The 4 Biggest Flat Serve Myths & What You Should be Doing Instead

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Becker, Lendl, Wilander and McEnroe talk about the current state of the serve on the ATP tour (17 min mark) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKbScp6kiJdspqM

[@gillesderais834]

thanks for the link, it was good fun to watch!

[@cruzanstx]

@@bournejason66 - My two cents of old man observations, please forgive my climbing on the soap box. Little bad habits can become difficult body issues over decades. A new pound each year over 40 holidays, eating junk, body abuses, not exercising, little things are easy to let slip, hard to fix later. I'm 70 and still try to do my future self a favor and don't let it slip. Aged bodies have enough to deal with without partly preventable things like diabetes, damaged joints, low lung capacity, weak heart, bad flexibility, poor balance.... I love tennis more than bad habits so daily choices are a bit easier.

[@soofitnsexy]

@@cruzanstx i know people over 30 who got outta shape...its so ez! constant parties social events late night eating etc

[@tijgertjekonijnwordopgegeten]

​@@soofitnsexy I know people who are out of shape at age 20, it happens if you just don't exercise.

[@charlesdang2557]

Nick, another great video. Instructions were clear and directly usable. My only wish was to have learned from your videos 20 years ago. I'm still very fortunate to have access to them now. Thanks, man!

[@siddarthdutta3974]

Coach Nik, I'm also a tennis coach myself and I absolutely love watching your videos because I learn so much on how to improve my own coaching technique but I'm also glad to see that your techniques are ones I use myself! I'd like to say great minds think alike, because I literally just came back from a tennis lesson where I used the Tsitsipas example as someone who has a great serve but could be optimized if he adjusted the ball toss. Your videos are amazing!

[@cruzanstx]

Over the years I've watched many online serve videos, taken lessons, and practiced serve a lot. Niks lessons are by far, very far, the best and have helped me tremendously. I tell everyone I know - Forget the rest, study Intuitive Tennis. Once again, a great video. Can't wait to get out and try some flats. Thank you!

[@chongsun7872]

OMG, I have been making the mistake of snap wrist for all the years.... thanks Nick for the explanation!!

[@pronation888]

thx for revealing about the wrist snap, i did that for 1-2 weeks then took a month to recover. And also about the position of ball.

[@K4R3N]

Yeah Nik, when I returned to playing tennis I practiced my kick serve the entire summer of 2020 so much that it is my first and second serve. Only very recently have I begun trying to develop a true flat serve. The percentage is low right now so it's not dependable in match play

[@jamesmurphy2304]

You are an excellent coach. Love your tips on serve

[@AlexanderMayorov]

With a lot of arguments, samples and surveys as usual! Thanks a lot

[@joshuabelt4278]

This guy is Great, enjoy everyone of your videos, I so wish i had your videos when I was first learning, I'm sure my game would have been better 10 fold!! Great Job! I feel my game improving as I am applying your techniques. I just have to shake the bad habits I created in my game lol

[@ldeue4837]

Something that helped me out on my flat service was making sure to get the ball out in front of me, and make sure I'm landing in the court and not falling off to the left or the right. It's been a tricky transition, as I am trying to get my kick to a reliable place....but you do slowly lose the feel for your flatter serves.....I tell myself that if i get the ball as far into the court as I can, I have less distance to clear the net lol.

[@Xunxunism]

Happy to learn my serve grip has a name Australian grip. I tried very hard to be perfect continental grip as it is said to be the correct one. But somehow it is always a bit awkward for me. Moving a little bit to the forehand side made the grip more natural for me.

[@kennrayy]

Excellent. I’ve recently mastered my slice ( 2nd serve) and now on to getting this flat serve down. Very well explained

[@pl4851]

Niko, A great video true to the problem about wrist issue... I don't snap wrist but do twist it during the serve which does create and give me wrist pains all the time (again out currently for about 2 weeks now). I know what I'm doing wrong but cannot correct myself, been trying to change my serve to do it correctly as it is at fault with current technique I have... hard to change old bad habit but trying it slowly... learnt a lot from your previous videos in specific areas that I needed...thanks for the priceless video instructions... they are truly priceless.

