UE4 to UE5 - Impacts & Changes to your workflow

[@VRDivision]

It's good to see you back Ryan, great video!

[@JustSketchDesign]

Wow that’s crazy... I might have to download it and give it a shot. Thanks Ryan that’s useful info to know...

[@sqwert654]

Just feel good that I have ignored LOD's and learning proper lighting for the last 2 years ;)

[@sddrx6000]

me too!!! I always thought LOD making process is a whole ordeal.

[@DeathDealer-DD]

did the same. LODs are just an extra wasted effort...and lighting wasn't intuitive. thanks god UE5 does it all...now i can focus more effort toward content quality without worrying

[@harrysanders818]

Lol same here, for some reason.. I never got into creating LODs, and at the point where I might should have started looking into them, Unreal makes them obsolete. It is incredible.

[@sqwert654]

@@harrysanders818 same thing happened when I started iOS development Apple implemented auto garbage collection saving me a lot of work lol

[@monkeyrobotsinc.9875]

Uhhhh, making lods is fun and relaxing and you still have to do it on any movable objects wam!

[@johanneslang7607]

Thank you so much for sharing your in-depth view as a professional! I really appreciate it!

[@RedzwanulHuq]

About time we got a ue5 video from you. Would love to see you migrate a full archviz project from ue4 and light it in ue5.

[@ThatRyanManning]

Literally did just that when grabbing some b-roll for the ArchViz section of this video 😀! Quite simply put; opened scene, deleted all lights but the directional light, checked Lumen was on. Done! I'll highlight some things in a future video on how to control Lumen.

[@RedzwanulHuq]

@@ThatRyanManning still getting the final look must be some more tweaking. And watching you do it step by step will be more helpful for me than you think

[@dusnmatr]

Very comprehensive. Answered all the questions I had.

[@marklavania3680]

Gold! Thank you Ryan

[@crit_cannon1090]

Great info and great production quality

[@videoart1496]

Nice intro... Thank you. It would be nice if you could make a tutorial with a small indoor and outdoor scene from the scratch and show us how to light it based on the new elements they are in UE5 :DDD

[@kyokurosaki6846]

Really good video, helped a lot, thank you!!!

[@aleksandratraczyk8440]

As always fantastic video! I cant wait to try ue5!! Definitely a game changer for game industry

[@quietlyworking]

Very helpful. Thank you:)

[@neoviva]

thank you Ryan.help you can update more UE5 video.

[@DevDunkStudio]

Sweet video!

[@RomasNoreika]

Magic video thanks Ryan.

[@RaviTomar__]

Top notch training!

[@DzmitryAnoshka]

Thanks

[@jamesbrady1930]

how do I enable procedural foliage spawner? I am doing a map for my terrain. it doesn't show up. is it a different tab/object?

[@buffaloSoldier519]

Lumen is not a replacement for RTX. Epic said the depreciated notation was solely for that specific version of RTX was implemented, there’s a newer implementation in the works.

[@Romeo615Videos]

Hey good vid

[@islambelal7248]

Hello, I was trying to create Aim Offset Animations through Bone Transformation. When I do the transformations, add a key I can’t seem to apply it. In UE4 there is a button as “Apply additive Layer Tracks to Runtime Animation Data” but I couldnt find it on UE5. Any help? Thanks

[@iotservices8752]

How could I get those assets, I meant the assets you are using on this video

[@TheLordOfWolves]

I just tried to replace tessellation with Virtual Heightfield Mesh and if the mesh is Nanite it wont work which means if you want to have highly detailed terrain you will have to use low poly meshes in order to not affect performance which makes Nanite at this time quite hard to swallow :D

[@jonusiak5123]

Awesome stuff again! You are right on top of things! I wasn't sure if it was mentioned, but when it comes to the high poly meshes into Unreal, is Vertex color respected or are UVs still necessary?

[@ThatRyanManning]

Vertex color still applies, just know with Nanite you can't paint vertex colors on mesh instances (current limitation with Early Access). UVs are still necessary! Not other way to map textures to 3D objects without UVs.

[@usiakgamesanddesigns7769]

@@ThatRyanManning yeah until ptex is used in real time I guess we'll be using uvs for awhile lol. Thank you for the insight. Whoops I had my other KZbin account on during this comment.

[@harrysanders818]

@@ThatRyanManning ok, but how to UV map 1,5 mio+ tris meshes? I guess auto unwrap algorithms wont cut it for less organic things other than rocks. I think there will be a painting system in future as well. In a live stream, they already hinted that there will be a system in nanite similar to vertex painting, but it wont be vertex based anymore. Pretty excited how that will work. Cause we also still need a way to blend materials.

