The “$20” Wooting Clone. (Mad60HE)

[@Wooting]

Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.

[@Lötkrebs]

True, never thought about it like that

[@shironium]

keep being you wooting ❤❤

[@Benni259]

its like buying the reprinted $100 book for $10 and still get the same thing out of it lol

[@echoeee]

hi wooting can i have free keyboad

[@Mr-R.R.]

Very true and if the plagiarized product will offer me practicality the same features/options at a significantly reduced price, I will always go with that

[@kreamypie]

“Take control” ❌ “Fake control” ✅

[@Winkyfn]

Fr

[@Psicoverz]

''Same Control and better sounds'' ✅

[@sandwich-plays]

@@PsicoverzIt performs worse actually

[@V3RT3X_PINNACLE]

@@sandwich-plays Better bang for your buck though.

[@sunking3804]

"The $20 Wooting Clone. To start off the keyboard is actually not 20$" very cool.

[@Twowaner]

he put "20" because thats what people refer to it as, not what it is.

[@Buizie]

it actually is $20 though (in shopee)

[@chemus9217]

I think it is 20 bucks, but the cheapest non RGB model just isn't in stock anymore, even the company stopped making it

[@shofps26]

@@Buizie delusion

[@DieKottis]

@@Twowaner thanks for clarification, i genuinely thought he tried to bait us with the 20 dollar title

[@tahfizhabib]

In Bangladesh, most people can't afford $100 keyboards. They want inexpensive ones with lots of features. Buying online is difficult due to credit card issues and taxes. This makes the MAD60 keyboard readily accessible through local sellers.

[@ownage8742]

broke people

[@dracobaka]

@@ownage8742 more like less valuable currency and stricter laws but I digress

[@dqskatt]

It's will be funny when your "20$" keyboard can't be configured anymore because manufacturers are gone and don't care about consumers enough to release downloadable software. Your hall effects keyboard will essentially be just normal keyboards with abnormally high power consumption. There're a lots of good alternatives from reputable companies for just a little more. Why should you risk precious "20$" in a poor country for keyboards that will become useless somedays because it was made by unprofitable companies that are doomed to fail.

[@dracobaka]

@@dqskatt good points but it's not like he's gonna stick w the same keyboard all his life. I had a redragon k552 as my first mechanical keyboard and it works great even though I've had it for like 3 years now, I just switched to an ajazz ak820 pro for about $60 and it's great but I don't think you need to own a keyboard that's like over $100, you can easily own a keyboard from a name brand for $40 or so and make it last years. If I were him I'd personally have that $20 dareu keyboards or eyooso ones (Chinese brands) or some other ones from ali express for a first ever keyboard but over time I'd buy a better one

[@boattvl6411]

​@@dqskatt with that logic, after the keyboard become useless, just buy another 20 dollar keyboard again that very similar to the popular keyboard at the time? no? lmao

[@Shohshaz]

Ok his uploading schedule is getting better

[@TechKnoTeo]

From a Brazilian's point of view, considering that imported products come with insane prices in the country, the Wooting is a product that is honestly unattainable due to its price in Brazil, which is around R$ 2600. The MadLions offers basically the same thing as the Wooting, but for around R$ 250. Considering that the minimum wage in the country is R$ 1400, if you find yourself in this situation, like I do, in a devalued country, DO NOT BUY THE WOOTING. No product should cost twice your salary! and do not feel guilty on that!

[@masterzifoo]

mano eu também sou brasileiro tenho o Apex pro e tenho o wooting mas nao achei caro comparado a outros países, isso depende de quanto você ganha no mes no seu trabalho, mas eu recomendaria o mad60he sem duvidas, ao menos que você tenha grana sobrando e quer gastar no wooting

[@Rabelo_-]

​@masterzifooo apex pro é uma vergonha pro preço

[@kraenovt]

Screw moral cost; I can afford a Wooting, but I ain't paying 200 USD for a keyboard when I can get a similar one that's like 1/4 the price. And everyone who comments saying it's morally wrong, tell me: in your whole life, you haven't pirated a game, downloaded cracked software, or downloaded music on KZbin instead of paying for it on Spotify because it's morally correct?

[@SquashyBoy]

i had my keyboard design stolen by a chinese company and i know how it feels first hand.

[@clapnir]

@@SquashyBoy what a shit show go back in time and wooting woud make a diffrent design not this one nobody woud say if the mad 60 HE comes it has a good design

[@JxremyWrld]

no, i use soundcloud, and I can afford spotify but I don't like it..

[@diztinger]

What's morally wrong about this? You can't patent a design like that. Otherwise there would've been numerous lawsuits already. It's not like you're stealing things.

[@luqmanmohiuddin4006]

@@SquashyBoy Owh Boohoo, entrepreneurs hate competition. Like there is anything different here.

[@2kata]

If these people can make the same keyboard for 1/10th the price, frankly I don't care that it's plagarism.

[@ryanolsen294]

lol

[@leonkim-u4e]

fr especially if the only con of this keyboard is that its a knock off like smd

[@ktoru2655]

During its release it WAS actually as low as 22 dollars, I got mine for 26.43. Although im someone who disapprove of plagiarism, Im not someone who can afford a cheap HE keybpard other than the Madlions 60HE and this just shows that a keyboard that would normally be expensive is being sold at a cheap price means our technology is advancing further for people to be able to access it without having to cough up a huge sum. People tend to think that every gamer are well off and would have access to new technology and games. This is also exactly why ANY attempt to get rid of plagiarism using the law will NEVER succeed, especially in china. Here to represent the budget gamers from SEA. (I own an Inplay set thats how broke I am)

[@SquashyBoy]

i respect that man. the whole part about the tech being improved to be cheaper and better is something im all for. mechanical keyboards used to start at $200 and now they are as cheap as ever. and this situation, i believe, is that for hall effect keyboards. also shout out to SEA.

[@ultramasterultra5724]

no its just china wooting costs like 30 bucks to make yet they charge like 200

[@ropotato1145]

@@ultramasterultra5724 yeah but it's one of the best company. If you have a problem, they will be here for it + they have the best software. (i'm not against the mad60he).

