The 11-Year Civilization Game that Went Out of Control | The Stuff of Legends

[@theescapist]

Reminder that if you enjoy The Stuff of Legends and want to support it directly, you can get new episodes a week early over on Patreon for $2/month!

[@rocko7711]

❤❤

[@rocko7711]

👍👍

[@mxvrdahegaouwu7577]

🎉🎉

[@rocko7711]

Wow

[@Ramschat]

He straight out created the world from 1984, including the 3 supernations spanning earth, continuously fighting among each other in never-ending stalemate, by design. I guess he really liked the book and wanted to live that life.

[@JohnSmith-bn5mi]

AND he created the thought police as a military force. That's basically what happens when you have a free-standing military in your cities unbound by roads.

[@louisduarte8763]

This is the regular reminder that 1984 (and most of George Orwell's works in general) are warnings against tyranny, not instruction manuals.

[@CrysJaL]

The idea of a power fantasy taken to a realistic extreme, simply being the dictator of a superpower. Potentially an interesting insight into the psychology of dictators like Stalin. Someone should really reach out and interview that guy, would be an interesting paper to have published.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Guess he never got to the part in the book where Ingsoc turns out to have been a historical footnote of only niche interest.

[@Gorm169]

I think interviewing Stalin might be a bit difficult nowadays.@@dangdudedan8756

[@dombro3520]

Ingsoc justifies itself to the proles as needing to control them, but I always wondered how it justified its existence to itself. Now I understand. It can't. That's even more terrifying.

[@NYKevin100]

O'Brien directly tells us this in the Ministry of Love. The Party wants power for its own sake, not to benefit the people of Oceania.

[@Freekymoho]

O'brien does actually "justify" it; it was only ever about power, it needs no reason and is the most openly selfish and evil system imaginable, by design. As previous autocracies failed because they let notions of causes or values taint their will to oppress

[@ryanmalady376]

If I recall correctly the answer was simply "power" everything they did was for power

[@F.Underhill]

"God is Power. We are the priests of power." O'Brien, 1984

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

That's one of the key points of the book - along with the epilogue text contextualising the book's contents as being a historic footnote of only moderate interest to linguistic historians. Ingsoc was a project of national power that sacrificed every single element of rulership except power itself as an expression of that power, in an attempt to make that power truly unassailable, and failed so completely that in short order the only people who remember it are those whose job it is to care about these things. A major point of the book is that states of absolute control may seem eternal and immortal from the perspective of those inside them, but are in reality very fragile and have to expend massive resources to project that image of invincibility.

[@hanniballahr94]

We've always been at war with the Vikings, not the Americans. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

[@joshroomwymbsy312]

We have always been at war with America, not the Vikings. Since the beginning of your life, since the beginning of the history. So says the Ministry of Truth.

[@BladedCreed]

As it always is… until it never was

[@myrojyn]

War is peace

[@carldooley9344]

At the end of the day the name of the enemy is irrelevant, so long as you recognize them as other.

[@AlistairFairweather]

MiniTrue approves this message

[@Steevo2004]

I would love for you to retell the legendary story of Fansy the Bard. Fansy played on everquest, on a pvp-no rules server. His exploits at trolling the evil faction are the stuff of legends, and it made the GM's enforce a rule against him, on the no rules server. Just google his story, it's still a great read, more then 20 years later!

[@avian68tb]

I looked it up. That story was hilarious.

[@DancingCabal]

Sand giant express is approaching the station. Please stay behind the level restriction line. Next stop pain and suffering

[@Patchnote2.0]

I went and read it; great story! I was a big fan of the carefree and naive character Fansy played in his responses to the mean things the evils said about him.

[@oppenz3723]

Considering The Escapist actually interviewed him I'd say this one actually made the perfect sense.

[@cyzaine]

Oh I forgot about Fansy! That would be a great 2 parter.

[@DanGamingFan2406]

I feel like Lycerius' experience would make a best sellimg novel, with the exact same prose as his reddit posts. I'm amazed that he could a turn Civilization 2 playthrough into such an epic, intricate dystopian narrative. Also, you have to admire the dedication of this man to let that save file play out for 11 entire years.

