The #1 controversy when playing Bach! 😰 | Evan Shinners

Evan Shinners shares his insights on pedaling in Bach.
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[@benjaminclegg7109]

what's funny is that the prelude played with pedal down and "swimming in sound" is like an organ echoing in a big church.

[@jamestang96]

That's a good point. Not just thinking about the instrument of the time, but also considering the setting where the instrument is played at. Hence, viewing the resulting music as a product of both instrument mechanics (sound generation) and environmental setting (sound propagation, medium transformation).

[@Legomyegoorj]

Yeah, it’s funny to think about how much more music used to be fluid and modular, sometimes intended for one specific instrument and context but other times quite not. We classical musicians have gone away from that idea somewhat.

[@hyperactiveofficial8096]

That's an interesting interpretation, I suppose. In my opinion, though, too much pedal makes something sound muddled, dull, and "soupy." In my mind, it's like buying a pristine dessert and then drowning it in chocolate syrup (rather than drizzling). Clear sound really makes Bach, and even Mozart, Beethoven, and Chopin sing brilliantly.

[@lightningbolt4419]

@@hyperactiveofficial8096that’s why a reverb effect or half pedal should be more prevalent

[@marcofaustinelli7010]

That's not to say that JSB would have wished his camera music sound like in a church.

[@cadriver2570]

That pedal in Bach is controversial is insane. Since Bach had no piano, why not play on period instruments exclusively then? The modern piano is a beautiful invention, use all of its capabilities.

[@ethancollinsworth3927]

yeah and another thing, classical musicians have a problem with trying to control how others perform. “Oh he didn’t play it the way it was written it’s wrong”

[@gusemiester]

​@@ethancollinsworth3927trueee, the classical scene really needs a reform, people should be able to play things in their own unique way, its just more intersting that way

[@windowbar]

well it also sometimes sounds bad : (

[@handavid6421]

exactly; don't play on the piano, don't ruin good music by playing on such a ugly instrument.

[@Luguanyu307]

It's just like vibrato for violin baroque.

[@yiluis1316]

Don't be afraid of using the pedal. Just be mindful while using it and if it helps with your interpretation, go for it. The tools that are used to create music and the tastes always change, so I wouldn't mind using pedal in Bach pieces at all.

[@NSC006]

My favorite Klavier concert in D minor performance is the Polina Ossetinskaya's version, and on the climax of the first movement, she uses the pedal. It's a gorgeous moment

[@JanTGTX]

Recently played a 5-voiced fugue... No way to play all legato (keyboards and keys are wider now than at Bach's time), even sometimes when the theme comes in, where it's important. There, the pedal is indeed a crutch, but I just use it to sneakily connect two notes. 😂

[@LeVezz]

If you can't connect 2 notes in Bach, they are not meant to be connected. Bach knew exactly how to achieve perfect articulation in his pieces. If you have to do a big leap, it's not connected since it might just be the beginning of a new phrase.

[@luizf.composer]

​@@LeVezzAs it was discussed, Bach did not play in any modern piano, and those have significantly wider keys than the standard Klavier or the organs in Bach's time. He also had very big hands according to studies made of his skeleton, so even if he was alive today, he would be able to play at least a 12th on the piano, which most couldn't. He composed music thinking of it's intent, but is clear that he also worked inside of his much broader physical abilities.

[@Legomyegoorj]

Not only were keys narrower as a general rule on most keyboard instruments than on modern-day pianos, they had considerably shallower key-dip, meaning your fingers had less distance to push keys down to activate whatever mechanism it might be, organ, harpsichord, clavichord, or for that matter Silberman’s then-newfangled fortepianos.

[@pjbpiano]

Bach did not write any music for the modern piano. All these rules do not matter because you’re basically converting a five voiced fugue into a piano piece.

[@marylouise1992]

Not playing bach any time soon v.v

[@SmokiWonKenobi]

The way you talk about music is nice. It inspires me.

[@kyungsik]

I’m team pedal. Finger legato is an essential skill worth investing time practicing but using it in excess on a modern instrument is a bad idea and can easily lead to tension and injury.

[@pablobrowne3774]

I would agree with you in the first statement. However, I believe that attaining a good finger legato and control implies as well the ability to play it without tension, and it is a good tool particularly because you can define precisely what is to sound a legato and what is not.

