gotta think about the fact that there were Nadu VS Nadu Mirror Matches that made that win percentage go down to 59 percent instead of being in the 60's
@coriandyr3 ай бұрын
Saw someone call it hot bird summer 😂
@quantum_beeb3 ай бұрын
Sucks to be the one nadu player left out of T4 haha
@Joelthelobo3 ай бұрын
Unban twin and like 10-15 other cards leave nadu. Let the format be degenerate. DRS artifact lands p fire shoal glimpse fury ponder twin jitte GSZ outburst
@philbuttler34273 ай бұрын
Not testing your set for Modern is gonna end up wrecking the format who woulda guessed?
@leotamer53 ай бұрын
You say that like this is a card that is fair for other formats.
@arthurgiuliano33173 ай бұрын
Wizzards probably will try banning the "enablers" even tho anything that targets ia a potential combo The real solution is never again developing a 3 mana simic card that has anything to do with ramp, card draw or elks
@Flamingcloud0833 ай бұрын
Time for a Urza Saga ban? 🤣
@thousand11833 ай бұрын
Can't wait for shuko to be banned instead
@danw.12503 ай бұрын
Yes. And for good measure hit the Ring and Necro too. You just know Mono B is going to go nuts as soon as the bird goes.
@MTGEDH3 ай бұрын
Thoracle is old news and most of the decks didn't run it because it is unnecessary. You just blow up the lands and bounce any permanents with Otawara and Boseiju and keep doing it over and over with Evoking Endurance and stacking the triggers so Endurance goes into the graveyard and then is shuffled.
@reddrake403 ай бұрын
Yes Nadu absolutely NEEDS a ban. Playing more removal won’t stop it from triggering when targeted, I feel that having it around just stifles other decks from seeing play since it is just so effective, I think that the only thing that will result of “letting the meta develop” as people say will just give Nadu decks more time to develop and also find their own answers. Wotc probably won’t ban the bird right away but they really should.
@Sorran873 ай бұрын
Better question. Why SHOULDN'T we ban the bird? This is not meant to be a leading question. I'd like to hear the argument against banning Nadu immediately
@Enja_Near3 ай бұрын
After the Pro Tour there's no argument. Bird's gotta go.
@Xoulrath_3 ай бұрын
If you ban Nadu, then all of the players who don't actually know how to play the game will be able to continue thinking that they do. So yeah, ban Nadu so the bads can keep their egos.
@huddleaw3 ай бұрын
WOTC making that surprised Pikachu face lol
@only_folls3 ай бұрын
think about how Bant is "brokers". evil money types wanted this... sad what has happened to the game. think about how much Theros duals and filter lands have been printed... they want to devalue when packs were a decent price "old stuff" and have new sealed product be "worth something" its awful...its why collector boosters and commander precons are the same price basically others have said what's more worth your dollar but few see what these people are doing
@only_folls3 ай бұрын
Also the bird looks like Thoth...the ancient Egyptian God of wisdom etc think about that and eye of providence etc...evil people left too much of a trail on this one and it should be investigated
@Carriantor3 ай бұрын
Wizards will want more data.
@feelingthislife3 ай бұрын
The stats alone are a problem. A 3/4 flyer for 3 would be good on its own. No idea how this made it
@sothisis19623 ай бұрын
In fairness. At the end of the day, it’s a sorcery speed creature deck. Halfling prevents it from being countered but it being a sorcery speed deck (especially) on the turn it comes out it’s difficult to use (free) counter magic. I saw the deck list of the Jeskai control and it doesn’t seem all that impressive. 1 snap, 1 subtlety. A few spellsnare, etc. being weak to removal REALLY matters here. And well it’s modern. Dies to removal isn’t a great answer but dies to removal + sorcery speed wins. The cards strong no doubt, deserve a ban. Mehhhh
@Xoulrath_3 ай бұрын
It's the same shit, different day, as always. One tournament and it's armageddon for the game.
@morocomole45673 ай бұрын
Give me back Hogaak and Looting or ban the bird
@dougiedoug75433 ай бұрын
As feel bad as grief is… is it a necessary evil to keep combo decks in check?
@jasonkorf77003 ай бұрын
The issue is the scam part and that it's a free spell. The decks do also play Thoughtseize and the Rakdos build also plays Kroxa. So the decks aren't lacking in hand disruption. The fact that a scam player can play grief for free and then bring it back to the battlefield for one mana to have a 3/2 menace creature and be able to take your opponents best two cards on practically turn zero for your opponent. That's interaction, that's steamrolling your opponent before they even have a chance to play anything. Look I'm all for interaction, but Grief's design is problematic because of how easily it's abused. Be it fair decks, combo, Aggro, control, and etc.