[@vaeger2947]

Don’t most copies from China come from the same manufacturer usually? So those who sell those copies have less expenses compared to official sellers? (I’m not sure 😅)

[@lukafireman]

@@ultramasterultra5724 Ye, it actually most likely costs less than that, however the initial draft, designing, planning, revisions, etc. Costs a bunch and usually uses much more expensive material at the start, once the prototype is working perfectly and the software is polished and done, they dilute the hardware as much as possible so you would get the least minimum in hardware value compared to investment. Why? ROI (Return on investment). If they don't make a return, they can't plan a new product, and planning costs way more than actual manufacturing, at least once you've figured everything out already. That's why making clones is much cheaper, however wooting is as much a clone as is MadLions.

[@hectordtb642]

im happy with my Mad 68 HE purchase tbh, i wasn't planning on dropping 200 dollars on a damn keyboard when i can get the same performance with just 40 dollars.

[@kitkatt876]

mad 68he

[@daigal1]

1- The performance isnt the same , you get the feel of HE but thats it , mad68 8khz has 760hz (not even close to 1khz) 2- No long-term support and warranty Atleast you didnt buy the flagship 80$ 8khz madlions ( 40$ and 20$ versions are acceptable)

[@albertfrengki]

​@@daigal1people said the 1000hz better than 8000hz 🤔

[@frostyiv1509]

​@@daigal1Number 1 is negligible since no human input could reach the maximum troughput of the polling rate, it's just a gimmick. Anything over 500hz for a keyboard is okay in my opinion. And, don't give me the bullshit "I could feel the 0.3 ms difference" Number 2, most people can't justify paying a premium just for the "off-sale" support , especially just for a mere keyboard.

[@frostyiv1509]

​@@albertfrengkitrue 8k hz could affect some cpu performance. That's why some people said 1k hz is good enough. Also, on the paper, 8k hz is theoritically better than 1k hz but in practical, the latency differences is unnoticable. Human average reaction time is around 230 ms anyways, your average joe wouldn't even notice it.

[@glossedghost]

"I lied in the title about the price of the keyboard!", "...but I digress." Alright brother, you've left profound first impressions on me.

[@ember_falls]

I didn't even notice lol

[@SquashyBoy]

its literally stated at the start that its called that and not actually $20. people have been calling it the “$20 wooting” and the title is to clickbait and make people realise its not actually $20 and it seems to be working

[@lamuney29]

To be fair he did put the 20$ between quotation marks

[@sagirem]

It literally says "20$" in quotation marks, and he explains why in the first 20s. Every other YT video said it was 20$ when it's not, hence the quotation mark and explanations

[@SquashyBoy]

@sagiremto be fair to the original comment, i did only change the title after seeing a few of these comments. but i was also on a flight so i had no access to it for awhile. that ones on me 😅

[@Migss]

you tried it! :D good video as always!

[@ロケット-ブライト]

indeed it was a good video

[@SquashyBoy]

was inspired by your video ;)

[@frostyiv1509]

migss 👋

[@junyaiwase]

5:28 aka “we hate that they are lowering the price of stuff we overcharge for because we dictate the market”

[@seacat9582]

Yup, wooting keyboard has been out for almost 10 years and they never lowered prices, not to mention it's always out of stock. Interesting how they are planning on "cooking" when there's competition now . Also, when steel series and razor decided to make their own versions of the wooting keyboard they also put a premium price on it. Why? Because they saw wooting getting away with it too. Personally, they are similar to Finalmouse without the brutish marketing

[@FreddyZeNerd]

tbf, what they did was completely new, so the price WAS justified at the time, however, its very marketable nowadays, so the price should follow suit as well

[@chickenpasta7359]

@@FreddyZeNerd Hall effect switches are nothing new and have been around for decades in keyboards. They may have created the software/firmware for measuring the HE switches and whatnot, but that is debatable since even a big brand like Razer has done something similar with pads like the Tartarus Pro. Them getting annoyed about clones being made, and being affordable at that shows that Wooting is just upset that their cash cow of a keyboard no longer has a monopoly and honestly I'm glad that they're getting put on their ass about it.

[@FreddyZeNerd]

@ the range of the actuation on the tartarus pro are incomprable, wooting WERE charging a good price when the product debuted, and to still charge that i think is a little weird but inevitably their choice as the seller

[@sethblack7413]

i feel like "the $38 wooting clone" would have garnered the same amount of attention instead of just lying

[@ahmedmx3575]

that's why he put "20" in the title

[@sethblack7413]

⁠@@ahmedmx3575that might not have been there when i commented idrk but thats not the point. Its still clickbait and straight up just lying when its not really needed. Imagine if instead of 20 it said “the “$0.01” wooting clone”, then is it still ok because its in quotes?

[@diztinger]

no the tf it wouldn't have, that's almost twice as expensive and depending on where you buy it, you can actually get it for 20ish bucks.

[@frederic.chopin]

In China u can actually get it on JD for like 118 rmb (16 usd) and the base model is like 13 usd

[@Asiro-S]

you can get it for 20$ pretty easily on taobao.

[@s6nyi]

“Keyboard drama” that don’t even sound real 😭

[@mikobegaming]

wait til you hear about mouse drama

[@s6nyi]

@ NOOOOO

[@Nish288]

wait until you hear about mousepad drama

[@WoollyOwl]

Knock off's are a great gateway into DIY and modding. The clone mice are really good too. Very fun to take apart and learn new things at low cost

[@Prabhu2086]

08:02 the reason why I just ordered one. I need to support them. Knockoffs will eventually bring the prices of HE keyboards to sane prices.

[@WeGaming2]

SO REAL LIKE WE DONT PRINT MONEY OUT HERE CAN WE GET SUMN AFFORDABLE

[@Yotarius]

virgin wooting: "we have better support!! we're a more known brand!!! buy our $200 keyboard!!!" chad madlions: "here have this $40 keyboard with every feature you could possibly want, basically the exact same thing as the other keyboard but actually reasonably priced" 🗿

[@DH-cv8sn]

Madlions sounds like an an evolved madcatz, the company who made those crazy mice and goofy controllers

[@50shadesofblack-s4w]

both are different companies and madcatz is long dead lmao

[@aloper5]

I wonder if the OEM manufacturer for Wooting, is now "sharing" the Wooting design to anyone with some cash...