[@watershipup7101]

Agreed

[@waterbullstudios9195]

And then a film adaptation.

[@garnetbird7557]

That would be so cool and engaging.

[@danilooliveira6580]

the older I get, the easier it seems, I realize that I have save files of games from 5 or 6 years ago, most of them sadly don't work anymore because of compatibility issues. but I could imagine myself going back to a game now and then to keep progressing it. the problem is that for me the best part of games like this is the beginning, I always get bored when I get closer to the end and the game becomes progressively more repetitive and slow paced.

[@woaddragon]

The most interesting was he gave the SAV. File away so other could experience first...provide you had a computer that played Civ2

[@treadmillgaming5963]

If I remember correctly some people took his files and could actually have fixed all the nuclear waste problems in about 140 years

[@bobsspike6100]

Peace is cringe bro.

[@woaddragon]

From what I recall, not only was the person able to do that but was able to near permanently peace as well, after about another 1000 years

[@MrProthall]

That basically sounds like Warhammer 40k, if it took place on one planet.. disturbing

[@SolarArmadillo]

This very well could be a story that takes place in the 40k universe. A planet left to fend for itself after being lost due to a clerical error.

[@Tiberium10332]

​@@SolarArmadillo Sounds like Krieg. A world devastated by nuclear war kindled by a civil war over independence from the Empire of Men.. Forgotten by the wider Empire for nearly 500 years or so. Once they tried to establish contact again. Only a single transport meet the ambassadors in orbit. Reporting ready for duty again. They were surprised by the huge number of soldiers a now toxic world like Krieg could provide and asked about the civilian population. The answer was simple. "There are no civilian on Krieg. Only Soldiers."

[@tarot3078]

It’s more like 1984

[@ryanbarham8464]

So Warhammer then

[@JayzealiaBanks]

Well at least this story is written better than warhammer the end times

[@SolaScientia]

As someone who never got into the Civilization games, this is extremely fascinating to me. Also, I sent myself into a coughing fit from laughing at the Cruise missiles pun.

[@CODDE117]

Wow, just got it, thanks

[@idnyftw]

I always manage to drive my enemies out to a few tiny far off islands and keep them blockaded there with carriers while the rest the world glistened under a continents spanning "democratic" empire with 90% of taxes directed towards "entertainment" (civ2 equivalent to culture in later games, with a bit of welfare thrown in) each city had its own taxmen and intellectuals, if you're not happy citizen, you're an elvis impersonator, there's nothing left to build, so citizens basically just exist to work tiles and pay taxes (9/10 of it just flips back to them anyway, causing them to celebrate my eternal rule forhundreds of years because everyone's just too darn happy) and THEN overpopulation set in, then too much production gave way to waste and pollution, and my army of engineers (my empire had as many of them as I have military units, basically a whole second army but for public works) had to scramble either terraforming overly productive land or clearing out pollution (each polluted tile contributes to global warming, which eventually sinks coastal cities and turns the rest of the world into crappy swamp) but I'd rather not genocide my few remaining enemies struggling to make ends meet in a bunch of these crappy resourceless islands because that'll prematurely end my game... welp, better go for a spaceship victory then

[@goldenhorde6944]

I'm not a civ player either but I've seen some similar scenarios in Stellaris, it has some grand strategy elements that can keep it from spiraling too far out of control but 4X never changes.

[@Hifuutorian]

What was the pun?

[@SolaScientia]

@@Hifuutorian Missiles with Tom Cruise's face on them. Hence, Cruise missiles.

[@smileytrashbag6713]

You know Frost is an excellent storyteller when he can jump from journalistic analysis of Factorio, to daring heroics and camaraderie of a legendary Everquest raid, to a 1984-meets-Twilight-Zone Civilization game all in the same series

[@ameryaser3987]

War. What is it good for. Absolute entertainment.

[@mitchbandes2245]

Say it again! Unh!

[@AerialsAboveCreations]

This would be a killer book series or show from the view of a never dying leader.

[@737215]

A little like Asimov's Foundation series ... but just different enough. Someone should do it.

[@737215]

A little like Asimov's Foundation series ... but just different enough. Someone should do it.

