Making and shooting 18th century military paper cartridges

[@JohnLeePedimore]

Newspaper works good but if you use the politics section your accuracy will suffer.

[@scottbarber6694]

Ding ding ding !!! WINNER!

[@mytmousemalibu]

That was hilarious! I agree, best to use the other pages and not only will you spare your accuracy but everyone needs something to wipe their butts with, I can't think of a better use for the politics section!

[@KB4QAA]

+JohnLeePedimore Actually I find the Politics Section gives a bit more spin to everything! :)

[@iac4357]

With the sports section, the ball drops left at the target !

[@MrCat-pn5vt]

Ba dump tss!

[@MrDimitriPetrenko]

Your quality and care in these videos shows real dedication and passion. I appreciate what you do, thank you.

[@e.grieves2905]

I can see why drill was so important in 18th century musketry. Great video.

[@badgerrrlattin35]

Gotta admit, that priming the weapon first puts a shiver in my liver but it seems to work well enough.

[@InterCity134]

Yep, having the loaded barrel with your face and hands over it, and ramming it ... all while there is powder in the pan.... every ounce of safety circuitry in my brain says "danger will robinson, danger!" However, its the only way to fire rapid in succession to put lead down range in a repeated fashion. If one were to first load the ram, and then prime the pan, and lord help you swab the barrel between shots, your fire rate would go down so much you might get bayonetted before a 2nd shot is let loose ...

[@CaliforniaFly]

Mike, I read about making paper cartridges for cap and ball revolvers years ago. The article was written by Turner Kirkland for the Dixie Gun Works catalog years ago. He soaked paper in potassium nitrate, but it looks like loading a musket and a BP revolver are two different animals. Now I want to try this for the Perdosili Trade Musket that I just bought last month. I haven't even fired it yet. Great info!

[@jwkennington]

I'd like to point out that the Von Steuben musket drill specifically says AIM. The British 1764 drill says PRESENT. And ALL rifle companies aimed at specific targets.

[@theenhancer]

Thanks for the video Mike. I like showing the trial and error, it's the kind of thing anyone else is going to encounter, and it's better to show rather than to just tell.

[@richardlahan7068]

Thanks for showing us your mistake so others don't make the same mistake with ball diameter and paper thickness.

[@TheLegumMagister]

Very interesting Mike! The idea that an army could get its soldiers to stand in neat ranks, some few yards away from another line of similarly occupied opponents, and perform this drill, while being shot at and shelled is quite remarkable... Brave blokes, undoubtedly.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

love watching the hands get more black each round!

[@adrianadrian2735]

What a great channel have I discovered today.

[@D5quared91]

I had the same thing happen to me recently where the paper cartridges for my .54 caliber horse pistol where too large. I changed the paper to a thinner type and used slightly smaller diameter balls and they now fit perfectly down the bore.

[@frankdn109]

Thanks for sharing this! Nice to see someone not afraid to share the learning curve- that takes guts. One nit: in reprints of 18th century (& earlier) manuals-of-arms I've seen, illustrating the loading procedure, the butt never touches the ground. (Also, bayonet.)

[@jeffreyrobinson3555]

You know Mike I’ve shot ml for nearly fifty years, shot paper cartridges first time about ‘78. And I enjoy the heck out of watching your vids.

[@johnbernstein203]

Mike......why no lube to soften fouling ?

[@dahartman88]

I find taking knowledge from accomplished military tactics to be the best mentality to add to the frontiersman and bush/woodcraft

[@ArrowXDesign]

Really cool demonstration. Thanks for showing how its done.

[@nationgarza4721]

This was really great for reference. Thanks so much Mike!

[@iac4357]

I must say, priming the frizzen from the cartridge is quite a bit faster than priming with a CW era cap. Even when using a cap speed loader !

[@folsomdave]

The undersized .600 caliber ball does definitely help offset the accumulation of fouling as you shoot the second - fifth shots.

[@raccoonlittlebear6476]

Great instruction Mike! Thank you sooo much! KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!

[@GrapeNephi]

That .68 ball with the paper he used at first would be a good fit for the Brown Bess.

[@imhntn1]

Very nice! Thanks for sharing some history with us.

