The 6 Speed Brompton P Line | First Week Impressions

[@petekadenz2466]

The P-line is an upgraded Superlight. It has a clear place in the Brompton line up, even if you can’t see it. The P-line has a four speed and (more recently) a 12 speed option. It does not have 6 gear option (unlike the Superlight that had 6 gears) but of course its possible to add gears after market.

[@grahamricketts-bq1ft]

I think you hit the nail on the head when saying this version probably better suits a roadie buying their first Brompton, I bought a c-line explore on cycle to work, in theory for my wife (!), but I have started using it for my 8 mile commute (not on surburban roads, sort of country type roads) and am now favouring it over my road bikes, but would like it to be lighter with more even gear spacing. A new year will start soon for cycle to work...........!

[@TheBromptonGuy]

you know I looked at cycle to work but ended up going with the 0% interest at the time. My whole beef was with that you don't own the bike after the year and you would need to pay to own it or wait around 4 years for the government to deem it a tax write off.

[@grahamricketts-bq1ft]

Yeah, I was surprised when faced with a bill for about £200 (I think) at the end of the first year to basically rent it for another 3 years after which I own it, but was still cheaper for me than just buying it to start with. I initially didn't like the bike, found it twitchy, but soon got used to it and now love it ! @@TheBromptonGuy

[@drewsmith7726]

I get what you’re saying about the shifter on the left hand side. I have an M6L and after riding it for more than a year, I still feel like the shifters should be swapped so the internal hub 3 speed would be on the left and the 2 speed on the right.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Maybe just a British way of thinking or something 🤷‍♂️. Would love to ask the big boss about it if I ever get the chance to meet him.

[@angeldelromero]

3:09 Why is P line less robust than C line?

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Thanks for the question. When I say less robust I'm referring to the gearing system. The 3 speed IGH is very reliable and requires little to no service and will run smooth for years, the P line derailleur on the other hand requires consistent maintenance for gears to run smoothly. I have to re adjust my gears at least once to two a month to ensure perfect shifting, certainly don't hold up well to wet and dirty roads like the IGH

[@angeldelromero]

Gracias por tu respuesta. Bueno, entonces no hay problema, no es que sea menos robusto si no qie necesita algún ajuste periódico con mayor frecuencia. De todas formas, a medida que la funda del cable se va contrayendo con el uso, esos ajustes son menos frecuentes.@@TheBromptonGuy

[@rdx913]

One that wasn’t mentioned that differentiates this bike from a C line is external derailleurs vs internal, the latter of which causes more drag. When I’ve done bike efficiency calculations, I don’t think stiffness (up to a point) or weight really matter. Weight only sometimes matters if it’s a preposterous weight difference and you’re climbing a lot; otherwise, almost all the efficiency losses are aerodynamics, drivetrain and rolling resistance. Two questions: 1. I’m curious if you were to try to ride at constant power on the P line multiple times, the only difference being the handlebar position being all the way up vs race day position (forward and lower): would there be a statistically significant difference in speed at constant power? Do you have a power meter? 2. I don’t think stiffness matters to efficiency but I do think a stiffer bike feels nice. Here, I’m a bit confused why a P line would be stiffer than a C line, as the titanium back triangle and fork are definitely less rigid. Any ideas?

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Thanks for the input! I would certainly agree that once at speed weight doesn't matter at all but the lighter object should always accelerate faster to cruising speed. So for a commute where it's maybe start, stop, mild hills then it all must add up I suppose. The stiffness to me only matters during the climbing sections correct but I do like a good brompton climb every now and then. Point 1 I do have power meters (Garmin Rally Pedals) I would say the difference would maybe be minimal but certainly an experiment I should be able to setup when I get the time. I just personally prefer a race position over the up right, however for my commute the upright works lovely. Point 2. I would say stiffness does translate to efficiency for longer and steeper climbs. The reason for the P line being stiffer is the suspension block! Very stiff/firm default block on the P line compared to the C line standard block, that being said you can fit a firm block to the C line and becomes way stiffer. From experience I can confirm that fitting a stiffer block improved my times over climbs because you loose less power transfer through the stiffer block.

[@rdx913]

The reason why I ask about race position is that the single biggest thing I’ve ever done to make my Brompton faster is convert to drop bars. The second is probably better tires (conti contact urbans though I hear the scale one are even faster albeit far more puncture prone).

[@TheBromptonGuy]

@@rdx913 I have considered doing this but personally thought it was a little to much for the gains. However isn’t out of the question.

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@TheBromptonGuy Years ago I saw a wooden block for a Brompton, A.E. Now I have found a Joseph Kuosac hard block, as yours, but I have found the wooden ones again. Nicely made with two rings for decoration. Finn. Denmark

[@mikstratok]

The T line and the P line feel very similar when riding, but overall I'm quite happy I got the T line, I just like the aesthethic more and the self aligning clamps are a very nice thing to have. The irony is that I wasn't even planning to buy the T line... I had money saved up for a ring and the girl broke up with me, such is life :D I did commit blasphemy and added some 500grams from changing the front wheel to one with a SON dynamo + front/back lights with a built-in standing light. There's aftermarket 7 speed derallierurs fro the P line/Tline, with 280% range instead of the fairly limited 160ish% the T/P line have, but I haven't yet pulled the trigger on those since it's pretty flat around here. I've got a love/hate relationship with the schwalbe one tires tho... awesome low rolling resistance, but the puncture so easily, I've gotten 4 punctures in 6 months...