[@tahfizhabib]

right

[@artzen1040]

My very first thoughts after watching this video

[@Zack-Strife]

It's pretty much the case here. Aula even provides the same clone for 5USD less along with a 65% version

[@NyangisKhan]

Yeah... Probably. It also kinda shows how much wooting is overcharging their customers. Like the wooting 60he really feels cheap af. Mine feels twice as cheap as the $40 Ajazz AK820Pro I got for my little sister which I totally didn't expect. It kinda pissed me off. Now it all makes sense.

[@__Cool]

Man see keyboard, man see keyboard review, man happy

[@Azurekiteful]

To be honest wooting is like 1x-2x minimum wage/month in my country capital. As much as copying is bad atleast this way rapid trigger keyboard technology is not gatekept by the high price. For people from rich country or atleast high paying job wooting will be always worth it because of it's software and support meanwhile for people from non rich country and low paying job these keyboards (mad60he) is affordable and do its job.

[@erg999]

I agree, I even think that the Price is way too high.. yes they do have nice Services.. But who needs that on a keyboard?? Most of the time People just Plug and Play.. it’s Not a car..

[@hadalabyss]

The wooting 60HE+ is about 8% of a month's pay at min wage here. For me personally it'd be about a fifth of a single week of work's earnings. Still "pricy" but clearly within reason for cutting edge stuff. It sucks but some countries just aren't target markets and I wouldn't blame you for throwing out the "ethics" at that point.

[@SquashyBoy]

I completely agree, but I still think there are better options out there at this price range. And the biggest argument I hear is “Wooting has the better software.” I gotta be real here, I touch any keyboard’s software once, set up what I need, and never again. So the whole software thing is kinda invalid imo.

[@erg999]

@@SquashyBoy I think the madlion is the best Price Value Keyboard you Can Get Right now..

[@thisisfel1x]

@@erg999 true, the performance especially on the R edition is undeniable with that price, the sound makes me feel much much better than wooting as well!! Shout out to MAD

[@LshowKnows]

I never understood the "Its the price of a monthly Spotify sub if you do the math!" logic. Wooting is too expensive for the average consumer, and the average consumers are mostly casual gamers who dont want to drop 1/4 of their salary (obvs depends on the country) on a keyboard. We get our paychecks at the end of the month, those 5 bucks are part of the small amount you get to keep to yourself after paying for your necessities, its a small expense you can afford at that time and will do you better than a keyboard. The average person can´t just throw 200 bucks at once like it´s nothing unless they´re saving, and if you gonna save 5 bucks every month to buy a Wooting it would take you forever.

[@SquashyBoy]

nah thats girl math, any casual gamer should go for a cheaper option

[@HimmyHendryx]

then dont get a wooting 💀💀💀

[@v_AsT]

@@HimmyHendryx exactly. I literally don't understand why people are complaining about the price. Obviously, people that can actually afford the fucking board, are the only people that will be buying it. If you can't buy it AND YOU KNOW you can't buy... don't fucking buy it 💀. That's literally the only thing people complain about the wooting, the price. Other than that, it's an excellent KB. Just because YOU can't buy it doesn't mean it's a bad kb.

[@makmakg242]

​​@@v_AsT"Oh look how rich I am flaunting my $200 plastic keyboard that peons will never get" get off that pompous high horse of yours. It's one thing that the product works, its another when you charge the price way higher than the ordinary ones while having no noticeable changes to the cheaper boards.

[@LshowKnows]

@@HimmyHendryx Brother, can you actually read or didn´t they teach you basic reading comprehension in school? Cause swear to god some of you just get so defensive that you can´t even take the time to actually read what´s in front of you, instead you just prefer to have a mental breakdown

[@kasamo]

you need to review the MCHOSE 60 HE. its so much better quality than the Mad60 HE, im not sure why the mad60 got all the popularity rather than the mchose60.

[@speedlegends482]

I also believe Mchose is better, but I think the mad60 is getting more attention because it's a wooting clone.

[@piece5613]

You mean the Mchose Ace 60 Pro my friend, i have one here and bro this keyboard is so amazing ;) I have the Mad 60 He Ultimate also here but the Ace 60 Pro is on another level ! ;)

[@orbanaron9794]

Im new to keyboards, so I dont have a lot of experience if its worth to buy a pricey keyboard like the wooting 60 he, in your oppinion would it be more worth to buy a more budget like the Mchose Ace 60 Pro which outperforms the Wooting. Or Im not sure if it outperforms the Wooting.

[@bositirana1239]

Better quality better performance yes but I depends on who is buying it , you can't disable continuous rapid trigger on mchose ace 60 so if you don't like that feature being on, mad 60 he is good options of course you can get other keyboards but you will need to spend more mone

[@lesscry0]

4:28 The Nano68 is actually their newest keyboard, maybe ur confusing it with the fire68 which came out before the mad60he.

[@Diablo76i]

i dont think so the newest one is the fire68 check their website

[@wolspring]

@@Diablo76i re-read the comment pal

[@Zack-Strife]

@@Diablo76i nope. I follow the HE scene of China and the Fire68 comes well before the MAD60. The Nano68 appears only a month ago

[@Mechstalol]

I understand not buying a keyboard because of the sketchiness of the clone and stuff. That’s why I will probably not buy this board. But all the people replying to others who have bought it negatively, just stop. Just because you spent $200 on a keyboard that you could now get for one fifth of the price doesn’t mean no one else should buy it.

[@SquashyBoy]

yea if you can put the questionable reliability aside, its a really good buy tbh

[@Mechstalol]

@SquashyBoy omg squashy boy reply

[@Tekzi_]

Wooting literally said “we lost to these mfs but please buy our products”

[@Robnate]

No, they said they would rather work on a different product which is better than taking a lawsuit. The reason being is because taking a lawsuit in china sucks horribly and I don't blame them at all.

[@sagirem]

Why do you think all these knock offs come from China, it's impossible to sue them

[@erisium6988]

@@Robnate if they wouldnt make it unrealisticly expensive it wouldnt be even a issue, they make 4x more the price for same shit plastic keeb with pcb and switches that arent nothing special.

[@Robnate]

@@erisium6988 Its not the same, build quality will last and actually has good features. The knockoff has none of that. Sure it can be cheaper but they gotta make money somehow

[@amr1t_]

... seriously that was your takeaway from that? bro be fr lmao

[@khoinguyen-cc3mo]

When i saw this keyboard, i had the same reaction as you too lol “At that price, they needed to have something up their sleeve to pay back that price” Thanks for the very informative review, i was considering to buy it^^

[@nearo007]

What are the downsides exactly? Besides the moral aspect, it's literally better than Wooting for what, 1/5 of the price?

