The 4 Squares Review - Terraforming Mars: Ares Expedition

The Dice Tower takes a look at the Terraforming Mars card game Ares Expedition!
Intro 0:00
Overview 0:58
Final Thoughts 9:50
Scores 22:55
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BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3...

[@relativelyboard9959]

4 Squares reviews are the best reviews on KZbin, even if you dont like games you are so objective. Love it! Keep up the good work!

[@nerzenjaeger]

Four Squares is where it's at. I remember EAGERLY awaiting the Miami Dice reviews back in Sam's days.

[@tailz1319]

I absolutely agree. I know it's essentially four times the amount of work load for them and they're cutting into their individual review time, but for me it's completely worth it. More 4 Squares from the main crew, while boosting the popularity of the other Dice Tower network reviewers for the smaller games seems like a win/win to me!

[@ClockworkWyrm]

I really enjoy the variety of opinions in the 4 Square reviews but to be clear, outside of the rules and gameplay overview, they are SUBjective.

[@drbasseri]

Agree

[@Mark-jagger]

This is the best Dice Tower format so far and I very much enjoy the different perspectives. You’ve built an excellent team, Mr. Vasel. Kudos

[@lawrencefurbish9167]

Fantastic music at the end of a great review! Thank you for making my day better.

[@michaelmay7921]

Just got done reading the instructions for this.. Great review guys! Looking forward to getting some friends together and playing it soon.

[@hydra2019]

Love this new format with all the differing thoughts. Great insight!

[@Charlotte00125]

I play this solo or 2 player at most and I just use 2 small cubes from another color for the temperature and oxygen tracks. I also keep the ocean tiles shuffled in the organizer and put them on the board as I play them. I love the quick set-up time and replayability.

[@Johnsemgawl]

I cant wait to get my hands on this in August (hopefully), everything I like about a boardgame

[@Sthunderrocker]

I can't really say cuz I haven't played it yet, but this came across is a fairly optimistic review. I'm interested to see if Tom keeps that score say a year down the line

[@mrbastos]

I was already leaning towards backing it, but the DT playthrough is what made me pull the trigger and back it. The game looked a lot of fun, and looked a lot quicker than everyone described the original Terraforming Mars. I haven't played Race for the Galaxy or Terraforming Mars, so seeing what I felt was the two combined in your gameplay sold me on it. Really excited to get my copy soon.

[@CaptHawkeye]

We found this at a bargain store today for $15. Very excited.

[@TheTomAbz]

As someone who does not own TR or Race but have played the apps. I feel like picking up Ares expedition. It looks prettier than both games and looks like it plays smoother and faster than TR.

[@distantbabble]

Zee makes sense, for those who have played Race for the Galaxy. However, I have never played Terraforming Mars or Race for the Galaxy, and this review has sold me on picking this up.

[@dall1786]

Trust me on this one. Race for the Galaxy is a WAY WAY better game. This one is nowhere near as good and it's not even half as fun as playing original TM. The biggest problem here is that these guys are massive game reviewers and their time is limited so anything fast and quick is what they want to play. I mean they only said that about 20+ times during this review.

[@junosynth]

I'm going to have to agree. This is a very lite game compared to Race and TM. If you want something meatier then definitely pick those 2 up instead.

[@lkcroff]

I notice 2 other sets of notches on the mainboard. I think they have 2 expansions planned for this that will socket onto the top and left side of the board.

[@bruceulrich1231]

Regarding the oceans tiles and how they're awkward to flip on the board... Why wouldn't you just have an area set aside or even a bag to draw a tile and then place it on the board afterwards? Seems like a simple fix

[@mcnationprod]

Thats what I do, shuffle them and keep them beside the board, flip and place. Theres zero reasoning behind having them on the board

[@sexagesimalian]

@10:30 The original Terraforming Mars board game had cards with both iconography and clear, easy to understand text.

[@aSyphodias]

Yup, it was already there!

[@Skippan]

He didn't say it wasn't before, he just remarked on the presence

[@blanetalk]

He was comparing it to Race for the Galaxy in that regard.

[@gabtrat9091]

Tom has one of the best rules overviews I've seen for this game

[@rontalkstabletop]

Interesting. Very interesting indeed. I'll have to check this out.