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Thanks for the input. He loss is just your gain my friend! Thanks for sharing about the Schwalbe One Tires, been thinking to try them for a while now but stuck with my Kojak tires which I've still not had a puncture on to date but maybe we just cycle on very different roads 🤪. I did recently read about this 7 speed derail but personally I think I would just lower the size of the front ring depending what events I wanted to do it.

[@bazzaroberts8748]

Converted my A line to a p line with front rear titanium fork+triangle. Bought lite pro crank bot bracket Ti and stem seat post titanium. Most bolts Ti brakes Ti bolts. Got 48 chain ring rear 22t just about fits did try 23t but touches derailleur. Probably spent around £2500 altogether but liked the experience of fitting it together. Oh and converted to tubeless with Kojak tyres. Weight..........9.2kg.

[@rdx913]

How did you concert to tubeless?

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Sounds like an amazing project! taken the entry line bike and making it to P line weight. Suppose that's always the way with regards to cost, it's never cheap but hella fun doing it. Thanks for supporting my friend.

[@Anakena3]

I was in a verge to do the same with my cline but as you said the price tag for upgrading to titanium was a bit steep. I found a secondhand line around €1900. Any option is great I think just very happy with these bikes.

[@woodybeck8077]

I got a p line, because I couldn’t afford a t line, but was too much a snob for a c line.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

lmao brilliant comment. Must be part of the 5% then my friend 😆. Hope you're enjoying the P line my friend.

[@woodybeck8077]

Keep up the fine work!

[@noeliepollie1973]

Brilliant 😂

[@Anakena3]

😂

[@gigoy]

Would it be better to grab this P line or get a 2nd hand 2 speed and upgrade it to your "M Line" specs?

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Great question and can only be correct for the users needs I suppose. God I hate to say it but the P line really works for what I do with my Brompton but it’s definitely not as fun as the M line nor can it do as much.

[@gigoy]

​@@TheBromptonGuyThat's interesting. What use cases would make you decide to choose the P over the M?

[@TheBromptonGuy]

@@gigoy long distance road races 🤪

[@gordonmculloch4904]

Did you upgrade the four gear to six gears? 👍 Ps did you change the chain ring? Cheers.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

No I didn’t but will be changing the front chainring for an event in June. I was more making the point that with the weight reduction the 4 speed feels better ranged than the 6 speed

[@KavanOBrien]

Did it come with the lighter wheels like the ones on the T- line as the original P -line did at the launch or did it come with the C-line wheels, as mentioned previously Brompton did say they will go back to having the lighter wheels on it .

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Nah unfortunately just came with the standard c line rims mate, however they do feel really really light. Yeah I’m sure why they changed it but always just assumed a product quality thing 🤷‍♂️

[@KavanOBrien]

@@TheBromptonGuy they said they’re going back to them , it was just a shortage issue, if or when you decide to try out the mini titanium P handle bars , personally with your adventures on the bike with races and challenges I think those handle bars will be ideal and possibly be the one item that would surprise you the most .

[@TheBromptonGuy]

@@KavanOBrien they are on my video idea list. Maybe when finances recover after Christmas. Also you’ll wanna see the video coming this Wednesday. A lot of good info about belt drives coming up friend.

[@KavanOBrien]

@@TheBromptonGuy oh wow , thanks look forward to that one , you are very good in front of the camera and your delivery with information is second to none.

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

As I have just seen the details for a "7 speed chain shifter" intended for all Bromptons (with a holder/converter, holding the changer on its back-frame). It will be both lighter (no heavy, also when Functioning, S.A. gear in the wheel!)! I do think about - wasting my wheel and buying a new and lighter: 7 speed chain gear wheel intended for it. My just for now 8,5 kilo bike, with the - Toolset and Mudguards in the frame (I intend to change the "brackets" on the mudguards for much lighter Carbon and Aluminum ones, when the "Day of Summer" comes to Denmark!), I expect will come - below an original T-line by that! I still haven't changed my handlebar to carbon also, till now, and the last parts for my "titanium brake set", for the original type brakes (It will mostly look fully original still!!) 😁! And I think about a Titanium Stem Post, Flame painted!! Finn. Denmark

[@fender1000100]

You dont need countless gears. What you need is a wide enough gear range. My Tern verge P10 has 10 speeds. And there isnt a hill I havent been able to ride up. And thats because it goes from 26 to 96 gear inches over those 10 speeds. 11--40.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Do you tour on it? And yeah a 10speed with that ratio is very competent

[@fender1000100]

I don't tour but I have ridden across London (18 miles) dozens of times to visit family. And encountered some leg trembling inclines in my travels. And I've never had to dismount. It's a fabulous bike for the money..