[@kyungsik]

@@pablobrowne3774 I think you’re absolutely right that finger legato shouldn’t need to cause tension in order to be successful. And it’s certainly unmatched in how it can reliably connect a phrase. As instruments grow in size and keys get heavier, I think for Bach it’s best to use it as sparingly as pedal. Without both it’s inevitable you’ll have to use distorted hand positions to maintain it all. And if the hand flexibility to achieve them naturally isn’t already there, you’d have to reach and twist etc to make it all happen.

[@chagkruzart7695]

Technically, there is no legato on piano, like it plays on violin or clarinet

[@user-lk2jr9jd3e]

@@chagkruzart7695 Precisely! Legato is an illusion on the piano and harpsichord.

[@EyeLean5280]

These are so fun to watch and so helpful to me as a non-musician to understand the artistry behind the music.

[@ronl7131]

Sometimes the wall of sound serves Bach well.

[@apollocrux5670]

You are a great teacher im loving this content learning more and more and how one should approach each piece or moment in one. Its brilliant

[@mrcneale]

You can't take my crutch away!!!

[@Marco1281]

I use the pedal for what i call very moving pieces like Italian concerto mvt 2 or adagio BWV 564 or BWV 974 (Marcello concerto transcription) with preludes i try to avoid it most of the time, to improve my technic legato. But, as someone said in the comments, the pedal can create kind of harmonium or organ sound that could be interesting from time to time

[@elibear8530]

i think of the sustain as a simulation of a large cathedral room

[@quaver1239]

IF we feel an absolute necessity to use sustaining pedal (and I can’t understand why we would) in JSBach, then try pressing the pedal just one-third of the way down. That can be perfect, if and when we have an irresistible urge.

[@notyou6674]

i like minimal pedal for Bach best, his pieces really sound like they were meant to be without it.

[@joshcortezmusic8697]

I frequently use pedal while playing Bach, what’s important is that you don’t drown the clarity of the counterpoint and to not be indulgent with the use of pedal or use it to cover up bad technique, which is the case for playing music in general, it’s just more noticeable for Baroque music.

[@3dbadboy1]

My teacher insisted that I not use the sustain pedal with baroque music, lol.

[@MiScusi69]

Classical music is not a mere historical revival, but the expression of the composer's AND the performer's feelings.

[@DrizztDdn]

It's funny when he is looking at the camera to his rogjt when in fact the camera is behind him. LOL

[@solaufein3029]

The only problem I have is if the pianist uses it because it's easier. Or uses it too much. Otherwise, do what you want. I prefer no pedal usually, because I like the sound better.

[@manuelojeda9144]

What I tell my students that are studying Bach at the Music Institute is that in Bach's time the pedal didn't exist.❤. Its better not to.❤

[@TiagoCavalcanti-ji6hu]

you little monster! cheers

[@skippysounds541]

Nice Glenn Gould impression.

[@rhyhood9328]

Whether or not you do things the composer wouldnt have had people do depends on two things in my book: 1. Are you playing in order to sound historically accurate? If so, then dont do things the composer wouldnt have called for. If not, see #2. 2. Does it give you the sound youre looking for? It doesnt have to sound *good*, sometimes that isnt the point. It just needs to sound how you want it to.

[@schuiliz8754]

Without pedal it sounds much much better. 🎉

[@Silversorcerer]

I'm a HUGE fan of keyboard music written before the pedal was invented. I've just never been a fan of all that mush as most pianists hold 30+ tones, only to release them and immediately grab the next thirty. I prefer the crisp and precise sound of the Harpsichord, personally. Geez, guys! Lift your foot once in awhle!

[@ferminsalaberri]

Wait! Are you saying we should change pedal with harmony? Groundbreaking!

[@user-lk2jr9jd3e]

Right!

[@scottweaverphotovideo]

The modern piano is very capable of expressing Bach's keyboard works. Every performance today will be far removed from what he would have heard, and he might have liked this new, expansive sound very much. I believe it's pointless limit the capabilities of our modern piano. The opening of the Sinfonia of the C minor Partita greatly benefits from use of the sustaining pedal, and it's not a 'crutch', its an artistic tool.

[@theKobus]

I think we don't talk enough about how the RELEASE is much more distinct on a modern piano; a short note on a baroque instrument is only so short

[@WolfieNamira]

I use the sustain pedal and the bass sustain pedal in bach music, to mimic the reverb of a concert hall like a pipe organ usually does, or the double strings like a lute does. Bach didnt have a piano for most of his music, so dictating whether to use or not to use the pedal is useless, as long as the pedals are being used tastefully without drowning out all the voices.