[@MrPigpom]

Bought this at target because it was 50% off! Got it for $20, I have race for the galaxy, but I’ve barely dug into it and if never played TM. I’m looking forward to this!

[@gijoe250]

Love the review! Definitly helped me make a decision. Ill probably just stick with the original TF as I loved the area control aspect

[@lilyblanco9525]

I know I'm late to the party, but I finally got to play this game! I think it's great! I only played with one other person, so we ignored the simultaneous play and took turns going first. That helped in learning to play the game for the first time too. One thing we decided was useless (for us being two players) were the phase tokens to the right side of the board. It was much easier to just take the phase cards we chose and put them right next to each other to see what we'd be doing.

[@lukasvitroler2178]

Zee's review was the best out of the 4! He really took the POV of a new gamer and thats important!

[@SFuruli]

I disagree with that. I'm a new gamer, and I don't care for RftG (Race for the Galaxy), but I love the choices of phases in Ares Expansion. So according to Zee, Ares should have had a different mechanic just to avoid being similar to RftG. Then I, as a new gamer, who don't have (and won't get) RftG, would have missed out on this great mechanic. That's what I got from him, plus the nitpicking on having tiles for oceans, which is completely irrelevant to me. He was just overly negative. Tom, on the other hand, matches my view and enthusiasm almost all the time.

[@ChaBox998]

@@SFuruli agreed, for new gamers who have not played race for the galaxy, the similarities are irrelevant. I guess it comes down to which one of the two games one prefers.

[@ddobrien1]

My copy will be here by this Wednesday... I'm honestly excited about it!

[@mrbastos]

Did you back it? I know they mentioned shipping soon, and we may not get shipping details but I was wondering if people are getting their backer copies yet.

[@blanetalk]

Yeah, following because I backed it and didn't get that bit of news.

[@winklerlaarmans]

I already have my copy a few days (in Europe) so would expect it will be with backers in the US also soon

[@SteveLEKORodrigue]

Basically, make a pile of hexagonal ocean tiles and flip them in a second (discard) pile instead of laying them down and flip them. Simpler to do.

[@StuartHetzler]

i don't really see anything about this that will make me want it over having the original.

[@StevenStJohn-kj9eb]

I really admire the streamlining they did with this one - with the way titanium and steel work, with the way card requirements work, and with the board. I also really admire how they integrated simultaneous play into the game. OTOH, I feel like this is a game I would give a 9 and yet have no interest in buying it. The original is a 10 for me, and I love all the expansions. The original is clunky in places and can go a little long, but I look forward to every play of it. I would miss the board and the expansions too much. Ares almost seems like Terraforming Mars with stuff left out, which just isn't a selling point for me. If the stuff left out was stuff I wouldn't miss, it would be enticing. Still, I hope it does well.

[@chopperdan2021]

I think I feel the same way, there would be too much missing. It's interesting watching this and the BoardgameCo/Quackalope videos. They love the original game, whereas the DT crew seems overall pretty indifferent to it. Alex and Jesse were "meh" on Ares Expedition. I think I would be in their camp, as TM is my #1 game.

[@domoredujordan]

Agreed. The original has a grand feeling, and the giant map of Mars and seeing its slow progression to a habitable world really sells that idea. This seems to shrink what is supposed to be a big endeavor, in my mind.

[@KuantumSuicide]

I hear ya! The board on the original gives a totally different vibe, I would also prefer to play a board game rather than a card game.

[@blanetalk]

The well known knock on Race For The Galaxy has always been the iconography as a barrier to understanding how to play. The publishers have had a lot of time to release a new edition with clearer graphics, tools or player aids to make learning the game easier, and have not done so. I don't care if Teraforming Mars: Ares Expedition seems like a nearly "on the nose" copying of the RftG mechanisms. (It's not the first or last game to do so.) I welcome TR: Ares Expedition because that icon/text combination on the cards makes it SO much easier to teach/learn!

[@mydemon]

Good point.

[@69robtaylor]

Terraforming mars is my favourite game. Race for the galaxy is great too. So I’m really excited to get this one.