[@barefootbikemaintenance1562]

That sniff at 11:20 is gross 😮

[@TheBromptonGuy]

lol I didn’t even notice! However I was recording in freezing conditions. However will attempt to remove these in future episodes. You have me thinking cause I’ve recently recorded an episode about cycling in winter and that was in -5 conditions which I think now have lead on to this cold I’ve picked up 🤣. But definitely sniff a lot in that one. Thanks for watching

[@tonylo6013]

@@TheBromptonGuy leave it in, natural!! Thanks for the video, learned alot about brompton bikes just from this video. Didn't know there were races on these bikes. Another level!!!

[@MartininitraM]

I built a C-line with a 47T front-ring and 5 speed (11-14-18-21-24) casette. Total build weight 10,3 kg but if I change saddel, tires and grips I'll reach 9,7 kg. Very smooth and speedy shifting. The only drawback is the lack of the heaviest gear. With a 31-68 gear inch it is very close to a 6-speed C-line (-12%) 29-88 gear inch.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Thanks for sharing my friend, sounds like a great version of a C line. I weighed my P line a couple days ago and weighed just over 10kg so great weight. The way I see my bromptons is I just changed the front chainring and chain when needed for specific events. For instance my normal has its high gearing fitted but for big hilly sportives I’ll drop to like a 44t or 42t Pretty hard to have an all around Brompton.

[@MrP1L0T]

6 gears? I count 4

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Yeah the bike is a 4 speed however my point was that the bikes weight reduction and effort ratio makes it feel more efficient than the 6 speed C line.

[@MrP1L0T]

@@TheBromptonGuy I have 3 Brommies, and my favourite would have to be the previous model, Superlight S6LX. I travel quite a bit with it and ride on average 50-100km per ride. One recent trip was to Quito in the Andes. The 6 speed, although a Frankenstein of a gear system (3 internal with a 2 cassette) makes it much easier to grind up the steep hills, where as my 3 speed Brommie I would be pushing it up. I did test ride a new 4 speed cassette, albeit around the block on flat terrain, and it doesn’t have the same range. I guess you buy what suits your needs. 😊

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@MrP1L0T I got my finished 2019 SuperlightM6LXBrompton (Flame Painted) in the Danish Shop - no choice, except some/a number of different bikes to chose from (Another Dealer told me that Brompton hardly cared to answer if they asked about something! Maybe not the best "Sales Strategy" to follow?). And with a 600 mm seat post as Standard in Scandinavia, for our Hight/Sins. Not much is left of the original, which is now 8,75kg, with my mudguards, and I expect to reach 8,5 kilo, and that may be what I'm able to reach? Rather close to an original T-line, but with more gears and for less money, even with a lot of extra titanium and carbon. I have looked at a titanium Stem Post, but I think it is too expensive for a little sawed weight. Finn. Denmark

[@macanic5161]

⁠@@TheBromptonGuy In the Swiss topography, a 4-speed P-line would definitely not feel more efficient than a 6-speed C-line! You would suffer greatly. 4-speed is made for the flat, not for the hills, unless you are Eddy Merckx or willing to sacrifice your knee caps.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Ohh did I forget to say… Eddy is my dad 😂

[@fender1000100]

The weight of a bike is an overrated issue to an extent. Obviously a 16lb carbon road bike is going to be alot easier to ride and faster. Than a 29lb foldiing commuter bike. But if you are talking about a bike weighing 22lbs compared to a bike weighing say 26lbs. There is alot of criteria to consider. For example I have two tern verges. TERN VERGE X18=22.8LBS TERN VERGE P10=25.7LBS So the X18 is 3lbs lighter than the P10. But its no faster. Because the wheel base on the P10 is bigger than that of the X18. 406MM Wheels VS the P10s 451MM wheels. So this negates the weight difference. Both bikes can achieve about 24mph top speed on the flat. Both perform equally well on hills. BUT the P10 will hold higher speeds easier and for longer than the X18. Because of the larger wheels.. The same way a road bike weighing the same as the P10 would out perform it with 27--28 inch wheels. Bromptons are HARD WORK on steeps hills. Their gearing isnt designed for taking them on. So they have to be light sub 22lbs. Like the Pline/ Tline to overcome this. And even then ive seen brompton riders dismount on hills. Im floating up on my TERN VERGES. Without any huffing and puffing. You really need that sub 30 gear inches on steep hills. Especially if your bike weighs more than 22lbs or 10KG.

[@GuitaristOfEvil]

Bro, I feel quite clickbaited. You may got an interesting point but that's not what i clicked for. Don't mess with your audience just for views. You have some nice content but I am more hesitant to subscribe now.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Sorry for the deception but when making the video and cycling the bike my overwhelming thought was how even though it’s a 4 speed I felt like it has a better range than a 6speed due to the weight reduction so that’s the title I went with. Thanks for the feedback.