@JohnFromAccounting3 ай бұрын
In modern, maybe. In legacy, it needs to go.
@Order-tq7no3 ай бұрын
unban fury and violent outburst!!!
@roamno78773 ай бұрын
Lands entering tapped doesn’t balance it. It just becomes the better amulet deck
@Sinistra3593 ай бұрын
Tell us you didn't test that card without telling is you didnt test the card 😂
@scottcampbell95153 ай бұрын
You have to ban other things in the deck first, just like Hogaak, right? I mean Hogaak is the MH1 version of Nadu afterall.
@hobez643 ай бұрын
Yeah but those other bans did nothing to slow down Hogaak, same to reason doing that with something like that with Shuko or En-Kor would just end with the same results
@safrussalmus90563 ай бұрын
I'd say Hogaak proved that banning support pieces can fail, and Nadu is even more dominant than Hogaak was, so the risk is not worth it.
@scottcampbell95153 ай бұрын
@@hobez64 ...right, and that's the joke. That's also what I expect because of how WotC has operated in the past. Also Modern RCQ starts soon so I can see them trying the same approach.
@hobez643 ай бұрын
@@scottcampbell9515 Sorry, I legitimately couldn't tell your original comment was sarcasm, I thought it was serious
@scottcampbell95153 ай бұрын
@@hobez64 Why not both? We can joke about what WotC has done AND predict what they are most assuredly going to do going forward. In the business that is what we call a "2-for-1".
@marcelinorodriguez76283 ай бұрын
Congrats to him, He was lucky the control player was his teammate and knew on how counter his deck, and suncleanser carried so hard
@Hapkins-le6xf3 ай бұрын
I'm extremely confused on why everyone is stuck on whether to ban or not. Why is no one talking about just making a simple errata, lands enter tapped. If needed, shuko could be banned as well. That would preserve a still strong card in a new archetype, while significantly lowering it's power. And I know someone is going to say, why ban shuko for nadus crimes? Because shuko sees zero play outside of nadu. No deck gets hurt by removing shuko accept nadu decks.
@hahayes10723 ай бұрын
I don't think it should be banned, I just think the metagame needs some adjusting
@whddlD3 ай бұрын
make it a 1 of in modern or a 2 of in modern and then ban it as a commander
@supwithunerd3 ай бұрын
the drastic comparison of games played alone is worrisome. B A N N E D.
@kiernanoh3 ай бұрын
You know its busted when you bolt the bird and the bird lives... and ramps a million
@TheBasedBoiOG3 ай бұрын
Birds 100% fine. What does need a ban however is that new ulimog. Im not taking arguments.
@D00ML0RD13 ай бұрын
59% winrate 62.5% top 8 presence 100% top 4 and it won ya its ban worthy
@DELTA-Gacha-Addict3 ай бұрын
Nah I wanna fight against Nadu, Blade of Miquella.
@D0012D133 ай бұрын
Wizards would ban shuko first
@wqweqwet18043 ай бұрын
Yes. Moving on-
@doylemb13 ай бұрын
Is this Birdemic!? yes
@Polemion3 ай бұрын
let the meta shift around it
@Flamingcloud0833 ай бұрын
Nadu.. 5/8 top 8! is less impressive than... Nadu 4/4 top 4!
@exposfan94movies3 ай бұрын
Easier to win when you cheat your own teammate out of the quarter-finals.
@UnmagicalMage3 ай бұрын
That settles it. Gotta unban Hogaak
@danielcohenmunwes3 ай бұрын
I mean the deck is called banned Nadu 😅
@PsychoEkan3 ай бұрын
Should nadu be banned? probably.. Should we not cheat and play fairly, and also have judges available when having champion chip matches? probably!
@williamdrum98993 ай бұрын
If it should be banned it's shouldn't be just because it won, that's what Yugioh does
@robertmahanna68953 ай бұрын
Nadu should have been banned before release. It was obviously way to broken.
@Marcosomos3 ай бұрын
Is in the f-ing name, ban nadu :v
@noneofyourbusiness32883 ай бұрын
Good that Splinter Twin is banned :)
@Kylora21123 ай бұрын
Nadu needs to banned from Modern, and probably Commander, too.