[@iac4357]

@ 9:54, Paper Pete starts shooting back !

[@andymandyandsheba4571]

its a lot quicker way of loading black powder and ball its good to see how it was done in times gone by great video mike thanks for uploading it and the new range rules are a load of twaddle no body will shoot there

[@wittsullivan8130]

Changing to a .68" ball was a good call, from what I've read, Brown Bess muskets had a .74-'75" bore, but they used a .68" ball so they could get several shots before fouling made it too hard to load. With Lee .678" balls, using a .10" patch is REALLY tight in my .69 Springfield. I don't use the rammer from the rifle, I use a field rod. I bought two of the Traditions (?) multi-piece ramrod/cleaning rods and use a combo of the sections from both for the long barrel of the Springfield. I don't want to damage the rod that came with it with patches because it's designed for a patchless martial load.

[@wildrangeringreen]

I'm assuming you mean .010" patch, which with that ball is .698" (too tight, you're probably deforming the ball trying to get it down) , so I would imagine it would be hard to load (I'd probably go with a smaller ball or switch to paper patching (20# paper avg's .004", 28# is .005" and 32# paper is .006"; and remember, double your patching thickness when determining bore fit 9assuming a single wrap)). the rammer on the Springfield is about 5/16" steel, can't possibly imagine you damaging it unless you intend to (that being said, I usually make a brass tipped stainless or aluminum rammer for my guns for corrosion resistance and/or weight). Always leave a few thou clearance for fouling (don't worry, with a respectable charge, the ball will swell and seal the bore as long as the load is within .005" of the bore (in my experience)).

[@Las-Vegas-Muskets]

The bore on my Pedersoli 1766 supposedly in .69. I have to use a .662 ball for paper cartridges and a .678 ball for target shooting.

[@Leatherbark]

Hello Mike A choke string with a "T" handle makes choking the front down a lot easier before tying. And in a neater fashion. Attach a string to your bench with a handle on the end. After forming the tube wrap your choke string around the end in front of the ball and place your finger against the end of the tube. Slowly pull choke string to "Choke" a waist while holding your finger against the end of the tube (to keep the choke string from falling off until you make a little mushroom). Pull the choke tight, remove the choke and ty the ball in. Bob

[@sontagkevin]

Thanks for the video! I am going to try and make some paper cartridges for my 32 cal squirrel rifle.

[@james_lessick892]

Great video, I learn allot. Gonna do this with my Bess.👌🤠👍

[@duelist1954]

Use this video for the Bess. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6KwoqeOeqarbqs

[@johnnerren8345]

I use a .648 ball in my .69 caliber weapons when I use a paper cartridge.. Usual procedure is to rip the cartridge open and prime the pan (not by today's safety standards),pour the powder down the barrel, then ram ball and paper down the barrel without taking the ball out of the paper. As the barrel fouled you could take the ball out of the paper and then use the paper as wadding.

[@rayornelas8459]

That tri corner hat is a force multiplier

[@leverfever375]

mike...........is there any lube you could use with the paper cartridges to reduce fouling.............such as a rifled hawken?

[@mountainmanwilliams]

I just subscribed to your channel and I love this video. I was wondering if the template size would work for the 50 caliber

[@duelist1954]

You'll have to adjust it for the smaller bore

[@mytmousemalibu]

So aside from authenticity perhaps in certain firearms, is there any reason I could't make paper cartridges with nitrocellulose paper, aka. flash paper? I know those are the hot ticket for paper in cap & ball revolver cartridges. I would like to try making some with a wonder wad to help with fouling too.

[@duelist1954]

That paper might not be strong enough for paper cartridge use.

[@MrDimitriPetrenko]

Would you consider buck and ball loads? Also would you consider this to be a viable and more convenient way to prepare for a range session or a hunting trip?

[@duelist1954]

I have shot buck and ball loads, and I do not think they do anything good for you in a hunting situation

[@MrDimitriPetrenko]

Good to hear your feedback.

[@crystalrock18]

Very cool video!

[@jean-martindrapeau3286]

Merci mike!! Très bon vidéo!!

[@tylerdibenedetto2641]

That's awesome.

[@Jerreinemy]

ok at the 10 min mark i got scared i thought it went of on you, perfect timing

[@62forged]

Great video.. Thanks for sharing.