[@khoinguyen-cc3mo]

@ uhhhh, even on the highest model of this board, from the reviews I’ve seen, it still doesn’t beat the wooting in terms of performance Idk, you may have more experience than me so i may be wrong haha

[@nearo007]

@@khoinguyen-cc3mo from what I've seen, it has better switches, sounds better (cuz the switch is sealed underneath), and lower actuation point for rapid trigger (0.02mm), so in terms of specs it is better. I don't have one myself (I have the raven68 which is very similar to the mad68), so I can't say for experience tho

[@floureszenz]

@@nearo007 its not better, coming from someone who has both keyboards!! i even have the 8k flagship one and a normal wooting 60he+, the latency difference is huge idk about you but i play valorant professionally and i can very much feel the difference, wootility is a great software that is much better then the madlion one, not to mention that the wooting keeps on getting better with amazing software updates/firmware updates which i can guarantee some random chinese company is not gonna give a flying f about.

[@user-tt8ln8fm8s]

@@khoinguyen-cc3mo idk why u think a 20 dollar kb will have better performance

[@Pretzelina.]

5:23 so proud of you for drawing that

[@jiaantariq1516]

If someone can make the same thing cheaper then what's wrong? It's like saying a random brand copying the style of a jacket from Louis Vitton but selling it for like 20 bucks whereas LV is 2000 bucks, if you can get the same thing for cheaper it's always great, keeps the market competitive and there's no monopoly, consumer access becomes easier, new people would be much more interested to join in instead of spending 150+ dollars

[@M1jlann]

It is (borderline) illegal bro, same thing with pandabuy, that shit got shut down. If you can make a keyboard that has its own twist to it and not a exact copy it is a different story.

[@afootballgenius]

One thing that is worth more than $20 is actual support and guarantees. What happens if your madlions breaks or if they decide to not update it anymore. Also on your point about make the same thing but cheaper is shows in the Wooting statement. Madlions can make it so cheap because they don't have any r&d costst while Wooting has to invest a lot to create new things. So that is the thing that is wrong. If they could make their own design and own marketing for $20 it would be a different story!

[@gianngernale36]

thing is, its not the "same thing", it definitely IS CHEAPER, but it isn't the same thing. There are other things you need to consider when factoring in the price of the item, not just the product itself. Sure, it'll give you the same functionalities of the real thing, but as wooting said, how long would it last as compared to the real thing? The video mentions one of the quality downsides of the thing, a lesser quality plastic may mean it could break faster under heavy use. The PCB could also be of lesser quality, with lesser quality ICs and capacitors, QC issues could also be more prevalent with the cheaper product, warranty coverage/ duration and how easy it is to contact the company for it, and lastly as Wooting also mentioned, the lack of innovation and progress. Being an outright plagiarized product means it brings nothing new to the table, they cut on R&D costs as well. All these together is enough reason for other people to buy products such as wooting even if it mean shelling out a bit more, and hence why plagiarized products will bring nothing to the table, not even "Market Competition".

[@SquashyBoy]

i never said it was wrong, i just said its scummy. oh btw if wooting patented their designs, then yes its wrong to copy the case 1 for 1.

[@mao5473]

if cheaper copycat = good, then no ones is going design anymore and no one will willing to create something new. all the market or company will just wait for other person to create a new things and copy it with cheaper price. Also, the price get lower, the quality gets lower too. I do agree and support it at some point that luxury product are overpriced and it doesn't come with the value and the quality sometimes. But still, copy other's product totally is unethical and its illegal in all around the world. Like what happened in university, do some effort and edit on your assignment and not just copy and paste other's works. Both "copy and paste" and "copy and add some ideas and spice on it" looks similar but its completely different in ethic and legal perspective

[@KeebClack]

i saw this on taobao, and I'm so happy squashy made a vid on it!

[@gorgnof]

One thing I would worry about is that, since you can only (?) configure it from the website, if the company shuts down, aren't you kinda out of luck?

[@SquashyBoy]

yea

[@speedlegends482]

I know that ATK (main brand) has web drived and actual software, but idk if Madlions will do that.

[@maozedowner5915]

So does Wooting, so does every other website based configurator.

[@WolfGame_304]

Remeber you have option aside from web based driver to download file of driver in .bat extencion so that is the last resort if company go bye bye

[@flascowo]

you can run the web software locally

[@MyriadEdits]

i bit the bullet and got my wooting 60he+ it opens up a world of customization you would never have, so im very happy with my purchase, if their are any other keyboards that can do this and do it well, lemme know

[@tudorlabadin9446]

I like this video, but I don't agree with the whole sentiment about plagiarism. Sure, Wooting came first and they found massive success marketing as a keyboard that gives you a competitive advantage, but they did not invent the hall effect switch, they did not invent the 60% keyboard layout, their design isn't 100% unique either. If they did something that only they have done and no one else, then I'd understand the backlash. Competition is good. The fact that another company can price a similar spec'd keyboard at a quarter of the price speaks volumes about how big of a profit margin wooting has. Sure you could argue wooting could potentially have higher production costs, but 4x the price?? No man. As a consumer we are naturally drawn to cheaper prices. Competition is good because consumers buy the cheaper/better value'd product, and that brings the prices of those goods down since companies need to make money. It's been going on for as long as we'd had money. Who cares if this is a knockoff, for our own benefit we'd want keyboards to overall be cheaper. If you review keyboards as a full time job, you wouldn't understand how much $200 really is to the average teenager who's looking to get into keyboards.

[@SquashyBoy]

They didn’t invent the layout nor the switch. But, if you can’t tell it apart when you layer it over Photoshop, I think it’s quite clear they copied. But yes, Wooting is expensive, and I think the only argument that can be made that their keyboards are expensive is that they put time and effort into their R&D and advertisements. But I personally don’t think that it’s worth the money if you are just a casual gamer. It’s just that a lot of community members right now are looking for a Wooting specifically, and therefore they buy it. And I totally understand that $200 is expensive for a casual gamer. There’s a reason I recommend other cheaper alternatives in the video. I mainly just wanted to tell the audience that there are cheaper alternatives to Wooting on the market as of now and not three years ago, when it was still expensive to find alternatives.