[@boardgameknight2791]

Any plans to review the non-Target version? I'd love to pick this up, and I'd be happy paying for better components.

[@andrewnr3238]

Does anyone know if the retail edition in Europe (and the US when the Target exclusivity ends) will have the double or single layer player boards? I understood during the kickstarter campaign that the only difference between the ks and retail editions would be the promo cards.

[@davidmedina3063]

No, the double layer boards are KS exclusive.

[@mikaelhansson9260]

While watching this, I got an email saying my KS copy is on it's way!

[@pobvox]

After putting the money into the big box expansion for the original I'm good on standalone versions

[@JohnClem56]

Thanks for the review and perspective. I just can't see playing this over either RftG or original TM (with drafting and Prelude). I get that it's shorter and has a lot of the TM flavor but I just like the bigger strategic feel of TM and RftG. I'm sure it's very good and I'd definitely play it, just don't feel a need to own it.

[@dall1786]

Exactly spot on. This game is nowhere near as good as RFTG and anyone that says it is never truly played RFTG. I certainly cannot see how it replaces TM because it's not remotely the same game.

[@chasecausey3821]

Y'all are crazy! This doesnt replace Terraforming Mars. If anything it replaces Race for the Galaxy.

[@nerzenjaeger]

Au contraire, watch this replacing Mars over time but not replacing Race.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

This doesn't look like it replaces either...

[@WIllis073]

i mean a plate of garbage replaces Race. but ya. its a much better version of Race with a TM feel.

[@barrygregory8177]

So if I didn't much like Race for the Galaxy but love the theme of actually terraforming a world and gameplay of Terraforming Mars, there's not much point in getting this as I don't need both?

[@alecgalbraith5604]

Intrigued to try this, but I’m not sure I’d ever want to play this over TM or Race.

[@MikeDV34]

I guess that's why you try it then, huh?

[@DavidOdum]

Also why you watch reviews...

[@ericdollarhyde3296]

What about under? Or on the side?

[@kevinm2832]

The hobby version of the game has the better board etc right? Looks fun.

[@Dr.TurdFartleyBM]

Is the 2 player co-op variant any good?

[@ericdollarhyde3296]

I've never played terraforming mars, always looked to dry and crunchy.this one looks juicy and meaty!!! The art is definitely better, and smaller box, shorter playtime? I'm in!

[@rattusludus8528]

100 people 100 times taste. IMHO this is drier than sahara desert... The feeling is just odd. Its not Terraforming Mars, its an shallow game engine....

[@TheHallbjorn]

Looks like each player could use two d10s in player colors instead of the score track, like Star Realms released as score trackers.

[@cadiboy04]

Is Mike going to review Solo mode?

[@fur10usal50]

This game is great! Picked it up last week, and really enjoyed my first game. I had TM and ended up selling because it’s just way to long imo, and too fidly. I did appreciate the mechanics but just couldn’t get it to the table. I decided to give this a shot being as I did think the original was well designed, and I did enjoy it minus the length of time involved. AE gives you the TM feel without all the minutiae. Pick it up you won’t be upset.

[@brianstever2146]

My first playthrough was a bust but I'll try it again.

[@rabidpickle]

Card quality is great in this BUT my copy had project cards cut to different sizes, making shuffling properly impossible. I returned the copy and got another one, same problem. So I have to sleeve 208 cards to solve the problem

[@lawofgravity1979]

I saw someone else have that same problem on BGG. Sleeving solves it but if you reach out to SHG directly they should send you a corrected copy. They helped the guy that posted about it on BGG

[@mydemon]

Yikes

[@ilqrd.6608]

Race for the Galaxy is THE game for me and this doesn’t even come close. I still can’t quite comprehend how Race never gets old especially with a combination of the expansions. I’ve been playing it since 5 years and even more often since I bought it digitally

[@SvanMagic]

I wish I could like Race but after 10 plays it never worked for me. I understand why others like it but it reminds me exactly why I don't like Power Grid. Great design, not fun at all. This new version of TM looks exactly what I want in a game. I just hope that it lives up to my hype.

[@nerzenjaeger]

But have you played Ares Expedition?

[@SvanMagic]

@@nerzenjaeger no that's why I said I hope it lives to my hype.