[@danielfrancoise8881]

Cuando Bach hacia un composición lo hacía para las posibilidades de ese instrumento en esa época. POR eso cuando interpretó Bach pienso en el piano como un clavecin así que no uso pedal ESCEPTO los últimos acordes🤷🏻‍♂️

[@GingerIndiana]

I use pedal in Bach BUT in a very parcimonial way : only very slight touches to give a more "slured" sound, not in a romantic way of course which would be totally out of style.

[@Daniel-gv5xg]

In my University you get failed if you use your pedal in a Bach Piece

[@timbauer1618]

If you wanna be correct it wouldnt even make sense to play Bach on a piano 🙃 But I still I get your point. I just think many forget that our piano didnt exist in Bachs time

[@5imusic21]

Meanwhile me who never used a pedal in baroque or early classical pieces…

[@jtbasener8740]

I would agree with him on this. I believe legato playing is of highest priority and, if that can be improved by the pedal, then so be it. To get as authentic a sound as possible, one would simply best just forget playing Bach on a piano. When we play Bach on piano, authenticity is already a standard beyond our reach. Bueaty, however, is most certainly well within it.

[@chagkruzart7695]

Don't push the pedal to the ground, touch it smoothly just for slightly raising the dampers, it will be fine

[@talalala420]

Idk i'll just use the pedal from start to finish

[@artcurious807]

can you do an agent Smith impersonation and wear a similar suit while playing the Piano, i think it would be profound

[@trevsguitarstash4967]

This guy hears colors

[@Tizohip]

legaro?

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

Isn't the pedal always used as a tool rather than a crutch?......for those who understand music, at least?

[@h5mind373]

"When in doubt, ask the audience what they prefer, and do that."

[@nerokcubreva]

no

[@nickjgunning]

Bach didn't own a piano and didn't think they'd become popular. People have titled many of his works as such things as 'piano trios' or 'piano concertos' when they were titled as 'clavierkonzert'=keyboard concerto.

[@bigbeepian224]

so i play pc no 1 and if i try to put pedal it sound soooo bad

[@alcyonecrucis]

No pedal harpsichord only plz

[@YaBoiButterball]

Anyone who tells you for certain that you must or must not do something in music, is usually lying, lied-to, or selling something.

[@tackontitan]

I've found the pedal to be most useful in the fugues

[@quaver1239]

Why? To destroy perfect clarity?

[@tackontitan]

@quaver1239 it helps bring out the harmony better, I believe. You gotta use it correctly, or it'll sound like a muddled mess, just like with any other piece of music. Bach's music is meant to be enjoyed, not adhered to like scripture.

[@Polsini]

Agent Smith has found a new hobby

[@HatemSinokrot]

You know what was also not in the time of Bach? A modern piano with the twelve equal Temperament tuning. Just use a pedal, be creative instead of thinking of everything in a historical perspective. Making it sound good to you is all that matters.

[@iampracticingpiano]

None of us play on instruments that existed during Bach's time. Just as we no longer drive Model T Fords and enjoy the improvements of modern cars, we have no choice but to use modern pianos. It is silly not to use them to maximum musical effect. There is no such thing as "authentic" musical performance, only performances that are musically authentic.

[@Chris.4345]

If the music is the equivalent of a walk down the beach and you’d like to take an all-terrain vehicle down the coastline, it’s a valid choice but it’s no longer the same activity. The introduction of the pedal is not an “improvement”, it’s an artistic choice. To be dogmatic about performing the pieces how the composers would have is not ideal, but it’s also not irrational. The composers idea about how the piece should sound, which necessarily includes the choice of instrument and its features, is a valid interpretative basis.

[@hwoods01]

Because the music was written for the peculiarities of the harpsichord. The better analogy is using formula 1 cars on a horse race track. It doesnt work

[@jmccarty3]

You would be surprised at how many of us play on instruments that existed during Bach's time. We choose to use them in preference to the modern piano, because we prefer their sound, not because we claim to be "authentic." Your arrogance is amazing.

[@hape3862]

If only Debussy and Beethoven had had a harpsichord! They sure would have loved it. So, let's play Claire de Lune and the Moonlight Sonata on the harpsichord! Oh, and don't forget to make YT videos about how to best rape their music, of course!