[@TheMountainman211]

I think you should do a video on early American trade guns like the fusil de chasse or British trade gun

[@johnorlitta]

Thanks for the tutorial Mike. I've always wondered if the practice of cartridge making was also practiced by civilian hunters, to me it would make sense for them to utilize this time saving loading procedure out in the field. I especially liked the period music that you had playing in the background at 7:28, perhaps it might be something that you would consider doing for future muzzle loading videos?

[@ScoutSniper3124]

Take care on those follow-on shots not to have a bit of paper ember still glowing. I realize for combat that wouldn't be much of a concern, but there's no sense in losing chunks of your hand to a premature firing. To be 100% safe, I'd suggest swabbing the barrel with a damp cloth between firing and loading the next round.

[@94233psu399154112333]

Good video as always.

[@jappletonhowe9649]

Excellent video!....Have you ever used your Brown bess like a Fowler? Instead of ball cartridges, have some with shot? thanks

[@leithafae]

why do you need the glue, I used to use a flintlock for re-enactment and we never used glue to keep it closed. a twist on the bottom and push the form with the hollow bottom at the end keeps them closed without losing powder with out need for glue

[@lukes146]

Thank you for the video

[@flamecharge8019]

I finnaly found out what roblox 18th century war games use now and even before i found out how they work i just theorized it this video really helps

[@Dieseljockey98]

Thank You for posting,I will try this with an English Fowler.

[@wulfdont7011]

i have use the wax paper napfins like you pick up donuts with works great an doest raw moisture in humid times as bad a news paper.

[@joedunbar2072]

Nice video mike

[@Rumblestrip]

I'd love to see how you make your shot cartridges for your fusil

[@1717jbs]

Great stuff! Thanks.

[@michaelmcbride4310]

Never put your hand over the barrel when replacing the ramrod, just incase there was still hot power left over from the prior shot

[@aninjawaffle98]

Michael McBride let me live my life!

[@johnndavis7647]

Too late, if there was an ember in the bore it would Set off the powder when you poured the powder into the bore. With millions of rounds fired it didn't happen often enough for anybody to mention it.

[@kddreadlord5532]

I'm trying to make paper cartridges for my Harper's Ferry flintlock pistol (.58 caliber). Is there a way for me to roll one with a lubricated patch inside?

[@duelist1954]

Not really, but the cartridge paper function somewhat like a patch, and you can lube the paper over the ball.

[@kddreadlord5532]

@@duelist1954 Alright thank you! I was curious since I saw someone else stick patches in their cartridges.

[@kddreadlord5532]

@@duelist1954 I'm thinking of rolling a basic ball and powder cartridge, then dipping it in beeswax and letting it dry. Would this help reduce fouling while maintaining accuracy?

[@duelist1954]

@@kddreadlord5532 I thik it would reduce the fowling to a certain extent, but I don't see the benefit of using a paper cartridge at all. If you have the modern, rifled version of this pistol, you need a ball and patch combination that is tightly fitting enough to hold the rifling. If you use a paper cartridge you need the paper/patch combo to be equal in thickness to the ball and patch that does not use a cartridge. This won't load any easier than a standard ball and patch. You are better off making paper tubes to hold powder charges only, and load the patched ball separately.

[@peterisaacs1344]

As usual Mike. You are a font of information

[@nojremlock6826]

Can the ball end be dipped in wax ? To seal the end instead of a tie off

[@wildrangeringreen]

you very well may push the ball through the patching without the tie holding the crimped paper closed (the Brits had that issue with the 1851 Rifle-Musket). But I use a hot dip in soft wax (3:1 Paraffin wax to petrol jelly, with a TBS or so of winter diesel additive) to lube the cartridges just the bullet portion

[@stevensheldon9271]

Hi, can you tell me the historical source for the cartridge paper dimensions? Thanks.

[@juststartsomewhere9089]

So you don't need the patch if using this method?

[@duelist1954]

No

[@jamesvolo7948]

Bite off the ball. Its in your mouth. Prime. Pour into barrel. Add ball and ram home. MAKE READY! PRESENT! FIRE! A little lead poisoning is OK.

