The 1766 Charleville Musket The first weapon of the U.S Army Infantry

[@Real11BangBang]

Disclaimer, I have learned a lot about French muskets since this video was made. So anything mentioned in here about history of the French muskets should be taken with a grain of salt because I get a lot wrong in this video

[@johnndavis7647]

A study of French muskets beginning at the 1717 shows that it slowly evolved in a series of tiny improvements into the 1777. The 1717 had a pinned barrel and a wooden ramrod. The 1728 had barrel bands and a metal ramrod. The 1766 often had sling swivels mounted on the side with only the front barrel band held on with a spring retainer. The bayonette lug served as a front sight. The 1777 in its final form had front and rear retainer springs and a front sight was cast into the front barrel band as well as a groove in the breech-plug for a rear sight. What I am trying to say is that there were small improvements over time. Some early muskets will incorporate a new improvement before it was made official in the next model. I suspect that armorers sometimes put newer parts on older guns as needed to put a musket back in service. Thanks for the video

[@johnndavis7647]

These muskets were popular up in Canada as well as in the state's. The early models were used in the French and Indian War and some were still around in the Revolutionary War as well. As new models came out the older models were surplused into the Indian trade and civilian market. Most had hard use and didn't survive. I have a repro 1728 model that I am thinking about cutting the barrel and moving the front band back to the second band location. That would make it much handier for a woods running gun. Native Americans and trappers frequently had their muskets cut down to more manageable lenghts.

[@oldschoolcfi3833]

The whole paranoia of priming the pan first is unnecessary. There are virtually no records of troops injured by loading accidents from hammer falls. The structure of the sear in a flintlock is robust, to say the least. Even accepting a higher risk tolerance in the 18th century, no military would have tolerated a system that produced causalities and essentially reduced combat effect through accidental discharge in either training or combat. We're simply too used to modern firearms with their more complex mechanisms and much more sensitive designs, and an over abundance of lawyers.

[@Real11BangBang]

I know this comment is over 2 years old but I can't state how correct you are. I was pretty new to black powder flintlocks at this time but now I've put quite literally thousands of rounds downrange with paper cartridges priming first and have not had a single incident. I'm about to do a video on this very subject and how safe it actually is to prime before loading. I might have to give your comment a shout out.

[@johncatdaddy8895]

I watched a fire demo clip from Ft George where the soldier does a regulation reload. I think it may be important to rest the butt against the ground, tilting the weapon with the trigger guard up and pan and frizzen down. This would ensure that if the hammer fell, the powder would fall out of the pan and likely not ignite any powder. Most vids I see show the weapon being held up vertical during powder charging. How far can a flintlock be tilted to cause a miss fire - surely you couldn't hold one upside down and get it to fire(?). I would be more concerned with a piece of that paper still smoldering in the barrel and then pouring down the powder and raming the ball on it. They even wet swabbed cannon barrels to extinguish any internal embers.... I think this would make an excellent experiment, btw.

[@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods]

I think this is my favorite video thus far

[@Real11BangBang]

Yeah its definitely one of my favorites

[@reddevilparatrooper]

You know why the sky is blue? Because God loves the INFANTRY!! 11 Bravo myself indeed... From the old school Ft. Benning Harmony Church Infantry School...

[@floridansroman821]

The French help us out a lot during the revolution. nice video

[@Real11BangBang]

Thanks Yes they did. They were at the point that the enemy of their enemy was their friend.

[@Riando4590]

Some of us never forgot our friends too. "Every man has two country, his own and France " Thomas Jefferson

[@mshapiro64]

Thanks for posting. I highly recommend eye and ear protection. Take care.

[@Real11BangBang]

Thanks for the concern I'm going for the historical experience here and glasses kind of take away from that. (I may have to make a pair of mock Ben Franklin bi-focals) As for hearing protection I already have hearing loss from my last deployment (I unfortunately didn't have my ear pro in before our 120mm mortars started firing) so I don't have much hearing left to lose. Thanks for watching and have a good day.

[@davidward3848]

The Kentucky long rifle, the muzzle loader used by most of the militia, was a good small arm.