[@lon3don]

Play it on a harpsichord.

[@h5mind373]

I think the argument of pedal or not is very similar to more-or-less-pedal use in any other classical piece. After all, memorisation of the sheet music is merely the starting point for the interpretation of a piece, not the end- and certainly neither scripture nor dogma.

[@man0sticks]

Incorrect use of the “elephant in the room” metaphor.

[@scarbo2229]

Overall true, but legato is not always desired.

[@tchaffman]

Bach was an extremely progressive and innovative thinker for his time, who's to say he wouldn't have loved some tasteful use of the pedal just because it wasn't around during his time? People think of Mozart as fancy old rich people music but the dude was a party boi who literally published a piece called "lick me in the a**" - we tend to think that we have a strong grap of these guys but we really don't.

[@ronvynr]

What about mozart

[@Piflaser]

First, it is to be played on the harpsichord.

[@PipeDreamerJacques]

Make Bach legato? Hrm. The organist and harpsichordist in me is leery of such a broad claim.

[@ivankaramasov]

If Bach composed for a modern day piano, he probably would have made use of the pedal. However, it is impossible to know how he would have used it, so I tend to prefer not using the pedal.

[@GPPiano]

If a composer didn’t want people to interpret their music in unique ways then they wouldn’t have published their music.

[@rlpat88]

If you’re going to play Bach on a piano, why not make use of the pedal? A pedal is part of a piano’s toolkit. Especially if you want to play “legato.” You’d still use a reed and mouthpiece if you were playing Bach on a saxophone or clarinet.

[@Itemtotem]

That doesn't translate. Those instruments have remained unchanged while keyboard instruments have improved greatly since his time. Harpsichord is not even touch sensitive: every note is produced at the same volume without ability to vary. Also those instruments had a bit more sustain than the pianoforte which has next to none. Music with texture, such as that of Chopin, Scriabin, Debussy, Ravel, Rachmaninov, needs the pedal. Bach's music is too complex, modulates too quickly and frequently, and each note of each voice NEEDS to sound and be heard clearly. The sustain pedal makes Bach muddy. Finally When I get to the performance hall and there is no pedal on the provided piano, surely my sigh is elevated to that of relief above the chagrin of others with less practiced fingers. Bach doesn't need the pedal, he has twelve fingers on each hand. Edit: if you need pedal you can't play Bach. Stretch your hands, spread your fingers, hold down everything tied and finger swap 3 times per key.

[@izzyjamm4]

I agree. The only way to truly play Bach’s keyboard music “the way he intended” is with a harpsichord. Using a piano is already breaking from his original vision. Why would a pedal on that instrument be a step too far, especially if used judiciously?

[@rlpat88]

@@Itemtotem I’m not even sure what you’re arguing. It sounds like you think one ought not use the pedal on the piano, and instead use Romantic organ fingering techniques (finger substitution and thumb legato, as the video implied) to create a legato on the piano without the pedal, which is hilarious to me. If you’re going to compromise on Bach by playing his music on an instrument other than what he composed for, why be so concerned with whether or not to use all the parts of that instrument. Did Bach have a sustain pedal? No-because he didn’t have A PIANO. And if you’re not concerned with articulation or fingering (which you’re not if you’re aiming to achieve a legato with fingering), who cares if you use a pedal to create a more sonorous sound?

[@jmccarty3]

@@Itemtotem Saxophones possibly, but clarinets certainly have changed, and keyboard instruments even more so, but I would not say they have improved. All change is not progress--the modern instruments are different, but not necessarily better for performing the music of the previous era. What players of modern instruments see as deficiencies, players of historic instruments see as virtues that contribute to a superior performance of older music.

[@valerieplushie1031]

I don't mind the very occasional use of the pedal, although it should be used intelligently not just in the immediate local context, but also within the context of a work as a whole. a pedaled measure can sound wildly out of place, even though on its own it works well. the much bigger problem is rubato, which i think is a much stricter no. only exception is the final cadence of a work.

[@hazelnutcase357]

Play what you like, how you like. For an exam follow your teacher's teachings.

[@gretareinarsson7461]

Of course use the pedal. We just use it so discreetly that it’s hardly noticeable.

