The 4K Problem

[@m.dorado6966]

Some of us go further back than DVD when it comes to collecting movies. I'd rather have a BR to 4K problem than a VHS to DVD problem. I'm on my 4th format when it comes to some titles. You get used to it after awhile. Oh well, it's just money. LOL

[@brunomachado7279]

I regretted upgrading some titles. Not because it doesn't look nice, but the difference is not that important, in most cases. Blu ray is still strong. Now I prefer saving money for new films.

[@rabidfollower]

I passed on the Red Shoes 4K because it was based on the same 4k restoration that was used for the 2010 Red Shoes Blu-ray which I already own. I tend to buy 4k Blu-ray only when it has a brand new transfer -- which sometimes may or may not be better than the old one, but at least it will be different.

[@DeLorean4]

Full screen VHS releases are the best. They're the only ones that utilize the full screen.

[@hardcopyblus]

i like the fact that Criterion doesn't give you new artwork on 4k's. its more pure. if you want the uptick in resolution or whatever, cool. but they aren't making buyers tempted to rebuy based on something like artwork.

[@HighHouseDark_]

Going from blurays with and lcd to 4k with oled and hdr has been an amazing upgrade. Just upgrading to a 4k TV isn't enough. The oled and hdr are what really make the format stand out

[@hollyshippy7417]

We are an older couple and have about 1500 titles in our collection. We began with VHS, moved to Laser Discs, then DVD, Blu-ray and now 4K. We have not replaced all of our DVDs, although, the majority, well over three quarters, have been replaced with Blu-rays, which still remains the largest part of our collection. We have 230 4Ks and really enjoy all of them. The majority were upgrades. We really appreciate the remastering of older films, which we'd like to see more of, and the release of newer films on the 4K format. We spend a lot of time reading reviews of films, and watching the technical reviews on the internet, with comparison samples of images. Not all upgraded films are worth purchasing, so, we are choosy. We still go to films, with one caveat ... we are more likely to attend the movies that look great on the big screen. We enjoy smaller films, but the reviews really have to wow us, before we risk spending money on a film, that we can stream for a modest amount of money, before we actually purchase a physical copy. We haven't minded double dipping, because many of our Blu-ray titles go back several, if not many years. Again, reading and watching reviews plays a big part in our decision making. Our Criterion collection stands at over 300. We love physical media. Have many guests over for viewings and have an outdoor film projection system for summer viewings. Our feeling about Criterion upgrades is that the new 4K remaster is more important than the cover art. We like cover-art, but, because the case remains on a shelf, with so many other cases, the only time we actually look at the cover art is when we remove it from the shelf and watch the movie, and, even then, we tend to place the disc in the player as quickly as possible to watch the movie. For us ... it's all about the movie ... picture quality, sound quality and how good the movie is, regardless of genre.

[@Redroomantics]

This is the only reason I haven’t bought Criterion’s Blue Velvet yet, I just KNOW that’s coming out on 4K soon. One of my favourite films ever, but I’ll stick with my standard blu ray until the 4K comes.

[@ethanedwards7557]

The Rules Of the Game 4K is getting good reviews but they say it isn’t much of an upgrade because the bluray was already so good. They say most people won’t notice any difference.

[@David-uc6sg]

Le Cercle Rouge is the film that went OOP on Criterion and then later came back in 4k. Might be the one you were thinking of early in the discussion.

[@reyluna9332]

I started with VHS and then moved on to laserdisc, then to DVD. I skipped bluray and then got back into collecting 4k UHD. I have been collecting bluray now for movies that won't be getting 4k UHDs. I look to see if the scan comes from a 2k or 4k master. If it's 4k, then I wait for the 4k UHD. Collecting and watching movies is a fun pastime.

