The 0-10-2 Union Type

In this video, we take a look at one of the more obscure locomotives of American railroading - the 0-10-2!!

[@kristinabegail]

Union Pacific: Who are you!? Union: *You but smol*

[@briansmith8385]

Thanks for the video. The graphic you show of the wheel arraignment is a 0-8-2.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi Brian. Thanks for pointing that out. This is what I get for making content while fighting a head cold!!! Thanks for watching!!

[@nathanielmeade5731]

I was gonna post the same thing when I noticed. It's a great video regardless!

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi Nathaniel. Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching!!

[@Tom-Lahaye]

I know of 0-10-0 switchers being a very common type, also here in Europe. But a 0-10-2? Never seen one before this video, but cool to see this actually existed. Surely the needed steaming capacity for the incline and the related large firebox necessitated the trailing truck.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi Tom Lahaye. The 0-10-2 is a very obscure locomotive, a total of 11 operated in the U.S. and 2 of those were converted 2-10-2's. It was difficult finding information about them since so little is written. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and thank you for watching!!

[@davidhykes3194]

I happened upon the Greenville railroad park several years ago and spent a couple of hours looking over the locomotive and some other equipment on display. In addition to the rolling stock outside, they have some interesting stuff indoors. The most interesting item being the dispatcher's control console from the Bessemer and Lake Erie. The B&LE was the main-line connection between the ore boats on Lake Erie and the Union RR at North Bessemer. B&LE was also a US Steel property that was sold to Canadian National in the 1980's Among the rolling stock on display are a couple of the stubby hopper cars used for hauling iron ore. These would have been picked up by the 0-10-2 at the yard in North Bessemer and hauled through the tunnel and down the long grade past the Union RR shop and on to the Mon Valley works. The ore would go to blast furnaces at Carrie Furnace in Rankin - across the Monongehela river from Homestead, or to Edgar Thomson Works in Braddock or to the Duquesne works across the river and a couple of miles upstream. My connection with all this is that my dad worked at Carrie furnace for 35 years and he most certainly would have helped smelt iron from ore delivered in those cars and pulled by that engine. Also, our next-door neighbor was a mechanic in the Union Railroad shop and certainly did work on that locomotive. I once asked the neighbor (Mr. Tom Duncan) about his thoughts on diesels replacing steam. His reply: The railroad had lots of steam engines including some really big ones. Nobody in the repair shop was sad to see them go. Working on a steam locomotive was hard, dirty work - the principal tools being a cutting torch and a sledgehammer. All of his fingernails were split from hammer blows. Diesels were more civilized. Work on them used wrenches and electrical test equipment. No more smashed fingers.

[@MK-of7qw]

Interesting locos to be sure. A few period electric locomotives may have been able to the same job but it would have needed electrification.

[@JamesGordon-rz7nr]

That's great to hear about thanks for sharing

[@the_mississippian_railfan]

I grew up near carrie furnace right across the mon always cool to see our local equipment get some spot light

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi the_mississippian_railfan. Were you living in the Mon Valley while the Carrie Furnaces were still operating? I think they shut down in the mid 70's if my memory serves. Thanks for watching and I'll be sure to showcase more Pennsylvania power in future videos. Thanks for watching!!

[@the_mississippian_railfan]

No I lived there 2006 - 2022 the coke ovens at Hazlewood were still standing when I lived there tho. But I also do recall some parts of carrie near Munhall that were still standing till 2012 or so.@@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr

[@the_mississippian_railfan]

to give a idea look into the Mckeesport Connecting Railroad. Its a neat lil obscure thing to look into. ran for over 100 years serving only about a mile or two of track @@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr

[@jims6323]

That was excellent! I crawled around on this engine as much as possible in Greenville, and it is an impressive machine well worth seeing.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Thanks, Jim. And thank you for watching!!

[@poowg2657]

The C&NW engines were a revelation. Enjoyed it much, thanks!

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi poowg2657. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. The C&NW engines took me by surprise as well. Thanks for watching!!

[@user-gk8gg1zt7l]

Very nice!!!

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Thank you. Thanks for watching!!!

[@Yunorko271]

Union types are my third favorite locomotive type

[@roberthuron9160]

The NYC had a number of 0-10-0's for service in hump yards,and the C&O had several of them,for flat yard coal train sorting! All of those engines were high horsepower,and very efficient for the type of work done! Basically,ten coupled switchers were relatively uncommon,as they were used in heavy duty situations! Thank you for the forum! Thank you 😇 😊!

[@HenryGengler]

I mean hell the B&A had 2 0 8 8 0s for hump service

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi Robert. Thank you for the great feedback. It's a wonder why the 10 coupled switchers weren't more common. Definitely something worth looking into. Thanks for watching and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!!

[@peteengard9966]

Very well done. But not to be critical, the drawing you have is a 0-8-2 not what it said 0-10-2. Other than that. Very well done. The tender booster truck deserves a video all it's own. They were good for starting and long drags but once moving at speed they used steam in excess and was a drag on the locomotive.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi peteengard9966. I've been told by many viewers about the 0-8-2 goof. Thanks for pointing it out though. The more people that get on my case means I'll be less likely to mess up like that again. Anyway......Thank you for the compliment and thanks for watching!!

[@porthuronerieproductions9980]

On the topic of locomotives with rather unconventional wheel arrangements, will there ever be a video on the 0-8-2? As a quick overview, these locomotives were employed on the Illinois Central and Grand Trunk Western respectively, with the GTW examples receiving the nickname of "Queen Mary" due to their smooth riding quality compared to the clunky P-5 class of 0-8-0. They originally started life as class S-1f mikados before being rebuilt and were employed in branch line, heavy switching, and suburban service.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi porthuronerieproductions9980. That's a great idea for a future video. I'll be sure to look into it. Thanks for the suggestion and thanks for watching!!