@pug87143 ай бұрын
Nah, commander is fine.
@burningpapersun13 ай бұрын
B I R D S U M M E R
@OrsusButcher3 ай бұрын
Just play suppression field
@JohnFromAccounting3 ай бұрын
Yeah, we need to ban the bird.
@dominicius773 ай бұрын
I want it banned in commander.
@controlaltdeleteish3 ай бұрын
Unban fury
@aidanpark71463 ай бұрын
Ban him lol
@icemilitia3 ай бұрын
"DECKS ARE GOOD WE SHOULD BAN THEM." Gosh I hate the MTG community
@zachardcastle80323 ай бұрын
thats not whats being said tho, when a deck is completely, utterly dominant like nadu is right now its just not healthy for the format, what people want is diversity and to play against a variety of decks, not just infinite nadu/ hogak/ eldrazi etc. mirrors, murktide is a great deck, storm is a great deck, but people (generally) arent calling for bans, nadu is just so poorly designed leading to such a dominant position, like that of eldrazi winter and hogak, that it deservves a call for a ban
@pug87143 ай бұрын
It's more like "The deck is quite literally the best out there. Don't play anything else, it isn't worth it. It's Nadu, the gathering"
@JohnFromAccounting3 ай бұрын
There is no strategy better than Nadu, so everyone should play Nadu if they want to win.
@seandun70833 ай бұрын
@@icemilitia do you understand that the banlist exists for a reason? Look at the data quoted in the video. The deck did better at this pro tour than any other broken deck in recent memory.
@TheREALIzludez3 ай бұрын
He cheated to win. And yes. ban the bird.
@matthewblackwood96533 ай бұрын
Well, if there is only one competitive deck and all the cards are legal you aren’t cheating by playing it.
@TheREALIzludez3 ай бұрын
@matthewblackwood9653 he knew he couldn't target his opponent but target him anyway and won because of it.
@matthewblackwood96533 ай бұрын
@@TheREALIzludez Oof, stand corrected.
@amigraber60623 ай бұрын
BOLT the bird
@jasonkorf77003 ай бұрын
The bird won't die to the bolt, and you just triggered it.
@BoltTheEmolga3 ай бұрын
Congrats, you Bolted the bird and not only did it survive, but they won due to it.
@amigraber60623 ай бұрын
@@jasonkorf7700 I know, I mean he was saying burn
@amigraber60623 ай бұрын
@@jasonkorf7700 he should have said bolt the bird instead of burn
@DaHamma773 ай бұрын
it is just too much. Should be banned
@qedproqwo16343 ай бұрын
Banning cards because they performed well in an event vs adjusting to new metas is why modern is a lame format.
@Dazzleteats3 ай бұрын
Hes fine. Pro tour had a terrible representation of what the format really is.
@alejoclosa77053 ай бұрын
didn't happen something similar with Eldrazi winter and Hogaak summer? i mean a deck coming out of nowhere from the last set, getting incredible results in pro tour and latter having it's most important piece banned because the deck is broken
@D0012D133 ай бұрын
All top 4 are nadu at pro tour but joe blow over here thinks he knows better
@philcoats68123 ай бұрын
Nah dude.
@Xoulrath_3 ай бұрын
@@D0012D13yeah, dismiss the knowledge of one person, because someone is called a "pro," which is short for PROMOTIONAL. There have NEVER been PAID players on WotC's staff in the entire history of the game. These "pros" are the absolute fucking worst at actually innovation. They play what everyone else plays. Then the million answers that already exist just get overlooked and it's time to call for a ban. Because god forbid that someone actually uses old cards.
@Valo9153 ай бұрын
I'm liking your video only to support you and your content, I do not agree with burning the bird just yet. Yes it is a menace but I think it needs to cause more damage first so wizards can sit back and really assess what the power creep has become over the past couple sets. Now I know the modern sets aren't your normal card set. A lot of cards in these are more powerful than what you would see in the main story, but I feel as though some of these cards are getting far too out of hand and creative needs to slow it down a bit before this game turns into Yu-Gi-Oh with consistent one to two turn win conditions.
@mrskittles64863 ай бұрын
This deck is strait up boring as hell to play against and the fact that i jyst cant scoop to it sucks on mtgo. I have no issue to scooping thing like yawgmoth but watching my opponent combo for 10 mins to nit win is awful. The only good part is shit talking my opponent and then just killing them and they are always like your just playing for time no bro you wasted 10 minutes to not even win your just like eggs and you wiffed and now your dead