[@ThisIsNotWhatItLooksLik]

8:00 why is valley of the ancient over 100 gigs if it packages to well?

[@DatGuyGLK]

because it is not packaged

[@Burnrate]

They said they didn't have time to optimize and remove a lot of redundant things. They made the levels and demo in just a couple weeks.

[@ThisIsNotWhatItLooksLik]

@@DatGuyGLK Hmm, weird way to demo not to make it the best way possible. It has made people confused.

[@DatGuyGLK]

@@ThisIsNotWhatItLooksLik what do you mean? The point of the sample project was to show people all the things possible to do with it. If they would just package the project then nobody would have access to the blueprints etc.

[@ThisIsNotWhatItLooksLik]

@@DatGuyGLK Oh, I did not know that. Makes more sense now. Maybe if they had made a packaged version also then people would have a better sense of the file size. I guess we can do it ourselves but would have made it more clear. Now I am more exited for it again.

[@melomaniakjm]

Never heard if Vitural production. Is it new?

[@antoniopepe]

thanks Ryan.thanks for all the clarifications, but then I did not understand 2/3 thing about Lumen. The shadows when you were in the archviz section were not the best. a little jagged. there is a way to pump the quality of Lumen, another thing I saw is that now Lumen runs via software, there is a way to activate Lumen via Hardware, for us who have an RTX, in my case a 3090. even the reflections on the chrome are very blurred, again due to of Lumen, is there a way to raise the quality of reflection capture?

[@katanalevygames]

You can increase Lumen quality settings with a post process volume. There are quality values for GI and reflections (not sure if they make much improvement for shadows tho).

[@ThatRyanManning]

What Chris said. That scene wasn't built for UE5, as such, there were some settings that needed to be changed, but could be changed, to increase the quality.

[@antoniopepe]

@@ThatRyanManning thanks Ryan and Chris. Hey Ryan did you have Buy me a coffee or a Paypal account ? other Masters have linked them to the you tube channel. to show you appreciation for your content!

[@jsemfotomodelka]

I am little bit sceptical about: 1) i am really curious about profiling on interior scenes in game. Lets talk about classic scene in something like Bioshock. Scene with 3000 actors and more than 100 lights. 2) Complex collisions - I assume that I can't use complex collisions for physics, that's ok. But how do I work in the game, do I work at all? What if the projectile bounces off a rock that is out of sight? How much is it optimized on place such like this? 3) limitations (only opaque, no vertex offset...) - for example. If you have level with lots of organic massess from alien life that its threating your life - you still need old fashional low poly mesh with vertex offset, etc for animations. Seeing real detailed static models next to low poly with normal will contribute to an inconsistent result - the demo already had a stylized character who looks like from Prince of Persia and stood out from the environment. I assume that static tents or flags moving in the wind will have to be done the old-fashioned way. Or maybe subsurface? (ice for example) 4) Chaos, nanite and performance when its creating? 5) How and where you can made skin for model with a million triangles? :-D (usually it was hardsurface with tessalation modifier after it was skinned)

[@nickpinkowski]

1) pretty sure it will perform better as Nanite batches all drawcalls and all you have left are material instances calls 2) physics don't change at all, you use the same, old workflow; even without Nanite you weren't supposed to create fully detailed physics meshes and use primitives for most objects 3) limitations you mentioned are present at the Early Access release, they didn't say it won't be supported in the future; if I'm not mistaken they said on Nanite live stream that they will work on missing features after 5.0 release; but even then - for leaves you can use the old approach and don't make up problems with animated characters... they were lower detail up to this moment also because otherwise they would stood out from the environment and old gen consoles weren't as fast, with better surroundings and next-gen performance characters can have more detail, although I think skinning will eventually come to the Nanite, world pos offset is a bigger problem, I think, when it comes to occluding 4) Don't know the details about that, but there was showed a block demolition in the last demo

[@jsemfotomodelka]

@@nickpinkowski Hi. Thanks. But default projectiles (projectile movement component) for example use complex collisions, they dont use physics meshes (simple collisions) at all (its raycasts and vector math and they have nothing to do with physics). Simple collisions that are for physics (pawn, etc) should be as simple as possible. You cannot use them for projectiles due to inaccuracies.

[@jbach]

Nice overview. On closer inspection it seems Lumen does not do Raytraced reflections, refractions. Am I wrong?

[@ThatRyanManning]

WIP from what I can tell. However, you can toggle between Lumen and RTX for reflections in the project settings.