[@raresticks]

Nick, another fine serve myth discussion. To be honest I see very little PURE flat serving at the competitive club levels or elite levels for that matter. Yes, lower level recreational players will serve flat by sub optimally slowing down the swing speed to bring the ball down into the court and this breaks their motion in other ways. Another exception are tall players (6'2" or greater). They have a naturally high contact point and can indeed be successful with a pure flat serve because the angle of deflection off the court is so effective. Beyond these two groups I see mostly hybrid serves. Most typically a "flattened" slice. Indeed I find that most receivers will experience more problems dealing with a ball that has some "action" on it because it force their contact point up into uncomfortable places when compared to a bit faster low angle of deflection flat serve around waist level that they can master the timing on fairly easily. Again, I think the calculus changes for those with a naturally high contact point where the pure flat serve becomes more of a reliable weapon. Great topic as usual!

[@Johnkoth]

I have a very flat serve. I never knew that is what it was called until I read it in a book. Most people that play first don't know what it is when I explain it. But when I get that serve in its very hard to hit. I mix it in with a slow serve and whoever tries to hit it can't hit it because they're back to far and it goes to low for them.

[@marceltorretta]

Great video! Very clear and to the point.

[@petershort936]

Some things to consider regarding the disappearing Flat Serve: 1. The biggest reason: Courts are slower than when Becker played. Hard courts and Wimbledon are all slower and I think that really robs serving of its power in the game. The grass season is too short (grass should have a masters 1000 and enough time for the tournaments to be played consecutively, not concurrently), the balls have way too much bounce in them (the fact that there isn't single regulation ball is insane), and keeping the ball in play with spin is an easier way to win at the jr level (fast attacking tennis is difficult for kids under 16). 2. Players are much better at returning serve now. It used to be a specialty skill, but it seems everyone is more than just competent at it. Serve +1 still exists, but returns have improved and there's less of it than before. 3. Players are stronger and can hit 120+mph on a slice or even kick. I mean look at Shapovalov. The guy can hit 125 on a slider outside or a kick serve and ace his opponent. Flat serves introduce unnecessary risk for him. On the other hand, look at Rublev, who can hit 120+ flat serves but his lack of variety makes him very predictable.

[@Marek333MM]

Every reason you’ve mentioned leads to conclusion that one should have flat serve, which is the fastest.

[@petershort936]

@@Marek333MM No. Slower courts rob the power of the flat serve, making it much more returnable. Players are better at returning flat serves now. For a flat serve to be effective it has to have great placement. Isner rarely redlines his serve into the hight 130s/140s anymore bc it's more difficult to place. Same with Opelka. Their best serves are often a slice out-wide, down the T in the ad spinning away, or the kick serve that hits really shallow in the service box. If everyone can hit above 125, then where it's placed and the spin it has will make a greater difference. Very few players have the kind of bombs that can make a huge difference. Berrettini and Zverev right now come to mind.

[@Marek333MM]

@@petershort936 Slower courts rob the speed of all kind of serves especially from slower ones - with spins.To be effective, every kind of serve must have great placement, because as you’ve written, nowadays players are returning so well that spins doesn’t effect them. So, still, flat serve as a first serve is very usefull :)

[@willkittwk]

Great breakdown. Love the myth buster theme. In terms of pronation I believe you nailed it. Too many coaches get on a pronation kick. I tend to look at results and if you can hit a serve without the continuing pronation just as hard and accurate stick with it. I find the continuing pronation helping on a sharp angle flat on the ad side cause it's easier to make a sharp angle short in the box for an ace or service winner or just pulling the receiver off court. Appreciate the breakdown and open mind.

[@hansolsson3409]

Great video on myths Nick! 😀

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@papajthegreenminded686]

thanks coach

[@absolutepowercorruptsabsol1864]

Simply Great.

[@DamianSheesh]

I've been sticking with the continental grip for all my serves because it has been drilled into my brain, but this Australian grip is interesting. I have a carpal boss (a bump of bone in my hand near my wrist) that causes a lot of pain on overheads, FH volleys and 'well struck' flat serves. Basically, at the pronated position when my racket is perpendicular to the ball, it causes a shock of pain from my wrist position. I feel it more on the overhead because I'm reversing the pace. As such, I don't hit many OH or flat serves. Other shots don't bother it. I might try this Aussie grip to see if it's pain free! Thanks

[@LucasMessore]

You made me realize I've been destroying my wrist for so long! Thanks for the videos!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Be careful

[@LucasMessore]

@@IntuitiveTennis yeah man, I'm going to really carefully re-learn wrist movement for the serve and work on strengthening my forearms a lot. For some reason, I don't remember my coaches really pointing out my wrist movements when I played in juniors, but to be fair it happens so fast it's hard to see.

[@jamespeter570]

Only very recently have I begun to develop a kick/slice serve mainly for 2nd serve. Flat serve is simply the best option for 1st serve at my level.