[@Real11BangBang]

Yes it was

[@OutnBacker]

@@krockpotbroccoli65 I tend to agree with this. The "long rifle" was a hunting arm and was the tool of frontiersmen and woodsmen who lived on the fringes and often supplied meat to people in the towns. They were not that plentiful and neither were their guns. There were rifle companies of several to dozens of men, but not many and they weren't present at all battles. Most game, in fact, was taken with smooth bores, and most militia was armed with those same smoothbores or, armory -supplied Brown Bess muskets of a similar pattern that was used by the British Army. That is why the brits were trying to seize all weapons stored in local militia armories. There is also a lot of myth surrounding the accuracy and effectiveness of the long rifle. While they were much more accurate than any smoothbore at all ranges, they did not have a large effect on the outcome of any major battle, and rifle men were very vulnerable to being bayoneted by experienced and angry British soldiers, who could close the distance before most rifles could be re-loaded. They also had no bayonet and were not sturdy enough to be used for a war club more than a few times. The Hessian and British had no mercy on riflemen, whom they considered to be cowards.

[@ronrobertson59]

The manual of arms says prime the pan first so as not to dump all the powder down the barrel and not have a primed pan.

[@Real11BangBang]

This is an Old video when I was just dipping my toes in the flintlock world back before I knew what I was talking about. I have improved... not by much but I have been practicing the various drills here lately

[@ronrobertson59]

@@Real11BangBang you're doing in right people making comments about it are wrong. Prime last for cap lock prime first for flintlocks.

[@DARIVSARCHITECTVS]

I always wnated a 1766 Charleville, but came across a great deal for a used but damaged Brown Bess, which I repaired in the shop. The Charleville is more elegant than the long land Bess, which is a BEAST.

[@Real11BangBang]

you got the power house

[@williamkoppos7039]

They are Both pretty beastly. Hand cannons. Can't imaging lugging one of those things from West Point to Yorktown

[@rc6147]

Pedersoli makes a better Charleville but for the price these Indian models aren't bad. The lock assembly is a little rough around the edges but it works. Try to get the trigger at about 4lbs. Travers sells nice pin gauges to size the bore properly. The metal on these Indian Charley's are like chrome. Heritage arms is a good company and drilling the touch hole isn't that much of a task. Great video...and music!

[@Real11BangBang]

Thanks

[@carlculver819]

How interesting 🤠 you wouldn't happen be over in the area of Barber County 🙆‍♂️ west of Medicine Lodge KS, would you be 🙆‍♂️ this is the first time I've seen any of your videos and it's awesome 🙆‍♂️ I recognize the background scenery, 🤔 looks like the west of Medicine Lodge area, 😊 I lived and worked for the city of Medicine Lodge for 18 years in the 90's

[@Real11BangBang]

yup you found us

[@martyshannon7542]

Yep. I noticed the music when it changed.

[@Real11BangBang]

Sorry I couldn't help myself I'm a pretty big townsends fan

[@TheDarkchoclate]

I was torn between the Brown Bess and Charleville. Seeing the front sight groove for a better sight picture. Charleville is my next buy.

[@Real11BangBang]

That is an excellent choice

[@douglaslorin739]

@@Real11BangBang How would you compare this musket to the version offered by Pedersoli?

[@neffofrog]

Happy you were smart enough to wear hearing and eye protection!

[@Real11BangBang]

Why thanks! 👍

[@Squib1911]

Good video. I think I'll watch: The 1795 Springfield Musket from Military Heritage Review + A small history lesson. next.

[@baystateplugflipper7061]

Great shootin’!!!!! I love shooting my smoothbores, but mine are percussion conversions of Asa Waters 1816’s

[@tumbleweed6658]

Really good video that musket is beautiful. I’ve never seen the tow ball wrapper method before very neat trick. Keep your powder dry!

[@Real11BangBang]

Thank you sir I've got to say this musket is rapidly becoming one my favorite firearms I own. I've heard there is a non flammable version of tow and I think next spring I may try planting some jute and making my own. Thank you for watching

[@keithhagler502]

@@Real11BangBang Try wasp or hornet nest. They used it as well in the day. It's amazingly inflammable. I've even found it at the bottom of huge piles of brush and limbs I have burned, still intact and only blackened. Makes a good wad for under the ball. I find them around the house during summer when the red wasps invade. I try not to use the ones I have sprayed with wasp killer though because not sure how the spray would effect the inflammable qualities.

[@Real11BangBang]

@@keithhagler502 You know I'm doing a turkey hunt with the Charleville next month and I'm going to be testing different loading techniques and it just so happens I know where an abandoned paper hornets nest is. I'm going to give this a try.