[@PokeBattlerJaze]

Isn’t that Warhammer 40k?

[@TheBloodedCat]

​@@PokeBattlerJazecame here to agree that it did sound like the emperor but with a diary

[@danilooliveira6580]

that is basically 1984, just from a top down point of view.

[@samadams8533]

You guys should do one on the Falador Massacre from Runescape, the old "Bank your Items" crisis became a legend among the servers

[@clencheastwood1571]

Good news....

[@geroni211]

Man wants to play a fun game of Civ 2 and ends up recreating the world of 1984. Edit: I wrote this in the first three minutes of the videos, but this is actually where the video went, hilarious.

[@cogline9]

This world he's built and discussing his plans/actions within it make me think that this comes off like some of the Emperor of Mankind's earlier works.

[@tomservodoctor42]

That's funny, I was just thinking about this story a few days ago. I couldn't find any recent articles, and the subreddit communities have been pretty inactive for years. Good to know someone else remembers too!

[@rubz1390]

Do I understand correctly- you mean the civ2 subreddit is inactive?

[@tomservodoctor42]

@@rubz1390 No, I mean that there was more than one subreddit dedicated to this world specifically. How to fix it, worldbuilding, that sort of stuff.

[@TheSkullivan12]

The subject matter combined with the cadence of the narration made this feel like a lost episode of The Twilight Zone. Which is excellent.

[@Shreepsy]

I was trying to place what it reminded me of, and I think you nailed it.

[@SideshowCris]

I will never forget those glorious reddit days trying to help Lycerius figure out an end to that war. And the art and the fan fiction that grew out of it…simply a legendary time to be on the internet having nostalgia for Civ 2

[@jonathangibson9482]

I really like the Twilight Zone-esque ending monologue. Very well done.

[@aaronantwine6782]

This series is complete gold. Please continue the storytelling as many times and as often as possible. Video games have a culture that needs to be told, shared, and discussed.

[@paulie-g]

"In the future, there is only war." Civilisation transitions smoothly into Warhammer 40k

[@derptomistic]

"Please sire, we haven't eaten in (checks watch) 5284 years." "Melt that watch down for scrap metal and use it to build more tanks. Otherwise, penal battalion!" "Sire, this IS the penal battalion." "DOUBLE PENAL BATTALION"

[@Captainflake99]

He must have had this end goal the whole. Once you have researched everything and all the land is settled, the only thing left it’s complete war. It’s the only way you stay engaged, otherwise you would eventually build everything available in your city list. Don’t get me wrong it’s impressive, that is determination to take it that far

[@metazoxan2]

Yeah I mean ... it's not like the game (especially Civ 2) has complex characters or detailed culture. If you're not building up knowledge or culture you're waging war. it's litterally all the game had in it. There is no way you keep a game going for this long without just seeing how the war fronts move around over time. I mean it's kind of facinating how it plays out kinda similar to an old apocalypstic war novel ... but it also feel a bit ... disingenuous with how this guy goes from "help I want to end the war" to "welp back to the old eternal war that I willingly control" in apparently a year and tries to play it off like he's a meriful leader that fell to the corruption of power. Sounds like he just got bored of letting it play out with ZERO player input and decided he wanted to manipulate the cycle and was just too invested in this one save file to let it rest.

[@Syaniiti]

Having a "gorilla" appear when guerilla was mentioned 10/10 video editing.

[@alexisauld7781]

I always imagine a monkey awkwardly trying to sneak about whenever people mispronounce guerrilla. XD

[@cybercrasherstv]

This feels like the type of thing Jon Bois would make an episode of pretty good on

[@cybercrasherstv]

@@SimuLord honestly, the dude who made that potion seller video and Jon Bois is my dream collab. I'm pretty sure both of them would drown the world in tears

[@CaptainSeasick]

It's kinda funny to me how I was listening to Sabaton's "A Lifetime of War" literally just minutes before watching this.

[@NoName-xv5nn]

I’m enjoying these new series, can’t wait to see what new ones will come out next!