[@jamesvolo7948]

@Robert Stallard Did i say to leave the paper cartridge out? it acts as a wad. However putting the ball into the barrel still surrounded by the paper makes ramming very difficult after just a couple of shots.

[@jaket2k927]

Will these work for cap locks like the Hawken Rifle? I was thinking of making a couple with ball rounds.

[@KB4QAA]

+jaket2k9 No, a true rifle needs a ball with cloth patch. You could still make up paper cartridges to hold just the powder or powder and ball for convenience, but you would have to discard the paper and use a patch.

[@jaket2k927]

But I've fired Jacketed and conical rounds out of mine just fine. I've had this question answered long ago and the short answer is its not work the time and effort.

[@thinkingmonk9676]

What a pleasant fellow

[@e.kent.d9561]

Usual great video. I guess, in a long battle, they might have to do frequent fast cleaning. Just standing there in a long line, in the open, waiting for one of those big chunks of lead to hit. Rank and file, I forget which is which.

[@jamesvolo7948]

Paper cartridges rule!

[@Riazor1370]

What happen if you fill with some kind of conical minnie bullets? Will that work?

[@jackfinlander3359]

I think I read something about continentals doing that for ship to ship combat or boarding

[@marco2ol]

+jack lind it worked

[@KB4QAA]

+Riazor1370 Well, one problem is that Minie' Balls wouldn't be invented for about 80 years after the American Revolution! Another is that without rifling grooves a Minie Ball would just tumble and be terribly inaccurate.

[@KhanGirey]

Also, would the way the bullet is wrapped in paper reduce its accuracy?

[@caracaes]

Actually, historically, the ball wasn't put in the barrel while wrapped. The way of reloading with cartridges was ripping the bullet off, holding it with the teeth, dropping the powder down and putting the paper as a wad, then you put the ball, without any paper over it. They used a very thick paper for cartridges, so it'd be more resilient and would protect the powder from moisture. If they were to put the ball with the paper, they'd have to use a way smaller calliber. I suspect that the paper duelist used is so thin that it get completely burned before leaving the barrel, but with a thicker paper, it would definitely get some out of the barrel and reduce accuracy. EDIT: I hadn't finished the whole video and saw another strange thing afterwards. He puts powder in the firing pan before loading. That's usually not the way to go. Putting powder in the firing pan is usually the last thing you do before firing.

[@ArcherMochi]

Jonatas Silveira Baldo He primed with the cartridge first, because if you dumped the charge down the barrel before priming, you wouldn't have any powder to put in the pan. And as far as loading the ball, standard practice in the American army was to leave the ball in the paper when loading. Holding the ball in the teeth MIGHT have happened in some European countries, but never in the states.

[@abefrohman1759]

Do you ever dimple the ball before shooting?

[@duelist1954]

No

[@matthewchoquette2791]

Hi Mike and thanks for getting to my last question so quickly. Can you tell me if Taylor's and company are going to make that the Remington 1855 convention and if they already did please contact me PS love your articles in guns of the old west a loyal subscriber.

[@jamesparlane9289]

I think I would rather prime the pan after I have rammed the powder and ball. Doing it your way is more inclined to take a hand off if the trigger is bumped

[@lorenr3276]

skrimishers in the 18th century would aim at individual targets

[@seacheese7280]

what paper do you use for the cartridges? i am new to this :)

[@duelist1954]

I use pages out of old books.

[@namaske2594]

I really like that coat youre wearing

[@liammickle1799]

Where do you get the black powder

[@Bearlake1624]

What would they do in the field when the rifle became fouled

[@gavan7720]

they would have tools to try to do the best they could but its not a rifle its a smooth bore like most shot guns

[@christopherbennett4559]

SteviePlaysMinecraft that was my question is this smooth bore or rifle ?

[@iac4357]

Before using a scapper tool which needs attaching to the ramrod, they would wet a cloth patch in their mouth and swab out the barrel using the ramrod.

[@mikegrossberg8624]

They pissed down the barrel, dumped it out, and twisted patches onto the end of the ramrod

[@fordfan3179]

I'm guessing this is just to speed up the firing sequence and NOT do much for accuracy. I wonder if a paper, ball and powder cartridge could be worked up that would afford, speed, accuracy and reduce or slow fowling in rifled muskets.