[@TheUkuleleXD]

Would you help me how to set up displacement for subdivided mesh in UE5? I know that it has been disablen, but is there still any way how to turn it on?

[@youtubi123youtubipel]

Dos Nanite work for Static meshes that are set to Movable? Or just for static meshes that are static in the scene?

[@suchsneak3545]

That big boss from the demo had nanite objects on it. From what I understand nanite objects can move and scale but not warp.

[@youtubi123youtubipel]

@@suchsneak3545 Well remembered! That's true, so Nanite objects CAN move.

[@harrysanders818]

Deforming nanite meshes are in the works they said in recent live streams!

[@legice]

Hey Ryan! At 7:52, you mentioned the size difference, but what about render speed? Im guessing theoretically, because since it is constantly recalculating everything, shouldn't that have a performance hit? Thanks!=)

[@ThatRyanManning]

IMO, the performance of Lumin and Nanite is on par with and/or better than RTX. The tech processing the recalculations behind the scenes was built for it and it handles it quite nicely. The great part is it can be selectively toggled on/off as needed.

[@aaayerus]

I didn't quite get if lightmaps aren't gonna be accepted anymore what-so-ever or if it's gonna be an option. What about updating old version projects to Unreal 5? Is it going to discard the maps?

[@ThatRyanManning]

Optional. You can turn Lumen or off in the project settings.

[@harrysanders818]

You forgot the Meta Sounds system! :) Basically UE5 now has its own DAW!

[@ThatRyanManning]

Yes! Big change to audio workflow.

[@lgoritme]

where i can download sample project like in your video

[@ThatRyanManning]

Unreal Launcher under UE5 tab.

[@lgoritme]

@@ThatRyanManning thanks i newbie..

[@harrysanders818]

One thing I dont understand is how roughness information gets read from a mesh without textures. I assume you can leave out normal maps and ao. This makes sense, because this detail is now geometric and lumen covers even small shadowing and occlusion detail, which also makes AO baking obsolete(which is sick). But, how about base color and roughness? I assume we could import polypaint for it? Definetly we won't texture 1.5 mio tris meshes on a 0-1 space UV map in Substance Painter? I understand the megascans work and are already properly uv mapped with a high res scanned texture, but I still don't entirely get how the material setup would work if you are sculpting the meshes yourself. I heard a vertex painting like tool is on the way for nanite. But still, I hope polypaint will somehow be an option. Or something similar. Maybe they will indeed integrate something like polypaint even into the engine. Currently I feel a bit confused about the texturing pipeline in nanite.

[@ThatRyanManning]

Roughness, Basecolor, etc still driven through materials. Normals maps have been traditionally designed to augment details...whereas nanite can handle the detail through geo now.

[@Killswitch1411]

@@ThatRyanManning That doesn't really answer his question as to how its being Uv mapped and texturing process. We need some kinda of tutorial on how to texture a High poly mesh thats from Zbrush and not a phot scanned model.

[@DatGuyGLK]

I cant seem to get lumen work well for archviz yet. The Indirect lighting seems to be too blurry and too dark overall, some shadows are very bad. Also it sometimes has some screen space artifacts. For now Light baking is still the way to go imo.

[@ThatRyanManning]

There are some parameters and console commands you can use to up the quality and mitigate the things you mentioned. I'm still investigating some of those and figuring out the performance/quality balance.

[@DatGuyGLK]

@@ThatRyanManningI'll definitely gonna be keeping my eyes peeled for any new discoveries by the community to improve the quality. That being said since it's only alpha, the future is looking bright, pun intended

[@kerogre256]

@@DatGuyGLK kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXeuf6KbirWEfbM here is video William talking about fixing some issue with lumen and specifically shadows at 8:08

[@j_may]

Hi Im really struggling with noisy / splotchy shadows in my archviz projects in UE5. I find that adjusting the lighting, simplifying the materials and checking the UVs are well mapped, that nothing seems to fix it. Do you have any ideas what I could try? (Lumen is enabled) Great video by the way!

[@synthoelectro]

If it runs smoother on my 1650 gtx, then I'll be very happy.

[@edgesvideogames5582]

Thank you for your in depth coverage , very informative. One thing however i am unable to get from any such video is that are are assets purchased from the marketplace that were compatible with UE4.26 compatible with UE5 or is it upto the asset creator to port all the assets to UE5? How does that workout? Response to this will greatly help people, thanks!

[@lhmsc]

I heard that 4.26 is totally compatible with UE5, so no port is needed. You can literally just open the 4.26 project in UE5 normally.