[@ilqrd.6608]

@@nerzenjaeger I saw enough of it to understand how it plays…it’s not like this game has surprises in store. What you see is what you get

[@nerzenjaeger]

@@ilqrd.6608 Highly disagree. Reading the rules and watching a game being played is a very different thing than playing a game, but hey, at least that's the context you're rating this in, which is valid.

[@codym6376]

Mike made one comment that really puzzled me. “I got rid of terraforming Mars because of all the expansions that kept coming out.” Why can’t you just enjoy what you have without buying the expansions? Can you really not be happy knowing an expansion exists and you don’t own it? I can understand you still preferring the new version but I don’t understand that specific reason.

[@lastburning]

It was a stupid comment I agree.

[@michaelhastriter3299]

Well to be fair sometimes a game is played to death and you just naturally get rid of it after you "figure it out". But When an expansion is added then you keep the game long enough to figure out the new expansion... but if there are 5 more expansions and they are all complex you may be best just getting rid of the game even though you loved the base game rather than hoping it will get better after you figure out the expansions.

[@nerzenjaeger]

It wasn't precisely what he said, but even taking your interpretation into account I know a whole lot of TM players that refuse to play the base game without at least one expansion. And you can probably double that for the hardcore TM veterans.

[@dall1786]

@@michaelhastriter3299 uh you would literally have to play TM 100's of times to "Figure it out". It's not like you can just always have the same setup each game. That's just with the base game. I mean to be honest all you really need to have for TM if you enjoy it is Prelude and the extra boards. Beyond that is not necessary to have an infinite mix of games.

[@michaelhastriter3299]

@@dall1786 I agree you'd have to play 100s of times to beat every pro, but to become a local expert with people you are playing with you may figure out a killer strategy after the first 20 games... Also who's to say Mike hasn't played it 100s of times already!

[@Killer62Joe]

Do I NEED both? Nope but I got all three; original, Ares & now Dice game.

[@jalinstockdale9625]

I enjoyed my play through with Aries Expedition. I love the game! But it will never place TM for me. TM gives me an epic game/experience. Aries Expedition doesn’t give me that epic game/experience. But I’m glad I have both in my collection.

[@Calistake047]

Not having played the game, I think I'm with Zee on this one. When I was watching the overview I was like, well, do we really need another RftG mixed with another TM?

[@jibi4820]

rftg is like a 30 min + game tm is like a 2 hr + game having something in between is nice

[@RaduStanculescu]

For me this seems like a less complex version of both RaceFTG or TMars. And I like the complexity in those other two games, so not really sure why I'd play this one. Nothing in it feels different enough to really stand out.

[@Fighterfan69]

Was following the KS but didn't back. After watching playthroughs, THe Race vibe didn't appeal to me. Race for the Galaxy didn't do it for me but Roll for the Galaxy did. Perhaps down the line when an expansion adds some more interesting things I'll pick it up. I will not get it without the dual-layer boards that the Target edition has.

[@ErichChaves]

Sounds great. I never played Race for the Galaxy nor Terraforming Mars so this game sounds perfect. Thank you DT 👊🏻👊🏻

[@ianoble]

Is Tom's mic off?

[@pepagacy]

I cannot see myself giving up my copy of Terraforming Mars as it is my favorite game. I did back the Kickstarter of Ares Expedition, and hope to get it to the table soon. After looking at various KZbin videos, I am looking forward to playing this. I consider these two games two different experiences. I've gotten a lot of extra bling for Terraforming Mars, and am looking into doing a bit more since I do not see myself giving up on the grand experience of Terraforming Mars. Neoprene mats may be my next purchase if I can swing the extra expense. By the way, I really hate Race For the Galaxy and prefer to play Roll For the Galaxy. I cannot understand how Race works, and enjoy Roll more. Plus you get to chuck handfuls of dice. Who does not like that??? So we'll see if the comparisons to Race For the Galaxy are true with the descriptions of the 4 Squares.

[@gilbertwalker9862]

If anyone is concerned that this is a race for the galaxy clone, I'd encourage you to try it. It's actually really different imho :D

[@bushibayushi]

How do you feel about removing the goals from the game?