[@wildrangeringreen]

you mean... the Enfield-Pritchett Cartridge... where a .577 caliber rifle uses a .55 hollow-based bullet to maintain accuracy and ease of loading. IDK, it might be possible (i'm being facetious, of course)

[@fordfan3179]

@@wildrangeringreen I need to use a patched round ball.

[@wildrangeringreen]

@@fordfan3179 in all seriousness then... unless your the rules dictate the use of cloth, you could do what I do for my round ball guns. (example here is .50) I make a cartridge using 20# paper (avg's .004"), when its wrapped 1.25x around a .490 ball, it comes out to .499. Dip the paper in molten soft wax (3:1 paraffin: vaseline, with a TBS of diesel winter additive). Loaded like a pritchett cartridge, it's every bit as accurate as a cloth patch, but I can load 20 shots without a wipe. Now if you need leather or cloth patching, you could do what was done in Austrian and many southern German Jagerkorp and use tubes (historically, brass, one could use vinyl tubing if they want); a cork or plug was hammered in one end, the powder poured in, and the ball in its patching was wedged in the open end. You'll want a soft wax on the patch to lube it without contaminating the powder. The patching was stitched around the ball to hold it to the ball. Brits did similar for the 1800 pattern rifle, but used paper instead of metal tubes (I assume for cost).

[@fordfan3179]

@@wildrangeringreen the paper and paper tube was the idea that looked the most viable. I can even get paper tubes .40 so once you bite the top off you just funny the powder down the barrel without having to pay too much attention to it. Flip the empty tube over, put the ball in the hole and snap the tube off, rm the ball home. Waxed paper seems like the deal. I'll do some experimenting this spring. I'm just getting around in the car now after having both knees done at the same time. I'm really chomping at the bit to get to the range. I did drive by there last week when it was warm that one day, it was a mad house. They were limiting shooting benches to 45 minutes. I think I could have gotten maybe 10 shots after I set up baring any malfunctions. You can't shoot from a bag or use a powder horn at the range so the paper cartridge will suit that purpose as well and transition to a bag or ammo pouch system well at woods walks.

[@KhanGirey]

You're back at the range! Did those restrictions get rescinded?

[@duelist1954]

No. That's why I'm shooting Paper Pete instead of Evil Roy.

[@Nakapeesh]

nice mike

[@drewt.4353]

Cool

[@claydawson4783]

Mike. Did you once work at “the Depot” in Mechanicsburg? I moved up in 1996 with NAVSUP.

[@duelist1954]

Yes. I was at NAVICP.

[@claydawson4783]

So who would have EVER guessed i would run across you in my search for “Brown Bess”! I just bought one.

[@shanemccauley8354]

Hey Mike I was at school of the long hunter this weekend and was hoping to meet you there and heard some concerning news. A fellow in a club I’m with said you are Ill I hope he was mistaken if not you are in my prayers and Godspeed

[@duelist1954]

Info on my condition is here: www.mikebeliveau.com/blog/update-on-mike

[@caracaes]

You probably know more about this stuff than I do, but I've read in a lot of places, and seen re-enactors doing it. The paper cartridge wasn't put intact in the barrel. They'd first separate the ball from the cartridge, holding it with the teeth, then put the powder down the barrel, then put the ball without the paper. That's mostly because they used a thick paper for the cartridges, so it wouldn't rip accidentaly and also to protect the powder from moisture. (they also didn't have thin, milled paper as we have today).

[@iac4357]

The paper is needed down the barrel to make sure the ball didn't roll out, and to provide a gas seal on the under-sized ball.

Jonatas Silveira Baldo I've seen period made paper cartridges where they used newspaper for their cartridge. Their cartridge box had a wooden block with holes drilled into it to hold the cartridges, so they were fairly well protected.

[@L3THALXFOX]

Why can't you just ram the whole thing down like in revolver paper cartridges?

[@justinbailey1756]

I want that hat.

[@jjohnston94]

Does that gun have any sights at all?

[@89tonstar]

+jjohnston94 no 18th century soldiers generally did not aim their weapons. The order was given simply to present their arms to broad front of the enemy battalion line and fire when given the order.