[@edgesvideogames5582]

@@lhmsc sounds fantastic, thanks for letting me know :)

[@ThatRyanManning]

Yup! Exactly what Luis said. Just open you UE4 projects in UE5.

[@edgesvideogames5582]

@@ThatRyanManning great thanks :)

[@adamplechaty]

I heard that for datasmith worfklow you still need to chop the scene into modular pieces to get the most out of mesh distancefields, is that correct?

[@JamesBrett2008]

I am 6 months into learning UE4 and have spent a lot of time learning lighting/baking/settings etc. Should I continue on that path or just take what I know, install UE5 now and dont look back?

[@ThatRyanManning]

Yes. Continue learning everything you're learning for UE4 will apply in UE5.

[@fovkoss7]

Hey Ryan, I know that the UE5 demo was captured on PS5 / Xbox Series X. However, I am skeptical how nanite and lumen will work on previous gen consoles (PS4 / Xbox One / lower end PCs) performance wise. As game developers will still want to release their games on next get as well as on current gen hardware, or maybe even low-end pcs... As you have spent some time with the nanite and lumen, did you had a chance to test UE5 on PS4 devkit for example ? Please share your thoughts. Thanks

[@ThatRyanManning]

Here's what I know so far. 1) Public dev access isn't available yet for console source Code Binaries (still Early Access/limited access) so hard to give specific metrics on prevoius gen console performance with UE5. 2) Nanite & Lumen can be disabled in your project/content so theoretically should be able to achieve previous gen performance with UE5 once it hits stable release. 3) Lumen & Nanite process on a sub-layer of the engine code, thus, theoretically should be able to be customized towards hardware using .ini/code-level files to control performance and overhead (but unsure of the full extent of those at the moment). & 4) Lower-end PCs will be (IMO) the most determining factor behind building projects in UE5 using Lumen; more specifically unknown what fallback measures will be implemented (aka, disable Lumen on a 980ti but use what...built lighting? Don't know!)

[@ZephrusPrime]

So does Nanite allow you to import a ZBrush high poly WITH vertex color data?

[@harrysanders818]

I am having the same question, see my comment in latest.

[@Ferodra]

Is there a place where one can report bugs in UE5 already? Encountered several critical things that definetely need fixing. One of them being the SpeedTree wind making the trees almost form a black hole

[@PampersRockaer]

www.unrealengine.com/en-US/support/report-a-bug in The Unreal Engine Report-A-Bug form you can select 5.0 Early Access as affected version.

[@YogendraAgarwalIndian]

Huh talk about timing. I just started learning UE4 2 days ago from Unreal Online learning. So should I download UE5 and just start with UE5 only? Mainly I am just gonna use it for Importing my Mesh from Maya and textures from SP to do rendering...

[@ThatRyanManning]

I recommend sticking with UE4 until UE5 exits Early Access. For renders UE5 is fine.

[@YogendraAgarwalIndian]

@@ThatRyanManning Thanks, will do that

[@Hydr312]

If I learn UE5 can I use UE4 aswell :D ?

[@ThatRyanManning]

Yes!

[@neoviva]

If zbursh make high ploy,how to apply texture to high ploy.how to high ploy import to substance painter

[@ThatRyanManning]

"Auto unwrap"

[@neoviva]

@@ThatRyanManninglet me try

[@harrysanders818]

@@ThatRyanManning That works on rocks, not hard surface objects. There will be the need of manual techniques as well. Also, with auto unwrap, you wont be able to take texel density into account.

[@ThatRyanManning]

@@harrysanders818 This is that point where innovation (UE5) drives changes for ancillary tech tools. I know Maya, Max, and Substance Painter have increased their capabilities of unwrapping high poly meshes automatically...and sometimes the results are good. Zbrush has been doing for a while, and is still IMO the best contender for auto-unwrap/control.

[@MonsterJuiced]

Hey man what would you say about performance impact? I've noticed nanite gave me extra frames, but using lumen over raytraced ate my vram quite hard.

[@ThatRyanManning]

That it wil, but then again the visual benefit is quite incredible for consumer hardware. Even the specs state lumen runs best on beefy hardware. Caveat, still early access. I'm sure Epic devs are working on optimizations.

[@MonsterJuiced]

@@ThatRyanManning Got my fingers crossed man, I'm so impressed with it all so far. My work is far from done but even the simple blockout meshes are looking real sweet now.

[@attilafenyvesi5800]

I haven’t downloaded it yet, but how does Nanite affect the materials? I assume we don’t need to use normal maps anymore (at least with high poly meshes). But is there anything else that has changed?