[@beeble2003]

Did you notice that the switcher you show at the start has a booster unit on the tender? It was kind of ironic to be looking at what is basically an 0-6-4-4 while you were describing how most switchers have common wheel arrangements. 😀

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi beeble2003. You do have a point. The first 3 driven axles were equalized together, the last 2 and the trailer were equalized together as well, resulting in two independent suspension systems. Include the booster and we have 4 more driven wheels. However, under the Whyte Notation, this is a 10 coupled locomotive since all driven axles are connected by a common side rod. The Whyte Notation does not take into account a booster whether its in a tender truck or the locomotive trailing truck. I have no idea why.....Great observation, though!!! Thank you for the comment and thanks for watching!!!

[@mrcpu9999]

Very enjoyable. My dad is a big fan of steam, he'll love this.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi Jaye. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching and thank you for sharing with your Dad!!!

[@jst.hilaire354]

First layout looked like 0-8-2.

[@Mechann0257]

Somebody built the decapod the wrong way around

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi Mechann0257. If we take the 0-10-2, flip it end for end and convert it to run on oil, we'd have a cab-forward decapod.......I'm not sure what benefit that would be but it sure would be interesting!! Thanks for watching!!

[@dutchduke8864]

I always thought these were 2 different locomotives of the same type, the union and Duluth. I didn’t realize they were the same. Any idea why they removed the booster?

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi dutchduke8864. I can only speculate on why the boosters were removed. Maybe the DM&IR didn't like them due to their high steam consumption. I don't believe there are grades on the DM&IR that reach 2 1/2%, so maybe the road felt they weren't needed. As far as the actual reason, your guess is as good as mine. Information on the 0-10-2 in general is very limited. Great question though!! Thank you for watching.!!

[@CarolinaSpecial-No.1397]

And to this day I’m still trying to find out if American 2-6-4 tender engines exist.. there’s a lot of wheel arrangements that have been lost to time.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi QueenCityExpress1397. To my knowledge there aren't any surviving U.S. 2-6-4T locomotives. Only 5 or so U.S. railroads operated the type mostly in commuter service. I think they were a little more common in Europe. The 2-6-4T is another unusual wheel arrangement and worth it's own video. Thank you for your comment and thanks for watching!!

[@beeble2003]

@@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr 2-6-4T would be a tank locomotive; QueenCityExpress is asking about tender locomotives (i.e., 2-6-4).

[@physiocrat7143]

​@@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr There was a fleet of 2-6-4 express passenger locomotives in Austria built around 1910.

[@struck2soon]

Your wheel arrangement diagram shows a 0-8-2?

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi struck2soon. That was an oversight on my part. Thank for watching!!

[@ThomasWLalor]

Need to do a little editing --line drawing illustration of an 0-8-2 is used altho labeled 0-10-2.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi ThomasWLalor. You're right. Others have already pointed it out. Boneheaded mistake on my part!!! Thanks for watching!!!

[@ThomasWLalor]

​@@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr Decades ago, I tried to get a model. Brass. Handmade. United / Tenshodo (Japan). Several hundreds $$ then. Now MANY hundreds $$, used, and RARE. Model hobby is dying out I think.

[@K-Effect]

3:56 I don’t know much about switching but that seems like a whole bunch of Locomotive for the job?

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi Kevin. LOL!! I can certainly understand where your coming from. The 0-10-2 was used primarily on the Union Railroad mainline as a transfer locomotive - handling heavy drag freight to the steel mills in the Pittsburgh area. The 0-6-0 switchers probably continued to handle some of the switching duties. However, there were other railroads that used locomotives a large as the Union 0-10-2 or even larger for switching service. So, it wasn''t out of the ordinary. Thanks for watching!!

[@POTC_Oscarandfriens2.0]

is it just coincidence? cause the runtime of this video is the same number as one of the 0-10-2s on the DM&IR

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi POTC_Oscarandfriens2.0. I there is another video out there on the DM&IR 0-10-2's, I'm not aware of it. If my video has the same run time, then yes, it's definitely a coincidence. Thanks for watching!!

[@alanabyss9246]

Was there ever a 2-6-6 wheel arrangement on a locomotive before?

[@dannyhonn973]

There was a 2-6-4, I think named Adriatic type. Some 2-6-6 forney existed, usually used as suburban units

[@dtj9923]

Mason Bogie locomotives came in a 2-6-6t wheel arrangement. Most notably used on the Denver South Park and Pacific. They also came in several other configurations including 0-6-6t and 2-8-6t.

[@SouRwy4501Productions]

I find it weird that they chose to use an 0-10-2 instead of a 2-10-2, especially because the 2-10-2 wheel arrangement would’ve made more sense by a usability standpoint. The 2-10-2 wheel arrangement was able to work effectively in both forwards and reverse motion, whereas the 0-10-2 can only have stable running in reverse.

[@cdjhyoung]

It was explained in the video. The turn tables available dictated how long a wheel base the engines could have. No leading truck and a stubby tender was all they could fit on the turn tables.

[@americansteamlegacy-yh9dr]

Hi SouRwy4501Productions. All great points. The Union RR was faced with turntable length limitations so deleting the pilot truck shortened the wheelbase so it would fit. Since speed was not a pressing issue, the lack of a pilot truck really wouldn't have helped much. The trailers only right to exist was to support the large firebox. If these these things weren't an issue, then you're right, the 2-10-2 would have been a great choice. Thanks for your comment and thanks for watching!!

[@Mr._funny2006]

0:35 that's a 0-8-2

[@charamspaint]

He.

[@mumumaaaah]

Mr steam legacy I’m a steam fan and it’s called a oh ten two not zero ten two it proves that your not a steam fan at all