[@alexvlasny9755]

Yes , INDEED, it’s a VERY, VERY big question-the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM! It’s been nagging me-when I eat, when I sleep, and even when I go to the bathroom. Thanks for answering it for me

[@mikeball6182]

Oi! No irony here, if you don't mind. Some of us are trying to sleep.

[@guavaguy4397]

I never use the pedal for Bach. Bach write it that way any other way and it is not Bach. It would be like playing Bach on an electric guitar and I don’t see anyone advocating for that now do we.

[@fine_gold]

I've found that my own opinions on how a piece should be played changes based on my mood. What really matters is you play it with all your heart in the moment Alot of these classical musicians would benefit from lsd, or at least a shot of alcohol. Would stop them intellectualizing...music

[@jannisopel]

The pedal makes the piano sound like an organ in a church. Bach would approve I'm sure, at least for his organ or general keyboard music.

[@user-lk2jr9jd3e]

It is dangerous to assume that Bach would love what we love. No matter how much he may have liked the modern piano, he would have composed for it altogether differently, assuming he would deign to compose for it at all. He didn't find his keyboards deficient, nor did he pine away for some sort of instrument which wouldn't exist as we know it until the mid-19th century. Pedal as you see fit, but justify its use by comparing it to the organ (NO comparison) by assuming "Bach would have loved it."

[@DrizztDdn]

NO PEDAL FOOL! lol

[@alexanderg5734]

Why shouldn't you? Bach was trying to make beautiful music, not technical soulless practice exercises as piano teachers use his work today. If using the pedal sounds good on a certain passage then Bach would've if he could've. If you care that much about authenticity then use a harpsichord.

[@jospenner9503]

Thank you for calling it a "sustained pedal."

[@pjbpiano]

So the simple answer is “Yes”? You could have saved us all the time and just said yes. A pedal can be used for any music played on the piano. How it is used is a matter of taste. If you want to play it like how Bach wrote it, go and play his music on a cembalo or harpsichord. Sometimes the elitist arguments are just laborious and boring.

[@fortoforto3865]

No pedal with Bach !

[@melvis24]

The pedal didn't exist in Bach's time, nor did the modern piano to which it is attached. If you omit the pedal because” it is not it was not used in Bach’s time”, you may omit the modern piano in general for Bach. If you decide to play Bach on a modern piano, why not using the pedal too if it fits your contemporary interpretation of Bach’s music.

[@Wade-ug5fv]

Still nobody gonna call this guy out for trying to act like Gould?

[@geroge2496]

the fact bach is being played on a piano is a controversy on itself so i dont really care about the use of the pedal

[@TerryUniGeezerPeterson]

After the very first time hearing Gould play The Goldberg Variations, I was forever averse to hearing any other pianists playing repeats. So redundant and unnecessary.

[@simonestara5534]

No pedal,never playing Bach

[@SlayPlenty]

But the example he gave just didn't sound good with pedal. I don't get it.

[@rickard.eriksson]

Divisi the notes ,. Youll see what fits and doesnt fit in an orchestra.

[@oscarellsworth1509]

This dude sounds like Zoolander

[@dkant4511]

Busoni would slap you if he was alive! But agreed mostly. Bach's textures are too busy for a heavy foot. Use pedal at your own discretion!

[@Eldiran1]

These type of piano didn't even exist in Bach time so if you wanted to have the real "sound" of his work , use harpichord . I'm team harpishord anyways .

[@peterschliemann4975]

Easy solution: Play Chopin instead :-)

[@wirrbel]

Well, Bach's favourite instrument was a clavichord and it sounded not at all like a piano (kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWnLmHZ5pKyrnac), the modern piano dampens very effectively and so this needs to be counterbalanced with the sustain pedal

[@gusemiester]

The way I see it is that neither was the modern piano around in bachs time so anything goes, interpret the pieces in your own way

[@nicolasrubio2276]

can you guys talk about piano technique in relation with gym, calisthenics or martial arts training?

[@zavilov]

Yes, it is in a way very similiar to martial arts, maximum effect with minimal energy expenditure to prevent injury and fatigue and that all boils down to proper biomechanics.

[@darrinsiberia]

Look up Taubman technique also Hungarian arm weight drop.

[@matttondr9282]

My take is this: you’re playing Bach on a _piano_, not a harpsichord.. Your performance is already, by definition, not authentic. Don’t feel ashamed for using the pedals. Just use them sparingly and with taste, not as a crutch, as the presenter points out.