[@nathanhollow0]

If you lay over all other reputable 60% layout keebs, they don't really match 100%. Similar, but not 100% blatant exact copy like what madlions did. That's the difference between "inspired" and "plagiarized"

[@Texas-1126]

Im really happy to see others reviewing this keyboard, i really love it bcs its cheap, reliable, has 8000hz polling rate on the 60% which is why i think its really worth buying

[@goldy_on_pc930]

Wooting is is almost 4 years old and they are selling for the same price, the mad60 by the looks of it probably is coming out of the same factory and using the same tooling as its really hard to make a such a n exact copy without this being the case. Wooting has already recovered their RnD and marketing costs but they are still selling it for what it originally did, this keyboard probably cost 25-29$ to produce, if Wooting is gonna be greedy and still keep the costs up even after 4 years than its fair game for these smaller companies to compete, also good chance mad is just the brand owned by the factory that’s making the keyboard

[@JakubixIsHere]

Wooting is almost 10yr old. Also mad uses case files from wooting github. And mad is made in same factory as atk vge etc. Wooting is made in diffrent factory which is not sharing stuff

[@ifiwiwould]

Squashy should do a Shoppee haul

[@Buizie]

Blew all my budget on a fumo I ordered months ago so this could be a great alternative (for now) for the wooting

[@fcantil]

average 2hu fan

[@Buizie]

@@fcantil it's not even a 2hu fumo 😭 it's an ibuki fumo 😭😭😭😭😭

[@LiDAF69]

Irony part is that wooting doesn't ship or sell their keyboards to my country but mad lion does it. For that reason hats off to mad lions.😂

[@Haru_no_ki]

Funny how wooting is worse in terms of stock sound, both in switch sound and stabs sound. They most likely use the same factory as wooting

[@SquashyBoy]

nah its not the same factory, and the sound is due to the closed back switches. similar sounding switches are the geon raws and the gat jade pros. Doesnt excuse the stock stabs on the wooting tho.

[@Rotasu_]

I'm sure these are super important to gaming keyboards xd.

[@speedlegends482]

@Rotasu_ I mean, it's better to have good stabs, especially for a high end keyboard like Wooting.

[@yrmosi]

@@Rotasu_dude with that price for a 60% board it should be expected that the product is near flawless

[@EpaYaAlgoDoGenero]

@@yrmosi and it is lol, the "satisfactory noise" that the keyboard makes is their least priority, and they still managed to make it VERY good.

[@befeaux]

As an owner of the Wooting 60HE, I can recognize the overpricing on Wooting's part, the wage disadvantages of other countries, and the need for technological accessibility at all income levels. People can and should be allowed to support the cheaper product to even out the playing field so that more "well-off" gamers don't gatekeep special features. I disagree with the blatant copying of the Wooting's design and branding, but I guess it satisfies those who want a "Wooting style" keyboard. Honestly, I bought the Wooting 60HE (way before the Mad60HE came out) for the brand name, reliable software, and company transparency. I cannot speak for everyone. All I can say is that I am blessed to be in my current position, and I wish everyone can achieve their own success and fulfillment in life. ❤🙏

[@zvt9]

it's honestly a bit misleading that MAD Lions and Madlions have the same name. the first one is a spanish esports org and the other is a chinese brand that's focused on making knockoff products and is unrelated to the MAD Lions esports org.

[@charles.3187]

I took the housing off of my corsair K 68 RGB years ago and it's been running like that for the majority of the time I've owned it and it works 👍

[@manwows5597]

Feels like a wooting PR video. Didn't even compare the specs of both keyboard.

[@SquashyBoy]

It’s a good keyboard at a moral cost. There’s nothing more to say really.

[@sagirem]

Brother he mentioned them all

[@manwows5597]

@sagirem oh yeah? Question then. From the video alone, what switches does the mad60he use?

[@manwows5597]

​@sagirem also, on the video description he only links to alternative keyboard not the mad60he. Another trick he did was this weird segment of checking for viruses to dissuade people from buying the mad60he even more. This video is so fun biased and it's 100% not a "review ".

[@enderfevzi4093]

​@@manwows5597bro hes just carefull??? Overall its a hella cheap product from china wheres the problem and he doesnt support the keyboard so naturally he woulent say more to it???

[@Xpiiiiii]

This convinced me to buy the mad 60he

[@t3mpban]

I never buy chinese knockoffs but I copped the 8k version and its a steal. Even though it the polling rate isnt as advertised, its still better than most other HE keyboarda like drunkdeer and apex pro (its also pretty dang close to the wooting) so its a really great entry-level keyboard.

[@ultramasterultra5724]

its not better than those its the exact same they are all basically the same except wooting which is slightly better

[@digim3l]

Why is wooting better?​@@ultramasterultra5724

[@ecid1008]

I got the Fire68 recently i also have the 60he wooting. And i can say that the fire68 feels way better, sounds better. And is more then double the price of the wooting. Insane how they can squize so much bang for your buck definitely recommend it.

[@AbuBakir0]

the mad 68 R is even better than the fire68, i love madlions theyre amazing

[@markr90]

is the nano68 the best madlion product?

[@mybyyy348]

from a consumer's perspective, it's always nice to have something that can be produced at a much cheaper price. plagiarism? there is no such thing as pure "NEW" in this world. so if you want to protect your design, just patent it. like cherry did with all the cost they paid for it over the years. the statement "So all the effort, money and stress going into a lawsuit is better spent on improving our products." come to a sufficient conclusion. it show how you value your own design. business is business, why does the community have to fight to defend certain companies. making a fuss in the community certainly won't solve the core problem, right?

[@makmakg242]

Making a fuss about it DOES makes a difference due to how Wooting is transparent online, reading all the internet articles and threads unlike most businesses. And while i'm not gonna buy their keyboard until I have a job that gives me $1000 per month, atleast they're aware of the competitors, that's for sure.

[@mybyyy348]

@ what difference? is it make the wooting “clone” stop their business? or only to show wooting as a brand that “aware”? okay wooting is aware but doesn't want to take real action, doesn't that show wooting only value its own product to that level? why community have to defend their product when the brand it self doesnt “care” that much? but as a consumer personally idgaf haha only see that wooting makin lots money that the cost of their board is at this low. hall effect isnt that “new” anwy

[@koswimmer1]

what’s more ethical? sell a product at a price that’s waaay inflated or at a price that’s just enough to make profit?