[@Real11BangBang]

@@keithhagler502 tested out the wasp nest technique. Works like a charm. Thanks for the tip

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Love BP(black powder)! Started with BP at age 12 in 72 building an 1858! Just got mine and drilling in a vent liner "maybe" today! Mine came in at 69 Caliber measured? What sized round ball are You liking for accuracy? My companion pistol is a smaller Caliber (65 measured)?

[@Real11BangBang]

I use a track of the wolf .648 ball with 155 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 FG in my paper cartridges. With this historical loading I can take 150 Meter head shots on a torso target as seen in my Charleville accuracy test video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6vKf2OdiaaSY6s Thanks for watching and keep your Powder Dry.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

@@Real11BangBang I got two sizes from them, I gotta go LOOK!

[@SteveAubrey1762]

If you had to choose between the fusil de chasse & the Charlevilles, which would it be?

[@Real11BangBang]

personally for me the Charleville larger caliber and barrel bands make it easy to clean and a bayonet lug is a nice thing to have

[@rc6147]

Ha. I hear " a country dance" off Townshend and son's youtube channel 👍🏻

[@Real11BangBang]

Yep I'm a pretty big fan.... More nutmeg

[@gunmangreg]

i thought the 1766 rear barrel band was a friction fit , no retaining spring . 1777 ?

[@Real11BangBang]

When I first saw this musket I thought the exact same thing but then I did some digging and found that there are 1766 Charlottevilles with the rear retaining spring. Here is an example of an original with the rear retaining spring. They may have been retrofitted in the 1780s but there are some in existence www.bonhams.com/auctions/20066/lot/3299/ Thanks for watching

[@tmoney007confederation7]

That's actually not true about the Springfield Model 1795. Its design was copied from Charleville Model 1763 & 1766, but improved. It's also was more accurate & reliable than the Charleville. The Springfield is definitely 100% American, MFG at Springfield & later Harpers Ferry.

[@kowalski363]

Great video

[@Real11BangBang]

Thanks!

[@keithhagler502]

How is the fit with the .600 ball using the paper cartridge? I have the Lee .600 mold, but can't find any between that and .69. I can order balls in the between sizes, but I would rather be able to cast, and not rely on other suppliers. The paper thickness is no doubt an issue. Reason I ask, is I'm ordering a 1777.

[@Real11BangBang]

I ran into the same problem but the way I roll my cartridges they fit decently tight. I've also just wrapped the balls in paper or cloth and I have had pretty good results that way too. Thanks for watching

[@keithhagler502]

@@Real11BangBang I'll give it a try. I've had a .62 Baker, and using .600 balls, thought I would go up in size, but I'm still stuck with the .600's.....lolol Thanks! good shooting ;)

[@daveyjoweaver6282]

If your Dear Brother wants to gift another one of them thar muskets again, me birthday is in February. Thanks Kindly Fellers! What a Lovely Gun! Looks like a Blast to shoot! Pun intended! A Great vid with Great music and I don’t think Jon Townsend minds if you use that music at all. Many Blessings! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania

[@Real11BangBang]

haha il ask him if santa can through out another package this winter

[@Alexesssp]

Whats the song in the background?

[@Real11BangBang]

Boneparte's Retreat It's kind of the theme song for ol' Char

[@rob1399]

I wish someone would do a charleville vs brown bess shootoff!

[@Real11BangBang]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5TEoqNohp6ceZo

[@jimmyc4329]

I'm thinking of buying one myself in the near future. Where did your brother get yours from?

[@Real11BangBang]

www.militaryheritage.com/musket14.htm They come in a "non-firing state" merely for international legal reasons. All you'll have to do to make it fire is to drill the flash hole. It took me about 5 minutes with my little table top drill press.

[@keithhagler502]

@@Real11BangBang I highly recommend them. Robert is wonderful to deal with, especially when one has a hard time deciding. As of yesterday, my 77 is on it's way. The 5-foot clarinet.

[@wonder-bred]

Any advice on drilling the touch hole, im thinking of getting one from them. Thats a beautiful musket! Also, what size round ball do you shoot?