[@seanw1783]

I too have been locked in a seemingly endless struggle... the war of terrorists versus counter terrorists has raged for decades and may never be resolved in Counter Strike. Do our benefactors manufacturing this stalemate simply to keep the attention of the masses diverted? I will never know, as im too busy frantically cycling between sites A and B

[@737215]

Digging this series so much best escapist thing since ZP (which is still killing it btw)

[@LuminousLuna01]

You sound like a mix between Rod Serling and Ron Perlman. Great narration and interesting story.

[@gemmareid7929]

I knew just from the title what this story was, you told it brilliantly, this series is really finding itself and I look forward to more.

[@cloverandanais]

In the grim darkness of 4200ad, there is only war. 🍀

[@Oscar_Myk]

My favourite Civ 2 story is how I took over DC and New York as Spain on Deity in the WW2 scenario. The Allies got pretty pissed about that, and then the Axis powers attacked as well. But kept them till the end of that scenario, coastal cities were OP.

[@Mr_Muda_Himself]

You know this might actually make a good book or series, an undying king tired of fighting goes looking for away to end an eternal war only to realize this war was the only thing keeping his world in existence from an fickle and easily bored god, resigning himself to keep it going in perpetuity forever.

[@JD-qq8fz]

3:45 "...So you want a granary so you can eat? Sorry, I have to build another tank instead. Maybe next time." LOL yeah this dynamic never really changes for our species does it?

[@mr.valentine668]

Frost, I dig this show, dude. Keep it up!

[@bsmarsch]

Damn, this IS dark AF.

[@TheFeintOfHearts]

This is such a great series. The concept, the stories, the cadence of your voice, everything fits together. Always look forward to catching the next one

[@ironwolf5802]

Each story leads to a cop call is what I get out of the intro. This story sounds like it could be a really good series that has a peace seeking hero that slowly becomes evil and make you wonder when the fall started.

[@samueltrusik3251]

I remember hearing about this game a while ago. It truly is a stuff of legends.

[@TocloseamI]

"Cruise missles" what a gag, great story, great narration and film accompanying

[@SImrobert2001]

What really makes me laugh is that it was actually rather easy for him to win his game at any point in that 10 years. He just had to know how the game worked.

[@Tuss36]

I mean it took us this long to rediscover Roman concrete. Something that might seem obvious isn't so for everyone.

[@StarHeaven07]

I think we ended up getting the explanation for this; he didn't really want the game to end. Before he learned all he did, it was subtle, maybe even subconscious, but you can see it in the first post when he talks about using engineers to clean things up when the Vikings stopped being shitheads. For weal or woe... he never pictured a scenario where the game ended in the first place. Maybe it took seeing his path to victory to make him aware it wasn't a path he wanted to follow.

[@SImrobert2001]

@@Tuss36 We didn't "Rediscover" roman concrete. We just figured out how it was made by the Romans. We have invented stuff that is FAR beyond it in strength. The romans jut didn't have multi ton vehicles moving 60 mph on theirs.

[@SImrobert2001]

@@StarHeaven07 I honestly think that part was roleplaying.

[@StarHeaven07]

@@SImrobert2001 I mean, probably. It's fun to play along in turn, though.

[@elizataylor1726]

Ok, usually I only tune in for ZP, but this format is a winner in my opinion. Please don't stop making them!

[@potterinhe11]

He did the full capitalist to Fascist transition.

[@punkyroo]

Plot-twist: Lycerius was a time-traveler trying to, covertly, warn us all of our future.

[@Lastkoss]

Great video Frost as we see gamer basically become the patriots MGS.

[@ammarabbasi137]

3:21 ah yes the gorilla uprisings

[@bbrake]

Man, this left me wanting more. It's been another 10 years since that post. You couldn't reach out to Lycerius and see if anything else interesting happened, or at least find out how long it took for his world to just run out of resources and die out?

[@martinbunye5202]

This would be a good addition to the channel. Can’t wait for EVE online stories.

[@theescapist]

Check the previous episode!

[@FatCactusMan]

I love this series. It's relaxing to be reminded of the creativity in "being busy" that games can spark:] Thanks a lot for another episode

[@stratuvarious8547]

Ah, Civilization II, still the best one. For me, it was Tuesday.