[@JakubixIsHere]

Well they do second thing at wooting

[@Psicoverz]

If these people can make the ducking same keyboard for 1/10th the price, frankly I don't care that it's plagarism.

[@JakubixIsHere]

Case is only the same everything else is oem

[@Condred]

If you're looking for another very cheap magnetic keyboard with a more original design, you can try the Ajazz AK680 Max. It's similarly priced to the Madlions board. Haven't seen any reviews yet though since it's a new product

[@panquemadol]

wooting deleted their comment? why?

[@Sujay95]

lol yeah they did. probably cuz people were roasting them in the replies for their overpriced keyboards 😂

[@riozero96]

isn't it just have the same ODM, so it basically the same, just have different quality depends on the brand request.

[@fedor7818]

Yeah, plagiarism is bad, but 180 euro for kb with plastic case is completely delusional

[@SquashyBoy]

true

[@JakubixIsHere]

Like 80% of keyboard is module and software

[@enderforces7013]

agree. Wooting build quality is garbage compared to the price. Like the 80HE zinc alloy board is still not that great and it costs 300 bucks. WHAT? Mediocre keycaps, Sub par HE switches. Like to upgrade a wooting to actual enthusiast level quality you need at least 40 bucks or even more of quality keycaps and a set of gateron jades (best HE keycaps supported by wooting boards, according to most people). 45 bucks. To sum up, to upgrade a wooting to enthusiast level you need at LEAST 400 bucks. It's luxury level price for something that should just be a normal level of good. And i didn't even account for mod prices. Like it's a joke come on. Personally i'm getting myself a keychron Q1HE and i'm swapping out switches and keycaps. The only con that i was able to identify after scowring through countless threads is that the software is very slightly less optimized than wooting. But everything else is an undisputed pro. And we're talking keychron, not an HE one trick pony at all.

[@JakubixIsHere]

@enderforces7013 you know keychron only support their switches right

[@JoeL-jg4pj]

I’m new to the whole keyboard and pc setup things but the way i see the 60he is that it’s basically a cheaper alternative if you want a wooting, I didn’t know keyboards could have malware😭 but thanks for this vid

[@mokad]

yeah cool change your title then 0:14

[@Wyn3e]

The title refers to what people call it not what it is mfs blind

[@Terrmmy]

bro edited this comment and still didn't rack his brain

[@Baner27]

It's in quotes 💀

[@aetnma]

omg thank you for making this video, literally asked for it in ur previous video lol

[@peanutarchives]

While I agree that this is a scummy practice in the industry, people like me who are in the lower class and earn about $300 a month can't afford a Wooting. Like you said there are alternatives to a HE keyboard but it still depends on the availability of the product (NuPhy), the performance, and if it's going to use software that could possibly harm your PC (Ajazz). And I don't want to compromise. Don't get me wrong I love Wooting, I wanted the keyboard years ago the first time on Optimum's channel, and I'm very grateful for their innovation in the gaming space. I have a massive passion for esports, gaming, content creation, and tech, and that made me create my channel, unfortunately, it's not sustainable for me to run my channel since I got in debt doing content. I did try reaching out to peripheral brands for review units but no one was willing to work with me, not even Wooting. So with this Mad60HE being $20, not having to install software and performing almost the same as Wooting is a great option for people like me who barely have any disposable income.

[@Omar-kw5ui]

For the testing part of the video, it would be good if you run wireshark, and a key-logger to monitor both internet traffic and keystrokes over a period of time. The keyboard could be programmed to contact a server to receive "firmware" (malware). It can also be deployed with a keylogger that logs your keystrokes to get credentials, and from there run terminal scripts to download further software that can hijack your computer simply to become a crypto-mining node. The possibilities are endless.

[@Sh1v44]

Mine delivering in 3 days😀

[@theelite2351]

same :D

[@luxcsuz]

I WAS WAITING FOR U TO MAKE THE VIDEO ABOTU THIS KEYBOARD

[@clapnir]

You should rather ask Wooting about the total production cost of the keyboard and then inquire about the profit margin. Once you see that, you'll realize how misguided you are.

[@SquashyBoy]

I think you’re just clueless on how products are priced. It’s not just for raw material cost, rather for the R&D, the marketing, the software, etc that being said, I do also think it’s priced at a real premium as other companies are making far cheaper keyboards with the same performance.

[@clapnir]

@@SquashyBoy dude i think you have no clue with all together what you said the fucking wooting will not be over 50$ in price what for premium

[@50shadesofblack-s4w]

​@@SquashyBoy ​​ since u keep saying wooting has R&D costs let me enlighten u wooting is not inventing something every year and it didn't even made the hall effect thing either. they just made it popular that's it. wooting is not apple. not to mention wooting keyboards are also made in china so the making cost is very low. making a wooting 60he probably costs 15-20 USD at most. now to the marketing part which is mostly their twitter posts lmao. i would rather buy a iqunix or atk he keyboard than wooting.

[@SquashyBoy]

I see, thanks for clarifying.

[@AndreTheGian.t]

Can you show us your main keyboard that you use everyday

[@M1jlann]

The madlions really surprised me for its price point. I bought it to compare it to my Wooting 60he for shits and giggles. I do like the way that it comes in white instead of just black (fits my setup better). After comparing both, I will have to say that the madlions sounds good straight out the box but comparing the software and specs it is such a big win for Wooting. Id rather have a Wooting for a bit more money and knowing that it will have amazing software and continued updates than spending less on a questionable ripoff that wont be updated after like 2 weeks.

[@Mr-R.R.]

Don't EVER say "a bit more money" when comparing a $50 keyboard to a $250+ one. This is clear buyer's remorse lol

[@kokorocrunch6615]

allat spend a bit more money just to be gold is crazy

[@M1jlann]

@@kokorocrunch6615 I build keyboards as a hobby, I know I’ll still be shit in the end 😂

[@kraenovt]

madlions does update their firmware tho

[@Mr-R.R.]

@@kraenovt don't worry, these people think madlions is a random Chinese company that definitely hasn't been around and consistent for a while now lol

[@ZenTunE-]

If I didn't hate not having arrow keys, I would definitely snag this at that price, just to get a feel for a hall effect board.