[@defiant4eva]

Who said you don't need normal maps anymore? You will still need normal, AO, metallic, roughness, etc in your materials, even bump maps if you use them. Nanites isn't some magical tool that turns an albedo into a 3D or the illusion of a 3D object or surface. Nanite is for the most part reducing your LOD workflow. Oh and nanite only works with static meches, but foliage doesn't count, apparently because of the transparency.

[@ThatRyanManning]

Nanite meshes are just static meshes that process on a different rendering pass (per say) and thus authoring for Nanite is the same as static meshes. You just need to flag your asset as "Use Nanite" whether on import or in the asset editor window. Normal maps aren't needed if you have enough geometry to negate the need for a normal map. There are some current limitations with nanite that may effect your workflow; ex: you can't use vertex painting on Nanite mesh instances. Either way, you'll need to create UVs/materials all the same.

[@attilafenyvesi5800]

@@defiant4eva Who said I don't need normal maps anymore? Ryan himself above! My question was about HIGH poly meshes. And obviously I didn't expect AO and other maps to be vanished. (I didn't even mention them.) I'm not a pro, but I have some experience with PBR workflow. I know the basics.

[@attilafenyvesi5800]

@@ThatRyanManning Thank you! So if I have a high poly mesh straight from ZBrush or a smoothed mesh from Maya then I can skip the normal baking. That's cool! Baking AO and the others are obviously still needed, but I'm pretty much happy if I don't need to retopo my high polys and I can save one baking step, even though UV mapping high polys might be a bit more challenging (haven't done yet).

[@attilafenyvesi5800]

@DWSGamesArt Tran Thank you! I'm aware of the "static only" limitation. And as Ryan mentioned above there's other limitations too.

[@Navhkrin]

I don't think there is any reason not to turn on Nanite unless it is causing some light artifact or something.

[@TheLordOfWolves]

tessellation is dead i get that you have infinite triangles now but tessellation on landscapes was a huge time saver, with nanite you have to place meshes lots and lots and lots, i hope tessellation gets added back such a useful feature

[@asddasasdful]

Personally I've always disliked how "pointy" tessellation always looked on terrain surfaces like rocks/pebbles etc. Hopefully they'll work on something better to replace tessellation.

[@TheLordOfWolves]

@@asddasasdful I agree they need to develop some workflows or something.

[@darkwing9572]

some effect need it.

[@harrysanders818]

How is tesselation dead? I thought it will shine particularly in conjunction with nanite, once tessalation with nanite is implemented...

[@attilafenyvesi5800]

One more question: Did anyone hear a whisper or something about a closer relationship of Nanite and skeletal meshes in the future?

[@starscream2092]

yes, they have a 2 hour stream on UE YT channel where they explain that currently they focus on engine and skeletal nanite and translucent nanite is RnD currently. Did not state how it is going but he hinted that it wont be ready until later 2022 after the engine UE5 launch in 2022

[@attilafenyvesi5800]

@@starscream2092 Thanks!

[@justquiro3112]

The one thing I wonder, it's the impact of UE5 on the consumers of the finished product

[@AgentQQ8]

Does C++ work? Are there proper tutorials for it? No? Then what has changed?

[@dave_x2.0]

Rayan tries to count all the nanites on this map 😬

[@chewface]

If only the games that implemented the Unreal engine were half as flashy as all the tech demos for the Unreal engine.

[@sooryaakilesh3439]

where is the compile button in the editor in UE 5 EA ??

[@crafterhacker]

really you only have to relearn the UI not the engine

[@Burnrate]

Not trying to be a jerk (hopefully constructive criticism), and I did enjoy the first half of the video, you do say "um" and "uh" almost constantly and I found it super jarring and distracting.

[@ThatRyanManning]

Welcome to having two kids, running a studio full time, teaching Unreal Engine classes, and trying to make KZbin videos...umms gonna happen! My brain is literally mush.

[@harrysanders818]

Not trying to be jerk, but being one.

[@harrysanders818]

I am sorry, my previous comment was rude. I like to apologize for this. I am learning and working on my internet comm skills myself, so I like to offer you an alternative way of putting it for you: "Dear Ryan, thank you for all your useful content and your time and work making these videos. I enjoyed most of it. The one thing that I think could be enhanced a little is the "uums" and "uhs" , which might help to tidy videos up by just doing a few more edits or something, because I felt distracted by them. I understand this might be a one take video, so pardon my criticism. Hope it helps." - Don't take free stuff for granted. Nothing wrong with criticism, but its best to learn how to formulate it with effort and appreciation for the creator. And in my case, for the commentor, sorry again.