[@RaduStanculescu]

The lack of goals (milestones and awards) or any map interaction is what's killing this for me.

[@davetalbert8387]

I predict that goals and map placement will be the first expansion or first two expansions.

[@SvanMagic]

Those are my least favorite parts of TM. To me they don't add enough to make it worthwhile. That's my opinion, I know others love them.

[@RaduStanculescu]

@@SvanMagic I like goals because they give some additional early to mid-game interaction. Out of curiosity what bothers you about them? Do you play without them in your games? I guess it's easy to house rule if you all agree.

[@SvanMagic]

@@RaduStanculescu No, it's part of the game. I didn't say it's bad, just prefer the stripped version that Ares did. For me it makes teaching new players tough. You already have a lot of stuff to teach and then adding another system doesn't help. But I like that there's different versions of the game. One that is complex and one that is simplier. I'll probably keep both unless I see TM never gets played.

[@Monkeyb00y]

Ares Expedition is to Terraforming Mars as San Juan is to Puerto Rico ?

[@rikhavok]

Funny how I love this mechanic of everyone picks an action and everyone uses each action but the chooser gets a bonus. But. I cannot stand Race for the galaxy because the lack of text on the cards. Ad Astra is one of my favorite games of all time and I really like San Juan. Puerto Rico is ok. But TM: AE looks like I should be getting it.

[@blanetalk]

I backed the KS for exactly that reason.

[@CK-mi3sd]

Same here. When does Race for the Galaxy add text on the cards?

[@Cid_Hi]

finally!!!! a Terraforming Mars that I would pay for!!!!!!! : ) Still waiting for the somewhere in the future aniversary ed. with new art to play for the first time the board game. Yes, graphic quality it's a huge pet peeve for me.

[@jogumby]

The only thing holding me back on this is, it's only 4 player. The original is 5 and my core group is 5. Does not mean I won't get into it at some point as we occasionally have more than 5 and will split into smaller groups on those occasions, but for now it may have to wait...

[@SFJay1]

Agree with Zee; I thought ratings would be MUCH lower. It is Race pasted onto TM. If I want to play Race, I'll play Race. Mars is epic because it feels like planet terraforming. This is a slower-paced Race with too many cards in a tableau.

[@SvanMagic]

I don't like Race. Even with the similarity to Race that Ares has, It seems much more interesting to me. To me this takes the most interesting parts of TM and condenses it into a more interesting game. I could see why others prefer Race or the original TM to this game but for me, this seems a much better version. But I haven't played Ares yet, so my opinion could change.

[@nerzenjaeger]

Okay, but have you played it though?

[@sohailsadaqat6684]

hmm, it probably depends on how much you like TM. I HATE race for the galaxy and love TM and I loved even watching some playthrough of this game. So I think If you are more Race fan and compared it to Race than I can easily see it as disappointing but its TM card game so It works as TM card game. Best part of TM is building cool engine instead of terraforming Mars and this just amplify that

[@SvanMagic]

@@sohailsadaqat6684 I agree on your comment as I'm also one that doesn't like Race.

[@shiwan8]

Just bought this. Why? We play 2 player games with the prettier half and we like to use all of TM at the same time. We both think and analyze and that makes the games long. We can do one TM in 4-5 hours. I hope that we can do this as TM lite for quick games so that we can play even when we don't have much time.

[@MarsStarcruiser]

Interesting 🧐

[@jamesjacobthomson6198]

This game has had so much beef the last couple of weeks. Great to see it getting some love for once! :)

[@ScytheNoire]

These review scores had me spitting out my water. I wonder how many of these guys are fans and like to play the original TM. Reviews I have seen are that fans of TM don't like Ares as much, find it lacking and not as good, whereas, people who aren't fans of TM are liking Ares more. Zee was right, if you know Race or TM, than this might not appeal to you.

[@dall1786]

I truly believe they enjoy this game because they just don't like and/or have the time to play longer games anymore. They have become so big they just cannot appreciate a game of just TM because they have to review so many games. Anyone can clearly see this game is not anything like TM and saying this replaces RFTG is just ludicrous.

[@thedicetower]

Well, we've been known for ludicrous opinions. I LOVE Terraforming Mars. I've played it MANY times. I STILL like it. I just think I prefer this card game more. That's not a dig at TM, I just really like this card game.