[@huanngo5659]

Hello Nick, I wonder if there’s a significant difference in the ball hitting angle between Duece and Ad side serve. I feel like Ad side I can hit it from 1 oclock and down more whereas Duece would be 12 oclock and flat straight (maybe slightly up).

[@cnt2495]

The other day I was practicing my serves, and I thought that I would create more spin if I snapped my wrist. Boy was I wrong... I stopped serving right after because my wrist immediately started hurting. Amazingly informative video once again! You're a pro in my book!

[@rds4629]

I think flat serves are great as a mixup. There's a sport in the U.S. called baseball and pitchers are often bragged about based on their fastball. As a returner though I like it when they keep hitting flat serves as it's easier to get into a groove. I tend to use a flat serve when up 30-0 or 40-15 .

[@user-be5qg7mr1s]

I use the aussie grip just for flat serve. Like you said more power! however I heard toss should be 11-1130

[@z3110599]

Hey Nick, do you have any advice for improving racquet head speed during my serves? I recorded myself and noticed it's quite slow. 😢

[@willmurphy6663]

Thanks again, been studying the serve and the different techniques and wrist pronation. As a golf coach myself I realise a lot of coaching is either myth, or completely inappropriate for the average player (who are trying to copy elite athletes, with half of their physical abilities). In golf for instance the instruction of turning the upper body against leg resistance, for the average golfer who is already struggling to turn...is a disaster (as is the completely straight left arm, rather than a slight bow).... thanks again really cleared my mind....

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🙏

[@HelpMeObiwan1]

What you don't understand about the Sampres technique is the 'cracking the whip' method of generating racket head speed. The body elongates as you extend up toward the ball, then contracts at impact.

[@gerkos1983]

More videos on kick serve, because it is tecnicaly harder serve to pull off for most ppl. Also a lot of ppl with a good recreational hard flat serve use a fryingpan grip and then realise they need to relearn there serve motion to be able to kick.

[@kykwan49]

I am a 4.0 player and I can handle a 100 to 105 mph flat serve pretty good, about 70% of the time. But I have more trouble with a good spin serve, either side spin or top spin. I think Edberg and Rafter used quite a bit of spin serves and went to the net, and put away returns with volley. I think, probably some people would agree, that flat serve has a lower margin of error, unless you are more than 6feet tall. But I also think putting in a flat serve every now and then is a good tactic to mix things up.

[@Lunchpgap]

i tried it this week and i don't know how, but that slight grip adjustment seems to have improved my serve.

[@williamyeh6925]

the big flat servers you mentioned (Isner, Opelka, Ranoic, Medvdev, Kyrios, Querry, etc.) are almost all over 6 feet 4 inches.

[@AmitAulakh]

Looking forward to the video "Flat Serve Coaching with Stefanos | Top 4 Player"!

[@hehehehehahahaha2025]

Thanks for breaking these myths, great series of videos. I'm curious, is the Sampras technique (bending the forearm) something that is done consciously during the serve? And if so, what is the benefit of it?

[@formulaicsounds]

Diaper dangle gets you "on top" of the ball. Brings ball into the box more consistently

[@hehehehehahahaha2025]

@@formulaicsounds thanks!

[@AhmedAbayazid]

Is there any type of spin in flat serve ? And how the ball will come down ? And where exactly you hit the ball ? At the center, above center or below center ?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

More in depth how to here 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJ-2l2uOn7mAq7c

[@boontatt5813]

Nik, is it true the more you toss the ball to the front the more speed you're gonna get for flat serve? Thanks

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Throwing in front is important kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGWakH6wpdSqndk

[@jasonsalierno5577]

How do you like the grey colored grip? Do you choose grey because dirt is less visible? The reason I don't like white is because it becomes too dirty before the grip itself wears out. I don't want to replace a grip simply because it's dirty.

[@rsh8057]

I think it's a different when the courts/game was a little faster in the 80s/90s. The pro players don't care about hype; they use whatever wins more. When you have players standing far back that flat serve isn't going to overpower them, it's going to be more placement. With that said, I'm working on adding a flat serve to my game, but more of a change-up. Something to throw in when I'm up 30-luv. I'd be interested in learning more strategy in using flat serves for singles.