[@psyxypher3881]

I feel there's something poetic about him reaching the 41st Century with his forever war...

[@raideurng2508]

In the grim darkness of the 41st century, there is only war.

[@PathForger_]

One cannot help but see parallels in that which is described. The human condition can indeed appear wretched at times. Well-narrated/illustrated.

[@michaelwallace9461]

I remember reading on the Civ Fanatics forums many years ago, utterly fascinating. I still dip into Civ2 every so often, the stories I've had in that game over the decades are true blendings of narrative and gameplay that not even From Software can touch

[@TheHunterWulf]

Reminds me of le Carré's "The Russia House" where a Russian subversive writer is trying to publish a work asserting 'the Soviet knight is dead in his armor' (essentially the Soviet military is an empty shell that only appears dangerous but can offer no serious threat to the West) but the Soviet, British, and American militaries and intelligence organizations all want to bury his work because they all need the threat of implementing world war to justify their budgets and operations.

[@lordcrispen]

A few years ago, narrated Reddit threads started popping up in videos over minecraft platforming footage. Those are lame and feel like stealing/easy content and I absolutely hate them. This is NOT that. Amazing video and I love it. Please keep this series going.

[@Taiyama2]

Damn, this might actually be something on the Escapist worth watching besides Zero Punctuation! Good job, guys.

[@theescapist]

Missing out on Adventure is Nigh, Cold Take, Design Delve, In the Frame and more.

[@curtisbailey4398]

Keep this series coming. These are the the peak highs and lows of having that are always fascinating.

[@the-engneer]

This story actually inspired me to play a never ending campaign on one of the newer civ games. So far I have a year old campaign

[@Rhakete]

It's like the origin story of a villain in a sci-fi plot. He ends up winning the war but then gets so bored by the world that he travels back in time to purposefully keep the war going. This is why sandbox games are amazing!

[@theemissary1313]

1984 was only a dystopian horror for anyone that wasn't big brother. For him it was a delightful, Machiavellian fairy tale.

[@JPR3D]

I am loving this series. Topic, narration, runtime, depth, A+ .

[@carlosmiguelteixeiraott3643]

I remember this one...and I kind of hate it, not because of any inherent fault with it, the story behind it is amazing. I hate it because it turned me off dystopias of all kinds and taught me the meaning behind "Dystopia is Hard".

[@LordRefa]

War... War never changes

[@porter5224]

After you covered the Eve heist and the Wow Plague I thought you'd have to start going into overly niche stories nobody'd ever heard of, but no you're really rolling up all the greatest stories in gaming history. Great video, can't wait for more!

[@misterb3037]

I swear in one of the civ games if you launch to many nukes the world simply ends with an animation of the earth shattering

[@ziltron]

Next War mod of Civ 4

[@meapickle]

There's so many storys like these from table top games and video games, that if u competently filled in the gaps, smoothed the edges and refined it so it doesn't look like an obvious summary but an actual fleshed out story and world. You'd get a possible best seller

[@jaywerner8415]

That story truly is the stuff of legends. 11 years of playing the same game, asked for help to bring an end to war without end only to be like "Naw, lets keep going". Very Interesting Philoihpy.

[@siguanabo69]

Frost could read a phonebook and I'd still find it captivating af

[@josepheastham9717]

Nuts. I didn't know the story continued for an 11th year. Thanks frost.

[@gobbotits1686]

My longest game lasted roughly 3 weeks. Half of that was because my two allies decided to turn on me after there were no more enemies to conquer.

[@louisduarte8763]

I'm just perplexed at the mechanics of it all. Did he make an significant "progress" in the game, save it, exit, turn off the computer, and do what he needed in the real world before returning to the game, or did he leave his PC running Civ II non-stop for 10-years? Another crazy story well told here, with some hilarious visuals (Tom Cruise missiles, an actual wave with guns sticking out of it). Interesting 1984 comes up, but you didn't use clips from that movie, but METROPOLIS. I remember watching that movie, and clips of it used by someone to make a music video with a RAMMSTEIN song, and now I remember a TVTrope that movie used: Staged Populist Uprising.

[@HopeisAnger]

A rulers reward for absolute victory, is obsolescence. Fortunately, in the real world, there is always another war.