[@RulebooksForYou]

Looks like a clear replacement of TM for me! :)

[@m00npie]

I couldn’t agree more with Mike - I will always pick this over the original for all the reasons Tom and Mike discussed.

[@bigaleka92]

Great review. These 4 squares review are excellent. I normally agree with Zee’s view on things, but this time I will respectfully disagree with his views on the graphic design, I think it works really nicely when all the cards are laid out, seeing the clear tags and effects very clearly wins my vote. As to what I think of the game well…I love Terraforming Mars, but I wasn’t overly keen on the tile laying or the awards. I really like the engine building and the theme. Ares Expedition therefore ticks all my boxes. I am genuinely excited to see if they recreate “newer” versions of current expansions or if they come up with something new and original. I can see new ocean tiles with different themed rewards, I can definitely see a version of Prelude, I wondered if the grooves on the edge of the Mars board are for fitting a side board neatly on. I’d also quite like to see a story mode maybe. With the absence of cities in the game currently, you could all be given a city board that gives unique starting conditions and then needs certain requirements to boost Terraforming maybe. Any thoughts anyone?

[@Johji92]

No more drafting variant though :(

[@nezukoshop]

I'm still gonna play traditional Terraforming Mars over this, because of the tactile feel of it, having put ocean 3D TILES on to the board, put my 3d Foredt tiles, it feels satysfying and beautiful once the game ends with so many 3d tiles on boards. This card game can not do that. What I wonde is, what if I play Terraforming Mars with rules from this cardgame: with each player play what phase they want to play.

[@TheCharlesFr]

I think my main issue with the original game is that there was no interaction at all between players in an extremely long game. If there is more of it here, that seems like an improvement.

[@DavidOdum]

IMHO it seems like much less interaction. The original definitely had interaction with tile placement. After you play it enough you realize that you can "steal" whole sections of the board with the right city placements. There were also cards that interacted with other players, both in a "take that" way and in a more complex way, such as using the commercial district to take advantage of others' cities before they can slam their greeneries down. Timing is everything: e.g., sometimes you feel lots of pressure to use your plants to avoid getting hit with a plant-destroying card from another player, but you know that if you place the greenery optimally someone else might take advantage of it with a city, so do you place it sub-optimally and hope for a better opportunity later, or do you wait and risk it? With the Colonies and Turmoil expansions interactivity goes up even more.

[@KurtDepner]

With Tom 100% on this one. If it wasn’t for the lame scoring tracks, definitely a 10. And I’ve played this a lot now! Probably over three dozen times at least. Still new. Still fresh. Nearly infinite replayability. And I’m probably down to around an hour with my group who knows the game well, even at four.

[@jamesknowles9236]

I love this version of TM and we break it out at least once a month on gameday. However, we do not play it simultaneously, but in turn order. Yes, it slows the game down, but if we want a fast game, we'll play uno or Yahtzee.

[@carpzero1]

San Juan has the same type of game play, i.e. each player takes an action and the chooser gets a bonus.

[@alex_lian]

What’s the difference between strategic vs tactics?

[@alecgalbraith5604]

Strategic = long term planning, Tactical = reacting to the constant changing game state. Tactical games tend to have more “luck” to them, while strategic games tend to have more open information.

[@alex_lian]

@@alecgalbraith5604 thanks

[@joethomas1775]

I think that this would be easier to teach people then Race.

[@MisterAbysmul]

As someone who's taught both, YES you are correct.

[@davekoehnlein4575]

I want a dice tower shirt of the Friends scene where Ross yells “PIVOT!” but with Mike’s face over Ross’s face.

[@dall1786]

But is it really a faster game? Ares can last just as long as TM games.

[@HITFORDCYCLE1]

Wow! I found it to be multiplayer solitaire. There was zero interaction. I did not care what the other players were doing. Give me regular terraforming Mars. There was 0 tension. We all had a ton of money at the end.

[@tomatodamashi]

Zee looks at Tom when he's talking and listens, Roy makes weird faces into the camera...

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It's hard to not do it but ideally you should NEVER blankly stare into the camera.