[@ConnerNielsen6]

Good strategy

[@URBONED]

I usually use some intuition to decide on the likelihood of a film getting a 4K, and whether I want to wait. If a 4K comes out for a film I own, I won't upgrade it unless there's a night and day improvement in picture - I think the only few I have are Vertigo, Psycho and Heavy Metal - the first two being all time favourites, but the latter looking leagues better than the bluray I own. I use caps-a-holic and DVDbeaver to see their comparisons before committing to something. I get why Criterion keeps their art and packaging the same, essentially to keep their catalogue consistent from DVD to 4K, everyone gets the same thing and nobody is missing out (except those still stuck on DVD since the killed them off). However it feels really lazy to repackage an old release with just a new disc, especially when Criterion don't atleast put the new 4K transfer onto the bluray. Arrow has done the same quite a few times. If they're releasing a 4K upgrade of an old release, they should add new features, change the packaging etc. It feels like a purposeful and cheap tactic to take advantage of collectors and make extra money with minimal extra work.

[@PogieJoe]

So many of the recent Criterions were scanned in 4K for the Blu-rays, so imagine it's not terribly expensive to take the same packaging and features but offer a hi-res upgrade!

[@letstalkcriterion]

It's even worse in the UK they seem to be telegraphing 4k Criterion choices for upgrade they brought out Wings of Desire on Curzon as well Breathless, Le Cercle Rouge and The three colours 4k set you mentioned which is also Curzon I hadn't got Red Shoes so that's okay, s im not buying catalogue Criterion blurays and just waiting to see what they announce we've also got The Trial 4k already here in the UK

[@yournamehere6002]

There was a huge disparity between VHS and DVD, and a fairly significant difference between DVD and bluray. But the uptick in quality from bluray to 4K is almost imperceptible at times, and darker.

[@JohnHenrysaysHi]

Conner! Always, happy to hear your discussions. I don't have any 4k devices but appreciate your insight as always!

[@vincentrodriquez8174]

David Lynch's Mulholland Drive was one of first 4K from Criterion in those first releases. Yall forgot Lynch!

[@ConnerNielsen6]

Yes, that is the first 4K release Criterion put out, but it was a catalogue title. I was trying to think of the new additions debuting in the collection with the 4K format

[@gusamoretti8520]

I got burned by Mildred Pierce lol I bought it last Flash sale. I upgraded to 4K because I love that movie and the 4K was not that big upgrade like the Red Shoes 4K. But oh well

[@StephenMurphy96]

I don't have anything to add to the Criterion side of the conversation. However when it comes to 4K's in a general sense I have been very reluctant to invest in a new format. It's been hard enough building a collection on regular blu ray. And I've learned the hard way that upgrading has it's disadvantages. I jumped on board with the blu ray format in 2011. And I sold some of the movies I had on dvd when I upgraded. But then I learned afterward that in some cases that bonus features that I had on my dvds didn't always carry over. That was a big mistake not properly doing the research. So some day I'm going to have to track down some of those movies again in the earlier format just for the special features. I do own a few 4Ks but the only reason I do is because I wanted a particular movie and 4K releases that also included the standard blu ray disc was the only option available to me. I was really just getting them so I could have the regular blu ray. I haven't had any major reason to switch it up. And I probably won't. Unless somewhere down the line 4K has enough going for it to justify the investment. Sometimes there's limited releases that I miss out on which have additional exclusive bonus content. The studio canal release of Flash Gordon comes to mind. But overall I'm fine sticking to regular blu ray. At least for the time being.

[@videostash413]

blu rays still look amazing to me

[@henrybiedenkapp675]

The problem has been a lifelong battle. First it was with music: vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, CD and now turn around back to vinyl again. So, we have the similar problem with cinema: Laser Disc, VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray and now 4K. I find that the special packaging and special features or the limited-edition aspect to be a big plus, almost as important as the movie itself. It took a long time for Criterion to enter the Blue Ray market, which they started releasing in December 2008, so we were kept waiting for 2 1/2 years before finally entering the market. Even longer for 4K, we were kept waiting for 5 1/2 years before Criterion finally entering the market in November 2021, due to dueling competition. I believe you both have the right approach in buying what you love, buying the best available edition and enjoy the cinema journey and collecting that the fun aspect of it.