[@tauIrrydah]

Gods this reminds me of my Stardrive games where I realised I could only win through Ascension tech, I starved BILLIONS of my own citizens to death in the rush to get to the game winning tech before any of the other species in the galaxy. The few million survivors ascended.

[@RedSpade37]

I would love to hear you recount the tales of Lord British's Speech or the Falador Massacre. Excellent work!

[@KingOhmni]

Well gee, that”s a helluva narrator voice. I want this guy as a voice actor in vidya games!

[@olorin7611]

In the grim darkness of the far future, THERE IS ONLY WAR

[@soundjester]

to whoever is doing the video editing for this: bravo!

[@soundjester]

Frost, you're doing great too, as per usual

[@Rhyno012345]

Lycerius: The Boy Who Civ’ed

[@alexandercrumulent271]

The fact this guy sounds like he should be introducing Twilight Zone episodes really sells this story.

[@dariustiapula]

Imagine Vulcans encountering this humanity?. Anthropologists would be thrilled and so too probably the Klingons.

[@SolidBobert]

Ah yes, he was made to face the scariest question of all: "Now what?"

[@snowboundwanderer]

It'd be fun to hear you tell the story of Tom Clancy: EndWar. Ubisoft tried to set up an online WWIII campaign for a three-way war between the US, Europe, and Russia, but as a result of design decisions and player faction choices and performance about a month after launch nearly 60% of the players couldn't play multiplayer, and they had to change victory conditions to end the "FirstWar" and reset everything, but by then the player count had been crippled.

[@thedudewhoeatspianos]

At what point does dedication to a game become pathological?

[@gogauze]

When it starts distressing, or otherwise negatively impacting, you and/or your relationships.

[@bsmarsch]

@@gogauze So, immediately?

[@theescapist]

@@gogauze "Shivers in FIFA"

[@PrebleStreetRecords]

I bought Civ II when it first came out and still regularly play it. It’s addictive in a frightening way.

[@Uthardar]

In the Grim dark future there is only war.

[@thekinginyellow1744]

Poor Lycerius. He didn't understand that the only possible goal is to crush your enemies. And when they are ground underfoot, destroy the world and start again!

[@constipatedwonka8061]

You gotta make more of these, this is great!

[@ronniabati]

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war

[@HonkeyKongLive]

God I love this series.

[@Gotticus]

Guy took "just one more turn" to another level.

[@omega2279]

For a moment I thought you were talking about Magnasanti, but then I remembered it was Sim City 3000, not Civ. Fascinating stuff. Just as much a dystopia, but of an entirely different kind.

[@RogerValor]

reminds me of one of my early civ 1 games as a kid. i dominated the whole globe, except on one island, there were a few aztec cities. i could not kill them or the game would be over. but i nuked them whenever i felt they were out of line, just to send my own settlers to clean up the mess. Finally global peace was achieved, except of course, with the Aztects living in fear, surrounded by submarines and carriers, ready to decimate them if they dared to build a ship.

[@clarkmichaels822]

I wish I could play a game as a narrative as this guy could.

[@peteriskrisjanis6004]

Yeah, Civilization is really strange like that. Power fantasy that can go super dark and challenging notions what civilization is or is it even worth it.

[@FrankyBabes]

"Viking cruise missiles". Sensational.

[@snickle1980]

Hidden Gem of a channel. Easy sub.

[@snickle1980]

also...that massive gorilla warfare. 😂

[@raideurng2508]

In the grim darkness of the far future, there really is only war.

[@Trench___]

A great summary. You should do a video about that guy who built those insane cities with Latin names in Sim City 2000 - it had the same unholy feel

[@garsedj]

Reminds me of my xcom long war playthrough Countries would abandon the xcom project because I wasn't able to save them, and I would play the special mission to liberate them later. One all the countries saved, the last mission was just kinda there, but I didn't wanted the game to end. So i would just lose countries and get them back, letting the civilians die and get occupied by aliens, before saving them and doing it all over.

[@joshc1981]

Feel like scholar's and researchers could use this story to learn about how globalisation and governments/nations would function in the future.