[@STho205]

This one has one sight on the front barrel band. of course that band wiggles, so it is ignored. British Besses had no sight at all. American 18th cen muskets had sights like the French one here.

[@gavan7720]

+S Tho a Brown Bess has sights

[@STho205]

Long Land Besses only have a bayonet lug on top of the barrel. That is not a sight, but a mount. It is eclipsed when the bone is fitted. Notice, no fine fin as a sight would have. Just a lug.

[@CALIBRSTEPAN]

NICE!

[@wittsullivan8130]

Resurrecting a thread...:) I've seen other videos where they tear the cartridge, pour the powder in, drop the ball on top, and then ram the remnants of the paper cartridge on top of the ball to act as a wad to keep the ball from falling out. Your first attempt was great, you were just not using it correctly. I do recognize that you said you had never used paper cartridges before. The manufacturing technique was perfect.

[@patriothaven671]

That is actually a modern technique. The way he used it is the proper military technique

[@gtb81.]

you can use printer paper can't you? it comes up to .58 but idk if it will when you cram it in like that

[@wildrangeringreen]

I use 20# (.004 avg thickness) paper for my rifle cartridges, just remember to double your paper thickness and add it to the bullet diameter when determining fit. for my .50, I use a .490 sized bullet with 1.25 wraps of paper on the cartridge; and it ends up being somewhere around .499, dip the bullet end in molten soft wax and loads easy, yet it's every bit as accurate as tightly cloth-patched ball.

[@christopherbennett4559]

what size dowle for 58 minie ?

[@iac4357]

~5/8" .

[@opalprestonshirley1700]

Good video. I tell ya I wouldn't want any of those hits on me. Thanks. atb

[@worddunlap]

It is a nice looking musket. If I was not just loving my semi-auto rifle and handguns I'd own one..

[@Snagabott]

I understand that is how they did it, but it really makes me uneasy the amount your hand is forced to move close to and over the muzzle of a loaded musket.

[@richardelliott9511]

From what I have read the real danger in using muzzle loading paper cartridges is the chance of smoldering bits of paper igniting the powder of the next load. The men were tought to keep there head back and not cover the muzzle with their hands. Hold all following components between thumb and forefinger, so any blast would go between their fingers, reducing injury. Yes, their safety expectations back then were very different than today's. Such as, I just can't imagine shooting a flintlock with out eye protection! Have fun and Stay safe.

[@wildrangeringreen]

@@richardelliott9511 There is no ember in the bore!!! In 20 years, never seen it, nor met a reliable witness of it (gun barrels are very hostile places for pretty much everything, its why we have to salt gunpowder). Also, the lock is designed to keep you safe.... otherwise the design would have changed. Attaching your safety-sally, knee-jerk notions to stuff without thinking just perpetuates felicitous information.

[@wildrangeringreen]

@Jason B. potassium nitrate's a salt. Charcoal and sulphur will burn pretty fierce with free oxygen, but put in a confined space, and it doesn't do much.

[@jasonb7230]

looks like 20yards at most. but i really like the video

[@renoblevg5375]

Just so you're aware, there's a guy named mac gyver who's using your video

[@thedamnyankee1]

The Fusel you are holding has sights on it, yet you say "18th century soldiers didn't aim!" incredibly incorrect.

[@robposton2439]

I don't think the Continental Army used an old K-Mart ad to make theirs. ;-)

[@lyleinmb464]

THANKS.

[@russellhamner5150]

You should consider showing the development of blackpowder guns over the years and the modern developments like CVA paramount, knight, Ruger new model army arrowhead rifles, triple seven, and blackhorn 209 to show the development from caveman days to modern muzzleloader its a great story that hasn’t been told and really needs to be told. You could steer people in the right direction by reviews and add to your baseline…just sayin, can’t stay a caveman forever. You can broaden your horizons while still staying on the same subject matter of black powder without discarding the caveman…food for thought nobody is doing this 😮

[@danielm7585]

When I was a kid I learned the old way, We ran a course, and we loaded by feel, and no patches.

[@isaaccarranza1039]

I think you meant 1766

[@huntertraq3r462]

I just made a musket but im just 10 years old amd i dont know how i made one Lol i was like what the heck did i just made a musket