[@johnnycooker5298]

How long do you think it'll be till Criterion is all on 4k? It took 15+ years with bluray and my B&N still stocks some dvds still...?

[@kevinhouse4376]

DJ, I really liked one of your latter points about preferring a new release of a film not yet on Criterion as opposed to a 4K release of a well-known title already available in other formats. That's how I feel as well. Also, the bonus features are the main reason why I occasionally double dip. Speaking of B&N, the one I always frequent in Fort Wayne (there are two in town) has reduced its Criterion section as well as physical media in general. Very sad, but understandable in this age of streaming. Finally, Conner, you would love the Ranown westerns. I have an earlier Sony DVD set of those five Budd Boetticher films, and they're quite good.

[@MyFireVideos]

My public library had purchased for their catalog every 4K disc I have submitted a request for.

[@AirheadPranks]

And I'm sitting here with DVD's. I mostly watch streaming but i keep a collection of my favorite movies JIC its a rainy day and the powers out, pull out the portable DVD player.

[@staceytoon8364]

I was going to upgrade Criterion's Night of the Living Dead BUT it did not include color grading for the black definition and was just in a clear case whereas the Blu-ray edition was in a slick box with great art. Also NO additional features. Still bought ten titles though!

[@TucoRope2Tight]

If the bluray was already based on a 4K scan, the upgrade is rarely worth it, especially if it's not HDR10 or even Dolby Vision (which your player also needs to support...). There are some fantastic transfers in Blu-Ray quality and average 4K transfers that didn't really deserve the format because the original material isn't that high quality/sharp. I hate the exact same packaging, I think there should be a recognizable element identifying 4K released to avoid mistakes and scammers online.

[@SanAndreasToday]

Great channel! It’s weird to me in some ways lol, a lot of the 4K releases were scanned in 4K and put on Blu which to me I don’t see a big enough difference As of right now I don’t wait for 4K. But only time can tell haha. I have so much love for Blu Ray, especially the pre owned deals I find for boutiques on eBay ❤

[@jnagarya519]

"The Red Shoes" is spectacular visually, but otherwise it is an overblown soap opera.

[@nicholassheffo5723]

THELMA AND LOUISE 4K is an MGM/UA Criterion just did and MVD just did RAIN MAN 4K, so Kino does not have all of them and in some cases, I can see why Criterion rejected the 4K versions, like MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, which is just a shade too dark for some weird reason. THE SEVENTH SEAL 4K is really good. The THREE COLORS 4K and BRANDED TO KILL 4K Criterions are very problematic, so you might want to wait on those. Finally, if you have the Criterion WALKABOUT, an older Blu-ray edition, mine had laser rot so you should check yours if you have it. Glad they are doing that 4K. I think any 4K upgrade done well is highly welcome.

[@Binbuster]

I was tempted to buy 12 Angry Men on Criterion last November. However I saw the Kino one was coming out on 4k with the made for TV version of the film too. I’m like..two versions together instead of one. I’ll buy it!

[@Historybuffrunner]

I’ve also been frustrated with upgrading 4ks from any label/studio. With Criterion, I’ve held off purchasing 4ks of blu rays (Criterion) that I already have. Exception, (because there usually is) Night of the Living Dead I double dipped because I actually prefer the jewel case packaging over digipak blu ray. Some packaging are different between 4k and blu ray. e.g., Lost Highway & Thelma & Louise. Jewel blu ray digipak 4k. I wish they’d offer both styles of packaging. I digress Now, I purchase 4ks I don’t have from Criterion and only purchase 2k or “high definition” restorations because I believe these titles will never (or not in near future) be upgraded to 4k. I now avoid 4k transfers on blu ray because they would be the prime candidates for 4k. That’s my thoughts. Great video.

[@brantar5148]

I just upgraded to a 4k setup last November and my reasons for not picking up more 4k titles besides price is some of the color grading done on them and my 4k player is terrible. I bought the Sony player and it freezes sometimes and when it does the remote doesn't work or the buttons on the player. I should have just bought the Panasonic one. Overall I'm happy with the Blu-ray format and with newer titles I don't really see a difference between the Blu-ray and 4k, but with a older film the 4k may look better.