[@tomlikeabomb6706]

so this is better than race for the galaxy and terraforming mars in Tom's opinion?

[@thedicetower]

I'd pick it over Terraforming Mars, probably. Race, maybe.

[@JerreMuesli]

Zee like: I'm not going to compare it to Terraforming Mars.. But ... RACE FOR THE GALAXY!!!

[@thomasromanelli2561]

The irony of the DT crew playing the Target version of this game is not lost on me, and the prioritization of retail over KS backers might have been better received had SHG been more forthcoming from the beginning. Announcing their plans to have Target release their "exclusive version" the day before it was scheduled really shows that the backers are always an afterthought. Objectively, this looks like a competently-prodcued TM-lite that will likely draw many new fans to the IP, which is good because I want the hobby to grow and I can think of no more expedient method than having desirable games in a big box store like Target. However, it's a missed opportunity that SHG did not make their product more different than RftG rather than designing a pretty reskin. I'm sure the KS backers will appreciate their 17 promo cards, double-layered boards and cube trays... when they finally get them.

[@MartinBorquezJr]

I think it makes way more sense to review the retail version as a review is good to help folks decide to buy, and the kickstarter crowd has already made that decision.

[@ThymeKeeper]

This one is a difficult take for me. I don't consider it a replacement for TM (FOR ME :>). They scratch different itches. I definitely feel like Ares is a better solo experience and it may be a legit replacement in that context. I don't really disagree with anything in the review, particularly regarding the board. In fact I'd go so far as to play without the board entirely if I had a tracker for Oxygen/Temperature. The ocean tiles on the map are just silly if you're trying to create a faster, lighter game. That's what I'm spending the most time thinking about. It is absolutely lighter and faster than TM, but it doesn't seem lighter and faster enough (FOR ME :>) to be considered a light and fast game, if that makes sense.

[@liambest8213]

I feel like, for most people, they'll stick to the original Terraforming Mars - it's #4 on BGG so it's obviously hugely popular. I just can't see this getting a massive audience in the same way

[@DudeHUN1]

We play TF because it is a big, epic "hard core" sci-fi game. This game is good, but very different than the "big brother". Imho.

[@timothyiwan275]

The Kickstarter version comes with the deluxe dual layered boards along with extra cards. Odd Tom didn’t mention that when he docked his score half a point when his lone issue is resolved when his ks copy arrives.

[@sjcak]

No, the player boards will be dual layered which he said wasn't really an issue, but the main board is exactly the same - thats where the 0.5 got knocked off.

[@MythicosQc74]

Two things: 1) Hate the board and the cubes that can so easily be knocked off, it's REALLY annoying; 2) HATE HATE HATE that this comes out mere months after the Big Box kickstarter. You mean that after I spent a gazillion dollars on what amounts to components that SHOULD have been in the base Terraforming Mars box, another version comes out? Why would I want them both?

[@magnusjakobsson7424]

I skipped TM because 1) I was late to the party 2) it has crappy components and ugly cards. My KS copy of Ares will deliver this week, excited to try it out! :)

[@BoardGames3000]

I was excited to hear about the Kickstarter when announced, but after it’s launch I just didn’t quite get the point of this game. I mean I have everything for TM, in fact I was still waiting for my Big Box to come in. Why would I want to Kickstart TMs baby brother. I think what I heard from the reviews here is that they didn’t really like the original TM that much to they will easily choose a sort of simpler version of TM.

[@nerzenjaeger]

Tom explicitly said that TM was a Top50 game for him. This is close enough to the original but shorter and obviously more exciting for him.

[@Fighterfan69]

​@@nerzenjaeger Race for the Galaxy is also a top 50 game for him too. Didn't like Race but loved Roll for the Galaxy. TM is a bigger more robust game with the expansions. Was following the KS but didn't back. It just didn't seem exciting to me even after watching playthroughs. Perhaps down the line when an expansion adds some more interesting things I'll pick it up. I will not get it without the dual-layer boards that the Target edition has.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

I feel like I'm definitely one of the very few who didn't really like this one as much as the original terraforming mars.

[@Coyote81]

I disagree about his complaints about the actions and phase being so similiar, I've played thousands of hours of race, this has a different feel for sure.