[@keithhagler502]

@@wonder-bred I'm going to do a lot of double-checking, but the way I have read it, is to use a 1/16" bit and put it centered and directly underneath the frizzen cover or slightly lower at closed position. Any lower, and powder will seep into the flash hole and create the 'fuse' effect. Some breechplugs are cut at an angle for this, so probably stop the drill right upon going through breech wall or one may hit the opposite side of the breech plug. This is only what I have been able to find as far as info, and will see how it goes with mine soon. For the Charlevilles, historically with paper cartridge it was a .65 to .662 ball, but with patched ball, .67 to .678. I know I don't have to add this, but if anyone is reading this and decides to drill their own, please don't use Chinese drill bits. Go and get a good Dewalt bit and 'go slow'.

[@Real11BangBang]

@@keithhagler502 Thats pretty much it. It only takes about 5 minutes Great explanation thanks.

[@mausercal65]

Is that a Pedersoli musket ?

[@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods]

No it is made in India and imported by military heritage.thay cost around $600 right now.

[@RabbitusMaximus]

I suspect your model is more correctly the model 1777 Charlesville, as the 1766 model lacked the spring retention clip on the first barrel band in favor of a friction fit for the large one. By the 1777 model they had the spring clips on all of em. Nice video...from a Bessie shooter ;)

[@Real11BangBang]

So when I first saw this musket I thought the exact same thing but then I did some digging and found that there are 1766 Charlottevilles with the rear retaining spring. Here is an example of an original with the rear retaining spring. www.bonhams.com/auctions/20066/lot/3299/ Thanks for watching

[@RabbitusMaximus]

@@Real11BangBang interesting. Thanks for the link, too. I can’t help but wonder if it was retrofitted with one as the technology and model evolved. In fact I would think most would have upgraded their muskets given the ease and value in doing so. I’m curious now. Love the shooting - wonder if you’ll be making a dismounting and cleaning video? (The Bess is a beyotch )

[@oldgeezerproductions]

Going over the video in stop motion detail, the priming pan is not the later tilted and flat brass pan of the M1777. I'm going to have to side with the musket being a copy of a M1766. You might find my article at www.geojohn.org/Musketoon/ShootingTheFlintlock.html of some interest.

[@chriscraft4236]

Awesome video 👍🏼.

[@Real11BangBang]

thanks

[@kurttlethorup]

Do the frizzens ever wear out? Highly recommend military heritage arms?

[@Real11BangBang]

I've fired several hundred rounds through this gun and the frizzen has held up real well on mine. As for military heritage the the guns aren't quite pedersoli quality but they are still pretty nice. Not mention under half the price. The customer service however is out of this world. So yes I would give them a try. I've made a full review on them if you want to hear more of my thoughts on military heritage. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpK0hZ6qjsd4d6M

[@Linguiniqc]

How many grains of powder do you put in the musket?

[@Real11BangBang]

here is a test video with charges kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6vKf2OdiaaSY6s

[@TheBiggestIron]

What was the orginal ball size used in paper cartridges? I see you listed you used .600 but is that the orginal size?

[@Real11BangBang]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6vKf2OdiaaSY6s here is an accuracy test and if you look through the recent videos on the channel you will find one on how to make the cartridges

[@TheBiggestIron]

@@Real11BangBang thanks, I really enjoy the channel and will eventually buy an Indian 1766 from military heritage. If this blunderbuss thats on its way is any good. I'd like to get 1 mold for both. 0.638 awesome 👌

[@Hooty52]

I Think .063 pre 1840 and .064 post 1840 that is when "Industrialization i.e. that is when Musket Balls (not the Cartridges) where made by machinery " came to the Ammo Manufacturing Industry ( I Think!!!)

[@dougdukes1039]

Where did you get the music?

[@Real11BangBang]

Jims Red Pants kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnmck3p_rKtmhc0

[@Riando4590]

Hey ! Sorry but I forgot to ask you what kind of black powder do you use and what charge ?

[@Real11BangBang]

For the Charleville I use 120 grains of FFG Goex when I prime from the cartridge. Roughly 20 grains for priming, 100 grains for loading. When I hunt with the Charleville I load 100 grains of FFG Goex from the cartridge and I use a homemade priming flask full of FFFFG for better reliability and faster lock time. Thanks for watching

[@fredricknolan3905]

That is why you use a round patch.

[@Real11BangBang]

Yes I normally would. I was just trying to demonstrate a historical way it was done when paper was unavailable. Thanks for watching

[@fredricknolan3905]

@@Real11BangBang They would use a linen square from women's drawers or their shirt. They keep moving from tree to tree until their horns ran out then use that buss to keep busting heads. Same principle as when you run out of ammo. What does it become? A CLUB!!!