[@garyrobinson8665]

If the blu Ray is good enough I'm unlikely to upgrade to 4k. I do double dip sometimes. I will buy the 4k if I don't own the blu Ray. I own in the mood for love and virgin Suicides in criterion blu ray I love those movies but I'm not going to buy the 4k. I very happy with the blu Ray transfers i don't need the 4k. I havent double dipped any criterions.

[@shitpostheavy]

4ks been a meme format

[@zakwan10]

Curzon is the company that released the latest 3 Colours Trilogy on 4k, but I'm not sure if the extras are region locked blu rays?

[@vvilliamlevvis1231]

A new Tim Lucas commentary track will absoluuuutely make me double dip! Hate that Kino had to lease out the distro license of Jean Rollin Films but excited to see what Powerhouse can do. Redemption put in a lot of work to make sure we have those films today.

[@warpathh]

Criterion is going to continue to dwindel as they lose rights to films that make them a staple of the modern home cinema landscape.

[@michaelsmith1262]

Longish post to follow regarding the Kieslowski 4k set. I am a huge fan of these movies and the director, so I got the Curzon set for the bonus features and the packaging. Already had the Criterion BD set. I wanted to tell you my experience with the 4K transfers though. I much prefer the blu-ray versions. First, there is the color issue. Not a huge deal for me, but I prefer the original versions on that issue. But the big thing for me was the brightness issue. On my system, which is not high end by any means, the 4Ks are way too dark. Sounds like you have a pretty nice system, so maybe it won't be the case for you though. On a side note, didn't I hear you say before that you have a DVD set of these films too? If so, are they the ones with the commentaries from Annette Insdorf? If not, you should get them. BTW, the issues I had with the Colors 4Ks also applies to the Double Life of Veronique. Same issues, but I got it because I am a sucker collector, especially with Kieslowski. He's my favorite director.

[@donsimpsonshead8809]

Why is this a problem? Just expect that most Criterion releases will get a 4K upgrade. Flip the disc over and if it says “4K restoration” just put it back. You can also sell the blu-rays, or do what I do, donate them to your local library. As to the 4K re-release taking a slot, I remember the years where there were barely any releases at all. They’ve doubled and tripled the releases to me. Twenty first century issues.

[@Chrisratata]

The issue is people's budget. Not everyone can afford to double dip, and in regards to just waiting, even with some bluray titles having 4K DIs it's no telling how many months or years later the 4K release will finally come.

[@donsimpsonshead8809]

@@Chrisratata I use the library regularly. My local system carries pretty much every Criterion and Arrow release. They've also started adding 4K's to which I've donated four, that others can enjoy. The movies I purchase are ones I love, or from boutique labels that are hard to find. As for waiting, I'm patience as hell. If a release never comes out, then there are plenty of other releases available.

[@redacted428]

I'd bet money you can't even genuinely tell the difference between 4k and 1080p

[@SoCal_Cinephile]

This is a great, individualized and never ending topic, "to upgrade or not??" The answer is never wrong, and as you mentioned, it really depends on various factors which really only matter to the individual. I will say this in regards to deciding to upgrade blu-rays at this point in time, "do so at your own risk!". We are at the point in time where no title is off-limits, and the current rights holders may not be the ones releasing the 4K, see Criterion vs. Kino. I have pretty much stopped buying blu-rays for the most part. I bought one too many blu-rays which were announced to be coming out in 4K too soon after making the purchase. The quickest being the Wild Things 4K being announced within an hour of me buying the blu-ray in a Target B2G1 sale. If I do decide to pick up a blu-ray I only buy used at the cheapest price possible. It makes me feel better in the event something gets announced for 4K, but for the most part I've stopped buying blu-ray. This exact thing happened to me when blu-ray was coming on strong, and at that point I just stopped buying DVDs. The mistake I made back then was selling off some titles for the "eventual" blu-ray which never materialized. I don't get rid of a title until I have the replacement in hand or I am 100% positive it's coming.