[@DavidOdum]

Yeah I don't understand why so many reviewers are saying they would play this over TM. I wonder if it's just because so many reviewers prefer shorter games because they play so many. Without the interactivity of the board, not to mention the interactivity some of the expansions provide, my interest in TM goes way down. I've played Race quite a bit and the simultaneous action is not enough for me.

[@thedicetower]

Or maybe it's just because we like the game better? Realize that we all just talked about how much we loved Sleeping Gods (a 12 hour game).

[@DavidOdum]

That's fair. Put it down to personal preference then. It just intrigues me that the personal preference of so many reviewers leans toward Ares. I have a high opinion of many reviewers' opinions precisely because they play so many different games, and Tom probably plays more than most. I think that tends to make their tastes more sophisticated, for lack of a better term? I have wondered tho if that turns some other biases on. Maybe this is a good question for the podcast. It also makes me wonder: did everyone here but Tom really rate TM, one of the top games of the last 5? years, below an 8.5? I'mma have to go check now.

[@DavidOdum]

@@thedicetower So per my previous reply I checked, and Mike's rating of original TM on BGG is a 9, and he just rated Ares an 8.5 and said he would much rather play it than TM. Changing tastes I guess. Roy's TM rating on BGG is a 7, so no discrepancy there. Zee apparently never rated it.

[@marshwiggle8364]

"If you make my two favorite foods and put them together ill be happy" _ Tom Key Lime Spaghetti Pie

[@barrygregory8177]

I had a similar thought but it was roast potatoes and chocolate ice cream

[@EzFlyers10]

As someone who has played over 2,000 games of terraforming mars, it is WAAAAAAY different.

[@EzFlyers10]

@@paulhamrick3943 i truly hate ares lol. I literally took the time to desleeve it.

[@PestiferousJoe]

4 opinions in one review, yes give me more.

[@joeferreti9442]

All the best things from Terraforming Mars are left out of Ares Expedition. What's left in Ares Expedition is just cube pushing and calculating income.

[@FrostyCosmic]

and action selection... and engine building... and cardplay... and unique card abilities... and asymmetrical abilities...

[@SvanMagic]

I would say the opposite. Everything I like in TM is in Ares without the stuff I don't like. I think it's going to be split between the two versions for people.

[@stevenisaacson5720]

The original Terraforming Mars, esp. with Prelude, is a great game and far more strategic but because of the game length I can rarely get my game group to play it. This has the essence of the original and plays much quicker so it will get to the table more and is, therefore, "better" on that score alone. I agree with Tom, the lack of the dual layered player boards in the Target/retail version isn't a big deal as it was with the original, but the ridiculously small game board is garbage and needs to be upgraded as soon as possible. The KS folks will find that they sadly will be getting this same game board.

[@victorgonzalez2927]

Everyone comparing the mechanisms to Race for the Galaxy and PUERTO RICO is over here like “WTF?”

[@gregkleinfall1901]

This is much easier to teach than Race for the Galaxy. I love Race, but I am very reluctant to teach it. The iconography is too convoluted. Terraforming Mars iconography is more straight forward and it does a good job of including important explanation text right on the card.

[@jonjon2222]

I’m confused. How is it possible that the public rated it an average of 5.5 of BGG and here we’re talking about a seal of excellence? It’s such a big difference that I’m wondering if people rating it on BGG have actually played it? Are they just very protective of the original Terraforming Mars or of Race for the Galaxy? Everyone can have their own opinions, but this is suspicious…

[@hasakicb]

The BGG rating is a bunch of folks upset that the game showed up in Target before Kickstarter backers got their copy.

[@matthewpeterson3926]

There are a bunch of people putting down 1 until they get their copy

[@LegoAssassin098]

Some People are upset about the mass market version releasing before the game and so they are review bombing on BGG.

[@mrskwid1]

No most of them have not.

[@Madfoxinator]

I will say the dicetower has a lot of respect in the community. Rahdo mentioned that Tom never takes money for his reviews and said that he would take money. I don't always agree with them. But I think they have been historically trustworthy. Plus most people are upset about shipping costs and availability. I kickstarted this and am upset I paid 15 more dollars to get it later than if I waited for it.