[@Real11BangBang]

@@fredricknolan3905 Or they would use pillow ticking or on some occasions perhaps even deer hide

[@SuperSneakySteve]

Are you really using a .600 ball in a 69cal musket? That seems way undersized.

[@Real11BangBang]

yes. this a very old video the original paper cartridges shoot a 64 thats what we shoot now. the 75 cal brown bess shoots a .69 so generally you stay 5-6 cals under on the military guns

[@HypocriticYT]

how many grains of powder do you load with?

[@Real11BangBang]

I load 120 grain cartridges

[@Real11BangBang]

I've here recently updated my Cartridges to the original 18th century load. now I load 155 grains of 1-1/2 F. 10 grains for priming 145 for shooting

[@oldtrooper8320]

That method of loading without wadding is called “tap loading”. Just drop the ball and tap the butt on the ground... it was used when expediency was needed after one ran out of cartridges... 😂

[@assassinaria]

What was the purpose of wadding, if I may ask?

[@chickensandwich1589]

What is the max charge you put through this musket?

[@Real11BangBang]

Proof tested at 200 grains of FFG

[@chickensandwich1589]

@@Real11BangBang Awesome

[@asas-mb4wj]

What type of worm fits these ram rods?

[@Real11BangBang]

I got the musket worm from track of the wolf

[@asas-mb4wj]

@@Real11BangBang Theres quite a few of these musket worms, is it male or female threaded? Thread pattern?

[@rodriqcc]

I would prefer if you didn't have so much background music. I would like to hear u talk

[@Real11BangBang]

this is an old video we have sice gotten better with audio

[@bowiebowie3624]

One thing you did wrong you need to turn the the stock towards you and the barrel away from you instead of turning it towards you that's the only thing you've done wrong and everything

[@brownbess1967]

8.43 please never load direct from the horn is dangerous, use a measure, sorry my english.

[@Real11BangBang]

you are right. thanks for watching

[@pigmanobvious]

So are these made in India? Compared to Pedersoli the price is shockingly low which kind of makes me wonder. Good vid otherwise . I never owned a flint musket but having recently been studying the Napoleonic wars after being a Civil war guy my whole life.. Well you know how we are!!

[@STho205]

So did you buy one.

[@pigmanobvious]

No

[@STho205]

@@pigmanobvious if you do... For flintlock military replicas the quality goes: Navy Arms or Dixie Gunworks, Miroku-Japan, pre 2000 (you have to buy them used but they look, weigh, balance, shoot and feel like the originals) Italian... a bit heavy but top quality steel and machining. Good precision, and straight. The India importers. An importer that has done it for over ten years (Track of the Wolf, Loyalist Arms or Military Heritage...) will have weeded out the crappy builders. Their stuff 15-20 years ago was troublesome. It got better. However the wood is Asian exotic, the metal is plated to look more like quality steel, the barrels have wavy metal outside, the springs are pretty stiff, the batteries (frizzens) are hit and miss. Some spark great, some are pains.

[@pigmanobvious]

S Tho I guess I’d go with Dixie as I have both their 53 Enfield and 59 Sharps and both are absolute works of art! Still have not been able to get the flinty as farming keeps getting in the way. I love history but the critters must eat!!

[@valeriethornblade9466]

Från India?

[@Real11BangBang]

Ja

[@eugenewhite8988]

Your music overrode the whole presentation, could not watch the whole thing.

[@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods]

The music is to cover up the wind we didnt have a mike with dead cat kind of shoe string budget back then lol. thanks for watching.

[@1122maniac]

Why did you put your mouth over the barrel 😰

[@Real11BangBang]

the idea is that by blowing down the barrel you blow out any potential embers in the barrel it also tells you weather the touch hole is clear and also the moisture in your breath keeps the fouling soft.our ancestors did it and there is plenty of documentation of it being done in history however we did notice that it makes people uncomfortable so we have cut back on doing in our later videos

[@clintfoster1639]

Good video but that damm music is a distraction

[@fredjacobsen5025]

More Damn music drowning out the presenters comments.

[@Real11BangBang]

this is an older video. we have more modern videos out on this musket without the music. this was was filmed on a cell phone with no wind protection on the microphone so we used music to cover the wind. we now use a lav microphone with wind screens. thank you for watching.

[@Woody-mu6hr]

Dreadful things

[@chriscraft4236]

Please the background music ruined the video much of what you speak is lost, bummer