[@seibertron500]

there's a 68 key version that has arrow keys

[@theoxninja9693]

just buy the mad68 or the fire one

[@nearo007]

raven68 has arrow keys, 0.02 Rapid Trigger and 8k hz. It was definetely worth it for me.

[@ZenTunE-]

@@nearo007 I wonder if that would fit in my Tofu65, might consider that if it does 🤔

[@ZenTunE-]

@@seibertron500 60€ free shipping, pretty tempting. Gonna have to get used to no VIA though.

[@brandrnelson1096]

At this point if you’re gonna get a wooting you’re just buying it for the name. I’d rather spend 40$ then 180$ for the exact same product but just different names😂

[@enderfevzi4093]

Problem its not the sane product sad right😢

[@Riyoe]

Ok honestly let wooting cook, they've been pretty based about their (and other) products and either way they will still be the first thought that comes to your head when rapid trigger is mentioned so they basically won

[@itayraviv2422]

Malware? Bro what are you on about.

[@AutoJay]

Yeah idk that was weird

[@FireworkRyota]

​@@AutoJay From what I've understood, when a device gets infected with malware, that malware copies itself to all other devices attached, even components such as your Motherboard (although I do feel that's an exaggeration). As such, while I'm not sure, some people play it safe with unknown USB devices, regardless of if they're not storage devices. I hope this helped a bit, and I'm sorry if it's not a good reply, I tried :(

[@sawgiie]

he jus playin it extra safe that's not a problem

[@Sujay95]

he's trying extra hard to shill for wooting and brand names so he can get sponsored. So it's in his interest to heavily imply in his vids that cheap price competitive products as this one are virus/malware infested so they buy grossly overpriced wooting and brand name products which do the same thing as the $20 thing.

[@Eclipse-u9d]

​@@Sujay95 imagine being that desperate lmao

[@deltahl]

In Brazil, it's impossible to get a Wooting keyboard without paying a fortune. The import tax is 60% on amounts over $50, and on top of that, you still have to pay a "goods circulation tax" to the state you live in. In the end, you're buying one keyboard for yourself and another for the government. Clone keyboards are a good alternative because, although not exactly cheap, they are less expensive and nearly just as good. Wooting keyboards would only be affordable if the parts were imported here with a low declared value, and a local company assembled and sold them to avoid import taxes.

[@Grimmblazee]

so what i got out of this was that i should just buy the cheaper one and a braided cord and some sound dampening matting to insert and it will feel BETTER than the wooting? i mean it willl deff sound better . im actually in market i cant let go of my g910 orion help! def dont want a 60 tho need full size or TKL . i DO also like dedicated media controls. recommendations accepted ( maybe wireless so i can lose my extra keyboard in the sim seat, ) i dont like half caps either . i like assignable rgb as well for my sim driving games. and flight sims.

[@ADHDmeds]

bro watched you when you use to play osu, and you have branched out proud of you dawg good shit

[@SquashyBoy]

thanks bro, you a real one 👊

[@Num2OuO]

this kind of blatant plagiarism feels so weird to me cuz iirc those people has probably the most unique looking mouse out there, with pretty good reputation too. Why would they ever done this is beyond me

[@Cauadb]

In Brazil, it is way better to buy the MAD60HE than the Wooting. The MAD60HE costs around 60 dollars with tax, while the Wooting is about 400 dollars due to taxes, which is around 2,500 BRL.

[@victorc1293]

Realmente, meu mad 68 he ri dos wooting pauladão

[@whoisAPT38]

Wooting will always be goated with customer service and W statement from them, hoping to get a wooting soon

[@arseao]

Whats better 80 or 60 he

[@whoisAPT38]

@arseao the 80he since it's 8000hz instead of the 60he being 1k I believe, the difference isnt much so unless you prefer the layout or are going pro in a game then just get the 60he

[@wc.d]

​@@whoisAPT38 why would anybody get a wooting if theyre not gonna go pro in a game

[@whoisAPT38]

@wc.d why would anyone buy a Lamborghini if they're not gonna speed, because it's nice to have

[@wc.d]

@@whoisAPT38 the difference is huge between a keyboard and a Lamborghini

[@daigal1]

If you buy the flagship madlions its 80$ (not so cheap as 20$ but 1/2 $ then an wooting ) but probably you will not get 4y warranty / support for your keyboard for sure and the performance isnt the same and the numbers they sell to you they are false the 8khz keyboard its more like 760hz (not even close to 1k) and the 1khz its more like 500hz .

[@davidddo]

what? you call it "the $20 wooting clone" in the title but in the video you literally instantly say that its actually not $20? What the hell is even the point then. I don't get it man

[@kylesanders9543]

He was saying that people were telling him to try this board showing comments of people saying it's $20, it's probably become popularised as the "$20 wooting" cause a bunch of people apparently got it for $20

[@SquashyBoy]

what kyle said^

[@davidddo]

@kylesanders9543 why not put quotation marks then? It literally just says the $20 wooting clone as if he's stating it

[@SquashyBoy]

ive changed that, thanks

[@chemus9217]

i knew this was coming after seeing all the other reviews

[@user-oe1nt4pp8n]

They're only copying the outer shell. Better keyboard with better sound at $50 is far better value than any Wooting. Although I don't condone plagiarism, I see this as a win for consumers which will ultimately drive competition and hopefully lower the entry into hall effect keyboards and make it mainstream.

[@SquashyBoy]

I can't deny, it's true, and that is a good thing.

[@JATDPLUS]

Honestly they are just making other peoples keyboards cheaper just shows how come companies make you pay premium for things that really don’t matter overall

[@pRick7734]

Is it really scummy practices if the customer wins? All i'm hearing from this video is "Can't say something bad about western companies otherwise i won't get sponsored with their products in the future"...

[@SquashyBoy]

It’s scummy if you’ve experienced it before. I had my keyboard designs leaked to a Chinese company before, and it’s a HORRIBLE feeling knowing I spent close to $2000 on designs just for it to be yoinked for nothing. But yeah, the consumer wins, right? So we should be happy. Also, how is any of this got to do with sponsors? I point out illegal conduct, and it’s somehow related to my sponsors?

[@nathanhollow0]

Apple uses child labor to mine their copper. It's scummy and they're torturing kids but in the end you get your iphone, so who cares really, right?