[@chrisdesilva4665]

Listen to Nico, don't use your wrist, I tried it twice, just messing around trying to copy a Becker delivery, 1st time the racket smacked my knee, 2nd time, I could not control my racket after the serve, it flew out off my grip and went head first into the court smashing the racket so don't do it. (My first serve averages 120mph so that's a lot of raw power). I don't pronate when I'm going down the line, I do pronate when I'm going for the outside but it's not something I tell myself to do, if it happens, it happens. I find one of the reasons why people don't utilise the flat Serve as much is because they're trying to hit a very hard 1st kick serve but what they don't realise is that if they do that then the purpose of the kick serve being a high percentage serve drops dramatically and becomes a lower percentage than a flat 1st serve. Personally I much prefer a semi slice 1st serve, it can be hit with tremendous power, it's actually far more powerful than my flat.

[@hsy2448]

Wow, I spiked my racket when I did a kick serve because my grip was old but luckily there was no significant damage to the frame.

[@robertocfaguiar]

Can you have a close up on the australian grip. I feel exactly what you sad. that this australian grip give me more power and precision. I told my teacher and he sad that I am wrong.

[@gab_ale]

Now I want to go practice my serve.

[@MHTakaoka]

Confused, new video but apparently video was so good that KZbin believed I already watched the first 5 minutes..

[@mundi352]

The flat serve when executed and used as an alternative is one of the best combinations in the game

[@K4R3N]

I have a tendency to overhit my flat serve. Like murder the ball. When I back off the power it helps the percentage and it is still a challenging hit

[@formulaicsounds]

Looser not harder

[@Tennisbull-match-statistics]

I learned to snap the wrist when I started playing tennis in the 90s. Despite a 30 year pause I still want to snap the wrist when I started playing again. It’s difficult to unlearn

[@Fired88]

Do you still recommend developing a flat serve as 5'6" male. 4.5ish player?

[@beesone_chess]

It’s good to be flexible. Learn everything.

[@ldeue4837]

Us shorter guys can do it and do it consistently, we just have a slightly different swing-path, the ball needs to come out and stay straight or even go up a bit before it starts to drop. I practice swinging out from time to time and trying to hit the back fence, You will see that it helps you figure out depth control.

[@rsmith02]

Sure, I'm the same height and play at a similar level. If you are willing to put in the hours it can become a good weapon for you.

[@patrickmin4086]

I'm curious: what is your typical flat serve speed? And if you know, how do you measure it?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Never measured it

[@patrickmin4086]

@@IntuitiveTennis So it's time to make a video on the various racket trackers, tennis video analysis apps, etc. :-)

[@IntuitiveTennis]

@@patrickmin4086 😂😂 nice idea 💡

[@Lunchpgap]

i've seen coaches measure it with a small speed gun.

[@bradgolomb3459]

Nik how are the new Nike Air Zoom Vapor Pros?

[@henriquelaydner4080]

I think that the reason for existing more kick serve videos is that it is more difficult to execute than the flat and the slice serves.

[@roybatty2268]

It is also a matter of popularity. Many players are relatively short and need a higher margin of error serve and a second serve. Flat serves are typically first serves only while slice and kick can be first and second serves, hence more people trying to learn them. You are certainly correct that they seemingly take more technique to get right since they are less obvious, but I would argue that a good flat serve is more difficult to execute well because there is less margin for error and if you are hitting it too slow and not with good placement or easy to read, it is easy to return for a winner or at least get back in play with pace. I've seen slow kickers bounce over a short players head. Recreational players don't have the patience to get a good flat serve at least where I play. I am the only one out here putting in the hours to perfect placement and pace.

[@anneworse9931]

I think it’s easy for you to suggest a flat serve because you are tall. I’m small (1,56) and most of my flat serves end up in the net - therefore I use a slice serve.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

You can serve flat at 1.56. Your contact is taking place well above the net. It’s only 91 cm in the middle of the net

[@dennisthegreek5336]

Very analytical, useful stuff as always. I have a question. Apart from technical flaws on nowadays players 1st-flat serve, when you say that the majority of players perform hybrid serves instead of flat ones, do you mean that there is also some spin (slice or kick spin) on the ball, or that they just have some characteristics of kick or slice serves incorporated in their flat serve strokes? P.S.: It's always nice to pronounce players' names correctly. I'd like to hear you say Na-δ-àl instead of Nantal and Stéfanos Tsitsipás instead of Stefános Tsítsipas.