[@bartekmechanik]

Just play Bach on organ😂

[@richardlehoux]

Mr Anderson, are you using the sustain pedal?

[@allenapplewhite]

Why yes, EXACTLY like Bach would do were he alive today and had access to 300 years of piano innovation! If you are some purist making some joke about pedaling Bach, then get off the piano and go buy a lifeless clavichord and play the dull version of Bach where all the voices sound exactly the same volume and it is impossible to bring inner voices out in any way shape or form. Bach would use the pedal today. Bach would LOVE the modern day piano, only a complete FOOL would think otherwise. The man put a stick in his mouth to hit a note on the organ...are you saying that Bach wouldnt have used everything at his disposal to make better music? You must not know Bach very well, then. You play Bach as if he is dead. WE will play Bach as if he is ALIVE.

[@pialmot2011]

Another question: What would be Bach's own decision if he witnessed all the effects that the contemporary piano pedals could make?? - Oh, I am pretty sure he would try many things w the pedals!🎵

[@notyou6674]

i get the sense from his music he would have composed them totally differently if he had the pedal, so i think if he were alive today i get the feeling he would compose entirely new pieces specifically for the pedal. this is all very subjective of course so any and all of this could be horribly wrong.

[@antoine2045]

The elephant in the room to me is the rubato playing in bach 😵 (you shouldn't do that)

[@user-lk2jr9jd3e]

Rubato was practised long before the invention of the piano.

[@Joey_Keys]

Tell that to any harpsichord player. No rubato equals a mechanical performance. I think this is why a lot of people think Bach is boring; they’ve only ever heard non-rubato versions which end up burying musical details under a relentless forward motion.

[@CatDaddySteve]

ELEPHANT IS no one in the last 300 years has "composed" amazing classical music even close to the so called masters

[@darrinsiberia]

This is the "elephant" I believe all modern conservatories have to account for, or will have to account for at some time. For now they are elitist gatekeeping machines that cut paychecks for a select few "educators" but largely are just stamps of approval validation centers for musicians who already possess the ability to perform. Can you imagine wanting to become a carpenter. And you go to a woodworking academy. And you get to an empty room and some anonymous people sitting behind a table. And they say "see that log? make us a chair now. Do it perfectly, in the manner of Horner. Begin." "But I'm here to learn how to become a chairmaker." "You're not one already? You haven't made chairs since you were three years old? Your parents arent chairmakers? NEXT." There is a huge elephant in the room regarding the way American conservatories are designed. Systematically they ensure a static environment where the same people go through doing the same thing year after year. And then they wonder why Classical music in America is dying? Its kind of absurd and humorous at the same time. But all the reverence and deification of some old Europeans who made music 200-300 years ago won't ultimately sustain anything. Brahms for example was discovered by Schumann when he simply knocked on his door and played piano for him. Can you imagine something like this happening now? I can imagine a young man knocking on the door of say a conductor or director in a big American city, having the police called on him and those police inadvertently killing him though! American classical music should be the last bastion for a more dignified way of being. A place that reminds us in this crazy 21st Century that we can aspire to higher ideals, that humans can get along and do better. Yet the keys to said place are greedily coveted by those I mentioned earlier. Who cling to their tenure and pensions and could care less for the state of the community as a whole and the culture as a living thing. Who can recreate magic from old scrolls the best, are not necessarily the best inclined to sustain a culture. And yet they are the only ones allowed into the club.

[@blipblip88]

Bach would have loved the sustain pedal on a harpsichord..I mean what the hell! He had major sustain with cathedral organs!!! LOL

[@xochj]

If Bach had pedals, he'd have used them. So, yep. Use it up!

[@waltzguy14151]

Nah.. don’t pedal Bach ever no need

[@polarexperts2125]

Could you or you must not?? If Bach did not use it, why we use it? It makes difference and give another music

[@josephwagner7277]

That's like saying we should perform Beethoven's symphonies with valve-less horns rather than modern ones with valves. It's laughable reading these sort of comments

[@hape3862]

@@allenapplewhite "a lifeless harpsichord or a soulless clavichord" - said the mindless piano player …

[@hape3862]

@@allenapplewhite "At least my brain is capable of forming an educated opinion…" - You mean like this one?: "a lifeless harpsichord or a soulless clavichord" 😂🤣😂

[@vierhundertzwanzig]

Dude's trying so hard to be Gould