[@TyCottle]

so your telling me that wooting is even cooler than they already were

[@inviszero]

If it's "OK" and cheap then why shouldn't I buy it

[@sSangkan]

It's copying wooting, and it's unethical, also they lied about the polling rate. If you want hall effect keyboard there are alternatives with almost the same price, like Ajazz ak820 (he mentioned it in the video) is literally 4$ cheaper than madlions

[@nikewray]

just realized that this company is related to ATK, VXE and VGN. that's sad because those companies' mouse are so damn good for its price.

[@nikewray]

btw, in addition to squashy's HE recommendation, there's also the "Everglide AE68" (they have been making switches for years), or something from "Drunkdeer"

[@hinchlikescake7592]

Eh I have the VXE Mad R and Mad68 R and they're a great combo. Paid under $100 for both. And they're pretty much endgame until something breaks. Maybe these companies can stop ripping off their customers with 'gamer' prices and tax.

[@Zack-Strife]

20usd is true if you can get it from Shopee or Taobao

[@kcxrickygaming5262]

Why not just change the title to $40 keyboard? misleading and clickbaity for the sake of being 'quirky'.

[@ry7hym]

fits quite well together with the Mad R gaming mouse

[@renkirigasaki]

as a customer, especially on a 3rd world country, i dont really care about ethical thingy. Yes its scummy, but if its better and cheaper, then who cares. If you cant compete, you dead as a company. Imagine a chinese company copying your product and make it better and cheaper. Also that wooting statement is a mess

[@ihaveakrazyheart]

$20 is for the 1k version which they stopped now and now all the keyboard variations are 8k, just switch and case differences

[@sabel_yt]

i bought and used the nano68 and all i got to say it's so money worth, sorry melgeek but your shit is too expensive, nano 68 is not only super super cheap *compared to melgeek* and the quality is super good which is hard to find in cloning other products

[@PhuUh]

For some reason I like the copy sound test better than the actual 60He

[@SquashyBoy]

it does sound better

[@JakubixIsHere]

It does not, due to hollowness he switch is too high pitched

[@SquashyBoy]

It does. not even counting switches because that is subjective; the stabilizers have less rattle.

[@balotellitubbies5997]

Straight out copying wooting is bad, but when it comes to Chinese companies copying each other just lmao wfc, I’m sure Chinese consumers will just buy the cheaper one as well without caring about ethical and shit

[@SquashyBoy]

yea youre 100% right. shout out to my ancestors

[@ramennnoodle]

It's probably worth mentioning that not every Chinese company is built equally (ironic, I know), same with Chinese consumers. Wealth inequality is still a huge problem in China so a lot of less developed areas simply don't make high enough wages to care about ethics when buying stuff, price would matter most for them

[@noobienoob8977]

some good budget options are… 1: mchose ace60/68 2: irok nd63 3: aula win60he

[@manwows5597]

And... the mad60he.

[@noobienoob8977]

@ i mean for him to review

[@Sujay95]

WOOTING DELETED THEIR COMMENT!!! 😂 HAHAHA HUGE L

[@JakubixIsHere]

Or it was deleted by squshy

[@Sujay95]

@@JakubixIsHere nah... Wooting themselves must have deleted it cuz people were calling them out for their insanely high prices.

[@GalaxyEnderPro]

Are you sure wooting deleted their comment?

[@Sujay95]

@@GalaxyEnderPro yes

[@mikemeyer5973]

Why does a keyboard need a wrist strap? You gonna carry it around town?

[@erg999]

I am Not with you here. i like madlions for the fact that they copy the wooting and Sell it Cheaper.. and the Statement from wooting was horrible.. the Fake wooting has the same quality and even Sounds better.. and if the keyboard was Bad (Like they indirectly said) im sure the Company is Going to fail.. no one wants to waste Money on a product that is Not Going to work even if it is small Money.. Wooting has such a good name in the Keyboard Scene, that the Price they Are selling the Keyboard is Not Even mentioned once.. i even remember People hating on the rog ace hfx just on the fact its 200€.. even tho its like 10x better than the wooting in every way.. but yet Both are the Same Price... I have the same vibe here.

[@SquashyBoy]

I think you’re missing the point. This is not a matter of “the better keyboard” rather an illegal case of copyright infringement. also yes the asus rog hfx is better than any of these keyboards and is probably my favourite feeling hall effect keyboard rn.

[@erg999]

@SquashyBoy I Get Your Point.. it is illegal and not ethical to Copy something - put your Brand on it- and Sell it.. but at the same time.. it doesnt make sense that the wooting costs 200€.. as you Reviewed yourself.. madlion literally sells the Same product (imo even better) for 3 times less… This just screams to Copy it and Sell it for Cheaper... In my opinion selling the wooting for 200€ is more unethical than copying one and selling it for cheaper…

[@SquashyBoy]

I think the reason behind the Wooting price is because they had to R&D the keyboard, plan out the whole process, and market it. And Madlions skips all the steps till the selling and profiting part. But I agree with you, the Wooting price is a HUGE premium. If we are talking raw materials alone, I think they are upcharging a butt ton. But at least they are a nice company to the community, ig. A perfect world would be the Wooting 60he (a 3-year-old keyboard) priced at $80 because it is still just a plastic keyboard. But oh well

[@erg999]

@@SquashyBoy 👍👍

[@flyingleehaii]

in Vietnam, we can actually have it for 20-25$. I wonder what does it cost in China, where it is made

[@noobienoob8977]

99 yuan for base model

[@InkLyned]

and i just bought a drunkdeer as well

[@ReidAstrea]

fr same but I think DD sounds better than both personally

[@Gav548]

​@@ReidAstreai agree unfortunately i missed out on when they were selling the g65(?) for half price on amazon 😭😭😭

[@Wyn3e]

@@ReidAstreaDD is just worse and firmware have bricked peoples keyboard

[@septFPS]

Bro i beg to you for a review of Mchose Ace 60 Pro with Uranus Switches (seems to be an insane keyboard, and also budget LIKE WTF)

[@Jadrienn]

owned a wooting for 6 months and it starterd failing me, bought a mad60he and havnt had a problem in over 8 monthe, build feels almost the same quaslity besides the keycaps ive replaced, socd is great, limitless key software, dont buy wooting 👍

[@yomsicle]

"MadLions" Welcome back Mad Catz!