[@niceguy5430]

Modern player serve is a mixture of flat + spin serve...70% flat and 30 % spin.....spin can be both slice or kick

[@motownazn]

I think we all know that the flat serve is really a round serve, we’re all just too tiny to actually see how round it is

[@PrinceLawrence-w9y]

I'm surprised that no pros hired you as a coach

[@MAELOB]

Nadal famously changed grip to Australian and started hitting flat serves on one of his US open wins- but then he seemed to abandon the technique

[@formulaicsounds]

Hmm good point

[@bmtspain6839]

strange : the first myth i have never heard about and im teaching for 40 years , the second i didnt know that there are different pronations ( i thought there is only 1 way to pronate )the third if snapping is flexion and extension then its posible with an eastern forehand grip ( not at profesional level, and its indeed less safe but its posible and not a myth ). a lot of myths i have never heard about and started playing in 1972 :)

[@commondirtbagz7130]

Hey man, you replied to another one of my comments awhile ago. And my coach who got his info from that guy I sent you said there is no wrist snap which is the pronation you were talking about I believe. So I was right initially.

[@bmtspain6839]

@@commondirtbagz7130 i think you are turning things around, because you said that pronating is snapping down ,see your comment ( Pronating is snapping down. He is pronating after. If you knew anything about biomechanics you would know that’s not how that works.). You said he is pronating after and i said that pronation will be before contact, see my comment ( pronation will always start before contact !!! ) . You also said flexion is the opposite of pronation but you have the idea of flexion right but thats where you are confused between flexion and extension and pronation and supination where i answered the following ( You say pronation is snapping down and I have doubts about that . So I said it’s because flexión and extension you have the snapping down . Like you have supination in your serve before pronation. You have the flexión before the extension in your serve and you have the radial before the ulnar deviation. So pronation is the opposite of supination and flexion of extension.) so maybe check the email again. give me your email and i send you a video of me showing the 2 different things the hand can do and the one the underarm can do. you can also check my Serve serie which are 12 videos explaining all the differences in the serve. No problem , just 2 tennisplayers talking about tennis :)

[@commondirtbagz7130]

@@bmtspain6839 alright bud. Here’s an article proving what I’ve said. Pronation and flexion are both needed for snapping in a serve which you don’t want. You want the serve to pronate but then stabilize before contact. Having your wrist flex after contact is fine, during is not. Here’s what happens if you do what you say during the serve. Also I am not saying I know a lot about biomechanics terminology but I know the role of the hand and wrist in tennis. www.google.com/amp/s/www.caringmedical.com/prolotherapy-news/snapping-ecu-tendon/amp/

[@commondirtbagz7130]

@@bmtspain6839 by the way I’m not saying you don’t know what you are talking about, obviously you’ve gone to enough seminars on the biomechanics of tennis players but I believe you are misinterpreting what happens at contact. Same with a forehand, your wrist lags but must stabilize at contact or you will hurt yourself. Momentum brings your wrist through which causes a millisecond(maybe an exaggeration) of brushing across the ball which imparts spin, but the rest of the hand turning and or wrist action should happen after contact.

[@svverma3808]

Venus Williams one of the faster women server, uses wrist on flat serve. Just watch her video. I'd say its a myth to not use wrist, just don't abruptly stop, and continue the motion n you will be fine

[@Marek333MM]

👍🏻

[@gmr2gnr]

👍

[@gab_ale]

1:51 Medvedev had other ideas.

[@Javi_C]

😀

[@talesara74]

The reason flat serve is becoming abaolute is Roger federer. Roger has shown that serve is not about speed but placement and placement can only come with spin. In reality Rogers first serve was an attacking kick serve and 2nd was defensive kick setve. I disagree with your idea of serves. If people go for flat serve the way you are suggesting then they can not place the ball.

[@albana26]

Is it myth or miffs?

[@knotwilg3596]

If you mythed the flath serve miss ...

[@apocolipse98]

Take a shit every time he says flat serve myth

[@drbonesshow1]

Start with the neutral wrist and then learn about the 6-actions of the wrist. Most tennis instructors (probably you as well) say: WTF? That's because ignorance is bliss in sports instruction.

[@drbonesshow1]

@@jerome_morrow There are 6-actions through which the wrist moves (starting from the neutral wrist). Now go away.

[@drbonesshow1]

@@jerome_morrow Boo hoo hoo. If you were smart or getting smarter, you'd be directing your attention away from surgery. Often times the equipment used in sports is the culprit for such injuries. Here you will find various improvements: www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/sports/tennis/don-mueller-rackets.html

[@drbonesshow1]

@@jerome_morrow Try getting over yourself for a change. Denigrate appears to be your social media inspired word of the day. I prefer to use the word challenge and in challenging people to think for themselves or think differently. You will never be heard in the herd of social media morons. Am I getting through to you ma'am?

[@boblipkin5690]

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